52: The Matchless Gift of God’s Divine Son (Christmas)

Tammy 0:00

This is the Christmas episode. I'm so excited, you guys. There are only six more days until Christmas. And conveniently there are 6 segments in our episode. How do you like that? So have an idea. Take a segmaent every day and talk about Christ. Because I think what is so cool about this episode, is we are studying the document The Living Christ. That's it. That's all we're studying. And could there be a better lead-up to the Savior's birth? I mean, honestly. So I feel like this is going to be just such a special episode and a really special week. And I'm so grateful that you're studying about the Savior with us.

Welcome to the Sunday On Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Okay, if you're new to our study group, let's just make sure you know how to use this podcast. So, follow the link that's in our description; it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study, just like my friends Kathy and Brent Horrocks. Hi, guys.

Now, another awesome thing about our study group, and my favorite, is that we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always going to be just a little bit different each week. So today, I'm so excited to announce that we have Mandy Green. She's back. Hey, everybody, how excited are we? Hi, Mandy.

Mandy Green 1:13

Hey, Tammy. So awesome to be back.

Tammy 1:16

I know. We get you like every six months, so that's kind of how we've worked it out. And it's kind of cool because it's for special episodes. So we have Mandy, and Mandy is my original Hebrew teacher. And then, we have Kaylen Nelson. Hi, Kaylen.

Kaylen Nelson 1:28

Hi, how are you?

Tammy 1:31

Oh, well I'm great. I love it that you're with us today. How are you feeling?

I'm a little anxious, a little nervous. That's okay, we're excited to be here.

Well, I found Kaylen because she teaches Seminary at the local high school here and my daughter goes to that school. And so I met her that way. It was so fun because she says to me, You look familiar. And I was like, Oh, you've probably seen my face on a milk carton or something. We kind of laugh because it was like no, she recognized me from Sunday on Monday. And she listened to the Have a Very Merry Easter - was that what it was - was it Easter that we did it? Have a Very Merry Easter. That was such a great episode where Mandy was with us. And we learned about all the Marys in Jesus' life.

Mandy Green 2:10

So good.

Kaylen Nelson 2:10

That was awesome.

Tammy 2:11

So good. And then you ended up taking Hebrew from Mandy.

Kaylen Nelson 2:15

I did. I did. I took the introduction class. It was awesome.

Hebrew love all around.

Tammy 2:20

All around. So, I'm so glad that you agreed to join us. And when I told Mandy that you were going to be with us, Mandy texted back said, I love her, she'll be a perfect fit. And so I'm excited.

Kaylen Nelson 2:32

That's so nice.

Mandy Green 2:32

Kaylen, you're awesome.

Tammy 2:35

Yeah, absolutely. So if you want to find out more information about my friends, you can go to our show notes, which are at LDS Living.com/SundayonMonday and we'll have their bios and their pictures.

Okay, so I just have to start out by saying, Kudos to the church curriculum team that writes and prepares the manuals that we study from because honestly, I can't think of a better way to end this year, and to prepare us for the Old Testament than to study and learn about Jesus, right? And so, friends, what I need you to do is make sure that you have a copy of The Living Christ. And in our show notes, I have a link to where you can just click, and it will pull it up, and you can print it on your computer.

And then what I want you to do is number the paragraphs. Now we did this when we did Proclamation of the Family last week. And so we're going to number these paragraphs, because that's how we're going to refer to them as we study this Proclamation. So go do that, and then come back, and then we will start with segment 1.

Hey, are we good?

Mandy Green 3:27

Make sure they print the right one because I printed a different one. And there was like 13 paragraphs, I got really confused.

Kaylen Nelson 3:35

I did the same thing.

Mandy Green 3:36

Like there's, yeah, there's a couple of different ones, I think.

Tammy 3:40

Yeah. Great point, Mandy. So I think the link will take you to the actual one I'm talking about. Don't print the living Christ that fits on one page. You want the living Christ that is on two pages, the font's a little bit bigger, you have more room in the margins, and all of that fun stuff. So when you do that, you should have a total of 10 paragraphs. Otherwise, like Mandy said, there's like 13

Mandy Green 3:59

Yeah. If you have 13, go restart.

Tammy 4:01

Okay, everyone, grab your copy of The Living Christ, and let's dig in. One of the things that has been really incredible to me is that the last few episodes have had kind of the same overriding theme, which is 'a foundation'. We've talked about how a foundation built on Christ is the only way any of us will be able to safely stand on solid ground in these last days, and it keeps recurring over and over again. In fact, if you go back to Helaman 5:12, I mean, how awesome that it says, "....remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation;". So, I love that we're ending the year by studying The Living Christ, but I also think it is so timely that we are studying it before we begin our study of the Old Testament. So my question for you two is, Why do you think that this foundation of Christ is integral to studying the Old Testament?

Mandy Green 4:53

Well, I think for me, it's really been impressed upon me that if we don't know the Old Testament, The New Testament isn't going to be as impactful because the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. And so we tend to be really present tense people, right? We assign everything to our time and place. But the Old Testament is going to really go back to deep symbols and archetypes and these really beautiful parts of Christ that maybe we don't get to see when we're so present-tense, or even just like, turn of the century. And so for me, it's such a rich opportunity to know Him in different aspects and different ways. And I promise it will reward your study of the New Testament the next year; you won't be studying the same book that you did three years ago. It will be really, really different.

Tammy 5:47

I like that connection you made to the New Testament. Because I mean, that's going to be fun. But Kaylen, what would you say to your students, cuz you teach seminary? Why should they have a foundation of Christ before studying the Old Testament?

Kaylen Nelson 5:57

Sometimes in class, depending on my lesson in Seminary, I'll show them that last clip of Narnia, where Aslan comes in, like, takes out the White Witch, and it's like, a little bit violent, and they like kind of love that I'm showing that in Seminary. But I'm like, Did you guys know this is about Jesus? And I am telling you, they don't! They were like, This is about Jesus? And I'm like, Oh, my. That's the whole point. And so if you are looking for great archetypes, the Old Testament is the place to go. When you look at Joseph as a type of Christ, and you look at Isaac as a type of Christ, and you look at, I mean, any of these characters, and their symbolism. I think you can look at Ruth as a type of Christ, and all these characters.

And so I think that the Old Testament is a lot of crazy stories. But I think that there's a lot of beauty that comes when we look at it through the lens of Jesus Christ. And so I think that if we aren't focused there, then we get kind of wrapped up in kind of like the shock and awe of the Old Testament, because there a lot of shock and awe.

It's totally like triple R rated. Of course.

Tammy 7:00

Oh, it's awesome, yeah!

Kaylen Nelson 7:01

So, anyway, I just think that some of the best types of Christ, some of the best symbols of Jesus Christ are Old Testament. And I, I think we do have a problem in the church of biblical illiteracy. We're like, we don't understand Isaiah. And I'm like, yeah, it's because you've never read Kings. But if you've never read Kings, and you don't understand the history, you are never going to understand Isaiah. And so we really need to become more Bible literate, because as we become more Bible literate, we understand the history - like Nephi says, the types, the places, the locations, the politics - then we can understand some of the greatest prophecies.

Tammy 7:38

Ah, I love how you just explained that. As I've been preparing for our Old Testament year, on a sticky note, I wrote, Find Jesus, and I have it stuck right above my computer to remind me throughout this whole year that that is my goal, is to find Jesus in every story. And if you look, you'll find Him. I just totally believe that. Thank you, thank you, ladies, for that beginning discussion.

Okay, so let's dive into The Living Christ. And we're going to look at the first paragraph, paragraph number 1. And one of the first words that I marked was, "As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two 'millennia' ago". And I just wrote 1000 above it, because sometimes that's a big word. And I was like, Oh, I need to translate. So it just really is 2000 years ago. Now, tell me what else you guys marked - what is unique about this first paragraph?

Mandy Green 8:25

I love the phrase, "His matchless life". Just already, incomparable. You're going to be in the face of something unparalleled and exquisite beyond any other thing. I mean, that's a great teaser trailer.

Tammy 8:39

Oh, it totally is. I like how you just said that. Like, what's it gonna be? Oh, I think that's great.

Kaylen Nelson 8:45

I think virtue, too. Whenever I see virtue, we need to remember the virtuous power. And so immediately, what story am I going to? The woman with the issue of blood. He felt virtue go out of Him. But what do we need to remember about Jesus' virtue? It is infinite. She gets healed at His loss. Like, He feels it go out of Him. But it's infinite. And so like, He's in it, He's with it, He's experiencing it, but He can't run out. That makes my heart, you know, just flutter.

Tammy 9:16

Oh, I love that, because it says there's enough for everyone. I mean, that is grace right there. That is grace. Oh, Kaylen, that was really good. Hold, please. I have to write that.

Mandy Green 9:29

Anyway, that that principle in Proverbs 31 of the virtuous woman, right, the woman of power or the man of power. So, when you said that, I was thinking of how that's reflected in each of us as well, right? As heirs or people to tie ourselves to Him, you have access to that.

Tammy 9:50

How cool that what you both shared. I like what it starts with when it says "the reality of." We're not just talking about something that kind of maybe happened, or we've heard about, or we just read about. I mean, it's real; He is REAL; Jesus Christ lives. And He's coming. And that is what this is all about. And everyone needs Jesus. That's one of the things that I didn't learn until I was much older. I was so worried about offending people with Jesus, or if someone was struggling, or I had a child who was struggling. So I was like, well, we probably shouldn't read scriptures because it might offend her. And then I'm, I'm now realizing that everyone needs Jesus. That's the one thing we can talk about with everybody, I think. But it took me a long time to get there.

Mandy Green 10:31

Hashtag more Jesus.

Tammy 10:33

We're going to talk more Jesus. So let's do that. Okay, so in preparation for Christmas, and for the Old Testament, we are just going to be in the process of marking up our Living Christ, and kind of thinking about our own foundations. I want you to think about this question throughout our whole episode, because I'm going to ask this at the very end, is, What are you personally doing right now to build your foundation on Christ? That's what I want us to kind of answer when we get to the very end. And we're going to start studying more about Him in the next segment.

Segment 2 11:00

Tammy 11:08

We're just going to read the very first sentence of paragraph 2. And Mandy, will you read that for us. And as you read it, everyone listening, mark the names of Christ.

Mandy Green 11:15

"He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New."

Tammy 11:23

Okay, what are his names there?

Mandy Green 11:26

Jehovah and Messiah.

Tammy 11:27

All right, we have so much to say about these two names. And so it's really important for us to know them, and know where they come from and know what they mean. So, let's talk about them. First of all, we have Jehovah. I learned this from Mandy, so this is kind of fun. Mandy, just tell us about Jehovah, really. So I thought I'd just chuck that to you.

Mandy Green 11:46

Yeah, I'm glad I know this.

Tammy 11:49

Well, I felt like I could cuz you taught it to me. So carry on.

Mandy Green 11:52

Well, I am the notebook. So there's a very high possibility I've already forgotten what I told you, but I actually know this one. So it actually comes from Yahweh. Because you don't pronounce ever the name of Yahweh if you're Jewish. So what they did is they took the consonants of Yahweh, and then they interspersed the vowels of Adonai, which is My Lord. That's how we get YaHoWah. That's where it comes from. It's this kind of weird mix that shows up and so it's not even an actual name. But it is an actual name.

So, will those who are Jewish, practicing Jewish, will they say Jehovah? Can like, will they

No, they say Adonai or Hashem.

Hashem, "the name".

The Name. So

Kaylen Nelson 12:27

I knew they wouldn't say Yahweh, but I didn't know if Jehovah was the same.

Mandy Green 12:42

No, Jehovah is kind of like this Christian mix that shows up I think in the Middle Ages? Well,

Tammy 12:47

Well, and it's some, and what I have in my notes is that the Jewish practice developed sometime after 500 BC, where they said, We will never say the name Yahweh ever, out of complete respect. When the Bible was being translated into English, the translators, they came up with Jehovah. And so it's a very Christian name. Well, the Jews will not say Yahweh; they will say Adonai, or Hashem. And they won't even say God or write out God; they'll put a G with a dash, and then a D, in all of their writings as well. So I think it's pretty interesting. That name is so holy, and so sacred.

So let's just take a minut. I want us to go back to when we studied section 45 and we talked about how the Savior will show Himself to the Jews. And the wording in there that they use is so beautiful, go read section 45. But I think we've kind of misinterpreted that along the lines to think that the Savior is going to come back and sort of stick it to the Jews, like, 'I told you this is who I was. And you can see the nails in my hands and in my feet.' But when you consider the spelling of Yahweh, and Mandy, you taught this to me. I think it's one of the most beautiful and gracious moments that the Savior will have with the Jews. It's literally grace, because the spelling of Yahweh is so significant.

And I love that, Mandy, I love that you taught me this. It is spelled Yod Heh Vav Heh, and those letters are very symbolic. The Yod is the palm of a hand starting to close up. The Heh means to show or to reveal. The letter Vav is a nail or a peg, and it symbolizes being nailed to something. And then the Hey, again, at the end means to show or to reveal. And I just thought a ton about this. And I think what's so cool is that the way He spells His name - and has from the very beginning - is the literal embodiment of who He is and who these people have worshipped for so long. And so they'll see that and then they will know, Oh my gosh. You ARE who we've always worshipped. And the Savior - I just love how He says - 'And you are My friends.'

And we know from this year that that's a covenant word. So I just think there's something so beautiful in this name, Yahweh, and so sacred that it is not said by the Jews. And so the Christian translators came in and held to that, and now we use the name Jehovah. I just think it's amazing how God's like, I'm going to prep My people and forever they're going to call Me with what they'll see me by when it counts.

Mandy Green 15:09

Like markings are very, very sacred. There's a lot more to that but like that's the ultimate sign of devotion, to be marked, for those you love.

Tammy 15:20

Thank you. Okay Messiah, then, let's talk about this one. So it's an English word. Messiah is derived from the Hebrew word, Mashiah, Mashea - how do you say that?

Mandy Green 15:32

Mashach, hard H

Tammy 15:33

Oh, yeah. At the end, that's right, 'Mashiach'(k). And it means 'anointed'. So above that name, Messiah, just put 'anointed'. And what's neat is the equivalent in Aramaic is 'mashia'. And in Greek, it's 'Christos'. And so right there, Messiah means the anointed one. Okay, so those are the two names. Now let's just tackle as much as we can in paragraphs 2, and 3. You guys ready to do this?

Okay, here we go. I have a question for you, Kaylen. The second sentence that says,"Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth." How do you teach that to your students, when they're like, Wait a minute, God's the creator.

Kaylen Nelson 16:11

Sometimes I explain it to them with like, architecture and construction. When you're thinking of a construction site, God is, He's the guy in the white shirt and tie that's got the plan. And our Heavenly Parents are like, this is the plan, this is the goal. This is, this is the outcome we need and Jesus is the General Contractor. He's the one that's earned the right to be in the trailer with the fancy people. And He can look at the plans, He understands it. But then I also love about Jesus, He exits the trailer and He comes and works in the trenches with us, and helps us build it.

And so I think that we give Jesus the credit, because He's the one making it happen. But I think we have to recognize that like, our Heavenly Parents also have a part in that. It is their plan, but Jesus is the ultimate benevolent Son, in Him fulfilling that. It also gives us credit, we also are part of creation. We created, too, under the direction of Jesus Christ. And so I think that we need to also give ourselves a little bit of credit.

Mandy Green 17:11

I'm signing up, I'm going to go back to high schoo,l Kaylen.

Tammy 17:16

You get credit.

Kaylen Nelson 17:16

They don't appreciate me, they don't appreciate me like, (laughs)

Tammy 17:20

That was a great way to explain it, though, but you're absolutely right. That's how it works. And I do love, I mean, I've always loved teaching that we were also part of that creative process. There's so many great quotes to back that up, so, perfect explanation. Alright, keep going. Now, what are some other things you guys marked in these two paragraphs?

Mandy Green 17:38

I love this phrase "went about doing good". Like when I try to channel the Savior at all, Am I doing good? Not in a guilt Have you done any good in the world today? You suck. And what have you been singing in Sacramento Meeeting for? But in a truly like, goodness, He is goodness, and anything good would be a great reflection of Him.

Kaylen Nelson 18:02

I think it's interesting right after that, "yet was despised for it." I think sometimes we think, If I was the perfect Relief Society teacher or the perfect mother or the perfect whatever, then everyone would listen. And everyone would be obedient. I think there's so much of value for me to look at Jesus' example and say, He did it perfectly, and yet He was despised. And I can relate with that.

Tammy 18:29

Mmm, I like that.

Mandy Green 18:31

Yeah, that's awesome.

Tammy 18:31

Great application to us. Very good. For me, I had a real experience when I was reading paragraph 3, towards the very end where it says "He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind." And it struck me because I thought, There's no mention of Gethsemane anywhere in this whole thing. And so when I read that "He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind", I took like a good day, just thinking over that, over and over again. That's the one thing I just thought, Help me understand that because you talk about Calvary, there's no mention of Gethsemane, and it was just one of those real moments where you, you think on it, you ponder, you say a little prayer, like Heavenly Father, what do You mean by this?

And then you sit back down to study it later that day and it just came to, for me, the answer is, He gave His life - and I put like a little parentheses to each side of that - He gave His life beginning in Gethsemane when His life was no longer His. That was His complete moment of submission, atone for the sins of all mankind, so that we could have everything. And so I love that for me; that's where I found Gethsemane in this, The Living Christ.

Kaylen Nelson 19:41

Awesome.

Mandy Green 19:42

I would just add that the Greek there is actually "to make at one". For me, the Greek is to be at one with Him so I can bring you back with Me. Oh, it's like bringing the family back.

Tammy 19:57

Mandy, I am so glad that you pointed that out and I, you know what? Can I just say I'm sorry for interrupting you, but what you said just hit me and I'm on fire. There's a big difference between 'in behalf' and 'on behalf'. So I highlighted 'in behalf'; that's what you just said, 'for the benefit, for the advantage, in the interest of'. That's what in behalf means. And so it was for the benefit of us. There's nothing we have to give back. And then I circled all, "in behalf of all who would ever live". What does that tell us about His 'at one ment'?

Kaylen Nelson 20:26

It's incredible. Like, it's the scope. Like the scope is, I love all, I love all. Even Alma and Amulek talked about this in the Book of Mormon, when it talks about those who looked at the serpent; they didn't believe that it would heal them. And I think it's where you put the emphasis. You didn't believe that IT would heal them, or that it would heal THEM. Either they have doubt in Jesus, or they have doubt in themselves. I don't know if that makes sense what I'm trying to communicate, but like, but it'll work for you, and it'll work for Mandy, and it will work for everybody else, but it won't work for me. You don't doubt Jesus, you just doubt yourself, and Jesus' desire for you. But those all-inclusive, that 'all' word is like no, no, this works for everybody, but you have to look and live.

Tammy 21:15

She was worried that she wouldn't have anything to contribute.

Kaylen Nelson 21:18

I'm so sweating. (laughter)

Mandy Green 21:19

I know. I'm sitting here with my jaw dropping

Tammy 21:23

Honestly, Kalyen. Brilliant, complete. I love that you just tied that to that story. Good stuff.

Mandy Green 21:31

I just love what Kaylen had to say. I think we have this really horrible way of not giving ourselves any credit or being very self-critical.

Tammy 21:40

Yeah, and I love that

Mandy Green 21:41

Right there's the invitation.

Tammy 21:43

Yeah, that IT would heal them or that it would heal THEM. Wow, that's good.

Mandy Green 21:47

That was amazing.

Tammy 21:49

Great discussion. So in the next segment we are going to just jump into only two sentences. And it's such a short paragraph, but it really packs a punch, and Mandy's going to teach it, and I can't wait.

Segment 3 22:00

Tammy 22:10

Okay, here we go, Mandy. You ready? Okay. When I read this paragraph, I just immediately thought there is so much in these two sentences. And many of you know that Mandy really does have a gift for seeing what isn't easily seen. And so I'm so looking forward to what you have to teach us about this paragraph. So I'm just going to turn the time over to Mandy.

Mandy Green 22:28

Okay. Kalyen, would you read us the first sentence of paragraph 4?

Kaylen Nelson 22:33

Yeah, for sure. "We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary."

Mandy Green 22:44

Alright, so I think there's a really, really important principle at play in this entire paragraph, and that's that the Savior has gone through many, many eons of time to become who He is. And again, we tend to present-tense it and just talk about Him as a mortal. But I want to remind us that we're talking about a very cosmic God. And I'd love to read this quote from J. Reuben Clark, from his book Behold, the Lamb of God. Now, 'behold' is a great word, right, to really see, to really take it in.

Who is the Savior, this man that we worship? We tend to localize Him and think of Him as more or less as just belonging to us, that He is our Savior, though perhaps we don't know Him very well. I want to read you a few words from the book of Moses from the first chapter, and I'm going to begin at the 32nd verse. The speaker declares that He was the Lord God Almighty and Endless is My name. He was showing Moses as they stood and conversed face to face, the creation that the Father had commissioned Him to make, and He quotes the Father as saying,

32 "And by the word of my power, have I created the them, which is Mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

33 "And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten."

You're going to see that title a little bit further down in the verse. I want you to connect these two dots.

"For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power, [which is my only begotten Son.] And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them." J. Reuben Clark continues, "It was not a novice, not an amateur, not a being making a first trial, that came down in the beginning, after the great council with other gods, and searched out and found the place where there was 'space'", and taking of the materials which they found and organized this world and "worlds without number have I created through my Only Begotten Son.

"I repeat, our Lord is not a novice, he is not an amateur; He has been over this course time and time and time again. And if you think of this galaxy of ours having within it from the beginning until now, perhaps 1 million worlds, and multiply that by the number of millions of galaxies, that surround us, you will begin to get some view of who this Man we worship really is." (J. Reuben Clark) Ladies,

Tammy 25:33

I just, I need to just

Mandy Green 25:35

Thoughts?

Tammy 25:36

I need to sit with this for like a day. Oh, my gosh.

Kaylen Nelson 25:41

I can just imagine 17 teenagers going, pooooph! Like mind blown, you know?

Tammy 25:47

Me, my mind is blown.

Kaylen Nelson 25:50

I love that feeling. I love that feeling of grandeur. I love that feeling of this is bigger than me. Yet God still knows me. "They are numbered to me."

Tammy 26:03

Yeah, well, I

Mandy Green 26:04

Consider the lilies, right? Or, I know every sparrow that falls, and yet, to your point earlier, Kaylen of, I don't have faith that He can save ME? I mean, I hope that hit you like, uh, I can do so much more than you've ever dreampt. So, little lady. Tammy,

Tammy 26:25

My mind is so expanded right now, because we kind of just want to think, My Jesus, my creation, my earth, my atonement, and that just expanded it to millions creations, millions atonements. It's when He really says endless, and then He has all power, that just enlarges His capacity to have so much virtue. It really, I love that Kaylen brought that up. Like, His infinite virtue; it's not just infinite for us, it's infinite for all His creations that add to His power. I just, that is a GREAT quote. I love that you brought that.

Mandy Green 27:02

I know. Thank you, J. Reuben Clark, right? "And they're all numbered to me." And Tammy, would you read that last sentence?

Tammy 27:09

Oh absolutely. "He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world."

Mandy Green 27:17

I'm going to take a Greek take on the world because it's always usually translated as cosmos. And so our tendency is to try to take anything we learn and put it in our box. I would just, especially with the Lord, any of the gods, take your box and throw it up into the sky, and put it into this giant framework. And then you will start getting somewhere. Here's J. Reuben Clark backing that up, but just this magnificence of this Being that was actually begotten in the flesh in our world, which is mind-boggling in the opposite end of the scale, about the humility and the condescension of God. I just marvel at all of it.

Tammy 28:03

I mean, that's what's amazing, that he chose this earth. A kind of sense of entitlement almost, like, oh, look at us.

Mandy Green 28:10

I know. Well, it says something about the people who chose to come here, too. That's a whole nother podcast.

Tammy 28:19

Totally

Mandy Green 28:19

But the telestial world is not for chumps and all this was considered before you ever stepped foot on this planet, that this was all provided for, it was all taken care of. My favorite line of any scripture text is from the wisdom of Solomon, "Your peace was prepared before ever your war was." Like, if I think about the Savior, it's like, well He's taken care of every single outcome, every battle. And now you just come learn. And that's a cosmic thing.

Tammy 28:43

Wow, that's beautiful. Kaylen, you look like you have something to say.

Kaylen Nelson 28:58

For all the youth and seminary students out there, I just want to point out, when it talks about the First Born of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, First Born of the Father, that's a premortal title, because He is our spirit brother, and He is the eldest. But then we have this second title too, where He's the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, meaning that Heavenly Father is His biological as well as spiritual Father. And so this alludes to His Half mortality, half God, which gives Him power over death, but also power not to die. It really is talking about so much of His birthright as well as His His ultimate mission, and His need to be both kind of a Demigod if you will.

Tammy 29:40

Oh, I like how you just said His birthright. That's a great way to sum that up.

Mandy Green 29:45

I do, too. That's so Old Testament, right?

Tammy 29:48

love that, yep. T

Mandy Green 29:50

Here's the double portion. Here's the Chosen One, right? And First can mean first in station, or ability, or rank. So, I think it's a lot more than just like, 'I was born first.' It's like, 'I actually am the greatest, the top, the head, the most advanced, the most, as the one inherits the most.

Tammy 30:11

As kids would say: the goat.

Kaylen Nelson 30:15

It's also interesting in the Old Testament, how many and even in Book of Mormon Laman and Lemuel, how many times you've seen the Old Testament where the birthright son doesn't do his job? The birthright son, Rubin loses it, Esau loses it. And I think that that's interesting. When you watch them lose it, a) remember that there's somebody else to pick it up and it doesn't ruin the plan. But b) it should remind us that Jesus did not fail. He fulfilled His right as the firstborn. And so I think that that's really, really neat.

Tammy 30:47

Really neat, so, ah, so good. So good. Thank you, Mandy, you did it. You did, I mean you did beyond what I had hoped for, obviously. You always do that. You see what, what is not obviously seen. So thank you for teaching us that and for bringing that in. And so in there when it talks about how He neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary, that part 'concluded on Calvary', I want us to think for just a minute.

There's a great talk by Elder Uchtdorf, and it's called "Behold the Man" from 2018. Such a good talk. And in it he starts out by saying, "What day most changed the course of history?" And as he talks about that day, he talks about Gethsemane and Calvary, and everything that happened. And then he talks about the moments that led up to that, and how we have Pilate, who, his job was to collect taxes from Rome and keep the peace. And one day we have this Jewish Sanhedrin that brings before him a man who they claimed was anti-tax and anti-peace, who is Jesus Christ.

And so as the story goes, we know that Pilate announced that, You know, I find no fault in Jesus Christ, and he thought, Here's what I'll do, because it's Passover. So we have a tradition where I can let one person go, and he chooses the worst of the worst, right? He chooses Barabbas. And he puts him up against the Savior and all of the Jews cry aloud, Crucify Jesus Christ, like, let Barabbas go for free and we're gonna crucify Christ. And so in one last attempt to satisfy the mob, Pilate orders the men to scourge Jesus Christ. So they do it and they leave him and and this is what Elder Uchtdorf says: "They leave him bloodied and bruised, they mocked him, they placed a crown of thorns on his head, and they clothed him in a purple robe."

But here's what I love about this. In this story, as Elder Uchtdorf goes on, Pilate thought that this would totally satisfy the mob's lust for blood, and perhaps they would actually take pity on Jesus Christ, saying, "Behold, I bring him forth to you", is what Pilate said. And then Pilate says, at the end, "I find no fault in him. Behold the man." Now, here's what I want us to consider. And here's the meat of Elder Uchtdorf's talk. Kaylen, will you read this quote for us from the talk?

Kaylen Nelson 32:53

"The Son of God stood in the flesh before the people of Jerusalem. They can see Jesus, but they did not truly behold Him. They did not have eyes to see. In a figurative sense, we, too, are invited to behold the Man."

Tammy 33:07

Thank you, Kaylen. And I love how it ends, we "are invited to Behold the Man." So, in the next segment, Kaylen is going to guide us through three paragraphs that are going to help us do exactly that.

Segment 4 33:17

Tammy 33:22

Okay, so "Behold the man"; this is found in John chapter 19, verse 5. And the Greek word, I thought was so cool. The Greek word for 'behold' is 'horao'. How do you say that, Mandy? H-o-r-a-o.

Mandy Green 33:36

Horao.

Tammy 33:37

And it means to see, to look, but to experience. So we are going to see, look, and experience the Savior, Jesus Christ in paragraphs, 5, 6, and 7. And Kaylen is going to do that for us, so, hit it, sis; I'm so excited!

Kaylen Nelson 33:52

Well, I want to start by sharing just a personal experience, so, I think we all have things in our testimonies that we have to work hard for, and things that might come a little more naturally. My testimony of the Book of Mormon definitely came more naturally; I just, I knew. But my testimony of Jesus Christ was not; it was hard-fought. It took years of deconstruction, literally years into my 20s for me to say, Why? Because I would watch like "The Lamb of God" movie from like, you know, the 1980s?

Tammy 34:25

Oh, yeah, the old one.

Kaylen Nelson 34:26

And I couldn't even watch it because I just didn't, I couldn't relate. I could not comprehend who Jesus really was. I just like, He's perfect, and He's kind, and He's loving, and then sometimes he throws tables? Like I just, I looked out, I just there were so many things that like didn't connect. And what it really boiled down to was like, I couldn't comprehend perfection. And I didn't know what that meant for Jesus to be perfect, because I can't relate to perfect. And so one thing that really helped me was to see moments of humanity.

And so one of my favorite parts in paragraph 5, "He rose from the grave to become the first fruits of them that slept." But here's my favorite line, "As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life." How human is that? How human is that? Who does he choose to go to? Not the people that will make the biggest splash, not the people that can do the most for His advocacy or His, you know, who can get His message. He goes to those He loved. So my question to Mandy and Tammy is, What's something He experienced in His actual mortal life that you look at and say, He knows what I'm going through? Or I can be there with Him for that moment?

Tammy 35:42

Oh, that's a good question. You want to go, Mandy? I love that.

Kaylen Nelson 35:48

I'm pondering it.

Tammy 35:50

Yeah, me too.

Mandy Green 35:53

Like, conversely, I love when He throws tables,

Kaylen Nelson 35:56

right. It becomes my favorite story.

Mandy Green 36:00

Yeah, I actually feel moments of actual righteous rage where it's like, this should not go down. Ever. I like that, that He just calls the shot actually, maybe reveals a little too much of my personality, but I love that, you know? And moments earlier, He's weeping over Jerusalem. So I'm like, "How oft would I have gathered you?" Like, How many times are you just spending yourselves, trying to help others, and it's, it's not received? I mean, I can I can feel that, too. So,

Kaylen Nelson 36:33

Well, I think just remembering why He's turning over the tables. Yes, it's His Father's house, but like, He's thinking about the widow that throws in her two mites. And she's being manipulated and exposed and

Mandy Green 36:48

like, she has nothing. And she's offered it and they're using it to like, line their robes,

Kaylen Nelson 36:56

and Jesus seeing that? That's the Aslan moment for me. That's genuinely when Aslan helped me gain a testimony of Jesus. Because I watched Aslan be the defender. And who does he defend? Edmund, who screwed up. Edmund, you shouldn't have sold yourself for Turkish Delight; what were you thinking? But Jesus dies for him, and then redeems him, and fights the battle. And so I think sometimes we're worried that Jesus is turning over the tables in our lives. But He's not turning over the tables in my life; He's defending me; He's protecting me against my enemies. And so I'm in the, I agree. That story became one of my favorites.

Tammy 37:33

That's a good one. It's a great example. I love that you asked this question. I think it's a great question we can ask on social media, too, because I wonder what everybody's gonna say. Cuz I have so many, I mean, when you asked that I'm like, Oh, I don't know nothing, really. And then now I'm thinking about it, I'm like, Oh, wait. There are two moments for sure. One that became very real, was after I got married. As a stepmom, you kind of feel like you don't fit into the picture because there's somebody else who did before you.

Somebody pointed out to me that, I wonder if Joseph ever felt that way? And I didn't realize, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's kind of a blended family. He's kind of a stepdad in a way. He knew, because he had this great experience where he knew he was supposed to be in that scenario, but I wonder if he ever felt alone and what that was like, and, you know. Did Jesus ever say, Well, you're not my dad. I don't, you know, we know from Doctrine and Covenants 93, that He grew grace upon grace. So He wasn't, He didn't come out of the womb perfect. He had to figure things out as a kid.

I felt like I could relate to that. And then later on, it would be the, the widow of Nain, when, here she is so sad that her son is dead, and her husband's gone. And Jesus heals her son. And he's already been dead for three days, and He brings him back to life. But no words are spoken at all. He just knows her heart. And she doesn't have to ask for help; He just sees her tears, and he's and he's basically like, I can do this.

I have had so many moments like that in my life, where I don't have to say anything. He knows my heart and He's like, I can do this.

Kaylen Nelson 39:12

I love that.

Tammy 39:13

Yeah, those are my real moments. But I like the context where you said, what are His real moments that really make it real for us? That was a great question.

Kaylen Nelson 39:21

Well, and I have two. One that you just reminded me of. I don't know if Jesus ever said You're not my dad. But the best example of it is when Jesus is in the temple at 10, and His parents go to find Him. And, if you're in a split family or a divorced family, or, Jesus isn't - I know it's not divorce - but He's getting two sets of instructions. And He's trying to do both. And He's trying to please both, and He's coming up short. And you just see Jesus is torn.

So if you're a listener that is part of a mixed family and you feel like, maybe you're getting instructions from mom, and then next weekend you're at dad's, and it's different. And like, He gets that, in a way that's very, very personal. And I love that about Jesus, that there are mortal, yes Gethsemane, he gets it all. But I also love that we have the New Testament so we can pull up little moments and say, But this one? This one was like part of His mortality. And so, maybe a special connection there.

So the last one I want to share, is after John the Baptist is beheaded, Jesus wants to just go away and be at peace. And I'm like, Thank You, Jesus. Thank You, Jesus for just needing a break sometimes. The best part about Jesus is that He saw His compassion on the multitude, then heals their sick, then feeds the 5000, even though he wants to be alone. But the fact that He still craves and wants some me time, and He needs to heal, for me, I have found a lot of solace in that. Like, no, it's okay sometimes. It's okay sometimes to take a break.

Tammy 40:54

And to say to His apostles, to say to His disciples, 'I need to be alone. Like you guys, just stay here. It's gonna be okay. I'm gonna go take a little break.' I LOVE that.

Mandy Green 41:03

Well, at that moment, too, because He has a perfect understanding of how this all plays out. But it doesn't change how it feels.

Tammy 41:09

Right. He knows it's gonna be fine. Yes

Mandy Green 41:12

Like, it's so visceral. And it didn't change it for Him.

Tammy 41:16

He's so sad.

Mandy Green 41:17

And I think that's super comforting. Yes.

Tammy 41:20

He knows grief. Oh, I'm so glad you brought that story up, Kaylen.

Kaylen Nelson 41:24

There are so many good lines in the rest of this. I mean, we've only, I just, that's one of my favorite lines in the whole thing. He visited among those He had loved in life.

Tammy 41:33

Kaylen, it's the only thing I have marked, in that whole paragraph, I have that underlined. Alright, carry on Kaylen.

Kaylen Nelson 41:39

You're good. But one of the things that I was thinking about just looking at paragraph 6 and 7, the Brethren include this description of Jesus. And so one last thing that I just want to say is, what does that teach us about Him? And I think this is one of my favorite things about Jesus. This is a quote from D. Todd Christofferson,

"With confidence, we testify that the Atonement of Jesus Christ has anticipated, and in the end will compensate all deprivation and loss for those who turn to Him. No one is predestined to receive less than all the Father has for His children."

And so when I look at this description of Jesus, and you see Him perfected, and in His voice like the rushing of great waters, and His hair, and His, all of those things. And I just, what do you see? You see that Jesus lived a difficult mortal life, but now it's all been redeemed, and it's all been perfected. And I think that that becomes a type for us to say, No one is predestined to receive less than all that the Father has for His children.

Tammy 42:42

Kaylen, that was incredible. Thank you for giving us those insights. And as you are reading The Living Christ, make sure you study those paragraphs, because obviously, there's just not enough time. But I love what Kaylen taught us. And they are powerful as they describe what the Savior looks like, and who He is, and the testimony that is born of Him by Joseph Smith. It's so good. So thank you. Excellent job.

Okay, so here's what I want you to do, then. For us to go into the next segment, I want you to think about a way that you go about saying something that you really want people to believe. If you're trying to impress upon them something you're saying is true, is there a specific wording or quote that you use to convey your truth? And we're going to discuss that in the next segment.

Segment 5 43:21

Tammy 43:28

Okay, you guys, is there anything that you say when you mean that you're serious? Or when you're trying to get your kids attention? or your spouse's or anybody's?

Kaylen Nelson 43:35

I mean, it!

Tammy 43:37

I mean it! I'm serious.

Kaylen Nelson 43:38

I'm serious. I mean it.

Mandy Green 43:40

Serious. Like, the tone of, gravity.

Tammy 43:43

Oh, it's all about the tone, huh? For sure it's about the tone. We have a funny one in our family. And it's just from when I was a little kid, we would say, I would say, "I swear on the Holy Ghost Bible." I don't know why, but it just meant like, it was the most serious thing. You swear on the Holy Ghost Bible. And my friend Amy, she's been on the podcast before, she has the same thing. It was so funny when we met, we're like, I used to say that.

And I have to just tell you, my daughter, a couple of weeks ago, she was saying something to me, and I go, "Soph, are you telling me the truth?" And she goes, "Mom, I swear on the Holy Ghost Bible." And I was like, "Okay, you're telling me the truth, then." It's like the most serious thing (laughter)you could say in my family. I don't know why, it's so absurd.

And I asked you that question, because I was struck with these next two paragraphs, paragraph 8 and paragraph 9 with the way they start. Because I think they're trying to help us understand like, this is serious. So highlight both of the ways that they start. What is it saying there?

Mandy Green 44:38

"We declare"

Tammy 44:39

Yeah, "We declare". And how does paragraph 9 start?

Mandy Green 44:42

"We testify"

Tammy 44:44

That, right there. I mean, we are serious. That's what the 12, or 15 I should say. That's what the 15 are saying, We are serious. We are going to declare, which means to publish and proclaim. We are going to testifing, to bear witness, and to support the truth of what we're saying right here. And then we have these two paragraphs of what they're declaring and testifying about. And I just think it's powerful stuff. So let's jump into these. What did you mark that they're declaring and testifying of?

Mandy Green 45:10

Well, I love this "return to the earth", but, that "the glory of the Lord shall be revealed". We are so illiterate as to that, but imagine this creator of millions and millions of galaxies coming in His glory. Like I know people who is like, How's this fire gonna start? I'm like, uh, glory! Like glory like that will torch telestial matter. It will not exist, right?

Tammy 45:36

What is that word in Hebrew?

Mandy Green 45:37

Celestial matter can take the heat. And so glory is like, we think of it as like, Whoooooa, sorry, I have a really bad singing voice, but um. It's weight, His ability to bear weight, which I think absolutely goes back to get Gethsemane; absolutely goes back to His role as Redeemer; the one who has the ability to lift and carry the greatest weight of the cosmos. And so, I'm kind of stoked for that. I don't care if I torch; I just want to see the glory of the Lord revealed, like, sign me up.

Kaylen Nelson 46:10

Yeah,

Mandy Green 46:11

Sign me up.

Tammy 46:12

And in that when it says that word 'all', "all flesh will see it together". Not just a few of us, not just the invited; everybody is going to see that glory. And I think we'll feel it, right? I think it'll be a physical,

Mandy Green 46:24

But he's like a cosmic being, like, imagine, we tend to picture Him as mortal Jesus, but He's probably much grander and bigger. Here's a little ancient tidbit. So, the reason they would build these big, huge statues? They were actually trying to represent on a very tiny scale, the scale of gods. So, again, take yourself out of yourself and think of like, something hugely gigantic cosmic; how else is all flesh going to see it? Well, it's that visible.

Tammy 46:59

It will be a huge experience for everyone. Oh, I like that alot, Mandy.

Kaylen Nelson 47:04

I think my favorite part is "rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords". Like, Jesus will be the most fantastic leader, and He will reign. And I look forward so much to that day when, when the political structure that we have - as good as it is, the constitution, whatever - I'm so excited to just toss it and join the monarchy because, well, the theocracy, I guess, but you know, I, you know, for Jesus to be the King. Like I'm in, because that world is the world that I want to be a part of.

Tammy 47:37

Well, and I love the way it's worded. It doesn't say that He will rule as a King and reign as a Lord. It's the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords. Like, of all the kings that have ever been, of all the Lords that have ever existed, it goes back to the very best, what we talked about. The greatest of all time in that position. So, oh I like, Kaylen, how you said that "I'm all in, I want Him to be my leader." So good.

I love the end of paragraph 9. "Each (of us) will stand to be judged of Him according to our works, and (highlight that), and the desire of our hearts." That's one of my favorite scriptures to send seminary students to, Doctrine and Covenants section 137, where it says that we'll be judged on our works and the desires of our hearts. And I think that the desire of our hearts will save a lot of us. I know it's gonna save me. My heart center is so good. But the the action is, probably doesn't match up. So I'm so grateful that that, it's not just your works, He's going to take into account your heart and I'm so grateful for that.

Kaylen Nelson 48:36

It reminds me of 2 Nephi 9:41, that Jesus is the keeper of the gate and He employeth no servant there. The Holy One of Israel, that doesn't see Jesus. If He can judge you based on the desires of your heart, why does He employee no servant there? Because nobody else can give the grace that He can give.

Tammy 48:52

Ah, no one else can do the job.

Kaylen Nelson 48:54

No one else can do the job.

Tammy 48:55

That's incredible. I love that.

Mandy Green 48:58

Conversely, I feel prompted to say that perhaps some of you've been misjudged, or perhaps you had a leader who wasn't looking on the heart, right? And I've experienced that myself. And it's been really hard. And I hear you, and just know that the Lord is the perfect judge. That's just like a beautiful, redemptive lifesaver.

Tammy 49:25

Beautiful. Thank you so much. So, so good. Okay, well, we're gonna then tackle the last paragraph. And what I love about this is we're gonna study what 15 men in complete unanimity have to say about Jesus Christ, and we'll do that in the next segment.

Segment 6 49:41

Tammy 49:49

So I asked you both ahead of time, if there was a specific name or title of Christ that is your favorite. Do you have one that you just love? One of my favorite ones is 'Captain of their salvation.' That's in Hebrews chapter 2, verse 10. I just really like that, like just this idea that He's a captain, but He's a captain over our salvation. And I love The Sound of Music, Captain von Trapp. And just, he's just in charge. And I mean, he's also kind of mean, but in the end softens. But that's not what I like. I just like people look to him, and he knows how to take care of the situation. He has the answers. That's what a captain does. And you look to him for guidance, and he's there on the voyage, and he knows the direction to go. And so I just, I love that one, 'the Captain of their salvation'.

Kaylen Nelson 50:32

My favorite is 'The Good Shepherd'. That's one of my favorite titles of Jesus Christ. And it reminds me of the Minerva Teichert painting, where He's got the black sheep. All the other ones are white, and the black sheep has all sorts of connotations, culturally of the rebel or the one that's difficult, or the lost sheep. I love that He is a seeker and a finder, and a defender of the faith.

Tammy 50:33

God one, such a good one. What about you, Mandy?

Mandy Green 51:04

K, mine's, gonna be really different. But I just got back from Egypt. And my mind is just racing with all of this Christ imagery. And there's a title there called sokar. It's, sokar is a bird. And it represents Christ. And sokars are actually wrapped up in mummy wrappings. And then he bursts the bands, and he ascends. And I saw this glyph on a temple wall. And it is, just burned in my mind of sokar, right at that moment, where he absolutely, just like, burst those bands, and goes up. To me, Sokar has become a sacred title of the Lord and all I can see is that beautiful moment of bursting those bands.

Tammy 52:00

That must have been amazing to see on that temple wall.

Mandy Green 52:02

It's sublime. I honestly don't have the words. I probably didn't even begin to do that justice. It's just

Tammy 52:10

Do you have a picture of it? Were you allowed to take a picture?

Mandy Green 52:13

Uh, Yeah, I hope I can find.

Tammy 52:14

Oh, I'd love I see that.

Mandy Green 52:15

Yeah, I know. We should put it in our notes?

Tammy 52:17

Yeah, please. I'd love to have that in our show notes. That's incredible.

Kaylen Nelson 52:21

Where did sokar come from? Is it their name? Does that makes sense? Like,

Mandy Green 52:25

Uh huh. So people believe that Egyptians worshipped animals; nothing could be further from the truth. Certain animals were used to depict certain gods or goddesses because of the power and aspect of them that was represented. Sokar is a representation of this bird, this ability to go higher than any other being - this rising, this ascension, this lifting. It's gorgeous.

Tammy 52:25

Wow. That's incredible, so good. Thank you, both of you for your names. And I'd love to know what everybody else has to say. And so I'm going to ask that on Instagram and Facebook this week, is Do you have a favorite name or title for Jesus Christ, one that is significant to you? Because I think it's incredible how of all the names and titles in paragraph 10, the last paragraph, they're going to use specific titles or names to describe Him. And I love how they say we are going to bear testimony as his duly ordained apostles, and here are all the things that He is. So just get a marker or highlighter and mark this.

Mandy, start us out, and will you read the first two sentences.

"We bear testimony, as His duly ordained apostles - that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father."

And Kaylen, will you finish for us.

Kaylen Nelson 53:50

"He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son."

Tammy 54:04

I mean, so many titles, so many names attributed to him. What are some of the ones that stood out to you? What did you mark in there?

Mandy Green 54:13

I love Immanuel. God is with us, I mean

Tammy 54:16

We just have, break that word down in Hebrew; I do love Immanuel and what it means in Hebrew.

Mandy Green 54:22

Yeah, so 'Im' is with; 'Nu', us; 'El', God. So God is with us. Just this beautiful, in mortality, in eternal life, in any state or time or place. Love it.

Tammy 54:39

And especially when you're like, He is the great King, God who is with us. I just, I mean, who else do, you don't want anyone else on your team back. That's it right there. I just think it's incredible. I love that. I have that marked for sure. Keep going. What else do you have?

Kaylen Nelson 54:54

I also think "His duly ordained apostles". Duly. I looked it up: 'in accordance with what is required or appropriate, following proper procedure.' That's fascinating, that they're like, We can say this because we have been properly, procedurally put in place like, this is our job. Our job is to be special witnesses. They never brandish it like, We have seen Jesus. But if we're paying attention, we need to recognize like, they can say this because they know. They picked these titles because these are the ones that they know about Him.

Tammy 55:30

Oh, I totally agree. That's what stood out to me in this that, I felt like they were so specific in the titles and words they used to associate with Christ. I love "the immortal Son of God. And looking at the word immortal, you're like, Oh, yeah, He lives forever. But in Greek, I looked up that word, and it's aphthartos. A p h t h a r t o s. How do you say that Mandy?

Mandy Green 55:53

Aphthartos.

Tammy 55:55

Oh, I did it. I always like, I'm on if I'm saying it right. Okay, here we go.

Kaylen Nelson 55:59

Mandy knows.

Tammy 56:00

And yes, yeah. Mandy does know. Aphthartos, yes. And I just thought it was so cool, because it means undecaying, imperishable, indestructible, and incorruptible. It means more than just living forever. The scope of that word is huge. He is the incorruptible Son of God, the indestructible Son of God. Of course they picked that title for this last paragraph. So good.

Kaylen Nelson 56:25

Can I ask a question? The Living Christ. Is that anywhere in scripture? I can't think of a place. And so I'm like, Is this THEIR title? This is a title that they give the document? I don't know. Is that what you understand?

Tammy 56:38

Yeah, it is unique to this document, which by the way, will be 22 years old, in a week, on January 1st. 2000 is when we got this, so it'll be 22 years old next week. And it is, it is unique to us. Isn't that so incredible? The Living Christ. A lot of similarities in scripture, but nothing specific that says The Living Christ. Why does that stand out to you, Kaylen?

Kaylen Nelson 57:02

So as I'm looking at The Living Christ, and I'm talking about duly ordained apostles, I'm like, yeah, why did they pick these titles? And then I'm thinking, I don't know that title from anywhere else. So, do we trust that they can testify that He is alive? I choose to read into that; I choose to say these men know Jesus, and I am confident that they do. And I trust that they are His duly ordained apostles, and they claim He's living and so I trust them. Yeah, I think that's why it stands out.

Tammy 57:29

And as you just said that, that we can trust that they know He is living, like I felt that. That was powerful at that moment and it's been so cool today, because as we have talked about Jesus, we have felt the spirit throughout this whole episode. We have felt the feelings of love, joy, peace, long-suffering, goodness. Oh my gosh, how much goodness was felt. And I felt that when you said, "He is living." He really is living. That is a specific, important title that they gave Him in this last paragraph, with all the others. Thank you, Kaylen, for pointing that out. That's awesome. Any other words?

Mandy Green 58:05

Well, we've got this beautiful chiasm of 'matchless' again, right? That's what was at the beginning of the document and the end.

Tammy 58:11

Yes. "God be thanked".

Mandy Green 58:13

Like uncomparable gift. Unfathomable, unmatched gift of His divine God-like, Son. And what a beautiful title as far as a familial title, a member of the family, you know. This, My Beloved Son. I mean, anytime He's recognized by deity, it's as the Son. And that should just tell you something about what we're part of.

Tammy 58:46

Mandy, thank you so much for sharing your testimony of that. And thank you for teaching us about the bookends of this document. That is so cool, I'd never considered that. So I'm going back to the question I asked at the beginning. Is there something specific that you do to build your foundation on Jesus Christ? Or, is there a goal you're going to set to do it next year as you study the Old Testament? And I want us to think about that. In your journals, take a minute and write that down, set that as a goal. In fact, I love this quote by President Nelson, in October of 2021 General Conference. In his talk, "Make Time for the Lord., this is what he said. Kaylen, will you read this for us, please.

Kaylen Nelson 59:25

"My brothers and sisters, I plead with you to make time for the Lord. Make your own spiritual foundation firm and able to stand the test of time by doing those things that allow the Holy Ghost to be with you always."

Tammy 59:38

So, my challenge to everyone is to take a minute to think of a goal and write it down. Or, throughout this week kind of ask yourself that question, What will I do this year in 2022 to make time for the Lord, to have my foundation be Him? Is there anything that either one of you have done specifically to do that?

Kaylen Nelson 59:58

I think one thing that I want to do is let God prevail and consider what does it look like to let Jesus win. And I look at Jesus' example of "not my will, but Thine be done" and me trying this year to trust that His way is better than mine. That's a thing that needs to happen for me.

Tammy 1:00:20

Is there anything specific that you wrestle with in letting God win in your life that you would be willing to share? Can you think of a specific one?

Kaylen Nelson 1:00:29

Very specifically, for my husband and I, we have been struggling to have kids for years and years and years and years. And we have had many failed fertility treatments. I just found out yesterday that my fourth round of IVF was unsuccessful. And those, that is alot.

Tammy 1:00:53

Yeah, it is.

Kaylen Nelson 1:00:52

I'm a little, I am a little heavy today, but I just, it's a lot. I know I'm not old, but I'm 32. And women have a biological clock. And so we are on a timeframe and, and so when we talk about God's timing, and we talk about letting him win, when I am like, Yeah, but you don't understand, don't you under? He made me, He knows, He gets it. But like, it really is, um, it's so, it's so hard to trust that He has more in store for you than you do. And so I think it's recognizing that my work and my glory is to do whatever my Heavenly Parents tell me to do. And so, specifically, next year is going to be another year full of, I'm sure, heartbreak and hopefully in success, but it's recognizing that it's in God's hands. And so, me just really trying to turn that over to Him.

Tammy 1:01:49

Kaylen, thank you for sharing that personal experience. There was power behind your story, when you said, "Letting God win." I appreciate you willing to be vulnerable with that, thank you so much. Oh, that's good. What about you, Mandy?

Mandy Green 1:02:04

I'm just in awe of Kaylen. You're not talking out of your mouth, Kaylen. That's the real, that's the trenches; I just feel so much love for you. I think for me, I think we have a lot of things that are truly eternally and spiritually significant. And then there's a lot of things organizationally, or culturally that are not. And just when I ask that question, where's the Savior in this? If He's in it, great. Let's pick it up, and let's dive in, and let's, let's do it. And if He's not, then let's let that stuff go. The foundation has to be in Jesus Christ. It has to be in this eternal, amazing matchless gift. I think if we're anchoring everything back into that, the rock of our salvation, that foundation, it will hold.

It is my experience that that holds up against anything, and absolutely everything. And that other things crumble; they can't handle that type of weight or scrutiny or glory. And so my goal is to always find Him and to the things where I find Him that those anchors are pounded in.

Tammy 1:03:20

Thank you, Mandy. I'm so glad you shared that because I just learned something I needed to learn when the Spirit said, "Yeah, you know what, Tam? You're gonna find Jesus in the Old Testament; I meant that for you, to find Jesus in your personal relationships, and in all the people that you know and love. I think that might be where I have a crack in my foundation. So, thank you for sharing that. Thank you, both of you. And for the spirit that's been here today as we've talked about Jesus. What a great episode. Okay, gather your thoughts, and share with us what your takeaway was.

Mandy Green 1:03:51

I think I love this line, "He went about doing good yet was despised for it." I'm going to erase the expectation that light does not encounter opposition. And if I get lit up, or if I get despised, if I am to get despised, if I am despised, I'm the best company there is, like just let all that stuff go.

Kaylen Nelson 1:04:20

I think that my takeaway is recognizing in 2nd Nephi chapter 4 when Nephi is lamenting his weaknesses, and he says, "Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted." And for me through our conversation, it's remembering these characteristics, these qualities, these attributes of Jesus. It's remembering that He, He is the one that's my judge, He is the one that has "the final say". He's the one that's my advocate, and despite my flaws and my weaknesses, and my trials, I know in whom I have trusted. And that brings me hope.

Mandy Green 1:04:56

Beautiful takeaway, Kaylen.

Tammy 1:04:57

Thank you so much. Mine is our discussion at the very beginning going back to the, or that first paragraph, the word 'matchess. I love how it began and end with matchless, and I love that you pointed that out Mandy. And then Kaylen, when you talked about the infinite virtue, and how there's enough for everyone. And that was for me, I was like, Oh my gosh, that is grace. And it's not a piece of, it's not a pie, where you take your piece, and there's a little bit less for somebody else. Like, it's infinite. So I loved our discussion on matchless and infinite virtue. So many good things. So thank you. Thank you, both of you for joining me and teaching me today. That was incredible.

Mandy Green 1:04:57

Thank YOU, ladies.

Tammy 1:05:28

Whew, so strong. So, I love you, ladies.

Kaylen Nelson 1:05:38

Love you guys.

Tammy 1:05:40

Well, I just have to end by saying, it has been such a privilege to study the Doctrine and Covenants with you this year. I mean, honestly, you guys, we learned so much. And I for one, have come to love church history in a whole new way. I mean, we just dove so deep into Doctrine and Covenants and studied it. And I've loved every message that every one of you have sent to me. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And now it's no secret, we know, I love the Old Testament. And I am looking so forward to starting that book.

So, make sure you guys have everything ready next week, because it's coming up - December 27th - we are going to hit the ground running and I cannot wait! So, get your Old Testament; I have a journal edition so my margins are wide. I've got marking pencils, I have a journal, I am ready to go. And I can't wait for you guys to join me.

I want you to kind of now take a minute and think about what your takeaway was from today's episode, and I want to hear what it was. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, just go do it. And take a minute to just kind of type it out and share with us what your takeaway was. And a lot of times people do it throughout the week, which you're welcome to do. Or, on Saturday, we post a call for your big takeaway. So comment on the post that relates to this specific lesson and let us know what you've learned. And I read all of them. And I know I'm going to love reading the ones you have to share from today. We talked about Jesus!

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. And if you go there, you can also find the links to all the references we used today, as well as a complete transcript of this entire discussion. So go check that out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus Original and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today, our beautiful study your participants were Kaylen Nelson and Mandy green. And you can find more information about these women at LDS living.com/sundayonMonday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me; it is recorded and mixed by Mix at Six Studios; and our Executive Producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We will see you next week.

And please remember, as we've said throughout this entire year: You Really Are God's Favorite.