The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Who do you trust? Like really trust? Has it always been the same person or has it changed over time? Oh, I know. Do you have more than one person you can trust? What I really want to know is how can you trust them? What quality or qualities do they even possess? Be thinking about this because I'm going to ask this question again and I want to know your answer.

Nephi was very clear on who he could trust and as we study second Nephi chapters three through five, he lets us know who it is and why. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.

I'm your host, Tammy. Use a lack hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description. It's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study just like my friends, Ryan and Mary young. Hi guys. I loved meeting you. Thanks for listening to the podcast.

Okay. Now, another really cool thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. And so it's always a little bit different each week. And today I am so excited to introduce you to our guests. Now we have Sharmaine Howell. Hi, Shar.

[00:01:09] Sharmaine Howell: Hey, Tammy. Good to be here.

[00:01:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Shar from Minnesota. Now we all know and love you so much and we cannot wait to introduce our guest.

So this is who's joining us today. Her name is Kalo Latu. And Kalo is, oh my gosh, we had so much fun talking about this because her degree is in piano performance and she can play the organ. And for those of you who've listened to the podcast, you know Shar and I shared that calling for a long time. Shar did much better than I.

And no, we shared the calling, but we can't play the organ , we kalo can. Hi, how are you?

[00:01:41] Kalo Latu: Hello. This is so fun. .

[00:01:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, for those of our listeners who we've never met, you tell us a little bit about yourself.

[00:01:47] Kalo Latu: I am a musician. I teach and I perform and then I do lots of other things. Okay. Like. Enjoy really good food and I love K dramas. I love books.

[00:02:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh, I love food so much.

[00:02:04] Sharmaine Howell: Did you say Korean dramas?

[00:02:06] Kalo Latu: Yes. They're the best.

[00:02:10] Sharmaine Howell: Oh my gosh, I think we're best friends already.

[00:02:13] Kalo Latu: I love Korean dramas. They are. I've never even heard of it. Oh my goodness. Okay. Korean dramas are, are the best things. on any of the streaming platforms right now.

They, they are very rarely in English. You have to read the subtitles, but the best way to watch them is with the original actors, voices, and then the English subtitles underneath. There are some streaming services like Netflix that will try and dub a voice, English speaking voice. Don't listen to those because the artistry is in the inflection.

of the voice in the original language. And they are, they are the best. Some of the best writing is going on in Korea right now. And they're romantic and they're funny and. Dramatic. Drama is true. Yeah. The romance, it's cute and it's hopeful and it's delightful. It's just charming. Oh my goodness. And it's clever.

It's clever. It's, it's, uh, it's sort of like British. It's think Jane Austen with a different, with an Asian flair to it that is universal because I'm not Asian and I love it. I totally get the humor, I get the vibe.

[00:03:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh, I'm in. Okay, I'm gonna have to go check that out. That is so fantastic. And Kalo, are you married?

Are you single? Do you have kids? What's your story?

[00:03:42] Kalo Latu: I am single and I have no children. And I've never been married. Well, hello.

[00:03:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We love a single sister. This makes me very happy. Oh my gosh. Maybe this would be a good discussion. Okay. Well, if any of you want to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and see their pictures in our show notes, which are found at ldsliving.

com slash Sunday on Monday. So go check that out. All right, everyone, grab your scriptures and whether you are studying alone with family or friends, let's dig into second Nephi chapters three through five. Okay. You sue right out of the gates. Tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you read these chapters?

[00:04:18] Kalo Latu: I, um, really loved verses five. Second Nephi chapter three, verse five. And I love the last few sentences where it says in the spirit of power, unto the bringing of them out of darkness unto light, out of captivity unto freedom. And I love that because for me, that is the selling point. Of the gospel of Christ, right?

Is that it can, it can mean the difference between captivity and freedom. It can mean the difference between darkness and light in your life, having purpose, not having purpose. So I used to often think. When I would hear prophets in conference say, share the gospel, every mission, every member of missionary, I used to think, no, not me,

[00:05:19] Sharmaine Howell: not me. Right.

[00:05:20] Kalo Latu: Yeah. Right. I would think, oh, that's awkward. And I don't want to be obnoxious, but you know, if other people have pleasant ways of Sharing the gospel with non member friends and good for them. I don't. Right. Right. Oh, I'm the same as you think there was a, for me at that point, there wasn't a point of, uh, interest that I thought would be immediately interesting if my non member friends, but as I've gotten older and become more aware of the circumstances.

Um, the breadth and variety of circumstances that people experience in life, words like bringing you from darkness out of darkness into light and out of captivity into freedom. They have a whole different meaning. And so now I feel more confident to bring up the church because I can speak to things that I know are meaningful to the people I'm speaking to who don't know anything about the church.

[00:06:32] Sharmaine Howell: I know I love, and I love the part that you pointed out specifically, and that one little spot that it says, yea, out of hidden darkness, I thought that was, I like circled that because sometimes we don't know we're in the dark. It's hidden from us, you know, out of hidden darkness, we are brought out of captivity into freedom.

We don't even know what we need. . And then we find it in the gospel and we're like, Oh my gosh. That's bringing me into the light. I didn't even know I was in the dark. Right?

[00:06:59] Kalo Latu: So there's a, there's a, I love, I'm glad you brought that up because it made me think of a talk that Elder Corbridge gave. He's an, uh, former 70.

Yeah. And he gave it at BYU and the title of the talk is Stand Forever. One of the best

[00:07:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: landmark talk. Oh, the best.

[00:07:18] Kalo Latu: Oh, I, that talk is engraving on my heart. Right. And. And in there, he talks about how he makes mention of this. Some people will say you should be true to your beliefs, but but what happens if your beliefs are not true?

What happens if your belief is not correct? You can only be as good as what you know, right? And I love, I love this because this is something that resonates with me and that I value. I place great value on truth. I'd rather have truth than be coddled or made to feel good because what feels good to me is to know the truth.

That's what feels good to me. So I When I read these, when I read the scripture, and it says, I have a way of having, helping you know, and discern what is true, what is not. That to me is, is just, it's everything. It's everything.

[00:08:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh.

[00:08:24] Sharmaine Howell: It kind of goes along with something that stood out to me while I was studying, and I love your thoughts, Kalo.

It's so great. Um, in 2 Nephi chapter 4 verse 35, um, this really jumped out at me and it says, yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Kind of like what you were saying, finding truth. God will give it to us. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss, therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee.

He's, you know, and as I read that, I thought, man, that sounds a lot like probably what Joseph read in James 1 5, and he's probably translating this thinking, I get this. I get that. Like, dude, I relate to you. We have the same experience, you know, and it's that seeking truth and that God will give it to us.

You know, if we're going through hard things in our struggles and our wildernesses, if we're in the, in darkness and we're hidden and we don't know we need the truth, God will give us truth all the time.

[00:09:20] Kalo Latu: And I love that. Gosh, powerful. And, and in verse seven, to go along with this chapter three, verse seven, at the end, it says, um, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants, which I have made with thy fathers.

Knowledge of the covenants, right? I love this idea of a record being kept to then teach those who come after you. These are the covenants. This is how you interact with God. This is how you access the power of God. And this is how you access the blessings of covenants. It, I just find so much value in that because we live in an age of information.

Yeah. Also to sort of reference elder Corbridge, he said, we live in an age of. All kinds of information, misinformation, disinformation, it goes on and on and on, right? And, and that is, I think, truly the defining characteristic of our time is there's so much information out there. And it can be easy, and referring to your hidden, hidden darkness, it can be so easy to not, to not know.

Right. And, and actually to think that you're on the right track and then maybe when you've gone a little bit farther than you've intended to discover that putting yourself in danger, right, to be made aware that and to have trust that you will have, you will have the guidance that you need to keep you on the right track and in the light.

Oh, my gosh, in the path of freedom, because it is so easy to be held captive

[00:11:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: and to stay in that darkness, especially if I didn't, I like how you pointed out that hidden Shar. That was so good. Okay. So let's do this then. I mean, this is crazy. This is just what the Holy Ghost taught you guys. And as you're talking.

There's not a single one of us that wasn't feeling the spirit. As you pointed out, some pretty significant things from this versus. And what I think is so cool is this whole segment is going to be about this idea of hidden darkness and covenants and truth seeking. And so I am so excited to jump into these chapters and discover what it is that Lehi has to say to his son, Joseph.

These are his final words. Lehi is about to pass away. But before he does, here's what he wants us to know. And so in the next segment, we're going to jump into his final words to Joseph and continue this discussion. We'll do that next.

Segment 2

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[00:12:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. I have something to show you guys for this next segment. Maybe you'll know what this is. Maybe you won't. It's one of the greatest inventions of our lifetime. Oh, yeah. What is it? Shark. I love it. You're like, uh huh. Oh yeah. Tell the listeners what it is.

[00:12:21] Sharmaine Howell: Water balloon filler upper. It fills up 50 water balloons at a time on the end of a host ticket.

Where was this one? My

[00:12:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: fingers all day long. Best invention ever. Oh my gosh. Okay. Now I want you to look at this because my question for you is what will happen to the size of these balloons? If we put air or water into them, what happens to the size? They will increase. Very good. They will increase. That is the perfect answer.

Got it. Increase. Okay. Let's connect that word increase to second Nephi chapter three. We're actually going to connect it to a name. This is so cool. Did you notice a name repeated often throughout chapter three? What name was it? Joseph.

Joseph and Moses get repeated a lot. Joseph more than Moses. So I love that. In fact, grab a highlighter and I'm going to give you the verses and I just want you to go really quickly and just highlight the name Joseph. Here we go. Verse one, Joseph, beginning of verse three, Joseph verse four, it said twice in verse five.

You see it again. And you go to verse six, verse seven, and they're at the beginning. Verse 14. Verse 16. We have it. Then you go to verse 22 and then verse 25. Okay. There's all these names. Joseph, Joseph, Joseph, Joseph. Now this is what is so cool about this name is it is a very important name in Hebrew. In Hebrew it's Yosef.

It's spelled Y O S E F and here's what it means. He will add or increase. Oh, isn't that awesome? He will add or increase. Now there are many Joseph spoken of in this chapter. And we're going to find out what Joseph adds or increases or makes bigger. There are six things in this chapter. So in this first segment, we're going to cover three things that he will increase or make bigger.

So let's go to second Nephi chapter three and Kalo. I'm so grateful you brought up verse five because this is the verse we want to talk about. So Kalo, I want you to read verse five, but before you do, we need to know this. So Lehi starts talking to his son Joseph in verses one, two, and three. And then he introduces us to Joseph of Egypt in verse four, five, and six.

That's what we're talking about now is Joseph of Egypt. So when you hear the name Joseph, think of him, the one whose brother sold him and put him, you know, yeah, the whole story we saw in the Old Testament. Okay. That one. I got it. Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Absolutely. Okay. Kalo, read verse five for us.

[00:15:04] Kalo Latu: Wherefore, Joseph truly sired our day, and he obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of his loins, the Lord God would raise up a righteous branch into the house of Israel, not the Messiah, but a branch, which was to be broken off, nevertheless, to be remembered forever. In the covenants of the Lord that the Messiah should be made manifest unto them in the latter days in the spirit of power unto the bringing of them out of darkness unto light.

Yay. Out of hidden darkness and out of captivity into freedom.

[00:15:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Let's highlight in verse five, where it says that he would raise up a righteous branch unto the house of Israel, highlight righteous branch unto the house of Israel. He is going to increase. The posterity or the descendants of Joseph, who is us, you can cross reference this direct blessing to Genesis chapter 49 verse 22, where here is the blessing given to Joseph from his father.

And he's saying, Joseph is a fruitful bow. Even a fruitful bough by a well, whose branches run over the wall. And he's pretty, he's saying like the people of Joseph, that's the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, and they will increase in size and they will get big and they will become members and part of this covenant that the Lord gave to all of his people.

And then I love how Kalo, you taught us about this. Spirit of power coming out of darkness and hidden darkness. That was so powerful. So that's the first thing. So I put, I bracketed offers five and I put number one, he'll increase posterity or us. Okay. Here's the second thing. Bracket off versus six through 10.

And here's what the Lord will increase six through 10. This is so powerful. And we're going to read the very end of verse seven. And Kalo, you already did for us. You pointed this out. It's like you knew what we were going to talk about. Holy cow. You knew totally everything. Will you read it again for us?

That part in the end of verse seven.

[00:17:03] Kalo Latu: And unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren, which shall be of great worth unto them, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers.

[00:17:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So to the outside of our six, the thing that he will increase are not only the covenants of the fathers, but specifically the saving ordinances.

So we're going to talk about this for just a minute. What are saving ordinances? Here's a really great quote. It's from true to the faith. And Shar, will you read this quote from this defines what saving ordinances are.

[00:17:37] Sharmaine Howell: In True to the Faith, we read an ordinance is a sacred formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood.

The ordinances that are essential to our exaltation are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek priesthood for men, the temple endowment and the marriage ceiling.

[00:17:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So I wrote in my scriptures off to the side those saving ordinances so I could remember and they are again, baptism, confirmation.

Ordination to Thetic priesthood for men, the Temple Endowment, and a marriage ceiling, which I think is interesting because a baby blessing is not a saving ordinance. It's just something really beautiful that we do in our church. So we have these saving ordinances, and I want us to just kind of think about this because God has increased our knowledge of saving ordinances.

And when it comes to your own life, like what? What has a saving ordinance meant to you? Do you have a specific one? You're like, I'm grateful for that one.

[00:18:40] Kalo Latu: I think of baptism and then because you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, right? And that's huge. That's personal revelation. Yeah. So starting from eight, you can know you are taught that you have direct access to God and you don't ever need to be alone.

Eight years old. Yeah. At eight, you can already start practicing how to communicate with God, how to receive answers. And in this day and age where kids at younger and younger ages are more savvy, just because they have so much access to information, right? Can you think of anything better, like any better protection for somebody than to know that they've got a place they can go to?

But they can ask questions. I mean, this is not to discount parents and leaders and members, but it's a safe place. And if they, if people can learn at young ages, pray, and then to learn how to recognize and hear, and then follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost. That's huge. You know, someone once made the comment, what's the greatest tragedy?

This is not someone, Elder Corbridge made the observation. Someone asked him, what's the greatest tragedy that you can experience in life? And people, he listed several answers. He said, yeah, death is awful. There's so many ways to suffer in this world. And then he said this. The worst thing that could happen to a person is to lose the companionship of the spirit.

And I remember when I read that, I thought, uh, I mean, I can think of it, but then you know what? This is what age experience and wisdom will teach you. I don't think he's wrong, right? I don't think he's wrong. I think that to lose access, the, the power that comes from having the Holy Ghost is devastating. And I, I think it is easy to fall into darkness when you don't have the companionship of the Holy Ghost and then you're not in a good place.

[00:21:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What is your earliest memory you have of your experience with the Holy Ghost?

[00:21:14] Kalo Latu: Um, I remember being, I think, around 12. Okay. Oh, actually, no, even earlier than that. So there is a water park near, uh, where I grew up and I went to the water park with, uh, cousins and I am by nature risk averse. But I happen to be with the three cousins that run as fast as they can towards the riskiest, most dangerous stuff.

They love the high, they love, and I, I was by myself and I, I mean, it was either go with them or be by myself cause I didn't know where everyone else had gone. So I, I went with them and there was a slide. I can't even remember what it's called. All I know is it was very unfancy. It just dropped nearly a 90 degree angle and it flattened out.

And so my cousin said, let's do this one. And I said, no way I'm going to fall off that slide. I'm going to die. And then they said, okay, well let's do this one. And it was two intertwining tubes. And then inside it was painted so that you just felt like you were. It made me dizzy, right? Yeah. But between falling off the slide and just being dizzy, I chose dizzy.

And I remember getting down, my cousins were, we went down in a train sort of thing. And I remember going down the first part and I literally thought I was going to die. Like I didn't have words then, but I totally had an anxiety attack. Even though I had cousins right behind me and a cousin right in front of me.

I thought I was going to die. I've never been so scared in my life. And I just started praying, praying like I'm scared. I don't know. I was just praying not to be scared. And I just remember feeling calm. I hit the middle and just felt calm. And, and that's my earliest memory of, of having I'm praying and having the Holy Ghost speak to me, be with me.

Right. And I think ever since then, I've just always known. Yeah.

[00:23:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Like it's such a young, impressionable age that you can go back to that as an adult because as an adult, it's harder to convince us that that's what it is. You would have been like, Oh, well my blood pressure just kind of dropped and baby I was able to be calm.

But yeah, but for you at nine, you're like, no, that was the Holy Ghost. I believe it. As you told that story, I'm like, that was the Holy Ghost.

[00:23:46] Kalo Latu: Oh, there's no, there's no other explanation because, and incidentally. I have never again gone on any slides. I don't do fancy water slides. I do nothing. I do the Provo River when it's two feet deep and I can go out and walk.

[00:24:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Kalo, thank you for sharing that story. That was perfect answer to that one. Um, what about you, Shar? Is there a saving ordinance that is really specific or important to you? Or do you have a Holy Ghost story? I wouldn't want to cut you off if you had one.

[00:24:20] Sharmaine Howell: No, I, it made me think, which I guess it relates to both, but it did make me think of a story when I was about eight, because I was thinking of stories when you said that, and it has to do with, um, the ordination of the priesthood for men, which my dad had the priesthood, and when I was, uh, seven, we went on, um, a, We were on a camping trip and my brother got in an accident and he went unconscious and was in a coma.

And my dad was able to give him a blessing right there, right then. And then he was lifelighted away to the hospital. And um, but just having that ordination, having the priesthood with him right there on the lake and being able to help him in that moment. And I remember sitting, you know, on the beach with my sister and just praying.

And it was that same feeling of like, I was seven years old and I'm like, what's going on, you know, but praying and feeling like this piece of like, it's okay, I don't know what's going on, but it's okay, you know, so having both of those having priesthood in my life has been a huge part of my life and having, you know, a dad and brothers who called the priesthood and can give blessings.

[00:25:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's been a miracle. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that Shar. There's a really cool quote from Elder Bednar. Shar will you read this quote? This is what he had to say about saving ordinances.

[00:25:43] Sharmaine Howell: The ordinances of salvation and exaltation administered in the Lord's restored church constitute authorized channels through which the blessings and power of heaven can flow into our individual lives.

[00:25:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. And I just think back to how you started us all out, Kalo, I mean, the blessings and powers of heaven flow into our lives. That's the light right there that you talked about. So that is awesome. Okay. Let's mark the last thing that we're gonna talk about in this segment. This is the third thing that will increase that Joseph will increase.

And I think this is cool. It's second Nephi chapter three, bracket off versus 11 and 12. And these are the classic Book of Mormon scriptures about the tribe of Judah will write and Joseph will write. So it is, and you can just put off to the side the Bible and the Book of Mormon or the word of God will increase.

So those are great scriptures about that. In fact, if you look at verse 12, it says, where for the fruit of thy loins shall write. And the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write, and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together unto the confounding of false doctrines, and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.

Whoa, talk about increase.

[00:27:03] Sharmaine Howell: I like that. It says the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions.

[00:27:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, that was so good

[00:27:10] Sharmaine Howell: and establishing peace. So he's saying like, you know, God's word, these books, these scriptures is going to what is going to be the thing that brings peace and stops the contention with among people.

And bringing, and then it says it again, bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers and to the knowledge of my covenants, like how important it is. He's saying it again. Yeah. Now we're one more time. I'm going to bring you to the knowledge of my covenants through these books.

[00:27:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Awesome. What about you, Kalo?

[00:27:42] Kalo Latu: First, the idea of recording things, making records, right? To have a record where we can look back and see. What, what it looks like over a lifetime to make and keep covenants. I mean, what does that really look like? Right. Does it mean that you keep covenants and your life is perfect? No, the book of Mormon is full of stories of people who keep covenants and suffer a lot.

And more importantly, they stay faithful. Right. Right. And what does that look like to stay faithful in the midst of suffering? And these verses tell us where we can go for information that will hold true in every circumstance and at any time for anybody. That's huge. Who can do that? Literally no one but God.

[00:28:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. Amen. Oh my gosh. So good. Okay. So let's do this in the next segment. Then we're going to tell you what the last three things are that will increase because of a Joseph.

Segment 3

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[00:29:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So this is a fun fact about me. I have been lifting weights for the last couple of months. And by weights, I actually mean like a five pounder at the treadmill.

[00:29:08] Kalo Latu: Hey, that's still good. I'm

[00:29:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: not really lifting weights.

[00:29:12] Sharmaine Howell: Slow down, girl.

[00:29:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, seriously, I know I'm getting a little bit crazy. Well, I hear the lifting weights in my old age is something I'm supposed to do.

So, I'm really trying to like increase my bone, no, my muscle capacity. Density, my muscle density. Apparently, I need something for my brain too. Oh, my gosh. A little heavier than a diet coke, right? Exactly, a diet coke and a donut, totally. Yeah. Um, I want us to think about this idea of just like our muscles and working out and having strength and what it does, like on a daily basis.

When you do work out, we know this, your muscles get harder and then you have muscle memory. Do you guys know anything about that muscle memory and why it's important? Tell me about it. What do you know

[00:29:49] Sharmaine Howell: Just when you work out your muscles? Yeah, yeah, right. We're just all going to make this up when you work out your muscles.

Um, it tears them down. And it's so they actually physically tear a little bit and then when you recover and heal, they grow bigger. So in order for them to get stronger, they have to be torn down a little bit. So I need if it's staying consistent, it's because you're not tearing them. So in order to get a bigger muscle, you have to go heavier in weights.

Okay, so that they tear a little bit more and then they get bigger.

[00:30:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, this is a cool analogy. This is really awesome shark to apply it to the things that are going to increase in this next part. Okay. Everybody keep that on the forefront of your mind because this is neat. So here we go. We're going to number the next couple of things.

So we just did the first three. Now here's number four in second, if I chapter three bracket off versus 13 through 16, 13 through 16 is a witness of the Lord's strength will increase. A witness of his strength, and that is not interesting. You said how it has to tear a little bit to get bigger like it.

And you know, Kalo, I wrote down what you said earlier, the people who stayed faithful in the midst of suffering. I just think it's so powerful. Joseph Smith story is a perfect example of that. Like it was hard. for him. And he was weak. He, he shouldn't have been chosen. If you were looking at everything on a piece of paper about him, God wouldn't have picked him.

And here's the Lord picking someone or something that is so weak. And so versus 13, 14 and 15 and 16, tell us a great story about Joseph. But I like verse 13. Shar, will you read that for us, please?

[00:31:29] Sharmaine Howell: And out of weakness, he shall be made strong. In that day, when my work shall commence among all my people, unto the restoring day, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.

[00:31:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, now, we're kind of getting into this idea about Joseph. Go to verse 15 and read that.

[00:31:43] Sharmaine Howell: And his name shall be called after me, and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me, for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord, shall bring my people unto salvation.

[00:31:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. In verse 15 where it says, and his name, that's Joseph Smith's name shall be called after me and it shall be after the name of his father, which is Joseph. I thought this was so fascinating though, because tradition is that you name your first born after the father and they didn't, they named the third born son after the father.

And that was Joseph Hiram. I, you know, I just think like of all the names. God is so good. His power. He knew everything all along. And here, Joseph is named after his father. But then in the end of verse 15, that the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, a hand of weakness by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.

Highlight the word salvation. Because it's so cool that that's another name or that's how you say Jesus. Jesus is the Greek name for the Hebrew name Joshua and Joshua in Hebrew is Yeshua and Yeshua means salvation. So there's like a double word play right there that he's going to bring us, bring the people unto Jesus under Christ through covenants.

So that's the first thing that becomes increases is the Lord's strength. Let's go to the next thing that will increase then. This is number five. We're going to bracket off versus 17 through 25. So 17 through 25 and Kalo. This is where Moses, his name is said so many times. Tell me what you noticed about his name in these versus

[00:33:22] Kalo Latu: just a leader.

He's a leader for people who are lost and need a leader. Yeah. And just, and, uh, I think. That all of us in our own time and space will at times be at a loss and need a leader. And for so many that what Moses was that leader and the symbol of hope and the person they could trust, right? The story of Moses and the people who followed him is not perfect because.

So many miracles that didn't follow him, but anyways, the point is he saved them, right? He was, was that they trusted and he saved them so many times in so many ways, led them out of bondage. The story of the serpents, the 10 commandments, I mean, so many times, manna, daily manna.

[00:34:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What struck you in this story in verse 17 about how he said that Moses was weak and that he would make him mighty because he couldn't speak.

He was a man who couldn't speak well. What does, what strikes you about the idea that the Lord uses weak people? Or people that are flawed or people who can't do what he should. He's a prophet. He should be able to speak. Right. Okay.

[00:34:44] Kalo Latu: Tell me about that. Glad you said this. I've had this discussion several times with some of my friends and here it is.

Sometimes we can get trapped into the idea and this is cultural. This is not doctrinal that we must be perfect. And not only must we be perfect, we must be perfect in all things. And immediately right now, if we are not perfect, we are not worthy. And this is so dangerous, but it is a thought that is so easy to fall into in our effort to be better, to live up to the ideals of the commandments that we're given.

I like that. The scriptures say that even in his weakness. He can, God can make him strong, right? Yeah, that's a shout out to every single person. You do not have to be perfect to be a value. You do not have to be perfect to do great things. You just have to be willing to let God prevail in your life. Yes, and Moses did.

Think of, I mean, he, it's obvious speaking was not his talent, not his strength and yet look at the things he did. Look at the magnificent things he did. And I think that's something we can all take and say, we don't need to wait until we have no weakness. If we're willing, God can make us strong. And I love that.

I love that. I love that. And, and I, and this thought always, my friends who are historians, we joke about this. They say the Catholics, they hold up the Pope like he's perfect, but then they treat him like he is a mere mortal man. He's perfect. He's a mill mortar, man. The, the LDS people, sometimes they'll say the prophets, they're, you know, there's just mortal men, but we treat them.

We talk about them like they're perfect. Right. Right. Right. And so in, you know, in this way, we can fall into this mistaken idea and, and, uh, thought, uh, mindset where we just think that we've always got to be perfect. No, it's enough that we try. That's the power of covenant keeping.

[00:37:14] Sharmaine Howell: I just, I love what you said, Kalo.

Thank you. I think it shows how merciful it is. Merciful God is to choose weak people because we see over and over again that he chooses them. He wants them. They're not the plan B, you know, they're his plan A. And you know, it makes me think of like the woman at the well and all the people that Christ comes to over and over again seem like they are full of flaws and full of weaknesses.

This is so merciful that those are the examples that we have to read about in our scriptures.

[00:37:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That is us. Yeah. I like how you said that Kalo and Shar. This is us. And so we're just seeing right here that the Lord, the thing that he will increase is he will increase our faith because of weakness. In fact, Shar, will you read verse 21?

[00:38:03] Sharmaine Howell: That's highlighted where it says this because of their faith, their words shall proceed forth out of my mouth unto their brethren who are the fruit of thy loins. Amen. And the weakness of their words will I make strong in their faith, and to the remembering of my covenants which I made unto thy fathers.

[00:38:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. There it is. So he takes the weakness of their words. He did make strong in their faith, and that's what happened with Moses and every prophet for that matter. So that is the fifth thing that will increase. And then the last thing that will increase is second Nephi chapter three, verse 24. Go ahead and bracket that off.

And right to the outside of it, the restoration Kalo, will you read that verse for us, please?

[00:38:46] Kalo Latu: And there shall rise up one mighty among them who shall do much good, both in word and indeed being an instrument in the hands of God with exceeding faith to work mighty wonders and do that thing which is great in the sight of God and to the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel and unto the seed of thy brethren.

[00:39:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So the outside of the restoration, wow. Talk about increasing. In fact, to the neck, right to that side where you put the restoration, I have one more thing to add to that, and it's a quote from Elder Eyring. So not only will restoration increase, but this is really cool. Here's a quote. And Shar, will you read this quote from Elder Eyring, please?

[00:39:24] Sharmaine Howell: The restored gospel of Jesus Christ gives us help in knowing how to qualify for the strength of the Lord as we deal with adversity.

[00:39:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Isn't that so great? So not only will we increase, not only is the restoration increasing, but so is the ability to deal with adversity that will increase all because of Joseph Smith.

[00:39:43] Sharmaine Howell: You know, tell me, it kind of says that quote, it kind of says it here in verse 23 a little bit. Ooh, read it. It says, wherefore, because of this covenant, thou art blessed for thy seed shall not be destroyed for they. Shall hearken unto the words of the book. So when it says they shall hearken that's talking about the seed, which is us, right?

We are going to hearken unto the words of the book and it just made me think of like hearing him Wow, you know so we are gonna qualify to know how to deal with adversities as we hear him and as We read the scriptures we can hear him through the scriptures And I love finding scriptures that talk about me in the book, right?

So it talks about when this seed shall hearken unto the words of this book, they will not be destroyed. And I just love finding that because this was written for our day and this is talking about us and it's prophesying about us. And so it's telling me, read the scriptures, hear him in these words, you know, it will save us.

[00:40:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Awesome. Awesome discussion. Thank you, ladies. So that is the end of the things that will increase in chapter three. Now knowing all of this, then we're going to go into second Nephi chapter four and something happens that we need to understand before we can dive into what Nephi has to teach us and one of his epic Psalms of all time.

You know it as the sum of Nephi. We're going to do that next.

Segment 4

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[00:41:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Um, okay. So here's what I want to start out by asking you guys, have either of you ever lost someone close to you?

[00:41:28] Sharmaine Howell: Um, I've lost. All four of my grandparents and, um, and I've lost some cousins and things and some tragic, um, situations. So,

[00:41:43] Kalo Latu: yeah. Mm hmm.

[00:41:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. What about you, Kalo?

[00:41:48] Kalo Latu: I lost a sibling.

[00:41:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I am so sorry to both of you for your loss.

Thank you for sharing that. Okay. I want you to think right now then, will you share with us some of the feelings you experienced after their death?

[00:42:05] Sharmaine Howell: For my grandparents, it was just, you know, knowing that they were going to be fine and, and peace and, and, and it was okay. I think a lot of the feelings are, the words are perspective, um, feeling a lot of perspective and then, um, Sometimes it's feelings of, you know, doubt, questioning, wondering why, and, and, um, sadness, right?

[00:42:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, those are great ways to describe how someone would feel, losing a loved one. Thank you, Shar. What was it like for you, Kalo, losing a sibling? What were the feelings you experienced?

[00:42:45] Kalo Latu: Sadness, but also peace.

[00:42:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Really? How old was your sibling?

[00:42:53] Kalo Latu: It's a baby. Seven months old.

[00:42:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How did it affect your

family?

I

[00:43:02] Kalo Latu: would say the same way. I mean, I think everyone grieves differently and I don't think my experience was the same as everyone's. But, um, I would certainly say sadness. And

I think everyone felt to one degree or another peace about the situation. So, yeah.

[00:43:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how both of your answers both said sadness and peace, and I wanted us to be thinking about this and feelings that has come with the death of a loved one or someone we are very close to because that's what's happening in second Nephi chapter four, verse 12.

Let's go there. And shall we please read verse 12 for us?

[00:43:42] Sharmaine Howell: And it came to pass, after my father Lehi had spoken unto all his household, according to the feelings of his heart and the spirit of the Lord which was in him, he waxed old. And it came to pass that he died and was buried.

[00:43:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We want to know this verse before we get into the Psalm of Nephi, because for me, it changed the way I read the Psalm of Nephi.

Psalm of Nephi. Our verses 15 through 35, but to understand that Nephi may have been painfully vulnerable after losing his father. And then going into these words that he writes, I just found it to be so much more beautiful than I ever imagined. And so I asked the two of you to read the psalm of Nephi and to kind of bring forth what stood out to you from this psalm.

And did you find anything comforting about the psalm? So let's just dive into this and share with me what you guys marked and guide us through the Psalm of Nephi.

[00:44:35] Kalo Latu: I, I love verse 20. My God has been my support. He has led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness and he has preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.

I love that. Why? Um, because I think often in suffering, it can be lonely because you can, for, for many reasons, it can be lonely for many reasons, but, um, but to know, but if you have knowledge that God lives, And that he knows you, he knows your name, he knows your heart, and While he may not remove the difficulty, he's with you.

And I think that means so much. I think of the scriptures. Mourn. What is the hallmark, uh, trait of a disciple of Christ? They mourn with those who mourn. You can't take away the heaviness, you can't take away the pain, but you can mourn with them and in that way you show love and I love this scripture because sometimes there's no one who can understand you and understand what you're feeling and what you're thinking, but God can and I, I just, when I read that, I just felt a lot of, um, I felt a lot of love from God for God.

Right? Cause he has led me through my afflictions. And I think that's really important because often when we're suffering, we pray for removal of whatever's in pain, but this points out as we've been taught so many times that not all suffering will be removed, but he can lead you through your afflictions.

So if you choose to, God can be part of your experience. And you can be, you can be edified. Anyway, I love that idea of God being with you. Yeah. Through your experiences. Yeah. Through your trials. And I think there's just great comfort in knowing that there is someone who understands who knows your heart.

Right. As I was reading through these scriptures, I, I felt for Nephi because He's talking about how he was trying, like he was trying to do good. He was trying to, he was trying to do what was best for his family. And, and yet he was accused of having malicious intent. Right? And how hurtful is that? And, and, um, but he was, I think it's really hard, especially when it's your family.

Right? And, but he knew God knew his heart and God knew his intentions and he was with him through his affliction and he preserved him as the record shows. He preserved him. So I love that. I

[00:47:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: love that. Well, the way you, the way you've looked at that verse and interpreted it and the way you've pointed out specific words.

It's like, you know, you know that this verse works. I mean, are you willing to share an affliction that the Lord has led you through? Is that too personal? No,

[00:48:07] Kalo Latu: it's not. I, I think,

I think I, okay, let me preface it this way. When I'm reading the scriptures. I, when I'm reading this specific account in these chapters, and I look at all the things Nephi is experiencing, including having his brothers tried to kill him twice in the record, right? And, and it wasn't just that they were going to shoot him and be done.

It was, they were going to make it, they were going to make him suffer. Yeah. Right. Right. Like they, with words. In addition to actions, and we all know how hurtful words can be. They're powerful, right? So he has all of these things happening, and then in these verses, he talks about, yet he prospered. There was great, so, to me, I think this is, this is life, right?

If you read this, this is life. You can have Great suffering at the same time is great happiness, right? And, and, uh, it's too bad that life isn't so linear as to just have only happiness. Sure. And so I, with that background, I think there are always little things that, um, come up that I find difficult. And have no solutions for right, uh,

there is a situation that is ongoing in my life where I have sought counsel of church leaders. I've prayed and as far as I can tell, I have no solutions

except this, except this be loving, right? And that is not be loving and be patient. And those are not the solutions that I think are helpful, right? But in this, this particular situation has been three years in the, in, in the experiencing. And here I am at the end of the third year, and I'm seeing the wisdom in that council.

And does it change? The things I would like to change. No, but I have a whole lot of peace at it. And I, and I am grateful to know that there's an omniscient God who can see the full picture and see the end. And so I am willing to go forward on this direction. I've received trusting that. This is the best solution for the end that is to come.

[00:51:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Kalo. Thank you. I wrote in my scriptures next to verse 20 to be loving and patient. And then I put your name in the date. I hope I don't ever forget that answer. That was awesome. Thank you for sharing that.

[00:51:24] Kalo Latu: To be clear. I'm not perfect at it.

[00:51:28] Sharmaine Howell: We don't expect you to be.

[00:51:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, no, no. But that was a great, great way to answer that question.

So thank you. Okay, Shar, what did you find in the psalm? What do you got?

[00:51:35] Sharmaine Howell: Oh, man, I just love it so much. Um, I read it so many times this week and thought about it so much. And I love in 15, he says, these This is where I write the things of my soul like this is his journal and he's just gonna pour it out And he's saying, you know, I I know I know I know I've been so blessed and I know the goodness of God I know it's here but I feel like this is where insert me because I'm like, oh man, this is me all the time.

And he's so real and he's so vulnerable and he's so relatable that I love it so much. Um, and he just says, you know, I know the Lord's been here and thinking, you know, about his dad passing away, like he is full of emotion. And he's like, I don't know what to do right now. Yeah. And he's just saying, but. Oh, wretched man that I am, my heart sorroweth and my soul grieveth.

And the words that he uses you can just tell he has no other way to just express how down he is and how Much he doesn't know how to move forward and what to do, you know And he's just sorrowing and you know, he's encompassed about Um because of his sins and his temptations and they so easily beset him It's kind of like when I feel like I pray and I'm like, why am I always asking for forgiveness for the same thing over and over?

You know, he's like, man, this sin is so easy. It's always there, you know? And then he's like, and when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sin. He's like, I want to be happy, but I am just groaning here. I don't know if I can be, you know, I can't get past it. Um, and so that's in verse 19. And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins.

And I put a big slash right after sins. And I wrote in my scriptures, don't stop here because the next line says, nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted. And then, and then the first two words in 20, it says, my God. And I just connected the end of 19 to those two words because. That is like what I need to hold on to.

Sometimes I stop after my heart groaneth because of my sins and I stop there and I just, I have a pity party and I'm just like, this is not working and I'm never going to change and I am who I am and I've been raised the way I am and, and there is no hope for me in whatever I'm trying to fix, right? And so easily we just can say, yep, well, Heavenly Father, thanks for listening to that prayer. And then you go on your day and you just are done right there. You just, you know, and, um, I just want to remind myself, don't stop there because I know in whom I have trusted and it's my God. And I love that. And it's goes back to how we talked earlier about how we need to see the hand of the Lord in our life.

And how we need to be able to, you know, in the last, like, I don't know, almost a year or so, I've had a journal by the side of my bed that says the hand of the Lord on front of it. I just wrote it. And every night I try to find one thing that he's done for me that day, that I can see him living in my life with me.

And it's helped me to remember when I'm. You know, just feeling so helpless or hopeless or, or dumb or whatever, like I can't change or I'm not enough to know that he's working in my life with me and I can't stop there. I need to keep continue to work with him. Um, and I just love, um, I love the way that you described that verse callow and how he does sport.

He supports us and he preserves us. And um, the words that I loved in that verse, you know, he leads us through our wilderness and to me that, that's like. Wildernesses are like dried up. There's nothing there, you know, so like in times where we just feel like done, dried up. We got nothing left. He's there, you know, and then he preserves me on the waters of the great deep.

I love that part because It's like the waters of the great deep that visually to me, that's like when you're all consumed, you're swamped, you're overwhelmed, you're just getting dunked, you know? And like, and it's scary, so scary, but you're, there's so much going on and you can't do it, you know? And I just love that visual of like, From being, you know, dried to nothing and nothing's going on to being overwhelmed and, and scared and just dumped on like he's there in all of it, you know, and I just, um, I love that.

And I love Nephi's just realness and how he then goes on to say like, okay, I'm not going to stop here and I'm going to see the blessings and to see where God has been in my life. And, and that I can change and that I can resolve to be better. And he does that, you know, and, and I think it's the place that we all love in verse 28, where he says, you know, okay, let's do this.

Awake my soul, no longer droop in sin, rejoice on my heart and give place. No more for the enemy of my soul. I love that. I love those two words. Give place. Like we have to give place in our heart. We have to let Satan be there. He's not just going to be there without us letting him. We have to give him a place.

And if we don't give it to him, he won't be there. And so he's like, I am no more giving place for you. You are. I'm going to give that spot to something else. And it's my savior and it's hope and it's faith, right? Yeah. So, um, I don't know. There's so many things. I just love it all.

[00:57:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So many things. Well, you know, I really loved when you connected verse 19 to 20 when you're like, don't stop.

And then I have trusted in my God because that's how he ends. His Psalm is going back to that idea of trust. In fact, Shara, will you read verse 34 and Kalo, will you read verse 35 when it comes to this idea of trusting,

[00:57:44] Sharmaine Howell: Oh Lord, I have trusted in me and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh.

For I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh, yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm.

[00:58:01] Kalo Latu: Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh, yea, my God will give me if I ask not amiss. Therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee, yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness.

Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God, amen.

[00:58:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. I'll amend that. You know, I started by asking, who do you trust and what, what are the qualities that person possesses? And when we apply it to God, this might be the only person you can trust. There may be some of you listening who think this is the only person you can trust.

And Nephi is saying right here, and I love everything you guys have said. Kalo, I love how you guided us through this idea, led through my afflictions, preserved in the wilderness, um, talking about the sins. And then he says right here. And the only person I can trust or the only person I have been able to trust is God.

And you can see that narrative throughout his life and his story. And so this, this idea of just being able to trust him. And so I love the powerful and everything you guys shared, but a great way to discuss the Psalm of Nephi and just, I love how you dive deep into these verses. So for everyone listening, My challenge to you is to go and read the psalm this week, knowing that it is just such this place of vulnerability with Nephi.

His father has passed away and share with us online what stood out to you from the psalm of Nephi. What hits your heart or what gives you comfort? And I'd love to know what it is that stood out to you from this psalm. So thank you to the two of you for coming so well prepared to discuss that. That was powerful and I definitely felt the spirit.

As you pointed this out to us, I can't wait to use some of this stuff. I mean, I've already got so many takeaways for the end of this episode, but I keep writing so many things in my scriptures. You guys are the best. This is so cool. It's so cool. Okay. So we've just now finished with the Psalm of Nephi and Kalo, you beautifully set this up because you talked about how it can be hard, but we can be happy.

And the idea of that, and there is a little bit of that in the Book of Mormon and you, you taught us this. So we're going to dive into that idea of happiness and what we can learn from Nephi and his people. So we'll do that coming up next.

Segment 5

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[01:00:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, you two, tell me what, what do you think it means to be happy?

[01:00:26] Kalo Latu: I think to be happy does not mean the absence of sadness. I think to be happy means to have hope.

[01:00:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, please. Did you learn that from

[01:00:39] Sharmaine Howell: a movie called, what's that emotion

[01:00:41] Kalo Latu: movie? Oh, is that? Oh, you mean the cartoon? Inside Out.

[01:00:47] Sharmaine Howell: Inside Out. Yeah.

Happiness and sadness live together. Oh, I forgot

[01:00:52] Kalo Latu: about that.

[01:00:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's awesome. I think you're right. Very good to have hope. Wow. That's a beautiful answer. Cause in my mind, I'm like, that's probably a diet Coke in a movie. Can I milk duds in my hand? That's what it means to be good night. I mean, that's great.

That is maybe a good meal. I

[01:01:13] Kalo Latu: love food, right? Well, I just, I just kept thinking that because in that chapter in chapter five, it starts off talking about All the trials that Nephi is going through. That's tough stuff. Verse 3, he's wrongly accused of things. Verse 4, his family wants to kill him. Verses 1 and 2, his family wants to kill him.

[01:01:38] Sharmaine Howell: And every other verse is saying how angry everybody is, right? He's like, they're all angry. They're all angry. Everyone's angry at me. Everyone's angry. I don't want to kill me. Like it's, he is going through it. Yeah. And then

[01:01:49] Kalo Latu: accusing him of really hurtful things.

[01:01:52] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah. Like

[01:01:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: verse four, can we just talk about verse four for a minute now?

I do not write upon these plates all the words which they murmured against me. I got news for you guys. I would, you bet I would. I and my journal, I got journals or my siblings called me mean things. You bet. I

[01:02:05] Kalo Latu: wrote that stuff down. Yeah. Or, or accused you Yeah. Of

[01:02:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: things. Yeah. Yeah. He's

[01:02:10] Sharmaine Howell: saying, he's saying, I'm gonna spare you.

It was

[01:02:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: bad, but it suffices me to say, I'm like, no, don't spare us. I

[01:02:16] Sharmaine Howell: really wanna to take away my life. He's like, just, this is like, okay. They want,

[01:02:20] Kalo Latu: and like the way he said that. Yeah. Don't you love me? Take away my life. They tried to kill me. They tried to murder me. He says, jumps to the take away my life from this realm.

[01:02:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes, absolutely. Kalo. I'm so grateful you pointed out because it really, in fact, it was so hard. He's like, we got to get out of here. He's like, I got to now take people that will follow me and we're going to go live in the wilderness where we've already been, but now we got to go live. And, and he, he lists the people in verse six who follow him.

And we, we've studied this. It's so cool. It's the only reference to him having sisters and it's the only time the word is ever used in the book of Mormon. I love

[01:03:00] Kalo Latu: it. Really? Yes. Isn't

[01:03:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: that amazing? It's the only time you're going to find sisters is reference.

Yeah. There's some girls there. They're going to go and live with him and, and all of this hardship, all of it, all of this leading up to chapter five, verse 27, Shara read verse 27.

[01:03:18] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah, this, this scripture got me. And it came to pass that we lived after the manner of happiness. I've just been thinking about that phrase, the manner of happiness. I'm like, what is it? What are they doing? That's making them happy. What are they doing?

[01:03:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Let's talk about that. I had you guys read chapter five and I read chapter five.

I took pink because that's my happiest color and I put smiley faces by all the verses that stood out to me of what they're doing to make them happy. Tell me what you guys came up with. What are they doing? So that after all this hardship, like you said, Kalo, that they can actually say they're living after the manner of happiness.

Tell me the verses that you noticed that we could put happy smiley faces next to. Okay.

[01:03:59] Kalo Latu: Verse 10. All right. Hit it. It kept the commandments. Yeah. Okay. Right then. Right there. Right there. We deserve to keep the judgments and the statues and the commandments of the Lord in all things according to the law of Moses.

I, I don't know. We talk about this a lot, but, um, if you talk in practical terms, I'm trying to think of a, do not lie. There are many examples in our society right now of the consequences and the burden of lying, of untruth, right? And you keep the commandments, that takes out a whole lot of suffering right there.

A whole lot of unnecessary bad experiences. That come about because of misinformation or just like intentionally telling things that are not true, right? There are so much and that can be both on the micro level of just interactions with people you see every day. You lie to people. It degrades trust and destroys relationships with people in your family who are close to you with friends.

You think about it in terms of work. You can't tell the truth. People can't trust what you say makes everything so much more costly, both in terms of money and in terms of emotional and. Uh, interactive, uh, ability to get work done if you cannot be trusted. Yeah. It becomes extremely costly to interact with you.

And then how does that feel when no one will believe you, right? And it's your fault because you've said things you shouldn't have said, right? Yeah. If you just think about commandments, you keep the commandments, you get rid of all of that. Yep. Yeah. Do not lie. Do not covet. Yeah. How hard is that? What's the modern day word for covet comparison?

[01:06:16] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah, I thought it was instagram.

[01:06:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We love the quote comparison. Comparison is the thief of joy.

[01:06:22] Kalo Latu: Yes, yes, a million times. Yes, I love social media. I love instagram. I love facebook. It's a great way. I think to see the world. If you are not careful, you can also be very, very sad. It's so true about all the great things in that are not in your life.

[01:06:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I really like that you just connected covet to comparing that's good. Yeah.

[01:06:49] Kalo Latu: Right. So, I mean, those are just some, some of the commandments. The other ones I won't discuss here because we can all imagine, but don't kill. Oh, sure, sure. They're all kinds of things, but you keep the commandments that takes out a whole lot of suffering that is unnecessary.

So I love the commandments. I love 11 verses 11 and 17 where he says, Basically, they worked. They worked. Yeah. I love that. So they worked. Yeah. I think that's huge. Sometimes I can, I think we can fall into the trap of wanting answers and then we become immobile. In

[01:07:36] Sharmaine Howell: 17, he says, I need, if I cause my people to be industrious and to labor with their hands.

[01:07:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right. Smiley face next to verse 17.

[01:07:46] Kalo Latu: You got to get something done on your own. And, and he says in 11, he says, we did sow seed and then we did reap again in abundance. We began to raise flocks and herds and animals of every kind. That's work. Yeah. Oh yeah. Sometimes we want our prayers to be answered before we move forward or we want.

Answers. I'm willing to do whatever you want. You just got to tell me. And until you tell me, I'm going to stay right here. And I think these verses are work solves a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. It solves a lot of things. And I think it gives you power. Yeah. It, it gives you power to feel empowered. Yeah. Right.

Maybe you can't solve all the problems. But you can solve a lot of them anyway. I think that's super significant to me, getting to work versus he talks about teaching my people to build buildings, learning to me, that's learning to work in all manner of wood, iron, copper, brass, steel, gold, silver, precious ores, all of which are in great abundance.

But he said he was teaching his people and they were learning. They were actively engaged in creating. And how powerful is creating, you cannot create what you do not know if they were actively engaged. Yeah. In learning how to create. Yeah.

[01:09:08] Sharmaine Howell: I think that like you just said, act actively engaged. I feel like the whole thing shows how they're anxiously engaged.

Like, you know, and we're anxiously engaged in a good cause that verse of that scripture or whatever that is. Yep. Like that's, that's the kind of people they seem like they were. The other two that really stood out to me were, you know, in 12, he says that he brought the records. Um, he made the point of saying that they had those.

So I'm going to just assume that they're reading them, maybe the scriptures, the scriptures. And then in 16 that they did build a temple and oh yeah, you know, going to the temple is something that supposedly makes us happy. We've been taught, right?

[01:09:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes.

[01:09:51] Sharmaine Howell: So going to the temple has got to be in there as part of their, you know, um, equation for living after the manner of happiness.

[01:10:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and I like the list that we've just made here when you guys have taken us through these verses about the idea of keeping the commandments, reading the scriptures, getting to work. Boy, I love the theme of that. Just to Kalo you are awesome. Getting to work, getting to work and going to the temple.

And I think about those things in my own life. Like, we know that they're true. We've been taught our whole lives that these things will make us happy. But I think what's interesting is that going back to this idea in whom I will trust, I can think of specific times in my life where I had to actually trust that those things would make me happy.

Because like you said, Kalo, I wasn't happy at the time, but I knew, okay, if I just go to the temple, that will help. Or if I read my scriptures, maybe that will help. Or if I get to work. And it became a process. I've noticed a theme like that in color. You've pointed that out that it takes time that we don't get the answer immediately.

And there was a period in my life where I was attending the temple on a very regular basis, and it took time for me to become happy again. And I knew going to the temple would do that. And that's the interesting thing here is that we, we learned that they didn't live, it says we lived after the manner of happiness, but like well into verse 27.

Yeah. And when I read that, sometimes I think they were immediately happy, but I think it, I mean, what are your thoughts? I think it came gradually. I think that they started to learn that they were happy as they're looking back. Maybe that's a looking back verse. Oh, and by the way, you were happy.

[01:11:27] Sharmaine Howell: Well, just to confirm that Tammy, it says after 27 and 28 says, and 30 years had passed away from the time that we had left Jerusalem.

So I don't know how long that they'd been away from their brethren and they were working and laboring, but he's like, there's been some time we've been gone for some time, you know?

[01:11:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. Yeah. And we all do that in our lives. Like I look back and think, Oh, I was happy when I was doing all those things in the moment.

I didn't feel happy. I was happy. Right. Or I became happier.

[01:11:52] Sharmaine Howell: Because work can seem hard, right? You're working hard. You're not like, yay, this is awesome. I'm working hard.

[01:12:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: At least I don't do that all the time. Go ahead, Kalo.

[01:12:04] Kalo Latu: Uh, in 34, I mean, this goes along with what Shar shared about 30 years passing. In 34, he says 40 years have passed.

We had already had wars and contentions with our brethren. Mm-Hmm. . So in the midst of all these really great things happening Mm-Hmm. . And he, he describes their ex existence as happiness. Right. Mm. We lived in happiness even though wars and contentions, they still wars and contentions. Yeah. Right. And I think that's a great lesson for us to remember.

Mm-Hmm. in our lives. That, yes, there will be difficult things that will happen. And sometimes the thing to be done is to not obsess over the bad things that are happening. Trust in God that he will guide you to do the things you need to do and then get to work. Yeah. Doing other things. Don't make it your focus.

Don't make all the bad things that are happening the focus of your life and like I, you know, it says keep commandments, work, learn, build Zion. I, that verse that talks about that you referenced Shire about building the temple. Well, look, how does that apply to us here? We don't build temples. We don't even build the churches right furthermore, depending on where you live.

You don't even work at the cannery anymore, so what does this mean? Well, I thought, you know what they are asking us to do minister. Yeah, so you can build Zion physically and you can also build Zion in non tangible ways definitely right minister to each other, build Zion in ministering to each other, helping each other, having empathy for each other, extending grace to each other.

In all these ways, we're building our own temples because none of us. Okay, I don't know. Maybe some of us will be asked to go over there and help physically put rebar in place and pour concrete, right? But what we all guaranteed are asked to do is minister. How do we know this? This is a hallmark of our church.

Organized ways. To minister and watch out for each other. So Nephi's time, build the temples our time. Build Zion in, in ministering to one another, strengthening one another, building the kingdom, literally. Yeah.

[01:14:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, I like that. Building the kingdom.

[01:14:36] Sharmaine Howell: Building the kingdom. I love that. Yeah, I just, while you were saying that, like, this is different for Nephi, but to apply it to me, verse 14, he said he took the sword of Laban, and after the manor they did make many swords, because they were preparing for possibly with the hatred of their brother, and they might come against them, which it shows in 34 they did, because they had wars and contentions, right?

So, I'm like, how is that helping them be happy, making swords? And for, you know, apply it to me. You know, they're preparing for the worst. They're preparing for trials. They're preparing for something that, you know, they don't know if it's going to come. They don't know, but they know that it will be that, that bad things might happen in life.

Right. And I reminded me just when you were thinking like to apply it to me, um, just last conference sister, right. Right. She talked about how she heard she had cancer and she was like, how am I going to help prepare my kids for this possibility of me dying? How am I going to do this? And the voice came to her like, They already have been prepared this all the daily things that they do each day is a drop of oil in their lamp And it is preparing them daily For any of these trials or any of these afflictions that will come they are prepared And so like we're not gonna be building or making swords in our day But I like how it connects to us needing to be prepared and it's just like the armor of God You know, the sword is the spirit And if we are preparing and if we have the spirit in our daily lives, we are preparing ourselves and those oil drops each day into our lamp.

So. We need the spirit spirit makes us happy. So we can have our sort of the spirit every day. Yeah.

[01:16:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: The word of God. That is a great connection. Thank you. That's so cool. Okay. So we've just got done talking about all of these people that lived after the manner of happiness and we've learned what they did to live after the manner of happiness.

But what about the people who chose not to live after the manner of happiness? What did they not do? We're going to talk about that next.

Segment 6

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[01:16:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's go to the second Nephi chapter five, and we're going to look at verses 20 through 26. So we're going to dig into these and we're going to find out these are the people who chose not to live after the manner of happiness. So let's go. Here we are. Second Nephi chapter five, verse 20, and here's the result of the choices that they made.

And shall we read verse 20?

[01:17:07] Sharmaine Howell: Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled, which he spake unto me, saying, That inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence.

[01:17:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So going back to how Kalo and I love how you started, you taught us about the importance of keeping the commandments so they will not hearken or obey the words.

They will be cut off in Book of Mormon times. They know the, what it means to be cut off. And this is kinsmen wording. You guys, let's be aware of this. Anytime we see it in the Book of Mormon this year, this is the idea that when you leave the tribe or the family, the head kinsmen, he can no longer protect you and you're essentially being cut off.

And that is what it's, that's why he uses this wording here. So it's not trying to be a harsh God. He's using wording we're familiar with and that the people are familiar with. But then we came into verse 21 and it says, and he had caused the cursing to come upon them. Okay. Stop right there. Highlight the word cursing and draw a line and connect it to being cut off.

This is the curse. They were cut off because sometimes then we keep reading in this verse and we think the curse comes it doesn't. We're going to stop right there. The curse was being cut off. And then it says, Yea, even a sore cursing because of their iniquity then, for behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint.

So mark the word flint. That means like a stone, a very, very tough, hard stone. They became like into a flint. Then it says, wherefore, as they were white and exceedingly fair and delightsome that they might not be enticing unto my people. The Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. Okay, we're going to stop right there now.

Now, Kalo, I can see you shaking your head. You look like you have something to say. Will you talk to us about this? First,

[01:18:58] Kalo Latu: I want to start my comments with this. Yes, yeah. In Elder Corbridge's talk, he says,

as we go through life, like I said before, there'll be all kinds of information and all kinds of information that cause us to ask questions and these questions can be very uncomfortable and there may be no answers that we are that satisfy

what we want to know, right? He said, Elder Corbridge, what you need to know is what are the primary questions and what are the answers to those primary questions. The primary questions are, does God live? Is God who He says He is? Can He do what He says He can? Does He love us, right? Now, if you can answer those questions, then the other questions, We just trust that we will understand someday.

Okay, I look at these verses and these verses have caused me lots of problems. Why? I am a Tongan American. And my skin is brown. So, I have had people say to me that someday my skin will be fixed and I will be white and pure. These people do not say, I never sense malice from these people. I know in my heart that this information is not correct.

I know what the scriptures say, it literally says. did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. All right. So sometimes we read the scriptures and we take the words literally what differentiates the times when we take them literally and when they don't. So I look at this and I read these scriptures.

Why are those the words that were chosen to use? I don't know. But do I understand That God loves all his children. Yes. Do I want to debate why these words were used? No, do I understand that some may see this as Not acknowledging truth that is in front of me. Yes And I'm fine with it. So that is my comment about that.

I understand what's seen there. I have many friends of color who find these scriptures very hurtful. And again, I found great comfort in what Elder Corbridge said, what are the primary questions? Yeah. And if you have the answers to the primary questions, then the secondary questions will work themselves out.

Secondary questions will work out. And as we've talked about in these verses, who do you trust? Yeah. Do I believe that God loves unequivocally and do I believe that God sees everyone, sees and knows everyone individually? Yes. And who do I trust? God. So yes, I understand that these verses are problematic.

But I know that the most true prophet is the living prophet. And what has the living prophet said? Skin color has nothing to do with worthiness before God. I know that he lives and I'm willing to just wait till I know the full story.

[01:22:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I feel like we need to just sit with that for a minute because what you taught us, Kalo, was so powerful and true.

Thank you. I really appreciate your words and your perspective on this topic and thank you for being a witness of this idea of primary questions and secondary questions because you're right, this verse It can be problematic. And you know, I'm just going to say, if I may add this one truth and it's connected to this verse and it comes from the come following manual for this week, and I think it perfectly supports what you just taught us.

And here's what it says. The nature and appearance of this mark are not fully understood. The mark initially distinguished the Lamanites from the Nephites. Later as the Nephites and Lamanites each went through periods of wickedness and righteousness, the mark became irrelevant. Prophets affirm in our day that dark skin is not a sign of divine disfavor or cursing.

President Russell M. Nelson declared, I assure you that your standing before God is not determined by the color of your skin. Favor or disfavor with God is dependent upon your devotion to God and his commandments and not the color of your skin. As Nephi taught, the Lord denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female.

All are alike unto God. And so I just think all of this is just perfect. Everything we've just discussed. So Kalo, thank you for coming. So well prepared. I'm so grateful you shook your head because we needed your witness. And that was just a perfect way to teach these verses. And that's the end. I mean, that is the end of our discussion.

I can't think of a better way to end. That is chapters three through five.

[01:24:14] Kalo Latu: What a note to end on!

[01:24:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What a note to end on. No, I like it because it is, it's about trusting God. And that is the key here, is trusting Him. I mean, isn't it interesting in 24 that it says, And because of their cursing which was upon Him, they did become an idle people full of mischief and subtlety.

I mean, verse 24 is exactly the antithesis. Of what caused everybody else to live after the manner of happiness. Like they were an idle people. They didn't learn how to work. They didn't have a temple. Um, and I think that's really interesting how we connect these words, everything. You can just see the juxtaposition between these two groups of people, one that has light and one that doesn't.

And so that's the key message here that we need to learn about having happiness and having the spirit. And the goal that we all have is to trust in the Lord and have his spirit with us. Yep.

[01:25:02] Sharmaine Howell: And you'll be happy, but not always, you know, uh, what's the word without trial.

Yes. Thank you. Happy and sometimes sorrowful along the way.

[01:25:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right. Yeah. That's part of the plan. I love it. Okay. So gather your thoughts after everything we've discussed today and what will be your takeaway from today's episode. Is there anything you wrote down, anything you learned or notes? So just grab it. Usually it's like a quick little two sentence gig about what you learned and when you're ready to share it.

[01:25:32] Kalo Latu: I'm grateful for the gospel of Christ because it's evidence of God's love for his children, and it gives them the way to find happiness in this life and to turn trials into experiences that benefit us. And I think that's a message worth showing that there is purpose in this life and that there is a way to live and feel healthy and productive.

And grow and, and to have an abundance of good in your life. And the gospel of Christ teaches you how to do that. And it also tells you what's coming, right? Like there will be hard times. This is what you do. You're not alone. You're not just thrown out into the deep waters and don't figure it out. No, God's with you.

Right. And I think that's incredibly comforting because. These experiences will happen for everyone. So it is truly a message of hope and joy and salvation.

[01:26:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, great takeaway. Great takeaway. Thank you. What about you,

[01:26:56] Sharmaine Howell: Shar? Um, I just loved being remembered, just remembering, um, that God uses weak people and he makes them strong.

And I love Nephi showing us all his weakness and all of his. Um, you know, vulnerability in this Psalm that he writes and, and knowing that we don't have to stop at being weak because he will make us strong and that it is our God who we trust in. So I just love that reminder.

[01:27:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, I do too. I love what I wrote down.

What you said, um, sharp was when you told that sweet story about you and your sister sitting there on the beach while your dad gave a blessing. I just love that. That visual of that and you sitting there and just feeling so peaceful and what I liked about it. I think sometimes we forget that. So thank you for that beautiful general reminder and for that story.

And then Kalo, I loved it. I wrote my scriptures next to verse 20 by loving and being patient. It's how he will be with us through our affliction. So thank you for teaching us so in depth about verse 20. That was powerful. So many times the spirit was felt today, just a good feeling of peace and love as we studied these verses.

So thank you to both of you coming prepared and reading these chapters. That was a great discussion.

[01:28:20] Sharmaine Howell: So good to meet you. Good to meet you. Good to meet you.

[01:28:23] Kalo Latu: Wonderful. Yay. Both. It's so nice to meet you both.

[01:28:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and if you guys want to hear more from Kalo, I highly recommend hearing her. She was on the very first episode of the Magnify Podcast for this year for 2024.

So go check it out. I know you did such a great job. It's a great discussion. So you can hear more from Kalo. Check it out on Apple podcast or Spotify. It's a good one. So.

[01:28:45] Sharmaine Howell: Thanks, ladies. for including me.

[01:28:47] Kalo Latu: This was fun. I enjoyed this.

[01:28:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Okay. So what was your takeaway? Go and join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned.

And you can ask questions or just share stuff that stands out to you. And then at the end of the week on Saturdays, we'll post a question from this episode and then comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on ldsliving.

com slash Sunday on Monday, and go there anyway, because it's where we have the links to all the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our fabulous study group participants were Sharmaine Howell and Kalo Latu.

And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember, please remember that you can trust him because you are his favorite.