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[00:00:00] How would you describe your home? How would family members or friends describe it? Or better yet, what is someone who you've just met comes into your home? How would they describe it? Because this week's study of Doctrine and Covenants sections 20 through 22 is going to examine what makes a home and what it was that made a very specific home, which played a very important role in the restoration and by some scholars has been dubbed as a celebrated dwelling place.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study.
Just like my listening friends, Sarah Carpenter from Cedar city and John and Diane Paxton from Wyoming. Hello friends. I love meeting you. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today I am so excited to introduce you to my two dear friends who I think are going to just make this discussion perfect.
We have Tamu Smith. Hey lady. Hey girl. How are you? Well, I'm so happy because I'm seeing your face. This is the best day. I miss your guts. Oh, I miss you too. Okay. And Tamu and I are thrilled to introduce you to our new friend and her name is Shahna Argyle. Hi Shahna. Hi girls. It's so nice to see you. Oh, I met Shahna last year at timeout for women magnify event just briefly.
And I'm telling you right now, she said her name to me and the spirit said, remember her. And I wrote her name down and here we are all these months later and I was getting ready for this episode and your name just popped into my head and I love how you, I reached out to you and you were like, how did you find me?
I made me laugh. I'm like, are you in the witness protection program? You're like a super sleuth. I kind of am, but Shahna, tell everybody about you. What do you, tell us some fun things about you. Well, um, I'm a convert to the church. Tamu, aren't you a convert too? I don't know how I knew that. Um, I joined the church as a teenager.
Um, I'm a therapist and I work predominantly, I only work with females, but I predominantly have like, most of my client load is high school and college age girls. So that's super fun. And I love it. And I teach an adult religion class also known as, as Institute to, um, on Wednesday mornings, um, here in, in the Dallas area where I live.
So I love, I love the scripture. So I'm super excited to dig in with you. Great ladies. That's a long term commitment, a 10 year calling. Yes, it is. But I love it so much. I think of it as like my sacred stewardship. I just, I love it because I learned so much. Yeah. And I know you know that from teaching it as well.
You just, the person who takes the most away from any kind of teaching calling is the person doing the teaching. So. Boy, that's the truth. Oh, well, we're going to have a fun time with this discussion. I am really looking forward to seeing why the two of you specifically are helping me cover these chapters and given both of your backgrounds, especially with teaching and your knowledge of the gospel.
I have a feeling it's gonna be really good. So if anybody wants to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and see a picture of them in our show notes. You're going to find those at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. And. Just honestly go there because you're going to want to see Tamu and roller skates.
It's the best bio picture I've ever seen. Look, I'm going skating Thursday, um, every Thursday, whoever wants to join. She really does. I could add a roller skating picture of myself and then we could be twins there. I was, I'm a child of the eighties. You bet I roller skate. Oh my word. Please, please, please.
Where did you grow up? Dallas. Okay. Yeah. I just, I don't like, Utah has not been like, I live off the river trail and I would think that you would see people skating more, you know, on the parkways and stuff. Nope. I'm not saying rollerblade. I've got roller skates. Yeah, the four wheels. I love it. They're awesome.
Yep. That's right. Tamu's got some moves too. I've seen her on the four wheels. The eight wheels. Whatever. I got moves like Jagga. Cause I'm old like Jagga. I love it. Okay. So grab your scriptures and grab something to mark your scriptures with. And let's dig into Doctrine and Covenants sections 20 through 22.
All right, you two, tell me, we'll start with you, Shawna. What did the Holy Ghost teach you as you read these sections? There was so much, but I loved, one verse just really popped out at me in section 20, verse 11. It talks about, um, proving to the world that the holy scriptures are [00:05:00] true. And this is the part that I loved, and that God does inspire men, and I'll add, and women, and call them to His holy work.
In this age and generation as well as in generations of old, and I thought of, you know, sometimes when we talk about callings being called to something, we think about being called into the Bishop Ricks office and being asked to do a particular job. But for some reason this time I thought about all of the times in my life that I have felt called to a particular work.
That was not a formal calling. Um, and I made a little list, like even there have been times where I have, um, detected maybe there was a sister in the ward that needed a really attentive. visiting teacher or ministering sister. And I went to the Relief Society president and said, listen, if you need somebody to, to, to be her ministering sister, I'm your girl.
Cause I have the time, you know, especially now as an empty nester, I have the time to, to devote to that. Um, when my husband was serving in a state presidency years ago and I was attending, um, mission prep with my own kids, uh, I just remember feeling like. Just the therapist part of me, I thought there, we could really elevate this.
We could talk about so much more than just preparing spiritually for a mission. We could talk about life skills and emotional preparation. And I went to my stake president and said, I just had this idea. And you know, next thing you know, my husband and I are asked to teach mission prep for five years. So there have been so many times in my life that I have felt like the spirit Was actually calling me to a particular word work or to be, you know, a friend to somebody that needed a friend.
And I just love that, that I know that that has been true in my own life and I've seen that in other people too. I think that is awesome. In fact, I'm gonna probably refer back to that verse so many times now in today's discussion. 'cause I'm thinking ahead to everything we're gonna discuss. And that verse applies to the theme of our lesson about how to make a home, um, specifically the home we're gonna talk about today.
So that is so cool. I, I know Tamu believes in that. Tamu often feels like she's called to a holy work. I mean, sad, I mean, you're just singing tam's tune for sure. That's cool. You are. You are. And, and I just, even with what you said, I wanted to add to one of the things that stood out to me was in section 20, 38 through 45, where we're talking about how the elders and having the authority to administer and spiritual things.
As I thought about that, I thought about our different roles in our communities. Um, and the things that we, because of our knowledge, the knowledge that we have through the gospel of Jesus Christ, what our role is to our community, our brothers and sisters in the community, whether they're of our faith or not, what is our responsibility to them?
What is our role to them? And how do we show up and, and are we using some of the things that we've learned? In the gospel, not in the church, but in the gospel, are we using those things to be better stewards of our relationships with our brothers and sisters? Oh, wow. I love that. Yeah. Tell me, let me ask you, how do you show up?
For me, I show, one of the ways that I show up is I look at, at what some of the needs are in my community. And I don't have to be told, for example, um, this Christmas, uh, some of the, Ward and community Christmas parties. I went to for whatever reason. I don't even understand why, because I'm not the type of person that'll go to a party and take home a plate.
Grew up in my, like I grew up in a family where if you didn't go to the barbecue, you would say, just tell him to send me home a plate. And I always hated that. Like, like, no, go get your own plate. I don't want to do it. And, um, but I also noticed that we, as a. Society, we have a lot of waste. We have a lot that goes to waste.
And so, um, I was at Costco one day and they had these to go containers and. I bought some and my husband was like, why are you getting those? And I said, I don't know. I just felt like I should get them. I just, I don't know. And went to a, went to the Genesis Christmas party and there was like a ton of food leftover and we usually have that on a Saturday night.
And so I just like, I think it was like 30 containers filled those up with food. And then the next Sunday, um, since I live in Utah County. And we don't, uh, really have a place where people can go and get food on Sundays. Cause we don't really have a shelter. And so you kind of have to fend for yourself.
You get, there's a church here that serves breakfast, but you really kind of have to fend for yourself. And so [00:10:00] me and my kids just took the food that we had left over that was probably going to go to waste. And, um, we took them and we took it out and gave people food. And I mean, we, everybody took it, they were happy.
And it was like, it was. Christmas dinner food. So it was not what they were typically used to at that time on a Sunday. So it was good. And I love, I love that. I buy those same, I know exactly what containers you're talking about, Tamu. I buy the exact same one. I've never seen them before. And I was like, I don't know.
I just feel like I should get on me. It was like, for what? Like, you don't even ask for like leftovers. And I was like, I know, I don't know for the kids. I don't know. That's right. That was such a fun discussion. I mean, we totally felt the spirit. I think, I think so many people listening feel inspired to maybe listen to that little voice, the little prompting, the little idea that pops into their head, um, because that's how we get called to holy works.
That's pretty cool. And I think that's what builds the house. And we're going to talk about houses. We're going to talk about a celebrated dwelling place. I can't wait to show you where that is in scriptures. So in the next segment, let's dig into what makes a home. We're going to do that next.
Segment 2
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All right, you two, in your opinion, I want to know what would make a celebrated dwelling place? What would make a home a celebrated dwelling place? Well, I, I immediately, my thoughts went to, um, we just got some exciting news, like in November that, um, we're going to be grandparents for the very first time.
And so when my, um, My oldest son and his wife were here over Christmas. We got to have a gender reveal at our home and we invited, we just were telling a few people at that point, but we just had a fun celebration because this has been a long road and it's just the answer to so many personal prayers that this is happening, but it truly was celebratory.
I mean, everyone there was just so So happy. And so my thought was just that it, it's a home where. We can celebrate good things together, but we can also celebrate the accomplishments of each other. The good fortune that we see. I like that. That's a great answer for me. It involves food. Like I love nothing more than having people in my home and so much food.
I usually make it to excess. I don't want anyone at my house going, where's all the food? And Tamu knows she's been a whole smorgasbord. I just want people to come and eat and be cozy. That's That's my idea of a celebrated dwelling place. I can attest that Tammy does make lots of food. I could have taken those same containers to her house and filled them up.
It's true. You could have. Um, I guess when, when you ask the question, I mean, my mind went to so many different places and of course I was just, um, in Portland and I have family there. So for Super Bowl Sunday, we got together at one of my Cousins house lives in a cute little apartment, but in this apartment, he has four televisions in one room so that we could watch the Super Bowl.
Like it was just like on top of each other. It was like a sports bar, but in his house and, um, and just looking around and kind of, these are some of the cousins that I would babysit. And I mean, I'm like nine, 10 years older than them. And just looking at, um, these young men, these Kids who are now men and just being able to celebrate with them, having the memories and the laughter and, um, and for me, it's, uh, a place of celebration would definitely include laughter and music.
I mean, amongst the other things, of course, food, but laughter, storytelling, like reminiscing and music. Okay. Your answers were awesome. And I think everything you described is exactly what this place is that we're talking about. Let's go to Doctrine and Covenants section 20. We're only going to look at the section heading and we're going to mark it and then label it.
So section 20, the section heading, and here's what it says. Revelation on the church organization and government given through Joseph Smith, the prophet at or near Fayette, New York, highlight Fayette, New York in your scriptures. And then above it, under where it says section 20, draw a little line. And we're going to put in the home of Peter and Mary Whitmer, because that is exactly where all of this stuff is happening.
The church was organized in the home of [00:15:00] Peter.
This home was pretty incredible, and we are going to read this quote, Shahna, I asked, I asked Shahna to read this quote for us. It comes from the Journal of Discourses from Orson Pratt, and he's explaining this celebrated dwelling place. Orson Pratt joined the church on his birthday, September 19th, 1830.
He was baptized by his brother, Parley P. Pratt, in Old Canaan, Columbia County, New York. Orson came to see the Prophet Joseph Smith at the Peter Whitmer Log Home in Western New York the following month of October and later reflected. Quote, it was a very interesting period of my life when, but 19 years of age to visit the place where this church was organized, the room of old father Whitmer, where the Lord spoke to his servant, Joseph and others as printed in the book of Doctrine and Covenants.
In that same room, a revelation through the prophet Joseph was given to me, November 4th, 1830, which is also printed. And he refers to Doctrine and Covenants 34. That house will no doubt be celebrated for ages to come as the one chosen by the Lord in which to make known the first elements of the organization of his kingdom in the latter days.
Thank you. I mean, look at some of these accomplishments or things that happened in the Whitmer home, and we're going to have these in our show notes. But Peter and Mary Whitmer. So they, first of all, they allowed Joseph Smith, Emma Smith, and Oliver Cowdery to live in their home. So the two men could complete the translation of the Book of Mormon.
The Whitmer farm was the place where Moroni showed the golden plates to the three witnesses. Four of the eight witnesses were Whitmer's children, Christian, Jacob, and Peter Jr. And John Whitmer, the angel Moroni, he showed the plates to Mary Whitmer, who is known as the 12th witness of the plates, which I think is so fun.
Other things, April 6th, 1830, between 40 and 50 people were gathered in the Whitmer home where the church was organized. This home was the nerve center of the expanded missionary effort for the church. The very first. Churched kind of general conference was held in this home. And so you can just see how many cool things, but now I want to go back to the things you both said, because it's a place where people can celebrate.
I think it was a place where people could laugh, where they could just be together and create, talk about memories, Tamu. So many memories were created in this beautiful home in this, what a scholar called a celebrated dwelling place. And in the next segment, we are going to find out how the Lord will set up his house.
in a celebrated dwelling place. And we're going to learn some of the first things that he did.
Segment 3
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All right, you two, I'm actually excited to ask this question because I don't know the answer. And I'm really, I think it'll tell us a lot about each other, but in your homes, do you guys have any specific set of instructions or rules as you've set up your home over the years? Um, I would say that I have rules that I had before I had children and, um, and then rules that I had when this house was new.
That didn't, you know, you know how kids will change some things in your life. I would say that a version of my house was going to be kind of like the temple before I had children, like after I got married and before I had kids, and then it just. You revert back to what you know. So then my house became a Christ-centered chaos.
but uh, I'm writing that down. Hold please. Christ-centered chaos. Christ-centered chaos. That is awesome. And um, and Christ is still here in the chaos. Mm-hmm . So it is probably very familiar what his life probably felt like when people enter my house. 'cause they're just like, what is happening? But I know in price knows, so that's.
That's, that's all that matters, okay? Okay, but everyone, if you know Tamu, I will tell you this about her house. Everyone's welcome. And if you need a place to stay, that, yeah, you, she'll find a pillow for you. Yeah, we got floor, we got pillow, we got blankets, we got sleeping bags. Yes. It's the best Christ centered chaos that I know of.
Um, oh, I like it, but I think so many of us are laughing because we all have these ideas of having a home. Like the temple. Christ centered chaos. I love that though. I kind of want to put it on a plaque now in vinyl lettering. Christ centered chaos. Um, I, I definitely had, I don't know if there were rules.
There were probably just more Routines when my kids were younger, because, you know, we had seven in our family and so we kind of had to have, you know, like Saturday mornings were sort of set aside for kind of cleaning the house. If everybody [00:20:00] had chores and we had to have a family calendar just to keep track of where everybody needed to be.
And, um, just routines that were in place so that we could function effectively. So it wouldn't be to just. You know, maddening, but what's funny was when you asked us to think about that, I don't, now that I don't have children living at home, I don't really have any rules, but I do have some instructions that are right outside my front door.
And it's this really big, um, it's just this really big plaque. That's right outside my front door. And it's says, may all who enter as guests leave as friends. So, in a way, I thought, you know, that's kind of instructions that if you come in that you will hopefully, you know, feel like a friend by the time that you leave.
And I think that's just a really good, that applies to church too. We hope that anybody that comes into our, our church building will at least Whether they continue to join our church or be a part of our congregation, that they will know that we are their friends in the community. Absolutely. Excellent answers.
Both of you. Mine is, I mean, I obviously had rules and expectations because I got married when I was almost 35. So I had a lot of time to think about it. And when I got married and became instant mom to two little kids, yeah, we threw that all away real quick. And the only thing we have is a little plaque on my fireplace that says in big letters.
Laugh because it's the only thing that's going to get me through any of this. So that's the rule. You have to laugh about it no matter what. So I want everyone to be thinking about this idea about what makes your home and what rules or what instructions you have because section 20 are the rules and instructions.
for Christ's house and grab a highlighter and grab a pen. We are going to bracket off his rules or instructions for all of us when the church was organized. We're going to start in section 20. We're going to just read verse one so we can get the verse that introduces to the church being organized. Tamu, can you read that for us?
Yes. The rise of the church of Jesus Christ in these last days being 1, 830 years since the coming of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh. It being regularly organized and established, agreed to the laws of our country by the will and commandments of God in the fourth month and on the sixth day of the month, which is called April.
Thank you. Love that. So there's where it was organized. Verse two. Read that for us, Shawna. Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jr., who was called of God and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ to be the first elder of this church? Okay. So now throughout the rest of this chapter, here are his rules and his instructions.
In section 20, grab something to mark your scriptures with, and we're going to bracket verse 37. Highlight that verse. 26. 27. And to the outside, you're going to put baptism. Verse 37 says, and again, by way of commandment to the church concerning the matter of baptism. And then the baptismal prayers are going to be found in verses 72 and 73.
So turn the page, bracket off those two verses and write to the outside, baptism. And that's where you have the baptismal prayers. Okay. The next part in section 20, let's go to verse 38, highlight verse 38, where it says the duty of the elders, priests, teachers, deacons, and members of the church of Christ to the outside of 38.
Let's just write DNC. 107, which the prophet has encouraged all of us women to study. And we're not going to go there, but section 107 is where it sets up the hierarchical or the government, kind of the way the priesthood is governed and the hierarchy of the priesthood and the callings. So I think that's awesome.
Okay. The next place we want to go to is verse 68 highlight verse 68. And here's where the Lord gives us the duty of the members after they are received by baptism. Amen. And we'll come back to that. We'll come back to that specific duty later. Then highlight and bracket off verses 76 through 79 and to the outside right, sacrament.
These are the sacramental prayers. So I've just bracketed that off and put sacrament.
Segment 4
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So when the church was organized, the Lord taught his saints about sacred ordinances, including baptism and the sacrament. And that's what these verses are all about. And I asked you to, and now that Shanna, I know you're a convert, this is so cool because I wanted to know when it comes to these instructions or rules, are there any that are specifically meaningful to you?[00:25:00]
Oh, I, I love that they're teaching us about the sacrament and because I haven't come from another faith tradition, you know, as a child and as a teenager, I don't, I think we took a form of this sacrament. We called it, um, Something else, but I never really understood what it meant until I became a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
And I really love how here in these verses we understand how important the sacrament is. It really is the most important 10 minutes of the entire week. And, um, I have this quote that I found that I really loved from Melvin J. Ballard and you, you may be familiar with this, but he said this, the one thing that would make for the safety of every man and woman would be to appear at the sacrament table every Sabbath day.
We would not get very far away in one week, not so far away that by the process of self investigation we could not rectify the wrongs we may have done. The road to the sacrament table is the path of safety for Latter day Saints. But I love, he's basically, can you imagine how different the entire world would be if everyone had the opportunity to pause in their busy lives?
every single week and spend 10 minutes just reflecting on what they did well that week, and also what they want to do better the next week. And I just think it, it would be transformative. I want to know as a therapist, just from a therapist perspective, why you think that would be beneficial if we approach the sacrament that way.
Well, you know, self reflection is such an important part of self improvement, and self awareness is such an important part of self improvement, and I think sometimes we get so busy with all the things tugging at us, we don't spend enough time really thinking about, and I think it's really important to, to To consider what you're doing well, not just what you're doing wrong.
Oh, I like that. Let me write that down. When you look at those prayers, is there a specific line that for you is meaningful? Well, I love just, I think the part that is the most meaningful to me and the part that maybe I didn't understand before my conversion, um, was that we eat the bread. In remembrance of the body of our Savior, and I remember when my children were younger, I used to try to teach them, you know, that is supposed to symbolize really with that white cloth draped over it.
It's really supposed to visually remind us what it is we're being reverent about. And that's. You know, the death of our savior and then his resurrection. And so I really, that part always stands out to me when I hear those priests. Reciting that prayer, I'm glad you brought that up. I didn't know that till I was so much older, like probably my late twenties, early thirties when someone said, Oh, it's supposed to look like the body underneath in the tomb.
Oh my gosh. That blew my mind. Well, and, and, and when they were, when my kids were really little, you know, I, It's really hard for kids to sit still and be reverent all through sacrament meeting. So if I'm being honest, that probably really wasn't the expectation for me, but I would say to them, but during the time while we are doing the sacrament, I really would like for you to just try to sit and think about what it is we're doing.
Yeah. That's the one rule I have. No devices, no coloring. Yeah. Let's just sit here for 10 minutes. Don't poke your sister. This is the one song I want you to sing. Yeah. Right. Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you for answering that, Shahna. I really appreciate the insight you taught me with those prayers. Um, and especially from your therapist perspective, I like that.
What am I doing? Well, that's important. The self reflection. So cool. What about you, Tamu? One of the things that I Thought about, well, there were several things that I thought about. Um, one and other churches, they, they don't call it the sacrament, but they do do communion. And I actually was at a church, um, that this past Sunday and Portland and, um, that they had communion there.
So it's, uh, like it's. A cracker. Sometimes it's, uh, that little thin [00:30:00] disc looking styrofoam tasting wafer. It's a wafer, right? Yes. And some like concentrated grape juice. Um, and, um, and so When I think that he said, cause I was asking, it was, it was my cousin, it's my cousin's church in Portland. I asked, um, where the sacrament prayer, I mean, where the communion prayer came from.
And he said that he likes the version it talks about, uh, the last supper where Jesus says, you know, this we do in remembrance of for, and then it made me. I knew that we had this coming up and so it made me look at our sacrament prayer and the thing that really, I've never really paid attention to it before, but it talks about how, uh, that we do this.
That they may witness unto thee. And I've heard that a gazillion times, right? But witness unto thee. And that's one of the things that we're covenanting to do. And I started to think you have this all knowing God and in Jesus and the, just by the, the simple fact that I'm there, it should be a witness, right?
But, uh, we take the sacrament to wit as a witness. To Christ that we will always remember him like. And I just never thought that I was needed to witness to Christ, my Savior, that I would always, of course, I'm going to always remember you. But it's one thing to say it, it's another thing to be to church on time, to stand in that commitment.
You know, that's part of our commitment is being at sacrament on time, which I struggle with. And if my bishop ever listens to this, I hope he don't, I hope he does, but then I hope he doesn't because I don't need him texting me talking about, you say that you do this as a witness, but you're always late sister.
I don't need that from him. It's a new year, new energy. There you go. Um, but yeah, right, right there. And so, but just that we would need to witness, does Jesus need us to witness unto him? I don't know. But the father says that we do it. So that we all that as a witness that we will always remember him. Wow, Tamu.
I, that's really cool. Because as you were talking about that, I looked at both of the prayers in 77 and then in 79 and they're a little bit different. Each prayer is slightly different, but the one thing they're consistent in is what you just taught us. They both say that they may witness unto thee that we will always remember him in both prayers.
That that's really cool. And, and does it mean being on time to church? I don't know how you gonna witness if you not on time, like if you, if you didn't see the accident, are you a witness? Like if you got there right after? Not really a witness. No. Oh, you know what? Can I just tell my favorite Tamu story?
It's my favorite story ever is when Tamu and I years ago when we traveled together for time out for women We sometimes traveled on Sundays and on a Sunday. We were together And we were getting ready to go to church. It's the first time I ever traveled with you and we were about to leave and you come running out of the elevator and I was like, Oh, you're here.
And I said, Oh my gosh, I'm so surprised you came because not because of any other reason then you have so many kids and people living in your home. I said, I thought for sure you'd take the opportunity just to sleep in and enjoy your morning. And Tamu says to me, I ain't sleeping in on Jesus. I'll sleep in on anything else.
I'm not sleeping in on Jesus and I've never forgotten that how to sleep on me. I'm gonna put that in there. Don't sleep in on Jesus . That's right. Oh my gosh. I am going to issue that challenge. I wanna know how everybody remembers him. I wanna know what everyone's witness is on a weekly basis. Like what do they do?
That would be a fun, I'm gonna put that question on social media. Um, because that is really, that has you thinking, especially in the self reflection that you taught us about Shahna, what am I doing well, what could I do better and how am I going to witness that? I remembered him. Right. I mean, what do you, what, I mean, I started thinking it was, as I was thinking about that, I was like, if I got called to be a witness for Jesus Christ, like I'm on the stands at court and what am I going to say?
And it just led me down this whole rabbit hole of, I could say this, I mean, and then if it was like, no, what has he done for you personally? You know, the, you know, how people watch the Tubi movies that are shot on an Android. Um, I've watched a couple of those myself, but, um, just, you know, you have the cross, the person cross examining, what has he done for you?
Or, you know, and I just was like, I could say this and just started in my mind, what would I be able to witness? And [00:35:00] ultimately, were you at sacrament on time? That's good. I love it. Yeah. I'm writing all this down. Oh, ladies. Thank you so much. Um, oh my gosh, I cannot believe how I am feeling the spirit. My mind is being flooded with so many thoughts.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. So let's do this. Then in the next segment, we're going to continue our discussion of a celebrated dwelling place. We're actually going to discover that there's a certain way we can walk to create a celebrated dwelling place. We'll do that next.
Segment 5
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Okay, this is fun. We've kind of already talked about it a little bit. Shahna, you introduced this concept, but when people come to our church, what's the specific wording that's on the sign posted on our building? Visitors. Welcome. Yes. Nice visitors. Welcome. Okay, so the church then is our collective home.
It's where our ward family meets hopefully to celebrate, hopefully to laugh, hopefully to eat good food and maybe watch the Super Bowl together. I don't know, but to for sure, to create memories. And the building is where we meet. And so here's my question now, if that is the truth about church and a celebrated dwelling place.
How would someone describe then your home? How would someone describe the church or the ward that you belong to if they come? Uh, I think for me that one is a harder one. Tell me why. Just because this is going to sound bad and I can't make it sound good. And I think that there will be people out there that resonate with this.
Um, when you live in Utah, especially, I don't know if it's all of Utah because I've really only lived in Utah County. Um, Since I've been in Utah and really specifically Provo, um, have not even lived in Orem. So that just gives you some context. But, um, growing up in California, my ward family was my family.
Like they were the people that if something happened. Whether it was a blood family member or, uh, a spiritual family member from church, we all just kind of showed up for each other. And if it was something that happened in your personal family, your biological family, then the church family would show up.
And if it's something that happened in the church family, your biological family shows up, whether they're LDS or not. And, um, just by virtue of, I love you and you love these people. And, um, Utah is not that for me. So, in my ward, I would say that we're friendly, we're just, we're not friends. Now, there are some people that, like, if there's ever a situation, my ward will show up.
There are some people that I, I am friends with, but if it is just on a, on a ward level, like, you know, they have the linger longers and all of that, we just don't. This is a great thing for us to reflect on. Go ahead, Shawna. Well, I, I personally just think that ward families are sort of the genius of our faith tradition because, you know, if you look at, if you have, and not living in Utah, I have a lot of friends of other faiths and they choose where they go to church based upon the people.
Like they're choosing to go to church because it's their neighbors or their friends. Whereas we're kind of organized. Based on geography. And so I always think of it like, um, the scriptures are sort of the textbook, like how to be Christ like, but living in words is how we, it's kind of like the lab. So maybe scriptures is the lecture, but living in a ward family with people that sometimes might even be a little bit hard or you don't get them, you don't jive with them or whatever, but you're going to serve with them in callings, you're going to be called to serve them in callings.
And it's like, that is where we really probably have the most opportunity to. Really do this stuff in the scriptures. Yeah, does that make sense? It does. I like how you called it the lab It's absolutely a lab. There might be some mistakes made Things might blow up, you know in a lab, but at the same time I'll say I have been in wards before that when we felt prompted to move it was Heart wrenching because we loved that ward like it was family like they really truly were, you know, family that took care of us [00:40:00] through difficult times and, um, celebrated with us, you know, wonderful things.
And I, I know that that can also be a really rich part of being an award family. For sure. Well, let's go to section 20 and read verse 68 and 69 because these two verses, as I was reading them, it really kind of shook me a little bit and made me think, what am I doing to make my ward a celebrated dwelling place?
And what does it look like? So let's read these two verses. And Shahna, can you please read 68 and 69? Yes. Thanks. The duty of the members after they are received by baptism, the elders or priests are to have a sufficient time to expound all things concerning the Church of Christ to their understanding previous to their partaking of the sacrament and being confirmed by the laying on of the hands of the elders so that all things may be done in order.
And the members shall manifest before the church and also before the elders by a godly walk and conversation that they are worthy of it, that there may be works and faith agreeable to the holy scriptures, walking in holiness before the Lord. Thank you. Let's highlight in 69, a godly walk and conversation.
Tell me what that looks like you too. Well, you know, I thought about this long and hard and I, this is what I kind of couldn't, couldn't get out of my head. I'm 5'2 and I'm married to somebody who's 6'1. Wow. And, um, so just by virtue of our stature, whenever we're walking together, it's very common that I'm kind of walking behind my husband.
I can't keep up with him unless. I'm holding hands with them and then we, it, it, it forces me to kind of. Lengthen my stride and to walk at a little bit faster pace, you know, and so I thought about that. And when I, this idea of a godly walk, walking with God, that when I'm doing that, I'm having to work a little bit harder.
My expectations might need to be a little bit higher. I noticed when I walk with my husband, because I'm trying to keep up. My heart rate even goes up a little bit. My heart's more involved in. The process of walking. And I think that's true of just when I'm, when I'm feeling like I'm walking with God, just the bar is higher and my heart is more involved in that process.
And so that was, that was kind of where my, I'm trying to keep pace, you know, Oh, I like that. And holding hands, holding hands with the Lord. Right. Oh, that's my trick I use so that he's not walking up ahead of me. Um, you know, I just hold hands with him, which he likes. So. Well, and do you think maybe it slows his pace a little bit too to meet you where you are?
Probably. Yes. Like, I love all the analogies there that the Lord will meet you where you are. He'll walk at your pace. If you are willing to walk a godly walk. Right. Yes. Oh, Tammy, what are your thoughts? For me, when I think about a godly walk, it feels very exciting, but also scary because you know, you're walking into a new territory.
I mean, God is never, God don't really take us on walks where it's, it's, uh, familiar. We don't get to do the familiar thing, the thing that I know how to do in my sleep. And so, um, when I think about a godly walk and a godly conversation, I know it's about to get uncomfortable. Okay. And just to try to find comfort in that discomfort.
Oh, I like that. Me too. It's mostly this idea, comfort in the discomfort. I read and Shahna, I'd love to know your thoughts on this because I read recently a couple of articles that have kind of come up on my feed, which is we're currently right now experiencing an epidemic of loneliness. Is that true?
Absolutely. I, I read it weeks ago and then I was at church and I thought, Oh my gosh, like I think so many of us here, like we got up, we got dressed, we came to church, but I think we're all just really lonely. I don't know why it makes me so emotional. I just, I feel like we're missing something at church.
Like, I don't feel like it's always a celebrated dwelling place because we get to church, we do the sacrament and then as soon as it's over, everybody walks to their classes and everyone's in a hurry and we got to get there and we got to get the lesson plan and taught. And I feel like there's so little time to connect.
Human soul to soul, like I miss that. I've only had it a couple times in my life and then on my mission, I remember I felt like my ward was my home when I lived in Missouri. [00:45:00] Oh, I felt like that was my family because my, my family lived in Utah. Those are my people. I feel that maybe that's why I always say I'm from Missouri.
I didn't live there. I've lived in Utah longer than I lived in Missouri, but my roots. And where I felt loved and connected and protected. I long for that again in my ward. I want my ward to be a celebrated dwelling place where we, like, I almost wish that when sacrament was over, they'd say, don't start the lesson for 20 minutes in Sunday school.
Everybody mingle, find your people and talk connect. Like as a therapist, what are your thoughts on this idea of this epidemic of loneliness and how can a celebrated dwelling place fix that? We all just need community. We all need to find places where we can commune with each other, and we just don't have as many places that we do that anymore, and I'm not trying to vilify, you know, devices or, you know, social media, but to a certain extent, there's a lot of research that indicates that we're trying to use that to tell ourselves that That is connection, that is community, and to a certain extent it is.
But it's a really poor substitute for the real thing, which is looking somebody in the eye, you know, smiling, you know, feeling somebody hold your hand or put their arm around you. Those are the things that really conjure up this whole idea of feeling seen, and that, that's really what we're missing. We're just not connecting with people as, as, as much as we used to.
It's just a society that we're, it's the soup we're swimming in. Oh, I like that. Maybe I just miss weekly relief society. Maybe the two hour block every other has been kicking me. Amen. I think we need to go back to three hour church. You heard it here first. Yes. That's true. I do. I miss being with women every Sunday.
Yeah. I love it. Yeah, it's really true. I mean, we just, we, we know what it felt like before and it's been hard to, to have that void. Um, so we're, we're going to have to be creative and find other ways to do that. Yes, there it is. I love how you said that we do have to be creative and find other ways to do that.
And maybe that is making our own home celebrated dwelling places where we can then invite people in. Yeah. Can I say something else too, um, that I was, I was thinking about with the whole, uh, godly walk. It's an, it's something that we're actively doing. It's to walk is to be active, like that's an action word.
And so, um, it's something that we should be actively doing and what that looks like to you, it's going to depend on the relationship that you have with God and how you see, you Wow. I think you're right. Hmm. Thank you. Thank you to both of you for this discussion. I really appreciate it. I appreciate the safe space to share how we were feeling about that.
So it's, it's a great challenge for all of us to think about, especially when you go to church this Sunday. Like, what are you individually doing to have a godly walk and conversation and create a celebrated dwelling place? If it says all visitors welcome, let's make sure people in the ward don't feel like visitors.
That we really do feel like, and I love how you said this at the very beginning and I wrote it down, that you come as a guest, but you leave as friends. Maybe that's my goal every Sunday. So wow. Thank you. Okay. So let's do this in the next segment. Then we're going to move on to another idea and we're going to discover something else that the Lord has set up for his home.
And then I'm going to ask my guests why they even think we need this in his house. We'll do that next.
Segment 6
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Let's turn to doctrine and covenant section 21 and we're going to find out what the Lord has set up for his house. And I want to know why you two think it even matters. So section 21, we're going to read verses one and two, and then verses four and five. Here we go. Shahna, will you please read verses one and two?
Yes. Behold, there shall be a record kept among you, and in it thou shall be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ. Being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof and to build it up unto the most holy faith.
And Tammy, where were you at four and five? Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all the words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me. For his word ye shall receive. As if from mine own mouth in all patience and faith. [00:50:00] Thank you.
Go back to verse one when it says, thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, meaning Joseph Smith. He will be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ and elder of the church. And then when you go to verse four, where for meaning the church, thou shalt get heave unto all his words, meaning Joseph Smith.
and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them. And then verse five, for his word ye shall receive it from mine own mouth in all patience and faith. He's setting up this idea of having a prophet. And so I asked you to think about this because why would an all knowing and all powerful God even need a prophet in his house?
I, I would think, I mean, for several reasons, but for one, I think that there are times where the spirit testifies something to me before the person, like I've, I've known a couple of times before I've known that I was going to get a calling before the bishop even spoke to me. And um, I would think out of, you know, the mouth of two or three witnesses.
Um, and I think that, I mean, I think that that's one reason because, I mean, God is definitely, God can definitely touch who he, whom he wants to touch, but, um, sometimes our self doubt in our, the way that we speak to ourselves, it, um, we can talk ourselves out of the thing. But I think that when there is a witness that says, You know, this is what God told me to tell you.
If somebody tells me something that God, I know that it's a private conversation between me and God and you come and tell me that I know that I know that, you know, something extra, either you're a psychic, a clairvoyant or, um, or you, God told you something that was for me. I'm curious to know as converts to the church, was the idea of a prophet new to both of you?
Well, I knew about prophets in the Old Testament, but, you know, translating that to the current times, I didn't have any idea that that was something that we still had. And it, it just makes so much sense to me that you just need one person that is the main owner, you know, I think the Lord needs owners and he needs stewards.
He needs a lot of stewards, but he needs one person that's just going to take this job and own it. Yeah. Um, and for me, I, I grew up in a church where you did have certain people that we would call prophets. I think here it's, it's organized different. It's a little different, but I grew up in a church where, you know, you believe that there's certain people that that spoke to God.
Yeah. Well, and then there's, there are so many blessings that come by way of following the prophet, which is what's being set up here. In fact, verse six is a specific lesson. I thought this was kind of cool. Verse six says, for by doing these things, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. Yay. And the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you and cause the heavens to shake for your good and his name's glory.
That's just by listening to the word of the prophet, which is pretty cool blessings. And You know, when we talk about following the prophet, we sing the song, follow the prophet. Do either of you have a story in your life where you had to follow the prophet and what that looked like? You know, I, I thought about this long and hard, Tammy.
Um, I look back on a time in my life. There was, uh, an episode for about six years where my husband was very ill. And I was like, In fact, for five years and 10 months, he was very, very ill. He ended up having a surgery and he was like the third person in, you know, the U S to have it. And it was, it, it, it was, it was an amazing, miraculous recovery.
But during those five years and 10 months, um, you know, I was really. Nervous about what my future looked like, what my future looked like for my children. I wasn't really sure if this was going to be something that would take his life. Like it was scary, scary stuff. And there was this video and I bet both of you familiar with it.
Um, where elder Holland talks about his experience. It was back then we call them Mormon messages, but his experience when he was a young father and he's, his car keeps breaking down. It's the video from his talk on High Priest of Good Things to Come. At the very end of that Mormon message, he would always say, you keep walking.
You keep trying and believing. It will be all right in the end. And there was a good six months. I'm not even overstating this. I watched that every single [00:55:00] day. And that was kind of the only few minutes of the day where I felt hope that it was going to be all right, no matter what happened. Um, and so when I think about.
Men that we sustain as prophets, seers and revelators. I really think about that time in my life, how elder Holland and his just hope filled words were kind of what I clung to for, for years. And, um, I'm so grateful, you know, that I had that as a resource. It really, it really was what got me through that.
that hard time. Oh, I think that story is brilliant. That's great. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Listen, for those of you listening, we're going to include the link to that video in our show notes. So make sure you go there because you're right. It's one of the best videos that he's in that talk. Oh, love it. Yeah. If you need a dose of hope, he's got one for you.
And that he really does. Awesome. Thank you. You got anything Tamu? Um, I think that when you're, for a lot of, um, Black people, specifically African American people, when you're talking about, uh, following the prophet and, um, holy, I mean, I have to take into account that some of the things that the prophets have said about Black people.
And also because I am a convert coming here specifically from another church where, I mean, I was at church, what? At least for at least eight hours every Sunday and hearing, you know, the, in the scriptures, it talks about putting your trust in flesh. And so for me, it's just that, um, even as a, as a young convert, um, going home and singing.
Follow the prophet. Mommy was like, no, we not, um, why, why are all these songs about men? You know, we sing about Jesus and, but following the prophet looks to me kind of like what I explained. And I think that the Lord knows us in the Lord. There's so much grace there. I think that the Lord knows me well enough.
To know that if someone tells me to do something because God told them to tell me to do it that, um, I'm going to know first early on. And, and, you know, when I was a young adult, just graduated from high school, I would hear these stories about these missionaries and they didn't speak the language and then they went someplace and God, you know, put a spirit on them and they said.
We're able to understand the language and they bore their testimony in this language. And I believe that because I heard it so many times. And then I got this calling that I should never have gotten, but except for the, the counselor, it wasn't from the Bishop directly. It was from the counselor. He extended it.
And he said, you know, God told me to give you this calling. And I was like, Oh, I'm about to learn to play music. I'm about to learn music. And because I thought that I was going to get the gift, you know, based on what. People had said, and, um, and when the bishop asked me. How long I'd been playing, you know, do you play an instrument?
How long have you been playing? I said, no, I don't. And he said, then why did you say yes to the calling? It was like, like I had already gotten sustained. I was going to get set apart and, uh, did not. I said, because I thought I was going to get the gift and I thought God was going to give it to me. And he just like, it was embarrassing for them and I didn't get that calling.
I got called into primary. So they gave it to somebody else. He was like, you don't play an instrument. I sure don't know, but I'm ready. And it was a lesson to me, you know, to, um, to stay in communication with God, but also hopefully my leaders know me well enough to know that I'm not trying to be resistant, but I just.
Yeah. I think that's putting out that puts a lot of pressure on the prophets too. Let me say this. I appreciate your transparency and your willingness to talk about how this comes from a place of pain. And I want to recognize that for you. Absolutely. Because it does for so many members of our faith. What I love about you Tamu is going back to what you said when it comes to the sacramental prayers and that's your witness.
The fact that you're here. And that you stay to me is a testament of your faith. A thousand percent your faith, especially in things and parts of this gospel that don't make sense to you. And I love that. I think that right there is a perfect example of following the prophet because you're following him in faith and it doesn't make sense and you can absolutely question that [01:00:00] and it can be painful for you and, and I, your example is helpful for so many of us.
So thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks. Bye. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, that was a great discussion. So here's the last thing we're going to talk about then. In our last segment, we have one more thing to discover, and this might be a little harsh, but it's what we need to understand to have a celebrated dwelling place.
I'm really looking forward to this answer because I want to know what Tamu is going to say. I do too. Tamu, when you were a kid, okay, both of you, what would happen if you talk back to your parents? Well, for me, it was like, depending on what I said, No matter what I said, talking back was definitely going to.
Get you a vacation. I'll say that like you were getting slapped into next week. So you could actually come back. If your parents played the lottery, you could tell them the lottery numbers, cause you have already been to next weekend. That's what would have happened to me. Oh, I loved it. That exceeded all my expectations.
What about you, Shahna? If you talk back to your parents, what would happen? I, I honestly, not that I was a perfect child, but I was raised by a single mother for most of my growing up years. And I, I. I think I saw how hard parenting was all by herself that I don't know that I ever did talk back for sure.
If I had, I would have definitely gotten a punishment of some kind, whether that was like no TV or, um, you can't have friends over, but that was just not going to be tolerated. Same in my house, not tolerated. You do not talk back. I had a sibling who would and I always like, well, how come she gets to talk back?
I'm the oldest. If I tried that, forget about it. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, I want you to be kind of thinking about this idea if you talked back because there's actually that's part of one of his rules or regulations in making us a celebrated dwelling place. So let's go to Doctrine and Covenants section 22.
This entire section, it's very short, it's basically the question was asked by, to Joseph Smith by people who had already been baptized as a member of another faith. And they came and said, do we have to be rebaptized? Or can we just accept the baptism we have? And so he's very clear about what the rule is.
And so in verse two, he says, Wherefore, although a man should be baptized a hundred times, it availeth him nothing. For you cannot enter in at the straight gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works. Highlight dead works. And that means without the power of the priesthood. You need the priesthood in order for it to work.
And so that's why, yes, you do have to get rebaptized. And then the Lord ends this with verse four. We read that for us, Tamu. Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate as I have commanded. And seek not to counsel, sorry, and seek not to counsel your God. Why'd you laugh? Because it was just like, when you say amen to something, it's the end of the conversation, right?
So it was like, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen. Immediately. Don't counsel. Don't look. Don't even ask. Stop asking. Do it. Cause I command it. And seek not to counsel your God. Amen. Oh my gosh. I'm writing immediately right next to that. so much. Oh, that is awesome. I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago, and I forget how people talk outside of our church, like people who are members of other churches.
And I'm not even kidding. You know, I like when you're talking to your friends and you say, you know what I'm saying, girl? Instead of saying that he was like, every time he would make a point, he would say a man, a man, a man. And then at one point, just, I said, I was like, yeah, he was like, no, say a man. I'm not saying a man because I don't agree with you, but also he was like, no, say a man or else we done with the conversation.
And I was like, oh my God said, a man. And he was like, so, and then it was just like very casual, like, and so the other day when I was talking to her on the phone, a man, a man. Okay, amen. Like, it's just like, and this is how, like, outside of our church, he's very steeped in his religion, but Every time he says something, amen, amen means agreement.
I don't agree with what you're saying. I still do that too. I still, sometimes it'll be like, amen. And people look at me like what in the world, but it's just like, it's, it's the way. I'm programmed when I agree with something. Yeah, I like that. Can I get an amen? I'll say that. Can I get an amen? If I'm just talking to my girlfriend or my guy friend on the phone, like we're just having a regular conversation.
I don't need to say amen to everything you say. Stop it. Amen. Amen. So we [01:05:00] read this. Seek not to counsel your God. Can I get an amen? Amen. Amen. So this is his instruction to us. I think sometimes this verse gets overlooked. He's like, listen, here's my rule and here are all my rules. And here's how we're going to make my house a celebrated dwelling place.
After all that we know now, seek not to counsel your God. We're going to read Christofferson. It's from his April 2022 conference talk called our relationship with God. And let's hear what he has to say about this. Shana, will you please read the first paragraph and then Tamu the second? Yes, it truly is folly for us with our mortal myopia to presume to judge God.
To think, for example, I'm not happy, so God must be doing something wrong. To us, his mortal children in a fallen world, who know so little of past, present, and future, he declares, All things are present with me, for I know them all. Jacob wisely cautions. Seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand.
For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy over all his works. Some misunderstand the promises of God to mean that obedience to him yields specific outcomes on a fixed schedule. They might think, if I diligently serve a full time mission, God will bless me with a happy marriage and children.
If I refrain from doing schoolwork on the Sabbath, God will bless me with good grades. Or if I pay tithing, God will bless me with that job I've been wanting. If life doesn't fall out precisely this way, according to the expected timetable, they may feel betrayed by God, but things are not so mechanical in the divine economy.
We ought not to think of God's plan as a cosmic vending machine, where we, one, seek a desired blessing, two, insert the required sum of good works, and three, the order is promptly delivered. Thank you. Just kind of jump in and share some of your thoughts on that quote. Um, when I, when I read it earlier, I, I think that we have a God that has grace and that he understands like that there's this understanding for not that we're can't counseling God or, you know, trying to change an outcome.
But I think that as, um, as children of a loving father, we can say, like, I mean, I know that I've said before. I've seen something and I've said, you know, God did it for this person. So definitely he could do it for me. And it's not a demand that he do it for me, but it is kind of me saying, God, you could do this.
Let's do it. And not, I think that sometimes, you know, I've, I've heard, you know, you can't You can't tell God, um, what you want or what he can do for you. And I'm just like, if God is a parent, he knows that we're going to try to tell him what to do for us. He knows us like we have children now we know how children act.
And so, but that's the benefit of being a parent is that ultimately my kids may want something, but I, I'm going to choose, you know. what, what I'm doing for them or what I give them based on what they can handle. I love that. I, if it's okay, I think I'm going to take a page from Tammu's book. I, one of the things I love about her is she keeps it real.
And, um, when I think, when I think about seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand, I think about an experience I had decades, multiple decades ago. When I was assigned one time, one time to be a visit, we back then we call them visiting teachers, but I was assigned to be a visiting teacher to somebody.
There's really no other way to say it. She did not like me and it was. So hard. It was so hard to go and take a message. And back then, I don't know if you remember, but we were really encouraged to go into their home and take a message every time and like, really serve them. And it was so hard. And I remember saying to my husband, maybe I should just go to the Relief Society president and tell her that you should.
She messed up when she made this assignment. It's surely not supposed to be me teaching her and my husband told me he said Hey, I know she prayed pretty hard about those assignments though. So maybe you should pray about it and see if What the Lord wants for you and for two solid years I prayed every single month when it was time to do my [01:10:00] visiting teaching.
I'm like, Father, don't you think it would be so much better if somebody was called that she really liked? It would be so much easier for her to feel the spirit and all these things. And every single month, the answer was the same. Nope. You're exactly, you're doing exactly what. I want you to be doing. And I look back on an experience 20 years ago, whatever it was.
And I think that was one of the biggest learning experiences of my life, because I learned that in that experience, he taught me that I can love people who don't love me, that I can like people that maybe don't really even like me. And I look back at that. I'm so grateful now. Um, that I had that experience and that I didn't just go to the Relief Society president and say, this has got to be wrong inspiration, but that I really tried to understand what he was trying to do with that assignment.
I love so much that your story didn't end with and now we're the very best friends in the whole entire world now and and she gave me her kidney like I'm so glad that the Russell is real and that you were like, it just taught me I can love people who don't like me. That was so. I mean, that is a celebrated dwelling place right there.
You did the calling. That is a godly walk. If I've ever heard of a godly walk, girl, wow, amen. Let's amen that story. Yes. Amen. You should have said, you're supposed to say, amen. I can love people that don't love me. Amen. And we would have said, amen. Amen. Can I get an amen? Yes, you can. Wow. Yes. That was a great story.
Oh girl. Thank you. I have only, I have only broken out in hives twice in my entire life, and one was when my mother-in-law was coming to visit one time, , but another time was when I was sitting outside getting ready to go visiting teaching to this lady. Wow. And I broke out in hives all over my body.
Mm-hmm. You can edit that if you want to, but it's the truth. Oh, no. No, we won't. And you still went. I still went, that is a Godly walk. I mean, that is so cool. It just sums up everything we've talked about a celebrated dwelling place where we can laugh and we can make memories and we can celebrate each other and mourn and not be liked.
Yeah, that's okay. You know what though, Tammy actually, and show up and go to church. Actually, even in this story, like Shahna was the celebrated dwelling place. She herself Was that dedicated dwelling place like Yeah. She became that for herself. Oh, that's so good. Oh, Tim, you're so sweet. You're gonna make me cry.
It's the truth. I got chills. Like, I'm just like, you be, look, you taught me something because I'm like, if they don't like me, I hate them. So.
Well, it was a two year process. Let me just say, God, please don't do me like that because when I hear a story and then God will call me to teach somebody that he know I don't like and I know they don't like me. So don't do that to me. Don't test me like that. Oh, I love you both so much. Oh my gosh. That was so cool.
What a great discussion today. That's the end of our discussion, you guys. So okay, do this now. That was, I have so many notes. Um, gather your thoughts and just tell me as you were discussing today, like what did the spirit teach you? What eternal truth were you reminded of or did you learn? Well, I will never forget the idea of celebrating my Christ centered chaos in my life.
Mm hmm. I love that idea. I really do. Oh, that was good. I would say that, uh, this gym just right here at the end, I can love people who don't love me. That is a desire that I can live up to that I can, that I can start to try to live up to. I liked so much our discussion, Tamu, when you went back to the sacramental prayers, um, to witness, to always remember him and You know, and what does that look like?
Like being to sacrament on time. It's a way to remember my, I liked how you connected that. I thought that was so much fun. And then, I mean, Shahna, I really appreciated when I asked you from a therapist perspective and just the idea of taking the sacrament and saying, what am I doing well? Cause I think so often I'm in that space of what did I mess up this week?
Forgive me. Now I'm going to set a goal to be better. And I'm really going to try and think about in that time, like, what am I doing? Well, Cause I don't think I do that enough. So yeah, none of us do. No, I [01:15:00] love that. Self reflection taking the time to do that in sacrament. So, well, thanks ladies. That's the end of our discussion.
I love you both. Love you too. Wow. That's it. My cup's been filled. It's been awesome. Amen. Great. Thank you, Shahna. Amen. And amen. Again. Amen. Amen. Well, what did you learn? Go to our group on Facebook or Instagram and share what you've learned. And you can ask questions, which I love to answer. And then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we post a question from this discussion, which I think we already know what it is from our discussion.
So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're gonna have links to all of the references and a transcript of this whole discussion, so go check it out.
The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Desert Bookshelf+ original, brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible study group participants were Shahna Argyle and Tamu Smith. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday.
Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that you really are God's favorite.