The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] There is a line in the hymn praised to the man that came to mind as I was preparing for this episode. Here's the line. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven. Now the word sacrifice is defined as the act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else that's more important or worthy.

Well, in our study of Doctrine and Covenants, sections 37 through 40, the saints were asked to sacrifice. They indeed were asked to give up something that was very valuable and I can't even imagine the amount of faith needed to trust that the something else really would be more worthy. So what did they give up and what did they receive, and was it really worth it?

We're gonna answer these questions and you can decide for yourself if sacrifice brought forth the blessings of heaven for these early saints and pioneers. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy Lac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study. Just like my longtime listening friend, Becky Jorgenson from South Jordan, Utah. Hi, Becky. Now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different and this week is different.

I'm so excited. I've been looking forward to this. Oh my gosh. Okay, here's who we have. This is so fun. We have Rocío Gómez and Marcia Nimer. Hi ladies. Hello. Ah, okay. Tell the audience how do you two know each other? Well, we are sisters, so we've known each other all our lives. Yes, I'm the middle one and Rocío's the oldest.

Love it. Mm-hmm. Did you guys ever fight growing up? All the time.

Oh, it makes me happy. But now we're the best friends. We are the best of friends. Yes, we are. And we are both from Mexico. What part? Sonora. So it's right below Arizona. Okay. And, uh, yeah, that's where we come from. We live there until we were adults and, and then we immigrated to the United States. But yeah, we are sisters and we love each other.

My mom was very adamant that we had to be the best of friends and we hated it. But now we are super, super grateful to her for, um, giving us this gift of this not only sisterhood, but also. That like friendship that we have. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That makes my heart so happy. Now here's how I met these two women.

They are okay. You're, I'm, I don't even know if I can put into words how fun they are. They are the happiest, most fun women. And I have met them twice. So I met you guys last year at some event. You came up to me and you were so kind, and you were like, we listened to your podcast. And, and it was so fun. I just fell in love with you then.

But then I met you again at another event, and at the second time I met you, the spirit was like, they have to be on the podcast. And so, do you remember I just said, you at the event gimme your name and phone number, and you both were like, what? What? We just wanted a picture. Just wanted a picture with Tabby.

And she's like, give me your, your name and phone number. And we were like, okay, I'm gonna put their phone number wrong. Don't do that. Ah, nope. Heavenly Father had a bigger plan, and I, I just think this is gonna be so cool. Thank you. Okay. Can I say this because he, this can be on the record, or off the record, doesn't matter, but I just have to say it.

I even wrote it down because I'm like, I wanna check every point. So, um, I've been listening to this podcast ever since the first episode, the first, uh, season, everything. And then, um, of course you became my friend, but you didn't know it. Mm-hmm. And then I, I remember thinking, oh, how fortunate her bless their, her friends that studied with her, you know, uh, the Bible study and the Hebrew and all that, and they get to be on the podcast, and I'm like, oh, that's so cool.

And then as you became more and more, my friend, as I listened to you, I'm like, oh, I'm the one friend that. Never gonna be on the podcast, but it's okay. I might not even meet her ever, but that's okay. I know her through this podcast, right? And then later Rocíolast year, Rocío invited me to the women's conference, but I'm like, oh shit, I can't go.

We were in the middle of construction and then she sent a picture from the Women's Conference, BYU Women's conference with you. And I was like, no way. And she like, she's gonna give you a shout out and all that. And then I'm like, well, maybe next year I'll meet her. And, and the BYU women's conference, if [00:05:00] she's a presenter.

And then you started saying, in your podcast, I'm gonna be part of the Magnify event. And we were planning to go to the Magnify event, and I'm like, oh, where? And then you're like, Texas and San George, Utah. But you didn't say Salt Lake. And I'm like, oh darn. And I'm like, okay, that's okay. But then we went to the Salt Lake, to the Magnify event.

There you were. So after, um, you, you did your presentation and all that, and then Rosie's like, Tammy's right there. Let's go ask for a picture. And we're like, ah. So I'm like, oh, I met her. Oh, sorry, I met her finally. And then I'm like, can you. Can we take a picture with you and you're like, you need to be on the podcast.

And we're like, what? And then they're like, ah, she's gonna forget about us. The our information is gonna get lost in the phone. And, uh, eh, she might call us maybe a couple years, three months later, here we are. Mm-hmm. And you know what? That's how I know I'm God's favorite because I wanted to be here and I wanted to meet you.

And he made it possible. Oh my goodness. God is so good. Yes. I love that story. That's how we met. This is, yes. So happy. Okay. I hope everyone's smiling as big as we are because I think we're gonna be smiling this entire episode. This is so fun. This is so fun. Especially these, so these sections are ha like.

It's a big deal and it's about sacrifice. And I don't know anything about these women. Let me just say that God knows everything about them. I do not. So I don't know how they're going to weave this storyline into their own lives, but I cannot wait. So we are gonna have so much fun with these sections. So if you wanna know what my guests look like, 'cause you all know I do, I have to know what the people look like.

Go check out their bios in our show notes, which are found at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday so you can see their pictures, read their bios, come back, and then listen to us as we dig into doctrine and covenants. Sections 37 through 40. Okay, ladies, right out of the gate, what did the Holy Ghost teach you?

As you read these sections, we'll start with you, Rocío, go. Okay. Well, the most important thing I learned this week is a lesson Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have wanted me to learn over and over again throughout all my life. And that is just how much they love me, how deeply they want me to trust them, and that they've got me.

They're aware of me. They're actively involved in my life, and I, I don't know, I, I am as a good human, I forget and I have to relearn it and learn it and learn it again. And Dr. In covenants 38, there were so many scriptures that I highlighted that I know that we will talk more about them later on, but there's a couple that stood out to me versus 21 and 22.

And I'll read a, uh, like a sentence of both verses. I will be your king and watch over you and hear my voice and follow me. You shall be free. That's how I read it. Right? And I love this image of him watching over me. He see these so powerful God creator of the universe and everything, and he's watching over me.

And I just think of me watching over my children, right? And, and it's just such a loving image to me. He, he knows me, he sees my pains, my challenges, and I am precious to him. And it, and also the second part reminds me so much of the invitation that President Nelson has been, um, giving us of. Trying to stretch ourselves to, to, to be better at receiving revelation, to be able to hear him better.

And so in 22, we have Jesus inviting us to do so. Hear my voice, he says, and follow me, and you shall be free. And so he wants us to do that because he knows that when we do that, we can be blessed, we can be happier. And I know that that freedom that he talks about, it's not just, you know, being a slave in a country or something.

It's just freedom of everything that can bound us. Freedom from, from fear, from doubt, from resentment, from anything that is holding me back from progressing or feeling true. Joy. Oh, Rocío. Thank you so much. I am, I have tears in my, like I'm about to cry. I needed that reminder, especially when you read in verse 21 that I will be your king and watch over you.

Thank you. I needed that reminder that he's watching over me. 'cause there's something I have to do later that I'm so nervous about and I just need to be reminded that he sees me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Tell me about what did you notice, Marcia, in section 37, you know, when the lawyer is [00:10:00] given the, the saints, the commandment to move to Ohio and um.

The very last verse, verse four says, behold here is wisdom and let every man choose for himself. Mm-hmm. And, um, that just made me, made me feel like every time the Lord asked us to do something or to follow him, or to hear him, it's wisdom, right? He's giving us, he's giving us this, um, choice. And like, Hey, here, this is what you need to do.

This is what I'm asking you to do. Do it and everything will go well. But you get to choose right. Let every man choose for himself. I love that he's not gonna force us to do it. He will always respect our agency, our agency that we fought for. So much when we were back in heaven with, before coming to Earth.

Right? Yeah. And he's always gonna respect that no matter if we ended up choosing different, he's gonna still be there, still watch over us and all that. But he is always, um, wanting us to choose him to choose what he's offering us because he knows that that is gonna lead us to greater happiness and peace and all that.

And saying we can apply that to parenting. Like right When we ask our kids to, yeah, please choose this, um, do this what I'm telling you. I already went through this and I know what it is. And sometimes they do, sometimes they're like, no teenagers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I have my agency. You can't make me. No, no. We, and we can't.

And they, and, but still, we're there. For if they make a wrong choice, we're gonna be there loving them. Just like heavenly Father and Jesus are there when we make wrong choices, and then we face our, uh, consequences. Right? So that's what the Spirit taught me, just right at the beginning of the sections in 37.

Oh my goodness. Marcia, thank you for reminding us of that. And when you said at the, when you first started out and you said it, I wrote it in my scriptures. What I'm asking you to do is wise. I, I've never considered that and got context of verse four. I circled the word here is I circled those words. Here is wisdom.

And I wrote that what I'm asking you to do is wise. You're right. Like he's thought it through. He's God, he's king. He knows all. And you're right. And then he is like, and you have your agency, so. I'm gonna let you choose, but just remember that I already told you. I already told you, and I'm not gonna ask you to do anything that isn't good for you, even though it's requiring a huge sacrifice.

So, wow, thank you. You two, you perfectly executed that assignment to tell me what the Holy Ghost taught you, because I think that's probably my favorite is whenever people share what the Holy Ghost taught them, it teaches me. So I felt like I was taught by you from the Holy Ghost. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay, so then in the next segment we're gonna dive into this, this idea of sacrifice, bringing forth the blessings of heaven. That seems to be the theme for today's lesson. And so I want you, those of you listening to think about it, does it really bring forth the blessings of heaven or has it done that in your own life?

So we're gonna dig into that discussion in the next segment.

Segment 2

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Alright, you two. So here's what I wanna know. This idea sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven. Before we even get into the sacrifice that's asked of the saints, I asked you two to think, have you ever had to sacrifice something for something better? Yes. Rossio, go. Okay. Okay. Yes. I'll start. We, Martin and I, my, our family, by the way, we have another sister shout out for, to Mar Martha.

My, um, we are converts to the church. Um, oh wow. We were baptized when I was 12 and Marcia was 10, almost 10. Mm-hmm. Almost 10 in Sonora again, it's a northern state of Mexico. Right around that time I learned about America, I dunno if you've heard it of it, but it was a church owned boarding high school in Mexico City.

Today it serves as Mexico's missionary training center in Mexico City. Anyway. Oh, wow. I was blessed with the opportunity to attend Beto and when I arrived, seriously, it was the most beautiful place I've ever seen in my life. So beautiful. And it was there that I learned that the church also had other schools, other church schools in the United States.

So that planted a desire in my heart. I started praying every single day for [00:15:00] three years that I may have that opportunity to study at another, uh, at another church school. Mm-hmm. During my third and final year at Ven Medic, my answers, my prayer were answered in a manner that I didn't think of because it was three weeks before we had to leave, before I was done, and when, well, I thought this prayer had not been answered right, because I was already planning to go to the university in my hometown.

And, but it was three weeks before we left, uh, these people from Rick's College came and gave us the opportunity to go to Rick's College with a full scholarship. We just had to pass the exam to, uh, enter a university in the United States. I was fortunate enough to have some missionaries guide me and teach me and coach me to take that exam.

And I took it and I passed it. I miraculously passed it and five of us students came to Rick's College with a full scholarship, which was awesome. It was my Wow. True. Right? Yeah. However, it was also a leap of faith because I had never stepped, you know, foot in the United States. I had never studied in a, an English speaking school, and I had no family here.

Hmm. So, leaving my home, my friends, my, my family, my country was one of the hardest things I had ever done at that time. And so my mom especially struggled with the idea of me being. So far away. Oh, I bet. Didn't even know where Rexburg was, where I was. Most of us don't, so you're okay. And so, and, and after being gone for three years at a board, these boarding school, you know, and we didn't know at the time, but really that was the on last time that I was gonna leave with them before I left to that boarding school, because then I did come and then I got married and I never went back.

Mm-hmm. But adjusting to life in the US was challenging. It was again, super fun to be here. But the language barrier was overwhelming. My head lit, literally ate for about a month. Oh wow. Trying to learn English and like listen to English and try to speak English. Anyway. But my desire, you know, of continuing my education in a church school was like greater.

So we kept going and, uh, I, looking back now, I see the Lord was guiding every step of the way. It was not just for my benefit, it was also for the benefit of my family. Because little by little trickled in my sister started coming, and then my mom eventually came here to, to learn English and eventually got married and found happiness.

Oh, sweet. It was very, um, it was beautiful to see. It was, it was a sacrifice that turned out to be one of the greatest, um, blessings in my life. And it, it in that pattern repeated over and over in my life. Mm-hmm. Oh, Rocío, thank you for sharing that. I had no idea. I did not know if you were con a converts at all when I met you.

God is again so good. To have you both on this specific episode that is all about sacrificing. This is so cool. So thank you for sharing your story. Okay, Marcia, go. Okay. We went through a few stories like, ah, what can I say? Whatever, but we landed on this one. Um, so when my husband and I were just married, he, uh, started applying for PA school, physician assistant school.

So he wanted to, uh, get into this program, specific program that will give him, um. A dual master's degree in three years. PAA school is usually two years. Uh, but this program was a dual degree, a dual master's in three years. So one of the few schools that offered that program is in, um, Pennsylvania. So we were, we got married, we moved to Colorado to live with my in-laws, and I give them a shout out.

My mother-in-law and my father-in-law, they listened to the podcast. Michel and Brian, er, love him. They had us live there in, in their basement for that first year while we were applying and got accepted and all that. So eventually he got [00:20:00] into the school and then we had to move all the way to Pennsylvania.

Never been there before. Um, far away from family friends. When we got there, it was. It was very challenging because we were, well, I'm gonna say it for, from my perspective, I was a newlywed new wife. 'cause we had been married for just a year. Mm-hmm. I was new homemaker because I lived in the basement of my in-laws, so I didn't have to manage a house or anything.

I didn't know what I was doing. And then I was a new mom 'cause I was three weeks postpartum and it was hard, yes. To move away from family and all that. When you're in this new chapter, new everything, and now we're going to this place, which I like. I didn't know anybody. The east coast is very different.

Mm-hmm. Than over here in the west. I think I went through a little depression because all those nuns are kind of blurry. I remember just being in my pajamas and sleeping with my baby all the time and barely doing the minimum. Uh, my husband was in school day and afternoon because he was doing a double degree.

Anyways. Fast forward a couple years, I had my second baby and that last year, for the last six months of his schooling, he had to do some rotations. So we went to Colorado. We, we stayed there for three months doing some, a couple rotations. Then we came to Utah, then we went to La Paz, Mexico. My dad lives there and for one month, and then we went to Ermo Sonora, where we are from for the last month, and our kids were two years old and three months old when we started all that.

Wow. So it was, it was kind of hard, but we knew that, um, at the end, the result, right, of having studied and mm-hmm. Having a little paper that would enable him to have a great job, um, that he still has. Like I said, it was hard going through it, but I don't know. We felt supported and protected by the Lord all the time, and he was there.

Anyways, that's the story. Oh, thank you for sharing that. Here's what I love about what both of you shared is your stories. Throughout your stories weaves this idea that you're being watched over and here is wisdom. Like you don't know how it's gonna turn out. You're just trusting that you're being guided by the Holy Spirit that heavenly Father is telling you, and he's over you.

He's in charge, and that is what is so cool. Anyone listening right now? Just sit with that for a minute and know that you are being watched over and what you're being asked to do. There is wisdom in that, and I kind of think that's all the early Saints had to go on. That's why the Lord says it to him in these verses of scripture, like I'm watching over you, and there is wisdom.

Again, you have your agency, you can do what you want with this. But let's go to section 37 and we're just gonna quickly mark a couple of things where the Lord's like here is wisdom. So first of all, the question is where were the saints when they first got this revelation? Go to the section heading of section 37.

This revelation is given to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon. Now circle where they're living at this time. Right there it says near Fayette, New York. Okay, so all the saints, they're in New York. The church is only eight months old. It was just organized back in April. We're in December right now. So we have this new church, they're in New York, so that's the where, where are they supposed to go now?

What are they supposed to do? In the section heading, it says, herein is given the first commandment concerning a gathering circle. Gathering right there. That's the what? So the Lord is saying, I know you're in New York, but what I need you to do is gather, and now where are they going to gather? Verse three and Rocío, will you read verse three for us?

Yes. It says, and again, a commandment I given to the church that it is expedient in me that they should assemble together at the Ohio against the time that my servant Oliver Cadery shall return unto them. Thank you. Circle Ohio. They have to move from New York to Ohio. Now Ohio is gonna be on the outskirts of kind of America like it's not.

A lot of people are living there. Everyone's over on, like you said, the East coast. Very different than what it's going to be like for them in Ohio. And what's interesting about this is, so now we have where they're living. What they're supposed to do now, where they're supposed to go. And the why? The why is really fascinating to me.

In verse three, at the beginning it says, [00:25:00] and again, a commandment I give unto the church Circle commandment. So the Lord's saying, I'm commanding you to do this. So now you kind of understand why he's saying. And here is wisdom, by the way. Like, I've thought this through. I know exactly what you're going to do in Ohio.

You can't even imagine how glorious Ohio is going to be. You just have to trust me. But the Saints were like, but we live in New York and we own land in New York, and we own houses in New York and our families here. You're asking like, we're gonna leave all of this for this church that just started eight months ago.

That's crazy. So in the next segment, we're gonna find out how some of the saints felt about this move. We'll do that next.

Segment 3

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Let's go into section 38 of the Doctrine and Covenants in section 38. I want you to highlight verses 18 and 19 and then verse 32. We're gonna read these verses. So let's start with verses 18 and 19. And Marcia, will you read 18 and 19 for us? Yes. I hold forth amain to give unto you greater reaches even a land of promise, a land flowing with milk and honey upon which there shall be no curse when the Lord cometh.

And I will give it unto you for the land of your inheritance if you seek it with all your hearts. Thank you. So the Lord is trying to ease their concerns. Like I know what I'm asking is big, but look what it will be a land flowing with milk and honey. We've got some Old Testament wording right there, but he's assuring them like, I promise it'll be so great.

Now skip ahead a little bit. I'm just going to, you know, spoiler alert, they're going to actually build a temple, but they don't know that and they don't know how amazing the temple will be. So again, the Lord's just prepping them a little bit like this is wisdom. Please do this. I promise it will be really great.

And then look at verse 32 in the back of your mind, knowing they're gonna build a temple, but he hasn't said that yet. Rocío, will you read verse 32? Yes. It says Where for? For these? Cause I gave unto you the commandment that you should go to the Ohio, and there I will give unto you my law, and there you shall be endowed with power from on high.

Ooh. Okay. Look at that verse right there. What's temple wording in that verse? End doubt with power from on high. Oh, underline that. Yeah. Actually I mark these verses and I tell me why. Put on the side temple. Yes, you're totally right. Yeah. He's prepping them like they will be INow with power from on high.

Yeah, because they're going to get a temple next week. We'll talk about my law. Circle that just so you kinda kind of have it fresh in your memory. We really get to dive into that with Sharon, which will be so fun. We won't talk about it today. Okay, so knowing all of this, here's what you wanna know, this call to gather came as an absolute shock.

So it's the church's third conference. It's held in the Witmer's home, and it's kind of in the New York. If you look when this revelation's given the date is January 2nd, 1831. And the Saints were very troubled about this because like I said, they owned a lot of land and houses, and many of them would actually probably lose money by selling their land and their houses because it wasn't worth a ton at the time.

So this wasn't a good financial decision for any member of the church. And so section 38 came as an answer to some of the concerns that The Saints had. It sort of eased their mind. But before we really dive into Section 38, I wanted to give you some perspectives of how two people felt about this call together.

So we're gonna start with Rocío and she's gonna tell us a story about a woman named Phoebe Carter. And then Marcia is gonna tell us about the Marsh family. So go ahead, Rocío. All right. Well, Phoebe Carter was one of the early saints who joined the church in 1830. At the time, she was 27 years old. She was still single and living at home with her parents.

Unlike her, her parents, they, they did not join the church. So when the prophet gave the revelation to gather with the saint Inland Ohio and Phoebe felt compelled to go, her parents were deeply upset and. I would be too, like if I didn't have a testimony, I didn't understand what's going on, I would be super worried about my daughter joining these cults.

Right. Absolutely. So I love her words though, and I do want to read a little quote from her of what she said. She later described the heartbreaking moment of leaving home. She said, my friends marveled. I'm at my course, as did I. I love that. She's surprised that she was. But something within impelled me on my mother's grief at my leaving home was almost more than I could bear.

And had it not been for this spirit within, [00:30:00] I should have Fal her at the last. And my mother told me she would rather see me buried than going thus alone into their heartless. World, Phoebe. She said, impressively, would you come back to me if you find Mormonism and false? I answered, yes, mother, I will. And this answer well relieved her mother a little bit, but still it was so hard for them to part that.

Um, Phoebe could not say goodbye in person. She had to write her goodbyes in letter form, left her in her table, she says, and then run out. Got into the carriage and left. She could not do it in person. She says. Thus, I left my beloved home of my childhood to link my life with the saints of God. And I find that, oh my gosh.

So incredibly inspiring. Absolutely. Yes. She was so courageous to do this. Following the prophet and the witness she had from the spirit, despite the sorrows of leaving home, the doubt of her friends, her parents, the pressure to, she knew it was right. She acted on that knowledge. She, she did it. Wow. Thank you for sharing her story.

That is so powerful. I like how she even says, even I was surprised. Yeah. Yes. How many times does that happen to us when we're asked to do difficult things and we have for whatever reason, the fortitude to do it, and we're like, wow, that even surprised me. Yeah. Great story. But that's what happens when we act upon the promptings, right?

Yes. I think you're absolutely right. And going back to this idea of like, here is wisdom. We're being watched over. I can't, I can't explain it. I can only imagine the conversation she must have had with her mother. Like, mom, I don't know how to explain this to you. Yes. And, uh, well, let me just tell you really quick.

She, uh, was truly blessed. It, it, this story reminds me a little bit of the scripture in Matthew 1929, where it's the Lord says, and everyone that has forsaken houses or brethren or sister or father or mother or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred volt and shall inherit everlasting life.

And she truly was, um, because in Kirtland she met an incredible, incredible young man. What I read was that after a lengthy courtship of two and a half months mm-hmm. I married and she did, went on to have nine children and accompanied her husband and several missions and also witnessed her husband baptized her parents later on.

So that was really, really cool. Now that story. It is so cool. So she marries Wilfred Woodruff. How about that? Ah, okay. Rocío, give us that scripture reference again in Matthew. Yeah, I wanna put that next to section 37. It's Matthew 1929. Thank you. Oh, what a good story. Boy, there's wisdom. Huh? She got, and she's 27 and single.

She was old. Yeah. Wow. For that day and time. She must have been absolute destitution. That's what I told her when we were talking about it. It was like, she probably was like an old ma already. Oh. Because she was 27 and that she didn't, she wasn't married. I mean, I married at 27 and I'm like, do I have two?

I'm not ready. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. No, what a great story. Phoebe Carter, we love you. Phoebe Carter Woodruff. Oh, that's a good story. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Marcia, tell us about the Marsh family. Okay, this story is about Elizabeth and Thomas Marsh. They were living in Boston before, and then for some reason I, well I read a little bit, but Thomas Marsh was, he thought there was going to be a church that will rise, that had all the, the same pattern as Christ Church and all that.

So he was looking for that. So he heard about this church. He went to New York and he got hold of the first 16 pages of the Book of Mormon. He read him, he felt it was true. He showed him to his wife and they both say like, yeah, this sounds right. Mm-hmm. So they went back to Boston, they packed everything and they moved to New York to be closer to Joseph, uh, Smith and the church.

And, um, just a few months later. Is when this call to go to Ohio came just a few months later after they just moved from Boston to New York. Now I Googled it and from Boston to New York, it's about 215 miles. And I'm like, what? What? They just packed everything, moved that distance and now they're moving again.[00:35:00]

And now I Google this too from Boston from New York to Ohio is about 150 miles walking. So double of what? They already moved. They were going to move, but they were just willing to do it. Now says that Elizabeth was not baptized right away, but after she, she had a son in Palmyra and all that, she asked the Lord for a witness that the gospel was true, and she received it, says a short time later she received that testimony.

And then after that she was, uh, unwilling to deny what she knew was true and then she was willing to work and help to build Zion. Right? And she says that there was a great change in her body and in her mind I'm like, that must have been a great testimony, a great revelation for her to just like, okay, let's do it.

It's like, oh my gosh, another move. And then you, the same with Thomas. Thomas was like, the Lord called us to do this, so we're gonna do it. And they didn't know. Much of like what else was in the plan, right? They just like the Lord just say, move to Ohio. So we're gonna move to Ohio. We don't know if it's gonna be permanent or temporary, but we are gonna just go and do what the Lord has asked us to do.

And they did. And after that we know that the saints kept moving. It wasn't the last, uh, the happily ever after we're gonna live here, right? Mm-hmm. Forever. So, but they were willing to do that because they received that revelation. The Lord asked of them to move. Now I started thinking, 'cause we as a family, we just moved five months ago.

Um, we moved. From Harriman to Riverton. It's like five minutes, these things. Yeah. Seven of you hit the two red lights. But I'm like, it's been five months, I'm not ready for another move. And this was a short one. We were like, we didn't even have to pack like a everything and move. We just were grabbing things in our cars and moving them to the new house.

I can't imagine just moving that far away. And then a few months later we're like, oh, nevermind. Stop unpacking. You're, you're gonna go farther away. And, um, I don't know. It's you. I thought I will have to receive a very clear revelation. If the Lord wants me to move again. Mm. Mm-hmm. So we built this house and it took us three years to build it, and we've been waiting to move.

Right. And, uh, if the Lord will say like, you know what? You need to move to Texas or to Arizona, or whatever, I will need a very clear instruction. I don't know if it's just like an impression, like, oh, maybe that's the right thing to do. And I'm guessing, well, I don't know. I'm just guessing that they had to have like, yes, this is what you should do.

All right. And we'll go. Mm-hmm. So, because I, I'm thinking about, you know, if the prophet at General Conference said to us, okay, everybody pack up, we're moving to Missouri. I mean, we always joke about that. I'm from Missouri, so we used to always say everyone's gonna move to Missouri. I don't think that's really gonna happen.

I don't know that we're all gonna be asked to, you know, move to Missouri. But I was thinking as you were talking, what are, when you think about this in our church, have there been times when we've been asked to do things by our prophet and apostles that have been hard and we kind of have to go, wait, is there wisdom in this?

I think about how many times our prophet apostles ask us to do things and we question their direction, we question their authority. And I can imagine the early Saints doing this questioning Joseph Smith, like, really? And you just go back to how you both started us out. Like he's watching over us and yes, here is wisdom, but I love in the Marsh's experience, they had to come to their own knowledge.

I mean, both of your stories, these people had to come to their own assurance that yes, this is exactly what we're supposed to be doing. And I like how the story that you just told Marcia that in, it's in the book Saints chapter 11, and there's a letter that this woman's brother writes. We read that last line, read those two lines that he said to her in the letter about moving.

It says, we know nothing of what we are to do. Save it, be revealed to us. Uh, he explained this to his sister, but this we know a city will be built in the promised Land. [00:40:00] Thank you. And I just think that faith is what really got so many of them to do the hard thing. So let's do this. In the next segment, in section 38, we're gonna mark three verses that have a phrase that might hopefully ease concerns, not just for the saints who are at being asked to gather, but maybe for us as Latter Day Saints when we're asked to do things that are difficult.

The Lord has some pretty great wisdom for us. We're gonna find out what that is in the next segment.

Segment 4

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Let's go to Doctrine and Covenant section 38, and we're just gonna look at the first four verses. Oh, these are good. Okay. We'll each take a turn reading and we'll start with Marcia and then Rocío, and then me. Okay. Thus, save the Lord your God, even Jesus Christ. The great I am. Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end, the same, which looked upon the white expanse of eternity and all the terrific hosts of heaven before the world was made the same, which knoweth all things for all things are present before my eyes.

I am the same, which spa and the world was made and all things came by me. I am the same, which have taken the Zion of Enoch into my own bosom and barely. I say even as many as have believed in my name, for I am Christ and in my own name, by the virtue of the blood, which I have spilled, have I pleaded before the father for them.

Thank you. Okay, let's go to verse two, three, and four and highlight when he says the same. I am the same. I am the same. And I wanted to know, knowing that God is saying like He starts at the very beginning saying, I'm the great I am. And we got to talk about that with Tyler and Abe, which was so awesome, but this idea which he is, he can cause things to be.

He is the great I am. He is everything. And then he wants us to know I'm the same. Who did this? I'm the same. I'm the same. How do you think this could ease the minds of the Saints knowing he's the same? I love these verses because the Lord wants the saints to understand who he is, right? Mm-hmm. He's divine character.

I am the same God that I was with Moses, with, uh, Abraham, with Noah, with like all these other prophets. I've done all these creations and I also know all things, all things are present before his eyes. Great. He, he, they needed that reassurance so they can, could remember that because they, these saints didn't have the doctrine and cos right, they right the Book of Mormon.

Some of them, they had the Bible and they could relate to that. They could remember that God that has been there for all of his people. He has demonstrated again and again in the scriptures that he fulfills his promises and that, uh, these little band of saints could trust that he would take care of them as well.

Rocío, you are 100% right. I had this conversation with my friend Jenny Reer. We talked about this, so we, Jenny Reer and I, doctor Jenny Reer, I should say, and I are doing a series this year called Unnamed Women of the Doctrine in Covenants because she's a church historian, and so she and I got to talk about two cute little sisters.

You guys will love it because they're sisters and they were 13 and 15 when they saved the doctrine in covenants. And I love it because Jenny brought up this idea that. And it's exactly what you said, Rocío, where when the Lord says, I am the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, I'm the God who helped Moses crop part the Red Sea.

He uses those examples because they're so big and so major that he's trying to help us remember if I could do that for them, think of what I can do for you. Little you. You have your own little Red Sea you're trying to part right now and then, and if I could part the Big Red Sea, you better believe I'm gonna be able to part your Red Sea.

And so you're probably so overwhelmed that I'm asking you to move, but I am the same God who's done amazing things. I'm not gonna stop with you. I'm just gonna keep on doing amazing things. And then he gives them verse seven, and I'm sure you both have this highlighted. Yes. So good. Marcia read verse seven and tell me why you highlighted it.

Okay. But behold, verily, verily I say unto you that mine eyes are upon you. I am in your midst and ye cannot see me. He is there, he's watching over us all the time. Even sometimes when we can't see his hand in our lives, when he's says, I'm in your midst, then you cannot see me. Sometimes we cannot, sometimes it's hard to see it, but he [00:45:00] never lose the sight of us and what we are doing and what we are going through in our lives.

So that, that's why I highlighted that verse. Oh, perfectly said. Thank you. Rocío, do you wanna add to why you highlighted it? Yes. These verse I, I actually wanted to, to say it as my verse right at the beginning. We're gonna talk about it later. Yes. Hit it. It goes right with the, like Marcia said, uh, with the, I'm watching over you.

Okay. My eyes are upon you. And it reminded me of, uh, president Manson's teaching, uh, that says, the Lord is in the details of our lives. And I have seen the hand of the Lord in my life so many times that testify of these beautiful truth. And for me, recognizing the Lord's miracles and tender mercies that he's had in my life makes me feel seen.

Oh, I think that's, as you were speaking, I went back to verse seven. I underlined, I have an eternal truth color this year, and I told you guys it was my purple highlighter. And that is something that I highlighted when he says, my eyes are upon you. That is a truth. He absolutely sees you. When I end each podcast was saying, you are God's favorite.

I mean, like, it's true. It's absolutely true because he sees you. So for anyone that's listening right now, he sees you listening on your bed, he sees you driving in your car, he sees you running out on or walking out as you're exercising, whatever it is you're doing right now, he sees you. His eyes are upon you.

And I, I just want everyone to just feel that. And we just heard beautiful testimonies from Marcia and Rossio about being seen and he absolutely has seen them in their own lives and he, he sees us and that's what he wants the Saints to know. Again, what I'm asking is so difficult. I understand you have to leave family and everyone and move to Ohio.

It's kind of funny, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but there's a slang term when something's blah. It's called Ohio. No offense to any of my friends living in Ohio. I recently learned that teenagers call something blah or bland. That's right. Ohio. I think that's so funny's. I'm like, that's rude.

We like Ohio. I I love it. It's beautiful and green. But anyway, saying that, I mean just, it's kind of funny 'cause Laura's like, I know I'm asking you to do something really difficult. Yeah. And I see you. I'm in your midst. I've got you. It goes right back to how we started. You two beautifully started out this whole episode reminding of, of this.

So thank you, thank you, thank you. So let's do this then in the next segment, we're not done talking about truths to help us follow his counsel because section 38 has some incredible truths about the savior and having faith in him, and we're gonna talk about those next.

Segment 5

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Let's turn to Doctor into Covenant section 38. We're still in this section and here's what I asked my guests to do. I asked them to study verses one through 33 and to look for truths about the savior that can help give us faith to follow his counsel. So I'm very excited to find out what did you two mark?

So give us the verse and we can go and mark and then tell us why it helped you have faith in him. Okay. So like we said in the, in the last segment, the word, the phrase the same, I'm the same. I'm the same. Um, when I was going through that and when I read like, what does it mean for us and for the saints to know that God is the same?

Yes, we can trust in him. He loves us all the same. He will always fulfill his promises 'cause he's the same. He's always gonna do that. But what came to my mind was that yes, he is the same. He's not equal, right? He's not gonna do everything and give us the same experiences to everybody because we are all different.

That's what came to my mind is like, yes, we, I am the same loving God. I am the same, just God. But just because I'm the same, that doesn't mean that I'm gonna do this the same with you than with Rocío, for example. And I have a story, I don't know if it's okay if I share it. Please do. But Rocío just shared her story of how she came to the United States, and it's totally different than.

How my, how I came to the United States. Oh, I can't wait. So when I came to the US before I came to, he, uh, to the us I have, I had to work and save money to be able to come. I didn't have a full scholarship like Rocío did. So I had to save my money. [00:50:00] So I came to learn the language. 'cause I was, I didn't know English.

I, I knew a little bit, but not enough to, you know, go to school. So I came straight to a school to, to learn English. But because I didn't have any scholarships or anything like that right away, I had to find a job. And, um, it was kinda hard because. I was learning the language, but then I had to work in this place where you people only spoke English.

Right. And then because you're an international student, you are only allowed to work part-time in the school. Mm-hmm. And the jobs at the school were not very well paid, so we had to do the jobs that nobody wants to do. It was cleaning buildings at 4:00 AM in the morning. Sure. Oh yeah. It was like a college job.

Yes. Everybody that was cleaning buildings at four in the morning, it was because they needed to. So, but even then, it wasn't enough to cover, um, all the things that we needed. Sometimes we, and I say we, because later my youngest sister came and then a cousin, and then my mom, um. That we didn't have enough food for the week, for example.

And then this Hispanic family noticed our struggles and then they shared of their food with us. And I mean, we saw the hand of the Lord right there, right? He was taking care of you. And like, I brought you here 'cause you are supposed to be here. It's not the same experience as, as your sister, but you're supposed to be here and I'm gonna take care of you and you are not gonna be hungry.

Someone's gonna take care of you. So after um, my sister came and my mom came and my cousin came, then I became kind of like the caretaker of them. 'cause they didn't know the language. They knew less than me. And I was helping them with their homework. I was, uh, in charge of like finding a place to rent, talking to the landlord, paying the bills, uh, or our basement where we were living flooded.

And they blamed us. And we, we have, we have to go through all that, right? And this, the experience was totally different. But the Lord, I have no doubt that the Lord brought me here for a purpose, for a reason. I don't know. But the experience was different. The challenges were different. So he's the same God he was same, taking care of me, same.

I was under his eye, right, his eye upon upon me. But it was just different experience for everybody. Oh my goodness. Anyways, it's so cool. I love your story because he parted your Red Sea and he parted Rocío's Red Sea, and he just, he's the same, he does wonders and miracles for all of his children and you're absolutely right.

But it's not the, it's not the same for each of us, but he's the same. He's the same God. That was so good. Wow. Thank you for connecting the faith we can have in him because he's the same awesome job. Thank you. Okay, keep going. Cia, what did you mark that has faith in him so we can trust him? Alright, well I love so many verses in section 38.

I'm like, I wanna go through all of them. I know it's like all highlighted that highlights so many verses. I know. Um, first, um, what Marcel already said, right, this, his kindness, letting us know who he is, but then also his mercy, um, his patience with us. Um. He given us hope. So I love after seven when he says, I'm in your midst and you cannot see me.

He says, the day soon come that you shall see me and know that I am. And I love that so much. And I, it's through after my trials, after I have to have faith and trust in God that even though I haven't seen him with my eyes, I have come to know him. Mm-hmm. It's after those trials, after, um, the, the challenge anyway, the in verse nine where it says, Gid up your loins.

I love it. It's like, get ready. It it reminds me. Yes. Get ready to work. Take your vitamins. Oh, I love that. Yep. I love that he says the enemy shall not overcome. And uh, because we know right? This is the last dispensation. The church is not gonna that up, is he's, it's going to continue until he comes. But obviously they don't know that yet.

And, um, he, I love in 14 where he says, I will be merciful unto your weakness. I'm so grateful that [00:55:00] he says that because I feel like I have so many weaknesses. We like everybody, right? We all feel like, yes. So I will be merciful unto your weakness. I love that so much. And again, that fear not, and you are not, the kingdom is yours.

You're not. And I love, he says in 16, I have heard your prayers. Your prayers. I love that so much. I have heard your prayers. Mm-hmm. Not vector of person, so he's just trying to have a See him right? To let us know who he is and that he wants to give us all these things. I wrote next to those verses, because you pointed that out.

I wrote, because you've just taught us. I see you. This is what he's saying to us. From what you shared. I see you. I hear you. Like I heard your prayers. So he's saying, I see you. I hear you. Then. No respect or persons. I believe in you and I love you. Like, mm-hmm. What? Those are such good messages from section 38.

Trying to, again, just trust me here is wisdom. What you're doing is hard. I know you could do it. Any other verses? Keep anything else, Marcia. Um, I noticed that he repeats in verses 24 and 25 says, and let every man uh, esteem his brother as himself. Mm. And then in 25, again and again, I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself.

Why do you think he's doing that? That's what I was going to ask. That's a good question. Well, okay. I, the fact that you asked that, I will tell you. So when he's saying esteem everyone, esteem his brother as himself. He says it twice. I would connect it to verse 32, where we circled my law because the law that they're going to be asked to live is going to be the law of consecration where you'll have to esteem every brother as yourself, otherwise the law isn't gonna work and it's gonna be really hard to live.

And we're gonna dive into that next week. But that's why he's saying that he's prepping them. He's saying Get ready and like you said, get ready to work. Ohio will not be easy and I'm gonna give you a law that's gonna be really hard to live, but it'll be for everyone's benefits. So that is preparatory wording right there.

Great question. And then, then, then you go to verse 27 again, preparatory wording when it says be one and if you are not one, you are not mine. Oh, he's setting it up. It's so good. Okay. Any other verses you marked? Well the temple verses 31 and 32. That. I love it that he's making this, he wants his people to have his power, right?

Yeah. To, uh, build his church and build his, um, his city, his Zion, his church in honor. And they can't do that unless they are endowed with power from high. And that's the only way that they're gonna be able to do it and withstand all the trials and temptations and challenges that they're gonna go through.

So. And in 33. Mm-hmm. Where it said, I will lead them with whatsoever I will and no power shall save my hand. I'll be like, oh, where, where else is he going to live? Going to live?

Wow. Wasn't this it? You mean we're not staying in Ohio? That's so good. Wow. There's some preparatory wording, huh? Right there. Yes. I love that preparatory. And in 35, I love that he does look to the poor and the needy and to their relief, always taking care. Um, he's eyes upon again, the poor and the needy that might need help really getting there.

Right. And so anyway. Oh, well because you brought that up. Let's put a cross reference there. Yes. This is so good. This is more preparatory wording. Mm-hmm. So put doctrine and Covenant section 42. And you're gonna put verses 30 through 33

because when we get there next week, we will read where it specifically says that the whole point of the law of consecration is to take care of the poor and the needy. So, wow, ladies, excellent job. Thank you for doing that. So that's the end of section 38, and now we have section 39 and 40. And here's the interesting thing about these sections, because they're for one man and we're gonna share a story about him because he's someone who didn't really dare to follow the council of the Lord.

And we're gonna find out what the Lord had to say about it. We'll do that next.

Segment 6

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Let's go into doctrine and Covenant section 39. This revelation is given through Joseph Smith to a man by the name of James Koval. Koval. I'm [01:00:00] not sure how to pronounce it, but he's given this revelation in New York about January 5th, 1831. And these are some beautiful verses about this man. So Marcia and Rocío, will you share with us some of the verses that tell us about him in section 39?

Yes. Um, so verses seven to 10, I'll, I'll read it says, and now behold, I say unto you, my servant James. I have looked upon thy works and I know thee. And verily I say unto thee, thine heart is now right before me at this time and behold, I have bestowed great blessings upon thy head. Nevertheless, thou has seen great sorrow for that has rejected me many times because of pride and the cares of the world.

But behold, the days of thy deliverance are come if thou will token to my voice, which save unto thee arise and be baptized and watch away your sins, calling on my name and you shall receive my spirit and a blessing. So great as you never have known. Good verses carries with the theme that he sees us. I love how he says, I've seen you.

I've looked upon, I know the, I know the, I love that when he is like, I know the, and your heart is right. Mm-hmm. With me, before me right now. Right at this time. Yeah. Right now. I like how you set that up right now. Okay. What other verses tell us about him or what he was asked to do. Verses 19 through 21 says, wherefore go forth crying with a loud voice saying The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Crying hosanna. Blessed be the name of the most high God for, uh, go forth baptizing with water. Preparing the way before my face for the time of my coming. For the time is at hand, the day or the hour. Noman knoweth. But he surely shall come. So he was called to go and preach. Mm-hmm. And, um, spread the gospel, right?

Yeah. And I think he was called to, he's, he's told that he's not gonna go to the east, uh, Eastern countries. He's gonna go to Ohio and preach over there and, and help, you know, prepare the way or mm-hmm. Help establish the church over there. Um, that was his calling. Exactly right. So in your doctrine in cabinets where it says Section 39, next of Nut 39, right.

And 40, because these two sections go together. So we have section 39 and 40, because here he is. And we love what the Lord has to say about him. But then we go to 40, which is a very short section and a little bit sad. So let's read this. We'll each take a verse. We'll start with Marcia, then Rocío, then me.

Yeah. Okay. Behold. Barely. I say unto you that the heart of my servant James Coville was, was right before me for he covenanted with me, that he would obey my word, and he received the word with gladness. But straight away, Satan tempted him and the fear of persecution and the cares of the world cost him to reject the word.

Wherefore, he broke my covenant and it remaineth with me to do with him as seen with me. Good. Amen. Boy, that gave me chills. Yeah. Ooh, wow. Okay. Mm-hmm. In this section, section 40, so what we know in the section heading, it says that James rejected the word of the Lord and returned to his former principles and people the Lord gave unto me and Sidney rigged in the following revelation about him.

And I like how he, the Lord is like, I will take care of it. Don't you worry about him. That's what he's saying in that verse. But most importantly he says, straightway Satan tempted him and the fear of persecution and the cares of the world caused him to reject the word. That word fear right there. It plays such an important role in our lives.

I can't believe how devastating it can be. I mean, one of the things we've learned, my daughter has, was experiencing anxiety. And so she, we've gone to a lot of counseling and a lot of therapy with it, and I can remember the counselor saying, well, first and foremost, you don't have anxiety. You are experiencing anxiety, and anxiety is fear.

So what are you afraid of? And we just had to go through. Like it was really helpful to understand that. 'cause he's like, you don't have it. You're just feeling it, but you're really afraid of something. And for her, she was really afraid that I was gonna die anytime I left or anytime she left me. Because her older sister's mom passed away when she was little, when they were little.

So she just assumed that was what happens to little girls. And so that was her fear. And once she started to understand that she can't predict the future and to not give way to her fears, she became more strong. So this word is a very important word in our family because anytime my kids [01:05:00] are nervous about something, I'm like, okay, what are you afraid of though?

What are your fears? And so I wanted to know your perspective when it comes to fear and the role that it plays in our lives as members of God's church. Yes. When I was little, um, and was into my early twenties, I'm embarrassed to admit I was. Afraid of the dark and sleeping alone. I was just very afraid.

We had watched some very, some horror movies and I was always very afraid. And it's very interesting because I thought I had to lay in bed. I, and then lay perfectly still as if, because if there was something there or someone there, they could not like see me or hear me. Right. So I. Could feel like this literal cold in my body, and that froze me in place till I fell asleep.

Of course it wasn't every night, but I remember it very, uh, vividly that coldness and that. Freeze you and just cannot, you cannot move. Eventually, heaven father was very merciful to me and also helped me understand how I could get rid of that fear. Well not get rid of it, but manage it better. Mm-hmm. And that years later, I have learned more about the brain and it has helped me understand the science behind fear.

Our brain, wow. Have two primary parts which influence how we respond to life. And as you know, because you've been to therapy and everything, um, we have the primitive brain or what we call the lower brain. That's where fear resides. It's designed to keep us safe and to react to, to danger. Right. So it's, it's actually good.

Yeah. Yeah. But then we also have the other side of the brain. The other part of the brain, which is, which is the prefrontal cortex or the higher brain where recent and intellect and our spiritual nature. 12. The fear is very hardwired into us. It's powerful and it's automatic. But, um, I've learned that, um, there is another feeling that is even stronger than fear, and it's actually the antidote of fear.

That's what I've learned from psychology and it's love. Oh, it's just interesting. Let me write that down. Love is what can help us override fear. Fear and love are our two most primal emotions. Fear helps us survive. But love enables us to grow and to thrive. And so fear will always be part of our journey.

So these anxieties and fears will always be part of our journey and mortality. But in order for us to thrive and to leave a, you know, fulfilling life, love has to be at the wheel. Mm-hmm. In this drive. And when I say love, I mean the pure love of Christ charity. And because when we choose to act from this love, instead of acting from our fears, which will happen all the time, uh, we will try to, uh, protect ourselves.

Right? That's what fear does. Try to protect ourselves. But when we act, uh, from love, we step, that's when we step into faith. That's when we can feel peace. That's when we can have the fullness of life that heavenly father in Jesus wants. For us, but we must actively with our higher brain, choose to act from love to instead of our peers.

Mm-hmm. So how do you do that? Give me an example. I mean, how did you, able, how are you, this is so fascinating to me and I love it. I've written so many notes in Section 40. How do you choose love? How are you able to make your brain do that and not give into the fears? That is a very good question. Uh, because that's what Jesus, um, helps us understand and is to look unto him in every thought.

And that's, we have the scriptures that we have to read like every day, right? That's what he tells us. Just read my words, just hear me, hear my voice instead. Um, just our thinking, just getting counsel from our fear. Uh, we get counsel from God and that is the way we can. Choose love because as we come to know Jesus Christ in the scriptures, we get to know, as we get to know Jesus Christ, we know how much he loves us and that love, um, helps us choose him because he loves us so much, we want to choose him.

Wow. Well, this now makes so much more sense because we have a prophet president Russell M. Nelson, who's a prophet right now, where we, we are [01:10:00] experiencing at epic proportions, fear and anxiety. Right? We are so afraid and yet. Here he is saying to us before he is even a prophet. This is so cool. In January of 2017, he issues a challenge in this worldwide devotional for young adults, the challenge to study Jesus Christ, to study all the citations about him using the topical guide as their core curriculum.

Then six months later in general conference, he brings this up again and he says that he did it, and I think that's pretty cool. But then a full year later, in January of 2018, a year after he issued the original challenge in an article in the new era. He says this to all of us who aren't quite certain about studying.

Jesus Christ, this promise is so cool. Listen to this, to those of you who feel you don't have time, if you'll make a sacrifice, you'll be well rewarded and very, very grateful for the change of perspective, increased knowledge and improve depth of your conversion. I know this is true because I have seen the same rewards in my own life and that I thought, oh my goodness, he's not even prophet yet.

And I keep thinking, was his studying Jesus Christ preparing him for this amazing calling he would get? And if I were to start studying the Savior, Jesus Christ, what is it preparing me for? Maybe he's saying that, that, again, it goes how he started. There is wisdom in this suggestion from our prophet that when we get to know the savior, we understand he loves us.

And then it just is blowing my mind now because I have this really great quote from Sister Virginia Pierce. She gave it in the October, 1992 general conference. And I am thinking about how much fear revolves around our own, our own doctrine. Because I think sometimes when our kids make choices that we wish they wouldn't, Satan immediately buys into and makes us think, well now you can't be a forever family and it looks like now you're gonna have to, you're never gonna be together with heavenly father.

And he, he plays into that. And so in this quote. She says, you know, as we read scriptures, we find that fear has been a part of history of individuals ever since the world began. And she says, I can even imagine that in the pre-existent world when the two plans were presented, some may have chosen Lucifer's plan because of fear.

Like the fear of leaving the father and the mother with no guarantee that we'd return. And she says, you know, Lucifer perhaps played on those fears, assuring that with his plan all would return. I'd never considered that. 'cause he does that today. He uses the gospel of Jesus Christ, uh, against us. And so she says, you know, I can only imagine how Franny it must have been for Adam and Eve, who had lived with complete security friendly animals.

I love how she said that. Friendly animals, plenty to eat, no opposition from nature, and suddenly they're gonna be cast into this world where survival itself must have been a constant fear. But then she says this, and so, Marcia, will you read the first paragraph and then Rocío the second? Yes. Why is fear part of Earth's life?

Perhaps our Heavenly Father's greatest hope is that through our fears, we may choose to turn to him. The uncertainties of Earth's life can help to remind each of us that we are dependent on him, but that reminder is not automatic. It involves our agency. We must choose to take our fears to him, choose to trust him, and choose to allow him to direct us.

We must make these choices when what we feel most inclined to do is to rely more and more on our own frantic and often distorted thinking. As we concentrate on pleasing the Lord rather than others and continue to work hard doing the things we don't know how to do, yet we will experience personal growth.

We will increase our confidence in heavenly Father and his son, Jesus Christ. These faith as sure says that in the end we will not only survive, but we will know great joy and happiness. Oh, thank you. Wow. I love it. I love that quote. Tell me, tell me why you love it, Marcia, because it is true. We experience fear all the time.

Uh, when we are confronted with the unknown. When like, I, like I was telling my husband, uh, last night, I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm. I have experience fear every day when my kids go out, when my kids are alone, maybe something could happen to them. Poor heavenly father is probably bored of me asking this. But like, keep us safe.

Please keep us safe. Oh, I that all the time. Me too. Right? Help us, like make us, like, help us be back here together tonight and be, and be fine and be all safe. And, um, and the same with me. Like [01:15:00] keep me safe so that I can stay with my kids and experience them growing and all that. So I think we all experience fear, but I like how she says like, these fears can also make us grow closer to Heavenly Father because we need his help.

We are looking up to him for courage and mm-hmm to know that he's there. Watching over us and that we are going to be safe regardless of whatever happens in our lives. Right? Yeah. Fear is part of life. It, there's no, Nope. We can't eliminate it. We can't. And we live in a very scary world, and I love this idea that maybe the best thing we can do for our kids is to really teach them about Jesus Christ.

And that, I think is the purpose of the Come Follow Me Plan is for parents to teach their children about who the savior is. And everything we've talked about today that he sees you, that there is wisdom. I mean, there are so many awesome themes from today's discussion that you two have taught us and brought up.

I, I just have loved it. I can't thank you enough. So big, big, big. Thank you. This, this has been such a good discussion. It is been so good. We're done. That's the end. Wow. You two are brilliant. You survived. Yes. Okay. So do this and just gather your thoughts and tell me from everything we discussed and there was so much today, what is an eternal truth that you learned or relearned from our discussion?

Well, I, I can go first. Um. I liked when you said there's this preparatory, uh, wording in the scriptures and that made me think the Lord is never gonna just throw us to something new without any warning or without any preparation before. Um, that made me think of that. Like, he's always gonna be preparing us little by little and then he's gonna give us the whole picture, right?

Or well, yeah. Part of the picture. And I liked, um, that he's doing that with the saints in these sections. He's preparing them for the love of conservation or in other things that they're gonna face. And, um, I also liked what Rocío said, 'cause she didn't share, share this with me before, but about the, this love, it's mm-hmm.

Overrides fear and, but love, but fear is. Automatic, like it's an a response, but love is a choice. And we have to consciously make the choice to follow Jesus and to love to get rid of the fear. Yes. So, ah, love those. Those were so powerful. Wow. Thank you. Rocío, what about you? Well, my takeaway I, throughout this discussion, I've been seeing that in section 38, Jesus Christ didn't spell out like exactly what's, what was coming exactly, what was what he was going to do.

He was preparing them and just telling 'em, trust me, trust me. Mm-hmm. And then we know, because now we have the whole story that they were gonna have the temple, they were gonna be in doubt and blah, blah, blah, all these things. But it just, in my life, I've been thinking so much about him and how, um. He is in the details of my life and he's not gonna give me the full picture as much as I wanted.

Right. You don't give me, he'll prepare me, he'll ask me to trust him, to trust the plan that he has for me. And that's what I'm taking from this discussion is if we trust him, he'll take care of us. He's the same. God has been taking care of his people throughout history. I love what you always say, that we are God's favorite because I remember, like, I've always thought that I'm God's favorite, right?

Yeah. Even since I was little, we were Catholic before we be became members of the church. And um, anyway, so I know about Jesus and God from since I was very little and I've always loved learning about them. But it was not until I was in a women's conference at the conference center that I stood up and I saw the sea of women that I was like, oh man, uh, how fun that they make me feel so loved.

So, uh, precious and like, I don't know. It's special. Yes. And they do that for every one of these tons of women here in the conference center. And, uh, I, anyway, I just wanted to say that because you always reminds us that and it's so true. It's so true. It is. It is so true, so personable. They're so personable with all of us.

Anyway, sorry. No, don't apologize. I love it. I love when you said you saw the sea of [01:20:00] women, that your heart is so pure because I would've thought, wow, I got some competition. I mean, I know God loves them, but he loves me the most, so the most. Yeah. So pure. I love you, Rocío. Oh my gosh, ladies, you are a delight.

Uh, for me, um, I would start with Marcia when you went back and told the story about he's the same but he's not equal. I thought that was so profound. He is the same. He loves us the same. He'll do everything he can for us, but it's gonna look different for everyone. And your two stories are perfect example of that.

That was really powerful. So thank you. And then Rocío, I loved it when you pointed out to us when we first started. And you said they love me, they've got me, they trust me. And I just thought that was so cool. And you're right, they do. And and you can see that, that kind of message throughout everything you shared.

'cause then you ended with that awesome. Like, so if they love me, they've got me, they've trust me. Then we've been asked to learn about them and to learn about our savior and our heavenly parents and just learning about Jesus. It is a choice. That love I I thought that was so profound. And it's the antidote of fear.

Now you just wanna go back to James Koval and be like, okay, but wait, just love Jesus. Choose him. Choose him. Choose. Yeah. Choose Jesus. So, and maybe he did. I, yeah, he came back. That's why the bird's like I will do with him is seen with me. Good. Like I've got him. You go take care of your, the people. So. Oh my gosh ladies, don't worry about him.

Thank you. I love you. This was so much fun. Oh, he was. Bye. Okay, what did you learn? Go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned. And then at the end of the week, on a Saturday, we post a question from this discussion. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDSLiving.com/sundayonmonday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway because it's where we have links to all the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Desert Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living.

It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our fabulous study group participants were Rocío Gómez and Marcia Nimer. And you can find more information about my friends at LDSLiving.com/sundayonmonday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Aaron Halstrom.

Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember that you are God's favorite and he sees you.