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[00:00:00] When you hear about the second coming, do you get the second coming scaries. Okay, now listen, there are several sections in the doctrine and covenants that can give us second coming scaries and today's study of doctrine and covenants. Section 29 is one of them. Thankfully though there are also verses in this section that can put us at ease and give us instruction on how to prepare.

And my guest today have assured me that after studying these sections, they aren't even scared. Not one bit. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come Follow Me study. Just like our listening friends, Joslyn and Mary Gunderson, I loved meeting you guys. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different.

And today we have the dudes, Abe Mills and Tyler Collet. Hi guys. Hey, what's up Tammy? Hey, Tammy. Because it's the dudes, the guys. Oh my gosh. I always love having you on so much because it's such a fun discussion of scripture. What did you think when I gave you section 29? I thought, man, I gotta read that I.

I think everybody feels that way. What's in 29? That's so funny. It is. I thought it was kind of ironic 'cause I just, I just switched new assignments at work that kind of deal in the discussion of this section. Oh, so interesting. Okay. Interesting. It'll be fun to hear more about that when we get there. Yeah.

Ooh. All right. Well I think it's gonna be a fun discussion and the fact that it's just one section, I always like that. 'cause then we can just dive really deep into what we're talking about in these verses and there's quite a bit. So I think it's gonna be good. Really good. Um, any news for either one of you on your home front and life?

Anything fun? You know, it's interesting 'cause I think before we talked about my son going to Hong Kong. He is there, been there for six months and before he left he had a girlfriend here who joined the church. And um, she, her year. Was up, I think December. Mm-hmm. Her first year. So she is now on a mission.

She's in the MTC right now and is headed to Mendoza. Argentina. So that's been something exciting that's been going on out here. Wow. So we're excited about that. Oh, that's very cool. Wow. Yeah, it is. That's awesome. And you probably well know, uh, my son who just got home from his mission like two days ago, is now engaged.

Wow. That is fast and amazing. Yeah. Okay. It wasn't two days, but it feels like it. It feels like it. Yeah. It feels like it. Congratulations though. That's great. Thank you. So this is gonna be three weddings. Mm-hmm. And my first grandbaby within a year that I am just financially broken.

Instead of three weddings and a funeral, it's three weddings and a grandbaby. And that will break anyone. So good luck. No doubt. No doubt. Thank you. Donations are currently being taken. No, I'm just kidding.

PR code in this. Yeah. Oh, oh my gosh. Alright, everybody, well, if you wanna find out more about my guests, you can see their pictures and read their bios, which are in our show notes found at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with for sure today.

And let's dig into Doctrine and Cabinet section 29. All right, you two, when you just read the section, tell me what the Holy Ghost taught you. What's something that stood out? You know, for me, Tammy, it was repentance and how repentance is a gift and uh, it allows for blessings in our lives. Oh wow. And to repent now rather than later as I read the whole thing.

Okay. Things were just clicking with me. Uh, that that's, oh, yeah. Repentance now rather than later. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's, that's important. So not necessarily a specific verse that, that really mm-hmm. Emphasized that to me, but it was the whole section. I like that in light of everything he, that the Lord talks about in section 29, specifically second coming stuff.

I can see why you would get that. That's pretty cool. The, the theme of repentance. Great one. Thank you. Very good. Uh, so I, I think the thing that the spirit taught me is that everything is spiritual. Like all the commandments that we get or receive from Heavenly Father are spiritual in nature. I think sometimes we spend a lot of time trying to, trying to find temporal meanings behind them.

Um, because they don't make sense to us sometimes. Yeah. I know. A lot of times in the church [00:05:00] especially, we'll go around and say, well, how come we can't drink coffee, but we can drink Coke? It's the caffeine. Right. And so a lot of times we just, we kind of like attach things to it because a lot of people might ask us questions like, oh, why don't you drink coffee?

Or, why don't you do this? Or, you know, um, it could be, it could have to do with, you know, waiting till you're married. You know what I mean? So people will ask things and we, we come up with these temporal explanations or things that make sense so that it's easy to explain. But it, it says here in, I think verse 34, that everything's done for a spiritual reason.

And there's no reason other than it being spiritual. And, um, and the spiritual comes first before the temporal. And so I. I just look at it like that was what the spirit was telling me is like, listen, everything's done for a spiritual reason. Mm-hmm. Even like fruit of wisdom. And so when we come to those choices that we have and we're thinking, you know, how does this affect, um, even if it's just something that affects our body, we think, oh, well, physically I can understand, blah, blah, blah.

No. It's all about how it affects our spirit. Oh, Abe, I like that. It, in fact, as you were talking, I looked down at my verse 34 and I have written next to it for our eternal good. And as you were talking, I finally made all these connections, which is so cool because when you talk about some of the commandments we're asked to keep and we attach a temporal reason, it may not be it, but when you, you just said, all things are for our spiritual good.

Maybe sometimes when we're asked to do things, the spiritual good is just by ob being obedient. Because obedience is the first law of heaven. Even God has to be obedient. He doesn't get to be willy-nilly crazy up there. And so I just thought, oh my gosh, you're right. Like it is for our good spiritually.

Mm-hmm. That's the first reason why we should say is because it's for my good spiritually, I'm being obedient. So that was cool. I like how you just taught me that. Well, think about all the challenges too. Like sometimes things happen in our lives. We're like, well, why will God do that? And you know, now we can think back for our spiritual good.

So then what, what are we looking for in that? Mm-hmm. Where, where, where's our focus in that? Yeah. 'cause the world wants you to have a temporal answer, but the Lord for eternal Good. So excellent. Ah, it's good. Thank you. Thank you to both of you. We're gonna have a good discussion. This is an excellent segment.

And as we can already see from what you two have just learned, just by reading it and just by reading 50 verses, that's what we've got to talk about. So. In the next segment, we're gonna see how the Lord begins this entire revelation, and it's the very first time in the doctrine in Covenants. He refers to himself as this powerful name or title.

I'll tell you what that is. Coming up next.

Segment 2

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Okay. You two. If you were to call someone the goat, what would you be saying about that person? Oh, all the positives. Yeah. There's the Nobody better. Yep. Oh, they're the best. It's an acronym. What does the goat stand for? Greatest of All Time. The Greatest of All Time be one. Michael Jordan. Definitely, you could totally name some goats.

It's funny, there's a hair place out here called the Goat and forever I didn't know what goat meant and I was like, why would they name a hair place after an animal? That is so bizarre, so weird. Now I'm like, oh, okay. You go there, you get your hair cut and you look like the greatest of all time, then that makes sense.

Okay. It's a guy thing, Tammy. It clearly, clearly it's a Lord thing. Okay, how fun is this? You guys ready? I'm gonna show you a scriptural version of this title and it can only be applied to Jesus. Let's go to section 29 verse one. That's the only place we're gonna be, so in section 29 verse one. Tyler, we read that for us.

Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your redeemer, the great I Am. Whose arm of Mercy had the tone for your sins. Okay. Highlight the title in that verse. He is the great I am. This is a scriptural version of the Goat, and I wanna talk to you a little bit about this title. I am, because I've been studying it for several years in Hebrew.

I remember the first time I taught it as a seminary teacher. I was like, of all the titles he could call himself, here's Moses. He's on the mount at the burning bush. He is probably freaking out a little bit because he's having this moment. I, I just, it's mind blowing. And the Lord introduces himself, but he introduces himself after Moses is like, how in the world will the children of Israel believe that I was chosen of all the people, that I'm the one that's going to liberate them?

And we love that in Exodus, the Lord says, I am. Sent you so in I am. Here's what you wanna know, [00:10:00] and you can write this to the side of the verse. In Hebrew, it's the verb Haah, and it can be translated into two ways. It can mean I will become who I will become. It can also be translated to mean he causes to be.

Now, I really like the translation of He Causes to Be, because I imagine how powerful this must have been for Moses when he asked and he was worried how he was going to liberate the Israelites. And Jesus reminded Moses, I. I am like, I can do this. In fact, I can do anything because I already have. I caused all of this to be everything around you.

Nothing is beyond my reach. Nothing. Remember when I told you that I was the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob? He actually says that. So one of the first things that the Lord says to Moses is, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. If you've ever read that in scripture, there's a reason why he introduces himself as that.

Because he's saying, think all that I did for them and all the years in the history of that family. So if I could do all the miracles I did for them, think of all that I can do for you too. I can help you deliver the Israelites. The Lord wants Moses to know I can do this. I can cause anything to be that I want to be and I my work, I will become who I will become like I'm in charge.

I love this. Now the Lord uses this title in only two other sections in the entire doctrine and covenants. He's going to again introduce himself as the great I am in section 38, verse one, and then again in section 39, verse one. And these sections came at a time when the saints were asked to move to Ohio, and the Lord is reminding them I'm the goat in a sort of way.

Like, I can do this. I know you're freaking out. I know what I've asked you to do is so hard, but I can cause anything to be for my good. I can do it. Nothing is too difficult. And with me, you can do anything. And then so he says it in a conference that's in section 38. Then in section 39 he says it, when a Methodist minister who wants to join with the saints, he's gonna have to sacrifice everything and the sacrifice is going to be so great that I love that.

The Lord starts by reminding him, James Koval, I am the great, I am like I can do anything and so can you. Let me help you through this and we'll talk about that later when we get to that section, then you can find out what happens. But I love that the Lord first says, look at me like I love it. It's even as a parent, like, look in my eyes, look at me.

Focus on me. I can cause this to be. Let's cross reference that verse with doctrine and covenant section 88 verse 41. So next to verse one, put doctrine and covenant section 88 verse 41, and let's go there. And Abe, will you read this verse? 'cause this verse encapsulates the whole meaning of haah or I will cause it to be.

He comprehended all things and all things are before him, and all things are round about him. And he is above all things and in all things, and is through all things and is roundabout all things and all things are by him and of him, even God, forever and ever. Wow. Next verse 41. You can write the great I am, you just defined what that means.

So I, I equate this to the difference between like, say Star Wars and Star Trek. Okay. And I know this is gonna sound kind of weird, but you know, when you watch, when I watch Star Trek all the time, like their all, every story, it's not like you want to be able to see like a, a clear victor and you wanna be able to see like what's wrong all the time.

In Star Wars, you can see that there's like easy, there's an easy guy. That's the bad guy. There's an easy guy. That's the good guy. And then like at the end, the good guy wins, then this happens and that guy's gone. But in Star Trek, it's just always so much more, like so many more concepts and things going on that people don't understand as much.

I don't know if, did you ever find this Tyler? I'm more of a Star Wars guy. Yeah. I'm a Star Wars guy because I like to see it. I like to see who's gonna, and that's the reason I was not a Star Trek guy. My dad was, and I'd always watch it and just be kinda like, it's just so weird. But I think it's the concept, it's like understanding the things that are not seen that the other things that they're kind of talking about that, that exist in the background.

And when we, I think a lot of people, we have a hard time understanding Jesus in this way. When we talk about the atonement, there's just so much in it that we can't understand as humans. Mm-hmm. And so I feel like just for. To say like he is, that's the best explanation you can think of, is like, he is in all things.

He is through all things. He is around everything. He is like, it's like, okay, we understand those tiny words look like they didn't say any words that were like complicated to understand there. [00:15:00] Mm-hmm. But it's as close as they can get to under to, to us understanding what that means. Oh, I like that. Well, and to add to that, it's kind of what, what Abe's opening was as far as temporal and spiritual, right?

Mm-hmm. How the world understands the temporal and looks for the temporal and doesn't really always grasp the spiritual, uh, you know, w when you first ask what does GOAT mean to you? I know I immediately thought sports. Yeah, right. Uh, because that's a temporal thing. Everybody understands it. And it could be any sport.

It doesn't have to be basketball. It could be baseball, football, soccer, hockey, whatever. But, but I think that's kind of why is, is we, we tend to understand. The, the temporal side of things, more so obviously than the spiritual side. Not to say that we, there are those out there that don't, uh, I, I'm, I guess I'm speaking for the group, but it's, we understand more of the temporal.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I do think that when you, when you hear of people not understanding even the concept of God or Christ, because we, we do, we, we do see that sometimes, but it's like they have a hard time understanding it because it's just, it's not easy to, to see it if you're not looking in the right place or through the right lenses.

Yeah. Well, taking a sports analogy, I'm curious to know if we apply this life to a game, right? And we're all on a team, tell me what it does for you, knowing that you have the great I am as your. Coach as the center, as the, like. He's also the guy who's gonna help repair you if you get hurt. I mean, all he is everything on your team.

Tell me how that affects the way you play or go into the game. For me, no fear, it's, we're gonna win playing and simple. And in that way, when you, when something bad happens, then it's easier to say, okay, I have perspective in this, because the game isn't over. Yeah. Oh, I like that a lot. You know, it's interesting when we talk about this phrase I am, because Elder Holland said that in scriptures in the New Testament, one of the, he calls it one of the most stirring lines in all of scripture is when.

The savior and the apostles are at Gethsemane and he's just come out, he has finished that portion of his atonement where he has bled from every poor and they're looking to arrest the savior. And when they come up and they ask, they step forth and they say, you know, where is he? And where is this? Jesus.

In an effort to protect his disciples, Jesus steps forth and says, whom? Whom seek ye. And they replied, Jesus of Nazareth. And then Jesus said, I am he. He uses the exact phrasing right There I am. And what's so powerful about this story is the moment he said those words, I am. Then the entire group of Roman soldiers, it says they went backward and fell to the ground.

They had a physical reaction to that, that title that he has. I am, and Elder Holland writes about how much power there was in that moment by him saying who he is. He's the great I am and I, I thought a lot about this idea and this title for him, and I want us to then cross reference next to the great. I am one more cross reference.

Let's put doctrine and covenant section 20. And we're gonna turn there and we're gonna look at verse 77 and 79. Now in verse 77 and in verse 79, something that I'd never considered before is on Sunday when they say those sacramental prayers, there's something super specific in here that we're going to tie to this name.

Right in the middle of verse 77, in the sacramental prayer it says that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy son. Witness unto the, oh God, the eternal Father. Now here it is. Highlight this, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy son. This right here, I've never thought of this before until I read someone who wrote, what name comes to mind?

What name do you take on? Have you ever considered in the sacrament prayer? This week, the name I'm gonna take on is whatever the, of all the titles that the Savior has have we, I've never once sat there and considered, what name am I gonna take on this week? Or what name am I gonna think of this week when it comes to Jesus Christ?

There's a great book by Elder Holland called A Witness for His Names that lists all the names and titles of the Savior. But for the first time I thought, what if on Sunday the name I take upon me is I am and whatever it is I'm going through in my struggle, in my trial, that's the name that I'm going to take upon me.

That I may always remember him. And so it, it just kind of blows my mind that we could [00:20:00] possibly. The power that we could gain by saying on Sunday, the name I'm going to remember this week is The great I Am that he was. He is, he will be. He can, he caused, he will cause to be all the things that I need him to be in my life.

And that just kind of like, I don't know, it just changed the way, now I'm gonna take the sacrament, I think on Sunday. Yeah. It kind of, it kind of reminds me, you know, um, my wife talks about this a lot where, you know, and missionaries, missionaries have a tag. Right. And you put your name on it. Mm-hmm. And the other name is Jesus Christ.

Yeah. It's easier when you have a tag on. Right? Oh yeah. And so you remember a certain way that you act and things that you do and the way that you treat people. Right. So if we can think about that each day to have, I am like a tag on our chest, you know? Mm-hmm. Changes the way that we approach everything, changes the way we see everything.

Especially when you think I am Abe Mills. Mm-hmm. I am Tyler Collet. And how I am Tammy. Am I testifying of the great I am and everything that I do? Wow. What popped into my mind, kind of going back to the sport analogy with the goat, and I'm sure you guys will remember this, I can't remember which, which cereal brand, but they came out with a jingle.

Like Mike Phi could be like Mike. Oh yeah. This old Wheaties, right? I think, I think it was Wheaties. Oh, maybe it was Gatorade. But it was in reference to Michael Jordan. Right. Because every little kid wanted to be like Michael Jordan. 'cause he was just mind blowing. Good. And I remember as a kid, when I was playing basketball, I would always pretend Michael Jordan, oh, he steps up to the line, jump, shot, fade, you know.

Oh, sw. I was pretending to be like Mike, right? 'cause I wanted to be like him. But if you grow older, fast forward to today's podcast in DC 20 verse 77, are willing to take upon them the name of thy son like Christ if I could be like Christ. So now it's, it's given me a different perspective to that song.

And I replaced Mike with Christ. And maybe I can, uh, wake up every morning and play that little jingle in my head and, you know, love as he loves to help myself be like Christ. Love it. Yep. Oh, that's good. That is so good. All right, well we're gonna end with this quote by Elder Holland about the name I am.

Then we are going to find out what the great I am will do for us in the next segment. So here's the quote, whom secy with all our hearts we answer. Jesus of Nazareth when he says, I am he. We bow our knee and confess our tongue, that he's the living Christ, that he alone aone for our sins, that he was carrying us even when we thought he had abandoned us.

When we stand before him and see the wounds in his hands and feet, we will begin to comprehend what it meant for him to bear our sins and be acquainted with grief, to be completely obedient to the will of his father. All out of pure love for us to introduce others to faith, repentance, baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, and receiving our blessings as part of the temple experience.

We ask that the sacred blessings of the house of the Lord, these fundamental principles and ordinances that ultimately reveal our love of God and neighbor and joyfully characterize the true church of Christ will be evident. Brothers and sisters, I testify that the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the vehicle God has provided for the exaltation of our souls.

Segment 3

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In the Come Follow Me lesson for this week. There is such a cute one minute story called Chicks and Hens. It's told by a young boy about a specific verse of scripture in section 29. So I want you to listen to this story and come up with some real life application. Let's turn to doctrine in covenant Section 29 verse two, so we can read the verse and then [00:25:00] we're gonna hear this cute video.

Abe, will you please read section 29 verse two. You bet. It tells us something that the great I am will do for us who will gather his people even as a hin, gather at her chickens under her wings, even as many as will harken into my voice and humble themselves before me and call upon me in mighty prayer.

Okay, there's the verse. Here we go. Here's the cute little video. For little friends, chickens and Hens by James E. Griffin. Based on a true story, I will gather them as a hen gather with her chickens under her wings. DNC 10 65 every spring. The mother hen on the farm by Erin's house hatches new baby chicks.

Erin enjoys watching the mother hen take care of her chicks. There are lots of animals like snakes, boxes, and hawks near the farm that are dangerous to the baby chicks. The mother hen watches for danger. When she sees an animal that could hurt her chicks, she clucks to warn her babies. Some of the baby chicks quickly run under the wings of their mother for safety.

The mother hand keeps her chicks under her wings until the danger has passed. Other chicks do not go to their mother quickly. Not listening to their mother's calls for them is dangerous 'cause the chicks cannot protect themselves from the animals in primary. Aaron learned that Jesus said he is like a mother hen, and we are like baby chicks.

When we follow Jesus' commandments, he'll protect us like the mother hen protects her babies, watching the mother hen and the chicks makes their happy because it reminds him of how much Jesus loves him. Is that so adorable? Love it. Very nice. Oh, it's so cute. Okay, let's go to section 29. Then we read verse two, and as you guys are watching that video, give me the applications that you found of all the things that the savior can call himself a mother hen.

And I wanna know, why do you think other chicks don't go to their mother quickly if we apply it to our real life? That's a great question. Mother hand. Yeah, mother hand. Mother hand. I think of my mother, our mothers in general, but in, in, in this verse, the Lord refers to himself as a hen. Right? The video just explains it, right?

Mm-hmm. Outstretches the wings for protection, calls to the chicks, doesn't run over in, individually collect, even though I'm sure the hen would like to, but still calls out to them in a, in a. Way that they understand and then that's how they know Uhoh. Let's go see what mom needs. Or uhoh let's, I don't know, I'm not a chick, but something in their brain that they understand that that signals trouble is a foot.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I did actually looked it up. I was like, do mother hens really protect their chicks by, you know, bringing them in underneath their wings? And so, um, on the, on the internet it said that, yeah, during storms and when there's other animals around that could be like a threat, then they, they gather 'em in underneath their wings.

But, you know, I think it's interesting that he chose a hen. 'cause I mean, there's a lot of mothers, like you heard of Mama Bears, right? That Oh yeah. You know, go after people or whatever. And maybe it's just because when we think of Christ, maybe this is as, as indicative of the way that he takes care of us.

Um, even so. He takes care of us, but in a different way than perhaps other animals. Moms might take care of them. Um, 'cause I mean, chickens aren't really known to be really threatening animals that could do harm to you. So, you know, you ever had a rooster chase you a rooster? Now that right there a rooster's different, I'll take a rooster is different.

But same family. Those they're mean roosters are mean. Yes, that's true. But Abe, I've never thought of that. You're right. Like, why wouldn't it say that? You know, he will go after you as a mama bear. He thinks like I was in danger. He'll take you out. Right. So it's a different concept here. That's so good.

He's gathering them in. He's protecting them. And you know, it's, and I thought about the storm. You know, you think about a storm and you go, okay, how do I, how do I survive this storm? Because, you know, sometimes in the life we think, man, this is like a storm. You know, how do we survive it? Well, you know, Christ is, that is the one that we have to keep our, our eyes on and.

Listen to the words of Christ. 'cause sometimes maybe they can't even see where their mom is, that the rain's coming down too much. So they have to listen for that voice and get to the right place. Yeah. Well, in the video, this line stood out to me. It says, other chicks do not go to their mother quickly.

Not listening to their mother's call for them is dangerous because the chicks cannot protect themselves from the [00:30:00] animals. Now listen, you guys have kids, do you have kids that probably wouldn't run under their wings? Like, why do you think there are some that just don't go under the wings? Yeah, you're shaking your head.

Abe, talk to me. Why? So listen, I think that there's a couple of reasons. Sometimes they're not paying attention, you know, that's number one. Mm-hmm. Number two is they think that they know better. They think that with their eyes, they can see better than what I'm saying. And in some cases they wanna prove it.

That they, that they know, you know, I can do this. I, you know, I'm, I'm good. You can watch me. Then that's where you have to look in the footnote and be aware of the rooster, right? Mm-hmm. Be aware of that rooster. They're aggressive. I'll tell you they are, you know, and as Abe was saying that, I was thinking how true that is with our kids and maybe there's obstacles in their ways, uh, whether that be temporal or spiritual obstacles.

And they just may be comfortable where they are. They may be comfortable spiritually, they may be comfortable temporally, and people don't like getting outta their comfort zone. Um, and so that, that could be why I. Ooh. All of those are such good. I wrote these down. Your answers that you gave, they're not paying attention.

They think they know better. There's maybe obstacles in their way or they're just comfortable with where they are. Excellent answers because I want us to apply those to our discussion going into section 29, because here's the Lord, setting up a discussion about the second coming with these two verses before we even get into what we call the second coming scaries.

He's like, lemme tell you who I am and lemme tell you what I can do for you. And in verse two, there gives us three reasons. I like these. I've circled them. Let's circle the three reasons why. Maybe we don't run under the wing of the hen in verse two when it says even as many as will. Harken to my voice.

So right there, circle the word harken. They didn't harken to my voice as many as will humble themselves before me, and as many as will call upon me in mighty prayer. We have this idea of harkening, which in Hebrew we know means to listen and obey. So right there the word harken means that. So as many as well listen and obey, humble themselves before me and then pray.

Those are the three reasons, the three things that will keep you safe to go under those wings, Abe. Well, so I mean I was, that was what I was thinking, the humility part, because it is humbling sometimes and I think about us, it's super humbling for us to sometimes say, okay, I need to do something a little bit different.

Right. Um, because it's not working and I'm not listening to Christ necessarily or to the spirit because I feel like I know what it is and I feel like this has gotta be the way. I mean, think about that with your kids. How many times as a kid did your mom say, come here as you, she was dropping you off at school or whatever.

You're like, not in front of my friends mom, please. You know? And, but, you know, and that's the thing is like, if you can, if we can learn to not be ashamed of that, and maybe it is, that's the reason why he used the hen because it's like, it's not that majestic animal, you know? Mm-hmm. It was like, do you have the humility to come under the wings of the hen?

You know? It's like, okay, that's good. If you see though, you know? Yes. As that, as, as I was studying this, Tammy, um, I had found a, uh, another podcast. I don't know if that's, I should say that. Mm. Who are we competing with? No, I'm just kidding. Go ahead. I love other podcasts. You bet. It, it, it's the, the BOM Bites, the, the Book of Mormon socks.

Company. I don't know if you ever heard of that, but so cool. It was on their episode, uh, 1 1 4 8 11 48. But it, in there, he talks about, basically that verse, he talks about how Christ compares himself to the hand gather in his cheeks, and he shows that in third Nephi chapter 10 verse four, it reads, how often have I gathered you?

Verse five, how often would I have gathered you? And then verse six, how often will I gather you? And he made the point that here we see, how often have I. Would I And will I gather you, so essentially the Lord is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Yes. And here we are with Joseph Smith in, what was that, September 26th, 1830 when this revelation was given.

Now I know 1830 is like, whoa. We're almost 200 years from that. But that's essentially our timeframe. Right. I mean, I could say I was born in the late 19 hundreds now. Yeah. You know, I mean, all three of us can, we're in the late 19 hundreds, so, you know, [00:35:00] that wasn't in reality, that was not that long ago. And here we have before Christ came to the Americas saying, Hey, I'll gather you yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Mm-hmm. And so it, it just was kind of reassuring that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. So I love that. You just came full circle with what his name means. I am. I caused it. I have existed. I am, you know, I did it before. I'll do it again. I love that because, and even when he uses, I am, he was referring to, I did it for, when he came to speak to Moses at the burning bush, he said to him, I did it for your ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I can do it for you and I will do it for people in the future. It's just, it's awesome. Tyler, I love that you studied that and figured that out. Give us the cross reference one more time into third Nephi. That would be great to have next to that verse. Yeah. That was third Nephi chapter 10. It was verses four, five, and six.

Perfect. Thank you. So this is great. This idea of this mother hen and that he has always done it and he will do it because we're going to want him to do it when we get into these second coming scaries, which are kind of already happening. And so in the next segment, we'll begin our discussion of that.

Segment 4

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Before we even begin our discussion of going deep into all these verses, I wanna know this. Why in section 29 do you think Jesus introduced himself as the great I am and as a mother hen before he gets into the second coming talk, I mean, I think a lot of times he will establish who it is that you're listening to in order to say, okay, so what I'm going to say you need to listen to.

Because they'll say, I am that. I am like, mm-hmm. So understand the where I'm coming from. I don't know. Have you ever been listening to your parents and you're kind of listening to 'em when you were a kid, right? And then, but there's a time where you know, you better listen because they've given, they've given you this tone or something specific that they say.

A lot of times it's when they call your full name, right? Your middle name with it. Now you're like, okay, I better listen to what they're saying because they're pretty serious right now. Right? Yeah. And so I, I feel like this was his way maybe, of saying, all right, I know all the stuff that I say is serious, but this, this is serious.

Oh, yeah. Listen, and, and what I'd love to know this, Tyler, because you've dealt with a lot of leadership in your career, and as somebody who's over you, how does this make him a good leader the way he's setting it up? Well, the way that he sets it up to me is, is he, he gives his authority Yep. Right from the get go.

Um, so immediately, you know, as far as my world goes, it's you're paying attention. You're listening. And then verse two is, yes, he, he's already established the authority, but now he is establishing that love that you were, that you were bringing up of I'm willing to do this because, because of what? Will happen.

Mm-hmm. So, uh, you know, but as far as my leadership goes, it's it That's someone that you would look up to and that's someone that you respect. That you, as soon as they start talking, you listen. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So he tells us, look, here's who I am, the great I am. Here's what I'm going to do for you. And when it gets scary, I will gather you.

And then I love verse three. Read that for us, Tyler. Behold, verily, verily I say unto you that at this time, your sins are forgiven you, therefore, you receive these thingss. But remember to sin no more, less peril shall come upon you. And then he, he's like, and you know what, I'm gonna do you a sec. I'm, I'm gonna do even better.

I'm gonna tell you, your sins are forgiven. And so, knowing all of this, then here's the history of Section 29 and how it came to be. Abe, can you read this for us? Even though the church of Jesus Christ had been organized in 1830, many gospel truths were still yet to be revealed. Several early church members had questions.

They had read prophecies in the Book of Mormon about the gathering of Israel and the building up of Zion. How would that happen? The Revelations Hiram page claimed to receive speculated on that subject, which only increased the member's curiosity. Other people wondered about the fall of Adam and Eve and spiritual deaths.

The Lord welcomed these questions in 1830 and he welcomes our questions today, whatsoever you shall ask him. Faith, he told the saints being united in prayer. According to my command, you shall receive. In fact, as the doctrinally rich revelation shows, the Lord sometimes responds to our questions by giving us truth and knowledge far [00:40:00] beyond what we ask.

Thank you. So let's dive into some of this doctrinally rich revelation that came by way of section 29. So grab something to mark your scriptures with. We're gonna bracket off some things, and we're gonna label 'em in this section about the answers the Lord gave to the questions the people had. Okay, here we go.

So first things first, what you wanna do is we're going to bracket off verses seven and eight and put to the outside gathering verse 13, label that the resurrection verses 14 all the way through 25. So I picked one color bracketed 14 through 25, and you're gonna write the second coming. And I also put next to it, the second coming scaries and, and we'll dive into that.

Did it scare you a little bit, guys, be honest. It was a little interesting to say. It was descriptive. Descriptive. That's a good way to put it. We'll leave everybody at that. Okay, here we go. We're going to put verse 26 is more resurrection talk where he answers some questions about the resurrection. Verse 27 is more gathering talk, so put gathering next to that verses 28 through 30, bracket 28 through 30, and write to the outside.

Final judgment

then versus 31 through 33, is talk on the creation. I put creation to the outside. Then we have versus 36 and 37, which talks about agency and premortal life. Then verses 40 through 41 is the fall of Adam and Eve. We have two more to bracket off, bracket off, verses 42 through 45 and put to the outside, outside of that mortal life,

and then 46 to the end of the chapter, 46 through 50 is atonement of Jesus Christ. Now, just out of the gates, the fact that he has to talk about this many things, what does that tell you about the questions? The Early Saints had? A lot. Got a lot of questions. Listen, I think it's interesting that it says in there that, um, the quote that we read, it said they had a lot of questions and that, uh, it said something like, you know, because the, the, the fullness of the gospel, like there were still things that had not been received yet.

Yeah. So I think it's, it's really important for us to understand as well that now. We still have not received the fullness of it. We are a living church. Mm-hmm. So a lot of times I think people get, um, at least I've seen this, is that you see people that get so caught up on a certain thing and they wanna know the answer to all these questions, and some of the questions are pertinent.

Some of 'em may not be, but the point is that we are a living church. We don't know everything. Right. God has, has revealed us. Remember it says all the things that yet he is, he still will reveal. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's part of our, our articles of faith. I think we, we forget that because we think, oh, well, we should know the answer to all of this stuff.

And when we don't, then we think, well, then the church must not be true. Or, you know. Mm-hmm. People start to doubt everything and start to, you know, their faith becomes shaken because they're like, well, I thought that we knew this and why, you know, and, and so, uh, it's always interesting because like, yeah, no, we don't, there's so many things yet to be revealed.

We are a growing church. We're a living church. And so, and that's today? That's today. Yeah. That's today. Yeah. The, the, the saints back then they didn't have, yeah. They had just a seedling Right. Of what we had today. It blows my mind when you think about it. Yeah, it really does. So I can, I can, I can appreciate the questions that they had.

Uh, you know, some was clarifications and some was just downright. What about this? Hey, I, this thought just popped in my mind. Could you ask the Lord about this? It's like the more concepts that you introduced, the more questions there are. Yes. Yeah. It's like a rabbit hole. Exactly. It's like having a toddler.

Well, why? Why. Yeah. Why? You know. Yeah, exactly. And that's how the early church members were. Well, why? Because they had, their knowledge was so limited and the gospel of Jesus Christ, the restoration of that opened and expanded their view to something they hadn't even considered. For example, just verses 46 through 50, this was probably the one that blew their minds as he is talking about, just starting out in verse 46, behold I say unto you that little children are [00:45:00] redeemed from the foundation of the world who might only begotten.

Therefore, they cannot. Sin for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children until they begin to become accountable before me, because they were like, well, you baptized children. You baptized little babies or Bab, you know, infant baptism and all of this different thing. And so here he is. He's reframing this idea of the age of accountability.

He's going to say, in fact, if you wanna put a cross reference to verse 47, we don't know what that age is yet, but we'll find out in section 68 verse 25, and in section 68 verse 25, the Lord will say that's eight years old. And so he's just kind of reframing their brains and giving them information. As you read all of these, I wanted to know, is there one that you felt like really reframed yours maybe, or something you're like, oh, now that's interesting that they had a question about that As I was reading through it, mine was, uh, verses 31 through 33, the the creation.

And that reads for by the power of my spirit created, I them, yay. All things, both spiritual and temporal. First, spiritual, secondly, temporal, which is the beginning of my work. And again, first temporal and secondly, spiritual, which is the last of my work speaking unto you that you may naturally understand.

But unto myself, my works have no end, neither beginning. But it is given unto you that you may understand because you have asked it of me and are agreed. Now, when I read that, I was like, what the, what does that mean? I love it. Yeah. Right. Um, so in studying this, I found in the DC student manual, uh, section 29, it was titled Prepare Against the Day of Tribulation.

That reads, and it kind of clarifies it, but I still have a question about it, so I'm gonna ask you about this, Tammy. Okay. It says, when the Lord created the Earth, he first created all things spiritually. After the fall, all things became temporal. At the end of the earth, the temporal will again, become spiritual.

Thus, in the beginning, things were spiritual first and temporal second. In the end, things will be temporal first and spiritual second. So translate that into English for me. Dumb it down for me. Still. I mean, it, it makes more sense to me. Mm-hmm. But maybe, maybe some of the listeners, maybe some of you listeners out there are like me and still don't fully understand it.

I love you Tyler so much. That is awesome. Well, what you read is super powerful. First of all, I love that you went to the student manual, that people always ask me, what should I use to study the doctrine? And covenants always start with the student manual because it is perfection. And in fact, we will include a link in the show notes that will take everybody who wants to know more to the manual.

It's the doctrine and Covenant student manual, so I highly recommend it. So good job, Tyler. So let's retranslate this. As you said, this is such a good question. I'm really glad you asked it, so thank you. So the manual is correct. It's referring to our existence and our creation. We, Adam and E created everything God made was created spiritually first, and then it became physical or temporal.

I wanted to think about that because for many at this time, life just began with physical creation at the time of Joseph Smith. That's all they understood. And the Lord right here, remember the church is not that old. We are not even a year old yet, and the Lord is teaching them, wait. You were created spiritually first, which had to be mind blowing for them.

And then we as temporal or mortal beings, because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, we will become resurrected and we will go from being mortal or temporal to spiritual resurrected beings, including this earth, which according to article of faith, number 10 will become, it says the Earth will be renewed and receive its para cycle glory.

You could almost say that about us. We will be renewed and receive our resurrected para cycle celestial glory. So that is what that first means. Okay. That, see, that makes sense. And I was kind of thinking that, but I wanted your opinion on that. You were right. And I kind of, I kind of feel like too, if we, if we were just to just look at our lives, right.

And that, that's what I love, that I, I actually, the thing that you brought up was the thing that I, that stuck out to me was that creation and that he created us by the power of his spirit. Right. Mm-hmm. When you think about that, you go, okay, I mean, how many times do we see ourselves as like having spiritual, if you think about DNA, right?

Do we have spiritual DNA? And if so, then do we put our physical DNA sometimes above our spiritual DNA, we like push against the spiritual. You bet we do. Right? But our Sunday, we were created Sally first. Right. Exactly. Fast Sunday's one of those uhhuh, but we were created spiritually first. Yeah. And then we were created temporarily.

Right? And then from this temporal life, like [00:50:00] Tammy said, we go into a spiritual life, which after we die, we go as spirits, right? Mm-hmm. And so, um, I think it's interesting that we sometimes wanna reject our own spiritual DNA. We think ourselves being created before we came here and not, you know, not a lot of people believe that, right?

Or understand that concept as we understand it. But I. To think that you were created before you came here. It's like, aha. So what is my, what is my true purpose? What is my true origin? Who am I really? And if we can figure that out, then it makes everything else. I think it makes it more purposeful. It may not make it easier.

I think it makes it a little easier when you know. Mm-hmm. But more than making it easier, make it more, it makes it more purposeful. Like you have a true meaning behind what you're doing. That is so cool, Abe, because you're imagining the early Saints who again, have been living a certain type of religious experience and now all of a sudden they're told, wait, wait, what?

We were created spiritually first. Whoa, we weren't just born and now we're waiting to go to heaven or hell at the end. There was a a creation before, and that's what these verses are teaching. I created all things spiritual and then temporal and the first, spiritual second temporal. And I love how you said DNA, because I always used to teach to my seminary students.

When you consider the genealogy of your spirit body, it goes from heavenly parents who are perfect to you. But when you take your physical body in the genealogy, there's a lot of room for all sorts of craziness, right? You think of all the people you come from. No wonder we have so many diseases and things.

I mean, you've inherited a lot of stuff. There's a lot of room for mistake, no room for mistake in our spiritual creation, temporal there is, and so it just makes beautiful sense that if the purpose of this life is to overcome the natural man and to let our spirit be stronger, that's why I love Fast Sunday.

I feel like it's the one Sunday of the month where my little spirit can be reminded of how awesome it was. Like, look, you can do this. You can overcome the physical, totally possible. Mm-hmm. It's hard. You can be real hungry, but you can do it so that then when all is said and done. The two, combine the spirit and the body for perfection to be able to live forever with our heavenly parents.

And to be like he says at the very beginning, to be without sin in verse three when he's like, you've been forgiven. I think that is the, that's the goal. That's the culmination of all of this. And so That's cool. I love that both of you pointed out those three verses. It's kind of fun to put yourself in the position of these early saints and who must have had so many questions.

And then to have Joseph Smith be like, yeah, I don't know. Because he would've been, well, I think that still happens today, right? That that absolutely happens today. Even with Saints. Like, well, I, I don't know. We have so many questions and then for a prophet to go, but let me ask God. Let me get a revelation on that.

Well, so I think understanding how this works is so important as members of the church. Ooh, talk to me. Um, I wanna say so, oh, who was it? Elder Raz Band was in our state recently, and he talked about, you know, just when you, when they come together as the 12 right. And the first presidency. So those 15 come together and they're trying to determine like sometimes how do we move forward with certain things?

Like they all have to be in total agreement. Mm-hmm. Own it. So it's not like they're all sitting there and coming there and going, oh, I feel like I know exactly this way. And they're all on the same page. They're praying and trying to understand and trying to make those decisions on certain things policy wise.

Yeah. Um, and so sometimes when you see those policies, he was saying it takes a lot of years for that to happen. Right. But it's a protectant to us, right. So that somebody doesn't just go off, like, you know, feeling some type of way about something and then make some kind of decision that would, that might be, you know, totally not what God wanted.

So to have those 15 there and have to be completely united on it, it just protects us to make sure that we're not getting, you know, information that we shouldn't be getting or getting, you know, guidance that we shouldn't be getting from our prophets. You know what I mean? Yes. But when you look back at the church and all the different things that have happened through the church and the different revelations that have come, it makes a lot more sense that like, you know, like a lot of times you might hear people say, well, why did it take that long for that?

Well, because, you know, there was a, there was a, a system that was put in place. Yeah. And that system just made sure that when the decision was made, that it was the decision, particularly when it comes to Revelations, [00:55:00] official declarations or anything like that. Abe, I love that you just bore witness of the testimony.

I wrote that right in here, testimony of the 12 by Abe Mills. You just bore witness of that. That was so cool. 'cause what you said is true and the, those men are set apart. They have the keys to be prophets, Sears, and Revelators. One thing that they do not have the keys to be is perfect. And as, as members of the church, we need to understand that there's a process that's been put in place.

Trust the process. If we understand and believe that they are prophet, Sears and Revelators, then we must also understand that as men, they're not perfect and that there's a process that happens. And so as we go through that process, you know, understand that, wow, those are patience that that comes with that.

Thank you. I love how you just said keys of perfection. You're right. Nobody has those. Nobody has those. That was good. Wow. Thank you for that discussion. This has been fun to put ourselves in the mindset of the Early Saints and the questions they must have had. There were so many, and so Section 29 is just addressing some of those questions.

So in the next segment we're gonna dive in to another maybe question and teaching that applied to them then, but really applies to us today. We'll do that next.

Segment 5

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I have a question. This is fun. Are you two the type of families that like to do puzzles? Are you puzzle families? I would say we've done puzzles. Uh. In, in the sense of putting the pieces together. Maybe not so much, but in board game puzzles. Yeah. Okay. Board game puzzles. Very good. Definitely board games.

Uh, we've never been, we haven't been that way, but over Christmas for some reason we were all on, like we had a table set up in our TV room and all we did was watch movies and do puzzles. It was the craziest thing. 'cause we're not like that. Yes we are now. And so my kids are like, let's do a new tradition where we go buy a new puzzle and try to put it together.

So we bought a lot of puzzles and we had so much fun putting these puzzle pieces together. We're gonna talk a little bit about this idea. So I want you to be thinking your mind, this idea of puzzles and putting 'em together because it connects to doctrine and covenant section 29 verses seven and eight.

We're gonna read these two verses and I'm gonna show you how it connects to a puzzle. So Abe, will you please read section 29 verse seven and eight. Okay. And you're called to bring the past the gathering of mine. Elect for mine. Elect hear my voice and harden out their hearts. Wherefore, the decree has gone forth from the father, that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are set forth upon the wicked.

Thank you. Let's go back to verse seven. You're called to bring past the gathering of mine, elect highlight, gathering. Verse eight, it says it again. The decree has gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered unto one place unto the father. Highlight gathering right here he is introducing this idea of gathering, and I don't know that Joseph fully understands what it means to gather, because it won't be until section 110 when Moses comes to the Kirtland temple and he restores the keys of the gathering of Israel.

So it's this new concept to all the saints, this idea of, we're gonna gather, here's what Elder Neil l Anderson has to say about the concept of gathering. He said this in October, 2016. General Conference. Tyler, will you read this quote for us please? Yeah, you bet. It reads, the gathering of Israel is like an enormous puzzle whose pieces will be set in place prior to the glorious events of the second coming.

Just as we might be perplexed with the mountain of puzzle pieces, the early saints must have seen the commission to take the restored gospel to all the world as a nearly impossible task. But they began one person, one puzzle piece at a time, finding the straight edges working to rightly frame this divine work.

Little by little, the stone cut without hands begin to roll forth from hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands, and now millions of covenant latter day saints across every nation are connecting the puzzle pieces of this marvelous work and wonder. Thank you. Let's go back to verse seven. When he says, gathering of mine, elect circle, mine elect.

We're gonna define that when it says it in scripture. He's gathering mine elect. What that means is those who harken, there's that word, those who harken to the gospel message. So they hear it and then they obey it. But what's interesting is when it says they're going to be gathered into one place. Now this word right there circle one place because it means actually many places.

It's the concept or idea where we will be gathered together and that one [01:00:00] place will be a temple. Here's what Joseph Smith has to say about this. The main object of gathering was to build unto the Lord a house whereby he could reveal unto his people the ordinances of his house and the glories of his kingdom, and teach the people the way of salvation for there are certain ordinances and principles that.

When they are taught and practiced must be done in a place or house built for that purpose. So there will be different times that the Lord will say, gather into one place. He said it in 1830 about Ohio. He said it in June, 1831 about Jackson County, Missouri. One place he'll say it about Independence, Missouri.

Then he'll say it in Navu, then he'll say it in the Rocky Mountains. And then what he's saying is, stakes in Zion all over the world. And then ultimately temples to be gathered into one place to return to him. Now Abe, you're rubbing your hands. I love it when Abe rubs his hands 'cause he is got something he is thinking.

I love it. Well, so when we look at this and we look at like John 10 16 where it says other sheep I have, which are not of this fold them also I must bring. Now if you look at that and you look at literally like if I told you, Hey, I'm gonna bring something, then you would think, okay, so these other sheep, he's gonna go get 'em and he is gonna bring them right to this location right here.

Mm-hmm. But he's not talking about that. Right. He even says to the people when he goes to, uh, in third knee fights to the people in the Book of Mormon, and he says, you are the sheep. Right. And there are other sheep. And he talks about other sheep that he and they, that he will bring them as well. So he's not talking about bringing them to a physical location, meaning a physical location in terms of like altogether at one, one spot on the earth.

Right? Yep. He's talking about bringing them to a spiritual location, right. Which can exist on many different physical places on the earth. And so this is, this is the precedent has already been set. Yep. So this is nothing new that he's doing. He is doing it like, like he did before, right? Yep. And wow.

Wouldn't we love to know the other sheep that were the other sheep that he went and saw what they had to say and what their experience was. Um, but now we get a chance to, you know, we get a chance to experience that as we see. The gospel spread across the world, and you hear all these kids. I have a friend of mine whose son got called to Cambodia, and you know, my kids in Hong Kong, we have people all over the United States, and we got a girl from our ward that's in, uh, uh, what's the name of that place?

Uh, Mongolia. And, you know, all over Africa. We had a kid from the other ward that's in Africa right now. You know, my son's girlfriend is headed to South America. And so you start to look at just all these places and all of these amazing things are happening. There's missionaries, and it's, it's exciting.

It's exciting and it's good to see that, you know, he's saying, but what, but what is the, the purpose of all of these people to, where are they supposed to go? Where are we all supposed to meet? Mm-hmm. We're all supposed to meet at the temple, right? Yeah. We're building temples everywhere. Yes. Right. We're announcing, I mean, when did they start?

47 something new temples in the last, like in the, I think last year alone. And now that part in general conference at the very end where he announces temples. Yeah. Is now for me, so much more exciting. 'cause I'm like, where else are we gonna gather? Oh my gosh. The, the, uh, the number of temples we have that are dotting the earth is mind blowing, isn't it?

It is, it is. Oh, okay. So let's, let's continue this because now I'm thinking, let's just talk about a puzzle because Elder Nelson, he compares it to a puzzle. And when you're doing a puzzle, what is the most frustrating thing that could possibly happen when you do this puzzle? Right? You, you're laughing at, what is it, what's the most frustrating thing?

Well, because when you do puzzles, it's like you can't find, there's a piece and you're like, I can't find this piece guys. I know it's blue. Yes, it's every time. And I don't care who you are. We bought new puzzles, we still missed pieces. 'cause they fell on the ground. They were on someone's shoe. Like, it blew my mind how easy it was to lose a piece.

So. I want you to think about that idea in light of these quotes from our prophet. So here is what our prophet has said about the gathering. Here's a couple of them. He says, one, the gathering is the most important thing taking place on the earth today. We have been asked to gather. He said that three months after he was put in as our prophet, okay?

Three months after he's hit and gathering, he said, there is nothing happening on this earth right now that is more important than that. There is nothing of greater consequence, absolutely nothing. Then four months later, he says this, Tyler read that quote. This gathering is the greatest challenge, the greatest cause, and the greatest work on earth today.

It is a cause that desperately needs women because [01:05:00] women shape the future. So tonight I'm extending a prophetic plea to you, the women of the church, to shape the future by helping to gather scattered Israel. So he said that at the women's session in 2018, in 2020, he says this about gathering a read this and his Let God prevail talk.

When we speak of gathering Israel on both sides of the veil, we are referring of course to missionary temple and family history work. We are also referring to building faith and testimony in the hearts of those with whom we live, work, and serve. Anytime we do anything that helps anyone on either side of the veil to make and keep their covenants with God, we are helping to gather Israel.

Thank you. Oh my gosh. So many great verses about this idea of gathering into one place. So when it comes to the gathering and bringing everyone to one place, what happens if you feel like your child is a missing puzzle piece or a member of your ward or someone, a dear friend? Yeah, that's a great question.

You know, I, I, I approach that in, in two different glasses. Mm-hmm. So el as an elders corn president to the members of the ward, I look at that and then, then I look at it as a parent. Right. Um, you know, as, as elders corn president, we would as a presidency, uh, pray to how we could best help that individual and invite that individual back to church or to the temple, or to even minister.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, and then we would kind of go from there. We would use maybe close neighbors, friends in the ward as well that could go over there and maybe help with that. Um, but we would be consistent about it. Right. We wouldn't just try it once and be like, ah, shoot. Okay, well, nevermind. Let's move forward.

We would conti consistently try. Mm. And then taking those glasses off and putting my dad glasses on with my kid, my daughter, my oldest daughter, I, it, it's, it's something that she has her agency and that can be frustrating at times. Right. Because you know where that puzzle needs to go, you know where that piece needs to go, and you just wanna point at it and say, no, it, that's the piece that connects right here.

You need to put that one here before you can, before you can attach these other pieces. Yeah. And really, as my dad, glasses are on, you know, it, it's more so just. Kinda shake your head and just continue to love as much as you can and pray that their hearts will soften. Mm-hmm. And it, I think it's kind of a, a, it can be a balance 'cause you don't wanna over pressure and, you know, send all of this church related material or, or Right.

Whatnot, but at the same time, you, you want some sort of spiritual influence that she may not otherwise be getting. So, yeah. It, it's kind of tricky. 'cause on that one, I would kind of, unfortunately she has her free agency and just kinda let her, make her choices, but still continue over. Like, it's like, it's that whole Love the sinner.

Yeah. Not the sin type thing. Yeah. You know, but, but obviously the, the, the wings are outstretched and Right. And the hen is calling and if she chooses to. The invite is there and if she chooses to come, then she's, she'll be welcome, you know? Mm-hmm. I don't know if that answered your question necessarily.

It did, but that was, that's kind of the struggle I see anyways for a lot of people, myself included. Yeah. And I like how you brought us back to the hen and how we began. You're connecting it. You're seeing why he said, let me start out with who I am. Lemme start out with what I can do. 'cause we're gonna get into some stuff that might be a little bit difficult, but if we keep going back to verse one and two, I've done this before.

I'm doing it now. I'll do it in the future. Yeah. I, I got this, I've done it for so many. But how, but how great is your joy when you put in that last puzzle piece to complete the puzzle? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's a great feeling, especially if it's a thousand, 5,000 pieces or more. Wow. So we have this, um, puzzle on my door at church.

And, um, it is, it is a picture and every time somebody goes to the temple, they're supposed to come and put a piece up Oh. On the puzzle. And it matches up to a number on there. And so we're not quite there yet, but every time somebody goes to the temple, they come and they [01:10:00] put a piece of the puzzle up there.

Well, now that's fun. Yeah, it's been good. It's been great to see people and then seeing how many people are going to the temple and then coming back and putting their piece up. Oh no, I love that. I might have to introduce that into my ward. What a cool idea. For sure. Yeah. Let me know and I'll get you all the info.

But you don't know what the picture is yet? Oh, no. I know what it is, but I keep telling people, I don't know. We're gonna find out what it is, but it's a picture of, it's a picture of Jesus, hard not to see it because there's so many pieces, but there's little pieces that are, that are not there. And I guess if you were gonna look at that like life, right?

Some, sometimes we can see that it's Jesus, but sometimes we're still trying to figure out our pieces, aren't we? Mm-hmm. You know, not to brag, but, uh, a a little while ago, I put a puzzle together in less than an hour and I was kind of tooting my horn to Kara. Sure. And she's like, that's no big deal. I says, well, look at the box.

It's three to five years. And I did it in an hour, but I'm bum. That's good. That's great. Wow. Well, I like this idea of puzzle, especially going to the temple, the gathering place into one place. Wow. These verses seven and eight might be the coolest thing ever. For our awards, do a puzzle when we go to the temple.

If you're close to a temple and you can go, that's neat. That's a great connection, Abe, thank you for sharing that. Oh my goodness. Mm-hmm. So let's gather into one place, get to the temple, and, and find the missing puzzle pieces. And like you said, just love them. I, I appreciate that, Tyler. It does take patience and love and wings open.

So that was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, well then in the last segment we're gonna go into some of the questions they had about the second coming. And we've been calling it the second coming scaries, and my guests are gonna help me discuss these verses. We'll do that next.

Segment 6

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All right, you two, here we go. Let's have some fun with these verses. We bracketed them off 14. All the way through 25 and I labeled them in my scriptures, the second coming scaries. It's one of the places we'll study the second coming this year. We'll do it when we get to section 45, we'll do it section 88.

There's just so many great sections. But here's where it's first introduced. And let me just start out by saying this. Joseph Smith said this quote, do I delight in the destruction of the children of men? No. Does the Lord, no. He gives them timely warning. And if they do not listen to his counsel, they must suffer the consequences.

So knowing that before we get into some of this stuff, just know He, he is the great I am. He is a he who will gather you if you're willing to humble yourself, if you're willing to continue to pray and hearken and obey. So I wanna know you two, what were some of the verses that stood out to you and what did you find out about them?

'cause these are nuts. Yeah, so I. Mostly the ones that talked about like flesh and flies and maggots and stuff. Oh, read that verse for us. You gotta read it. So, oh, since is verse 18. So come with me on this journey. Wherefore, I, the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take a hold, take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh and shall cause maggots to come in upon them.

Okay. That's like, okay, so, and all I can see is flies on people's faces, even though I know that's not what it said. For some reason, the word face and the, and the word flies close to each other, just, Ooh, flies all over your face with maggots and stuff. And it says, and their tongue shall be staed, that they shall not utter against me, and their flesh shall fall from off their bones and their eyes from their sockets.

I'm sorry. I'm, I'm out. I did not need that. I just, it seems like the worst of all horror movies. Mm-hmm. It really does. I. Well, I agree with you, Abe. I do think there's something about descriptive verses that really touch or hit at our heart and just make us go blah, which kind of is what makes this a little bit second coming.

Scaries. I will read this quote. This is probably kind of one of the only things I could find written on this description of fly. So here we go. For whatever it's worth, it's one of the earliest doctrine in Covenant's. Commentaries, and it says this, we may well believe that in addition to the plague of flies, there shall be included in this prediction.

The plague of microbes or bacilli, new to the scientific world and with which they will not be able to cope, much of which will be the result of impure lives. So there you go. For whatever it's worth, but I think makes us go, okay, wait a minute though. Remember, remember how we've started and our whole discussion is maybe, hopefully it turns us to Christ.[01:15:00]

I hope it turns us to them and makes us go, okay, let's lean into them and trust them in all of this second coming Scary talk make, make it Christ centered. But let me ask you this though. Why do you even think it's in there? You know, sometimes you have to really, as a father, you have to be real descriptive with your children.

Mm. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. In order to like really, really put the point home, you have to be real descriptive sometimes. And so any fathers out there know what I mean? Gotta be real descriptive. Mm-hmm. And so I feel like he's just being real descriptive so that we understand what the consequences of some of these things are.

He is like, now listen, I am the hen and I look outta the hen, but if you don't, then flies maggots beasts and fouls. The bower and things is what you have to look forward to. That's my, I like it. They got, they gotta eat too. They got, and that's why God created him, I guess. Yeah, I, I do love how the Lord does use such descriptive verses that do strike fear.

I think sometimes that is the goal of the Lord to just really give us a great stern warning. Like, let me tell you, get it together, or it's gonna be ugly. You know, in, in verse three where the Lord says your sins are forgiven you. And then in that same sentence, but remember to send no more or less perils shall come upon you.

So he, he gives us that blessing and then he says, uh, but mm-hmm. If you mess up again and we don't go the repentance process, you're subject to everything else that everyone else is subject to. Right. I like that foreshadowing in this chapter. Absolutely. I do feel like God uses physical things, so when we talk about temporal and spiritual and the difference between, yeah.

He uses the temporal things to scare us because if you look throughout the scriptures, there's examples where, you know, he will say things that mean th things to us that he doesn't care about, but he knows what they mean to us. And so to get the story across one of these, one of these points is that, that's the story of the talents.

Mm-hmm. It gives us numbers. Those numbers mean nothing to him. Yeah. Matter of fact, he tells you that they mean nothing to him just because it was the one who had the least amount. Right. That didn't do anything with it. That was the only one that he was upset with. All the other ones, it didn't matter if they only ended up with six or if they were ended up with 10.

Mm-hmm. He didn't, he just wanted you to increase the talent. Right. So yeah, he doesn't care about it, but he put the numbers in there so that we can understand it. Right. Same with this, he's, he's telling us these things physically so that we understand it and it brings an, uh, a soberness to it. Yes. You know, it's not that he has to, he doesn't want us to focus on those things.

He wants us to focus on the spiritual, but he knows that we're just so messed up sometimes that we can only focus on the, you know, the temporal things. And so he tells us, he uses our language to, to explain to us. Yeah. Well, and going back to what Tyler said, the foreshadowing in verse three, and then you read verse 17.

I, I feel like these two verses totally connect Tyler Reed, verse 17. And it shall come to pass because of the wickedness of the world that I will take vengeance upon the wicked for, they will not repent for the cup of mine. Indignation is full for behold. My blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a big deal. That's some hard word right there. Hard wording that makes you just go, okay, maybe I should repent, which I get why you talk about Let Tyler, the repentance part. Yeah. So I do have a question for you. So in, in, in this, I mean these are the second coming scaries as you, as you had labeled it, right?

Mm-hmm. So I, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess my question is, do you think that this is currently happening and, and right now, in today's, and, and the reason I'm asking is. Because of my work. I have seen flies on people. I have seen maggots in dead people. I have seen literally animals that have eaten people.

Do you think mm-hmm. That's coincidence? Or do you think that that is part of those verses that are happening today? Like what are your thoughts on that? I think we are living in the second coming scaries. Okay. I don't think we're waiting for this stuff to happen, but I'm gonna let Joseph Smith answer that question because there's such a great quote.

Here's what he has to say. Quote, I will [01:20:00] prophesy that the signs of the coming of the son of man are already commenced. One pestilence will desolate after another. We shall soon have war and bloodshed. The moon will be turned into blood. I testify of these things and that the coming of the son of man is ni even at your doors.

If our souls and our bodies are not looking forth for the coming of the son of man and after we are dead, if we are not looking forth, we shall be among those who are calling for the rocks to fall upon them, unquote. And you can find that in the teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, page one 60. And I just think, you know, when we consider the second coming scaries, which we've called them this and, and sometimes they can seem a little overwhelming and scary as we've talked about, I just want us to look back on how we began the very first thing.

That Jesus wants us to know is that he is the great I am. He can cause anything to be He. He will become who he was sent to become because he is going to return and he can do anything for our good if we believe in him and gather under his wings, like we have nothing to be afraid of knowing that Christ is the mother hen.

I love that imagery so much. So then the scaries aren't scary when we have taken on his name and when we know who he is. And I think that's a challenge for all of us with Section 29 and especially the Sundays, we partake of the sacrament to take on a name and think of him and remember him. And I'll just share this last thing with you because I always joke with my husband, if you've ever had a lesson or a class when someone has said, if you knew Jesus was coming tomorrow, what would you do?

And my husband will say, well, the first thing I'm doing is taking the plastic off of the enzyme or the lehon. So it looks like I've been reading him. But the second is I wouldn't do anything different. 'cause hopefully I have been prepared. And I think that's the whole point of this discussion today, is that we're recognizing the signs and we see that we are absolutely preparing for the second coming of Jesus Christ and it will be glorious.

So thank you for joining me guys. That's the end of our discussion. You guys did great. Section 29. Wow. Okay, great. Section. Gather your thoughts and what's an eternal truth you learned or something that the Holy Ghost taught you or we taught you that you already knew? For me, it's very simple. Jesus Christ is coming back to earth.

Oh, powerful. I think when I think about this, the thing that I learned is that everything in our lives is spiritual in nature. And that if we approach it that way, if. It will change, it will change everything. A lot of the questions and things as we, I mean as we look at, just like if we look at today and if you were to go on a Facebook feed or a Twitter feed, I guess X feed or any of the social media feeds, and you were to look at all the questions that people have and the comments that people are saying, if you look at it from a standpoint like, Hey, the spiritual is more important than the physical and all of creation is, was created spiritually first, and we make our decisions and look at those things based upon that, I think it would just, it would solve a lot of problems that people have.

It would answer a lot of questions that people have. It would change the perspectives of many people based upon looking at it from a spiritual nature rather than a temporal nature. Almost everything that I see on there, people are making decisions based on temporal things and temporal things alone, and a lot of times.

They'll even put the word moral on it. But it doesn't have to do with morality at all. It has to be do with temporal needs and temporal wants rather than spiritual things. So I would say that's my eternal truth to take away from this, is that when you see it, it's come from Christ. All of that can only come from Christ.

Mm-hmm. But it's his, the power of his spirit that he used to create us. If we're able to, to view this world from that perspective, each day when we get up, it will change the way that we, that we act. It will change the way that we see things. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Great truths you guys. That's awesome. Um, Abe, I loved it when you reminded us and said that they don't have the keys of perfection.

That was so profound. I liked that a lot that profit, Sears and Revelators do hold keys. But that one, I, I thought that was great. Yeah. And they're doing their best, so. And they are prophets, Sears and Revelators, for sure. Um, Tyler, when it comes to finding the missing piece, I like how you said, I have two glasses, elders, corn president, and then the glasses of a dad.

And I feel like I really resonated with that, that idea of you, you just can't force anybody and you just have to love them and love them like a hen and open those wings and be there [01:25:00] for them. And so I thought, I loved how you had those two perspectives, so thanks guys. Thank you. That was good. Thank you.

Amen. Thank you. You were, that was awesome. You guys were just perfect for this section. 29. Wow. And now are they, are the second coming scary still kind of scary? Or are we okay about it now? I'm gonna be watching now for my eye. Keep away from those flies. Abe, you know, as, as CS Lewis put it, when they author, the play comes on stage.

The play is over.

Oh, that's funny. No doubt. No, no doubt. Oh, you guys are awesome. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Go enjoy your day off. Thank you guys. You guys are amazing. Thanks Tyler. Thanks, Abe. What eternal truth did you learn? Wow, there's a lot in this section. Go join our Facebook or follow us on Instagram and share what you have learned.

And then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we will usually post a question from this discussion. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday, and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, it's where we're going to have links to the references and a transcript of this whole discussion, so go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our incredible study group participants were Tyler Collet and Abe Mills. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.

Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. See you next week, and please remember that the great I am, loves you and you are his favorite.