24: "My Heart Rejoiceth in the Lord" (Ruth; 1 Samuel 1–3)

Segment 1:

Book of Ruth Facts:

Author: Unknown

“The book of Ruth is one of only two books in the Old Testament named after a woman and presents an example of a woman of faith, strength, and kindness. The book is characterized by hope and optimism, describing Ruth and Naomi’s journey from sadness to happiness and from emptiness to fulness” (see “Introduction to the Book of Ruth,” Old Testament Seminary Teacher Manual, ChurchofJesusChrist.org).

1 Samuel Facts:

Author: Unknown

“Originally, 1 and 2 Samuel were one book in the Hebrew Bible. The division into two separate books probably occurred when this book of Samuel was translated into Greek, which necessitated putting the book on two scrolls instead of one” (Richard Neitzel Holzapfel, Dana M. Pike, and David Rolph Seely, Jehovah and the World of the Old Testament [2009], 190).

Outline:

1 Samuel 1–7: Samuel’s actions as prophet

1 Samuel 8–15: Saul as the first king of Israel

1 Samuel 16–31: The rise of David

(see “Introduction to the Book of 1 Samuel,” Old Testament Seminary Teacher Manual, ChurchofJesusChrist.org).

Quote:

“To find the women in scripture, requires today’s women and men to be in the scriptures. We cannot merely depend on retold paraphrases of these stories or hope that they come up in Sunday lessons. Rather, we must be diligent in accessing them for ourselves directly from the canon of holy writ to find the context, scriptural detail, and clues to each woman’s influence” (Camille Fronk Olson)

Segment 2:

Scriptures:

Ruth 1:1–17, 20–21, 22

Isaiah 54:4

Hebrew:

Ruth = Root = Friendship

Naomi = Pleasant

Elimelech = My God is king

Mahlon = Sickness, disease

Chilion = Destruction, weak

Kindly = Hesed = A deep love and mercy

Mara = Bitter or sad

Quotes:

“Sister Marjorie Hinckley said: ‘Oh, how we need each other. Those of us who are old need you who are young. And, hopefully, you who are young need some of us who are old. It is a sociological fact that women need women. We need deep and satisfying and loyal friendships with each other’”(Sister Marjorie Hinckley, quoted by Bonnie D. Parkin, “Oh, How We Need Each Other!” March 2004 Ensign).

Segment 3:

Scriptures:

Ruth 2:3, 9–12, 20

CR: Leviticus 19:9–10

Ruth 3:2–5

Definitions:

Hap = Chance or good fortune

Hebrew:

Goel = Redeemer or rescuer

Segment 4:

Scriptures:

Ruth 3:6–12, 14

Proverbs 31 (Proverb of a virtuous woman)

Ruth 4:6­–8, 13­–22

Matthew 1 (Christ’s genealogy)

Hebrew:

Virtuous = Strength and powerful

Obed = Servant or serving one

Obed’s Genealogy:

Segment 5:

Scriptures:

1 Samuel 1:1–6, 8–11, 14–18, 23–28

1 Samuel 2:1–10, 18–21

CR Exodus 32–34 (wise-hearted women)

Definitions:

Adversary = Greek translation is depression

Hebrew:

Womb = The same root word as compassion

Samuel = Name of God

Eben = Rock

Segment 6:

Scriptures:

1 Samuel 3:1–9

CR Galatians 5:22–23

Doctrine and Covenants 6:14

Definition:

Precious = Rare

Quote:

“You have questions for which you seek answers. You have at least enough faith to hope that you will receive answers from the Lord through His servants. You will not have the opportunity to ask aloud for answers from the speakers, but you can ask your loving Father in prayer.

“I know from experience that answers will come to fit your needs and your spiritual preparation. If you need an answer that is important to your eternal welfare or that of others, the answer is more likely to come. Yet even then, you may receive—as did Joseph Smith—the answer to be patient. If your faith in Jesus Christ has led to a heart softened through the effects of His Atonement, you will be more able to feel the whisperings of the Spirit in answer to your prayers (President Henry B. Eyring, “The Faith to Ask and Then Act,” October 2021 general conference).

Tammy 0:00

In every one of our exhausting and depleted moments, you know, the ones where it doesn't seem like there's any possible way out, in comes the Father and our Savior with has said, this is that all-consuming deep-rooted love that the Father and Jesus Christ have for us that takes their abundant goodness, kindness and mercy and wraps it all up into one and is delivered to us in our moments of greatest need. Now if this sounds like a platitude or some nice approach to a difficult situation, today's study of Ruth and Samuel chapters 1-3 will teach us the truth of HESED and just how much we are loved, watched over, and remembered.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. K, if you're new to our study group, I just want to make sure real quick that you know how to use this podcast, so follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study, just like my friend Sherry Ray and her family from Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, everybody.

Now here's another awesome thing about our study group and, personally, my favorite thing, is that each week we are joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we've got a powerhouse. I'm so excited. We have Holly Howarth, who's been on before. Hi, Holl.

Holly 1:06

Hello

Tammy 1:07

- a really good friend. And then we get to introduce Camille Fronk Olson. Oh, hi, Camille.

Camille 1:28

Hi.

Tammy 1:30

And if some of you were like, Did she just say Camille Fronk Olson? Yes, I did. I just said that name. For reals. And for those of you who know her name, is because she is the author of many things. But the book for sure that I told everybody to buy at the beginning of the year is "Women of the Old Testament." And in December, I'm going to tell you all to go by her other book, "Women of the New Testament", which you should probably buy now because it's going to sell out just like her Old Testament book did. So hi, Camille.

Camille 1:54

Hello. Thank you so much for inviting me to join you.

Tammy 1:59

How could we not? I mean, it's Ruth, and it's Hannah. And I just though, of all the people to have teach us and talk to us about, it had to be you.

Camille 2:07

Well, thank you. I'm very honored.

Holly 2:10

First of all, Camille, it's so wonderful to meet you; I'm so nervous to be here with you. Years ago I was going through a hard time and the listeners are probably going, Holly, do you always go through hard times? It seems like every time you're on, Why yes, I do. And somebody brought over your book "Too Much to Carry Alone." And it was so beautiful and life-changing for me. Thank you for writing that book. And it was so perfect for me at that time, just about adversity, and yoking ourselves with the Savior. So it was beautiful. So,

Camille 2:46

Thank you.

Holly 2:47

I'm excited to meet you today and learn from you.

Tammy 2:50

Yeah,

Camille 2:51

As long as we can base everything we're talking about and doing on Scripture, let me tell you, that's where the power is. And that makes this so exciting.

Tammy 3:02

Yeah,

Camille 3:02

So, happy

Tammy 3:05

This is gonna be fun. This is the Intro and I'm already feeling the spirit, I love it. Well, if you want to know more about my guests and read their bios and see pictures, you can find them in our show notes which are found at LDS living.com/sundayonmonday. So go there because you know, if you're anything like me, I gotta see a picture with a voice, I just do. And then if you're anything like me, you'll probably spend the next hour or so stalking these people and looking them up on Facebook and finding out everything you can about the person. Or googling their name.

Camille 3:33

And then there are those of us that are not on Facebook, that are not doing social media at all.

Tammy 3:39

But I could Google your name, Camille and find out lots of information. I'm kind of a professional. So go read, go have some fun. Okay, so this episode, there's no other intro other than grab your scriptures, your scripture markers, and your journals, and let's dig in. Okay, we're gonna start this whole episode out with a quote and Holly, will you read this quote for us please.

Holly 4:01

You bet. "To find the women in the Scripture requires today's women and men to be in the scriptures. We cannot merely depend on retold paraphrases of these stories or hope that they come up in Sunday lessons. Rather, we must be diligent in accessing them for ourselves directly from the canon of holy writ to find the context, scripture detail, and clues to each woman's influence." Camille Fronk Olson

Tammy 4:31

Thank you. I guess I could have had Camille read that but you know, it's her quote. Now Holly, you, me, HB, Becky Farley, Susan, we have all talked about this - women in Scripture. And so just real quick, I want to know, how has this proven true in your experience, like finding women in Scripture?

Camille 4:48

I found this because I realized that when I actually went to Scripture, there was so much more to the story and so many more details and so much more power than ever comes by just paraphrasing, or by maybe what someone remembers. We're trying to save time because there's so many other things we want to cover in a very short lesson. And that's when these women became true individuals that came alive for me.

Tammy 5:20

Umm, yeah. Because it seems like we have a tendency to gloss over their stories,

Camille 5:25

or we or we have a tendency to make them like women today, specifically, or try to reinterpret their experience so it sounds like the woman right next door. And I just found that there's something about getting into the context of their world and their customs, their language, that suddenly makes the principle that is being taught - the power of God that comes through all of this - so much greater than when we simply skip over and try to do a personal application right off the bat.

Tammy 6:03

Hmm, yeah. Holly, how has learning about women in scripture been for you? Well,

Holly 6:09

I

Ummm, think I differ from that, because I am just very simple-minded. So I like to look at these women. And I do go right into how it relates to me and I do, I think about what it would be like as a woman being barren then, when that was their job, and how painful that would be and the heartache. I do try to put myself in their situations. But I get great comfort from them. I just, I just love that we do discuss it a lot more now. And a lot more is being written about these women in the scriptures, and stories, deep stories of them. And it's very heartwarming, and I love it for our daughters and the women, the young women that they're growing up with this, knowing their importance,

Tammy 7:04

Amen!

Holly 7:05

and that they have a place

Tammy 7:06

they have a place in doctrine. Oh good, Holly, that is so good. So let's just do this real quick. Before we jump into Ruth and Samuel, I'm just going to give you some facts about these two books, and then we're going to move on. So here we go. Here's what you need to know about Ruth: the author of the book is unknown. But Camille said something earlier that I thought was really fascinating about who MAY have written the book. Camille, tell us about that.

Camille 7:28

Well, yeah, oh, we just don't know who the author is. But because the female voice in this throughout the four chapters is so different from any of the other book of Scripture in the Old Testament, that many have suggested this could have been written by a woman. Clearly, whoever wrote this reflected the purity of female experience and female observations, that at least they understood and listened to women to be able to do this. And maybe it, maybe it was written by a woman.

Tammy 8:02

I agree. I do think it was, I can't wait to find out. Because you're right, when you read it, it just tugs at your heartstrings. The words they use are just beautiful; it's how a woman would tell the story. So, so good. Okay, here's some other stuff that I thought was cool. I mean, we know this, the book of Ruth is one of only two books in the entire Old Testament named after women. So I thought that was pretty great. So note that about the book of Ruth. Now, let's find out some things about the first book of Samuel. So here's what we know. It's unclear when and where the books of Samuel were written, First Samuel, and Second Samuel. I thought this was interesting that originally First and Second Samuel were one book in the Hebrew Bible.

But they were divided into two separate books. This occurred when it was translated into Greek because they needed to put it on two separate scrolls instead of one, there was so much information. It's uncertain who the author was, or when First Samuel was written. And then the book of First Samuel can be divided into three main sections. So just kind of write these down. And somewhere on the page of First Samuel put this, and we'll study this throughout the next week or two. But know this: chapters 1-7, it recounts the actions of Samuel, the righteous priest and Prophet and judge. Chapters 8-15 focus on Saul, the first king of Israel. And chapters 16-31 describe the rise of David.

So just kind of know that as we go into these books, and we'll talk more about it next week. So going back to how we began this episode, we are going to dive into the books of Ruth and First Samuel to find the context, scriptural details, and clues, to learn the stories of three prominent women in Scripture and we're going to begin with Ruth in the next segment.

Segment 2 9:41

....

Tammy 9:43

Okay, you two, I have a question: How important is friendship in your life?

Camille 9:48

Oh, it means everything and I thought it meant everything when I was a teenager, but I realize those friendships that you had as teenagers many times continue on but then you just add more and more and more. And it is friends so often that the Lord uses to help me in times of need.

Tammy 10:09

Yes

Holly 10:10

Absolutely. I, and I agree. It's those friends that you get in adulthood. I met my best friends, it's 30, around 30 that I'm so close with, and I'm still close with my other friends, and my best friend since fourth grade. But friends are everything to me. And actually, my Patriarchal Blessing mentions friends twice in it. So I think the Lord knows how important it is. And especially for me.

Camille 10:42

Yes. And when you don't live near your sisters, a friend is every bit as much of a sister than you could ever hope for. And I am right now that's truly like that.

Tammy 10:59

Absolutely. I was struck by a quote given in general conference way back in 2014. That when I heard it, I wrote it down. This is how cool it is. So it was Sister Bonnie L. Oscarson, and she was quoting Sister Hinckley in her talk who said, "It is a sociological fact that women need women, we need deep and satisfying and loyal friendships with each other." Ah, the beauty of friendship. And I thought what was so beautiful about how the book of Ruth - in Hebrew is called ROOTH - which is Ruth but the word root in Hebrew means "friendship". So how fabulous that the book of Ruth in Hebrew is called friendship. It's the book of friendship. And I think we're going to see that throughout the course of this story.

So let's dive in. And let's just tell this story, and we're going to have Camille help us tell it, and we'll have a great discussion. So in Ruth 1:1, it begins "Now it came to pass in the days," I really wanted to just say, Once upon a time, there's a story about a man... like I just feel like it's this beautiful narrative, this beautiful story. So just sit back, get comfortable. And let's hear this story. And here's what we need to know. It's important because we're coming off the heels of the book of Judges that we talked a little bit about last time, when we, last week when we talked about judges. And Camille, tell us about that.

Camille 12:10

This is that time period between when Moses and then Joshua leads them into the Promised Land. And then there's a period of time of the called The Judges before you get the United monarchy, Saul being the first king. And it might be about a 200-year period. And it was a time when tremendous unrest among the tribes of Israel battling the different peoples that live there. You see, they went whoring after other gods in disunity, and yet in this particular story, we're focused in Bethlehem, and you kind of just kind of like think that this is a little area that seems to be separate from all of that. But that's part of it. They all, every, all these different peoples of the Israelites just seem to be pretty much more isolated, and fragmented.

I just think it's such an interesting thing, because it's this story and the story that we'll talk about in the first chapters of First Samuel, it's setting the foundation to make the most major change that happens. Because within one generation, you're going to see Israel become a united, strong country, and eventually become the greatest empire in the ancient Near East. And we'll see these two stories provide foundation.

Tammy 13:38

Oh, Camille, I'm so grateful that you just gave us that foundation. That is perfect. Thank you. So let's get introduced to the people that are going to help change or create this foundation. It's so cool. We have a man and a woman who are married, and their sons. And that is found in verse 2. Camilla, can you read verse two for us. Yes, I want you to read those crazy names for us.

Camille 13:59

And the name of the man was Elimelech, which means in Hebrew, "my God is King". And the name of his wife is Naomi, whose name means "pleasant" in Hebrew. And the name of two sons, Mahlon, which means kind of "sickness" or "disease". You wonder if this was almost assigned after the fact because yeah, Mahlon and his brother Chilion, which means "destruction" are weak. They're gonna die young. And they are Ephrathites. Ephrath is another name for Bethlehem. So they're coming out of best land, which is in the tribe of Judah. And they came into the country of Moab and continued there. And that is because of this famine that we read in verse 1. They need to leave. We've seen other peoples in the past, like Abraham and Sarah go down to Egypt during the time of famine. Jacob's family goes down to Egypt because of famine. They've gone over to Moab, which is just on the other side of the Dead Sea, as we would see it today.

Tammy 15:11

And it's a pretty bold move because the people of Moab are not covenant keepers, really. They're not of the Covenant Israelites, but it doesn't matter. They need food, they're going to move. And so they take their family over and then in verse 3, we're immediately struck with such sadness. And verse 3, it says, "Elimelech, Naomi's husband died." So there's Naomi left to her own, and she has these two sons with her. Now these two sons, they choose wives to get married, in verse 4. Holly, can you read verse 4.

Holly 15:41

Ruth 1:4 "And they took them wives of the women of Moab; the name of one was Orpah, and the name of the other Ruth: and they dwelled there about ten years."

Tammy 15:53

Thank you. Kind of a funny side note, but Oprah Winfrey's real name on her birth certificate is Orpah. But this in an interview she explained that her family, who was unfamiliar with the name, pronounced it and spelled it Oprah all the way from her infancy, so it just stuck. I love that we have that. Just a little side note about Oprah. Okay, so the two sons get married. And then verse 5, again, the sadness Mahlon and Chilion died. So now here's Naomi without a husband, without her two sons, and then these two daughters in law. And so what story starts out with such tragedy, the very beginning, right?

Camille 16:26

And then and then to know that these are Orpah nor Ruth had any children. So 10 years they had been there, but still no children. That's also interesting,

Tammy 16:38

Very. In Ruth, 1:6-15, Naomi has a conversation with her daughters in law. And she's basically saying, Look, you guys go back to your home, you don't need to stay with me anymore. I don't have any more sons for you to marry. And we have learned this, throughout this year that according to the letter write law, if a woman had other sons and a wife passed away, those sons could marry that deceased brother's wife and take care of her. And so Naomi is like, I don't have any more kids. And even if I met a man today, and got pregnant by him, would you wait till that child was raised and marry him? Like she just presents this scenario to them. But I really appreciate verse 8 so much, we just have to read this verse. And I'll read that.

1:8 "And Naomi said unto her two daughters in law, Go, return each to her mother's house: the Lord deal kindly with you, as you have dealt with the dead, and with me."

Highlight that word "kindly". In Hebrew that is HESED, and there's so much beauty in this word, because she's saying that the Lord has dealt kindly with you. He has shown you this beautiful HESED. He remembered you, He loved you, kindness, mercy. And then she applies it and you have "dealt with the dead and with me". So kind of keep that tucked, like we just love this word HESED throughout this whole story. And so Orpah leaves, she decides to go back and live with her family. But Ruth makes a different decision. And so Camille, will you tell us about this and read these verses starting verse 16?

Camille 17:59

Yes. And I think just to say that Orpah, she was still ready to go with Naomi at first, it took some convincing. And a lot of times people make her just a really, the negative, real bad, but we don't know the rest of her story. And maybe that's where she was needed most there. But I think she reflects just how remarkable what Ruth did is even more exceptional. So, here's Ruth's famous statement to her mother-in-law:

1:16 ".....Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, with I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.

And now verse 17. "Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the Lord do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me."

It's said it is a remarkable thing. I mean, it's true. The Moabites were descendants related to Abraham. Remember, they come from Abraham's nephew Lot. But they had gotten into worshipping these other gods and their god Chemosh was not Jehovah. And so this will be a major change for Ruth to go into a land where she would be seen as a stranger and a foreigner. And only with her mother-in-law.

Tammy 19:29

Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the phrase when she says that "thy God shall be my God." What is that telling us about Ruth at that moment?

Camille 19:39

Well, yeah, that is there in verse 16. I think, but you don't know how much she learned from Naomi and Elimelech, and her husband, about the God of Jehovah, about religion, how strong they were, we don't know. But she has already stated commitment. She, that idea of HESED, it has the idea of covenant with it. There is a real tie, a permanence, a loyalty that goes with that. And you can hear it in this commitment to be, He's going to be my God, I'm not turning back on that. I will be as one of you and she sticks with that. She is much the rock solid one in that as anyone in this story.

Tammy 20:33

Absolutely. I'm so thankful that you reminded us that it is rooted in covenants. HESED is, it is covenants and that when we keep those, the Lord can do all these things for us. So yeah, I think you're right. I think this is when Ruth is like, I'm entering into this covenant, I'm going to have your God become my God. And I'll leave all other false gods. And so then Naomi and Ruth go, they go back to Bethlehem. And when Naomi gets there, people say, Oh, is this the Naomi that left so long ago? And it's interesting in verse 20, she's like, That's not my name anymore. She changes her name to Mara.

And I just liked this so much, because you taught us that what Naomi's name means: to be "pleasant or delightful or lovely". And then now it's Mara, and that is in verse 20. "....Call me Mara, for the Almighty hath dealt very bitterly with me." And the name Mara in Hebrew means "bitter or sad". I mean, can either one of you relate to this? Like, I'm done? My name is now, I mean, any thoughts on that, Holly?

Holly 21:25

Oh, well, when I read that, I laughed, and I thought, well, I guess I should be called Mara now. Never thought of changing my name, but uh, I might. I might.

Tammy 21:38

I'm gonna call you Mara from now on.

Yeah, you kind of get it. You feel her sadness. Right?

Camille 21:45

In verse 21, don't you feel that? I mean it's pretty dramatic. You can almost see her put her hand on her forehead. 'I went out full and the Lord has brought me home empty.' And I think about that. And Ruth's standing here right next to her. Obviously, she does not consider Ruth at this point as any great benefit. In anything this could, it could even make things a little more difficult for her coming back with this foreigner, especially the way some of the Israelites felt about them.

Tammy 22:19

Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Because I thought the same thing like, and now here Naomi is, And now I got to take care of somebody else, I mean, isn't it bad enough....? Because one of the things we need to understand is there was a certain degree of shame that came with being a single unmarried woman, and a widow. She could not work to provide for herself, she would live a life of poverty, she had no one to protect her. And she would be at a severe social and economic disadvantage. Isaiah refers to this in Isaiah 54, verse four when he says, "the reproach of thy widowhood." And now here's Naomi looking at a double reproach with Ruth on her back. So you know, I wonder if Naomi's like, I don't know how we're going to do this, because now I have nothing. And so yeah, I like how you pointed that out.

Camille 23:00

And how often do they think that this is a judgment for God? Obviously, right? That she must have been, Well, who? This is terrible. These bad things don't happen. And she's loaded with everything. Obviously she has been a bad person and God is no longer with her.'

Tammy 23:18

Oh, can you imagine the rumor mill, 'What did Naomi do back in Moab? Geez', right? You know, how minds work. So, oh, that is such a good discussion. Okay. So then we have Ruth 1:22. And I thought this was interesting because they go at the beginning of the barley harvest, this would be during the time of Passover. And it's kind of beautiful when you consider that the Passover was a reminder of the Lord protecting those who were covenant keepers. And He'll protect them physically and spiritually. And so in the next segment, we're gonna find out if the Lord really did protect these two women.

Segment 3 23:52

....

Tammy 23:53

We're gonna go right back into Ruth 2, and we ended with is the Lord going to help protect these two women? How are they going to provide for themselves? Luckily, we have a wonderful law written in and you can cross reference to the outside of Ruth 2, put Leviticus chapter 19"9-10.rough 10. That's Leviticus chapter 19:9-10.

Camille 24:16

And then it's down in your footnotes, under 2a as well, so you can find it there as well.

Tammy 24:23

Perfect. Camille, tell us about this law. How is the Lord providing for widows?

Camille 24:28

Isn't it a great one? I just think it is the best welfare system that God comes up with on this. So when you're harvesting your grain, you don't go to the corners, you've probably got these sides, you know, that go in a circle and the corners would not be harvested. But they would leave those and so widows or people who do not have sustenance and land can go in and glean because it's all left for them. So It protects self-respect. It encourages industry and the value of work, but it also allows the landowners more compassion to think let's leave that for them. It isn't just a handout, they come and gather it. I just love it. It's one of my favorites.

Tammy 25:17

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with you. And Naomi tells Ruth, Listen, there's actually, we have a near kinsman who owns a field. So that's what we're going to glean from. And she sends Ruth and Ruth goes to this field of a man by the name of Boaz. We have to just read through chapter two verse three, because I really like the word in verse three where it says,

2:3 "And she went, and came, and gleaned in the field after the reapers: and her hap was to light on a part of the field belonging unto Boaz,"

I love the word hap. Look at the footnote for it -with hap, the footnote for 3a for those of you who want to know. It does mean chance or good fortune. So that's what we're talking about right there. Like it was her good fortune by chance she ends up there.

Camille 25:56

My guess it that it suggests this was not planned. Yeah, I would, I would say she's probably been gleaning in a lot of different fields. And this, she just happened or hap upon Boaz, because it's not until she gets home after that day that she happens to tell, by hap, tells Naomi. She goes, Where did you clean today? Boaz? Are you kidding me? Yeah.

Tammy 26:23

Now, Camille, I want to know what you think is going on in Naomi's mind at this point.

Camille 26:28

Yeah. When it's when Ruth comes home that day, and she has so much grain that you're going, how could you glean that much in one day? And then when she hears Boaz, I think she's saying wait. Near kinsmen in Hebrew is GOEL. And that Hebrew word GOEL means Redeemer, someone who is a close kinsmen, can redeem at a more distant family member in helping them out when they need rescuing. A GOEL is a rescuer. And so I think already Naomi's thinking, Wait a minute, if he's been this nice to us, maybe he can do more in really redeeming us and helping us in our dire straits right now.

Tammy 27:16

Um-hm. In fact, let's look at this verse. Go to Ruth chapter two, verse 20, because this is so great, what Naomi says to Ruth.

2:20 "And Naomi said unto her daughter in law, Blessed be he of the Lord, who hath not left off his kindness", there's that word kindness, again, underline it. It's HESED in Hebrew. So fun. I love this. So I'm gonna read again, Blessed be he of the Lord, who hath not left off his" HESED "to the living and to the dead. And Naomi said unto her, The man is near of kin unto us, one of our next kinsmen." There's that GOEL, the Redeemer; we see this connection between HESED, covenants, and a redeemer who's going to save them. Oh, there's so much beauty in this story.

Holly 27:58

Well, I like that Naomi, right at the beginning, she recognizes that it was the Lord who provided that, that it wasn't just an accident. And I love that so much because, you know, when life is hard, and life was so hard for her, to get through it, what you have to start doing is recognizing the Lord's hand and everything. And once you start doing that, then things just start to open up and your mind starts to switch. And you become positive rather than, you know, Woe is me. And, you know, God hates me, and all that. You're like, No, this, this happened for a reason that you were gleaning in his field. And the Lord provided that way. And I love that.

Tammy 28:45

That's a rich connection, Holly.

Holly 28:48

Well I see that all the time in my life, right? Even when I'm upset and going through a really hard time and I am mad. And I just had an experience with that same type of thing. I, maybe six months ago, this lady wrote an article. And I read it and it spoke to me like, she's in my mind, every single thing she said, was exactly how I felt. But I couldn't write it like that. And I was just blown away. And I thought, I want to meet this woman. I've got to talk to her. I've got to connect with her. Because she understands me.

Last week, at a soccer game, my son's soccer game, this old man in his 80s comes up. It's kind of cold, he's all by himself. He sits in front of me. And I say, Oh, who are you here to see? And he tells me and I don't recognize the name and I say, Well, what grade is in? He's a senior and I said, Oh no, nobody told you that JV and varsity switched; JVs first, your grandson won't be here for two hours. And he's like, Oh, well, I got all the way here. I guess I'm just gonna I have to watch two soccer games today. And he tells me his last name. And I said, Oh, wait, does your daughter-in-law happen to be Holly? Her name happens to be Holly.

He said, Yes. I said, Oh, I wanted to meet her. I had no idea she had a child that went to Olympus that played soccer, and all this. And I said, I want to meet her. I need to meet this woman. He's like, Oh, she's incredible. Everyone needs a Holly in their life. So two hours later, she comes, she sits down, I sit next to her. I go, I have wanted to meet you. I wrote, I start sobbing. We have this connection. It was so incredible. On Mother's Day, she sends me a text that says, "I've been thinking about you. Happy Mother's Day. I'm glad we found each other."

And I'm like, another thing that God has done for me. Like I cannot believe that happened to me, HESED. I mean, I did not expect to meet her there in the stadium seating, and that her father-in-law sat right in front of me. It's huge. No one goes to JV games, there's a lot of places to sit. But he sat right in front of me. It was incredible. So now I can see, I relate that to Naomi, the same type of thing. And for me at this point in my life where I have been so negative, it is softened my heart so much, and realizing seeing God's hands in all things and that He does care. He does care. He did want me to meet her. It was important for me to connect with her. And so I'm grateful for that.

Tammy 31:45

Well, that you can take that moment and recognize God's hand in it. And Naomi's story that that moment I think is when Naomi turned from being bitter to being joyful again. You can see this shift in her attitude and in her excitement in what she's about to tell Ruth to do. I feel like when we include the Lord in our stories, and we see Him in all these experiences, that's what changes our heart. Because we can be bitter for a really long time. And God will let us.

I think once we see His hand in our story, then then it makes it okay. I think that's when HESED comes in, when we remember our covenants, the Lord will embrace us and He'll love us and He'll be like, Look what I can do for you as your head kinsmen, as your Divine Kinsman, which we have talked about all year - our listeners know - as your Divine Kinsman, here's what I can do for you. Now I can provide for you in a way that you couldn't possibly do for yourself. And He'll do that for Ruth and Naomi. So thank you, Holly. Thank you for sharing that.

Okay, then how exciting is the story because now Naomi's wheels are turning, right? You can just see it, you can actually hear the wheels turning. And there's probably fire coming out of her brain because her idea is so exciting. And then we go into Ruth chapter 3. And Camille, will you tell us what she tells Ruth to do, in verses 1-5.

Camille 32:57

It just sounds so strange in our ears. But she says verse 3. Oh, just letting her know 3:2, that Boaz is going to be at the threshing floor. That's where you'd put all the grain after it's gathered, and they often slept there, the men did to protect it. And Boaz as the owner would definitely be there. And verse three, she tells Ruth,

3:3 "Wash their thyself therefore, and anoint thee, and put thy raiment upon thee, and get thee down to the floor:" to the threshing floor. It's kind of like making yourself as presentable as possible. You want. I don't think she had multiple changes of attire, but there'd be something over maybe what her work dress would be. Then she said,

"but make not thyself known unto the man," meaning Boaz "until he [shall]have done eating and drinking.

4 "And it shall be, when he lieth down," [verse four] "that thou shalt mark the place where he shall lie, and thou shalt go in, and uncover his feet, and lay thee down; and he will tell thee what thou shalt do."

I mean, strange instructions, and I don't think necessarily Ruth really understood what this meant. But she says in verse 5, "....All that thou sayest unto me I will do."

It is, you know, you've got all men here, they've been drinking. And she is supposed to watch where he lays down as the only woman that's going to be there and she's going to be pretty hidden until then. And so you're going, What does Naomi have in mind? But it's, it's a pretty electric environment.

Tammy 34:49

Oh, that's a great word. It is electric. That is so good. Alright, and we just have to pause here and talk about Boaz. So Camille, will you share with us more about Boaz's character.

Camille 34:59

So Let's go back to Ruth chapter 2 to find out more about Boaz. I think it's a fascinating thing because he knows Ruth by reputation, but not by sight. And when he sees her gleaning in his fields and asks about her, he does a couple of things immediately. One is he tells his reapers, the men, in verse 9,

2:9 "....have I not charged the young men that they shall not touch thee?" And it, in the Hebrew that is more of an idea of molesting or I kind of did wonder if the idea that she's a foreigner, she might be an easier attack for some of the Israelite men, just out there vulnerable in the field. He's putting protection on her right to begin with, that's one of the characteristics of a Goel. And then he tells him that she can drink from the reapers' water supply and he tells the reapers, Give her a lot of extra grain. That's how she comes home with so much. But I love Ruth's response in verse 10 of chapter 2. She bows down to the ground and says to him, "Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shalt take knowledge of me, seeing I'm a stranger?" I'm not used to being treated this way, in Israel.

And Boaz, every other story I can think of, I mean, almost I shouldn't say everyone. But so often in situations like this, it talks about how beautiful the woman is, how, you know, that she's the most beautiful of all. There's no description of Ruth's appearance. It's her character that Boaz highlights. And again, this speaks of a feminine voice to me also, but Boaz answers to her. This is verse 11. It hath fully been shown me all that thou hast done unto thy mother-in-law since the death of thine husband, I know about you, you have been so good to your mother-in-law, and how that has left thy father and thy mother in the land of thy nativity, and are come unto a people, which thou knewest not heretofore.

12. "The Lord recompense thy work, (verse 12) and a full reward be given thee of the LORD God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust." And so already, it seems like Boaz is showing his incredible character, and how much he appreciates the fact that she has HESED for others, and that's going to play an important role in this story.

Tammy 37:42

Oh, absolutely. Okay, we're gonna just leave it right there. Talk about a cliffhanger. So in the next segment, we're going to find out what happens and we're going to see if Ruth does what Naomi told her to do.

Segment 4 37:52

.....

Tammy 37:56

Okay, so you both are married. I want to know real quick. How were you proposed to? Do you have a fun story? Was it different than you imagined? Anything like that?

Holly 38:05

No fun story here.

Camille 38:07

No, no, very natural. Now big ta-dah. No public display, very low key cuz we already

Holly 38:15

Same here.

Camille 38:15

We already kinda knew, you know. I was older, it was not dramatic.

Tammy 38:20

How old were you Camille?

Camille 38:21

47-48. Okay. Yeah, I'd be, I'd beat all of the stories, you know?

Yeah, you do. And well done. 47-48, Low key. Very good. And Holly, yours was low key?

Holly 38:32

Oh, yeah. So Low key, we knew, he already had the ring. And he was just like, so do you want to? I think we went to Magleby's restaurant in Provo. So will you marry me? Yeah. Okay, great.

Tammy 38:48

So great. Okay, that's awesome. Mine was also very low key. Yeah, we were in the car before we went into the restaurant and had a conversation. So, but it was beautiful. And you know, all these kids who have these videos about how it goes. And we were not like that. But I will tell you this, that in the throes of being single, when my dad just kind of lost hope, he said to me, Have you ever thought about doing it "Ruth-style"? Like maybe you should take Ruth's approach and then get married. And I'm like, Dad, you're a nut. Alright, let's just, I'm not going to be a Ruth. So, having said that, a lot of people were like, maybe you should just propose. And so this is beautiful in this story, because I am, I'm never going to forget the word, I'm even writing it in my scriptures. "It's electric". Right? It is electric. And let's go into Ruth chapter 3 and find out how this quote unquote 'proposal' went, and what happened. So it starts in verse 6. We have

3:6 "and she went down onto the floor and did according to all that her mother-in-law paid her so she does it. And when Boaz had eaten and drunk, and his heart was Mary, he went into lay down at the end of the heap of corn, and she came softly and uncovered his feet and laid her down. Alright, now Camille, I'm gonna turn it over you will you give us These verses, what happens next?

Camille 40:02

It came to pass at midnight, that the man was afraid and turned himself and behold, a woman lay at his feet. This was not what he expected. And probably, you know, taking the covers off of the lower part of his body, it kind of being chilled, and he wakes up. But he turns around, and there's this woman, and he asks, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth, thine handmade. Then she makes this, shall we say, proposal? Spread, therefore they skirt over thine handmade for thou art a near kinsman. In other words, this is this could be seen as even more than protection. This is, you know, take me under your wing, you are a GOEL. Will you take care of me? Maybe even will you marry me? And he says, Blessed be thou of the Lord, my daughter.

There's our first hint that Boaz is probably quite a bit older than Ruth. For thou has shown more kindness, more has hesed in the latter and then at the beginning. You've been more respectful and thoughtful of older people, then those maybe, you're, there might be other young men that would be interested in her. But you have shown more respect to me than to them. Inasmuch as thou followest not young men, whether poor or rich. And now my daughter fear not, I will go to thee, I will do to thee all that that thou requires. So whatever he understands, he's going, You know, I'm willing, I am willing, because of what kind of person you are. For all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.

Tammy 41:52

I like THAT word.

Camille 41:54

Yeah. And we got to come back to that word, because this is so important in Hebrew, isn't it?

Tammy 41:58

YES!

Camille 41:59

But, but before I can do that, there's someone that is closer, more closely related to Naomi's family, to Naomi's husband's family than me. And we need to talk to him first. So there's gonna be a little bit more but maybe we need to talk or do you want to talk a little bit about some of that part first.

Tammy 42:19

Let's talk about that word virtuous, because that's my, I, this is the whole purpose and reason behind writing about this book, the "Far Above Rubies, Thou Art a Virtuous Woman" because, Hello. Ruth is the only woman in all of scripture to be called virtuous. And she wasn't even married at the time. And so the word virtuous in Hebrew means 'strength' or 'power', 'being filled with strength and power.' She is filled with this strength and power through covenants, through this HESED which we have been talking about. Camille, share with me some of your thoughts on this word.

Camille 42:50

Well, the word virtuous comes up in three of the proverbs, like you said: Proverbs 31. It is so frequently in the Old Testament, I just want to do a few because I looked this up.

Tammy 43:02

Oh, good.

Camille 43:03

Fifty-six times when it shows up in the Old Testament, it's translated 'army'; 37 times it talks about men of valor; 29 times host; 14 times forces; 13 times valiant; 12 times strength. Anyway, the numbers go down, but still a number, riches, wealth, power, substance, might, strong. In fact, the very same word comes up in Ruth 2:1 when it talks about Boaz being a mighty man of wealth. It's CHAYIL, the same word translated - virtuous. In fact, four times it's translated virtuous, or virtuously in three Proverbs, and then this story of Ruth, all talking about women. When it talks about men, it's mind, it's power, it's strength, it's army, it's forces, it's host.

And when it's women, it is virtuous. And so often, I think we only think about virtuous - and especially with women - as sexual purity. This is something so much bigger than that; this is whole character, and it is power. It is strength. There's a similar word in Greek, that when remember? The woman with the issue of blood that touches the hem of the Savior's garment, and it says, "virtue went out of him", or in another word for 'power', it is power. And so we talk about, everyone knows that you are virtuous, it is power in character, as well as strength in physical strength in any other way. This is a phenomenal word. And unfortunately, we make it a different word when it's with women than it is men. But it is spiritual strength. It's strength from God.

Tammy 45:01

AH! She's on fire! Just for the record everyone listening, I did not prep this, I did not tell Camille to look up the word or anything. So this is, just so you know, we did not arrange this at all - this is truth. You just heard it from another person. Oh my gosh, Camille, thank you so much. That is incredible. I just, yes, you're right. And we do, we always make it about modesty and sexual purity when it comes to women. And it has nothing to do with that at all.

Camille 45:29

I think it's a found it's part of it. It's part of being virtuous. But it is not just that, and it's part of who-what we are, in a much bigger way as far as our spiritual purity and strength that comes only from the grace of God, that allows us to also be more the idea as far as modesty, as far as sexually pure, whatever that you know, whatever level that is, it this is, this makes it a much bigger thing. So big.

Tammy 46:04

Thank you. Okay, so here she is. She's this, he recognizes her. She's a virtuous woman. And then, like you said, Boza recognized that there's somebody else who's near in membership, a family, so I'm gonna go chat with him and see if he wants to take care of you, if he's willing to take care of you. So Boaz leaves, and he goes and meets with the near kinsman, and that is in Ruth chapter four. Oh, go ahead, go ahead.

Camille 46:25

But just before, he's not going to send her out at midnight to go home, and so he keeps her there on the threshing floor. And he says, but leave just before like, just like when they opened the gate to the city. I think, again, he's thinking of protection. And he wants her to get back into the city before other people see her. Because what are people going to assume? If they see Ruth leaving the threshing floor, now we can come up with that.

Tammy 46:54

Oh, it'll ruin her.

Camille 46:55

We can think of that. Just think about back then. And if she's a foreigner, they're gonna think the very worst. And so he is trying to protect her. And in every way, he is such an honorable man. He is a virtuous man in the same way that she is a virtuous woman. And I think that comes through here. So I think just even that scene is a lovely one to see Boaz's character. And that's

Tammy 47:21

And that's in verse 14, for those of you wanting to go and mark that up telling her to leave at morning time, so no one can see. Oh, so good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so he goes and he meets then with the person who's closer related. In chapter 4:6 the kinsman says, "I cannot redeem it for myself," - there's that word, I cannot be a kinsman for her - "lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it." Like I can't do it, I can't take it on. Go ahead, Boaz.

Camille 47:21

He was fine with getting the land. But once he found out that Ruth is going to be part of it, and even the idea that Boaz seems to suggest, Look, {I think behind the scenes, it could be}, I'm going to marry her. If you don't, but we have a child, that child can redeem that, get that land back because he's the true heir. But if you want to marry her and raise up Ruth's children, then go right ahead, but the inheritance will go to that child. And this so and so, this other Goel, this other near kinsman has other children, and it will take away from what his children have. I think he's just thinking no, that's not worth it to me. You go right ahead. And here's my shoe as evidence that I am turning over my right to this inheritance, and you have it. I think that's kind of like a shaking of the hand or saying, With this shoe, you walk on that property, it is yours.

Tammy 48:51

I'm so glad you brought that up. That's in verses 7 and 8 of Ruth chapter 4. He takes off his shoe and that's exactly what it is, is what you described, of taking it off, making a deal, not stepping on the land. So good. So as a result, then, Boaz and Ruth get married. And so go to Ruth 4:13. Holly, will you read verse 13, for us.

4:13 "So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the Lord gave her conception, and she bare a son."

Very good. And she has this baby boy, and they name him Obed. And Obed, that name in verse 17, we have this really beautiful genealogy. And there's just so many good verses here, 13-22. It talks about how Naomi will become his nurse. And just this connection now with Naomi and with Ruth and with Obed. And I just love that Obed in Hebrew means 'servant 'or 'serving one'. I just think this name is sort of this beautiful feeling of this relationship between Ruth and Naomi. They're going to name him serving or servant one as a reminder of how they got to where they are. And the goodness of this friendship in this relationship between these two women, it's so pretty. And then we have the genealogy. Tell us a little bit about that genealogy Camille and how it connects to Pharez and Tamar.

Camille 50:08

Oh, it is, it is. Remember back in Genesis 38. Tamar was Juda's daughter-in-law and through the levirate law, and that's a whole other story. Tamar has twin boys by Judah, and really saves him. It turns Judah into a very different person, and he's back on the straight and narrow after this. And, and that, and Judah, if you recall, was blessed by his father that all the kings would come through him, that the scepter should not depart from Judah until Shiloh comes, until the time of the King of Kings - Christ. And so you see this lineage of Judah, going with Tamar and their son, Pharez, and down and down, and these until you get here, even to Boaz as a descendant.

And Boaz and Ruth have Obed. And then they have a son named Jesse, and they have a son named David, and David will be king of United Israel. And from him down, that's the lineage of the kings. And you start out in Matthew chapter 1, and you read that lineage all the way down to Mary, who is the mother of Jesus, the King of kings. But it's so interesting that there are four other women named in that genealogy, and they are: Rahab, the Canaanite; and Ruth the Moabite; and Tamar; and Bathsheba. And, and you just see some interesting parallels as you go down through that. But this is the lineage of Jesus Christ, and to recognize that Ruth, the Moabitiss, is an ancestress of Jesus Christ and all the kings.

Tammy 51:57

Yes, it's so incredible. If you want to go into our show notes, we actually have a little genealogical chart, and you can just print that off, and cut it out and glue it into your scriptures if you want. It's just a great reminder of just the goodness of God in all of this in this whole story. And going back to how we started that it was at the time of the Passover, and will the Lord protect his people? You bet; it's because of hesed, because of this covenant relationship. And finding him in our story is - I'm so grateful you shared that Holly - that the Lord is in all of our stories. It's through hesed that He will help all of us, so. Incredible, beautiful, wonderful, I am so grateful. And so in the next, I mean, that's it. That's the end of our story about Ruth. Do you guys have anything you want to add or any thoughts that you have?

Camille 52:43

Oh, I, I just love verse 15 of Chapter 4. That the women, again, you see these friends, there they are in this circle These women are all together and they say to Ruth that he, Obed, this baby "shall be into thee a restorer of thy life, and a nourisher of thine old age: for thy daughter in law, which loveth thee, which is better to thee than seven sons, hath born him." What a change from Mara who came back to Bethlehem. I went out full and I came back empty. Suddenly, it is, I think you can see Ruth in this case is also a Goel. She has rescued, saved, redeemed this lineage and her mother-in-law recognizes it. And the women all around are saying she's better to you than seven sons. Good for Ruth, and good for Naomi and the women for recognizing that.

Tammy 53:46

Sorry, I'm writing so many notes. I like everything you just taught us about her as a Goel. That is so cool. Because this year we've been studying and finding different types of Jesus Christ, which are traditionally men, but we've tried to find the female types and shadows of the Savior.

Camille 54:02

And she's one

Tammy 54:03

She is, absolutely

Camille 54:04

She is definitely one.

Tammy 54:05

Ah, so good.

Camille 54:07

She sacrificed everything she had and came and put her life on the line to help someone else.

Tammy 54:18

Um hmm. And was blessed. So cool.

Holly 54:22

Well I love verse 16, if we're going to say something. It's so sweet to me. "And Naomi took the child and laid it in her bosom and became nurse unto it." It's so sweet to me. You know, I always, I don't know, I love the sweet things and just imagining her, this mother-in-law. And you know, this isn't her daughter's baby or her son's baby but she took it to her bosom and she became a nurse unto it. It's so beautiful to me, just shows how much they loved each other. And that grandson, it's her grandson, you know. She's going to treat it like that. That is so beautiful.

Tammy 55:03

That verse actually reminds me of you, just FYI. Whenever I read this, I have your name by it, because that's how you love. You would take this little baby and just hold it in your bosom and just love this little baby so much, you wouldn't care of the relation at all. You're just gonna love it. You've done that with all of our kids. So it's beautiful. So thank you. Thank you, ladies. And that's the end of our story about Naomi and Ruth, two of the three prominent women that we got to study today. And I just, that exceeded all my expectations. So thank you. Thank you. And now in the next segment, we get to meet the third woman we're going to learn about today. And, boy, we're going to find out for sure: Did the Lord pass over her too, or will we see hesed in her story? And Camille is going to do that for us next.

Segment 5 55:47

.....

Tammy 55:48

So, I do have a quick question. I want to lead into this. And I want you to think about this question as Camille talks to us. But what situation would prompt someone to make a deal with God? Like have you ever tried to make a deal with God, Holly? (laughter) Your face.

Holly 56:05

Yeah. When I read this, when I read this, I was like, oh, that's why Tam wants me on.

Tammy 56:15

Cuz we're always making deals with God.

Holly 56:17

People have told me over time, Holly, you can't talk to God like that. Because I'll tell 'em, 'Well, so I told God the other day that,' and 'you can't talk to him like that.' I said, 'Yeah I can; I do it all the time.'

Tammy 56:30

Yeah. Always. Always make a deal.

Holly 56:31

That's why he likes me. That's why I'm his favorite. Right?

Tammy 56:35

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Because you're keeping it real. Okay, I want you to think about that. Have you ever made a deal with God? Maybe you're thinking about it right now, maybe you're wondering if you can. I'm going to turn the time over to Camille, and she is going to teach us from 1 Samuel chapter one. So grab your stuff, get ready to mark. This is a wonderful story.

Camille 56:51

It is a wonderful story. And it starts out, it's here, it, this would be the end of the time of the Judges towards the very end. And we meet a man of the tribe of Levi whose name is Elkanah. And he has a wife named Hannah. And if you come down to chapter 1:5, the Lord had shut up her womb. So we see not only that Hannah is barren, is not able to have children - like we saw so many of the wives of the patriarchs back in Genesis - but we find out that the Lord has done this. I mean, this is His choice. And Elkanah her husband tells her in verse 8,

8 "Hannah, why weepest thou? and why ieatest now not? and why is thy heart grieved? Am I not better to the than 10 sons?"

Elkanah seems to think that his love for Hannah fills the void, and she should be just fine without not having children. You start imagining what her life would be like. Any woman without children is seen with disdain. And it's always seen as her fault. I don't know how much it would be known or even believed that the Lord would have chosen this for her. And, and she is not happy. She's not eating, she's weeping. I think it's interesting: Elkanah thinks his love is enough. But he doesn't think that her love apparently is enough because he marries a second wife named Peninnah, who has multiple children. And I've always thought if he would have been quite so cavalier if he did not have children from another wife.

We see a parallel in the beginning of the New Testament with Zacharias and Elizabeth and no children, and Zacharias is petitioning the Lord for his son every bit as much as Elizabeth is. But I think if I just tried to think of what this is like for Hannah not to have a husband that really understands her pain. Now, according to the King James version of this story, it is verse 6,

I Sam 1:6 "[And] her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the Lord had shut up her womb."

In the Hebrew, you can see the adversary in King James is Peninnah, the other wife, which all we've just adds to the angst, adds to the feeling of horror that I am not doing what I should do. But interesting in the Septuagint, the Greek translation, it is not Peninnah that's her adversary. It's her depression, that she is almost paralyzed with depression, that she can't do this, which is another interesting thing. But I just think a lot of us can relate to just feeling worthless because it feels like what the Lord wants us to do, we aren't able to do. I can't find it in the scriptures, but I am sure that Hannah has been praying to the Lord for a child for a long, long, long, long time. But something happens, this family comes to the sanctuary.

Now you remember they don't have a temple yet, that's not going to happen until King David is, is King, when he starts the preparation. And it won't actually be built until King Solomon. The tabernacle they had during the time of Moses, but now they're in Shiloh. It's the kind of the major population center where there is some makeshift sanctuary that houses the Ark of the Covenant. And the Israelites who are still faithful to Jehovah make a pilgrimage there to offer sacrifice and pray. And it seems like Elkanah and his two wives Penina and Hannah and they're chill and pettiness, children make that pilgrimage each year. And I love this story where it shows a woman has access to the sanctuary, that that there's not a separation there, that women are not considered appropriate to go there. She comes to the sanctuary. And in verse 9,

9 "Eli, the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the Lord."

They call it temple, but it's a makeshift temple. And verse 10,

10 "And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the Lord, and wept sore."

But I'd say this prayer, and we don't have the full prayer. But she's, there's something more in it. But in this part of the prayer that is recorded, she vows a vow, and says, "

Oh, Lord of hosts, do you know this is the first time in the Hebrew Bible in the Old Testament, that someone uses the phrase, "Oh Lord of hosts". Hanna is the one that calls God that.

1:11 "O Lord of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child.,"

I think actually, in the Hebrew, it is a child. It is, she's not asking male or female, she wants a child,

"then I will give him unto the Lord all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head." The Septuagint makes it very clearly a Nazirite, making him a Nazirite forever. But there is in this, I just think there's something that's changed in her. If she's saying, 'Please let me have a child. But I'm not thinking now that that child is going to be around to take care of me in my old age's security. I'm not saying I want a child like all the other women, so they will, it will take away the reproach that I have among society.' She's saying, 'I want a child and I will give him back to You.' There's something, it's like she has become fruitful before she ever conceived a child.

And another cool thing in Hebrew, do you know the word for womb is the very same root word as compassion. And I just think she has a womb and it is full. And it's saying, I will give this to the Lord that he can bless the people, if you'll just give that to me. And you know, just kind of looking ahead, right, she does have a son that she named him Samuel, meaning 'name of God,' and he's going to be the one who will be the last judge, and the priest that will anoint the first two kings of Israel. He changes the whole time period, this Samuel is going to make a huge difference. But she's still in that temple praying. And the priest Eli sees her. And what does he assume? I mean, here's another man in her life who misunderstands her. And I just think I think we can understand that we can feel that. Her priesthood leader thinks she's drunk and accuses her of being drunk.

Tammy 1:04:19

That's in verse 14, go find it, highlight it. You're absolutely right.

Camille 1:04:24

Uhhh, she's praying with her lips moving but she's not saying the words out loud. And that's what he thinks. We know that Hannah is not offended. She's filled with the spirit that she doesn't take offense from this. She simply says no, no, no.

1:15 ".....I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink but have poured out my soul before the Lord."

Don't count me as a handmaid for the daughter of Belial [verse 16] I'm not a worthless good for nothing woman here but "out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hereto." And Eli "said, Oh, okay, then go in peace. Verse 17, and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition. She doesn't say what it is. He just says go. And she does in verse 18. And she started to eat again. And end of verse 18, her countenance was no more sad. There is a tense in Hebrew that is sometimes called the prophetic perfect. And it allows you to say things in the present tense that haven't happened yet. I love it. And it's like here is she is, she's like, she has faith, like the assurance of things hoped for, even when evidence isn't seen. She walks out of there happy. And nothing has changed physically about this. But she is comforted. She's full. She's fruitful.

She then leaves; she conceives a child in a year. She's had this child, she doesn't go back for the sacrifice, says 'I won't go until the child is weaned, and then I will give him back.' But I want to point out verse 23. Elkanah her husband said unto her, as he's ready to go back to Shiloh, 'do what seemeth thee good: tarry until thou hast weaned him, only the Lord establish his word.' But in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in the Septuagint, it actually says, "May the Lord establish that which cometh out of thy mouth." There's something this, I think, makes Hannah a prophetess and underscores, she has an increased wisdom and spirituality connection with the Lord, that she will say, and do things that really do come from the Lord. And you can take it to the bank.

So that's what happens. The chapter ends when she takes that little boy now back to the temple, back to the sanctuary and gives him to Eli to raise there as his assistant in a sense - and he's a small child - and goes away, truly rejoicing. There is something about that, that you've got to say that Hannah understands more than typically what it would be for a mother. Because what mother would rejoice at something like that? She has a bigger picture and she's willing to give it all for the Lord.

Tammy 1:07:32

Well, especially in verse 28, when she says, "Therefore, also I have lent him to the Lord." Like he's mine, and I'm just gonna lend him to the Lord. Like, that's her bigger picture. I totally agree. Like I love how that wording right there. 'Bigger', I'm putting that next to 'the Lord'.

Holly 1:07:47

So in that prayer, she must have felt something instantly that he heard. The spirit must have overcome, it's just not written that she knew what was going to happen. She knew she would bear this child and give him up. Because you would have to have more, you would have to be comforted with and given strength. I was saying it's hard when my kids go on missions, you know. I have one on a mission right now, called me for Mother’s Day. I can't get enough of looking at that little face of his. But to take that baby you just weaned and give it to some man. I mean, he's not, Eli's not just some man, but you know. .

And the environment around the tabernacle is not really good right now because Eli's sons are jerks.

Tammy 1:08:38

naughty.

Holly 1:08:39

Yeah, they're naughty out there.

Tammy 1:08:41

No one will take good as good a care of him as you will.

There's no way

Holly 1:08:47

So she had to have been given some, yes, something we don't know, some sort of endowment that allowed her

Camille 1:08:55

Yeah, she's a different person when she leaves.

Holly 1:08:58

She's a different person, she was overcome with the spirit like, you know, we see in the Book of Mormon.

Tammy 1:09:03

Well, and for her to be able for her to be able to sing His, the Lord's praises. In I Samuel chapter two Hannah sings and there's these beautiful words and imagery when she says, "And Hannah prayed and said, My heart rejoiceth in the Lord, mine horn is exalted in [the word hord we've learned this year is a symbol of Christ, and power and strength]] is exalted in the Lord. My mouth is enlarged over my enemies because I rejoice in thy salvation. There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God." And rock, we've learned this year is 'Eben' and it is a symbol of the Savior. And so she just, she hands her son over and then she praises God and sings his name.

Holly 1:09:46

I love that and that she could be a prophetess like you said,

Camille 1:09:49

Yes, and by the end of verse 10, at the end of that "he shall give strength into his king". There's no kings yet in Israel. Isn't that prophetic? "and exalt the horn of his anointed." Priestess in the Septuagint, Messiah in Hebrew, this is Messiah. This is Messiah, a prophetess. Truly she is bearing witness of Him.

Tammy 1:10:14

Yeah. And then how much do we love the I Samuel 2:19?

Camille 1:10:19

Oh, I know,

Tammy 1:10:21

Read that, Holly, you have to read that.

Holly 1:10:23

2:19 "Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice."

Tammy 1:10:33

Oh, I'm just imagining his mom like, I wonder what size he is this year? I wonder how much he's grown? How much, how big should I make it?

Camille 1:10:41

And we learned about the priestly garments, that he's got a linen ephod in verse 18, that he's girded with that would be kind of like the priests would have, as his priest's assistant. And the high priest has a coat that go, or has a little, has a coat that goes over it. You wonder if this, I mean, that's what Samuel is going to be. Perhaps she was helping to prepare that for his priesthood duties that he will take on too.

Tammy 1:11:10

Oh, absolutely. Because we learned back in Exodus 32,33,34,35, about these wise women who have the ability to sew and you bet Hannah was one of them; she would have that skill. Oh, it's so beautiful.

Camille 1:11:23

And then and then 20 and 21 - isn't that wonderful? where the Lord "blessed Elkanah and his wife and said, The Lord give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the Lord." In verse 21, "....the Lord visited Hannah, and that she conceived and bare three sons and two daughters." She has other children, but we focus on Samuel, and we'll always see her as Hannah's-him as Hannah's son. I've always thought that when moms send their sons and daughters on missions, it's like giving making a Nazirite vow with them. It's just for a short time, which sometimes wasn't the Nazirite vow. But they're restricted in their association. They have appearance that that is different than you could see them from afar. And then dietary differences, that's not different for missionaries than others, but for a time and Hannah was saying, 'Yep, I'm not just going to send him on a mission for two years. I'm sending him for life.' It is beautiful.

Tammy 1:12:32

Go ahead, Holly.

Holly 1:12:33

No, I was just thinking about here's this woman who she was so bitter, you know, bitterness in her soul. She was so bitter and angry, and she wept sore. And now has completely changed. It's comforting for me. Because you know, I'm kind of bitter sometimes. And I think, you know, I'm not saying my son is going to grow up to be like Samuel. But I just think that if you put your trust in the Lord, look what happened. And she went in believing like, absolutely this can happen. And now there's no bitterness in her whatsoever. She's this incredible, strong, powerful woman. And not only that, that because of that, then she was blessed with more, more than she ever imagined or dreamed of.

Camille 1:13:29

Isn't that the way God works?

Holly 1:13:29

It's just a great reminder. What'd you say? I

Camille 1:13:33

I think that my God works, we ask for a little fork and He gives us the whole house, you know? It's so much more! I've often just thought a lot of times God will take us to that place where no one can help us but Him. And when there's no one else that understands, sometimes those are our best prayers, where we finally, finally break through. And that's what seems to have happened to her. She's just saying, I don't know what the answer is, but You are the only one that can help me. And it's in that moment, she discovers really how much God loves her and how much of a contribution she can make independent of whether she ever bares a child or not.

Holly 1:14:17

I love that.

Tammy 1:14:20

Right there. That was it, Holly. That's the reason. I'm like, I can't control my tears. So thank you. Camille, thank you so much for teaching us about that. And as we go to 1 Samuel 2:21, which we did read, we're gonna read the last sentence, it says, ".....And the child Samuel grew before the Lord." And in the next segment, we're going to talk about some of that growth.

Segment 6 1:14:43

....

Tammy 1:14:44

So here's what I want to know: have either one of you ever called someone's name more than once to get their attention?

Holly 1:14:51

Yes, yes.

Camille 1:14:52

Yes

Tammy 1:14:53

Yes. How many times is too many? That's what I want to know, because I go from zero to anger in two times. If you can't hear me the second time I called your name, what are you doing right now? You know? How many times is too many times for you, Holly, to call your kid's name?

Twice,

Twice. They should probably hear it.

Holly 1:15:10

It's the same thing. But with my youngest it's about 15 times.

Tammy 1:15:15

Totally is, it is 15 times.

Holly 1:15:18

Well, a child psychologist once said, "If your children are driving you crazy, it's because you taught them to." So I was always really good, you know, like, and now my baby-oh. I get mad at myself because I taught him, I trained him to not listen to me, apparently.

Tammy 1:15:40

Until you call his name the 15th time. Yeah,

Holly 1:15:42

I have to use that certain voice, you know?

Yeah, totally. What about you Camille, is there anyone's name you've had to call more than once?

Camille 1:15:52

Yes, I'm sure, I am sure. I haven't had the children that has tried the patience that way. I guess it depends on how much I really need them and want them how many times I'm willing, you know?

Tammy 1:16:03

Yeah, yeah, totally. Let's go into 1 Samuel chapter three and find out what this conversation about calling someone's name has to do with the story found in verses 1-1. So we have Samuel the boy and he is growing up. We read that in the last segment, that he grew before the Lord. And here's this interesting scenario. We're going to mark a couple of these verses. In verse 1 it says "the child Samuel ministered unto the Lord before Eli. And the word of the Lord was precious in those days," Highlight the word 'precious'; that actually means 'very rare' or 'scarce'. Isn't that interesting? The word of the Lord was scarce. And "there was no open vision."

Now there's a play on words here in verse 2. "And it came to pass [that] at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see." Like, there could be some illusion here, too. Maybe Eli is losing his spiritual vision as well. Like there's just no one that can receive revelation, and we need someone to do that. And in comes this beautiful story, including Samuel. So we're going to start right here. And we're going to read in verse 3 and can we each just take a verse. And we'll start with Holly and we'll just go Holly, Camille, me. 1 Samuel 3:3-8.

Holly 1:17:14

3 "And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;

Camille 1:17:26

4 "That the Lord called Samuel: and he answered, Here am I."

Tammy 1:17:30

Highlight 'Here am I'. Okay, verse 5. "And he ran unto Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou calledst me. And he said, I called not; lie down again. And he went and lay down.

Holly 1:17:43

6 "And the Lord called yet again, Samuel. And Samuel arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And he answered, I called not, my son; lie down again.

Camille 1:17:55

7 "Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord, neither was the word of the Lord yet revealed unto Him.

Tammy 1:18:01

8 "And the Lord called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And Eli perceived that the Lord had called the child."

Okay, three times the Lord calls this sweet little boy Samuel, and each time he says, Here, am I. And we have this exchange between Eli and Samuel, and Eli's like I didn't call you. And then Eli gives instructions to Samuel in verse 9. And Eli says to Samuel, Okay, listen, go lie down. And it will be that if you hear this again, if you have the voice call, you say, "Speak, Lord, for thy servant heareth." So Samuel went and lay down in his place. And sure enough, he hears the voice. And Samuel says, "Speak, Lord, for thy servant heareth." I want us to look at verse 7, though. And this is interesting, because why is it that Samuel could not recognize the voice? What does verse 7 tell us about that?

Camille 1:18:54

The word of the Lord had not yet been revealed to him. I mean, he had not had that experience, right? And I think that's something that just, we need to learn how to hear the voice of the Lord.

Tammy 1:19:08

Yeah. Are we born with it? Or is it something we have to practice? Or is it both? What are your thoughts?

Holly 1:19:15

Well, I think I mentioned this once the first time I was on. But my sister Amy lives by the Spirit just, it tells her to do the most incredible things. And she's always seems to be blessing people's lives. And that I've always said, Amy, how do you do it? She goes, Well, Holly, you just have to LISTEN to the Spirit. And the more you listen to it, the easier it will become. And not only that, but you actually have to follow through with what it tells you to do. And so I think that's true in this case. You have to know what you're listening for and then once you hear it, you have to do what it says. And he's learning to do that. Now he had to lay down and the Lord is going to instruct him.

Tammy 1:20:01

So how, well how important was Eli's role in this experience with Samuel as an adult?

Camille 1:20:06

Oh it's critical, it is critical because he did recognize, but he knew the situation. And so, much like I think I hear missionaries very often have been trained to do this. I didn't know this when I served my mission. But when they recognize that someone is feeling the spirit and being taught by the Spirit, they are now taught to let that person know that is the spirit that you are feeling. And that, I just think that is a fabulous skill to be able to 1) to learn yourself, but then to help someone else to learn. And Eli was invaluable for that.

Holly 1:20:45

And we do that in Primary, that's our main focus is to teach them to feel the spirit. And I remember saying all the time, Quiet. Can you, can you feel that? Do you know what that is? And then they raise their hand like, how do you feel it? Are you feeling it in your heart? Are you feeling it in your mind? See how quiet it got in here when we heard that story, or we sang that song? And it was fascinating. And one cute little girl said, "Well, it makes me feel like I want to cry." And I said, "Oh, I get it. Me too." But we all feel it differently. But I loved how the church put such a big emphasis on that, to teach these children to recognize it;, we would point it out constantly that that was the spirit we just felt. I didn't even apply that.

Camille 1:21:38

That is so good. Because I think for so long, a lot of times the assumption is, Oh, children are too young. To see Samuel, Samuel is one example from back here and what you're saying in primary - that is so exciting.

Tammy 1:21:50

So exciting. And I think it's so important for us to know and use Galatians 5:22-23, which describes all the ways you can feel the spirit. I mean, look at this, turn there. It's so cool. It says that you can feel the spirit through love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. And then pointing out those moments to our children, or anytime we teach a lesson, I think we have to be able to recognize, Hey, kids, you're feeling the spirit. Like I love Becky Farley. She's been on before. And when her kids were little, and they come home from school, she would say, Hey, how was your day? And they'd explain it to her. And then she would say to them, did you feel joy today? Were you happy today? Did you ever feel and she tried to find one of these words? And if they did, she would say, You put, you felt the Spirit today, just want to let you know, you felt it out there on the playground and that you can feel it so many times. And I just think that is so important for us to be able to do. I love that.

Holly 1:22:43

I like that. I sent Tam a thing yesterday that said, "The spirit doesn't only help you feel all those things, but the Spirit also helps you to know when to keep your mouth shut and not say things and to listen."

Tammy 1:22:59

Totally. That's that gentleness part for sure. And then I often use this scripture when I go and speak to groups, especially teenagers. And I will ask them, How many of you wanted to punch your sibling today? And so many kids will raise their hand. And then I said, And how many of you didn't when you were tempted? And they'll put their hand up and I said, You felt the spirit. That's temperance, that's long suffering. And so I just think there's so many ways to feel the spirit, we can recognize those with everyone we come in contact with. Well, let's read this quote. I thought this was really applicable to what we've been talking about today. It's by Elder Henry B. Eyring; he gave this in the October 2021 Conference talk called "The faith to Ask and Then Act." And I think it just fits beautifully with Hannah and Ruth. And so let's go to this. And here we go. Camille, will you read this quote for us? Sure.

Camille 1:23:44

"You have questions for which you seek answers. You have at least enough faith to hope that you will receive answers from the Lord through His servants. You will not have the opportunity to ask aloud for answers from the speakers, but you can ask your loving Father in prayer. I know from experience that answers will come to fit your needs and your spiritual preparation. If you need an answer that is important to your eternal welfare or that of others, the answer is more likely to come. Yet even then, you may receive - as did Joseph Smith - the answer to be patient. If your faith in Jesus Christ has led to a heart softened through the effects of His Atonement, you will be more able to feel the whisperings of the spirit in answer to your prayers."

Tammy 1:24:34

Thank you. Any thoughts to share with anything you're thinking? And then we'll end with that.

Camille 1:24:40

I'm thinking of Doctrine and Covenants 6:14, where the Lord teaches

D & C 6:14 ".....as often as thou hast inquired, thou has received instruction from my spirit. If it had not been so, that wouldst not have come to the place where thou art at this time."

And I think just so often, it's looking backwards that helps us to see how frequently the Lord has, He's always been there for us. And He's always answered our prayers, and that you recognize - maybe at the time you didn't - but when you needed that help, and you look back and say it was there, you know, important for my eternal welfare and that of others. He helped me even though I might not have acknowledged it at the time.

Tammy 1:25:34

Yes. What about you, Holly?

Holly 1:25:38

Um. Oh, geez, you want tears again, always from me. I don't know. And I again, I talked last time in October about how when my cute little missionary gave me that blessing. And he said, "Your faith is sufficient." And that's all he said. And I, since then, I've thought, I really need to study that and see what really that means. Because I don't, I really haven't studied that out and thought or even asked, to be honest, since that time what that means. But this quote, you have at least enough faith to hope that you will receive answers. And I haven't even asked. So, I guess that's my answer, right? You know, here I am again, on this podcast that I didn't want to do, and having this quote that I have enough faith and to find out, so I just need to put my faith in Jesus Christ. And I loved how it said "softened through the effects of His Atonement" in that quote. So I need to clearly use the atonement in my life and ask for the things that I need to know.

Camille 1:27:09

Hannah did just that very thing, didn't she?

Holly 1:27:12

Yeah, she did. I'm in love with Hannah today.

Tammy 1:27:16

You often wonder, because, as I always say, I wish there was a little asterix in between verses that said, *22 years later, you know, or how long it took to get the answer. Because I wish I knew how long Hannah had prayed, how many years? Or how long did it take for her to finally take it to the Lord? Maybe she was in the same place as you are Holly. I don't know if it really will work and how long it took for her to be encouraged to believe that the Lord through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, His softness of that would answer her prayers. Yeah,

Holly 1:27:46

Yeah. I'm grateful for today.

Tammy 1:27:50

Well, good. Then you'll still be my friend.

Holly 1:27:52

Maybe

Tammy 1:27:53

It was, it was touch and go before we started today. So just take a minute and gather your thoughts from everything we talked about today. Is there one specific point in our discussion that kind of stood out to you or any kind of takeaway you're gonna have?

Camille 1:28:06

What a difference one woman can make that can affect generations. And you think of that with, with Ruth and her posterity as the first major, I mean, this king of United Israel, and Hannah, and choices she made, and willingness to sacrifice that changed the course of history, as well, with her Samuel being the one that would anoint those first two kings and bring them really squarely to follow Jehovah. We don't know how much our influence can bear fruit for generations.

Tammy 1:28:57

Great takeaway.

Holly 1:28:57

I love that. Mine's pretty much the same, won't be as worded as beautifully as yours Camille. But mine was definitely Hannah and that she, her bitterness in her heart and in her soul. And when she prayed, she wept sore. And then the difference it made and that after, her countenance was no more sad. I loved that. And then the blessings that were given to her after that, that she couldn't have even imagined, like we had discussed earlier. Anyway, I find that profound in life and how Camille be talked about that it was just the beginning of what was to come forth and how incredible that is. And in my own life, I, you know, my children are not going to grow up to, you know, change worlds and that you know, I think that. But for me, my own life, it can be changed. So I want my countenance, you know, to change and not be sad.

Tammy 1:30:23

That was a beautiful takeaway. Thank you, Holly. Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your story with us. Ahh. My takeaway was, I just want to say ditto to both of what you said that the powerful influence that women can have in the lives of everyone. We're writing our own scripture every day by our actions and our words. And Camille, I liked so much when you taught us in verse 6 that the word 'adversary' in Greek can mean 'depression', and that it provoked her sore to make her fret. How many of us can relate to that, and going to verse 10, that she was in bitterness of soul. Like that's the point she reached before she prayed - in bitterness of soul - and then prayed to the Lord. And how many of us are there, have been there, and get those words. And then Holly, I like how you said her countenance was changed, she was sad no more. I think that's what the Lord will do for us. He promises that as our Goel, as our divine Redeemer, as our divine Kinsman, which we have learned this year. So, thank you. Thank you, both of you, you beautiful women. That was amazing. And how many times the spirit? Gosh, it was so strong today. How many times the spirit testified this is true. This is real. And this is good. So thank you. Thank you. I love you both.

Camille 1:31:34

Thank YOU.

Holly 1:31:35

Thanks, Tam.

Tammy 1:31:36

That's the end. We did it. So, Thank You. K, we would love to hear what your big takeaway was from this episode. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook or following us on Instagram go do it. It is a great place to ask questions as you study and I try to answer anything I can throughout the week, so does everyone else. It is such a fun community and people also just say things that they like and make comments throughout the week. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and let us know what you learned. I read them all and I love hearing about them.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDSliving.com/sundayonmonday, and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because that's where we have the links to all the references and the transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our beautiful study group participants were Holly Howarth and Camille Fronk Olson. And you can find more information about these friends at LDSliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Katie Lambert and me. It is edited by Haley Higham. It is recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week.

And please remember, you are God's favorite.

In 1 Samuel 3:10. It says, "And the Lord came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak: for thy servant heareth." Yeah.

Holly 1:32:59

I want to sit down. I want to go to lunch with Hannah.

Tammy 1:33:02

Right. Oh, and Ruth. Can there be a women's tea in the next life?

Holly 1:33:10

Ending with mate'.

Tammy 1:33:11

Yes, with a little bit of mate'. It's so good. It's so good. (laughter)