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[00:00:00] Have we got a treat for you? You're not even going to believe this. I'm so excited because we get to study Doctrine and Covenants section 18, and we have the soundtrack of this section for you. Every single one of us will know the songs that we have selected, but you may not know the stories about how they came to be.

So I invited the lyrical genius, And musician who wrote and composed each one of these songs. And I think you're going to love Doctrine and Covenants section 18. After we get done studying it in this unique musical way, welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week.

And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my listening friend, Alison McKinney. Hi, Alison.

Now, another incredible thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. Sometimes one, it's always a little bit different. And today we have got. Such a special treat for you. This guest is the reason I grew up knowing that the worth of souls is great in the sight of God and how great would be my joy if I could bring one soul into God's kingdom.

And also that I could truly walk by faith. I had the most incredible opportunity. To go to the home of sister Janice Kapp Perry. I got to interview her about all of her songs that she wrote and hear the stories behind these incredible songs. She really is a lyrical genius, and it was such a cool moment.

You guys, I was in the room where she wrote her songs. I touched the piano. That she wrote the songs on. And so throughout this episode today, I'm going to have us go into Doctrine and Covenants section 18. I'm going to give you the verses of scripture to mark, and then I'm going to play for you Janice Kapp Perry explaining the story behind the song that the verse prompted her to write.

And it's going to be so amazing. So, here's me with Sister Perry in her house telling the story of how this whole episode came to be. Hi friend. Hi Tammy. How you feeling? I'm a little nervous about it. About this, but I'll do my best. I think you're going to do great, absolutely. Well when I was reading Doctrine and Covenants section 18, and I saw the verse of scripture about how great shall be your joy, and specifically in verse 15, I remembered singing that song as a young woman, and I thought, would it be so cool to have Janice Kapp Perry tell us the story behind that song.

And then as I continued to read section 18. So many things stood out that connected to so many of your songs and so I just on a whim I reached out and you Were so lovely to say yes, so thank you Well now here we are and I have to do it here. We are there's no getting out We are in her home, and I'm telling you right now It's a treat like 15 year old me's kind of freaking out right now because I sing all of your songs And if 15 year old me knew that I would be in your home meeting you in person She wouldn't believe it.

No way. So this is cool. Thank you for doing this. Okay. Thank you So I like to ask all of my guests at the beginning of each episode Tell me what the Holy Ghost taught you as you read section 18 It was a very interesting section. It said things weren't going so well in the church right then Even though Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer had all Had all received revelations.

Yeah, and and they needed to Go to the written word now from now on because they they hadn't had this connection before. And, and so, the things that they had received, now they wanted, the Lord wanted them to put it in writing, and that, and the whole section really is about depending on the written word now.

Because they have it. And, uh, verse two said, Behold, I have manifested unto you by [00:05:00] my Spirit in many instances, that the things which you have written are true, wherefore you know they are true. And if you know they are true, behold, I give unto you a commandment that you rely upon the things that are written.

There's, there's one other scripture that I like. In verse 30 we read, And you have that which is written before you, wherefore you must perform it according to the words which are written. It's just stressed through there, through that whole section. That's what they rely on now. Yeah. Because they have heard the word of God through their leaders.

And they have it to read. Wow, I like that a lot. Why, Janice, I have a follow up question. Why is it important for you to trust in the written word? Well, I need it right now because I can't remember things very well and even just thinking about this today. I read a lot more than I did here just because once you're into it.

Well, it means everything to you, and you start feeling, feeling things pretty deeply when it's there in writing from God. Yeah. And I have a, I feel like for you as a songwriter, when you would read these words, these scriptural words, that you would feel them so deeply, it would cause you to then write something about it.

Exactly. So that's pretty cool. Well, thank you. Okay. So in the next segment, then we are going to dive into one of her most beloved songs. And I am excited to ask her story behind how she wrote it.

Segment 2

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In section 18 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord gave Oliver Cowdery instructions to help lay the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ. This same counsel applies to each one of us as we build up our faith in Christ. Go to Doctrine and Covenants section 18 and bracket off verses one through five.

What you want to do, first of all, is in verse one, where it says, Behold, because of the thing which you, my servant, Oliver Cowdery, have desired to know of me, I give unto you these words. He had a question. That's the thing. There was something that Oliver Cowdery wanted to know, but I love that right there where it says he desired to know, and it made me think, what are some things I have desired to know?

And at what age did I first desire? Because then as he goes on and giving this revelation to Oliver Cowdery. Most specifically, he says in verse five, wherefore, if you shall build up my church upon the foundation of my gospel and my rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. That foundation is so important.

So what in your life, what has built your foundation when it comes to being a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints? And how young were you when you first remember your foundation being built? I think it's something as simple as prayer. That might be one of the easiest things to teach a child.

I know for me, it was one of the first I learned as I was yelling throughout my house to find my shoes. Because I was late for school and my mom wouldn't help me or answer me. And I ran into her bedroom, saw her kneeling on her bed and praying. And she didn't move. She didn't help me find my shoes. She finished her prayer.

And I knew right then, prayer is important. So I immediately thought of the song, A Child's Prayer. How much do we love that song? And I've always wanted to know, why did she write this song? And what was it in her life that caused her to go to the Lord in prayer? So I asked her, tell us the story about A Child's Prayer.

A few of the songs that I have written have a, hold a particularly special place in my heart. And, uh, A Child's Prayer is right at the top of the list. Oh, tell us why. Well, we all have, are human and we occasionally wonder in difficult times if the Lord is really there and He's hearing our prayer and answering.

During one of my times of frustration over a seemingly unanswered prayer, I wrote a song called Lord, Are You There? I later decided to write a children's version of it, which I titled The Child's Prayer. In my first version of the song, the child asked Heavenly Father, are you really there? And the Lord answered, pray, I am here, speak, I'm listening, in the counter melody.

When the piece was chosen as one of the winners in the Ensign Songwriting Contest, I was taught by the Correlation Committee. That only direct quotations from the Lord should be attributed to him. They suggested having a parent or a teacher or anyone else sing, sing that other part, the second part. Pray he is there, speak he is listening.

The suggestion [00:10:00] was very good. It literally means any two people can sing this song. So it was a nice thing that they did. I received many touching letters from people. Who had sweet experiences with a song, probably more than any other I've written. One mother related when her small child needed an MRI, they couldn't get him to lie still until she promised to entertain him with primary songs.

He said, okay, I'll go first and started singing a child's prayer. The doctor had had tears in his eyes. That's what she said. Another mother wrote that her son had broken off two back teeth and the dentist had tried for so long to get the roots out that the boy was completely unnerved and he suggested he go home and try again later.

The mother said, would you let him try one more time if I sing a child's prayer to you? Oh, wow. And he, he agreed and the procedure was completed. Hmm. So, um, Some are on the lighter side. My grandmother said when her two and a half year old granddaughter was asked to say the blessing on the food, she began, Heavenly Father, are you really there?

So I've heard this performed at funerals a lot. And years ago I sang it with my friends in the Tabernacle Choir and that was quite an experience I never expected to have. And for that occasion, Craig Jessop asked if I would write a preamble. Something leading up, setting a, setting a stage for the, the main song.

So eight lines were added at the beginning, and a few lines were added at the end. And that's how the choir always sings it now. Yeah. So, Janice finished telling us stories about prayer, specifically prayer in the lives of other people. So, then I asked her, does she have a story about prayer in her own life?

Yes, I had a very personal experience with this in July of 1998, just three days after my husband and I had returned from a tabernacle choir tour in Europe. We were involved in a serious car accident at the mouth of Provo Canyon, almost head on. And I, I was injured in my throat badly. And I, I, I felt like I couldn't speak or breathe if I, if I tried to.

To lay down, I couldn't breathe. I thought my neck was broken. I really did. And when the ambulance got there, I said, I can't lie down in the ambulance. I can't breathe. And so they, um, They said, well, at the hospital they had to have me lie still. They had to have a test to tell me if my neck was broken. So I desperately searched for something to calm me emotionally while I had to go through that Kapp scan.

Here's what I held on to. Some of my own words. Pray, he is there. Speak, he is listening. You are his child. His love now surrounds you. I wasn't saying it, but it just cycled in my mind. And I somehow got through that test. And they determined my neck was not broken, but it was badly damaged and would need some surgery the next day.

So Uh, that my own songs come to me too. And it certainly did in that time. And I recovered from that completely, but in the moment it was desperation. And the words comforted me enough to get through it. Wow. So this song is a time when it helped you. Oh, that's neat. The thing that I love about this song and when you talked about it is that it was your own personal experience where you were praying and wondering if God was really there.

Do, what was that about? Do you remember what prayer you had? Would you be willing to share the personal prayer that you were asking or what brought you to your knees? Yes. At the time when I started writing music, something pretty discouraging happened that that I, this hand. It started curling up and I couldn't hold it up in a normal position to play.

Is that your left hand? My left hand. Uh, but that, that was the end of my playing in church or anywhere else publicly. It must have been devastating. But here, sitting here at my piano, you know, I could find ways to make it work. But I, I wrote this song because I prayed so sincerely and I thought, I'm, I'm doing important work.

Heavenly Father will probably bless it and just make it better. Yeah, I would think so. That would have been my prayer too. And he didn't, of course. [00:15:00] And so, I don't know, just my way of expressing whatever is happening. I wrote this song. So I started, uh, writing a song of comfort. I went to 40 specialists. I started at the very highest one, went down, twice I went to a hospital for a week.

Where they said they could fix it, if I'd stay there for a week, they couldn't. And I, and then I went to a place where Elder Maxwell was speaking, and so was I, in a lesser form. And afterwards, there he was, and I asked my question. Told him what had happened with my hands. I said, I'm dediKapping myself to writing church music, and I can't use my left hand.

I've had blessings, they say that sometime in my future, or when I have enough faith, or whatever. And I said, what do you say? And he said, let me think about that for just a minute. He said, the Lord will not cut short any trial that He has designed for your good. Wow. And, you know, after he said that I, I thought for some reason he's trying me this way, I don't have to play publicly, I can still manage to get my music written down and so it goes.

That's been many, many years and it still wants to curl up and not cooperate. But I don't think about it anymore. Wow. So. Thank you. I didn't know that story with Elder Maxwell. That's pretty profound. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. It was coming from him, so I was at peace about it anyway, more. Well, and I think everyone listening, hearing that, are probably at peace with some of their own trials.

So, thank you for sharing that story. So let's listen to the song that spawned in her and so many people's lives a story about prayer.

Segment 3

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[00:20:00]

We're still in Doctrine and Covenants section 18, highlight verse 10. It says, remember the worth of souls is great in the sight of God. So back in October, 2024, midway through the morning session of general conference, I received so many text messages and messages on Facebook and on Instagram from friends and family and all of you who listen.

And in one way or another, you said, quote, you're God's favorite. They've said it in conference. Elder Carl D. Hirst's talk called God's Favorite was for me the talk of all talks. And I love that so many people said, Are you hearing this? He's calling us God's favorite. And I love the talk, but specifically this part.

He says, You might know something secret about yourself that makes you feel unlovable. However, right, you might be about what you know about yourself. You are wrong to think that you have put yourself beyond the reach of God's love. We are sometimes cruel and impatient towards ourselves. in ways that we could never imagine being toward anyone else.

There is so much for us to do in this life, but self loathing and shameful self condemnation are not on that list. However misshapen we might feel we are, his arms are not shortened. No, they are always long enough to reach our reaching and embrace each one of us. That is why I love section 18 verse 10.

Remember, the worth of souls is great in the sight of God. You are God's favorite. And Sister Perry wrote a brand new song that she's added to her collection. It's called All Are Alike Unto God. And I asked her about this and to give us the inspiration for why she wrote it. I feel like it applies to all of us.

I went to this gather conference because my children invited me to come. They said it was very uplifting. I, I loved everything I heard. Everything that was done there was, it felt like church standards. Yeah. It was, it was really amazing. I was so glad I went. And they had asked me if I could write a theme song for them.

For our LGBTQ friends. And I knew right away that I wanted to. I didn't know what I was going to say. So I invited, uh, a member of that group, Megan Decker, to, to help me with the words. She is very experienced in, in knowing about that in her own life, and, and she came over here and we worked together to, because I didn't know what to write, and she did.

And we, we wrote together, we wrote the words for that song.

All are alike unto God. I chose that scripture because I truly believe it. And, and I felt the spirit really there as much as I had, I did it in general conference. It was good speakers. Uh, I, I, I can't, I couldn't explain it, but I knew I wanted that scripture, so I looked it up. Of all are alike unto God.

And Megan said it was perfect for her, so we worked through all those words together and she told me some of the real feelings those people have. And so she, she's largely responsible for the words. Though I put them into the form that I needed to write the song. Um, but she gave it an authenticity that it needed to.

Yeah. Well, I was there with my boys, and Steve was a, he does a lot of MC work. And so he was, I enjoyed being there from that aspect. And, I don't know, that song means a lot to me. I feel like it's, it's written very honestly. Well, what I love about this song is I played it for my daughters and It's the first time they heard it just recently, and they loved it so much that they called [00:25:00] our music person in our ward and said, can we please sing in sacrament meeting?

And if you got teenage girls asking to sing in sacrament meeting based on lyrics, that's pretty awesome. And so they are currently working on it to sing it in sacrament. Because I think it also resonated with them, kind of feeling lost as a teenager and not sure where they fit in. And that's what I love about this song is that.

The wording can apply to such a broad audience, but when you really think about who you wrote it for, that's, for me, it hits me at the heart, and your, the lyrics between, that you and Megan came up with, are, are just beautiful. And the chorus is, makes me weep. I love it so much. It's in the scriptures, so I can't argue with that.

You can't argue with the written word. That is so true. So let's listen to the beautiful song, All Are Alike Unto God,

Segment 4

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For our next song. The sister Kapp Perry told us about it's in Doctrine and Covenants, section 18, verses 11 through 16. This one is classic. It talks about how great shall be your joy in the soul who repented, and then how great will be your joy. If you can bring one soul into the kingdom of heaven, it's.

This is a classic, and I loved it growing up. I sung it a ton. So I was so excited to tell my own personal experience with these verses of scripture and with this song to Sister Perry, and I loved what she had to say about how she wrote it. My sister and I, you're going to love this story. We learned this when we lived in St.

Louis, Missouri, and we used to perform it. at the mission home when missionaries would come in or leave. It cracks me up because if you asked us to sing today, we'd probably tell you a hard no, but we would travel around and sing this duet and I grew to love this. And so of course, when I read section 18 and I saw these verses, this is why you're here because I thought, Oh, this is the song I sang with my sister.

And I have to know, tell me about the story behind how great shall be your joy. Well, in 1985, I received a request to compose a piece for Missionary Homecoming. Because it would be used in sacrament meeting, I based the song on two of my favorite scriptures, D& C 18 and 15. And if it so be that you should labor all your days, and bring save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy in the kingdom of my Father.

And, and John, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. The bridge of the song also refers to John 21, in which the Lord asks three times of Peter, Lovest thou me? And then instructs him, Feed my sheep. During, during the writing of this song, I reflected on my first experience in sharing the gospel with a close friend, high school teacher, Mary Redfield.

Who, as it happened, just passed away this week. Oh, I'm sorry. I love sports, and she was a great teacher and a great friend. And one day I stayed after school to help her correct papers. She was not a member of our church. I, while we were working, I suddenly felt such a, a burning desire to tell her about our church.

And to see if she'd come with me once. Oh, wow. She put down her papers and said, Well, tell me about it. I didn't, I didn't know what I was going to say. I couldn't even imagine how to start. But as I started, she said, I can tell this is important to me. She put her papers down and she said, Shoot. Oh, wow. Were you so nervous?

No. My heart was just beating out of my chest. I loved her so much. Such a great teacher and person. So, I I don't even remember exactly what my words were, but it was something about I belong to the one true church on earth. And I just wondered if you'd come and go with me one time. And see if you liked it, something like that.

She said, well, I'm a Methodist, you know. And I said, I did know that, but I just wondered if you'd come once, since we're kind of friends. So, uh, she said, well, I guess I could come one time. So, but remember, I am a Methodist. I said, okay. So we set up for that. She said, I, I can see that this means a lot to you.[00:30:00]

And I, I know we're friends, so I'll come, come once. When I had finished, she said, She set a time with me, and we would pick her up, and then she would come to my house for dinner, where I knew my mother was a stake missionary. Oh, wow. And that would work out very well. So, it was a fast and testimony when she, meeting when she came.

Babies crying everywhere. And we had one sister who bore her testimony every time. And because we all knew and loved her. It was fine. It was different, but it was fine. After the meeting, I said, uh, did you like it? And she said, well, we keep our babies down in the basement so that we can have, have, and when someone's taking care of them, teaching them, but we can have a A good quiet, quiet upstairs.

Well there's an idea. That's what I thought. But what I said to her was, we just, we just like to have our kids with us right in church from the beginning. And now they're going to have their songs in the new hymn book too, so another reason they need to be there. Yes. But I didn't know that then. So, after, after we were going out to the farm to have dinner, she said, Jani, I, I'll have to tell you I did feel something in your meeting.

And when we got to the, my mother was just prepared that she was coming to dinner and being a stake missionary and she was fearless in a very nice way. And she introduced her to the gospel and asked her if she would enjoy hearing the missionary lessons. Just seven lessons for an hour, and you would know all about our church, since you teach these kids at school.

And she did agree to that, and my mother's brother was also a stake missionary. And he gave her the lessons, and she agreed to baptism. Wow! And I, I just will never forget the day of her baptism. Standing there by the water and Seen my beloved friend become a member of our church. After that, we introduced her to a man in our ward whose wife had left him.

And they had a nice relationship right off and got married eventually. He was in the service. He was just home on leave then. So he had to leave for Biloxi, Mississippi. And so, he went ahead, and I, I went with her as far as Idaho, where I was able to meet her parents, who were none too glad that she had joined another church, but they were, They were nice to me.

And then we went on to Ogden, where I was going to work for a summer after my senior year. Stay with my grandparents and work there. I had a job lined up. So she went on, and I lost my friend. But I, here's what happened all these years later. I graduated in 56 from high school. And in 2023, she wrote me this letter and said, I just have to tell you something before I die.

And she said, she was like in her 90s and me in my 80s. And she said, I've decided to count up all the people that have been in the church because you talked to me that day after school. And she said, we had seven children, all active in the church. They all went on missions all at one. We counted up all the people that they baptized.

And she said, I, discounting everybody that I know, it's just over 100. Wow. I just sat there and wept. I bet. What if I hadn't said anything? But this has been a sad week because she's been dying and she, she did just die and I wish I was her at her funeral. You know, but They're going to send it to me on Zoom.

Oh, good. I'm so sorry for your loss. But what a beautiful story. And, especially when you go back, that's neat that that's one of your favorite verses of Scripture, because it says, How great shall be your joy if you bring one. And you did bring the one. And then you just perfectly demonstrated how much more joy [00:35:00] Because of the one, you just did your one job, and one person, and then so many people were able to find Jesus.

I've thought of that so many times, what if I hadn't said anything? Yeah. Anyway, she's been a very special person in my life. Thank you for sharing that story. That even means more to me now. When I think about all the times I sung that as a young teenage girl. There is power behind those words, so. Thank you, Janice.

It's the scriptures. It's the scriptures. It's the written word again, going back to how you started. That's awesome. Thank you. So, let's listen to How Great Shall Be Your Joy.

Segment 5

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When I first called Sister Perry and asked her if she'd be on the podcast, I told her that one of my absolute favorite songs that she ever wrote was, I Walk by Faith. And she said to me, Oh, that's my favorite song too, which I absolutely loved. Now faith is essential to our souls being saved. Having faith isn't easy.

Let's mark Doctrine and Covenants section 18 verses 18 and 19. It says, ask the Father in my name in faith, believing that you shall receive and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifests of all things, which are expedient unto the children of men. And if you have not faith, Hope and charity, you can do nothing.

Having faith, it really isn't easy. It can be so tricky. But I can remember singing this song at the top of my lungs and not just when I was in Young Women's. I have sung it several times throughout my life when I've just needed a little more [00:40:00] help to walk by faith. So here's what Sister Perry had to tell us about how she wrote this song.

It was in 1985, I think, when Art Greencap. Are you related? Do people always ask that? Yes, they do. People want to know. She got credit for all of her, the songs I wrote, and I got credit for her books. After a fireside, they'd come up and say, Oh, I just love your latest book. And I thought, Oh, maybe I should write one then.

That's pretty funny. So, no relation? Yes. Her husband and my father are cousins. Oh, perfect. Paper cap. That's fine. My name's Jacob Gap. Well, there you go. People always wonder, are they related? So, all right. Sorry to interrupt. Carry on. Yes. Uh, she called me. She was the Young Women's President at that time.

And she explained that the church had, the, the, the board members in connection with the first presidency had come up with this Seven Values for Young Women, and they wanted a song to, that would include them all. And she said, we want you to name them in order. And I said, Ooh, that might make a awkward song.

Yeah. And she said, you know, we won, we went on a retreat and we prayed that you would be able to write the song we need. Oh my goodness. And you will be able to. And so I, I said, okay, I can't see it now, but I'll, I, I can't see how to do it and name them in order, but I. I asked for my family to, to just, on a Sunday afternoon, to let me just go into my bedroom uninterrupted all afternoon while I prayed to know how to do that.

And it was the most unique writing experience I think I've ever had. I just, after I prayed about knowing how to leave, To have it be logical and yet be in the order of appearance. and I,

I just felt like a, whoever had been asked to write that song would write exactly what I wrote. I walked by Faith, a daughter of heavenly parents, divine amiah, nature by inheritance, and it was like dictation. That's the only time I could ever felt like that, writing a song. Wow. And I thought, this is the Lord's work, and He's helping me.

I, I wrote the whole song in that afternoon, and it seemed logical. Mm hmm. And she wanted the song to remind them of the order of the words, also. Wow. I, I called her and, and kind of sang it for her over the phone, and she said, See? We've been praying for you, too, and you did it. So then my cousin and I asked if Joy Saunders Lundberg, she's my cousin, and she's an author and writer.

We asked if we could write a single song on each of the values together. And, and she said, well, that would be nice, and I said, then we would put them on an album so they could remember them. So, uh, together we wrote the, the words for them, and then I wrote, sent them all to Music. And it was sung on the Young Women's Satellite Broadcast, and I was invited to.

be there. Wow. Oh, I bet. They had a huge choir of young women singing and I thought, boy, my prayer was answered on that that piece like never before. Indeed. It's the Lord's work and that's I wrote in my journal whenever the church asks me to do something specific I have extra help and I'm, I just have to I have to admit that, and, and love it, and, and just next time they ask me, I won't hesitate.

I won't think I can't do it. Yeah. Because I know there'll be extra help there. And they did the next year, they asked just one little light. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I love that title. Yeah. And so, but I just thought, what, I can write it, the help will come, it's the church. Mm hmm. And it, it just always has. That song is truly the anthem of my awkward adolescence.

I can remember singing I Walk By Faith at the top of my lungs, and throughout my experiences being a teenager and a young [00:45:00] adult, like there were times those lyrics would come back into my head when I just didn't feel like I had enough faith. And, and I shared with you earlier, like, you know, I, I was single for a long time and you know, an old woman, according to our culture, I was 35 when I got married.

And that song really changed me and helped me a lot. I'd love to resurrect that song. I think we should have young women singing that again. Why, why aren't they? I just wonder that all the time. I want my young women to know, I want my daughters to know the lyrics to that song. So anyone listening out there, if you're a young woman leader, Let's bring that song back.

It's so good. I can see why it's your favorite. You know, they added, The Prophet, I guess, added one value. Yes. And so we, we were able to adjust our music a little bit. We had a second recording that was done a little differently and, and that value is in it. So there's two versions of that song. I thought if these are, she, Sister Cab said these are the values for life.

Yep. They're not going to change. I agree. I don't know. I wish we still were. Boy, it was really successful for many years. And I, I just loved Sister Cap. I knew that I was related to her husband somehow. As I mentioned, people got us mixed up all the time, because they loved all the books I'd written. Well, and what I love about your story is just the reminder that when it's God's work, He'll get it done.

And you felt so confident in that. I had to learn that along the way. But when I did, then I, like they asked me to write another one for the women. Sister Bonnie Parkin was the Relief Society President at this time, and, and asked me to write a song for women. They had me come up to Salt Lake and say, this is what we need in the song, they had their whole, and we want it to be, it's going to be on a satellite broadcast, and we want it to be the song for women from now on.

And I said, I'm leaving on a trip in two days, when do you need it? And she said, uh, by then. We wanted on a satellite broadcast. I said, I'm not sure I can do that, but they gave me a stack of things to read like this. And when I got home, Michael Moody, who was the music chairman, called me and he said, Read, read their things over, but rely on yourself and the Lord for, for what you write.

So I, I stayed in this room, never even leaving once in 24 hours. Wow. My, uh, Michael called and gave me that good advice, and my daughter came and told, she just came from the temple, and she said something that just clicked with me, that that's my theme. Hmm. Hmm. Huh. And, and the song was called, When I Feel His Love, and I knew that was right, and writing the words that day that I was done that day with the words, and I called them, and I said I got the words done, I want to get approval or not before I leave.

And so she said, well, play it for us. And I said, well, well, she approved the title, but then she said, play it for us. I said, well I haven't read the music, these are just the words, you remember I just saw you yesterday? And so, Barna Parkin, she was really nice, but she read the words to them and she said we thoroughly approve, just go ahead with the music, it's just what we want and it's going to be more than this one satellite broadcast, which they did it two times.

The next day I thought, I still have a day before I leave, I'm going to try to write the music. And so I got that done, and I called her, she said, we're still here, play it for us and sing it. I said, I can't, how can I play the music, turn the pages, and sing, which I don't sing that well. And you'll get a bad impression of it.

I said, I'll come in when I get back from my speaking trip. She said, Sister Perry, do it right now, please. We don't care. We can overlook all that. Wow. And this was just the second day before I left, and it was a crazy thing. They were trying to get a microphone and play the, play the music and sing it for them, and I did not do very well.

But when I got done, said, we can tell enough, it is the song we needed. So you just go on your trip and be, you're done. [00:50:00] Oh my goodness. And she said, when you come back, bring your daughter in law and her friend in, and to sing it like they were going to, so we can really hear it. Oh my goodness. So they did it on that satellite and the next one.

Huh. And it was a two day thing with the extra help you get when it's the church asking. Yeah. When the Lord's in charge. Yeah. Yeah, it was wonderful. Well, how cool is that? I didn't even know you'd tell us that story. So we're gonna, we get to, we, it's a twofer. We're gonna listen to I Walk by Faith and then that beautiful song When I Feel His Love.

So thank you for sharing that.

Segment 6

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[00:55:00]

We're going to end our entire soundtrack of Doctrine and Covenants section 18 with verses 22 through 25. Here's what they say. And as many as repent and are baptized in my name, which is Jesus Christ, and endure to the end, the same shall be saved. Highlight, endure to the end. Behold, Jesus Christ is the name which is given of the Father, and there is none other name given whereby man can be saved.

Highlight Jesus Christ. Wherefore, all men must take upon them the name which is given of the Father. For in that name shall they be called at the last day. And this just immediately led me to the song, I'm trying to be like Jesus. Sister Kapp Perry wrote that. And so I asked her to tell us. The history behind the song, I'm trying to be like Jesus.

And here's what she said. Yes. And this time it was a stake primary leader was, was in charge of a meeting based, based on teaching the children about kindness. And she said, could you write us a little theme song so we could, we could play it right before we were going to have that talked about. And I said, yeah, I'd love to try.

And so I thought, who exemplified kindness? Jesus. And I thought it has to be about him. And I don't know, they've kind of adopted it down the road now for the Uh, young single adults. Oh, wow. You know, the, the big convention they have mm-hmm . They've had, they've had a sung there nearby the whole congregation the last two years.

But this one, I don't know. Some, some people, when you write a song, they find things to criticize it. Mm-hmm . I don't know how they found anything in those words to criticize, but they published them. [01:00:00] And I think it was maybe someone who was leaving the church. And so, Professor Michael Hicks from BYU faculty member, he wrote a letter back about it.

A rebuttal. A rebuttal. , he restored my faith in that song. Mm-hmm . 'cause I felt like I had written it in, in just the right way. The, the lyrics. Wow. Well, and it's a song about Jesus I, that that's what I think is so amazing. How could anyone say anything negative about trying to be like Jesus? We could use a lot more of that in the world we live in.

Yeah. And this brother who wrote, said, uh, trying is the main, is the main word. Yeah. We're not saying we're all perfect. No. But we certainly should be trying. Mm hmm. I purposely put into the lyrics that we're trying, because we all feel like we fall short, but if we keep trying, I don't know, it's just so important that we not get led astray or let down our efforts to be like Jesus.

Mm hmm. And I just hope the song conveys that. So I have a personal question for you, Sister Perry. What advice would you give to someone who is struggling in their faith? Quit it. Quit struggling. I don't know. I didn't think about that. That's a great answer. Why would you say quit it? Well, it's It's just so much better to be strong in your faith and do the things that make you strong.

I would say singing the right kind of music is one of the greatest things you can do. Church music that's been approved. And all these new hymns that we're going to have, that we love, that were being introduced, you know, just a few at a time. That's it. Uh, our, our bishop usually is really stressing that we don't sing halfheartedly.

We sing these songs like we really mean it. Yeah, I like that. And boy, if you, if you do, and music can go a lot, a long way toward bringing you back and of all of the, the. Letters people have written to me, that's what they say. I was in this situation and I heard this song and it just turned things around for me.

And in all kinds of different situations that they mentioned. I don't know, I haven't thought about that question much, but For me, it's music that makes me feel the Spirit. Yeah. Other people's music. All the new ones are wonderful. Yeah. I'm with you. I think music absolutely helps me feel the Spirit. And more so recently, I don't know what's going on in my life, but it seems like every time I sing or I hear a song sung in church, I get so weepy.

And one of the songs that I think is so beautiful, and it connects to these verses of Scripture, is it takes us right back to Jesus. And being like Jesus. I think if we as a congregation could sing, I'm trying to be like Jesus, not half heartedly, like your bishop said, with all of our gusto, I think we might see a major change.

amongst his children if we really could be like Jesus. So we are going to be privileged to listen to the song I'm Trying to Be Like Jesus. And as you hear these lyrics, wow, I hope they resonate with you. And I hope all of us have a goal to be more like Jesus Christ, especially with it this year, 2025.

Make this our year to walk by faith and to be like our Savior. And Janice, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. This has been such a treat for me. Well, it's been a little bit of a stress for me, but it's over. You're done. You can breathe now. You haven't been 86 yet. You'll know. You'll find out.

I will remember this when I'm 80. I hope I lived to 86, so thanks for thinking I might. That's awesome. Well, I sure love you. Thank you for all the good you've done for us. Thank you too, Tammy.[01:05:00]

Well, was I right or was I right? I mean, that was such a treat. I loved being with her. She was so wonderful and just as lovely as you could imagine in person. And I felt the spirit the whole time. I don't even know if there's one eternal truth other than the fact that Wow. It's amazing what God can do. I mean, her stories were so wonderful and that he has something for all of us to do to help build the kingdom.

And she never imagined that it would be her with music and look what she's done for all of us. So thank you, Sister Janice Kapp Perry. What a treasure. I'd love to know what your takeaways were. And by that, I mean, what eternal truth did you learn? What's something that you gained by listening to this episode?

You can join our Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you've learned. You can even ask questions if you want, and I'll try to answer them. Maybe you have a question about interviewing her, but I will not tell you where she lives. I've promised I'd keep that private. And then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we're going to post a question, and I'm going to ask you.

What's your favorite Janice Kapp Perry song, comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion.

So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today are incredible. Fabulous study group participant was sister Janice Kapp Perry, and you can find more information about her at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that you really are God's favorite.