6: "Noah Found Grace in the Eyes of the Lord" (Genesis 6–11; Moses 8)

Tammy 0:00

Okay, everybody. Join in if you know this song; I have asked my guest Amy to sing this for us because it's a girls camp song. And she is a girls camp aficionado. We did girls camp together several years ago and she led us all in this song and so of course, I have to have her sing it. You ready, Ame? Okay, hit it.

Amy 0:17

(sings) The Lord said to Noah, You're gonna build an arky-arky. Lord said to Noah, You're gonna build an arky-arky. Made it out of gopher barky, barky. Children of the Lord. children of the Lord. So, rise and shine, give God your glory-glory. Rise & shine, and give God your glory-glory. Rise and shine and give God your glory-glory! Children of the Lord. children of the Lord. A-amen.

Tammy 0:52

Okay. Now listen, I don't know if any of you listening know that song or not. It's a classic girls camp song. But how excited are we to study Genesis 6-11 and Moses 8. Hint: This song is what we're talking about today. And that was lovely Amy Whitmore singing for us.

Amy 1:11

Thank you so much.

Tammy 1:12

You're so good at that. This episode's gonna be so good. Welcome to Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we're gonna dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall.

Okay, if you're new to our study group, I just wanna make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link that's in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study for the week, just like my friend Shaundell Cooper Smith, who, I love this so much: she described this podcast as "a warm blanket that surrounds me and keeps me safe". I hope she still feels safe after that song. Just kidding, Shaundell. We love you, Amy.

Okay, so you've probably heard them - some voices in the background. And this is my favorite thing about our study group is that each week we're joined by two of my friends. And so it's always a little bit different and today we have two originals. We have not had them, I mean, they were here for Book of Mormon. Amy's been a couple of times, but now we have these two back together who I adore. Amy Hutchins Whitmore and Bonnie El Halta. Hi. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Ame is in Colorado. But Bonnie, where you comin to us from?

Bonnie 2:23

Live from Kuwait.

Tammy 2:25

WHAT? I mean, true stories. Seriously true story. She's in a Warzone, people.

Bonnie 2:31

Yeah, I'm here in Kuwait. So it's not too bad a war area, but I am on a military base.

What are you doing out there? Tell us real quick.

I'm working with the USO - United Service Organizations. I'm basically the Relief Society President and Young Women's president, activities director, and single adult rep for the military.

Amy 2:51

I can't think of anyone better.

Tammy 2:53

Honestly.

Amy 2:54

Mary Poppins right there.

Tammy 2:56

You're a perfect fit.

Amy 2:57

All have to need, I have a big magic bag. (laughter) I feel happy and at home.

Tammy 3:02

Oh my gosh. And her stories are amazing. And we get to hear some today. So I'm super duper excited. I love these women so much. We've known each other for years. Amy and Bonnie have known each other for a very long time. So a lot, how many years? 30?

Amy 3:17

100 years,

Bonnie 3:19

Oh my golly, '90, How long? After your mission.

Amy 3:23

'97. It was a fine year.

Bonnie 3:25

I mean, if anyone's enjoyed themselves a nice Jamba Juice? You're looking at the two women who helped start Jamba basically, on-the-ground work. How exciting is that!

Amy 3:33

Bonnie put the 'jam' in Jamba Juice.

Tammy 3:37

I think Amy helped, too; give me a break, Ame.

Bonnie 3:38

Oh, yeah, we did.

Amy 3:39

I put the 'a'. Uhhh. Good times.

Tammy 3:47

Okay, we're gonna have so much fun on today's episode, and I am super-duper excited. So if you guys want to know more about my guests, or see their pictures, go find them in our show notes, which are found at LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. So all we're gonna say is, let's dive in and discuss these chapters. So grab your scripture journal, your scriptures, your scripture markers, all those fun things, and let's dig in. Here we go.

Okay, let's just go straight to Genesis chapter 5. We have this really great genealogy of people and we've marked this before, but we want to go to verse 32. Because after we talk about Adam, Seth, Enos, then we also have Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah. Lamech in verse 25, well, Lamech has a son and we're going to learn about him. He is found in verse 32, Bonnie read verse 32.

Bonnie 4:16

5:32 "And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham and Japheth."

Tammy 4:38

Alright, we are going to study who today?

Bonnie 4:54

Noah.

So let's find out some cool things about Noah. We are going to be in Genesis chapter 6, as well as Moses chapter 8. First of all, in Genesis, chapter 5, verse 29, I really like the reason why he's named Noah. Ame, will you read verse 29 for us?

Amy 4:56

5:29 "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same Shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed."

Tammy 5:07

So his parents named him Noah, in the hopes that he would bring them rest, possibly rest from their toils and struggles; or it could be a foreshadowing of the rest that he's going to bring the world - like a rest from sin. Or we want rest because it has been so hard for us up until this point, which I think is ironic that Noah's name is rest. Right?

Amy 5:30

They did a lot of work.

Tammy 5:31

Wow. I mean, so much work. What about Noah is restful in his life story when you think about it?

Amy 5:37

Not much. Not much, and for hundreds of years, and he stays faithful to the Lord the whole time. That's a long time, a lot of work.

These 500 actual years, are we talking like dog years? Like, I don't want to see a 500 year-old person, I'm just sayin'.

Tammy 5:56

Amy, that is such a great question. I'm so glad you asked that question. Yes, Noah did live for 500 years. In fact, the timing of man's life will not change 'til after the days of Noah because the Lord realized, you know what? They weren't using the 900 years I gave them to get it together.

Amy 6:12

I don't need 900; somehow we do need it, I just don't want it.

Tammy 6:16

Thank you.

Amy 6:16

Cuz I can hardly see now. And I'm

Tammy 6:18

And the Lord's like, let's give them some less time. Let's see if they can figure it out in 80 years. When is it? Exactly.

Bonnie 6:22

Fix the curve, that learning curve, speed us up here.

Tammy 6:28

Yah, yah, quicker. Well, Bonnie, I love that you said that Noah stayed righteous, because there's a couple of cool verses we want to read about him. That was so great you mentioned that. Let's go to Genesis chapter 6. And we're going to look at verses 8 and 9. And so Ame, will you read verses 8 and 9 for us.

Amy 6:46

6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

9: "These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."

Tammy 6:58

And we know what perfect means. I mean, highlight that word. We've studied the word perfect before. And in Hebrew it's TAMIM, and it just means complete or whole or having integrity. It does not mean without sin. I think Noah could be that; I think any of us could be that level of perfect, having integrity.

Bonnie 7:19

And he tried. And in everything he did, he just tried.

Absolutely, totally tried. And then we have his family. Now Bonnie, you read that verse that told us his son's names: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. But I thought this was interesting. Go to verses 13 and 14 in Moses, chapter 8. Now we're going to switch over to Moses 8. And we're going to look at verses 13 and 14, because this kind of changed everything for me in the story of Noah's Ark. Moses, chapter 8, verses 13 and 14. And Bonnie, when you get there will you read that for us. And as Bonnie reads this, what I want us to look for is: what else do these verses tell us about his posterity, before the Flood?

Okay, so in Moses 8, verses 13 and 14,

Mos 8:13 "And Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed, and they were called the sons of God.

8:14 "And when these men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, the sons of men saw that those daughters were fair, and they took them wives, even as they chose."

Thank you. Now it mentions this also in Genesis, it talks about these extra sons and these daughters. What is it telling us about his posterity? Does it go beyond the three boys?

Oh, yes. And the sons and daughters, right?

Amy 8:32

So think about that for a moment, then. When this ark is being made, who's Noah really leaving behind?

Bonnie 8:41

Family

Tammy 8:42

A lot of family. I mean, my whole life I always just thought it was Shem, Ham ,and Japheth ,and their wives. I thought that was it, that's the only posterity that Noah had. And that changed my frame of reference thinking, Wait a minute, he had grandchildren that he probably loved that were not a part of this whole Noah experience?

Amy 9:02

Well, in our time, right now, if your family had to get up and go, who would listen? Who's gonna get into the car and go? Who's gonna get into the boat? If you're living for 900 years, you've got a few kids and a few grandkids. So how many were righteous? How many stayed righteous? I know that the world was really wicked all around them. So if you have a huge posterity, what are the percentage that even would get on the boat with you? It'd be, it'd be heartbreaking.

Tammy 9:30

I love how you just put that into our own personal lives - in our own families, who would get on the boat? That is a good way to think of it.

In that scripture that Bonnie just read in Moses 8, it also corresponds to Genesis chapter 6, verse 2, and I just want us to mark a couple things. It says that the sons of God, so highlight 'sons of God'. When we read that it means covenant keeping, and the covenant keeping sons of God saw the daughters of men, which means non-covenant keepers. That's what we're talking about. Non-covenant keepers, that they were fair and they took them wives of all which they chose. So in Old Testament time, we're talking about someone marrying outside of the covenant. This is a big deal in the Old Testament, because you'll hear time and time again where they want their family member to marry within the kinship or the covenant relationship.

And then look at verse 4 (18). And there were giants on the earth in those days. Now highlight the word 'giants', because we've talked about this before. It could literally be physically gigantic people, or in Hebrew, that word is actually NEPHILIM. And the word Nephilim comes from the Hebrew root word NAPHAL, which means fallen, or to fall down. So this 'giants' could be fallen ones, meaning fallen away from the church, apostatized. It's setting us up to understand what the world looks like at this time, that Noah receives this revelation to build an ark.

And so we're going to talk about that in the next segment. But before we talk about what the world was like, I want us to kind of come back full circle to know his name, then, knowing that Noah had all this posterity, knowing that he was a man of integrity, and that he will found grace in the sight of the Lord. His name means res;, help me connect that name to what's going on at this time.

Bonnie 11:17

He'll get his rest, right, like he's gonna rest from the world by getting in that boat and going. Think about if you're prophesying, and you're trying to tell everyone and warn everyone and everyone's not listening to you. What a better way to find rest, but to follow the Lord, hop in the boat, say amen, and shove off the dock. That's the only way you're going to get your rest. You can't fix it. Everyone has their agency. You can't, you can't fix that. But you can do your best. Do what the Lord commands you, hop in the boat, and shove off.

Great connection, Bonnie, that was great. Ame, I have a question for you: As a mom with children, what gives you rest with your family?

Amy 11:58

Put 'em away.(laughter) reverse.

Tammy 12:07

Is there anything specifically about, with having children that brings you rest or when you think about your kids?

Amy 12:13

The four of them were all here for Christmas and they were just laughing together about just silly, funny things. And it made me so happy. I'm like, oh, I have four children happy at the same time. That kind of felt like rest.

Tammy 12:31

Yeah! It's a great description of rest. For me, I had all the kids home, too for Christmas. And my favorite thing is at night when everyone goes to bed and all the doors are locked. And everyone is home and safe under my roof. Like that gives me rest. Like I think, okay, everyone's good. I don't have to worry about a single soul right now. Physically, I don't have to worry. Spiritually, maybe; but physically, we're all good. And that is truly rest. And then I think of my own parents, you know, and our own parents and what brings them rest when it comes to their children. Do you think their answers are different?

Bonnie 13:06

My dad once told me that it was much easier when we were living under his roof because we'd come home at night. And as we got older, and he didn't know where we were that he didn't find that rest; he wanted to know and didn't have that sense of security. So I don't know if as we get you know, older and we have that chance to use the agency and do what we need to do. I don't know that rest comes as easy because you can't control all your outside pieces.

Tammy 13:36

Awesome, awesome connections. Okay, so in the next segment, then let's talk about what it was that brought on this need for an ark.

Segment 2 13:44

.....

Bonnie 13:50

So a few weeks ago, the youth in our area here in Utah had a really unique experience. They were able to have this one-on-one with Elder Rasband. He came and spoke to 6 stakes, and it was held in our stake center, televised to other stakes. And so my daughters got to go. The fireside started at seven o'clock, they got there at 5:00, couldn't have been more proud because they wanted a soft seat, they're just like their mother. And before they got there, though, I was talking to them. And I said, Well, are you guys excited to go? And they said, Yeah, cuz no adults are allowed. Now that was interesting. No adults were allowed at all, only one leader was there. We got a letter specifically saying do not come, it's for youth only. And so my two girls are thinking it's pretty awesome. And then my older daughter of the two younger ones said, "Mmm, we're probably going to find out when the Second Coming is and we won't be able to tell you."

Amy 14:40

classic

Tammy 14:41

And I yelled at them, "No 'pinky swears'. If they make you promise not to tell us, you cross your fingers behind your back and then come home and tell me what it is!" I mean, were you guys like that? Did you always think you were gonna know when the Second Coming was, when the Prophet got up to speak at General Conference?

Bonnie 14:54

Oh, for sure. Because we were, you know, told we were a 'chosen generation'. Back then, right?

Tammy 14:58

Yes

Amy 14:58

That ship has sailed.

Tammy 15:05

Every time the Prophet got up, I'm like, everyone be quiet. He's gonna tell us right now. And I love that my daughters think the same thing. He's probably coming to tell us when the second coming is.

Amy 15:13

I'm like, this is the conference. I mean, this world is evil and we need it, come on!

Bonnie 15:18

This world is evil, totally! So here's what we have to do. Before we read how bad of a condition it was during Noah's time (and ours), we have to start with this. So go to Joseph Smith - Matthew, chapter 1, verse 41. Now this is unique. If you haven't used Joseph Smith - Matthew, you're going to find it in your gospel app. If you go to your gospel app, and you go to scriptures, then click on Pearl of Great Price. After Moses, after Abraham, you will see Joseph Smith - Matthew,

Amy 15:48

I'm already there in my physical scriptures. I won Scripture Chase all the time.

Tammy 15:53

All right. Since you're already there, read for us verse 41, smarty pants,

Amy 15:57

Good thing I was being honest.

JS-Matt 41: "But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man."

Tammy 16:07

Oh, okay. Now, I mean, why did you guys react that way?

Bonnie 16:12

Because we're in bad shape. This opportunity to be overseas the last year and to see how, how we treat each other and how, how bad the world is in the circumstances of all of our brothers and sisters around the world and all the turmoil. How bad? How much more uglier does it, does it get? It's pretty ugly, we're pretty mean to each other, we're pretty hurtful. If this is only halfway bad, right?

Tammy 16:44

Yeah, if we're only halfway to the days of Noah, yikes. I'd like it if it were just a notch away. But, go ahead Amy.

Did you say nachos away?

Just a notch away. I wish, I wish it was like 11:59 to the 12 o'clock time of Noah. Like maybe we're one minute away from being as bad, but I don't know.

Amy 17:07

Well, I think it was so bad that God's like, I can't take it anymore so I'm just gonna wipe it all away. That's bad.

Tammy 17:15

Yeah, okay. Share with me the verses.

Bonnie 17:18

He said that. I'm gonna wash that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna drown them all, like all my creations. It's all my creations.

Amy 17:25

I saw a rainbow two days ago. Just a little reminder. I'm not going to do it again.

Tammy 17:29

We're going to talk about that in the next segment. So glad you brought that up. Okay. So I asked you two to read Genesis chapter 6, and Moses 8 before we met, looking for all the verses that describe how bad was it? What did you guys notice? Give us the verse that tells us what it's like.

Bonnie 17:46

Verse 5, the thoughts of their hearts were evil.

Tammy 17:51

And how it says "only evil continually".

Bonnie 17:54

Yeah. Thoughts of their hearts? That's not just a fly-by-night thoughts of, Okay, well I can get through this. Well, you know, that goes deeper. That's an intentional corruption.

Tammy 18:06

And that word 'evil. oooph

Amy 18:10

Verse 11 and verse 13.

Tammy 18:13

Share with us; what are those Ame?

Bonnie 18:16

Filled with violence!

Amy 18:18

Yeah, just the violence "the earth also was corrupt before God and the earth was filled with violence." Ugh, I hate it

Bonnie 18:26

So I'm, I've seen violence, right? Rockets are flying, trying to harm us because of why? Because we don't agree. And so you think it's okay to send rockets. And so I spend a lot of days in the bunkers; gives you a lot of time to ponder life in general. And

Tammy 18:48

I bet

Amy 18:48

Bonnie, is a bunker where you go to like, escape from

Bonnie 18:52

Yes. So when the sirens go off, when the sirens go off, you have to leave where you are, and you have to seek in it. You hear "incoming, incoming, incoming", and then you then you hear the next one, "Seek shelter, seek shelter, seek shelter". It's always in 3s, (like that's a relevant thing). And you have to run to a bunker, and the bunker is a protection. And you sit there and wait, and you hear what's going on around you. Then you'll get the "all clear, all clear, all clear". And then you have to "report accountability, report accountability", and you have to check in. So as you're sitting there, and you're thinking, I did nothing today. I'm trying to help people along my way, and I'm just doing my thing. And all of a sudden, someone wants to hurt me. And not necessarily me, right? But this, this invasion is coming to harm me. And I just don't understand it.

And if the world has to get worse, that people just can think so flippantly of life that they can send a drone over and drop a bomb. It's so without thought. And that goes into, in the scripture in Moses, that their thoughts were evil, unto their imagination, they were thinking, dreaming of the wicked to do. And then going, Oh, I can do it.

Tammy 20:16

That brings up something, because there are plenty of times where I have bad thoughts enter my mind, you know, not appropriate, whatever. But then I can immediately go, Yeah, I probably shouldn't be thinking that and I can move along, but to have those thoughts and then act on them. That's what we're talking about.

It was interesting because there is this scholar, his name is Josephus. So one of the great things that Josephus did was he wrote the Jewish Antiquities. And what this does is it outlines Jewish history beginning with the Creation past all the way down through Jewish historical tradition. And so anytime any scholar has a question about a story in the Old Testament, they often go to Josephus' The Antiquities, to kind of read what he had to say about that story. And it gives us a little bit more context. So I just want you to be aware of who he is. And this is what Josephus said about the days of Noah: a" double degree of wickedness, whereby they made God to be their enemy". Can you imagine making God your enemy? I can't imagine that level of wickedness. I hope I don't ever in my life.

Amy 21:16

Because there's one thing not to believe in Him, but one to believe in Him and then turn your head. That's where I think the wickedness comes in, right? There's plenty that didn't believe and they didn't have, they're not accountable to that, but to believe and then make Him an enemy?

Tammy 21:31

Scary stuff.

Amy 21:32

Well, you have to justify your evil, right? If God is good, then your acts and your thoughts and everything you do, they'd be in opposition. So you have to make God bad, the bad guy. And I think we see that all the time, where living the way we know we're supposed to live maybe doesn't fit into our current desires, and so we downplay God and His role in our life, and we try to forget about Him.

Bonnie 22:00

Ame, you're totally right.

Well then, that makes me think, is that why He had to flood it because there was no hope to change their mind? It wasn't that, Oh, let me teach them about You. It was, You already have turned your head and so I have no choice. How heartbreaking for Him.

Well, let's just read these two quotes that support exactly what the both of you have said. You guys are right, you are spot on with religious scholars. And I love it. I want us to read this quote by Neal A Maxwell and he describes what the days of Noah were like. And he describes them that they were so bad that God couldn't do something specifically. And Ame, will you read this quote.

Amy 22:38

"When corruption had reached an agency-destroying point that spirits could not, in justice, be sent here?"

Wow,

Bonnie 22:49

I hadn't thought about it that way. I thought about destroying and being lost. But it was so wicked that he couldn't even send kids here, they couldn't even be born.

Tammy 22:57

The earth was so bad. Yeah, I can't allow any more spirits to be born on that earth.

Bonnie 23:01

That's a new way to look at it for me; that is new.

Amy 23:04

For sure.

Tammy 23:05

Yes. It was for me, too. And then let's read this quote by President John Taylor. And this has to do with what both of you said about making God your enemy. I loved your comments on it, because it's right in line with this prophet.

Bonnie 23:15

John Taylor said, "Because in forsaking God, they lose sight of their eternal existence, corrupt themselves and entail misery on their posterity. Hence, it was better to destroy a few individuals than to entail misery on many. And hence the inhabitants of the old world," (that would be from Adam till Sodom and Gomorrah?)

Tammy 23:37

Adam till Noah. Yep.

Adam till Noah.

Bonnie 23:40

Okay. Adam, till Noah,) "and of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, because it was better for them to die, and thus be deprived of their agency, which they abused, then entail so much misery on their posterity, and bring a ruin upon millions of unborn persons."

I just hadn't put that together. I thought about an ending, right? It was, all things came to a halt. The whole plan came to a halt.

Tammy 24:11

Yeah. And so now I think what's so interesting is then I take it and I go back to Noah's name again, which means rest. And we have studied this word a lot. And we talked about it a few weeks ago, where we talked about how the word 'rest' can also mean to enter into God's presence. Like, what Noah did and what Noah was a part of, is what will allow everyone another chance to enter into God's rest, to see him face to face. And to be with Him again. They couldn't up until that point, there's no way anyone would qualify for that kind of rest. Isn't that awesome? Ah, it's a lot to take in.

Bonnie 24:50

Again, I'm just blown away with thinking about all of the world - progression has to come to a halt because of the wickedness of men.

So, we're not there yet. That's the good news, I guess. We're not THAT wicked. Whooh. I don't know if I want to be alive for that kind of wickedness.

Amy 25:07

So we're talking on the whole earth, the only people that were not wicked were the people that were on that boat,

Tammy 25:16

Correct

Amy 25:16

because I got a lot of really good people in my ward. So we're not going down yet.

Tammy 25:21

Right. So you got that going for you.

Amy 25:23

Yeah, but I do, I have to think like that, how much good, because I really do have a lot of really good and great around me. And I'm like, Okay, we're still, we're still moving forward.

Bonnie 25:35

Well, and you think, you think much like it happened with Nephi and his brothers laughing at him, you know, people are watching him do this and think, Crazy old man. And what are you doing? So there's that whole part, too. So there's the part of not just people being unrighteous and not even wanting to be on the boat, but then you, the mocking that must happen. And as you're trying to plan and prepare, and people thinking that you are nuts. And how much of your family would leave you then? And then so who you get left with? Hmm, the giraffe. I'm bringing the giraffe.

Amy 26:13

The cheetah.

Bonnie 26:13

Lions, come with me.

Tammy 26:16

Exactly.

Bonnie 26:17

And by the way, I'm gonna take seven of them and unclean.

Okay. So let's do that. In the next segment, we are going to talk all about that ark, well, how it was built, what it was built for. And we're going to dive into some fun words in the next segment.

Segment 3 26:29

.....

Tammy 26:29

So this was always my favorite lesson to teach seminary students because I would take every single class, we'd walk to the football field, we'd sit in the football stands, and I would teach the lesson from there because I wanted the kids to have this perspective of how big the ark was. We're gonna go into Genesis chapter 6, and read the description that the Lord gives to Noah on how big he's supposed to build this ark. So let's go to verse 14. That's where it starts. That's where our song started out. (sings) The Lord said to Noah, to build him an arky-arky, out of gopher wood, in verse 14.

Bonnie 27:05

Gopher wood?

Tammy 27:06

Yeah, so you can highlight the word 'gopher wood'. There are a couple of scholars who believe it comes from a word KOPHER in Hebrew, which means like pitch. And the word pitch is seen again in verse 14. And pitch is basically, they're building it to make it waterproof. And so they're using pitch, this yeah, what did you say Bonnie?

Tar

Yep, perfect. Mortar. It's tar-like substance. And so that's what He's telling him to do is to build it out of this. But then I love verse 15, because every time I read verse 15, I think of Amy and I living together. Amy read verse 15. You're gonna love this so much.

Amy 27:40

Gen 6:15 "And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits."

Tammy 27:53

Okay, what the heck is a cubit? It's the span of an arm from right here. I love this so much. It is about 18 inches. It's the length of a forearm. Amy, how many times would we measure something with our arm?

Amy 28:08

Zero. (laughter) Oh, I thought you were talking about

Tammy 28:11

We never, ever used, we never actually used a real anything to measure it with. We'd always measure it with our arm, or as tall as my hip, right? Like we could have been, we would have done so well in Old Testament times. And I'd use this quote before: Amy would always say, "Measure never, move 100 times."

Amy 28:29

Start over 100.

Tammy 28:31

It's totally us, so whenever I think of a cubit, I'm like, Oh, Amy and I would have done well because we measure everything with a body part. Measuring it I d;on't even know how to read a ruler. So that's what a cubit means. So now, okay, I mean, 300 cubits

Amy 28:46

You can't read a ruler?

Tammy 28:48

Anyone's tried to teach me they're like 16, well, 16 is bigger than one so I don't even know where we're at. I can't like, I don't even know what that means. So, anyway, I went ahead and did the, I ran the numbers for us. Well, actually ran the numbers for us cuz I can't do the math. But we have 300 cubits, I mean 300 Cubits, yes, times 18 inches. We're talking 450 feet long. That's how long the ark was. That is from end zone to end zone, past the end zones. So if you are in a football field, and you go past the goalposts. That's a long ark.

Amy 29:26

All the way to Fact Check.

Bonnie 29:29

You just sitting there with two elephants, two tigers, two lions, like, two whales

Tammy 29:34

It was 75 feet, 75 feet wide.

Bonnie 29:36

We didn't talk about the fish in the waters.

Well I don't know how they're gonna do THAT. Then we got 45 feet high. This is a big monumental task.

Wait, giraffes?

Tammy 29:44

Yeah, giraffes, thank you. Okay, then we have in verse 16. And I love this. You know how much I love this because it goes, ties us to the story of Ether, the brother of Jared.

Amy 30:03

Loved that you taught me this.

Tammy 30:06

Um hmm. Teach it to us, Amy. What do you know?

Amy 29:58

Oh, well, I'll just read it. No, I love this, I love that you taught me a long time ago, before "Sunday on Monday" I didn't have to wait for Monday, taught me that the brother of Jared, of course, would have had the Old Testament. And he searched the scriptures. And so when he was deciding how he would bring light into the ships, he might have read this that says, "a window shalt thou make to the ark ". And so I think the brother of Jared then got that idea and had the Lord touch the stones, which were glass, and boom dyata, like

Bonnie 30:32

Because the footnote for the word 'window' down below, 16a says, in Hebrew, the word is not window, it's "TSOHAR; some rabbis believed it was a precious stone that shown in the ark."

Amy 30:32

Oh, I forgot to do the footnote part.

Bonnie 30:38

Yes!

Tammy 30:46

I mean, I love that verse so much; it makes me

Amy 30:48

Oh, I love it too.

Tammy 30:50

So there we have that connection to Ether chapter 6, verse 7, if you want to put that cross reference. And then we have verse 18. So he makes this gigantic ark. And then verse 18,

Gen 6:18, says, "But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark".

Now highlight "my covenant". This is not the Abrahamic covenant. This is an important covenant, though. So you can cross-reference that with Moses chapter 8, verses 2-3. So just put that there, Moses 8:2-3. And I love the footnote for it in 18a. The footnote down below says, "my covenant, even as I have sworn unto thy father, Enoch, that of thy posterity shall come all nations;" And so this covenant is basically that all nations will flow from Noah and his family. And I don't think Noah really knew what that meant at the time. But there's this covenant, and the Lord knew it, and the Lord's making this covenant with Enoch and his posterity that all generations will come from you. And here we're about to see that. He's remembering that covenant and He is going to have a whole new Adam experience with this Noah's ark and the floods.

So let's go back to Genesis chapter 6, and look at verse 14. Because now Noah is told what he's going to put in the ark. And we kind of talked about this because, you know what's interesting? I want you guys to just look at this word really quick. He says in verse 14, make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the wood. Rooms, highlight that because it means nests or compartments in Hebrew, like you're gonna make little singular compartments or rooms in this ark. And I'm just wondering if Noah was like, Oh, for all my family members, and Aunt Dolores is going to be right here. And my cousin Jeannie is going to be in this compartment.

Amy 32:31

Amy's gonna want her own room.

Tammy 32:32

Oh, for sure, Amy's gonna want her own room. (laughter)

Amy 32:35

She needs her privacy!

Tammy 32:32

She needs her privacy. And then we get to Genesis 7, and the Lord tells Noah what he's going to put in the ark. And what is he told to do? Hit it Bonnie, because you kind of said it a little bit ago.

Bonnie 32:36

To bring them all in. He's got the unclean animals, the clean animals, he's got to do seven of the unclean. Two of the clean, male and female, you gotta go find them all.

Amy 32:56

What does that mean, clean or unclean? It says, "Of every clean beast shall take to thee by the sevens". What does that mean? I don't like the Old Testament sometimes.

Tammy 33:08

No, I'm so glad you asked that question. Let's, let's absolutely define what that means. Okay, let's go to verse 3: "Of fowls also of the air by sevens." Okay, I'm so glad you asked that. So here's what you want to know about the number 7 in Hebrew. And we will put this in the show notes in Hebrew, 7 is SHEVAH. That's how you say it. And it's from the root word SAVAH, and here's what it means: "to be full or satisfied, or to have enough of". Isn't that great? So he could have, sure, he could have had to gather 7 of every kind, or, in Hebrew, the Lord just said, get enough of it. Get enough of the clean, get enough of the unclean. What do you think you're going to need? Because Noah knows what he needs the clean and the unclean for, and so Bonnie, did you, did you find out what clean and unclean meant? I didn't want to take that away from you if you did.

Bonnie 33:55

There's a very long history of what is considered clean and not clean. You're going to have the cloven hoofs, and what you can eat and what you can sacrifice and what you can't sacrifice and what you could not eat

Amy 34:06

From like pork. I mean pigs. I mean bacon. No. But pork is unclean, is that correct?

Tammy 34:12

Correct. But it has to do with their hooves?

Yes.

Bonnie 34:15

It is the cloven hoof.

Tammy 34:16

And we'll get to that when we get to Leviticus. Yes, we'll discuss that in depth, but Bonnie's absolutely right. So clean and unclean beasts refer to animals considered acceptable or unacceptable, to eat and to be sacrificed to God at that time. Clean beasts were gathered in sevens. That's what you can eat and sacrifice. And unclean were to be gathered by twos because nobody needs more than two spiders. Am I right? So a cat would be unclean.

Amy 34:42

I'll say.

Tammy 34:43

Can't eat it, can't sacrifice.

Amy 34:46

Just kidding all you cat lovers.

Bonnie 34:49

So it would be underclean. Yes, Amy, you're correct. A cat would be unclean. You can't eat it. You can't sacrifice it.

Amy 34:58

Can't kill it,

Bonnie 34:59

But a lamb, a sheep would be clean; you can eat it, and you must offer as a sacrifice. That's what it means, I'm so glad you asked that. And then we have seven: enough of whatever Noah thinks. And I like that, I like the 'enough', because I love to think that the Lord's like, No, you know how to do this, I'm gonna let you just decide, I'm going to trust that you can figure this out of exactly what we need.

And then we have verse 4, there we are, For yet seven days, and I will cause the rain, you got seven days to get this together, or however many. I mean, again, it could be 'enough'. And then the rain will come on the earth 40 days and 40 nights and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. And now Bonnie, you have such a cool story about rain. And so I just want you to tell us a little bit about what it's like when it rains in Kuwait, because it is so powerful when you connect it to Noah.

Okay, before we get into the flood story I've got to tell you about Sunday. So my hottest day here in Kuwait was 142. It was a little warm.

Amy 36:01

WHAT?

Tammy 36:02

142 degrees. Fahrenheit.

Amy 36:07

Tammy's not good with maths, Bonnie.

Tammy 36:09

I'm not good, I'm like, are we talking Celcius, here? Oh, Farenheit. That's HOT!

Bonnie 36:12

So I'm thinking about this with Noah, as this is happening to me on Sunday, that the ground is so hard and so dry out here in the desert, that we had a torrential rainstorm on Sunday that flooded everything because the ground can't soak it. So they actually around the base have dug huge holes because this happens every year. Like we laugh that like, Oh, that's the you know, base pool. Huge holes because the water comes down so fast that it can soak into the ground. But on Sunday, I wear a dress on Sunday here on base. I've pull, hiking up my skirt and I've got my boots on and I'm going through this river to get to my car. And it made me think how this, how quickly it could happen for Noah out here because of the terrain, that one day of rain could actually get a boat going. I had no doubt. I'm like, (sings) The Lord said to Noah, (laughter), hiking across the river. Because I needed an arky-arky to get to my car.

Tammy 37:36

Yes, absolutely!

Bonnie 37:36

It came down - tremendous amount of rain at one time, nowhere to go, that it was a river, river and floods. Tents are flooded, buildings are flooded. And I just like, I can totally see how it happened. That it didn't take like the world changing and turning, like the boat could have been lifted in four days of rain. Not a problem. I have testimony of that.

Amy 36:39

Oh, I love that visual of the desert. And then the rain coming because in my mind I'm like, it would have to rain for so long to make all that water

Bonnie 37:56

Amy, it doesn't go anywhere.

Amy 38:02

There's nowhere to go.

Bonnie 38:03

Like, right now it's five days later and the water is still in puddles because it can't soak in. The land is so parched.

Tammy 38:13

Wow. Okay, Bonnie, this is blowing my mind. And I'll tell you why. Cuz I'm making all these connections that we've talked about the last couple of weeks. When we talked about the Cain and Abel story, we focused on how, when it says "Am I my brother's keeper?" And we talked about, Yes, we are; that there are blessings and promises that come from the Lord when we take care of each other. And we read in the Scriptures about the land of milk and honey. And how when you read about that it really is a land that is blessed by the Lord because people are taking care of each other.

And during Enoch, in the book of Moses, we read how the earth had a voice. It's really pretty profound where the earth is saying, When will I get to rest? When do I get to rest? And it's really interesting in that verse because we talked about how we've never really considered that the earth had a voice before. But the earth had this visceral reaction when the Savior was crucified. It says in Moses that the earth had a physical reaction when the Savior was crucified. And now I'm just wondering if during this time of Noah when people were like, God is our enemy, we've fallen away, we don't want anything to do with each other. I wonder if the earth was that dry because it didn't have the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like, the people didn't believe anymore. I wonder if the earth was as dry as you're describing it?

Oh my gosh, okay. I love this so much. Because now I'm also thinking, the connection to Christ. He's the living waters. And of course at this time the earth was going through a major drought of truth. So yes, oh my gosh, Bonnie, I love this. That was a perfect way of you to explain what's going on at this point and, and they came down fast and furious. Here's the rain. And then I just want us to think for a minute though. You're on the ark. What might you have been thinking as the waters started to fall. If you're one of the women married to Shem, Ham or Japheth, or Noah's wife, like what are you thinking at this time?

Bonnie 40:07

You would see drowning, you would hear mourning. That noise alone would be nightmares, right? Either you have to close your eyes and say, I'm in it. Or you just have to pray that God has a better answer. Because I can't imagine watching the boat pull out and in watching the destruction. Is there a part of you that would want to jump out and save? And go get them or,

Amy 40:23

or jump out and not have to deal with the aftermath? I mean, psychologically, I don't think I've ever thought of them as real people before. And what they actually really would have seen, when you talked about the sounds and the things, the animals they saw dying, the smell of death, the crying, the wailing. In my mind, it was always like, oh, a sense of relief, like in <Evan Almighty> when it starts to rain and they're like, "See, I told you it was gonna rain", and they're happy because they're going to be safe. But the pain from watching all of that go bad, go die and suffer, is just so great.

Tammy 40:46

Yeah,

Amy 40:48

I don't know how they were

Bonnie 40:56

And the loneliness. You're floating for days and days, right? The guilt, the quiet, the uncertainty,

Amy 41:30

the seasick,

Bonnie 41:31

the panic that would happen? Are we gonna run out of food? Are we gonna run out of light? Are we're gonna, you know what I mean? The desperation that would come. So, there's a whole cycle of feelings that would be happening, all because we couldn't get everybody on the boat.

Tammy 41:47

Great, great comments. Here's what I want to do. I want us to stop the conversation right now. And in the next segment, I want us to continue to talk about this, the thoughts that you would have. And one of my favorite things from last year was when Michael Wilcox in Episode 33 said, "we will get to ask any question we want". And I'm sure there are people that have so many questions about Noah's Ark. So I want to know what your questions would be? What could you ask God about how this all worked? And then let's talk a little bit more about this cycle. And I want to dive into that, and talk about life on that ark. And we're going to do that in the next segment.

Segment 4 42:22

.....

Tammy 42:28

Let's go right back into the story of Noah. Tell me what your thoughts are? What are some of the things you're thinking or wondering about when it comes to Noah and what's going on at the time?

Bonnie 42:38

There's something that I thought about when I was reading all this, I just wanted, and it stems from your lesson on Jesus the Christ and when we were doing that <Living Christ>, and you asked us in there to think about what the Savior, what role He plays in your life. And for me, it's, it's really hit the last couple months of He's my older brother, He's gonna tell me what's in my best interest. And for me, when I read this again, He gives very specific instructions. He tells Noah exactly how to build this: I need you to do this, I need you to go build it. And it's gonna be 30 handshakes by five handshakes by a shake. And it's gonna work. Right? But He's specific; He tells the brother of Jared to be very specific. We have all these stories of Him being very specific. How are we mindful of how He's being that specific in our lives?

Tammy 43:35

That's a great application to the story of Noah. And I'm thinking about that now. Like, in my own life, and Ame, I wonder if you have a story; has there ever been a time where the Lord was very specific with you?

Amy 43:46

You know, it's funny, because I always want Him to be really specific with me. I have a new calling, and just last night we were talking, God and I, and I said, I'm gonna need You to be, I'm gonna need Thee to be really specific with me. Because these girls need a lot, that I don't know that I know how to give. And the thought is, Don't worry, just a step at a time, step at a time. I've written it out, but I'll continue to help you interpret. There have been times in my life when God has been very specific - when it was time to go on a mission and make some serious changes in my life. That was the most specific God has ever been with me, I think, in my life. Because it needed to happen, and I think there was a timeframe for it to happen. And I was wasting some time. So,

Tammy 44:05

That's a great example. I like that. I like how you had two examples too, to what the Lord's like, I know what's going to happen. But I want you to take one step at a time. I'm not going to lay it all out for you right now. And then there are times when He's very specific with us. And I think that's what He did with Noah. 'Let me be specific with you on how you're going to do this.' And then I wonder if Noah's wife was like, Well, how are we going to do it on the ark? And maybe the Lord was like, one day at a time, one step at a dry

Bonnie 45:04

You want me to cook in this? I can't cook in this

Amy 45:06

Well, I remember on the last time I was on the podcast with Riley. And we talked about how the Lord only gives us what we can handle at the time. Because truly, let's be real. If Noah's wife had understood all that she would do and see like, she could not. I think, I know we underplay her power and faith and stuff, but I don't think she could have handled the truth. I don't think Noah could have handled the truth if he'd got it all at once. It would be like, No way. There's no way we can do that. There's no way we can take two of every kind. There's no way that I and my little family can be in charge of repopulating the entire world. So sorry. I mean, come on, the pressure.

Bonnie 45:48

Well, and Bonnie, I was thinking too, like your mom is a midwife. I wondered, did anyone have a baby on the ark? Because they were on the ark - now this was interesting to me - they were on the ark for an entire year and 10 days. And the references for that are in Genesis 7, verse 11, then verse 24, then chapter 8, verses 13-14. But one year and 10 days on an ark with your family, plus a lot of animals. That's a lot of stuff! A lot of meals to cook, plus all the other girls on the boat. I mean, you know, your three sons' wives. Oh, boy.

Tammy 46:25

Yes. And Bonnie, I like this, because you kind of you brought this up a couple segments ago. But people might ask this question: Why did they have to spend so long on the ark? And I think it's interesting because, go to verse 19. In Genesis, chapter 7, verse 19 it says, "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth". Underline or highlight the word 'prevailed'. In Hebrew, it's not prevailed, it's 'increased'. "And the waters increased exceedingly upon the earth", and all the high hills were under the whole heavens were covered. I mean, it's a lot of water here. The whole point and purpose of this was to do what to the earth?

Bonnie 47:00

The earth had to be baptized.

Tammy 47:02

The earth had to be baptized. That's exactly right, Bonnie.

Bonnie 47:06

Think of the highest mountain, you think of Kilimanjaro. Like, there's a lot of water to get up there to be on top of that, right?

Amy 47:14

And then when it says in the next verse, it was 15 cubits upward. So it, was it with 15 cubits......

Tammy 47:22

Above the highest point.

Amy 47:22

higher than Everest, right.

Tammy 47:24

That's exactly right, Amy. Yes, exactly right.

Amy 47:27

That's pretty high.

That's exactly right. And this is found in Moses chapter 7, verse 20. And they're floatin', there they are, on the earth. And it did, it had to be baptized. This is so cool, we have two really great quotes from apostles, where they talk about this. So Amy, will you read this quote for us, and then Bonnie I'll have you read this quote about the Earth's baptism.

Mark E Peterson: "He, God would not baptize a portion of it any more than He would be satisfied with a partial immersion if we were baptizing some person."

And Bonnie, will you read what Elder John A Widtsoe had to say about the baptism of the earth.

Bonnie 48:06

He said, "The Latter-Day Saints look upon the earth as a living organism, one which is gloriously filling the measure of its creation. They look upon the flood as a baptism of the earth, symbolizing a cleansing of the impurities of the past, and the beginning of a new life."

That's beautiful.

Tammy 48:23

Yeah. And the beginning of many new lives, right?

Bonnie 48:26

And it goes back to what we talked about, that all progression stopped; it was a new beginning for all of these spirits to be able to come and have a chance. I just need a chance. You're saying it's just, "You're sayin there's a chance?" (laughter)

Tammy 48:41

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Bonnie 48:43

You gotta have a chance, right? And they didn't have chance before, so they had to stop. Now that it's been cleansed, WE have a chance.

Tammy 48:54

Yes! Okay. So after being on the ark, listen, Noah and his family, they need to know: Hey, when's it safe to come off the ark? So in Genesis chapter 8 - and we have verses 6-11 - there are two specific birds that answer that question for them. But in Moses chapter 8, verse 6, we have to go there first, because it says that "Noah opened the window of the Ark which he had made." Now, that word for 'window' is not the same word that we used in Genesis chapter 6, verse 16. The window in this verse is CHALON, and it means 'an opening, a hole, or a gap'. So Noah sends through a hole, an opening, or a gap in the ark, two different types of birds.

Because I wonder if the Lord said to Noah, Okay, well, here's what you're gonna do: you're gonna take a dove and a raven. I would not have been smart enough to figure this out. I just would have waited until all of a sudden we just hit land - abruptly - and looked out and gone, Okay, it's over. It wouldn't have even occurred to me that, let's send out two birds and let's see what happens. And they are specific. There is a very important reason why he sent out a raven in (Gen. 8) verse 7. So verse 7 says he "sent forth a raven. And he went forth to and fro until the waters were dried upon the earth."

Okay, let me tell you about this because this, I loved learning. So a raven is a bird of prey, it feeds on decaying flesh and dead animals that get this, the smell of dead carcasses would have invited the raven to go off the ark and not return. But because there was nothing left for it to eat, there was no dead flesh, it kept coming back and forth. Yeah, it came back until finally it didn't return. And I think it's interesting that some Jewish writers say, "it found the carcass of a man on the top of the mountains, and sat upon it for food and returned not." And so that's how Noah knew. Because in my mind, I always thought, why would he send a raven? I don't really understand that because the dove did a fine job. It brought back the tree branch. And then we knew there was a tree and kind of what you said, Bonnie, Oh, there's something living that the bird can live in. But then now, the dove is so symbolic. If we knew that the earth was baptized, what was the symbolism of a dove then?

Bonnie 51:11

The spirit?

Amy 51:12

Yep,

Bonnie 51:13

Opposition, all things, the raven and the dove: that's gonna prey on the flesh of man, and the spirit, which will save man. And I know that in both birds, I mean, I think it's very symbolic of what needed to happen. And of what happened, that the world was ravenous to become dovesque. And that's what it proved. And when the raven didn't come back, I think that also would be traumatic too, of thinking, what is out there? Can you imagine getting out of the boat? Then the hope that came with the dove and that there was green.

Tammy 51:57

Yes, I like that word hope that you just used because the dove is a symbol of the Holy Ghost. And how amazing to think that the earth has been baptized, it has been renewed, and it has also received the gift of the Holy Ghost. Like, spiritually speaking, now it is cleansed, it is sanctified - is the word we'd use. And it is ready to be lived on again. So oh, that's so good. So talk about hope. Hope with a capital H, Hope. Here we go, we can start start anew. And that is exactly what Noah and his family do. Starting in verse 16. They went forth from the ark. And I love how it says "thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee." And it's interesting, because the very first thing they do is in verse 20. And we just have to mark that. And Bonnie, will you read verse 20 for us.

Bonnie 52:45

Okay, in verse 20, it says, "And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar."

The first thing he did was give thanks, he built an altar and said, Thank you.

You know, it made me think of this perspective of this last year, we've had this year of COVID, and being cooped up in homes with each other and living our lives in a way we never imagined before. And losing loved ones, people who are so dear to us. And I just thought, Is my go-to sacrifice? Is that my first reaction to give thanks to God for the last year I've lived? Was that my go-to on January 1st, 2022 - to give thanks for 2021? And it just gave me a new perspective with Noah, that he lost so many loved ones, people, dear friends, and the first thing he thinks to do is give thanks. That just strikes me.

Amy 53:42

Or break out: (sings) "Looks like we've made it!"

Tammy 53:45

Right? Isn't that as surprising? I get. I kind of just want to think on that for a little bit. And even take some time to write about it in your journals. Like, in what ways do you give thanks to the Lord after a hardship? After a trial? What does that look like in our lives? How are we sacrificing for Him? When really, I just want to sit in my bed and drink Diet Coke and eat Doritos.

Amy 54:11

Nothing wrong with that! So, I feel like I'm always the naysayer negative person. But if I had just watched the world be baptized... I've been, I was the Primary President recently, so I went to lots of baptisms. And I know what happens right after the baptism, they come back all wet, they're going to get the Holy Ghost, right? So if the earth literally had to be baptized, then the earth literally has to receive the Holy Ghost. I would be like, Hey, now, I'm gonna have to watch it burn?When is it gonna burn? Like, these are like literal things. So I just keep thinking, Holy cow. And I live in Colorado. We've had all these fires, and the fires moved within like, miles, within seconds, within 60 seconds a fire spread so fast because the winds were blowing 100 miles an hour. I kind of thought it was the end; maybe the Confirmation of the earth. But for real, a little. But I think my human nature would be to think, What's next? Like, okay, we did it, we did that, that was hard. I can't imagine anything being harder. But now something more hard's gonna happen.

Tammy 55:17

Um-hmm. Amy, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because that is a perfect segue into the next segment, because it did get hard. And so we are going to talk about what that looked like for Noah and his family in the next segment.

Segment 5 55:30

....

Tammy 55:30

Let's go into Genesis chapter 9, does it get harder? I don't know, you tell me. Look at this verse. Genesis chapter 9, verse 1. And here is what Noah is told by the Lord. Amy, will you please read verse 1.

Gen 9:1 "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

Let's just write 'Adam' to the outside of that. Because guess what, you know what's got to start all over. Noah and his wife, and sons and daughters-in-law are given the same command as Adam: multiply and replenish the earth. And then throughout Genesis chapter 9, verses 2-7, they are given the rules to live by which are similar to Adam. But you might notice that there is an emphasis on violence and shedding blood, which scholars believe is carried over from the condition of the world prior to the flood, and why the earth was flooded. And so the Lord is very careful right here to remind them of the role that violence played. And He's focusing on that like, Hey, remember where that gotcha? So that's why you're gonna read a lot about that in these verses.

And then verse 7, ".....be fruitful and multiply, bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. And that is not the same as verse 1, multiply and replenish. This specifically is talking about the word 'fruitful' means 'works'. You're going to multiply the work you do. You got to work hard. There's a lot to do. Suddenly, you're thinking life on the ship wasn't so bad, am I right? I wonder if verse 7 also has to do with the earth in general, because the earth is now, has to be fruitful and multiply and replenish all of seed and trees and grass. Like, that's a ton of work in verse 7 that Noah and his family have to do.

Bonnie 57:04

And cultivate the land, and yes, and reseed and

Tammy 57:08

And they have to be farmers.

Bonnie 57:10

And harvest. Yes.

Oh, my word. That's a lot. Well, that makes sense then, in Genesis chapter 9, verse 20. Look at verse 20, it says, "And Noah began to be a husbandman". And the word husbandman, actually means 'man of the soil'. Boy, that's a lot of work for them. They are going to

Amy 57:29

At 500?

Tammy 57:31

Right? Yeah, he's no spring chicken here. Wow, it's a ton. It is a ton of work, just like you said, Amy, like it did get harder for them. And they're going to start all over?

Amy 57:43

Well, the good news is, they have nothing else to do. They didn't have any meetings to be at. They didn't have any carpools.

Tammy 57:52

Well, there you go. Yeah, yeah.

Amy 57:54

And we need work, right? We need work to grow and be successful, I think.

Bonnie 57:59

You know what's interesting, 'cause I see so many young men, right, where I'm at right now, that when they're not working, they don't know what to do. And so that's what the need we fulfill here in the job that I'm fulfilling right now, is that we have to offer them things to do. Because they don't know how to monitor themselves without their job that they're doing. And so, after work, if you only work for X amount, then they don't know how to monitor their time. So we have now people that are working full time with a purpose, right? Noah and his family had a purpose. They had to multiply and replenish everything. And that can also give us rest, because you have, you're fulfilling a purpose.

Oh, I really like that input. I mean, definitely. I love it when my kids are busy. Boy, when they're not busy? You're right. When there's downtime and all they want to do is watch YouTube videos?

disastrous.

Amy 58:55

Yep

Tammy 58:56

Yeah, it's a nightmare. I was, being busy is a good thing.

Amy 58:59

Energy creates energy. Yes, absolutely. So great. Thank you for that discussion on that. That was really good. And I think it's interesting that in here the Lord now is going to make a covenant with Noah and his family. And that's in verse 11. And He's like, now I can establish my covenant with you that I'm never again ever going to destroy the earth with a flood. And so He makes this promise in Genesis chapter 9, verse 11. And Amy, you brought this up earlier, so here it is. The Lord promises to never flood the earth again. And He attached to His promise, a sign, which is found in Genesis chapter 9, verse 13.

And this is really cool, because this is familiar to many of us in the church. When we make covenants with God, He gives us a sign, and I love talking about this with the Sacrament. We made that Baptismal covenant, and the sign attached to that is the Sacrament. That is the sign, that's the physical action we use when we renew our covenants, is taking the bread and the water. And if you have colored markers, I drew a square around verse 13, and all the colors I could find so it stands out. Amy read verse 13.

Gen 9:13 "I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of covenant between me and the earth."

Bonnie 1:00:09

That is a rainbow, right? And why did you say earlier that you saw a rainbow, Ame?

Amy 1:00:14

Because you taught me that as long as we have rainbows, it's a sign that God is not going to flood the earth again.

Tammy 1:00:21

That's exactly what it means. Now, a few centuries later, however, the promise of the rainbow was totally forgotten, and actually not even trusted by a group of believers. So they build this tower, which we're going to talk about next. But they do it so that they won't die in another flood, but they think they're saving themselves. And we know that the earth will be cleansed again, but it won't be by water. And Amy, you mentioned this in your story about the Colorado fires; the earth will be cleansed by a baptism of fire. And you can read about that, and Malachi chapter 4, verse 1; Doctrine and Covenants 29, verse 9. We'll actually put the references in our show notes.

But going back to that group of believers who built the tower. Before we study about the Tower of Babel or Babel, however you want to say it, let's go to Genesis chapter 9, verse 18, where we have a story that is often overlooked. And often it's actually not even told, but it gives us some history into who was the leader of the people that built that tower of Babel. So let's go to Genesis chapter 9, verses 18-29. And here's what we want to know about this story. It's really unusual. It's an account that has an incident with Noah and his sons.

So Noah gets drunk in verse 21. And as he gets drunk, his son, Ham - allegedly what happens in these verses as you read the story, is - Ham comes in, and he steals Noah's garment, which is the garment of Light, the Holy Garment of the Priesthood. And Noah took it on the ark, because it is this holy garment that allows him to participate in priesthood ordinances, in sacrifices, in tabernacle. But we just have to read this really great quote about this experience that happened. And so Bonnie, will you read this for us.

Bonnie 1:01:59

The garment was taken. This is the Holy Garment of the Priesthood. This is a ritual garment of power and not just by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. From Jewish tradition preserved in the Talmud comes this: "And there was a certain coat of skins which God had made for Adam. When Adam died this coat became the possession of Enoch. From him, his descendant, to Methuselah. His son Methuselah gave it to Noah, who took it with him to the ark. And when the people left the ark, Ham stole this coat, and hid it from his brothers, giving it secretly thereafter to Cush, his son. Cush kept it hidden for many years, until out of his great love he gave it to,

Tammy 1:02:49

and we're going to leave you there with a cliffhanger. I'm going to tell you in the next segment, who he gave it to, and what this man did with the Garment.

Segment 6 1:02:56

....

Bonnie 1:03:01

So in the last segment, we read a quote about how the Holy Garment of the Priesthood was stolen by Ham, given to his son Cush, who kept it hidden, and then he gave it to..... And Bonnie, I'm going to have you finish the quote. Here we go, he gave it to:

Nimrod, the child of his old age. When Nimrod was 20 years of age, he put on his coat and it gave him strength and might!

Tammy 1:03:24

Amy, I love that you laughed.

Amy 1:03:26

You used to call me a Nimrod. "You nimrod!"

Tammy 1:03:30

Right? Oh my gosh, I have that written right here. How many of you called somebody or were called a nimrod? Um-hmm, uh- huh! Why? What does that word mean?

Amy 1:03:39

I thought it meant idiot.

Bonnie 1:03:39

But Nimrod was the chosen one. I know,

Tammy 1:03:41

Right!

Amy 1:03:42

Turns out I'm the chosen one.

Bonnie 1:03:44

Yes!

Tammy 1:03:45

Thanks, dad! (laughter)

Amy 1:03:47

Ya nimrod.

Bonnie 1:03:48

Thanks for the compliment. Um, I actually found out this - I did a little research on how Nimrod became such a negative name. This is hilarious. It's in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Elmer Fudd is hunting Daffy Duck. And when Elmer Fudd the hunter, misses Daffy Duck, Daffy Duck calls him a nimrod, which is hilarious because Nimrod was a mighty hunter, that is who he is! Go with me into Genesis chapter 10. You guys, you're gonna love this. Genesis chapter 10, verses 8 and 9. Let's find out who Nimrod is. So we have Genesis chapter 10, verses 8 and 9. And Amy, will you read those for us?

Amy 1:04:27

Gen 10:8 "And cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

9 "He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord."

Tammy 1:04:39

Okay, now pause for a second there, everyone get comfortable. We're gonna do a little storytime right here. I want to tell you about this man.

Once upon a time, there was a man who was a mighty hunter in the land. He was such a mighty hunter that some Hebrew scholars believe that by wearing the garment animals would fall down in honor and respect for for him which allowed him to kill the animals. And as a result the people made him king over them because he had so much power. Now Nimrod, he became this mighty man of sin and he was actually a murderer of innocent men, and by innocent we mean believers. He was a rebel before the Lord.

I thought this was interesting that in my research of him, the Jews, they actually hold Nimrod's name in this regard: "a symbol of rebellion against God and of usurped authority." They believe that he actually established a false priesthood and a false kingship in the earth, and that it was an imitation of God's rule, and that he made all men to sin. He had to hide his sins because he was so evil. And, he also wanted to hide the sins of his people.

So get this. He convinces them that they actually needed to have a more easier and efficient way to worship God, and to be prepared for another flood. Like, he didn't believe in the stories. So he thought, You know what? Another flood will come, so I've got to get my few people ready. So he decides we're going to build a tower. That's our answer. And now I think this is interesting, because he framed this tower as a "Tower Temple". And in Genesis chapter 11, verse 4, it teaches us. Let's go there. And here's what it says,

Gen 11:4 "....Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

They have completely forgotten whose name they are called by, they're the Lord's, they're His people. And, and going back to that idea of how before Noah, the earth, had no rain, it didn't have the Living Waters or the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And that's kind of where we're getting to. So, the word Babel in Hebrew - now this is so interesting - the word Babel in Hebrew means 'confusion'. But in Babylonian, the meaning was 'gate of God'. And so Nimrod has completely gotten his people to buy into this idea that they're building their own gate to God, they're building their own temple, their own approach to heaven. And with, and the problem is, is this is without divine approval or priesthood keys.

So the Babylonians, they are an apostate people. They actually had some understanding of temple ordinances and temple purpose. So they construct their own edifice, which is symbolizing to them their connection to God. And they're using their own contrived ceremonies to imitate true temple worship. They actually are attempting to duplicate the process of preparation for the hereafter. Now, in Genesis, chapter 11, verse 5, look at that verse because it says that the Lord came down and saw the city and the tower. You guys, He was so distraught with the condition of the people that verse 6 tells us, they believed, "nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

What this means is, they actually believed they could sin or commit any sin they could imagine and they would be safe, because they had themselves a new name, and a new Tower Temple, and it would save them, that covenants didn't matter. They had actually created - I love this in my mind, this is how I imagined it - they actually created their own Fastpass to God. That's what the tower was, a fast pass to God, that bypassed covenants. And so the Lord scattered the people by confounding their language.

Now, this is where the story about the brother Jared and his family come into play. If you go to Ether chapter 2, verse 1, you're going to read that it tells us about this large group of people who are preparing for their journey to the promised land, and they went down into the valley of Nimrod. That's where it comes from. But here's what I want to know from both of you, okay, because we've talked about now, the Lord confounds their language. And this causes them to become scattered. And both of you speak languages. So, why did God confound their language? Like, of all the things He could have done, He could have struck them down dead, He could have opened the earth to swallow them, because He's gonna do that later in the Old Testament. Why would He confound their language? If He's going to change the languages of everyone, what does that do to the ability to communicate?

Amy 1:08:52

You can't. A lot of confusion, misunderstanding,

Bonnie 1:08:58

You can communicate at a different level. And now

Amy 1:09:01

like you have been with these refugees, fascinating.

Bonnie 1:09:03

That's just it. So in the refugee camp, we had two camps here. The men and women are segregated. And I knew where the women were going to be, where would be in the bathroom. So they're in the bathrooms. And so I would go into the bathroom and there'd be, one time, there was probably 20 women, and 30 kids. I held my breath, said a little prayer and said, Help me communicate. And we did. And there was no language in between. We have to learn in a different level, when we can't communicate in a vocal manner.

Which is what the brother of Jared did, and his family. Oh, my goodness, and how much more now do I love the wording and Ether chapter 1? And if you go there, look for how many times it says 'compassion'. That the Lord had compassion on them. Oh, wow, you guys, that was so good. In fact, I wonder if when they said, Ask the Lord not to confound our language. Now I wonder if what they were really saying was, Ask the Lord to please remember us, so that we can communicate with Him. And so for people who aren't able to go closer to the spirit, though, if the Lord confounds their language, then the result is what, Ame?

Amy 1:10:14

Tears and frustration. Well, I was thinking about my mission. And I think I mentioned this before, that my Patriarchal Blessing says, You've been blessed with the gift of tongues. So I was like, Easy Street. When I got called to Puerto Rico, I'll learn Spanish. And I was able to learn Spanish and speak it really well. And after four months on my mission of not understanding, I finally got a blessing. And the blessing said, from an Elder I didn't even know: 'You've been blessed with the gift of tongues, but not the gift of interpretation of tongues. This is the case because you need to learn how to listen with your heart. And as you listen with your heart through the Spirit, you will understand what people are saying.'

And I went home and I bawled like, you're never going to be able to understand it. My friend said, didn't you hear? It said, As you listen with your heart. Stop trying to solve their problems. Just listen, you will understand. And it's still the same today. If I listen with my heart and stop trying to translate every word or solve problems, I can understand. It's like a radio being tuned, I can understand Spanish if I'm listening with my heart.

Bonnie 1:11:17

You have an amazing heart. You listen with your heart of anybody I know.

Amy 1:11:21

Thank you, Bonnie. Where Spanish is concerned, I know when I'm not listening with my heart, when my motives aren't right and my heart's not in the right place. It's kind of a blessing and a curse. So I understand this a little bit better now.

Tammy 1:11:35

I love how you both have tied this into this idea that we listen with our heart because you guys, the heart is the strongest organ of the body. And I'm thinking of these once- believing Babylonians, who just probably stopped listening with their heart. And the devastating effect it had on them, it was their heart that stopped. And not literally, but spiritually. Oh my gosh, that gives me goosebumps because I think how often, if our heart stops spiritually, that the ramifications that has on us. And then we read this as a reminder in Genesis chapter 6, verse 5, in describing the days of Noah, it says, "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." I think that is describing what happens when your heart stops spiritually. Hmm, I like that.

I want us to go back to how we started. Let's go back to Genesis chapter 6, verse 6. There's a verse that we didn't get to touch on, which I think fits perfectly right here, because the time of Noah was so wicked. And verse 6 says,

6:6 "And it repented the LORD, that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Highlight the word 'repented'. I love this word in Hebrew, because what it really means is, He was so sorry or sad. The Lord was so sorry and sad that He had made man on the earth and it grieved Him at his heart, because they couldn't communicate. They couldn't listen with their heart. I'm taking it a challenge for me this week to listen with my heart. That is my goal.

I'm going to try and listen with my heart and not try to speak everyone's language because boy, as a mom, I'm trying to speak teenager, like it's my job, and I'm not very good at it. So there is some confusion. I love this, like I'm making this connection. Like it is hard to speak teenager. And guess what, I don't have to know that language. I just have to speak with my heart. It is hard to speak to the language of non-members or the language of people who've left the church, disaffected members, like, whatever that language is. You don't have to speak it fluently. You just have to speak and listen with your heart. Bonnie, you look like you have something to say, say it.

Bonnie 1:13:37

I have no military in my family; man, I don't know anything military. And I came out here and working with the military, I don't know their language. I'm a middle-aged woman out here in the middle of the desert. What I do know is I can serve. Everyone that comes into my house makes the comment I feel comfortable here. I believe that comes because we listen with our heart. And we serve with our heart. I don't know their language, and I can't compete in that realm. So what I can do is do what the Lord asks us to do. It's enough to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ. And Noah's family was members, and it was enough. And it got them through the flood, and it got them through the hard times. It was enough.

Tammy 1:14:22

It was all about the heart. Wow. Great discussion today. Ladies. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's the end. That's the end of our episode. So thank you. Wow. Take a minute and think of your takeaway - anything you learned, anything you're going to take away with you this week?

Bonnie 1:14:38

I know mine, it blew me away. All progression stopped. The world was so evil. Everything stopped and we couldn't come to earth. And that was the whole plan. And it was stopped.

Tammy 1:14:54

Umm. Great takeaway Bonnie. I loved when you had had that, you could see it, like the AHA with Bonnie was so awesome. Ame, what's yours?

Amy 1:15:02

Gosh, just a powerful reminder to listen with my heart. You know, it's really easy in Spanish, but how am I doing an English? And as my role as a mom and as a young woman's leader, how will I listen with my heart so that I will understand the way Heavenly Father would have me understand them?

Bonnie 1:15:19

My takeaway is Bonnie, when you described what it's like over there, and how dry the land is, and you gave me a visual. I'm such a visual learner. And now it makes more sense why it was able to just cover the earth so fast. And then connecting that to because there wasn't Living Water, and how it's kind of describing our day. Like, there is a drought for the gospel of Jesus Christ, there is a drought for Christ's words. And the effect that has on us is so profound. So I loved that discussion, Bonnie. Wow. That was good ladies. Better than I imagined. Thank you so much.

Amy 1:15:53

Thank you, Tam. Thanks, Bon.

Tammy 1:15:54

Thanks for giving your time. Thanks for coming back on. I love you both.

Okay, I want to hear what your takeaway was from this episode. Because this was such a fun episode. I mean, it's Noah. And it's the Tower of Babel. It was awesome. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go do it. It's a great place to ask questions, to make comments on other people's questions. And then to share your takeaway, which at the end of every week, usually on a Sunday, we do a post for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let me know what you've learned.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. And it's not a bad idea to go there because that's where we also have the links to the references we use, which are many, as well as all of the Hebrew words throughout the shownotes and a whole transcript of this entire discussion. So go check that out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our so awesome study group participants were Bonnie El Haltah and Amy Hutchins Whitmore. And you can find more information about these friends at LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. Our podcast is produced by Erika Free and me. It is recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios and our Executive Producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week.

And please remember that God loves you with all of his heart because you're his favorite.

Bonnie 1:17:17

I'm a camel whisperer. Oh, my gosh. So the soldiers that protect our world are afraid of the camel, so I'm walking the camels around. Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, is it going to be safe? Get on the camel. Ma'am, ma'am. I might get on the camel. And then they're like, like a fighter. Oh, this is awesome.