32: “A Minister and a Witness” (Acts 22–28)

Tammy 0:00

So I have a quote for you. It is taken from the Church News dated April 22, 1967. It was an article written about the Apostle Paul and Sterling W Sill is the one who wrote it. And here's what he said, "One of the most inspiring characteristics of human personality is having the ability to hold persistent, steadfast, constant and unwavering devotion to a great purpose without complaint or relief." Now if that doesn't describe Paul, I don't know what does. Today we begin our study of Acts chapter 22-28, which contain the final acts or stories of Paul, and it's going to absolutely prove to us that he was persistent, steadfast, constant and unwavering. And boy, he did not complain or get relief when he probably should have.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really Dig Into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, we just want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my friend Melanie Hewlett. Hi Melanie. She is from Cedar City and she and her sisters are doing a beautiful job of taking care of their mother. So thank you, Melanie for your example, and I loved meeting you. Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we have two friends that I just adore. They are Carol and Robin McCulloch. Hi you two.

Carol 1:34

Hey, Tammy.

Robin 1:35

Hello

Tammy 1:35

So we've known each other for about 17 years, we've been in the same ward. How do you two know each other?

Carol 1:41

How do we know each other honey? 35 years later. How, do you really know me?

Robin 1:46

I met this beautiful gal in Philadelphia at a young adult conference. Actually, it was in Lehigh University up in Pennsylvania. And I was from Texas, she was from Utah out there as a nanny and the rest is history.

Tammy 1:59

And there you go. Well, I just love you two. And I have loved being your friend and learning from you and following you. Carol and I, we did some time in the elementary school dressed as grandmas.

Carol 2:10

Yes, we did. Little Martha and Gertie,

Tammy 2:12

I don't know how you roped me into that.

Carol 2:13

Did we have fun or what Tammy?

Tammy 2:18

Oh my gosh, encouraging kids to read - the irony - I don't even like to read. (laughter) And I'm like 'You kids better read.'

Carol 2:28

Amazing what a little granny love will do though, isn't it?

Tammy 2:31

Tell you what. Oh, boy did we have kids reading! Readin for sure! Oh, that was so much fun. I can't believe we did that. We're nuts. I think I still have the wig. By the way.

Carol 2:40

I still have the red lipstick where I was kissing them all on the forehead.

Tammy 2:43

Oh, you were a good, yeah, you were such a good grandma. That was fun.

Carol 2:46

That was fun.

Tammy 2:46

Robin, did you roll your eyes like Jim did every time we left the house?

Robin 2:50

Oh, no, I actually I think I went and helped with a lot of those, you know, but there is a bag full of Granny Gertie costumes along with a big pillow to stick in where the rear end goes.

Tammy 3:01

Oh, sure.

Robin 3:02

But yeah. We keep some place so that if it has to come back it can.

Tammy 3:06

Oh, those were good times. I don't know, maybe we'll have to find that picture and put in the show notes Carol.

Carol 3:10

Oh, wouldn't that be fun?

Tammy 3:12

Yeah, I think we might, I bet there's some floating out there.

Carol 3:13

I think that's my better self anyway. I think that's the picture you should use.

Tammy 3:18

Definitely, definitely. Oh my gosh, okay. Well, if you want to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and check out their pictures. And I think we'll try and find one of us is old little grandmas. And you can find them in our show notes which are at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Okay friends, grab your scriptures, something to mark your scriptures with, and your scripture journal, and we're gonna Dig In to the end of the book of Acts.

Okay, so I did something different, something I've never done before in preparing for a lesson. This time I went on a walk one morning really early before my kids were up, which was surprising. And I listened to Acts chapter 22-28. And as I listened to it, usually I just sit down and read, so that's why it was new. I listened first then I came back and read. And as I did that I had this thought, like, I wonder what my guests would say their takeaway about Paul is. Like what did they learn from him over the course of studying him, and now finishing his story. Because I was just overwhelmed with all that I have learned about Paul and so I asked you two to start with that. Just tell me, what is it? What have you learned from Paul or his example?

Carol 4:21

Well, for me, one of the big things that really stood out to me was in Acts 23:11. Because Paul's in as we know, he's gotten himself into all kinds of trouble and he's having a hard time getting out of it. And the Lord comes to him in verse 11 and says, ".....the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul:" And I just love the thought of the Lord standing by us. He's standing by, He's in the tough stuff, He's in the fire with us, He's doing all those things. He says in 26:17 He has delivered Paul from the people. In 26:22, "Having therefore obtained help of God" is Paul is seeing that, recognizing that the Lord is with them. And then one of my favorites is 27:23, "For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve."

I know whose I am. I'm the Savior's, and I serve Him and I know He's going to be with me and stand by me. It's just beautiful for me to remember that. But I have to tell you that as I was reading about Paul and Felix - who's kind of trying to get some bribe money out of him and so he's gonna keep him for two years - I want to get some money out of him. It reminded me of a story that Austin told us about being in Mozambique on his mission, and I thought, Well, hey, we're talking about missions and being an ambassador, maybe this would be fun for you to hear.

Tammy 5:43

Austin's your oldest son?

Carol 5:45

Austin's our oldest son. He went to Mozambique, and he spoke Portuguese and he was there for two years. And when I reached out to him, he wrote this beautiful story for me, and I thought I would share it with you.

Tammy 5:56

Oh, please do, this is awesome.

Carol 5:58

He said, "Mozambique is a beautiful tropical country located on the southeast coast of Africa, just north of South Africa, with the Mozambique Channel separating it from Madagascar to the east. By most estimates, Mozambique's GDP per capita falls among the top five poorest countries in the world at 500 to 600 per year. Most people live on less than $2 a day. Although living conditions are extremely humble, the people are incredibly generous and are eager to share their culture and what little they do have. While serving in Mozambique, I was fortunate to become acquainted with many brothers and sisters who demonstrated faith that can only be described as biblical. These dear people literally rely on the Lord for their day to day necessities. As a result of this great faith, I was fortunate to witness many incredible miracles as the Lord answered their prayers. Poverty, as most trials are, is a double-edged sword. While poverty drives many to faith and reliance on God, it leads others to desperation.

"For a while I was tasked with maintaining the physical necessities of missionaries in my area. One late evening, my companion and I went to purchase electrical credits for several houses of missionaries. Mozambique runs on a pay as you go grid where you purchase electrical credits in advance and then load the credit to a special breaker box. It was our last stop of the night before returning home. All seemed well as my companion and I pulled up to the electric station and purchased credit. On our way back to our vehicle we were approached somewhat quickly by three police officers, all of whom carried ak 47s. They yelled for us to stop, and all three raised their weapons in our direction. Once they caught up to us, they surrounded us. The leader of the group put the barrel of his gun into my belly and demanded that we give them all the cash we had. Given that the two of us were now very close, I could smell the alcohol on the man's breath.

"At this point, we had already spent all of the money we had on electricity so there was nothing left to give the officers. I remember asking the Lord in my mind for the right words to say. In that moment, I felt inspired to pretend to misunderstand the officer. I told him we were men of God, and that it was very kind of him and his friends to be willing to donate to the Lord. Frustrated and drunk, he continued to reinforce it, he meant for me to pay him. And I kept understanding that he wanted to know where he could donate to our cause. As the officer holding me up became more frustrated, he became increasingly animated, waving his gun around speaking slower and slower so that I would understand him. As he did so the other two officers became more and more amused as their friend started doing silly things to try to get me to understand what he wanted. Eventually, he started laughing at how dumb I seemed to be. That seemed to defuse the situation and he lowered his weapon. We proceeded to talk about how each of them and their families could meet us for church on Sunday. And ultimately, they let us go as friends. There is no doubt in my mind that the Lord was with us that night; the outcome could have been significantly different but for the inspiration we received."

So for me it's just beautiful that the Lord is standing by always.

Tammy 9:10

Wow, Carol, thank you. It was such a good story. Oh, my gosh. He is standing by us always and I'm grateful for that verse that you pointed out to us.

Carol 9:22

It's emotional. I mean, if your son's life is at stake, these are all the things you get when he comes home, you know. And here's Paul, not knowing what's going to happen, and eventually he's going to have to give his life. If we're in the cause of Christ we haven't lost anything. We're saved ultimately, in the Savior's arms always and forever and we get that eternal life with Him. And isn't that a beautiful, beautiful knowledge and what it can do for us as a people to have that reassurance and that understanding that come what may, we follow Christ. We are his whom I serve and that's what Austin did and that's why he was protected and saved because he knew who he was serving.

Tammy 10:04

Wow. Thank you, Carol. Well, I am grateful that you said too, even sometimes when it doesn't turn out like we thought, in the end we are still with Jesus. And I think that's what made Paul so bold is that he knew no matter how this ends, I'm on the errand of Christ and it's going to work out for my best benefit. So I think that's what made him the ability to just do what he knew he needed to do. So thank you for pointing that out Carol, and for sharing that. That was awesome. Robin, what about you? What are your thoughts about Paul?

Robin 10:33

So Paul is an interesting guy. Because from the very beginning you feel his personality coming strong. I mean, there's no question that he's a zealot, right? I mean, he's strong, he has that personality, it's hitting on all cylinders all the time. So the interesting thing to me is, well, that was happening before. Before an angel ever came to Paul he was a zealot. Now maybe on the wrong side, but that was his personality, that's who he was. Once he became converted he was still all in on what he does, he's a 100 percenter, right? So as I'm thinking about that, I look at Paul and I see the Lord saying, 'Look, here's this zealot over here, I can really use this guy on my team, he's somebody, I mean, he's my star quarterback at this point. If I can flip him over, we're going to have him doing a lot of really amazing things for Me, as a, you can call him an ambassador, however you want to state that. This guy's got all kinds of traits and personality that I gifted him as a man. And I can now use those.'

And so once Paul accepts the angel and makes that transition over, he's a zealot for the Lord. I mean, he's all in and he uses what he has and who he was from the beginning in the right causes. To me, that kind of equates over to our Heavenly Father now, right, because we all get gifted with different things. Not all of us are going to have a Paul's personality. That's, that's not necessarily going to be the case, we can still be an ambassador in the way that the Lord wants to use us. If we allow Him to be in our lives and to take us where we're going, if we'll listen to the inspiration, we can be that ambassador in whatever way the Lord can use us and our gifts and our personality. We don't have to be a Paul; I think sometimes in the church, we, you know, not, so I think we're better at it now. But I mean, years ago, I think there was like a formula prescription, you have to be like this to accomplish this.

Tammy 11:57

Right?

Robin 12:20

And I don't, I think we're way better at that now, that the Lord uses us as we are. And if we're willing to let Him use us, then we can accomplish the goals that He has in mind for not only others, but for ourselves the way that it's going to teach us and help us grow, and to become better for ourselves as well. But he can use those traits. And so for me, that was a big takeaway from Paul and, I mean, this is a guy, he's always been this way. Whatever the cause he was into this was it. And, and so the Lord can use that, and He did. And so that's kind of my initial takeaway for Paul.

Tammy 13:12

Oh, my gosh, Robin. I mean, the reason I was looking down and not at you is because I am writing so many notes of what you said, I wrote in my scriptures. I need a 100 percenter. Like, I like how you said that, like the Lord's like, whew, I need a 100 percenter right now to further the work of Christ. And, and you and then I love how you related it to us, like what will He use from us? Like, we're not, we don't have to be a Paul, we just have to be a us, or a me or whatever it is. And the Lord will use our best skill to further His work if we allow Him to. I really like that.

Robin 13:41

I mean, the quietest person out there may have a talent that is going to be used intrinsically to help somebody else, or to further the Lord's work in a way that we don't understand. And I feel like people need to realize that as long as they're willing and open the Lord will use them in ways. But I think it's really important that they realize they don't have to be a Paul, they don't have to be a Peter, they don't have to be you, me, anybody else. They be themselves and the Lord will use them that way.

Tammy 14:11

Boy, absolutely. Amen. Thank you, both of you. Those were great answers. Here's two other quotes about what Sterling W Sill also had to say about Paul ,as well as what Joseph Smith said about Paul. Carol, will you read this first quote for us please, taken from the same article I cited at the beginning.

Carol 14:27

"It is an interesting thing, which we must have thought about that there is nothing mentioned in all the revelations about resignations. Occasionally, he must have thought of the ease and comfort and affluence that might have been his and it must have occurred to him long before 35 years has passed, that he had served his term and would be entitled to a release. But that was not for him. And it is not for us. There can be no such thing as a release in the work in which Paul was engaged. He and we must continue to go on and on to an accelerating pace. We can't work out our salvation in two years, or 10 years, or 20 years."

Tammy 15:06

Thank you. I love that because there was no point, like he could have so been like I'm done, like I'm exhausted. And again, using whatever skill we have, the Lord will use us at an accelerating pace. I love how that was set up so beautifully. Robin, here is what Joseph Smith had to say about Paul. And would you please read that for us, Robin?

Robin 15:26

All right. Description of Paul. "He's about five foot high; very dark hair; dark complexion; dark skin; large Roman nose; sharp face; small black eyes, penetrating as eternity; round shoulders; a whining voice, except when elevated and then it almost resembles the roaring of a lion. He was good orator and like Paul is active and diligent, always employing himself in doing good to his fellow men. Follow the labor of this apostle from the time of his conversion to the time of his death, and you will have a fair sample of industry and patience and promulgating the gospel of Christ."

Tammy 16:02

Awesome. Thank you. So in the next segment, we are going to find out what Paul had to say about himself.

Segment 2 16:08

.....

Tammy 16:18

Let's turn to two scripture references where Paul tells us about himself. So the first scripture reference is 1 Timothy, 1:15. 1 Timothy 1:15. And when we get there, Robin, will you read that for us, please.

Robin 16:34

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Tammy 16:43

All right, what did he just say about himself there?

Robin 16:46

He's a sinner.

Tammy 16:48

Boy, not just A sinner, THE sinner.

Robin 16:50

Chief of 'em.

Carol 16:51

Oh, he's the ringleader, he's the head honcho of all sinners. Good for him.

Tammy 16:55

Whoo. Yeah, chief of sinners. Alright, let's go to this next one. Everyone turn to Acts chapter 22, we're gonna go to two references. And here's what I want you to do: bracket off verses 3-20. So Acts 22, bracket off verses 3-20. And to the outside, I want you to write 'Paul's conversion story.' Now after you do that, turn to Acts chapter 26. We're going to write the same thing and you're going to bracket off verses 9-19. So Acts 26:9-19. And write 'Paul's conversion story.' So Robin, I want to know, then, why do you think Paul, why is it so important for Paul to tell his conversion story before teaching the gospel to some groups of people? He does it often. It's like, probably my favorite quality about him is he just tells his conversion story, what he was like, and what happened to him. Why do you think he does that?

Robin 16:58

Well, I think part of it is that's his testimony. He's testifying to you, I'm telling you the truth and here's part of my testimony. It's like Fast and Testimony meeting getting up and and saying, you tell some story about why you believe the Gospel is true, and that's affected your life and you felt the Spirit during that time period. And then generally speaking, at the end of your testimony, you say, 'And I believe it, and this is why I believe it.' And the story backs up that belief. So he takes his story and he tells people, Hey, this is how I got here. This is why I'm here. This is why I'm an ambassador for the Lord. This is what happened to me.,Ttis is all true, I wouldn't tell you anything false. And that's my testimony and now I'm going to preach you the gospel because I've explained to you why it's true. Now I'm going to tell you what it is so that you can find out for yourself.

Tammy 17:49

Great answer. What about you, Carol?

Carol 17:50

Well, and I also think it makes him relatable, and it makes him human. So you don't have to be perfect to be a saint or to start in any kind of a direction that way. He's not. I mean, 'I'm, I was at a, I was going down a really bad path. But look, there's redemption for everybody. And it's human to make mistakes and do those things. And yeah, I've made some really, really bad mistakes. But guess what, there's hope in all of this.'

Tammy 19:11

Absolutely. And I had both of you read his conversion stories, both of these. Is there anything you marked in either one of these conversion stories that stood out to you? Because they both are a little bit different from the actual story from Acts chapter 9 where we hear his original conversion story, but the differences are powerful I thought. Is there anything you marked?

Carol 19:29

Well, so kind of what really stands out to me - and so I'm back to it being a story of redemption - for me, that's really what this is about when he's giving his story. Because he says in 22:4 "And I persecuted this way unto death, binding and delivering unto prisons, both men and women." If you jump in 19 and 20 in the same chapter of 22, "And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the rainment of them that slew him."

To me that's very powerful about what Robin's saying; he was all in on that other side, this 100% But what he was doing, and it reminded me of Alma the younger when you - wow, you know - he's gonna have to have this big aha moment. And he does. And the most amazing thing to me is, it's just fascinating. So if you go to 22, Chapter 22:13, so he's had this awakening. The Savior comes, He's talking to him, 'You're persecuting Me. Who are you? Well, that's Me, it's the Savior, you're persecuting Me. Ah, okay. And now I can't see because of the light. And he just sends him off and says, Okay, you're gonna meet someone and he's gonna help with your sight. But look what it says there in verse 13: 'And he came and stood and said unto me,' so he's now he's come and Ananias was a devout man according to the law, in verse 12, and he's a Jewish man who's devout in the law, and he's coming to Ananias.

This is what Ananias says to him: "Brother Saul, receive thy sight." Is that not magnificent? He's going to call him Brother, after Saul has just said I've been beating people, holding the coats of people that are stoning Steven. I've been doing these terrible horrible things. And immediately Ananias is able to forgive him and call him Brother Saul. I think sometimes that's hard for us to do, to just forgive like that and let that go, and when it's been so personal. And then it's just amazing to me, because he doesn't let Saul wallow in his misery - or Paul - let's call him Paul now. He's not gonna let him wallow in that misery. Look at 16. He says, "And now why tarriest thou?" What, guy? You're on a mission. now. I've got something to do so you can't sit here and feel bad about yourself. Get up, get going, get baptized, wash away your sins - in verse 16 - and be on your way, because you're going to be this powerful witness now and you have to go.

Isn't that marvelous that we can go and become? And then if we jump into chapter 26:18. So we'll just go into that little piece because that's his other conversion story. But then what does the Savior say He wants him to do. He says, 'so you're now going to - let's go to verse 18 - 'you're going to open their eyes, and turn them from darkness to light,' just like it's been done for him, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may - here's your constant - "they may receive" what? "forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by the faith that is in me." I'm going to give them forgiveness and inheritance and eternal life. They're going to have peace and prosperity, that's what that means. And now that you've been converted, what Jesus says to Peter in Luke 22:32, "when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." Now, Paul, you see the vision, please go and do this for Me and open their eyes as yours eyes had been opened', and how he becomes this powerful, powerful witness and testifier of Christ. And I love it. I love the story of redemption.

Oh, I love it. Do! Give us that reference again in Luke.

It's Luke 22:32.

Tammy 23:15

Perfect. Thank you. I'm so grateful you brought that in, "Saul, when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." And yet again, you pointing out he received sight and now his job is to help others. So Carol, thank you. That was so good. Ah. Robin, what did you mark in his conversion story?

Robin 23:23

Carol's handled most of that. I'd say that the one thing that I thought was really interesting is that everybody that's with him sees the light, but only Paul hears the voice. I'm assuming he talks to them later and says, Hey, didn't you hear that? They're like, No, we didn't hear anything. What are you talking about? He says, Well, yeah, He spoke to me and talked to me. And so you're seeing the light, but you're not hearing the voice. So the message is for Paul, specifically, even though others were there. The message is specific. So a lot of times I feel like that's the same for us. I mean, messages are specific from the Lord for us. Others may be involved in something.

I feel like it's being, it's being in a Sacrament Meeting and hearing a talk and you feel the Spirit just testify to you heavily that what's being said and it really strengthens your testimony. And you turn to somebody that's right beside you and you go, Wow, that was crazy impressive, wasn't it? I mean, didn't you feel that? And they look at you go, Oh, no, not really. I didn't, you know, it didn't affect me that way. Okay. So the Lord knows us individually and He's touching us individually, to use us individually. And so that just kind of expressed that to me when He says, Paul says, Well, everybody sees the light but I'm the only one who heard the voice.

Tammy 24:44

Wow. Thank you Robin.

Carol 24:46

Is that the same case with Alma the younger - was he the only one that the angel was talking to? The sons of Mosiah, his buddies, are with him, but they don't hear that. Is that right? It was just Alma the younger, so very similar that way.

Robin 25:32

Same thing.

Tammy 24:58

Same, yeah. I'm grateful that you brought up Alma the younger because again, like I've said, these are the two men I love the most. Because as you said, Carol, they're real and you hear their stories. And I think sometimes we have kind of shied away from sharing our conversion stories. And I think if we shared them more often, especially to the youth of the church, they would go, Oh, there is hope. I mean, the Scripture stories are great, but again, if you know someone in your real life who has a conversion story, it hits you in your heart. And then you say there is hope for all of us. And so I know it's personal, but I did ask if either one of you would be willing to share your conversion story.

Robin 25:34

So so the beauty of this, Tammy, is is that everyone has specific gifts given to them. And Carol has been given the gift of testimony. She didn't really go through any kind of conversion, because she's always had a testimony, there's never been any question in her mind that there was a testimony. It's rock solid. She has eight brothers and two sisters, and she has a brother who falls into the exact same category as her. Not all of her brothers, by the way, but one of her brothers falls into that exact same category, they have been given that gift. So we were talking about it and she's like, Well, I don't know how to share that with them because she's always had it, since she was little. Now for me, I grew up in the church, had amazingly faithful parents, grew up in the Air Force, lived all over the world. My mother was, became ill when I was young, and was ill most of my life until I was 12 or so. And then she was a complete invalid until she passed away.

So as I tried to navigate that, as a youth, I decided to experience some of the things of the world and see what I thought about all that. And there came a time period around I'd say 13/14, yeah, probably in there. And it was time to make some choices on the path I was going to take, bcause things that I was doing were going to take me someplace that was going to be far enough away from the church. So it was going to be really hard to get back if I followed that choice. And so, as I looked at the whole thing as a whole, I'm, uh, I'm kind of analytical, let's see how this works.,what are the pros and cons kind of deal? And I looked at it, and I said, Okay, now if I go on this path, this is where it's going to take me. I'm looking at these types of people, this is the kind of life they have, is that what I want? Or, I have the other path, I look at this, look at my own parents, look at my father what he's chosen in his life and the path that has taken him in, and how does that all work out.

And I decided, when I was about 14, that it made a lot more sense to follow the path of the church. I had no idea if it was true or not, it just seemed to me that that was going to be a better outcome for my life as a whole, so I chose that path. Once I, once I chose that path was I perfect at it? No. But I decided that was where I was going to stay along those lines. And as I did that, then it was incremental, right? It's a little here a little there. It's, Okay, well, now I'm gonna go to church, because I've decided I'm going to do that. Now I'm going to try and live the Word of Wisdom because those are the things. And then through living the principles, you start to see the blessings. And then the Spirit testifies to you of those things at some point.

Now, even then, you know, I think by the time I went on my mission, I feel like, I felt like the church was true. I don't know, I hadn't had any epiphany, but then I went on a mission. And it wasn't, I didn't really - especially the first part of it like most missionaries at that point - it was not very exciting, very fun, or anything else. So you spend a lot of time in the MTC on your knees going, Why am I here? And is this where I'm really supposed to be? And you know, you do that for a few weeks in the MTC and eventually, I didn't, again, no lights, no voices, but I did get this strong impression. It's like, Why do you keep asking Me this? You already know this is where you're supposed to be be so I don't even know why you continue to ask Me this question. And that was kind of a testimony in itself. So over the course of my life it's just continued to build as I stayed committed. So it took the commitment to cause a conversion to happen. So not really very exciting, Tammy. I'm sorry, that's just, it's just,

Tammy 29:31

That's a great conversion story. Here's what I like about it, Robin. It's your conversion story, specifically, the way you described yourself, very analytical. Not many people would say "I weighed out the pros and cons." Like, as you were saying that I'm like, Of course that's Robin's conversion story. That is how he thinks, that's how he runs his business. Like he's very, it's an obvious choice. You weigh out and I think that is so great, because not everyone's going to have the same experience when they're trying to decide to stay in the church. But they'll have the experience that's specific for them, just like Paul did, just like Alma the younger. Sometimes we're like, Why can't we have these big, you know, Jesus coming to us and there's a pillar of light or whatever moment. And I wonder, because maybe we don't all need that. But every one of us at some point in our life has a moment of conversion, or many moments for that matter, consistently being reconverted and converted over again in the way that's specific to us. So I, that's what I learned from your experience, Robin. So thank you for sharing that.

Robin 30:30

And that's what I would say Tammy. Really it's a cumulative thing. Obviously, it became strong enough at an early enough age to push it all the way through. But it, it came from doing, it didn't come from just, Oh, well, I hope it happens. I had to do something about it for that conversion to come,

Tammy 30:54

Yeah

Robin 30:52

and for me. And that was what made the difference was the doing.

Tammy 30:56

Boy, absolutely I will back that up. It is absolutely in the doing. And even before that, in the questioning, in the wondering, and then that moved you. So thank you, Robin, I really appreciate you sharing that. And I just encourage everybody - share your conversion story. Because like you said, it makes you real and there is power in that story. And that's why Paul, for me, that's why Paul shares it. There is so much power in that. And people go, 'Oh, all right. You know what?' Or even, 'I remember you, you were awful. And now look at how your heart has changed.' Like there is so much power in conversion. So thank you for sharing your story. And you can definitely, for me, you feel it. You feel the power and truth of Robin's words as the Spirit was like, Yeah, what he's saying is right. So thank you so much for sharing that Robin. Now in the next segment, then, we're going to check out and read several specific examples of good that came from Paul's willingness to be vulnerable and share his conversion story. We'll do that next.

Segment 3 31:52

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Tammy 32:12

All right, so I have some pictures to show you. For those of you listening, I have pictures of two women and two men. And it's just a shot from their shoulders up with an American flag behind them. So here's my question: Any ideas what same job these people might have? And I'll be wicked impressed if you know their jobs.

I don't know.

Oh, that's a great guess. Something in the government, right, with the flag.

Robin 32:35

Yeah, it just looked like government because of the flag that makes it, lend you to believe that. And one's wearing a red tie so you would think he's a Republican.

Carol 32:43

She's in a red dress. Oh, good job, Robin.

Very good.

Tammy 32:46

There you go. What about the one in purple, what does that mean? No, I'm just kidding. Don't answer that. Okay, very good guesses. I would never have known ever in a million years. But the reason why I wanted to put their pictures up is because these people are United Sates ambassadors. Now, what does an ambassador do?

Robin 33:03

An ambassador represents your country to another country, and they are the spokesperson for that country to the other country. And they have the opportunity to then engage, generally it's a lot of political engagement. But if you want to let another country get some backdoor information about something that's going on that you need information about or that you'd like to get information about, a lot of times the ambassador is the way that you do that, because these ambassadors are staying in a host country. If you're the ambassador to Great Britain for the United States, then you can go meet with the representative of the UK right there in their own confines and have a discussion about what you're concerned about. And generally speaking, a lot of the things that are happening in government are happening between ambassadors because that they have that open communication, hopefully, to communicate their country's wishes. Now, when the microphones aren't on, I think they discuss ways to try and help their countries get along better and do some of these other things. But officially, when they're making official statements, they're representing to that other country, their country.

Carol 34:16

Awesome explanation, Robin, that was spot on perfect. The pictures I showed you - we had the ambassador to the Netherlands, Liberia, Sri Lanka, and the Security and Cooperation in Europe, I thought that was really interesting. Now, I want us to be thinking about this word, 'ambassador', because that is what Paul now becomes. In fact, I did have to look up the definition and this is what I read: "An accredited diplomat sent by a country as its official representative to a foreign country, or a person who acts as a representative or promoter of a specified activity." And I thought, Oh, that's Paul, official representative of Christ, promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so I asked my guests to look for examples of how Paul was an ambassador and the two of them are going to share stories later on. What we want to first do is look up 2 Corinthians 5:20 where Paul uses this word, ambassador. So that's 2 Corinthians 5:20, and Robin, will you just read that for us.

Robin 35:16

"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God."

Carol 35:24

There it is. We are ambassadors for Christ. And so Paul will show by example how he is an ambassador. He is accredited, he is sent to represent Jesus Christ and to promote Christianity. So we're going to look at examples of Paul being an ambassador. So let's do this, first things first. Turn to Acts chapter 21. This is my only complaint - not really a complaint - but the Come, Follow Me lesson actually ended last week with Acts chapter 21. And it leaves you hanging. And I was like, Oh, we should have had 21 this week, because look how Acts chapter 21 happens. So the way it leaves you hanging is Paul journeys to Jerusalem. He participates in temple rituals, and then he's accused of polluting the temple with the Gentiles. So he's bound and then he asked to speak on his own behalf. He's like, Let me just tell you my story and why I'm here. So if you go to Acts chapter 21, here's how it ends, this is how the chapter ends. And then you have to wait a whole week. Here we are, you've waited.

Tammy 36:19

39 and 40 says, "But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no means city: and I beseech thee, suffer me to speak into the people.' So as you're saying, let me just speak. And then 40: "And when He had given him license, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying," It just stops right there.

Robin 36:44

There it is.

Tammy 36:45

There it is. What did he say?

Robin 36:47

Come next week, next week.

Carol 36:48

Yeah

Tammy 36:48

Stay tuned. So here we go. Here's what he says, Acts chapter 22. We already know he shares his conversion story, and you have that marked. And then he says, "I'm a Roman." And because he tells them he's a Roman, he is then loosed from his bands, and Paul speaks to the chief priests. Then we go to chapter 23. In chapter 23 he meets before the chief priests and in verse 2 and 3, they smite him on the mouth, like they unlawfully slap him. It's awful. And the Jews conspire to kill him in this chapter. And then mark verses 16-21, and this is where we get to find out that Paul has family. Verse 16 tells us that he has a sister, and his sister's son, or Paul's nephew actually saves Paul. And he goes to the people in charge. 'Look, Paul is, he's a good guy. You just let him speak his words.' And so as he does that, Paul is delivered then to Felix the governor, and they are like, Okay, well let you speak to Felix, the governor. So then go to Acts chapter 24. Acts chapter 24. He's allowed to speak to the governor, and he's accused of sedition,.

But they invite a skilled orator and his name is Tertullius in chapter 24. And Tertullius accuses Paul, and Paul tries to defend himself. And then you have this story where he actually is asked for a bribe. Felix is like, well, if you just pay me, then I think we'll be good. And Paul's like, 'Yeah, I'm not gonna.' That reminds me of your story you told at the beginning, Carol, like, I don't have any money. I'm a poor missionary. So I'm imagining he talked himself out of it in some clever way. But because he didn't pay the bribe, this is in Acts 24:26, 27. They kept him for two years on house arrest. So that's chapter 24.

Then turn to chapter 25. While he's under house arrest, then he's allowed to speak to Festus. Now Festus is the new governor who took over Felix's spot. And he speaks to Festus and he says, 'Look, let me just go speak to Caesar.' That's what Paul asked, 'Can I just speak to Caesar, the person in charge? Send me back to Rome so that I can say what I know I need to say.' And in this chapter Festus and the King Agrippa, they talk back and forth about the case of Paul. And King Agrippa decides, 'You know what, let me hear from Paul. I'd like to know what he has to say.' So turn to Acts chapter 26. Paul then gets brought before King Agrippa and he speaks to him. And we have some very moving words from Paul to the king. And they're so moving that you're going to love how the story ends. So grab your scripture marker and we're just going to mark some of these moving words that Paul said to the king. Here we go. We're going to start with verse 2. Will you read that for us, Carol.

Carol 38:27

"I think myself happy, King Agrippa, because I shall answer for myself this day before thee touching all things whereof I am accused of the Jews:"

Tammy 39:37

You want to circle the word' happy'. In Greek this is translated as blessed or fortunate. So he's actually saying, 'I think myself blessed or fortunate because I get to answer for myself this day.' Go to the end of verse 3. And he says, ".....I beseech thee to hear me patiently." Like just give me a chance. Listen. Then he says, the end of verse 5. Well, the beginning of verse 4. He says: " My manner of life from my youth, which was at first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee." Then he says, "And now I stand and am judgeed for the hope of the promise made of God into our fathers:" And then we come to verses, bracket off verses 8-18. And Carol, you did a beautiful job of of having us mark verse 18 right there. And then he gives his conversion story, you have that marked already. After he gives his conversion story. - Robin, will you please read verse 19, and then skip down to verse 22 and 23.

Robin 40:39

"Whereupon, O King Agrippa I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Thank you. There's that light like you said. His goal is to bring them light. He says that and Festus freaks out in verse 24. Robin, give us your best Festus. Here we go.

"And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad."

Tammy 41:32

That's good one, good one. Robin read his answer in verse 25.

Robin 41:36

"But he said, I'm not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness."

Tammy 41:42

Thank you. And as he continues to speak, Carol, will you please read for us 26-28.

Carol 41:48

"For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner. King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian."

Tammy 42:10

Thank you. Highlight verse 28. What do you think about that?

Carol 42:17

Oh, that's a lot of us. The "almost" will kill us.

Tammy 42:22

Oh, I'm gonna put that: "the almost will kill us." Oh, that's good, Carol.

Carol 42:26

If we, we almost will get the blessing if we almost will try it, or we almost will be truly converted, we almost might get there. But the almost snags us, it holds us up. It holds us back from getting where we really want to go, I think.

Robin 42:44

Well, and also I feel like 'you almost convinced me to be a Christian.' But the only person who convinces anybody to be a Christian is Christ. So Paul may, I mean, he's His ambassador, he's representing Him. And he's giving him reason and speaking to him and helping him understand. But I would suggest that, that the spirit in that room as he spoke to Agrippa was testifying of Paul's words. And when Agrippa says that, he's been feeling something. I mean, he, he's got a little inkling back there going, Hey, this guy is not far off. And yeah, I'm, I'm feeling like there's some truth happening here. And, yeah, if I wasn't in my position and didn't have everything to give up, and which, no way I'm going to do that, I might be, I might be convinced by, I think it's Paul. But really, it's the Spirit.

Tammy 43:37

Ooh, excellent. I love how you described that. And how much do I like 27 when he says, "King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets?" And then it was almost like the Spirit said to him, No, you tell him. Like, I know that thou believest. He didn't leave it a question, he just made this statement, this doing what Paul does best. This boldness like, No, you do believe the prophets. And I wonder if at that point is what pricked his heart like, and then going what you said, Robin, feeling the Spirit. But oh, "thou almost". That is great. The almost will kill us. That is so good.

Robin 44:07

Another, I mean, he's just, and when he says, "I know that thou believest, it's just, he's testifying again. So it's going to bring the Spirit, right. Yeah, I'm testifying that, I know you believest. And boom, the Spirit comes, Agrippa feels it. Again, he doesn't know what the Spirit is, he thinks maybe it's Paul. But my guess is that the Lord's there.

Carol 44:29

And change is scary, and being fully converted, like you said earlier, how it takes effort. It's going to take work, it's going to take action, it's going to take having to do something probably that you're going to be uncomfortable about doing, especially for King Agrippa. So the almost is going to save them and kill them at the same time. Right? It's going to save him from himself and gonna not quite get there.

Robin 44:52

And it just so reminds me of the story of Nicodemus.

Tammy 44:55

Oh, yes,

Carol 44:56

yes

Tammy 44:56

Thank you.

Robin 44:57

Just so much like Nicodemus. I mean, although Nicodemus is probably a lot further along than Agrippa, but I mean, he's, he knows. He just can't give it up.

Tammy 45:06

Oh, Robin, I'm grateful you brought that up because one of the things that I've learned as I've been reading these last couple of chapters of Acts, is so much of Paul's experience mirrors the Savior's. If you look at story for story, a lot of scholars have then compared similar stories, and this is one of them, is that his King Agrippa was almost a Nicodemus experience. And in the next segment, we're going to tell stories of Paul being an ambassador, like one who was sent by Jesus as an official representative promoting the gospel of Jesus Christ. So up next, we're gonna discover another story of Paul as an ambassador on his way to Rome to appear before Caesar. And Robin's gonna help tell us that story. I can't wait.

Segment 4 45:45

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Tammy 46:05

All right, I asked Robin to tell us the story in Acts chapter 7. And I said earlier, like, as I was reading it, the thought immediately came: Robin. Like there's no one else that could tell this story better. So I don't want to set you up to fail, but I'm really excited for you to tell us this awesome story.

Robin 46:21

Now I'm concerned.

Tammy 46:21

No pressure

Carol 46:22

But he IS a boater, so he's got that.

Tammy 46:25

Yes, he's a boater, he probably, he knows way more about this than I ever would. So hit it, Robin.

Robin 46:30

Okay. So you know, I find it interesting that really Paul's "get out of jail card" is that he's a Roman. Otherwise he never would have made it to this point. I mean he's, and he's pulling this card on a regular basis, which is a good thing and says, you know, so at this point, he's like, Well, get me to Caesar. Well, I, you know, he's down here where Turkey is now. He's, got to get, somehow he's got to get there. So the Mediterranean is that vessel. That's how you're gonna get there is you're gonna get on a boat. So the Centurion says, Okay, yeah, let's throw you on a boat. We'll start heading out, and of course they, when you think about boats, this isn't, you know, this isn't Oasis of the Sea Royal Caribbean. This is a wood boat with 260/200, well, not this boat, but next boat, with 260-70 people on it. And it's driven by sails. And that's how you're gonna get places. So you're dependent upon the wind and the seas and the time of year and all those types of things.

So they get, he gets on a boat with a centurion and they head up. And they get up a little ways and he says, Okay, to get you all the way we're going to have to change boats. He finds another boat. At that point, it's, there's a lot going on here that's interesting, because if you're a prisoner, he lets Paul off the boat and says, Well go visit with folks for a minute and, you know, replenish yourself or refresh yourself and then I'm going to put you on this other boat to get you off to Caesar. So because he's a Roman citizen, he's being afforded a lot of luxuries that he wouldn't - I call them luxuries - but a lot of leeway that he probably wouldn't have in another situation, even because he's still supposed to be a prisoner that's being transported, but he's a Roman. All right, so they enter the ship, and I will destroy this name: Adramyttium.

Oh, that's nice, that sounded really good. It looked daunting, in verse 2?

Right. So in verse 2, Adramyttium, they get on the ship and they're-you're sailing along this coast. So you're along the southern coast of Turkey, which would be Turkey now. And at that point, you touch down in Sidon, right? Okay, so they get there and Julius, who is the Roman centurion who's in charge of Paul at this point, he lets them and the other prisoners off. He says, Hey, go, you have liberty, you can go ashore, you can refresh yourself. Obviously, Julius trusts Paul, that he's going to come back. And from there, they launch and they're on their way. And they sailed under Cyprus along the leeward side. Now, there's a lot of these references that are going on here, because they're sailing. So you have to be protected. You have to have the wind going the right direction, that kind of thing, to get your sailboat to move along that way. And the winds weren't blowing in the right direction, they're blowing contrary, so they had to go on the leeward side to get around. And they sailed over the sea to Cilicia and came to Myra, a city in Lycia, in verse 5.

And at that point, the centurion is going to find another ship to send them all the way on into Italy. And he finds the ship out of Alexandria, and it's sailing into Italy, "and he put us" on the ship. So he transfers him. So the original centurion's now transferred him to somebody else, and he's now on a different ship. So when they start sailing again, they're sailing but they're going slowly because the winds are not blowing very well. So it's taking a lot of extra time to make this distance. And again, there's a lot of sailing references in here because they gotta be on one side of Crete or the other side of Crete to get the wind to blow correctly. And it's just difficult because it takes a long time for them to get there because the winds aren't blowing the way they want. In verse 8, they find themselves in Fair Havens. And the issue here is it's taken them way too long to get to Fair Havens because of the winds and the way they had to travel.

And, you know, when we get on Royal Caribbean now, in seven days you've gone, you know, hundreds and hundreds of miles. This is a sailing vessel, it takes a long time to go anywhere. So it's taken them a very long time to make it to Fair Havens. They get to Fair Havens and Paul says, Look, continuing on from here is not going to be a really good thing that we want to do, it's going to be dangerous. And in fact, we're the wrong time of year. He mentions a fast in verse 9, he talks about, become "the fast was already past." Well, that fast has reference to the public fast which was required by the Law of Moses, and that happens in the Fall.

So the Fall was too late a time to be traveling in this part of the Mediterranean. The weather is going to be really bad and Paul says, This isn't when we want to do this. And not only I perceive, so he's inspired, the Lord tells him. Says, Look. In verse 10 he says, That this voyage will be with much with hurt and much damage, not only of the lading of the ship, or the cargo, but also for our own lives. I mean, this is a perilous journey, and we're going to lose the ship, we're going to lose our lives, it's not the right time to go. But the Centurion at that point, says, Well, you know what, Paul, we got a master of the ship, let's ask him. What does he say? He says, Oh, no we're good, let's go. Paul says, It's not good. But the Centurion believes him and says, Okay, nope, you're on, on you go. Off, we leave. And in Fair Haven, there's no place for the 270 people to winter nicely, you know, it's not a, it's not a resort town. And they don't really have accommodations. So everybody's like, no, let's go. I don't want to hang out here, let's move on. The ship Master says it's okay, so let's go. But

Sounds like our pioneers: We have nowhere else to go, we're going.

So they take off, and they head out. And as they start to go, of course the problem is going to be is that all the things that Paul said are absolutely true. The wind's not blowing very well and it's blowing the wrong direction. And so, again, they're losing time. And then the worst possible thing that can happen in the Mediterranean or any body of water, waves go from almost nothing to 6,7,8 feet very quickly and everybody's in peril immediately. The power of water is incredible. If you've ever been caught in it, it's scary. In our own boat, it'd be like, Okay, everybody, you know, supposed to have life jackets, get them on. Now it's time, get them on. If the engine fails, we're toast here. Well, in this particular case, these guys were in a boat with sails and this tempest starts to arise. In verse 14, it says, but not long after there arose against it a tempest and a wind called Euroclydon, okay, a Northeastern. It's a severe northeast wind, and it just blows like crazy.

So the ship gets caught, and they can't pack, they can't do the other things they want to do with this ship in a proper sailing manner. So they just let the ship go with it. It's like, okay, it's just gonna blow us. And off we go with this wind because we can't control the ship at this point. And at some point,they say, Look, we've gotta drop the sails here and just, it's going to take us where it takes us. Because leaving the sails up is going to kill us. So now they're running along. And as they move into this situation, it gets so bad, this tempest gets so bad that they undergirded the ship. When you undergird a wooden ship, you're going to string ropes underneath the entire whole of the ship and tie it off on the tops and the bottoms. You're trying to physically hold the wood together, the planks on the side of this boat. That's how concerned they were is because they've pulled this up and they've girded it so that it wouldn't happen and they're concerned because they're just getting pushed in an area that they don't have any control over. They're worried about hanging sandbars. This is not good.

In 18 it says, "And we being exceedingly tossed with a tempest, the next day they lightened the ship." So now we're gonna throw all our cargo over. So Paul had already told them, Hey, you're gonna lose your lading. So we're already into the first part where your cargo is already out the ship. We're losing that because we're throwing it to lighten the ship because we want the ship to ride as high in the waves as we possibly can. We don't want it sucked down because then more waves come over into the ship.

Tammy 54:58

Oh, so that's what the word lading means it's your stuff?

Robin 55:01

That's your cargo, lading is your cargo.

Tammy 55:03

Cargo in verse 10. Okay. I'm gonna write that, I did not know that, lading is cargo.

Robin 55:07

So you're throwing, you're throwing all your cargo off. And at that point that was the cargo, that was what they were hauling. In the next verse, now they're throwing their tackle, they're throwing their equipment. So you're taking things that you physically use to make the ship function, and you're throwing them overboard. I gotta get this ship light, I don't care what it takes, we've got to throw this stuff overboard. And it's so, the tempest is so strong, neither the sun nor the stars for many days appeared, in verse 20. It's that dark, it's that dark cloud that's completely covering them. And it says at the end of 20, it says, ".....all hope that we should be saved was then taken away." They, they are pretty sure they're going to die. Right? This is what's going to happen, we are going to die. And during this time period they've been, they've decided to fast for awhile. We need some additional help here, let's see if that can happen. Right? And Paul stands up and says in verse 21, he says, "Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me," You know, it's like I told you so kind of deal.

Tammy 56:12

I know, I love that about Paul.

Robin 56:15

and not have loosed from Crete, we shouldn't have left. And now we're going to have this harm and this loss and all these things that I told you were going to come. The Lord told me that's the way it was and of course, there it is. But you know what, with all those bad things that are happening, now I exhort you to have, "Be of good cheer." Here's the reason to cheer up. You know what? I had an angel come to me and he said, Paul, you're going to make, you, you've got to get, your mission, your ambassadorship is to be in front of Caesar, you're going to make it. And in fact, not only are you going to make it, everybody on board the ship is going to make it, which is an interesting statement, because we'll see here a little later on, but it had to be everybody. But he says you're all going to make it. So after Paul gets up, says, 'Okay, I told you so, I told you this was going to happen, you never should have left, you did it anyway.

But here's the good news: an angel has come to me and we're all going to live, we're all going to make it. And I can tell you that and I testify that because I am an ambassador of the Lord, basically, "whose I am and whom I serve", in verse 23 he says right at the end. And the angel says, "Fear not Paul; thou must be brought....". So be of good cheer everybody, and we're gonna make it, we're going to be cast onto a certain island, but you're just going to have to hold on. You're gonna have to trust me, and we're going to eat something now. It's time to have that little something to eat. First, you may be throwing up because you've been getting seasick the whole time, but you're getting pretty hungry.

So the interesting thing is that now we're into the 14th night, 14 days of this on a ship like that in those kinds of waters. You're just absolutely worn out. I don't, anybody who's even gone on a cruise on a medium-sized cruise ship, when you've been on there without hardly any motion, when you get off the ship, the dock moves. You'll feel the dock moving under your feet for about three or four days. If you've been on one of these ships for 14 days with that kind of activity, your sea legs are going to be really rough. Your stomach, everything about your head, you're not going to be feeling very well. There's going to be a lot going on there. So at this point, they, on the 14th day, they now had something a little bit to eat. And then they threw all the rest of the food overboard. So we've got to get some more weight out of the ship. At this point they're sounding. And Tammy, I don't know if you know what a sounding is but it's a rope. And it has, a sounder has a weight on the end, and then there's knots on the rope. And the knots are every X amount of fathoms or meters.

And so you throw the rope out until it hits the ground. And then you pull the rope up and you count the knots and that tells you how deep the water is. So they start sounding, when you throw it off it's sounding. So they throw it in and they start sounding and what they find is that it's getting shallower. So they're obviously headed towards some kind of land. And now that kind of freaks them out again, because we can't control the ship, we don't know where we're going to land, what are we going to run into. If we hit a sandbar, etc., we're going to be in trouble. So at this point they say it's getting shallower, we're gonna throw some anchors out. So they throw four anchors out the back of the boat to slow it down so that it doesn't just keep going. And at the same time, a couple of some of the guys go, Okay, this is a good time to get out of here. We're gonna lower a lifeboat and out we go. We're running for the hills. Everybody else is gonna be on them. And they start to lower this lifeboat and Paul says to the captain, he says, Hey, the Lord said it's all or nothing. Everybody's got to stay, that's how it works, that's what the angel said.

And the captain cuts the ropes on the lifeboat and lets it go so that the guys can't get in the lifeboat and leave the boat. So all of them are still there. They have the anchors on, they realize that they're slowly moving in and then they see a coast of land, they see an opportunity, they see a spot where they can get into. So they loose the ship and they head in towards this cove, it's going to be a little bay area with a little cove. And prior to actually beaching on the main beach, they hit a sandbar. So the front of the boat buries into the sand, the rear of the boat is just getting hammered by these waves, and it starts breaking up. At this point, the chief soldiers say, All right, well let's kill all the prisoners - we're responsible for these guys - let's just kill them all and then we'll go on into the land. And the centurion in charge of this says, No, no. We're not killing Paul, we're not killing the prisoners. Everybody that can swim, jump off and swim in. Those that can't swim, as the boat breaks up grab a piece of wood and float in. And the bottom line is everyone survived. The ship, the lading - cargo, everything else was gone, just as Paul said. But everyone kept their lives which is a miracle, absolute miracle in those kinds of conditions. But nobody lost their lives.

Tammy 1:00:12

Boy, never did that quote at the beginning make more sense than now. Persistence, steadfast, constant, unwavering. Saying that on a boat, you win. Oh my gosh, that, Robin, I've read this chapter so many times and never has it come more alive than it did with you explaining that to me. So, thank you. I love that you pointed out though the verses where Paul was an ambassador. So we are in Acts chapter 27. And Carol, we please read for us verses 21-25.

Carol 1:01:33

"But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss. And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship. For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve, Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee. Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me."

Thank you. And that phrase "Be of good cheer", says it twice. How much do I love it in verse 36 though, after they finally got to eat then were they all of good cheer? Of course they were.

Oh yes. I marked that, that they've been hangry for a long time. So stressed and hangry and together you're a mess.

Tammy 1:02:31

You're a mess. Exactly. So thank you, Robin. Excellent. Excellent storytelling skills. Okay, so they are, they all, in fact, if you look at verse, like Robin said, they were all safe. The end of verse 44 says, "And so it came to pass, that they escaped all safe to land." So in the next segment, we're going to find out what they did on that land and how Paul was an ambassador.

Segment 5 1:02:51

....

Tammy 1:03:02

All right, we are in Acts chapter 28. They're all on land safe, but everything else is gone. And Carol, what happens?

Carol 1:03:08

Well, what happens first is they come to a barbarous people, which means that they were native people of the land. And these people welcome them in very kindly and graciously and are going to help them. But as Paul's gathering a bundle of sticks, and he's going to lay them on the fire, there came a viper - I'm in verse 3 - a viper out of the heat and fastened on his hand. Now let's imagine this: a snake has now jumped out of the fire, it's fastened onto his hand. We are screaming here now - I don't know if he was screaming - I am screaming and in a panic because I've run over plenty of snakes up at Corner Canyon while we're riding in the mountains. And just riding over them with my bike freaks me out, but they haven't fastened to my hand, would be not good. And not only, and it's a viper. So it's a venomous beast it says in verse 4, so, and he's going to die. So it's interesting because the people think, well, no doubt he's a murderer because now vengeance suffereth not him to live. So he's gonna die because he must be a murderer because the snake's on him, and he's gonna die. It's very venomous.

But then in verse 5 it says, "And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm", which is incredible. You don't feel any harm. And then look at 6, this is really hilarious. And then they changed their minds and said that he was of God. So wow, is that for an ambassador and a fun story. So first, he is a murderer, and suddenly he's a God because he's thrown off the snake. And no harm comes to him. So just another testifying moment for Paul of his sent in there.

Tammy 1:04:35

It is such a good story. Excellent job, thank you. Keep going, how else is he an ambassador in this chapter?

Carol 1:04:40

So he's eventually going to get - let's jump over - he's going to eventually get to Rome. And when he gets there, he wants to call all of the chief Jews that are living in Rome to come see him because he's still in prison. He's still on house arrest and he kind of wants to be done with that. So he calls them all in and he says, Hey, fellas, you know.,(and so I'm going to just take some literary license here and and tell it my way.)

Tammy 1:05:04

Go ahead.

Carol 1:05:04

So it'll, anyway. So in my mind because Paul's this fiery crazy guy, right, that we've been talking about all this time, and so I envisioned him calling them all in, 'come, come, come, come, come.' And they all come in and he says, Okay, now I'm kind of a big deal. Have you heard about me? Like, I've caused this ruckus, people were trying to pull me, tear me into pieces. I've got the Sadducees and the Pharisees trying to kill each other. I mean, I'm kind of a big deal have you heard about me? And I'm in prison because I believe in the God of Israel and because I believe in the resurrection. And there's no reason to be imprisoned, and for me to be - they want to put me to death and there's no reason for that. And it's so funny what the chief Jews say to him. They say to him, Uh, basically they say, We don't have any idea what you're talking about. We don't know who you are, we haven't heard anything. Nobody sent us anything, we don't have any idea what you're talking about. And can you imagine? Paul's gotta be a little bit deflated. He's like, really? It was such a good story, too and they don't know any of it. So they haven't been involved in the drama.

But the fun part of this is, is that they say, But wait a minute, wait a minute. 'Paul, we've heard about this subject.' And this is in verse 22. We actually desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for us concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against." So what they're kind of saying is we've heard this commotion about this Christian movement, and people are going nuts about it. I mean, they're fighting and arguing, and people are talking against it. And so if you want to tell us about that, feel free. We kind of are interested, we want to know, we're intrigued. So he jumps in and just starts testifying, which is so awesome. And look in verse 23. At the end he says he's prophesying "from morning till evening." Off he goes, and he's going to just bear testimony. And then look at verse 24, which I love, is one of my favorite verses. And I'll tell you in a minute why. But it says, "And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not." And "they agreed not among themselves" in 25, so they departed.

Isn't that interesting what happens when you start preaching the gospel? It divides people, it's a division that naturally happens. My dad's always said that the church is a natural separator of people. But it tends to divide people and even the Savior tells us that that's what's going to happen is that it will divide people. Because He tells us in Luke 12:51-53, - and I love this - He's talking to His disciples and He says - look at Luke 12:51-53. "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.: For from henceforth there shall be five in one household divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law and the daughter in law against her mother in law." I find that very powerful, that the Savior's already going to say not everybody is going to want light and truth. They're going to have agency, they're going to get to choose that if that's what they want, but it will divide people.

And that's what it's been doing with Paul all along this way and all on his journey. So some are believing, some aren't. And then they have these arguments. You'll jump down and see later after he quotes Isaiah that they had great reasonings among them, the Jews, so they couldn't come up with a, they couldn't agree on anything. And so now they're going to have these arguments with each other. But what he quotes to them next is so awesome. It's the very same thing that the Savior quotes in Isaiah. And so let's go to verse 26. And this is from Isaiah that they're quoting. And he says to them, "Saying, go unto this people, and say, Hearing, ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed: lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." So there it is, you don't want to know the truth. You don't want to see, you don't want to hear ,you don't want to understand. And so the gospel of Jesus Christ is a choice.

We've been given agency, it's a beautiful, sacred gift that the Lord treasures above all else. It's the only way to grow and develop and mature and become. And so He gives us His agency, but He's not going to force that upon us. So light and truth and knowledge is not forced upon us. It's bestowed upon us if we choose it, and I love that. And he's trying to help them understand that I could, you could be healed if you only wanted to have that truth and know that truth. And so they go away divided because they can't decide what they want to do. But from here on out, he will continue preaching in the kingdom, in verse 30. So he's going to be there two more years. In verse 30 it tells you he's been there two more years. And here's what he does: he's still under house arrest but he's going to have all come in, he'll receive "all that came unto him," at the end of 30. And in verse 31, "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him." And there he goes, continuing the mission to the bitter end.

Tammy 1:10:22

And I just really appreciate in verse 31 where it says, "with all confidence." Boy, that is a powerful word for me, having the confidence to do anything in this church. Petition the Lord for help, having the confidence to preach His gospel, having the confidence to take on a calling that maybe you're like, What am I thinking? Like, I just think that's awesome. Thank you, Carol, you did an exceptionally good job teaching us the snake story, which I knew you would. But then I like that, I like how you pointed out verse 24. When you said that's one of your favorite verses I was like, Hmm, that's interesting. What will she say? Then you beautifully taught that. So thank you so much. Okay, so that is correct. We have just ended the book of Acts. So, is that the end? We'll talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 6 1:11:07

.....

Tammy 1:11:29

Okay, so Acts ends, and it's kind of open-ended. I love reading what a scholar wrote: "There is purpose in it being open-ended right here. It's not the end of the story. What we do know later on is that Paul was imprisoned a second time in Rome and his very last letter is 2nd Timothy. Knowing that though, there's a reason it's open-ended, because this is an invitation for us to then step into the story and continue with Paul's mission." And so I think this is really powerful in light of our discussion about Paul. Okay

Robin 1:12:01

Well what I think is interesting about Paul is that he's on the Lord's errand. I mean, he's never discouraged. There's all kinds of people that are listening, that aren't listening, etc, etc. And he never gets frustrated, doesn't say, Oh, I'm going to stop. I'm going to stop doing this because people are showing up and nobody, you know, very few people are believing me. I'm going to stop doing this. No. I mean, he's under house arrest for two years and he just keeps inviting people. Nope. 'Here's the next sect. Come on, in, come on in. I don't know if you're gonna listen to this, I don't know if you're gonna believe it, but I'm gonna tell you. Ope, you're done. Next one. Okay. I'm not, I'm not dissuaded in any sense by that.'

And I think sometimes, you know about the 10th person or the 10th neighbor you go to and you go, Hey, would you be interested in hearing, you know, some things about the church I go to? No. 'Okay. Next one.' But by the time you get to your 10th one, do you do it for two years, you know? Do you keep doing it for two years to everybody? Or at some point do you go, Man, nobody really wants to hear. I was on a mission for a long time in Scotland it seemed like, and nobody wanted to hear. And I can tell you that at some point, I felt very discouraged, right? I mean, I kept doing it, but he's like

Carol 1:12:04

Why am I here?

Robin 1:13:13

Yeah, what's happening? And he, you never get the impression from the scriptures that he had any slowdown in his enthusiasm. That's why the Lord used him. That's why he was a zealot from the beginning, and a zealot at the end, and the Lord focused that, directed it, and used him completely to have that happen.

Tammy 1:13:37

And, it's exactly why the Lord will use us in all of our areas, like you taught us earlier, Robin.

Robin 1:13:41

Yep

Tammy 1:13:41

I mean, that was perfect.

Robin 1:13:42

Yep, exactly.

Tammy 1:13:43

And then you're going to bring in Robin's comment where he talks about Paul, that is just so powerful. Robin,

Carol 1:13:48

That's awesome.

Tammy 1:13:49

That was the best! So good, so good. And that is so cool about the Book of Acts, then, is that we all can play a role in building the kingdom. And I like this "preaching the kingdom of God, teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ." I mean, that is what we're asked to do "with all confidence, no man forbidding us." And that is the invitation here at the end. So Paul will be under house arrest right here, and it's during this house arrest that he's going to then write many of the letters which we're going to discuss from here on out. Some letters were written during the Book of Acts, and then many of them were written while he's here in house arrest. And he's following up with all of the people that he had taught throughout his mission.

The last letter he writes, is 2nd Timothy. And we want to go to 2nd Timothy chapter 4, and read verses 6-8. Because the exact details of Paul's death are not known, but tradition holds that he was beheaded in Rome, and that he died a martyr for his faith. So before he passes away, his last letter will be 2nd Timothy chapter 4, and we're just going to read what he writes in verses 6-8. Carol, can you read those for us.

Carol 1:14:55

"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

Tammy 1:15:18

Thank you. How do those words strike you, knowing there's a last that he'll write?

Carol 1:15:21

It's powerful and beautiful, and to go and to exit this earth feeling like I've fought a good fight, I've kept the faith. I have, I have undoubtedly. I know without any doubt that I will have that crown of righteousness, that I have gained my eternal salvation. How awesome is that?

Tammy 1:15:47

Absolutely. He just knows. And he's been doing this for a long time serving this mission.

Robin 1:15:58

And he understood and accepted that it was his work. I mean, from the very beginning he said, 'Yep, this is my work, I am this ambassador. I am to do this, I understand that, I accept it. And when he says, "I've kept the faith," it's like, I've kept my covenants. I made some promises to You, Heavenly Father and I expect that and I know that You will keep Your side of the covenant.' So when he gets through saying that I've kept my, "I have kept the faith", then I know that there's a crown of righteousness waiting for me because I've done my side of the deal. And there's no question that the Lord will fulfill His end of the covenant.

Tammy 1:16:39

Exactly. Absolutely. Listen, I don't want to brag but 2nd Timothy 4:7 was on my mission plaque. That's what they asked, they're like what Scripture do you want on your mission plaque? I'd like to say it was because I actually knew this verse. But I actually chose it because the boy I was in love with had it on his mission plaque. And I thought, this will be such a great story when we're married, we both have the same scripture. Didn't marry him, and now every time I look at my mission plaque, I'm reminded I chose the same Scripture as a boy that I was in love with. But, now that I know the story behind this whole verse, it actually gives me a little bit of hope. Maybe I didn't choose too far off.

Carol 1:17:15

There you go, whatever it takes. However the Lord gets you there that's what He's trying to do.

Tammy 1:17:18

Oh, I'm an idiot.

Robin 1:17:20

Isn't it great to be young? No, you're not. That's the beauty of life, it's a process. We start someplace and we end someplace. And you get to watch, I mean, you get to see that change all through that situation. And my father passed away when he was 97 and I saw him transform from who he was as I knew him as a boy, to what he was as a man when he passed away. And the transformation was beautiful.

Tammy 1:17:46

Oh, what a neat testimony about transformation, especially in light of Paul - the transformation. Thank you, Robin. Thank you. Well, let's read this last quote, again citing the article we began with from Sterling W Sill. And this is what he lastly has to say about the Apostle Paul. Carol will you read this for us.

Carol 1:18:06

"Think, if you will, of Paul the Apostle as he sits in his prison cell in Rome, awaiting his execution. He is an old man. For over 35 years he has turned neither to the right nor to the left, but said, "This thing I do." He had no sidelines, he made no excuses, and he indulged in no wasteful startings and stoppings. Instead, he always had that sure and steady quality of always being there, of always going forward, of always keeping in focus the one great aim and purpose of his life."

Tammy 1:18:40

Thank you. And so I think that quote would go perfectly here at the end of the Book of Acts as a reminder to every one of us to just always be there, always going forward, always keeping it the focus. And that's really hard to do in this life. But as we can see from Paul, 'I have finished my course, I have kept the faith." Tell me your thoughts, Carol.

Carol 1:19:05

I think that in the world it's, well, I'm always easily distracted. Let's just be real. I'm so easily distracted. And Robin will say to me, Did you get distracted? Yeah, what was I supposed to be doing? Yep, I'm distracted. It's just so easy to do. And there's so much here for us to be distracted with, makes it very easy. And so this quote is beautiful for me, because the piece that really hits me is he always was, he always kept the focus, the one great aim and purpose of his life. What is the one great aim and purpose of our life? What are we here to do and what are we here to become? And whose are we? And I go back to that scripture too, because it's one of my favorite, to know whom we serve and whose we are. To me, it's beautiful. He never lost that knowledge, that pure knowledge of knowing who he was and who he was serving.

Tammy 1:20:01

Thank you, Carol. Beautiful.

Robin 1:20:03

And you know, Tammy, the interesting thing about scriptures are that you can't tell me Paul didn't get distracted at times. I think what Carol just said is that he understood what the main goal was, and always used that as his final focus. But you know, you don't write down all the times you got distracted in the scriptures. You don't

Carol 1:20:23

What?!?

Robin 1:20:23

You don't say, 'Oh, you know, well, I had this week where I just really, you know, I had this going on in my life. And so.' You don't write that down. Did that happen to him? I absolutely guarantee it had to happen to him over time. But the main focus was, here's my goal. Here's what I know I'm supposed to be doing. Here's, I'm always going to get back to that. And I feel like, you know, I wouldn't want people to put up in their life and say, Oh, well, when I get distracted, I'm not following that goal, I'm not staying where I'm supposed to stay. That's not it at all. The point is, you know what the goal is. Yeah, you're gonna get distracted. Yeah, you've, life is life. There's all kinds of things going on, and family and challenges and all these other things that come with life are gonna hit you.

The question is, through all those things as you're dealing with those, because they're distracting, is your focus on the Savior? Is your focus on where you want to finally end up,what you want to believe, what you want to espouse, what you want to teach? If you're doing that, it's all part and parcel of the process for me. And I, you know, like I said, if you wrote every part of Paul's life down, I guarantee there'd be a few verses in there about distraction. We can't live without it. So

Tammy 1:21:43

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that, both of you. That's it. That's the end of our episode. It was so good. Thanks both of you for coming so well-prepared. I just, I love you two. Really quickly just gather your thoughts and what's your one takeaway from today's discussion? Okay, I'm gonna go first, actually, here's my takeaway. I wrote this in my scriptures, Robin, I loved it when you said, I need a 100 percenter. Cuz I just imagine God looking down at a certain time in His life when He needs one of our skills. Like right now I need a zealot, which is such a weird thing for scripture. But I think of what would He say to me like, here's what I need from Tammy, someone who has ADD so she can get a lot of things done, maybe. I liked that. And then Carol, I liked it when you said "the almost will kill us," because that was so true. So thank you, both of you for teaching me those principles.

Robin 1:22:33

I'm just, I'm just back to the beginning for me. If you listen and let the Lord guide you, and let Him be involved in your life, He will not only help you grow, but He'll use you to accomplish His purposes, regardless of what your particular talents happen to be. They don't have to be a specific set. It's whatever you have, whatever you've developed, He can use those. He can use everybody in His work, everybody in every situation.

Tammy 1:23:06

Great takeaway, yes. Carol?

Carol 1:23:08

Well, and I think one of the things for me is that to be an ambassador of Christ means that the mission is not necessarily what we think it's going to be, or it's going to be unexpected. You're going to have some unexpected trials. But what the Lord's trying to do is get us to change and become and know that we are His. And so I wanted to share this one little thing with you that I reached out to my my other son Zack, my other missionary. Because I knew that their two missions were very different, Austin and Zach. Zach is our second son and Austin's our first one. And I said, "Zach, would you share what was tough for you on your mission and what you learned?" And this is what he said. "While on my mission, I met another missionary from another church that we spoke with a few times. One of the talks he gave at one of his church sessions that my companion and I attended was this: 'Dios nos quiere combiar.' - God wants us to change or God wants to change us. Although we did not end up meeting with this brother from another church much longer, that message is something I agree with.

"When I was first on my mission I was pretty sure I had it figured out. The mission ended up pushing me up against some perspectives, judgments, and beliefs that we would categorize as pretty difficult mental health struggles that I did not know that I had. I worked with a lot of companions and other missionaries that were dealing with some severe mental health struggles as well. I had a companion that in his own struggles was blaming me for everything that was wrong in his life and that I was ruining his mission. I had an Elder I was living with have a full mental episode and yell, punch, and break the bookshelf in our Bronx apartment. I had an Elder that was having severe attachment issues, went through major anxiety and panic from a previous companion. I had an Elder that was dealing with deep depression and chose to go home to work through it, all while I was having pain panic attacks at night. I wasn't sleeping. I was anxiety-ridden and deeply depressed. I was getting blurry vision from pushing so hard through the mental fog. I was having crazy, deep, depersonalization. I was full of guilt and shame.

"But I was determined to fight through it and get square with God, no matter what it took. I was willing to die on my sword out there. Here are a few thoughts that I had. I couldn't imagine the thought of coming home, my Mission President could send me home in a body bag as far as I was concerned. I wasn't about to choose to come home. What would my family think? What would my grandparents think? All my uncles went on missions; I would be the first one to come home early if I did. I would be a failure. And if I was out there unworthily, especially if I was out there unworthily, I should probably think of every bad thing I had ever done, and find a way to fix it. What else is wrong with me that would make me feel this way or have these issues? I'll just keep pushing and be obedient as I possibly can and eventually God will fix me. God is purposefully breaking me. How can I better, how can I be better and be better at what He wants me to be and become? Can you see some unhelpful beliefs here?

"Even amidst all these issues, I had families and people tell me how much they felt the Spirit when I was in their home and how much I influenced them while I was there. I can say with 100% certainty that God let me know He loves me while I was out there, but He did not fix me. When I came home from my mission, there were a few of us that had recently returned that were meeting with the stake leadership to report on the mission. As I heard other people talk about, Yay! how their mission was difficult, but that they had loved that, et cetera. And then I got up, and in tears reported how difficult my mission was, and that I really didn't particularly love it, but that I had come to know that God was real, and that He knew me. I don't say that to mean that my mission was any harder than someone else's, but that the hard for them may have looked different than the hard for me. I do not believe God intentionally makes things hard for us who love and want to serve Him. However, I do believe that Dios nos quiere cambiar.

"I believe God wants me to get to know Him. That process involves a lot of change, particularly around perspectives, judgments, and beliefs. He cannot change those for me, and I wouldn't be able to own them as my own if He did. Learning how to make those changes has been hard work and has required a lot of curiosity and a willingness to maybe just admit that the way I am viewing something or thinking about it could be wrong. I believe that choosing God means choosing to come to know Him. Choosing to come to know Him means choosing change and change is hard, but it is essential. So essential that even God wouldn't rob me of the opportunity of experiencing change. He just provided the enabling opportunity for me to choose change. Dios nos quiere cambiar, especially those who love and serve Him."

And I feel like maybe that sums up Paul too, that he had to come to know his Savior. And he had to go through that change and I don't think it was easy. Like Robin said, I don't think he included all those things. And we don't have all of the backstory and the deep, deep things happening in his mind and in his heart. But he knew the Lord loved him. and he knew who he was. And I'm so grateful for a son who got to have that opportunity to know God, and to know he's loved, and to know whose he is. I appreciate that so much and I appreciate Paul and his great example of faith to the end.

Tammy 1:28:42

Thank you, Carol. I mean with that, we'll just say, Amen. That was beautiful and such a great discussion. So thank you to both of you.

Robin 1:28:50

Awesome

Carol 1:28:51

Love you Tammy.

Robin 1:28:51

Thanks Tammy.

Carol 1:28:52

Thank you.

Tammy 1:28:52

Thank you. Oh, gosh, that was a great episode. Okay, so here's what I want you guys to do. If you are not following us on Instagram or Facebook, just go do it. Because I want to know what your thoughts are, or things that you were thinking throughout this episode, or even questions that you have. You can ask them or post them on Facebook, and then at the end of the week on Instagram we will post a question from this specific episode. And I'd love to know your thoughts or answers to that question. Now you can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode. Go to LDS living.com/sunday On Monday, and there will be instructions on how to get there. And if you go there, we're going to have links to all the references we used today, as well as a complete transcript of this whole discussion, and a glue-in for this episode. So go check it out. And by the way, if anybody tries to find the article in Church News from 1967, you're not going to find it. Anything before 1970 is kind of null and void. So, you can find it in the book that I use which is by Andrew Skinner and Kelly Ogden: "Verse by Verse, the Book of Acts."

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were Carol and Robin McCulloch. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me; it is edited by Hailey Higham, and recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here.

We'll see you next week and please remember: You Are God's Favorite.

Carol 1:30:20

This is not going to be a good game for me Tammy. This will show you how blonde I really am. I don't know

Transcribed by https://otter.ai