41: “There Could Not Be a Happier People” (3 Nephi 27–4 Nephi)
There is no doubt that 2020 has been full of physical and emotional challenges, some of which have had profound global effects. But what if there was a good challenge that could come out of this year? Something that would help you grow spiritually and maybe even change your life? In this week’s lesson, we’re going to dig into 3 Nephi 27–4 Nephi to uncover a spiritual challenge based on these chapters that will help bring you closer to Christ.
Books Referenced in this Episode:
Verse by Verse, the Book of Mormon Volume 2: Alma 30 - Moroni 10 by Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner
Saints, Vol. 1:The Standard of Truth, 1815–1846 by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Of One Heart by Elder Neal A. Maxwell
Not My Will, but Thine by Neal A. Maxwell
Segment 1:
What was the question the people had for the Savior and what was the Savior's answer?
3 And they said unto him: Lord, we will that thou wouldst tell us the aname whereby we shall call this church; for there are disputations among the people concerning this matter (3 Nephi 27:3).
7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.
8 And how be it amy bchurch save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel (3 Nephi 27:7–8).
Quote: “For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the “Mormon Church.” But we as members of the Lord’s Church know who stands at its head: Jesus Christ Himself. Unfortunately, many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon. Not so! We honor and respect that great ancient American prophet. But we are not Mormon’s disciples. We are the Lord’s disciples" (President Russell M. Nelson, "The Correct Name of the Church," ChurchofJesusChrist.org ).
Who began this "company"?
Quote: “To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us—even His Atonement" (President Russell M. Nelson, "The Correct Name of the Church," ChurchofJesusChrist.org ).
5 Have they not read the scriptures, which say ye must take upon you the aname of Christ, which is my name? For by this name shall ye be called at the last day; (3 Nephi 27:5).
10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.
11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, "and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are ahewn down and cast into the bfire, from whence there is no return.
12 For their works do afollow them, for it is because of their works that they are hewn down; therefore remember the things that I have told you (3 Nephi 27:10–12).
Quote: "Taking the Savior’s name upon us includes declaring and witnessing to others—through our actions and our words—that Jesus is the Christ. Have we been so afraid to offend someone who called us “Mormons” that we have failed to defend the Savior Himself, to stand up for Him even in the name by which His Church is called?" (President Russell M. Nelson, "The Correct Name of the Church," ChurchofJesusChrist.org ).
What is the blessing that comes from using the name The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
Quote: “My dear brothers and sisters, I promise you that if we will do our best to restore the correct name of the Lord’s Church, He whose Church this is, will pour down His power and blessings upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints, the likes of which we have never seen. We will have the knowledge and power of God to help us take the blessings of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and to prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord.
"So, what’s in a name? When it comes to the name of the Lord’s Church, the answer is 'Everything!' Jesus Christ directed us to call the Church by His name because it is His Church, filled with His power” (President Russell M. Nelson, "The Correct Name of the Church," ChurchofJesusChrist.org ).
Challenge: Declare affiliation with Christ's Church without being bold or overbearing.
Segment 2:
Who should we want to be like?
27 And know ye that aye shall be bjudges of this people, according to the judgment which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what cmanner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even das I am (3 Nephi 27:27).
How do we become like Jesus?
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my agospel; and ye know the things that ye must bdo in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do; (3 Nephi 27:21).
Quote: “The only measure of true greatness is how close a man can become like Jesus. That man is greatest who is most like Christ, and those who love him most will be like him” (Ezra Taft Benson, "Listen to a Prophet’s Voice," October 1972 general conference).
What is the benefit of becoming Christlike?
30 And now, behold, my joy is great, even unto fulness, because of you, and also this generation; yea, and even the Father rejoiceth, and also all the holy angels, because of you and this generation; for anone of them are lost.
31 Behold, I would that ye should understand; for I mean them who are anow alive of bthis generation; and none of them are lost; and in them I have fulness of cjoy (3 Nephi 27:30–31).
Quote: “Life is filled with detours and dead ends, trials and challenges of every kind. Each of us has likely had times when distress, anguish, and despair almost consumed us. Yet we are here to have joy? Yes! The answer is a resounding yes! But how is that possible? And what must we do to claim the joy that Heavenly Father has in store for us?
"Saints can be happy under every circumstance. We can feel joy even while having a bad day, a bad week, or even a bad year! My dear brothers and sisters, the joy we feel has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives” (President Russell M. Nelson, "Joy and Spiritual Survival," October 2016 general conference).
Quote: "Just as the Savior offers peace that 'passeth all understanding,' He also offers an intensity, depth, and breadth of joy that defy human logic or mortal comprehension" (President Russell M. Nelson, "Joy and Spiritual Survival," October 2016 general conference).
Quote: "This fullness of Joy is the fullness of God’s plan, his work and his glory: immortality and eternal life- to be like Jesus and the Father" (Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner Verse by Verse The Book of Mormon Vol.2, Deseret Book, pg. 225).
Challenge: What is one thing that you can do to show your love for Christ?
Segment 3:
1 And it came to pass when Jesus had said these words, he spake unto his disciples, one by one, saying unto them: What is it that ye adesire of me, after that I am gone to the Father? (3 Nephi 28:1).
What did the disciples ask for?
2 And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom.
3 And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are aseventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my bkingdom; and with me ye shall find crest (3 Nephi 28:2–3).
6 And he said unto them: Behold, I aknow your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which bJohn, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me.
7 Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall anever taste of bdeath; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the cpowers of heaven.
8 And ye shall never endure the pains of death; but when I shall come in my glory ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from amortality to bimmortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father (3 Nephi 28:6–8).
What did Jesus say would happen to these three disciples?
9 And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the asins of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bbring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.
10 And for this cause ye shall have afulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are bone; (3 Nephi 28:9–10).
What's the difference between transfiguration and translation?
15 And whether they were in the body or out of the body, they could not tell; for it did seem unto them like a atransfiguration of them, that they were changed from this body of flesh into an immortal state, that they could behold the things of God (3 Nephi 28:15).
Transfiguration: "The condition of persons who are temporarily changed in appearance and nature—that is, lifted to a higher spiritual level—so that they can endure the presence and glory of heavenly beings” (Guide to the Scriptures, “Transfiguration,” scriptures.churchofjesuschrist.org; see also D&C 67:11; Moses 1:11).
Translated Beings: “Persons who are changed so that they do not experience pain or death until their resurrection to immortality” (Guide to the Scriptures, “Translated Beings,” scriptures.churchofjesuschrist.org; see also 3 Nephi 28:7–9, 20–22, 37–40).
What happened to the three Nephites?
39 Now this change was not equal to that which shall take place at the last day; but there was a change wrought upon them, insomuch that Satan could have no power over them, that he could not atempt them; and they were bsanctified in the flesh, that they were choly, and that the powers of the earth could not hold them (3 Nephi 28:39).
30 And they are as the aangels of God, and if they shall pray unto the Father in the name of Jesus they can show themselves unto whatsoever man it seemeth them good.
31 Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them, before the agreat and coming day when all people must surely stand before the judgment-seat of Christ; (3 Nephi 28:30–31).
Quote: "The three Nephites’ bodies were changed from the regular mortal or telestial condition to a terrestrial condition, where there is no death, pain, sickness, or temptation. Other words we use to describe this state are transfigured, which is short term, and translated, which is long term. We also use the words quickened, renewed, and paradisiacal. All of these words also describe the way the earth will be during the Millennium. During the Millennium or at the end of the Millennium these kinds of bodies, and the earth itself, will shift from the terrestrial state up to a celestial glory.
“'Those who were translated before the resurrection of our Lord ‘were with Christ in his resurrection’ (D&C 133:55.) Those who have been translated since the resurrection of Christ shall continue to live as mortals until the Second Coming when they shall receive their immortal glory.'
"The Prophet Joseph Smith explained the doctrine of translation: 'Many have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God, and into an eternal fullness, but this is a mistaken idea. Their place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order, and a place prepared for such characters He held in reserve to be ministering angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fullness as those who are resurrected from the dead.' On another occasion, he confirmed, 'Translated bodies are designed for future missions'” (Kelly Ogden, Andrew C. Skinner, Verse by Verse, the Book of Mormon Volume 2: Alma 30–Moroni 10, 3 Nephi 28, Deseret Book).
David Whitmer and the Three Nephites:
David wanted to go to Harmony immediately, but his father reminded him that he had two days of heavy work to do before he could leave. It was planting season, and David needed to plow twenty acres and enrich the soil with plaster of paris to help their wheat grow. His father said he ought to pray first to learn if it was absolutely necessary to leave now.
David took his father’s advice, and as he prayed, he felt the Spirit tell him to finish his work at home before going to Harmony.
The next morning, David walked out to the fields and saw rows of dark furrows in ground that had been unplowed the evening before. Exploring the fields further, he saw that about six acres had been plowed overnight, and the plow was waiting for him in the last furrow, ready for him to finish the job.
David’s father was astonished when he learned what had happened. “There must be an overruling hand in this,” he said, “and I think you had better go down to Pennsylvania as soon as your plaster of paris is sown.”
David worked hard to plow the remaining fields and prepare the soil for a successful planting. When he finished, he hitched his wagon to a strong team of horses and set out for Harmony earlier than expected" (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Saints, Vol. 1: The Standard of Truth, 1815-1846, "Fellow Saints," Deseret Book).
David's conversation with his sister about who plowed the field:
“Why said she in surprise you sowed it all yesterday at it was all sown by some one for the children came and begged me to go out and look at some men that were sowing plaster in the field for said they Mother you never saw anybody sow plaster as fast as they do in your life I went and I did see three men to work in the field as the children said but supposing that you had employed some assistance and because of your hurry to get your work done I passed into the house without giving any further attention to the subject. David made considerable enquiry but not being able to ascertain who had done it he related the circumstance to his Father who was quite as much at a loss to determine how the thing was brought about as he was but there was not a doubt upon the minds one of the family of there being an exertion of supernatural power connected with the operation and all hands went about preparing David (Lucy Mack Smith, "Lucy Mack Smith, History, 1844–45," book 8, josephsmithpapers.org, pg. 8)
Segment 4:
1 And now behold, I say unto you that when the Lord shall see fit, in his wisdom, that these sayings shall acome unto the Gentiles according to his word, then ye may know that the bcovenant which the Father hath made with the children of Israel, concerning their restoration to the clands of their inheritance, is already beginning to be fulfilled (3 Nephi 29:1).
- "These sayings" = Book of Mormon
2 And ye may know that the words of the Lord, which have been spoken by the holy prophets, shall all be fulfilled; and ye need not say that the Lord adelays his coming unto the children of Israel.
3 And ye need not imagine in your hearts that the words which have been spoken are vain, for behold, the Lord will remember his covenant which he hath made unto his people of the house of Israel (3 Nephi 29:2–3).
What is the warning in 3 Nephi 29?
4 And when ye shall see these sayings coming forth among you, then ye need not any longer spurn at the doings of the Lord, for the asword of his bjustice is in his right hand; and behold, at that day, if ye shall spurn at his doings he will cause that it shall soon overtake you (3 Nephi 29:4).
- Spun: To kick; to drive back or away, as with the foot. To reject with disdain; to scorn to receive or accept (see Webster's 1828 Dictionary).
- Wo = Grief, sorrow, or utter destruction.
Wo Oracle: A prophecy or statement of impending anguish, misery, and judgment to warn the wicked; characteristically includes an accusation, the addressee, the intent of the accusation and the promise of judgment.
5 aWo unto him that bspurneth at the doings of the Lord; yea, wo unto him that shall cdeny the Christ and his works!
6 Yea, awo unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord, and that shall say the Lord no longer worketh by revelation, or by prophecy, or by bgifts, or by tongues, or by healings, or by the power of the Holy Ghost!
7 Yea, and wo unto him that shall say at that day, to get again, that there can be bno miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become clike unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy, according to the word of Christ!
8 Yea, and ye need not any longer ahiss, nor bspurn, nor make game of the cJews, nor any of the remnant of the house of Israel; for behold, the Lord remembereth his covenant unto them, and he will do unto them according to that which he hath sworn (3 Nephi 29:5–8).
What advice is in 3 Nephi 30:2?
2 Turn, all ye aGentiles, from your wicked ways; and brepent of your evil doings, of your clyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your dmurders, and your epriestcrafts, and your fenvyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be gnumbered with my people who are of the house of Israel (3 Nephi 30:2).
Challenge: Of the five sins listed in 3 Nephi 30:2 (lying and deceivings, secrete combinations, idolatries, priestcrafts, and envyings) find that one you tend to do the most and do your best to overcome that.
Segment 5:
The who, when, where, and why of 4 Nephi:
Who: Mormon compiled and abridged the records of four writers to create the book of 4 Nephi. The first of these was Nephi, for whom the book was named. Nephi was the son of Nephi, who was one of the twelve disciples chosen by the Lord during His ministry among the descendants of Lehi (see 3 Nephi 11:18–22; 12:1). The other three authors were Nephi’s son Amos and Amos’s sons Amos and Ammaron (see 4 Nephi 1:19, 21, 47).
Why: Mormon did not address the book of 4 Nephi to a particular audience, and he did not state why he wrote it. However it does teach us about the blessings that come to people who repent, come unto Jesus Christ, and make covenants with Him. It also shows the destructive consequences that occur when people deny the Savior and His gospel and forsake their covenants.
When and Where: The original records used as sources for the book of 4 Nephi were likely written between AD 34 and AD 321. Mormon abridged those records sometime between AD 345 and AD 385. Mormon did not say where he was when he compiled this book.
- The book of 4 Nephi covers nearly 300 years, almost a one-third of the entire Nephite history.
What was 4 Nephi such a peaceful time?
2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another (4 Nephi 1:2).
3 And they had aall things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly bgift (4 Nephi 1:3).
What is the "heavenly gift"?
5 And there were great and marvelous works wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did aheal the sick, and braise the dead, and cause the lame to walk, and the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear; and all manner of cmiracles did they work among the children of men; and in nothing did they work miracles save it were in the name of Jesus (4 Nephi 1:5).
8 Yea, even that great acity Zarahemla did they cause to be built again (4 Nephi 1:8).
- In Hebrew, "Zara" means seed and "Hemla" means compassion.
What were the people doing during this time?
11 And they were married, and given in marriage, and were blessed according to the multitude of the apromises which the Lord had made unto them.
12 And they did not walk any more after the aperformances and bordinances of the claw of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in dfasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord (4 Nephi 1:11–12).
16 And there were no aenvyings, nor bstrifes, nor ctumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of dlasciviousness; and surely there could not be a ehappier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.
17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in aone, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God (4 Nephi 1:16–17).
18 And how blessed were they! For the Lord did bless them in all their doings; yea, even they were blessed and prospered until an hundred and ten years had passed away; and the first generation from Christ had passed away, and there was no contention in all the land (4 Nephi 1:18).
Segment 6:
What threatened the joy of the people?
20 And he kept it eighty and four years, and there was still peace in the land, save it were a small part of the people who had revolted from the church and taken upon them the name of Lamanites; therefore there began to be aLamanites again in the land (4 Nephi 1:20).
23 And now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied, insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land, and that they had become exceedingly arich, because of their prosperity in Christ.
24 And now, in this two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in apride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world.
25 And from that time forth they did have their goods and their substance no more acommon among them.
26 And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up achurches unto themselves to get bgain, and began to deny the true church of Christ (4 Nephi 1:23–26).
Elder Neal A. Maxwell's Quotes About Pride:
Quote: "Pride prefers cheap repentance, paid for with shallow sorrow" (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, "Repentance," October 1991 general conference).
Quote: "Do not let yesterday hold tomorrow hostage! Walk away from your investment in the penny stock of pride; it never pays dividends" (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, "A Brother Offended," April 1982 general conference).
Quote: "A person's small puffs of pride are best blown away by the breeze of brotherhood; left alone, these become enlarged and dark thunderclouds which drench all round about" (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, Of One Heart, Deseret Book, pg.15).
Quote: "It is possible to have illegitimate pride in a legitimate role or in a deserved reputation. Such pride must go, too, for we are servants of Him who lived His unique life as a person of 'no reputation' (Philip. 2:7)" (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, Not My Will, But Thine, Deseret Book, pg. 93).
How did pride affect the people?
45 And it came to pass that when three hundred years had passed away, both the people of Nephi and the Lamanites had become exceedingly wicked one like unto another.
46 And it came to pass that the robbers of aGadianton did spread over all the face of the land; and there were none that were righteous save it were the disciples of Jesus. And gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance, and did btraffic in all manner of traffic (4 Nephi 1:45–46).
Challenge: Consider the roles you have and ponder if you have done anything or are doing anything that manifests pride in your relationships.
0:00:00 Tammy Uzelac Hall: Back in March, when the pandemic began, I spent a good part of the quarantine doing these "challenges" with my kids. Now anyone listening who has young kids that love YouTube know what I'm talking about. There are all these crazy challenges all over the place, like the Skittle challenge, the Pop Tart challenge, the Oreo challenge and yes, even the spicy noodle challenge, ugh! But we didn't do anything crazy like the Tide Pod challenge so don't worry, we're not sane at my house but not that nuts.
0:00:28 TH: But as I read 3 Nephi, chapters 27 through 4 Nephi, what stood out to me were challenges and thankfully though, you have to believe me this, today's challenges are not going to leave you with a cankered tongue or a piping hot lava mouth. Today's challenges will only bring us closer to Christ and to be honest with you, that's the only kind of challenge that I can handle about now.
0:00:50 TH: Welcome to the "Sunday on Monday" study group, a Deseret Bookshelf PLUS+ original, brought to by LDS Living, where we take the "Come, Follow Me" lesson for the week and really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall.
0:01:00 TH: Now, if you're new to our study group, we wanna make sure that you know how to use the podcast. You can listen all at once or you can listen to it throughout the week. It's broken down into six segments and each segment is about 10 to 12 minutes long so you can listen to one per day or this is kind of cool, you can study like our friends, Lori Ware Labrum and Vicky Campbell McCombs do, who I found out recently get this, they both have carefully choreographed listening to the podcast on their iPad while following along with the complete transcript on their iPhone with their scriptures open as they mark them up.
0:01:33 TH: That is impressive so you ladies rock.
0:01:37 TH: Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends so it's different each week and we get a different perspective and I am so excited to have my friends Kerri Brown and Kamie Brown on today's episode. Hi, ladies.
0:01:49 Kerri Brown: Hey!
0:01:50 Kamie Brown: Hi everyone. Hi Tammy. Hi Kerri.
0:01:53 TH: Hi and they both have the same last name but they are not related, right? I don't think you are.
0:01:57 KB: Well, we could be. We could be.
0:02:00 KB: Sure, yeah.
0:02:00 TH: Well it's not that common. [chuckle]
0:02:02 KB: Yeah, we get calls for each other all the time, we just relay the messages back and forth about ministering assignments, church assignments, neighborhood meetings, it's all great.
0:02:11 KB: The missionaries even... Went to Kamie's house two times.
0:02:17 KB: That's right, Kerri, they did. They did for dinner, for an appointment or something and I remember one time my mom answered the door and let them in and they were just talking and she couldn't figure out why they were there and they kept looking at the stove trying to figure out what was for dinner and they finally realized they were not at the right Brown house.
0:02:37 TH: Oh that's hilarious. I've never heard that story. That's awesome! [chuckle] Okay and I just have to say, my favorite thing about both of you is you're both such strong women. Kamie, you're a lawyer, corporate lawyer, like big time lawyer and Kerri, you've held so many positions of authority. I've watched you over the years doing different things with different organizations and I know how good you are at it because I followed you in just a couple of those positions and I'm gonna tell you right now, you wanna follow Kamie or Kerri in any position, these women are strong, they know their stuff.
0:03:07 TH: You can find more information about our guests in our show notes, which is at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Now, were either of your kids into challenges, have you guys done any of those or help them do them?
0:03:18 KB: We did the tree climbing challenge. When we were doing from school during COVID in the spring and it was cold and I needed to get the kids outside, we would go and walk over to the local elementary school that's just right around the corner and I would have my kids climb the trees and we would see who could climb highest that day and they would always try and beat their own records so... Dangerous but nobody got hurt.
0:03:41 TH: Ahh sure. What's a little danger? For anyone listening who feels like they are challenged out either spiritually or physically, please, please, please resist the temptation to shut down with this episode. This is not meant to overwhelm anybody. Like I said in the beginning, the whole plan and purpose of these challenges is just to bring you closer to Christ. So here's my advice, listen to this entire episode and then sit and ponder and think about everything that we studied and discussed and I can promise you this, that the spirit will absolutely let you know which challenge is for you. So just pay attention to that. Do not be overwhelmed 'cause this is gonna be such a fun episode.
0:04:16 TH: So friends, grab your scriptures and let's dig in. Ladies, I have four pictures that I'm gonna show you and when I show you these pictures, I want you to tell me who started the company and these will be in our show notes if you wanna go and look at them. Okay, here's the first logo.
0:04:30 KB: McDonald's.
0:04:31 KB: The arches.
0:04:34 TH: And who started McDonald's?
0:04:34 KB: I'd say, Mr. McDonald's.
0:04:36 KB: I think it was the two brothers.
0:04:36 TH: Yeah, you're totally right.
0:04:38 KB: Was it two brothers?
0:04:40 TH: The McDonald's brothers? Yes, very good. Perfect answer, ding, ding, ding. Okay, here's the next company logo.
0:04:47 KB: Chanel.
0:04:48 TH: Who started the company Chanel?
0:04:50 KB: Ms. Chanel.
0:04:52 TH: Very good. Okay, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. See, this is just so easy, you can do this. Okay, here's your next logo.
0:04:58 KB: Johnson & Johnson.
0:05:00 TH: Yep, who started it?
0:05:01 KB: It's gotta be Mr. Johnson and Mrs or Ms... I don't know, maybe it was Ms...
0:05:05 TH: The Johnson family.
0:05:07 KB: The Johnson family.
0:05:07 TH: Perfect. Here's your last logo.
0:05:10 KB: Marriott, started by Bill Marriott.
0:05:13 TH: Okay so as both of you pointed out, these companies are named after their founders. So why do you think that is? Why would anyone wanna name a company after their name? It seems like you would have zero privacy at that point. Any thoughts?
0:05:25 KB: Well people wanna be recognized for their company because they're usually very proud of what they've presented and they want to choose that name, make it special and then have it copyrighted or trademarked so that no one else can take that name because the name is very, very important and very recognizable to the general public.
0:05:44 TH: Excellent. Okay, let's see what these logos have to do with 3 Nephi, chapter 27, verse 3 and then 7 through 8. Let's go there. So a little background about this, is that the Savior has just finished being with the apostles, having the sacrament with them, teaching them from all of the different books in Isaiah, Malachi, Micah and now the apostles, they have a very specific question for the Savior. Kerri, will you please read verse 3?
0:06:09 KB: "And they said unto him, Lord, we will that thou wouldst tell us the name whereby we shall call his church; for there are disputation among the people concerning this matter, therefore, whatsoever you shall do, you shall do it in my name. Therefore, you shall call the Church in my name and you shall call upon the Father in my name, that he will bless the Church for my sake and how be it my church? Save it, be called in my name, for if a church be called in Moses' name, then it be Moses' church or it would be called in the name of a man than it be the Church of a man but if it be called in my name, then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my castle."
0:06:47 TH: Thank you. So Kerri, what did they want to know? What was their question to Jesus?
0:06:51 KB: What should our church be called.
0:06:52 TH: And what did he say?
0:06:54 KB: It should be called after my name.
0:06:58 TH: Perfect. So we have a quote because in 2018, President Nelson gave us sort of a course correction, like a name correction for the Church and with the scriptures we just read, I wanna read this quote by President Nelson. Kamie, will you read this quote for us?
0:07:13 KB: For much of the world, the Lord's Church is presently disguised as the "Mormon Church." But we, as members of the Lord's Church know who stands and it's head: Jesus Christ himself. Unfortunately, many who hear the term Mormon, they think that we worship Mormon. Not so. We honor and respect that great ancient American prophet but we are not Mormon's disciples. We are the Lord's disciples."
0:07:38 TH: Thank you. So now I have another logo to show you and I want you to tell me who started this company.
0:07:44 KB: Jesus Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
0:07:48 TH: That's right Kerri. This is the new church logo, it's the picture of the Christus statue with a little round thing around it in dark blue, which I love. I think it's a great logo. So I will be honest, back in 2018, when I heard that talk by the prophet, I was like "Alright, I'll do it." but it was almost kinda like I was being a brat about it "Okay, I'll do it." and I can remember in conversations, talking with people when I would correct the name, I would do like Ephesians like "The Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter-day Saints."
0:08:17 TH: But then I was kind of course corrected by my 10-year-old daughter at the time because she was telling a story about how at school, she was talking with a friend who wasn't a member of our church, she said "Mom, I just told her I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." and I was like "Ugh, I've been such a jerk about the name change." Like "Why can't I just say it solidly?" And I decide at that point, I am going to just say it and so in this talk, President Nelson spoke to us about the importance of this name correction. So let's read this quote and Kerri, will you read this quick quote for us?
0:08:51 KB: "To remove the Lord's name from the Lord's church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior's name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us, even His Atonement."
0:09:04 TH: Thank you and I think what stood out to me as I was reading, is look at 3 Nephi, chapter 27. At the end of verse five, I thought it was interesting that when the Savior's speaking, he says "Have they not read the scriptures, which say ye must take upon you the name of Christ, which is my name." but this part right here "For by this name shall ye be called at the last day." And we know what last days can mean but for me, I was like "What if that means right now, last day?" I don't know, it kinda stood out to me. Why is it important that we have that this name change right now in the world we're in? What are your thoughts on that?
0:09:40 KB: I have to just say that I just got really emotional and I was reading that because I think like you, at first I didn't realize the important of officially changing the name but over this past couple of years, I've really just appreciated and loved that we say the whole name, that we say Jesus Christ's name and I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and to me, that just... It means everything.
0:10:12 TH: Thank you Kerri, I appreciate you sharing that. So let's go into 3 Nephi, chapter 27 and we're gonna read verses 10-12 because even more powerful than what we read about the quote from President Nelson is what the name says about us as a people and I just love these verses. Kamie, will you please read 3 Nephi, chapter 27, verses 10 through 12.
0:10:35 KB: "And if it's so be that the Church is built upon my gospel, then will the Father show forth his own works in it but if it be not built upon my gospel and is built upon the works of men or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you, they have joy in their works for a season and by in by the end cometh and they are hewn down and cast into the fire from whence there is no return, for their works to follow them for it is because of their works that they are hewn down, therefore remember the things that I have told you."
0:11:11 TH: Thank you, this idea that our works represent this church and I love how President Nelson mentioned this in his talk so let's read this quote by him and Kamie, will you read this quote by the prophet?
0:11:25 KB: "Taking the Saviors name upon us includes declaring and witnessing to others through our actions and our words, that Jesus is the Christ. Have we been so afraid to offend someone who called us Mormons that we have failed to defend the Savior himself, to stand up for him, even in the name by which his church is called."
0:11:45 TH: Thank you and the thing that I loved about this talk that I didn't even realize till I went back and read it, was that there is a blessing associated with calling us the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So as we read this next quote, Kerri and Kamie I want you to tell me what blessings stands out. What is it about this quote and the blessings we receive by having this name correction? I'll read the quote, while the both of you look for the blessing that's associated with the name.
0:12:12 TH: "My dear brothers and sisters, I promise you that if we will do our best to restore the correct name of the Lord's church, he whose church this is will pour down his power and blessings upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints, the likes of which we have never seen. We will have the knowledge and power of God to help us take the blessings of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to every nation, kindred, tongue and people and to prepare the world for the second coming of the Lord. So what's in a name? When it comes to the name of the Lord's church, the answer is everything. Jesus Christ directed us to call the Church by his name because it is his church filled with power."
0:12:52 TH: What were some things you thought or what stood out to you with that?
0:12:56 KB: There were three words that I wrote down as we were reading that quote, the first one was restore, that we restore the name to Christ's name. I love that 'cause it's always been his name and we were in this wonderful period right now of restoration in our church and we just celebrated the 200th anniversary of the restoration itself and the other two words that I loved were knowledge and power. There's knowledge and power associated with our using the right name of Christ's Church.
0:13:26 TH: Wow Kamie! Thank you for sharing that and when you were talking about that, the thing that stood out to me in connection with those words was when he said "Will pour down his power and blessings to the likes of which we have never seen." Just by saying the name with complete affirmation. So here's challenge number one, maybe we just need to declare our affiliation to Christ's Church by being "bold but not overbearing," as quoting Alma the younger to his son.
0:13:52 TH: Maybe heaven knows that we all need power and I know I need power and if it can be given to me by just declaring without any bit of sarcasm that I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I'm willing to do that for that kind of power. Maybe that's what the Lord's waiting for us as members of the Church to do, to really take on that name. Kamie, Kerri, any thoughts about that challenge?
0:14:16 KB: I think it's a great challenge. It takes a lot of courage sometimes for people... Sometimes we need challenges like that to give us a little push, to have a little more courage.
0:14:25 KB: I agree with that and I love you're pointing out at the beginning of our conversation Tammy, that this is a mouthful, to say this every time we're in conversations with friends, neighbors, family, people that we don't know so well, to say The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be a real mouthful at times. Even so, it's right and we know that it's right because our prophet has instructed us that it's right and reading 3 Nephi 27 confirms that in every way.
0:15:00 TH: Absolutely. So after Jesus answers the apostles' question about what to call the Church, he then issues a pretty big challenge to them and to us so we're gonna learn about that in the next segment.
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Segment 2
0:15:20 TH: Kerri and Kamie growing up, I'm just curious, was there anyone you wanted to be like? Any famous person you kind of emulated or wanted to look like when you were a kid?
0:15:29 KB: I wanted to be like Sandra Day O'Connor. I know that...
0:15:33 TH: Of course, you did.
[laughter]
0:15:36 KB: I just thought, she was the coolest.
0:15:38 TH: Kamie, can you please elaborate on who Sandra Day O'Connor is exactly?
0:15:42 KB: Yes. She's the first female United States Supreme Court Justice.
0:15:45 TH: Of course, you wanted to be like her. I'm gonna be real embarrassed when I give my answer. Kerri, who did you want to be like?
0:15:52 KB: I can't think of a person necessarily I wanted to be like but when I was younger, I wanted to be the President of the United States.
0:16:02 KB: Yes.
0:16:02 TH: I totally would write that in, Kerri Brown for President. It's perfect. Oh that's great. When I was little, I wanted to be like the Olympic figure skater, Dorothy Hamill. I had the Dorothy Hammil haircut. I wanted to enroll in ice skating lessons. Oh my gosh, for sure, I'm a lot older than you guys though so that isn't surprising.
0:16:21 KB: On no. I remember Dorothy.
0:16:23 KB: Oh, yeah. Dorothy Hammil was so cool.
0:16:24 TH: Sure. Did you have the Dorothy Hammil haircut? No one... Did you have the haircut?
0:16:26 KB: No.
0:16:28 TH: Oh, then you weren't a true Dorothy Hammil. No no. I wanted to be like her, I got the Dorothy Hammil haircut, that didn't work out so well and then I got a perm and that was just... It's that downward... Began the downward spiral of me in my childhood but I have to laugh because we have come so far from Dorothy Hammil to a Kardashian. Am I right? It's just day and night, how many different options there are for little girls to be like? And so it made me think of this when I was studying in 3 Nephi because the good news is, is that Jesus actually tells us who we should be like and this is the only thing we should aspire to. So let's go into 3 Nephi, chapter 27, verse 27 and Kamie, will you read that for us, please?
0:17:07 KB: "And know ye that ye shall be judges of this people according to the judgement which I shall give unto you, which shall be just. Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily, I say unto you, even as I am."
0:17:21 TH: Highlight that "What manner of men ought ye to be. Verily, I see into you, even as I am." That is who He wants us to be like. So how do we do it? 'Cause that seems like a pretty lofty goal to be like Jesus Christ but I love in 3 Nephi 27 verse 21, he kind of gives us a starting off point on how we can do that. So turn the page back to verse 21 and Kamie, will you continue to read that verse for us?
0:17:44 KB: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do, even that shall ye do."
0:18:00 TH: Thank you. That was a tongue twister but if you could narrow it down to just a quick sentence, how would you sum that up? What do we need to do to be like Jesus?
0:18:08 KB: I think that we need to study Christ's works. What do we see him do and how can we do that in our lives and in our circumstances.
0:18:17 TH: Perfect and I thought what was interesting in there too, is when he says "You must do in my church." Sometimes people will say "You can be spiritual and not religious." and I've been thinking a lot about that lately and I have to wonder because this first teaches us that being religious though and doing the things that Christ would do because of this unity that we have in Christ is what causes us to be more spiritual or more like him. I don't know that if I didn't have a religion, if I wasn't a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and left to my own volition, I don't know that I would serve as much as I do. Would you agree? What do you think?
0:18:50 KB: Yeah, I think to me, we're supposed to do what Jesus would do and he didn't need to go out and talk to the people and help them and you know, he was perfect but he did, he was always around people and he was always helping them and I think that's what church does for me is imperfect people and we're all there to try to just help each other and give each other maybe a little inspiration or a little push for the week to try a little bit better and there are gonna be feelings hurt at times and there's gonna be people that aren't very kind sometimes but I think the good outweighs the bad.
0:19:32 TH: Oh absolutely. There's a great quote by Ezra Taft Benson about becoming like Jesus and it applies to everything we've just been discussing so let's read this quick quote and Kerri, will you read that for us, please?
0:19:42 KB: Ezra Taft Benson said this about being like Christ "The only measure of true greatness is how close a man can become like Jesus. That man is greatest who is most like Christ and those who love him most will be like him."
0:19:56 TH: So Kamie and Kerri, I asked you to think about this throughout the week, is there anyone you know who fits that bill? Someone you know who love Jesus and as a result is like him?
0:20:07 KB: My mom is a really great example to me of someone who's Christlike. My mom taught third grade at Manti Elementary in Manti, Utah, for probably almost 20 years and she had all these cute third graders that she knew everyone, she loved everyone. She could tell you something specific about every child I think that she ever taught over those years and those kids that she had in third grade, they graduated from high school this year, 2020, it was definitely a different year with pandemic. She tried to get a hold of every single one of those kids that she had taught in third grade that graduated in 2020 and that's such a huge example to me of someone who sees people just like Christ sees people, sees us individually.
0:20:54 KB: So that's a great example to me of someone that loves Jesus and as a result is like him.
0:21:02 TH: What about you Kerri? Anyone come to mind?
0:21:05 KB: You, both of you are two of the people that are on my list of many and I can't even start to talk about all the people. Of course, my mom is one of those on those lists but you can just sense when someone loves Jesus, they do things not because they want attention, they don't serve and talk about it and post about it or whatever, they're just serving daily and I just love that. I just love people who are like Jesus, just because that's them.
0:21:36 TH: Thank you Kamie and Kerri for sharing those thoughts. I loved what you had to say and I love going back into 3 Nephi chapter 27 because let's look at what the results are of being Christlike. So in 3 Nephi chapter 27, I'm gonna read verse 30 and 31 and I want you to highlight what stands out to you, what would the result be of being like Christ. "And now behold, my joy is great, even unto fullness because of you and also this generation; yea and even the Father rejoiceth and also all his holy angels because of you and this generation; for none of them are lost. Behold, I would that ye should understand; for I mean them who are now alive, of this generation; and none of them are lost; and in them I have fullness of joy."
0:22:17 TH: What's the Savior saying are the results of being like him? What does he have?
0:22:22 KB: He has joy, he has fullness, he has holy angels and he says none of us are lost.
0:22:29 KB: Thank you and this is a cool quote by President Nelson, here's what he has to say about joy and Kamie, will you read this quote for us?
0:22:37 KB: Life is filled with detours and dead ends, trials and challenges of every kind. Each of us has likely had times when distress, anguish and despair almost consumed us. Yet we are here to have joy? Yes! The answer is a resounding yes! But how is that possible? And what must we do to claim the joy that Heavenly Father has in store for us? Things can be happy under every circumstance. We can feel joy even while having a bad day, a bad week or even a bad year.
0:23:09 KB: My dear brothers and sisters, the joy we feel has little to do with the circumstances of our life and everything to do with the focus of our lives.
0:23:19 TH: Thank you Kamie. So going back to what we talked about, focusing on Jesus Christ to be like him, I wanna know how has your focus affected your joy?
0:23:29 KB: The thought that keeps running through my mind is, how hard it can be? Sometimes as mothers, as parents, watching our kids make decisions that we don't like, that aren't our favorite it's because they might not be right and I think as parents and especially as mothers, we blame ourselves and we say "If I were a better parent, if I were a better mom, if I had done this thing differently then my child wouldn't have made these decisions." and I think that that's incorrect and that I read that quote from President Nelson about the focus of our lives, we can't lose focus of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and the agency that we all have as we came here to earth, our kids have that same agency and sometimes I really struggle with that 'cause I think I hate agency. They just need to do what I say.
0:24:16 TH: Yeah totally.
0:24:16 KB: Everything will be fine but it doesn't work that way and we know that and we've known that for a long time but it's easy sometimes to beat ourselves up and think that if we had somehow done something different or said something different or had more lessons or more Scripture study or more whatever, we wouldn't be dealing with these choices that our children might be making that we don't love but if that's not the case, then we need not get discouraged.
0:24:40 KB: If we can continue to focus on Christ always, especially in those hard times, then we can find happiness and we can find peace and rest in our Savior, to know that our Savior died for us and as an example for us and He is for our kids too and we learn by making mistakes and that's okay and it's not our fault because we didn't do something quite right and there's no guarantee that an outcome would have been different if we would have had three more days of scripture study last year.
0:25:06 TH: Totally. I feel like everything Kamie just said, I'm gonna have to record on my phone and play on my hardest day with my kid. So that's the challenge for this segment is to think about what your focus is and what you can do this week to show your love of Jesus Christ, to focus on him more and think of one thing you can do. If there's just one thing that pops in your mind, do it.
0:25:27 TH: Now, something cool about this phrase that the Savior uses when he says a fullness of joy, it goes beyond anything we could even comprehend and we have to know that going into this next part because President Nelson said this quote "To claim the joy that Heavenly Father has in store for us, He is teaching us an important truth about joy. This fullness of joy actually goes beyond being really, really happy." President Nelson said "Joy is at the center of God's plan for us. God offers an intensity, a depth and breadth of joy that defy human logic or mortal comprehension." So this fullness of joy is the fullness of God's plan, his work in his glory, immortality in the eternal life to be like Jesus and his Father.
0:26:09 TH: So in the next segment, we're going to discover who this fullness of joy was promised to in 3 Nephi chapter 28.
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Segment 3
0:26:19 TH: Kamie and Kerri, how would you answer this question? If the Savior said to you, What is it that you desire of me? What are you gonna say? It's like the world's your oyster, you can have anything you want. What is it that you desire of me? What are you gonna ask?
0:26:42 KB: I know that the disciples asked when they were 72 or however old, just kinda twinkle away, I think that might be kind of nice.
0:26:51 TH: You know what Kerri? I love your answer and I totally understand why you said that because you have witnessed the slow deterioration of a loved one. You know what that's like. Kamie what about you? What's the first thing that popped into your mind that you then said I'm not gonna say?
0:27:05 KB: I want a guarantee. I want a guarantee that all my kids are gonna make it back to the celestial kingdom.
0:27:10 TH: Yes, absolutely and I think that's great.
0:27:12 KB: Can I have that?
[laughter]
0:27:13 TH: A total guarantee. I love it. When I wrote that question down, I thought 8-year-old me would have said free bubble gum for everyone but yeah wow, 48-year-old me, much different story. I think that my answer would be along the lines of what both of you said and this is the exact question the Savior asked the 12 apostles in the Book of Mormon. So let's go to 3 Nephi 28:1 and you can mark that when he says, what is it that you desire of me, after that I am gone to the Father? So he says what do you want? And Kerri, you alluded to this, which was so great. Will you read for us verse 2 and 3, please?
0:27:49 KB: "And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom and he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are a seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest."
0:28:13 TH: Perfect, okay and they were like "That sounds great. We appreciate that." But it's interesting in those verses because there were three who didn't ask for that and in verse 4, the Savior turns to those three and he knows what they want and it's interesting 'cause in verse 5, it says they sorrowed in their hearts 'cause they didn't even dare say what it was that they wanted. Isn't that interesting? I'd love to have a talk with him like "Why would you be sad about that? What you're asking is a pretty...
0:28:42 KB: That's pretty admirable.
0:28:44 TH: Yeah, yeah. It's exactly.
0:28:45 KB: Maybe they thought it would be really hard. Maybe they thought that if they ask for that and they received it, it would be a really difficult thing for them to do.
0:28:55 TH: Yeah. Oh that's great insight too 'cause it is big what they're asking for. I would never ask for that. I think that it's huge and so in verse 6, I think it's great, he tells us something here so Kamie, will you read verse 6?
0:29:06 KB: Yes. "And he said unto them: Behold, I know your thoughts and ye have desired the thing which John, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me."
0:29:20 TH: Oh, read verse 7 and 8 too, those are good.
0:29:23 KB: "Therefore, more blessed are ye for ye shall never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the powers of heaven and ye shall never endure the pains of death; but when I shall come in my glory, ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father."
0:29:53 TH: Thank you and then he goes on in verse 9 and 10, we need to read these because there's interesting wording that he uses here. Kerri, will you read 9 and 10, please?
0:30:01 KB: "And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the sins of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand."
0:30:18 TH: Pause for just a second there, Ker. In verse 9, what's the only kind of pain and sorrow that they'll feel?
0:30:25 KB: The sorrow for the sins of the world. Yeah.
0:30:31 TH: Now I wonder if they are thinking physical death might not be so bad, which is a greater pain, right? But then I love how he shores it up with verse 10 and this is what we talked about in the last segment. So go ahead and read verse 10 for us.
0:30:45 KB: "And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one.
0:31:03 TH: Thank you. There's that fullness of joy. They get everything. It's what both of you said, an absolute guarantee, you did it and it's gonna be quick when all things are said and done and I just think that's that fullness of joy verse right there.
0:31:16 TH: One of the things that I want us to focus on though is in verse 15 because they have this incredible spiritual experience and if you start in verse 11 and you read through that, in verse 13, it says they heard and saw unspeakable things like they aren't even allowed to talk about what they're gonna experience with Jesus right now and then they have this verse 15, let's read this 'cause we're gonna talk about this word real quick. I'll read it and then have you mark something. It says "And whether they were in the body or out of the body, they could not tell; for it did seem unto them like a transfiguration of them." Highlight the word transfiguration right there.
0:31:48 TH: So when we talk about that word, transfiguration, here's what we wanna know 'cause there's two words in our religion that we use. Transfiguration and translation. So I'm gonna teach you what the difference is between these two words because both of them happened to the three Nephites.
0:32:00 TH: So when we talk about in the New Testament, Peter, James and John went with the Savior up and they call it the Mount of Transfiguration. A transfiguring experience means the condition of the persons who are temporarily changed in appearance in nature, that means they're lifted to a higher spiritual level so that they can enter the presence and glory of heavenly beings.
0:32:20 TH: So when we have the Mount of Transfiguration, those three had a glorious heavenly experience, it was sort of like a mini Judgment Day for them and so that happened to the three Nephites right here, they were transfigured so they could have this glorious incredible experience. Then they were translated and translated person is a person who's changed so they don't experience pain or death until their resurrection to immortality and so we have in the Scriptures here where Mormon, as he's writing this, he'll say "I'm not sure if they were transfigured but then they're never gonna taste of death and according to some scholars in the book that I used by Ogden and Skinner, they mentioned that they were transfigured so that they could have this incredible spiritual experience with the Savior and not catch on fire and burn 'cause of the glorious experience and then they were translated so that they would never taste of death. So those are the difference between those two words.
0:33:11 TH: Now Kamie and Kerri, I asked you guys to then read 3 Nephi chapter 28 and share with me all the fun things you found out about these three Nephites because the rest of the chapter is gonna tell us about them and what happened to them, what didn't happen to them, where they are, all that fun stuff so share with us the verses that stood out to you and read them to us.
0:33:30 KB: I marked so many. So verse 39 is probably my favorite one, where it just talked about how Satan could have no power over them, that he could not tempt them and they were sanctified in the flesh, that they were holy and that the powers of the earth could not hold them.
0:33:46 TH: It's a great one. Why did that stand out to you, Kerri?
0:33:51 KB: So that just stood out to me just because... I mean, that's like my dream come true, Satan having no power over me. Wouldn't that be so great?
0:34:00 KB: Yes.
0:34:00 KB: That would be so great, just being so holy that you can just really do Christ's work if you can do what you need to do.
0:34:08 TH: Well, as you're saying that I'm thinking, yeah, to do what you need to do and not be bogged down with feelings of insecurity or the normal things that Satan tempts us with on a daily basis, not thinking you're fat and ugly. I don't know. I mean, maybe they didn't have that problem but I do not have anything else outside and just be focused on Jesus Christ and his work.
0:34:28 KB: Oh, yeah and so I really... It was kind of a challenge that I took on to just try to... If I caught myself saying something negative to switch it. Maybe it was "Oh, that was a mistake, I'm not gonna do that again." instead of "I'm so stupid." You know?
0:34:44 TH: Yeah. 'Cause it changes your focus back to the Savior and off of ourselves, I like that Kerri. Kamie, go ahead.
0:34:51 KB: Kerri, I love that and I've always taught my kids and I've taught in Young Women's that when you start to have those thoughts in your head "I'm dumb, I'm stupid, I'm whatever." all the negative thought, be a red stop sign, just like you're driving up to a red stop sign. Just see that in your head, catch yourself, see that stop sign and pivot and go a different direction because those thoughts have no room in your head because God's created us and when we start going down that negative path, I think we need to see the bright red stop sign and stop, go a different direction.
0:35:21 TH: For sure. That's great.
0:35:24 KB: My favorite verses in chapter 28 are 30 and 31 "And they are as the angels of God and if they shall pray unto the Father in the name of Jesus they can show themselves unto whatever man it seemeth them good. Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them." I love this. Have miracles fees? No, they haven't. Think of all the people that the three Nephites have appeared to and helped throughout hundreds and hundreds of years, it's amazing to me and I just love to let my imagination wander and consider where they've been and what they've done and the stories that they'll be able to tell when we have the opportunity to meet them because of what we learn in verses 30 and 31.
0:36:09 TH: I think so too. Tell me how that worked and tell me where you were, I want all these great stories. So there's a lot of crazy... What do we call them? Church folklore stories, people love to share stories about the three Nephites. When I would teach this in seminary, I would always get a student raise their hand and just share "Well, I heard a story about my brother's best friend's uncle." and you get all these fun church history, three Nephite, John the Beloved stories and this is the one that is approved so I wanna share this story with you, 'cause this is found in Saints Volume One.
0:36:39 TH: So this is about David Whitmer, who ended up being one of the three witnesses and he had heard about Joseph Smith and the plate so he wants to go to Harmony immediately, he's gotta find out about this and his dad reminded him "Look, you have two days' worth of heavy work to do before you can leave, you have to sow plaster of Paris in your fields." and it's like 20 acres worth and it's a ton of work.
0:37:00 TH: And so David's father gave him advice, he says "You know, you might wanna just pray and see if this is really some place you should go. Do you really need to go and see this Joseph Smith?" This Joe Smith, as they would call him and so David did, he took his father's advice and he prayed, hoping the Spirit would tell him that he just needed to go and so he felt like he needed to finish the work and then head to Harmony as soon as he could.
0:37:18 TH: Well, the next morning, David walks out to the fields and he saw that the work had all been completed except for one furrow, one row that needed to be done and he's like "What in the world?" He can't even believe it and so his sister's house, who was not very far away from his, it says it was just a few yards away and he said "Do you know who did this? Like what? Why is my field done?" And I love this, this is what the sister said "Why said she in surprise. You sowed it all day yesterday and it was sown by some... Or one of the children came and begged me to go out and look at some men who were sowing plaster in the field for said day."
0:37:52 TH: "Mother, you never saw anybody so Plaster, as fast as they do in your life, I went and I did see three men to work in the field as the children said but supposing that you had employed some assistance because of your hurry to get your work done, I passed into the house without giving any further attention to the subject."
0:38:11 TH: David made considerable inquiry but not being able to ascertain who had done it, he related the circumstance to his father, who was quite at much a loss to determine how the thing was brought about and then he did, I love how his father said to him "There must be an overruling hand in this." he said "And I think you'd better go down to Pennsylvania as soon as you finish that last row." Like that's such a fun story. I just love it.
0:38:32 TH: So there's lots of interesting stories but one thing we know is they're still here, they're still alive, they are still doing God's work, that's the whole purpose of why they're here so that's kind of a really fun story. So in the next segment, Mormon's gonna finish up his writings in the book of 3 Nephi and there's only two chapters, you guys and it's 11 short verses, super succinct and super powerful. So we'll study that next.
[music]
Segment 4
0:39:05 TH: Alright, I'm gonna play a song, a little clip of this song and I want you guys, as you listen to this afterwards, tell me what all of the kids in our ward do when they hear this song and I've served with all of you in this so you know. Here we go.
[music]
0:39:24 TH: Kamie, you did it right in the middle of the song. What do all the kids in our ward do when we sing that?
0:39:45 KB: I can 't help it, they raised their scriptures up really high over their heads.
0:39:52 TH: Totally, I wonder if that's universal in all wards. I kinda think it might be, I hope. Yeah, they raise those scriptures up and above their heads for that scripture power part. What I love about this song is for me, it is a fulfillment of 3 Nephi, chapter 29. The Book of Mormon is a powerful reminder that the Lord has begun to gather Israel. Scripture power, it is the power that I need. Maybe we need to write another verse about how this scripture power will help us gather Israel, like the prophet has asked us to do. This is such a cool song.
0:40:20 TH: Let's go into 3 Nephi, chapter 29, verse 1 and I'm gonna read this 'cause I'm gonna stop and have us mark something in it. verse 1 says "And now behold, I say unto you that when the Lord shall see fit, in his wisdom, that these sayings." highlight these sayings and then draw a line to the outside and write Book of Mormon, that's what these sayings is, it's the Book of Mormon.
0:40:40 TH: It says "In his wisdom that these sayings." the scriptures, the Book of Mormon "shall come unto the Gentiles according to his word, then you may know that the covenant which the Father hath made with the children of Israel, concerning their restoration to the lands of their inheritance is already beginning to be fulfilled." Let's continue to read about these things and Kerri, will you read verse 2 and 3 for us?
0:41:02 KB: "And ye may know that the words of the Lord, which have been spoken by the holy prophets, shall all be fulfilled and ye need not say that the Lord delays his coming unto the children of Israel and ye need not imagine in your hearts that the words which have been spoken are vain, for behold, the Lord will remember his covenant, which he hath made unto his people of the house of Israel."
0:41:23 TH: Thank you. Okay, then we're given a warning you guys. Let's go into 3 Nephi, chapter 29 and we're gonna read verse 4 and the first thing we have to notice is the word spurn. You're gonna see the word spurn often. In fact, right in verse 4, you see it at the beginning "And when ye shall see these sayings coming forth among you, then ye need that any longer spurn." Highlight the word spurn, the definition for that is to reject with disdain, to scorn or to receive or not accept. So I just put to reject with disdain. Think about that, not just reject it but reject it with disdain. Kerri, go ahead.
0:41:58 KB: Well, I'm just so glad that you explained. What spurn means because I was wondering.
0:42:04 TH: It's very good then. So there it is. We're gonna read it a lot in these verses. Okay, here we go "At the doings of the Lord, for the sword of his justice is in his right hand; and behold at that day" that means now "if ye shall spurn at his doings, he will cause that it shall soon overtake you. Woe." highlight the word, woe, there. We've talked about this word before but as a reminder, it means grief, sorrow or utter destruction. So you're saying to us, grief, sorrow or utter destruction will come upon us.
0:42:35 TH: Now notice that the word woe is repeated in the next three verses, there's a reason for that. This is called a Wo Oracle. I thought it was pretty cool. So to the outside of your scriptures or down below where you have space, write woe and then equals Woe Oracle. So there are four aspects of a Woe Oracle in Hebrew, it is an accusation, then you have the addressee who he's talking to, then you have the intent of the accusation and then we have a promise of the judgment.
0:43:04 TH: So notice that as I read the rest of these verses. Okay, verse 5 "Wo unto them that spurneth at the doings of the Lord; yea, woe unto him that shall deny the Christ and his works. Yea woe unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord and that shall say the Lord no longer worketh by revelation or by prophecy or by gifts or by tongues or by healings or by the power of the Holy Ghost! Yea and woe unto him that shall say at that day to get gain, that there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become like unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy according to the word of Christ! Yea and ye need not any longer hiss, nor spurn, nor make any game of the Jews, nor any of the remnant of the house of Israel for behold, the Lord remembereth his covenant unto them and he will do unto them according to that which he has sworn."
0:43:52 TH: Okay so we're gonna pause there for just a second. Kamie, Kerri, as you guys were writing these down in marking, what were some of the thoughts you have?
0:43:58 KB: In verse 7, this stood out to me "Yea and woe unto him that shall say it at that day to get gain, that there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ." and how many times are we tempted to do something, to get something, I think we see that all the time. That stood out to me.
0:44:15 TH: That's the goal of humanity. That is the goal, to get gain and a lot of people do it in any way. I mean Kamie, you probably see that a lot in your line of work, in your profession.
0:44:25 KB: I do, I've seen it a lot. I was defending someone, he was a police officer for one of our agencies in the state of Utah and my job was to defend him and he told me time and time again that he was falsely accused and he hadn't done anything and the day before, after we'd spent a lot of time preparing and going over the evidence and the details and his story, which I was presenting on his behalf, he called me and he said "Do you wanna hear the real truth?" And I said "Well, I thought we've been talking about the real truth for all of these weeks? What is the real truth?"
0:45:07 KB: And he said that he had, in fact, done those things that he was accused of and he was quite certain that he could get around it. We were actually going in for a lie detector test that he was confident he would pass and I said "Oh, no. No, no, no, time out. We're not doing this, we're not doing this. We're gonna go in, we're going to talk to superiors about what really happened." and he wasn't very happy with my advice. [laughter] He was quite certain that he could pass and get gain, continue in his employment, not have any issues and move forward but we went in and he came clean and it was a very difficult thing for him to do but it was the right thing to do.
0:45:48 KB: A few years later, I had to call to get an accident report on an entirely different matter and I call this number to see if I could get this accident report and I told the officer who I was and he said "Who? Did you say your name's Kamie Brown?" And I said "Yes." It happened to be that same officer that I had represented a few years before that in this matter and he said "I want you to know that that's the best advice I've ever received, to tell the truth." He said "I've been able to get the help that I've needed in different ways. I've been able to maintain my job."
0:46:23 KB: It was a different job but he was still able to maintain his job but that whole getting gain, thinking that you can gain the system thinking that you can get ahead by saying something that isn't true or doing something that you know isn't right, it's no way to live, it's certainly not a way to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, yet it's tempting, it's so tempting to all of us in so many different respects and perhaps that's an extreme example but I will never forget that he happened to answer the phone that day at that time when I called and was able to recognize that he had had a course correction and that he was able to get things squared away. It was a real lesson for me and I was very grateful for it.
0:47:01 TH: Kamie, thank you for sharing that because this is really cool. As you're sharing that, all I'm thinking of is her example is perfect for what Mormon then says to us about how do we not fall after that get gain approach to life? And how do we avoid the Woe Oracle that we just read and he is going to give us this advice in 3 Nephi, chapter 30. In verse 2, here's the advice that Mormon gives us "Turn, all ye Gentiles from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceiving and of your whoredoms and your secret abominations and your idolatries and of your murders and your priestcrafts and your enyings and your strifes and from all your wickedness and abominations and come unto me and be baptized in my name that ye may receive a remission of your sins, that ye be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with the people who are of the house of Israel."
0:47:50 TH: Now, if you read those things in verse 2, for me I'm like "Yeah, I haven't really murdered anybody, I'm not sure if I'm a part of a secret culmination." but when I study these words, then it made me think "Ha-ha, here's our challenge." Okay so on a piece of paper, I want you to number one through five so go ahead and do that because I'm going to give you a little quiz. Sometimes they have these fun quizzes on Facebook and you click on it and you go down this rabbit hole of quizzes for the rest of the day, this is kind of like that but it's a better quiz.
0:48:17 TH: I'm going to give you five different scenarios that describe the wicked ways that we just read about because all of those words are kinda scriptural wicked ways but I want you to know what they are in our real life. So after I give you each description, give yourself a score on a scale from zero to five, okay? Now, zero is, you never struggle with this and five is you always struggle with this. Okay, here we go.
0:48:45 TH: Number one, lying and deceiving, which means leading someone to believe something that is not entirely true. Number two, secret combinations, this would be private actions that are sinful or offensive to God, you just do it in private so nobody really knows. Number three, idolatries, which is giving priority to things of the world over things of God. Okay, number four, priestcrafts, this is participating in religious activities but you glorify yourself rather than serving God and others and the last one is envyings, this is being jealous or resentful of what someone else has. Okay, tally up your score.
0:49:31 TH: Okay, who got a perfect zero? No, I'm just kidding.
[laughter]
0:49:35 TH: I don't think anybody's gonna rank that number but here's what I want everyone to do is look at the highest number you gave yourself though. Of the five questions I asked, just look at your highest number and don't get overwhelmed with the rest, please don't. I believe that by working on one, all the others are gonna fall in place so the challenge is work on that one, study that word, study all the different things that apply to it, work on that and do your best to overcome that and ask Heavenly Father for help and again, if you change your focus, if it's on Christ, you're gonna be able to beat that number.
0:50:13 TH: So as unattainable as a perfect score of five might seem, there is a group of people who did it and so we're gonna read about them in the next segment and what it must have been like to live during that time. I'm thinking, Kerri you would have loved it.
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Segment 5
0:50:35 TH: Ah, 4 Nephi, is there ever a better time in all scripture. How would you describe 4 Nephi?
0:50:43 KB: Heavenly.
0:50:44 TH: I wrote rainbows and unicorns and mystical so great. Lollipops and popsicles. [chuckle] Let's read about this glorious time. Okay, I'm gonna give you some facts about 4 Nephi and then Kerri and Kamie, you're gonna help me teach 4 Nephi, which I'm super excited about. So we're gonna do the who, why, when and where of 4 Nephi. So who wrote 4 Nephi? Mormon compiled and he abridged the records of four writers to create 4 Nephi. The first author is Nephi and this is the Nephi who's the son of Nephi, who was one of the original 12 apostles. So we have that Nephi and then the three other authors, we have Nephi's son Amos, then we have Amos' son Amos and then we have Amos' son Ammaron. So those are the men who wrote this, Nephi, Amos, Amos, Ammaron. Okay, why was it written? Moroni, he did not address the Book of 4 Nephi to any particular audience and he doesn't really state why it's written, however, it does teach us about the blessings that come to the people who repent, who come unto Jesus Christ, who make covenants with him.
0:51:47 TH: It also shows the destructive consequences that occur when people deny Jesus Christ and his gospel. That was interesting. Then the when and where. So the original records used as a source for the Book of 4 Nephi were likely written between 34 AD and 321 AD and Mormon abridge those records sometime between 345 AD and 385 AD. Mormon didn't say where he was when he compiled this book but this is what I wrote at the top of my page of 4 Nephi, 'cause I think this is really interesting. In only 49 verses, that's how we have, 4 Nephi is 49 verses long. The Book of 4 Nephi narrates a period of nearly 300 years, which is almost one-third of the entire Nephi history covered in the Book of Mormon, isn't that powerful? So in 49 verses, we're gonna get a third of the Nephi history that's covered in the Book of Mormon.
0:52:40 TH: So let's go into 4 Nephi. Kamie and Kerri, share with me some of the verses of what stood out like, why is this time so great? What made it great? Why would you wanna live during this time?
0:52:50 KB: Well verse 2, the people were all converted unto the Lord upon all the face of the land and there were no contentions and disputation among them and every man did deal justly with one with another. Who doesn't want that?
0:53:06 TH: Yeah.
0:53:07 KB: Rainbows and unicorn.
[laughter]
0:53:11 TH: I do a peace symbol over verse 2 in a red pencil just to remind me how peaceful it was. Yes.
0:53:18 KB: I love verse 3 "And they had all things common among them, therefore, they were not rich and poor, bond and free but they were all made free and partakers of the heavenly gift." There wasn't a cull system, there weren't people that were looked down on, there weren't people that were slaves. It's just a wonderful time of rich equality among all the people.
0:53:40 KB: I do have a question on verse 3, when it says that "They were partakers of the heavenly gift." what does that mean, heavenly gift?
0:53:48 TH: Okay Kerri, that is such a good question. I'm really glad that you asked that. Let's go to verse 3. For those of you are listening and highlight at the end where it says "And partakers of the heavenly gift." and then I want you just to put verse 5, that's where the answer is. Here's what the heavenly gift is, it encompasses so many things and I'm gonna read verse 5 "And there were great and marvelous works, wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did heal the sick and raised the dead and caused the lame to walk and the blind to receive their sight and the deaf to hear; and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men and in nothing did they work miracles, save it were in the name of Jesus Christ." And in my show notes, I'm gonna leave the reference and another quote that shows and supports that the heavenly gift is verse 5. Did that help answer that question, Kerri?
0:54:34 KB: Yeah, yeah.
0:54:35 TH: Great. That was a great question. I wanna go in to verse 8 of 4 Nephi. I like this verse so much and it's really important that we mark it. verse 8 says "Yea, even that great city Zarahemla did they cause to be built again." And we read a ton of out Zarahemla but it's important for us to know how this name breaks down in Hebrew, especially in light of 4 Nephi. So the word Zarahemla in Hebrew, "zara" or "zera" means seed and "hemla" means to have compassion, seeds of compassion among the people and it just grows. So that's kinda cool, 'cause we've always studied Zarahemla but now we're in 4 Nephi, we're gonna rebuild Zarahemla, a city of compassion, a city of goodness.
0:55:19 KB: So in verse 11 "And they were married and given in marriage and were blessed according to the multitude of the promises which the Lord had made." and verse 12, too just... It just talks about how they still are fasting and praying and meeting together often to... Even though things are pretty much perfect, they're still doing all these things and I think that's just maybe a good reminder to us that we should always be doing these things, not just when times are hard but also when times are good.
0:55:54 TH: I think that's a great example. In fact Kerri, do you have the verse for us about them continuing to meet 'cause we're in a time right now where I've heard so many people say "I don't know if I'm gonna... I wonder how many people are not gonna go back to church when we can actually go back? Maybe we'll just kinda keep it at home." But there is some value in meeting together so Kerri, go ahead.
0:56:13 KB: Yeah so that's at the end of verse 12 "Continuing and fasting and prayer and in meeting together off, both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord."
0:56:22 KB: I think it's so special to be able to meet together and if there's one thing that I've learned from this pandemic is how much I appreciate the opportunity to be in sacrament meeting with my word family, something that I can't create on my own.
0:56:36 TH: You know Cammie and as you were saying and I was thinking and I need my kids to be in the presence of the leaders. There have been times in my life with my children that I have needed the young women leaders. I have been counting on them to help my children who are struggling or needing course correction or advice or just someone to talk to and I wish it was me and it just... Sometimes it isn't but it can be a young women's leader. So I think that there's so much power in what you just said, backing up what you just said Kamie and Kerri. I agree, 100%. That was awesome.
0:57:08 KB: I really also love verse 15, that just says There was no contention in the land because of the love of God and I just think, why do we make things so hard like let's just teach our kids and our families and our friends to just love God and then everything else will fall into place and in 17, it says "They were no manner of ites, there were no Lamanites, no Nephites, no manner of ites." I just love that wording but they didn't segregate themselves from each other, it was just "Here we are. We're a family."
0:57:44 TH: Yeah and Kerri, I love that you brought that up because after the ites it says "but they were one, the children of Christ and heirs to the Kingdom of God." and we've had that discussion before about being one and being united and the power that comes from that and here they are again, they're back to being one. Everyone was the same socio-economic status, everybody took care of each other so the differentiation between them. That was so good. Okay, any other verses in that 4 Nephi?
0:58:08 KB: I love that exclamation point at the beginning of verse 18 and "How blessed were they!" exclamation point. We don't see a lot of exclamation points in the Scripture, at least I don't feel like I run across them very often so I put a big circle around that because I love that emphasis. "How blessed were they!"
0:58:27 TH: Okay Kamie and now I am circling that in my scriptures, thank you for pointing that out. That is so cool because it goes right back to the joy that we feel by being like Jesus and doing His works and being His church so I just thought that was great. Thank you and the cool thing about that is what both of you shared is so in 4 Nephi, the first 18 verses illustrate all the blessings that come from being focused on Jesus Christ and they were experiencing pure joy. Unfortunately, their focus starts to shift and this society gradually weakens until it's almost entirely consumed in sin. We're gonna study that in the next segment.
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Segment 6
0:59:13 TH: Okay, we're gonna go into 4 Nephi chapter one, only one chapter. We're gonna take turns reading these verses, we're gonna read verse 20 and then we're gonna read verses 23 through 26 and as we do, let's look for in Mark what threatened the unity and happiness of the people. Okay? So let's start in verse 20 and Kamie, we'll have you read that and then Kerri we'll go to you in verse 23 and then I'll read a verse and then Kamie and then Kerri.
0:59:36 KB: "And he kept it eighty and four years and there was still peace in the land, save it were a small part of the people who had revolted from the Church and taken upon them the name of Lamanites, therefore there began to be Lamanites again in the land."
0:59:52 KB: "And now now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied, insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land and that they had become exceedingly rich because of their prosperity in Christ."
1:00:04 TH: "Now, in this two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in pride, such as the wearing of costly apparel and all manner of fine pearls and of the fine things of the world."
1:00:15 KB: "And from that time forth they did have their goods and their substance no more common among them."
1:00:21 KB: "And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up churches unto themselves to get gain and began to deny the true church of Christ."
1:00:31 TH: Okay, thank you. So what word would you use to describe what happened to these people?
1:00:36 KB: Pride.
1:00:36 KB: Yeah, pride.
1:00:37 TH: Definitely. In fact, what principle can we learn from these verses? If you could sum it up and tell your kids something about pride, what would you say?
1:00:45 KB: Avoid it at all cost.
1:00:48 TH: Yes.
1:00:48 KB: Beware of pride.
1:00:51 KB: It just leads to sadness, it just... There's nothing good that comes from pride. Nothing good.
1:00:57 TH: Nothing good. In fact, I was thinking that when it comes to the word 'pride' it's almost like on the front of the 'Book of Mormon' where it says "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" It should also say, it should say "Another Testament of Jesus Christ... And the Effects of Pride." or "Another Testament of Jesus Christ... And Pride." Because that is the recurring theme of the 'Book of Mormon,' right? It's Christ, pride, Christ, pride over and over again.
1:01:17 TH: Now, I thought this was kind of fun, for those of us who remember Elder Neal A. Maxwell, I think we can all agree that he was the best at driving home a point with his use of language and carefully crafted sentences. So I actually looked up some of his sentences he's had on pride and I thought it'd be fun to share these and we'll each take a turn reading one 'cause they're fun. There's four of them. Alright Kerri, read the first one for us.
1:01:39 KB: "Pride prefers cheap repentance paid for with shallow sorrow."
1:01:44 TH: Kamie, read the next one.
1:01:46 KB: "Do not let yesterday hold tomorrow hostage! Walk away from your investment in the penny stock of pride; it never pays dividends."
1:01:54 TH: "A person's small puffs of pride are best blown away by the breeze of brotherhood; left alone these become enlarged and dark thunder clouds which drench all round about." And Kerri, read the last one.
1:02:07 KB: "It is possible to have illegitimate pride in a legitimate role or in a deserved reputation; such pride must go to for we are servants of Him who lived His unique life as a person of no reputation."
1:02:21 TH: And we'll have those in our show notes, look over those. Is there one that stood out to you or one that resonated with you?
1:02:27 KB: The last one "it is possible to have illegitimate pride in a legitimate role or in a deserved reputation." and I don't know if I'm understanding that completely right but to me, that means you're doing something good but you're doing maybe for the wrong reason. Having been in a few positions where I was maybe the leader, I had a hard time with maybe delegating or giving someone a responsibility but I wanted it done a certain way. Does that make sense?
1:02:58 TH: Yes.
1:03:00 KB: And I realized thankfully that, that was pretty prideful of me to feel like my way was the only right way to do something or that I was the only one that could do it the way it needed to be done, that perfectionism sometimes can be a real pride problem.
1:03:14 TH: Oh that's a great example. I keep reading that over and over again and it's even becoming more powerful. "Illegitimate pride in a legitimate role." Like "I'm in charge. I'm the one who knows and I've been given this authority." I've thought that before. That's a great one and I think what's interesting, it's pride so subtle, 'cause you would never say "Oh, I'm a very proud person."
1:03:39 KB: Yeah, when I think of pride, I think of those people walking around thinking they're better than everybody else but I think there's so many different ways to let pride ruin your life.
1:03:51 TH: Thank you, Kerri. That was great. Kamie, what about you?
1:03:55 KB: I love the first one. "Pride prefers cheap repentance paid for with shallow sorrow." It's just wreaks of insincerity and that's exactly what Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ do not want. They want our broken heart and our contrite spirits so cheap repentance and shallow sorrow is never going to do it and it's absolutely a form of pride thinking "Oh it wasn't that big of a deal, I can hurry and repent for this. It's all okay." That's hugely prideful.
1:04:24 TH: And it's one of Satans most carefully crafted lies. Wow! I appreciate you sharing that Kamie. I'm glad you liked that. Let's go into 4 Nephi and we're gonna look at how pride drenched everybody and what it damaged. So in 4 Nephi, verses 45 and 46, let's read these two verses to see the result of their pride and Kamie, will you read verses 45 and 46, please?
1:04:48 KB: "And it came to pass that when three hundred years had passed away, both the people of Nephi and the Lamanites had become exceedingly wicked one like unto another." "And it came to pass that the robbers of Gadianton did spread over all the face of the land; and there were none that were righteous save it were the disciples of Jesus and gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance and they did traffic in all manner of traffic."
1:05:14 TH: I mean look back at those verses. They were all wicked, one like unto another and that none were righteous. In fact, they become so wicked and we'll talk about this next week. Mormon points out that even the Three Nephites, they were taken away, they were not even allowed to be among them. That's how wicked they are. So as I was thinking about this and as we've had this discussion, how subtle it can be but how dreadful and hurtful pride can be. I'm just curious, do either of you and I asked you this earlier to think about it, do you have an example when pride damaged happiness or unity or compassion, that you'd be willing to share?
1:05:48 KB: My 14-year-old has experienced some racism. I've adopted two children from Haiti who are now 20 and 14. She has been coming home from school on a pretty regular basis talking about how someone's making fun of her for being Black, the reason that this happened is because she's Black or the reason his pet doesn't like her is because she's Black and it's been a really difficult thing to grapple with and when you're dealing with children, it's especially difficult because she'll believe it. She'll believe that there's a problem because someone said so no matter what it is.
1:06:25 KB: Pride is within all of us but just trying to grapple with that in our home, trying to teach her that she's wonderful, she's a beautiful daughter of God and to not listen to those hurtful comments and then to question within myself "Have I said things like that to anybody? Not necessarily with respect to race but with respect to anything that might have been hurtful or where my pride got in the way of a conversation or a comment that I had with someone and where does that lie within me? And where do I need to work on that?" Because being a recipient of those kinds of comments or hurtful comments, whether intended or accidental, is harmful and hurtful.
1:07:09 TH: And Kamie, that breaks my heart because your 14-year-old, I love her so much, she's one of my young women and it just breaks my heart to think that her heart is being broken by cruel words, I'm so sorry. Sorry. Kerri anything from you? Any story?
1:07:28 KB: I think that, especially the past... I'm gonna get emotional. I've just had a lot of things in my life over the past maybe 10 years that have been really hard and addressing that and just stating out loud saying "You know what, I'm not perfect and that's okay and I don't have to pretend everything's okay and I can ask for help when I need it." You know me Tammy, I like to be a low-maintenance type of person and I'm stubborn, I kinda like to do things myself and not ask for a lot of help and I think I've really learned a lot about myself and just realizing that that is a form of pride. Perfectionism and fear is a form of pride too and I'm just so grateful for the gospel and for the opportunity to repent every day, that challenge you gave a while back to repent every day. Even the little tiny things and I think those types of things help me a lot.
1:08:47 TH: Oh Kerri, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing that because... And I just wanna share this because this is how self-aware Kerri is of her pride; when I asked you to be on the podcast weeks ago, you responded and said 'no' and then a couple of minutes went by and you respond and said "Okay, never mind, I'm working on this part of my pride." you didn't even know this lesson was on pride and you specifically said "I'm trying to work on not being proud and putting myself out there and not being afraid. So I'm gonna say 'yes' but I'm terrified." I just loved how you check...
1:09:17 KB: Oh you have no idea.
1:09:20 TH: You can... You're self-aware, you checked your pride six weeks ago when I asked you to do this and I'm so proud of you. That's a great example. So thank you, thank you for sharing that.
1:09:31 TH: For those of you listening, I just want you to then consider what we've been talking about, consider the roles that you have in different groups that you belong in, such as your family, your friends, your quorums, your classes, the word family, your branches, your schools, your clubs, whatever it is, ponder on whether you have done or are doing anything that manifests pride in that or in those relationships and then think about what you can do to be Zarahemla, think about what you can do to be seeds of compassion for those people to help us all become happy and unified, that's the last challenge.
1:10:01 TH: Let that kind of just play through your mind because that is the guaranteed way for us to sharpen our focus back on Jesus Christ so thank you ladies, that's the end. You did Kerri.
1:10:12 KB: I did it. That was so fun.
1:10:16 TH: It was so fun.
1:10:16 KB: It was really fun.
1:10:17 TH: I loved it. You guys are great. So here's what I wanna ask: What's your takeaway?
1:10:23 KB: I really liked what Kamie said about not beating ourselves up as parents, that we all have agency, we all have agency, including our children. I know.
1:10:38 TH: Unfortunately.
1:10:39 KB: But to me, I think becoming a parent helps you realize that, you know... I can kind of see why Satan presented this plan. That would be a lot easier.
1:10:50 KB: I want the guarantee. A guarantee.
1:10:51 KB: Yeah.
1:10:53 TH: You're telling me I can just come back, no heartache?
1:10:57 KB: But the hard way is often the better way for our growth so we just need to keep trying.
1:11:07 KB: Here's my takeaway and it's a quote from Kerri that sounds like she could totally be Neal A Maxwell "Perfectionism can be a real pride problem." That's what she said, I have it in quotes and I thought that was excellent. "Perfectionism can be a real pride problem." So true. I have the same OCD "What are people gonna think? I'm gonna screw up." And then it keeps us from helping somebody or going to somebody's door "They're gonna think I'm so stupid when I show up and say, 'Been thinking about you.' Why do you think I need special help?" "No, I've just been thinking about... " You just... You second guess yourself and you think they're gonna think I'm stupid if I show up or do something and that's a Satan tool. So anyway.
1:11:51 TH: I love that. Perfection is a... Perfectionism...
1:11:53 KB: Perfectionism can be a real pride problem.
1:12:00 TH: It's great a quote.
1:12:00 KB: It's Kerri Brown.
1:12:00 TH: Kerri Brown. Thank you.
1:12:01 KB: My sister, in the gospel.
1:12:03 TH: Yes. My takeaway, there were quite a few and I think for me though, I really loved how you pointed out, Kamie in verse 18 and "How blessed were they!" 'cause that just drove it home for me, 'cause you read about how... "It must have been nice to be alive then, that seems like great times but how blessed were they!" And it kinda just made me go back to the promise by President Nelson at the beginning that the blessings... We can't even imagine how great the blessings will be by changing our name to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
1:12:34 TH: So there were just so many challenges that came out of this episode and I am so excited to hear what other people's takeaways were at the end of the week and if your takeaway could be maybe a challenge that you took on and how that was, I'd love to hear some feedback about your experience with these many challenges but again, do not be overwhelmed, take a deep breath, only choose one challenge because you know, we don't need that many. One's enough, I think. So anyway, thank you, ladies, thanks for being here with me this week, this was so much fun. I loved everything you said, what a great day. What a great scripture block to study together as friends. I love you both so so so much.
1:13:11 KB: Thank you Tammy.
1:13:13 KB: Love you guys, thank you.
1:13:14 TH: So we would love to hear what your big takeaways were from the episode this week so if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook and if you're not following us on Instagram, you guys, you really need to because it's such a great place to go and ask questions as you study and you can ask me anything throughout the week and I will answer that and at the end of the week, it's usually on a Sunday, we ask for what your big takeaway was. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let me know what you've learned or what challenge you're taking. I read every single one and it's so much fun because I read them and then sometimes on Sunday night or Monday morning, I'll post a little video about someone's takeaway that affected me or that I just really liked so that's fun to read your takeaways.
1:13:48 TH: You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to our show notes for this episode on ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. It's also not a bad idea to go there anyway because that's where you're gonna find all the references for the scriptures and the quotes that we used in this episode, as well as an entire transcript of this whole discussion. So check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to by LDS Living, it's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our incredible study group participants were Kerri Brown and Kamie Brown and you can find more information about these friends of mine at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.
1:14:21 TH: Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and Erika Free. It is recorded and mixed by a Mix at 6 Studios and our executive producer is Erin Halstrom. Thanks for being here, we'll see you next week and please remember this week as you take on these challenges that you are God's favorite.
1:14:38 KB: What is deluge?
1:14:39 TH: Did I just use a word that made me sound smart? I think I did.
1:14:42 KB: Yes, you did.
1:14:43 TH: A deluge, like a big... Just so much water. Just like, just a, just... Yeah, like so much.
1:14:51 KB: Deluge, an overflowing of the land by water.
1:14:54 TH: Thank you.
1:14:55 KB: A deluge.
1:14:56 TH: A deluge of pride over these people.
1:15:00 KB: I did not know that one so.
1:15:02 TH: That's awesome!