The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
===
[00:00:00] The story about the brother of Jared and his people is such a good story that no one would fault Moroni for ending Ether at chapter five, you know, on a happy note. So I wondered why did Moroni decide to include the war chapters of Ether? We've already done so much war in the book of Mormon. I mean, Moroni watched his father die and we learned back in Mormon that Moroni is alone.
He's so alone. Because of war and bloodshed. So why in the world would Moroni feel the need to finish his record concerning the destruction of the people of whom he's been writing about? I mean, of all the things he could have included on the plates. Why more war and bloodshed? What's the point? Well, I have three guests today who have some background in why the war chapters matter, and I think they would have done the same thing Moroni did.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week. And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall and if you're new to our study group, welcome. We're so glad you're here.
Please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friends, Tammy Nielsen, Wendy Palentino, and Joy Alsop from Dallas, Texas, the magnify event. Ladies. I loved meeting you. Thank you so much for coming. Okay. Now, the best thing about this podcast is each week I get to invite friends to join me to discuss the scriptures.
So it's always a little bit different. And today you probably heard in the beginning, I have three friends. Okay. First and foremost, I'm going to introduce you to my friend, Larissa Waldron. Hello lady. Hi. Hello. How are you? Oh, I'm back. Oh, it's good to have you back. Larissa's been on a couple of times. Uh, she and I've known each other for well over 20 years.
Oh, we taught seminary together and now she's at BYU Idaho teaching full time as a professor. Tip of the hat, sister. Oh, you're kind. And Larissa and I could not be more thrilled about introducing you to these two new friends. We have David Shurn and Lincoln Evans. Hi guys. Thanks
Hello. Hi, how's it going?
Oh, we're good. How are you guys? Good.
Yeah, I'm great. I'm happy to be here. Yep. All right.
Is this the first time you guys have been on a podcast?
Yeah. So this is my first time being on a podcast. I'm kind of new to this, but we'll figure it out. So,
okay, here's what I want you to do. David, tell me how you two know each other.
Uh, I know the first time we met, we were in, I think, a world history class, Okay. Yeah, it was world
history.
Yeah. And now you're a senior.
Yeah. So, um, I'm a senior Utah Military Academy, um, Lehigh, Utah. David's a junior. So our school is a public charter school, Utah, that, um, focuses pretty heavily on military service.
And so, and through that Air Force Junior ROTC, which all of us are. members of at the school. So that's pretty great. I mean, David had gotten pretty close over the past couple of years.
It's been a whole lot of fun. We've been promoting together and yeah, only want to go farther. Exactly. Yeah.
What branch of the military do you two want to go into?
I'm currently in the process of applying. So my first choice would be the United States air force, but my dream is to become a doctor through the military. So a lot of people know this, but the military will pay for your college and they'll pay for your schooling after college. So I always want to be a doctor since I was little and kind of realize military would be a great way to do this and pretty sweet opportunities and good options to have.
That is so cool. Dr. Evans.
And I'm thinking of army or air force to become a teacher afterwards and then All the things I learned in the military to become like we have a really cool teacher named Colonel Critchet, and he has the funniest stories. Lincoln can attest
to this. Yeah, yeah, he's pretty funny.
He's he's a retired lieutenant colonel serving the army for I think it was something. It's 20 plus years. Um, worked in Pentagon for 5 years. It's one of my favorite teachers at our school. It's really great.
Yeah. And I want to become the next time and teach history and US government.
Well, that's cool. I didn't know that David.
That's awesome. I'll just do a kind of a cool brag for David though, and, and I know if, I've known David since he was, uh, Five. Yeah. Five or six. Um, his mom and dad are some of our very best friends. They just live down the street from me and, um, how this is so cool because the military academy this year started a list, Larissa, you're going to die.
The military academy this year started the very first football team that they've ever had. And David's like, I'll play. He's the quarterback. I love it. I know. And they won last night, 66 to zero. What?
Yeah. First win and it was by a landslide.
Whoa! Who'd you play? I know.
That's awesome. Uh, we played down in Monument Valley and they have a beautiful field during the sunset.
It was like a perfect purple right behind the red mountains and stuff.
I think, didn't your mom say it's ranked as one of the most beautiful high school football fields?
Yeah. It's really beautiful. top 10. I think [00:05:00] we're in the top 10.
Very. I'm just so proud of you guys for jumping in and playing. I think that's awesome.
Awesome. Awesome. Okay, well, we're gonna have so much fun. This is gonna be a really good discussion. And for those of you listening, if you want to know what my guests look like and you want to read their bios, you want to go check all of that out in our show notes, which you can find at LDS living dot com slash sunday on monday.
So everyone, we'll Grab your scriptures and no matter how you're studying alone with friends, family, anyone, we're just glad you're with us. So grab something to mark your scriptures with. And let's dig into ether chapters 12 through 15. Okay. I always ask my guests. First thing out of the gate is tell me what did the Holy Ghost teach you?
As you were reading these chapters.
Yeah, I can start that off. So, um, I think one of the most important concepts taught in like this week's reading is faith. Um, folks is pretty heavily on it in chapter 12, specifically chapter 12 verse 6. So it talks a lot about how faith is things that are hoped for and not seen.
And I think it's really important because yes, these chapters are a lot about a lot of war and a lot of trial and a lot of hardship. But, um, I feel like the main purpose of the chapters is so that you can have a recipe for it to not affect you and to be able to survive that. And so a big way I feel like that's important is faith.
And so it definitely starts off the reading by focusing on that. And I feel like that's definitely the theme of the reading is how to have faith and be able to deal with hard things.
Ooh, I love how you said it's the theme. Will you read that verse for us? Ether chapter 12 verse six.
Yeah. Let me pull it up real quick.
So it says, And now I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things. I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen. Wherefore, dispute not, because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
Lincoln, I'm just curious to know, do you have an experience with that verse?
Have you received a witness after a trial of your faith?
Well, I mean, so definitely, so I, I used to attend corner Canyon high school. So my freshman year, and so it definitely wasn't my favorite experience. I mean, to my freshman and sophomore year, um, I was like, I didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do with for school.
It's like, I don't really want to go back to corner. And I was looking for things to do that were new and kind of on a whim. I was on this youth trip during the summer, between freshman, sophomore year. And I met someone who went to UMA and kind of talking about it. And then it was like two weeks from the start of school.
I'm like, this seems interesting. And then I toured within the next week and then I basically decided to just kind of do it. And I knew like nobody. It was brand new. That was my first. Pretty big experience with like military culture on like a widespread scale. And that was definitely something that was pretty hard.
Cause it's like, I had no clue what I was doing. I definitely experienced for me, at least it's like recent that I can definitely relate to that, but now it's gone. Great. I know kind of what I want to do for the rest of my life. And it's had like an amazing effect on me and just kind of doing hard things and having faith that stuff's going to work out and stuff usually has a way of doing it.
Amen. Good story. Thank you, Lincoln. Good experience. Okay. What about you, David?
Uh, so this is also kind of relates a little bit to football. And so we started losing a ton and by a lot. And so we started integrating like a pregame prayer and, and then we would do it at halftime as well, and the more we did it, the better that we just started to perform, like we started to get more confidence in ourselves.
And after we kept on losing and losing, some of us were like, are we sure this is working? Is this, is this hurting it or is it helping us? And so we did it. Another time. And it was literally like the other day and we did it. And then we got a touchdown right on kick return. It was just like putting money in and then coming out and then getting it all back and plus a little more.
And that's what it felt like. And then just kept on going and going, and then we didn't get greedy. And then I have time, even though we were still winning by a lot, we still prayed and just that way we can show our unwavering faith and just, you know, Can't really explain with all the words because I'm not worried, but
no, David, that was a great explanation.
I'm just curious. Tell me a little bit about that pregame prayer. What does that look like? What did it look like for you guys?
We all just come in person who's saying the prayers in the middle and then we just all circle around and put hands on each other's shoulders and bow our heads and we're on our knees and we don't rush the prayer.
We try and keep it heartfelt and like show like our gratitude and like our faith and gratitude. Everything that we would like to have and what we need and to ask for like protection and to not die pretty much. And just try to keep it super heartfelt and like, show that we aren't doing it just because we only want to win, but that we actually trust in our Lord.
And we trust that he'll help us when we really need it.
Those are so awesome. Okay. Larissa, what the Holy Ghost teach you?
Well, thank you. Oh, I love those stories. I love seeing faith in [00:10:00] action with you guys. Thank you for sharing those Kind of going along with with what they're saying with faith, you know that there's that beautiful scripture in verses eight and nine where we're told But because of faith, the faith of men, he has shown himself unto the world and glorified the name of the Father and prepared a way that thereby others might be partakers of the heavenly gift, that they might hope for those things which they have not seen.
Wherefore, you may also have hope and be partakers of the gift if you have but faith. So I started to, to ponder about, Um, partakers of the heavenly gift, you know, and the first thing I would think, of course, would be the atonement of Jesus Christ. But I also think that it has to do with all of the gifts of the Holy Ghost.
If you go to Hebrews 6, it's Christ's atonement, the fruits of repentance, the cleansing that you get. Filled through the good word of God that that you can have hope and you know I love the way that David said that they're praying for protection, right? Heavenly Father never expected us to do this alone And so he's given us a bunch of gifts that we're allowed to have as part of the heavenly gift Which is the atonement of Jesus Christ power and help and protection and and boy just thinking about these war chapters with that image in my head of those boys, you know, holding each other, you know, arms around each other, humbly asking for protection.
It's a very, Different kind of a war right view than what we see in ether. So what a beautiful thing.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, the three of you as you guys were sharing that I'm not. I mean, here's what's cool is that I'm feeling the spirit already and we're only what seven eight minutes in that's what's neat about when we talk about truth.
And when we talk from about scripture, you just, and, and the idea where two or three are gathered in my name, two or three or four, you're guaranteed to be able to feel the spirit. And so thank you for all three of you coming prepared with their verses and what the Holy Ghost taught you. This is going to be a great discussion.
So as we said in the beginning, much of the Book of Mormon is about war. There are just so many wars. And so I knew the three of you with your military background, would really be able to shed some light for me, a civilian who has no idea. Like, I really thought, why couldn't we have just ended this at chapter five of ether?
And it's a nice story. Uh, cause the word chapters from here on out, they're pretty gory, especially when you get to the very last chapter of ether, which we all love. Right, Lincoln?
Oh, they're rough. Yeah,
they are rough. They are rough. So here's what we're going to do then in the next segment. We're going to hear what your answers are about why you think Marona included the war chapters, and we'll do that next.
Okay. Before I ask these three, the question, why the war chapters matter, I just need to make us understand why I've invited the three of them here. So David and Lincoln told us that they are going to a military academy. So they know a lot about war. But Larissa, tell us a little bit about your background.
Um, well, thank you. I, it's so strange, but when I came home from my mission, I was invited to join the U. S. Army National Guard as a Bulgarian interrogator interpreter. And so I went to basic training and did boot camp there. And I broke two legs in a year because I'm incredibly clumsy. And the Army knew that I would be a, um, You know, secret weapon for the other side, but in the meantime, while I was at basic training, I had a lot of really, really good lessons about the importance of our military, of the Army, and I'm really grateful for the things that I learned.
Did I mention I got an honorable discharge for breaking those legs? But anyway, that's another story for another day.
Well, that's good to know. Tell us what your title was when you were in the military. I think it's a private first class, which means that I was
the highest
of all the lowest.
That's pretty cool. I remember the first time I met Larissa when she mentioned just casually in conversation one summer when I was at bootcamp and I'm like, I'm sorry, can we, can we start that conversation again? Like you went to boot camp and you're like, yeah, it was fun. I'm like, Oh boy. I just, yeah.
Like, so I knew when we were doing war chapters. We've got to have Larissa on with these two guys in the military academy. This is going to be so fun. Okay. So here's my question that I want to know, why do the war chapters matter? And then I just have to tell you something cool that David did this summer when we were doing Alma.
I asked David why he thought the war chapters mattered. And he said, I'll get back to you. And then a couple of days later, he brought me a four page paper written by hand about why he thought the war chapters mattered. It was so cool. So I knew when we got to ether, I'm like, we got to have like, I Because I was hoping he could give me some insight about the war chapters.
Oh, he did. So Larissa, head this up. Let's have a discussion. I want to know from three of you, why did Moroni just not end at ether five? [00:15:00]
Oh, you know, that is a really, really good question, Tammy, and I'm just as excited as you are to hear from these, these guys. I, I'm really want to hear their perspective. I mean, I know, I know what I feel about it, but, but can I just do a little tiny bit with the scriptures for a second?
Um, I'm going to invite you guys to look at Ether 1331 and Ether 1431. So we've got two military leaders. Here and they both are doing something different and and I just want to take a look at him and no comment on who's a good leader and who's not. But it's just an interesting thought. So can we just have 1 of you read 1?
So Lincoln, do you want to read 3? Yeah, I can do
13. 13, thank you. And
David, will you read 14 for us?
Sweet, yeah, I'll start off. Um, so, And Sherrod, and Sherrod wounded Coriantumur in his thigh, that he did not go on to battle again for the space of two years, in which time all the people upon the face of the land were shedding blood, And there was none to restrain them.
Okay. So then we're going to take a look at the other one.
Now the loss of men, women, and children on both sides was so great that shiz commanded his people that they should not pursue the armies of Korean. Wherefore they returned to their camp.
Okay. What's the difference? What did each leader do?
One sort of retreated after they lost so many and the other kind of just stuck it through and kept on going.
Yeah, I love it. What else do you see? Lincoln, what do you see?
Yeah. So, I mean, you can see, so Corey got wounded. Um, and then so, and then talk about how he didn't fight for two years. So I kind of, I feel like that kind of says the timeframe that this is like throughout. So everybody kind of thinks these chapters are all like sequential.
Like I feel like in days it was like, Oh, one day after the next day, after the next day. No, I feel like people don't necessarily realize how these are over like multiple years and how it's just basically continuous years and years of bloodshed because Like, in the end, everybody knows, yeah, everybody basically ends up, there's no one left.
And so, but if you really think about it, for how long, um, Jaredites have been in the Americas, there must have been, like, millions upon millions of people. And so, and for it to get to that point, it would take years of just continuous bloodshed. So, I feel like that definitely provides kind of the time spectrum, where it's like, Oh, like, this is still going on even though it took, like, two years, and it's taken years and years and years for this to happen.
I love it. The other thing that I want to note, so we, we noted, both of you noted that, that Coriantumr, he doesn't do anything, and Shiz actually does something, right? What happens to the people, right? And Coriantumr's place. What are the people doing?
They're still continuing. They're just still going at it.
Yeah, there's no one stopping them. None to restrain them. They have created war. They've been in war and they keep going. And if you go over the shoes one, what are the people doing?
They're just like, well, it's not worth it anymore. Let's just give up.
Yeah, he tells them don't pursue them, right? They're gonna, they're gonna keep battling, but he's like, don't pursue them.
So this is, this is the example of a leader, right? A leader steps up and he speaks out.
The
reason that the people keep going is because no one is restraining them. And I think that, you know, have you ever been in a situation where people were kind of getting out of control and no one did anything? Have you ever been in that situation?
Yeah. Well, yeah, half the time it's a daily basis. David probably deals with it a little bit more than I do. So, at our school we have, um, leadership roles and so we basically have a military chain of command. And so, as of right now, I'm currently the highest cadet rank in the school. So, I'm over all, like, 400, roughly 400 corps.
David is the direct supervisor for about, like, 40. Yeah, so he's the direct supervisor. So he's on the ground with them like every single day, depending on what we're doing. And so, I feel like there are definitely situations, at least that I've seen, as someone who's at the very top where stuff does get out of
hand.
They died down after the school year started, but I've had like people from other flights trying to sneak into my flight and like thinking that I don't notice. So I'm like, dude, I see you. Or some, I have like my assist, like my sergeant, like. Not do anything. I'm like, stop instigating you.
Come on. Yeah, it's definitely an interesting environment though, because so we're a bunch of teenagers and so we're being put in these like adult responsibilities and roles.
So it's really good though, because everybody kind of figures these things out. So you kind of learn how to lead from the front and be able to learn how to actually set that example and be able to, like, I feel like I'm definitely going into whatever I do next, whether it's the military, not a lot more prepared with actually how to deal with people.
So that's, I feel like a really valuable skill, but
I love that.
And then there's just also small little, like, why would you even think of doing that? You're, you're a 10th grader and I shouldn't have to say putting your fingers in other people's mouths.
I'm not joking. That's [00:20:00] a true story. I had to fall and tell someone, dude, get your fingers away from his mouth.
Yeah, right. Isn't, isn't that interesting? This idea of, of the importance of a leader stepping up and to restrain others, right? Or to stop things from happening. We have people all over our world right now, whether it be teachers or parents who are, they're stepping up in there.
And they're. Um, stepping out and asking people to do what they need to do. But we also have people who maybe you're in a situation and they're afraid to say anything. Maybe, maybe a Sunday school teacher who's who doesn't know how to take control of a classroom, right? Or maybe a parent who is doesn't realize that they're letting their children go out of control because they're not restraining them.
And as tough as that is to do, it's still needed because it gets to be pretty chaotic. If we don't have some sort of a system of order. And I think that's one of the reasons for the war chapters and for studying this kind of thing, but there are more other reasons, but I want to hear your thoughts to Lincoln.
What are some of the reasons that you think we have the war chapters?
Yeah. So first of all, I think the word chapters are for everybody. So, um, a lot of people think that specific parts of scriptures, like just aren't for them. I feel like they're for everybody. So the world is like only getting scarier and scarier every single day.
So it's been prophesied that it's only going to get worse. And so, and it is actively getting worse, like, as we basically sit here, like, every single day. So, um, like, look at Israel, look at Russia, look at Ukraine, like, everything. So, there's constantly, as it says in those prophecies, wars and rumors of wars.
That's basically what we see in the news, at least on a daily basis. Oh, is Israel gonna strike Iran back for that massive missile attack? Oh, what's gonna happen, is Russia gonna nuke Ukraine because they did an incursion? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think the war chapters of Book of Mormon are good, Because it's a book of scripture for the latter days.
The book of Mormon wasn't written for the time. It was written for us now. And those are the things that us as children of God are dealing with now. We need to look, we need to know how to deal with those types of situations and how to. So we have to actually restrain ourselves and build to have faith through those hard things.
And so, because the war chapters, in my opinion, they provide examples of situations that whether we like it or not are most likely going to come about before the second coming. And so we don't know if we're going to be around for that, but our children might be or their children. And so we have to keep, I guess, the mindset of being prepared and knowing what to do if the situation does happen.
And I feel like that's mainly the biggest point of the chapters is it's saying, look, Like, yes, this, even in like a pro society where Jesus had come within a couple hundred years of all these being written, it's still happening then. Of course, it's going to happen now.
Thank you. And what do you think, David?
What are some of the things?
So my reasoning of why I think war chapters are really important is because wars are kind of broken up into three parts. You got the like pre, like what's happening before the war that makes people feel like they need to go to war. Then you have the war itself. And then you have like, what happens after the war and usually after the war, it usually leads back to another war and you kind of see that happen with like world war one to world war two, like world war one, Hitler was a soldier during it.
And then he was like on the ground, really low ranking. And then afterwards he felt hate. And what he saw was we could have won that so easily. Like it's, it's these people's fault. So let's go to war with them now. So what we can, so we can get some of that glory back and it all, and it's, it usually always happens in a circle, but after world war two, you started to see like the power of communism and capitalism, like split our continents in half.
And that all happened because of world war two. And it just. We came to the foreground of Vietnam and Korean, the Korean war. And then it's just going to keep on cycling forward and forward and forward. And if you don't have like one of those, you're kind of stuck in the darkness of, well, we know what happened before, but what's happening in the middle.
Yeah. I feel like another really good example of that is what's going on in Israel right now, because they've been basically, there's been war in the Middle East since. Like. Basically the 60s, and so, and like with all that situation, so it just basically keeps coming back with the same exact people.
Israel was at war with Egypt, and then with Lebanon, and then back with Egypt again, and then over and over and over again, and then it's just basically this never ending cycle where it's like, okay, when is it gonna kick up again? And so, and it's basically just because, oh, we're doing this because of what they did, because of what they did, because of what they did, because of what they did, and it goes back.
100s and 100s of years way back to like the times of the New Testament, basically. And like that deep rooted hatred between those different religious organizations, which just lead to more and more war and suffering.
I sort of had an aha moment when you were talking, because when David said there's a pre war, a war, and an after war, one of the things I'm thinking now is, Thank you.
I might, I might start to understand why the war chapters matter. And when David was talking about those three things, I went back to his first thing when he talked about how they have a pregame prayer [00:25:00] and a pre war prayer that you're doing the right thing. It seems like throughout these stories, it's when people turn to Christ.
That it eventually got better. But I like how when David said they didn't win the game after they did the first prayer, they had to continually compound the prayer and then they did win. And I think that that you see that a lot in these war chapters because people still die. Righteous people still die.
But, uh, but in the end, The people who win are the ones who do the pregame or the pre war prayer. Now I'm thinking I'm going to call it a pre war prayer, David. Wow. And I
think also there's got to be a way to get out of the cycle. Yeah. Right. I mean, we know that we know that war is horrible and we know that it's been prophesied.
And as these boys pointed out, there's a history of, of war, but we have our prophet that asks us to be peacemakers. We follow the Prince of Peace. And so how do we. both protect ourselves and protect our families, you know, from either real war or even, you know, spiritual warfare that we're in and still, you know, be, be people who are peacemakers.
Some interesting,
one way I think of like how to do that is just remember who you are and you have to be like the bigger person and say, okay, you can take this and you can take that. Let me be, and let me have like. At least let me keep my sense of pride and let me do what I want. Yeah.
Yeah.
And doesn't Corey Antomar do that at one point where he finally goes, I don't want to do this anymore.
You take the kingdom. Let's save the people. Right?
Yeah. And I love his answer because he's like, no, listen, fine. I'll take the kingdom and then I'll, and I'm, and I want to kill you. So if you let me kill you, then I'll end the war. And Korea was like, not exactly what I was thinking. So they don't, there's no ceasefire because Korea was like, I kind of want to live.
I feel like the unfortunate reality is that war isn't going to go away, at least until the second coming happens, but the chapters like these and knowing what to do can set you up to be able to make the decisions that are going to keep you safe and be able to. When you have to make hard decisions and hard calls and stuff like that, where like, and you get put in rough decisions, you kind of know the process to go about to make the right decision.
Cause sometimes you can have situations where two really bad options are put in front of you and you have to make the better of the two really bad options and being able to know and have resources to be able to make those decisions is going to help you be a lot better off in the future. Even if it doesn't go away.
Oh, for sure. Oh my gosh. You guys. You might've convinced me that we need to keep the war chapters. Now I'm starting to understand why Moroni is like, you know what? I'm going to go ahead and put these in because you're right. We're going to need them for today and for the world that we live in. And these lessons are very important and very pertinent to our time.
So we're going to continue this discussion. And I am really excited to hear what you guys have to say. And, um, our goal today is that Everybody, by the time we're done, will truly come to their own conclusion as to why the war chapters matter. So troops, let's find out why who is in charge is so important.
We'll do that in the next segment.
So I want you guys to tell us, who are listening, the civilians, tell us about ranks or ranking in the military. Why do ranks matter?
Okay, so a really important concept in the military is chain of command. And so one of the best ways that you can perform chain of command is by having ranks and being able to have a little bit of separation.
And so chain of command makes it so the information flows as needed from top to bottom, because in the end, not everybody needs to know the big picture. You have people who are in charge of the big picture and you have people who are in charge of the little picture. And so every different branch of the military has different ranks that names them to change for the army.
You have. Say for instance, like private, private second class, private first class, specialist, sergeant, et cetera. Um, Air Force, we have some of the ones and then you have officer ranks as well. So there's, there's a lot of different ranks in the military and they all have different jobs and they have different scopes of, I guess, view over what's going on is how I would describe them.
And Lincoln, you said you have the highest rank at your military academy right now. Yes. Is it because you're the oldest too?
No, so usually the way ranks at least for us work So we mirror the air force's rank structure. And so we have enlisted ranks. We have officer ranks And so depending on what your roles are and responsibilities, you can get put into those different roles at different times.
So, the highest leadership positions are filled by upperclassmen, so seniors. I'm, I'm currently a cadet colonel. So I'm over our entire cadet wing, so our entire student body. So I just have, um, one person I have to go to. I say, hey, this is what I want done. And then he figures out how to get it done. And then he goes and talks.
It's two people who are group commanders and says, Hey, this is what we want done. This is how I want to get it done. What's your guys plan to do that? They talk to their squadron commanders and say, Hey, this is the plan for us getting it done. This is how you're going to do it. And then the squadron commanders would go to [00:30:00] people like David, who are just directly on the ground in charge of the smallest number of people that you can be in an officer role.
And then just blows all the way down. Everybody knows what they need to know and knows what they need to do.
That's cool. Now, David, you'll be a senior next year. So what does that mean for you? Thanks. It
means I get the chance to go for Lincoln's job, which to be quite frank, I don't know if I really want it.
I'd rather take the deputy there. It sounds like a lot of responsibility. Yeah, it is a whole lot of responsibility. It is 400 people that you got to like keep in order, keep in line. And I'd rather take the deputy one because I can use a little bit more creativity and like, cause as he said, he says, this is what I want done.
And then I just have to figure out how do I get it done? And it makes me use a little bit more of like. We can do this, we can do that. Let's try this with one half, this with the other half. But the reason we have ranks is like Lincoln said,
to divide everything up. It also, it also allows for mentorship as well.
Okay. Oh my gosh. That was a great, great description because listen, the only thing I didn't know about ranks is from Top Gun. So thank you. Sad, but true.
Top Gun gets it right. So, I mean, it's not, I'm not totally off.
Well, let's do this. Let's get into some scriptures in the book of Ether and let's look at some ranks.
Here's what we want to do. Go to Ether chapter 7 verse 20, because first and foremost, you want to know what the conditions are like or what the kingdoms are like. So Ether chapter 7 verse 20, we can turn there. And Larissa, will you read that for us, please?
Yeah,
you got it.
And the country was divided and there were two kingdoms, the kingdom of Shul and the kingdom of Qohor, the son of
Noah.
Okay, so there's going to be two kingdoms. I like how it says it was divided and it's going to be divided until we finish out the entire book of ether. So within those divisions, then we want to find out a couple of things. Turn to ether chapter 10 verse 31 and David, will you read that for us please?
Yeah.
And he begat Heth and Heth lived in captivity all of his days and Heth begat Aaron and Aaron dwelt in captivity all his days. And he begat Amnegadah. Gida also dwelled in captivity all his days. And he begat Corianton and Corianton dwelt in captivity all his days and he begat calm.
Thank you. Okay.
That's a lot of begats. But the point is to show you that we are dealing with generations of Kings and generations of kingdoms throughout the book of ether. Okay. So now let's go to ether chapter 12 verse one and Lincoln, will you please read that for us?
Okay, and when it came to pass, the days of Ether were in the days of Coriantumr.
Coriantumr was king over all the land.
Okay, highlight king. So we know that about Coriantumr. And now we have another rank. So we have the rank of king. And now let's go to Ether chapter 12, also, verse 2. And Lincoln, will you read that for us?
Yeah. Um, and ether was a prophet of the Lord. Wherefore, ether came forth in the days of Coriantum and began to prophesied to the people where he could not be restrained because of the spirit of the Lord, which was in him.
Thank you. Now, verse two tells us about a man named ether and what's ethers rank
profit profit.
Yeah, perfect. So I want to know from the two of you. Well, actually tell me three of you. Well, you're in the middle. I mean, I don't know. This is tricky. It's kind of fun question because of all these ranks, which one would the world consider the highest ranking?
Well, so it's, it's definitely interesting because so in the military, a king would be considered, I would guess the highest ranking because they're the head of state or the head of the group, the head of their people, but historically, um, lots of nations have taken influence from specific religions and religious leaders.
So, um, for instance, the crusades, those armies were led by religious leaders and those armies. Took influence of the teachings and I would say the guidance of religious leaders. And I feel like that still definitely happens. The military there's specific roles called chaplains that provide spiritual guidance to members of the military.
And that are like, I guess, a dual function where they're members of the military, but they're also a religious leader for the troops and stuff like that.
That's a good answer.
I think it's really a perspective thing because to me, people who are like atheist and are in the military, they're probably going to see the king as that, like highest ranking.
Whereas people who are like, super religious are gonna see the prophet as the highest ranking. And then you have people who are just. Kind of casual in religion and they're just gonna be like, I'll go to the prophet for this and I'll go to the king for this, but if it really comes down to it, I'll just play rock, paper, scissors and see,
yeah, I love so much that you guys brought all of this up before we get back into ether.
I want to know the Risa. You were actually in, like, you're in boot camp, you're doing it. Did you see a division, like, what was it like for you to have a rank but also have a religion? Can the two coincide?
Yeah, I, [00:35:00] that's a good question. Um, you know, I was, I was thinking as I was reading all of this, you know, from Shakespeare's Henry V, he says, Every subject's duty is the king's, but the subject's soul is his own.
You know, that idea of, yeah, I, I signed the contract that allowed me, you know, I gave a lot of my, my agency over to the military when I was at basic training. And there were a lot of kids that were really frustrated about that because they didn't want to do what they were asked to do by their leaders, right?
Um, but they had given their agency to do these things, right? And, um, and even though, you know, they would be asking us to do things, um, there was still that internal part of me that was my own, that was a sacred space for me to still reach out to God in prayer for, for whatever I needed in the, in the moments while I was there, and please believe me, I needed him a lot.
That was a, uh, Completely out of my comfort zone to be there completely, you know, I think these these cute boys Maybe I should call you young gentleman. I apologize. Um, they're they're a little more prepared, you know David being in football you're used to taking orders. You're used to listening to your captain, you know your your coach for me It was something completely out And I remember, um, as we drove up, uh, to basic training, we had flown into, to, uh, Georgia and then we, we drove on the buses into Fort Jackson, South Carolina and we got It got quieter and quieter and quieter as we, as we got closer to the military base, and I started to kind of freak out internally and wonder why did I, why did I do this?
And, and then a scripture actually from Ether, and you probably covered this in your last segment, where, where the Lord asks Ether, what do you want me to do? Um, so that you can have light in your ship when you go forward, right? And, and gives them that agency. And I felt like the Spirit was saying to me, what, what do you need to be able to get through this?
And I remember just, I just prayed. I said, well, of all the gifts I could have, I don't want to be alone. I want, I want your help with, I want you to be with me at basic training. But I don't have to go through this alone. And I just was filled with such a, a feeling of, of not, you know, just, just security, strength, um, that I had someone with me.
And so it's a good question, right? I felt different than, than the other kids there. I felt different because I knew that I was standing with God. So, so regardless of what's going outside, happening outside, there's that internal part of you that can be really, really close to God.
Oh, Larissa, thank you for sharing that story because I think that's Ether's message is.
And Lincoln and David, you have done an excellent job of setting up what this war was like and how scary it is in the world that we live in today. And the reality is, is that when we follow the prophet, we can stand with God and we can be successful. Let's go into Ether and look how the people reacted to Ether the prophet.
We're going to be in Ether chapter 13. Let's read verse two. And then we're going to read verses 13 and 14. And David, can you read that for us?
For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether, and he truly told them for all things from the beginning of man, and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land, it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord.
Wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof. Amen.
Thank you. Right there. They rejected all the words of ether. And now let's go to verses 13 and 14 and Lincoln. Can you read that?
Yeah. And I was about to write more, but I am forbidden, but great and marvelous for the prophecies of ether, but they esteemed him as not and cast them out.
And he hid himself in the cavity of a rock by day. And by night he went forth viewing the things which he should come upon the people. And as he dwelt in the cavity of a rock and made the remainder of this record, viewing the destructions, which came upon the people by night.
Thank you. Okay, because of the way that people reacted, I just want to know when you read that he would dwell in the cavity of a rock, what did you guys think when you first read that?
It's like, what defines a cavity in a rock? There's like, there's really big caves and there's really small caves. So either he's living in some tiny little crack or he's living in like some massive spacious thing where it's like he has room to move and stuff like that where he's just actually just like hunkered down in
a crack
of a rock.
Right. What did you think, David?
So my, when he, when he says living in the cavity of a rock, I'm like, Most likely in like [00:40:00] relatively small cave, maybe enough to like, have like a small bed and maybe a little stone rock desk to put the plates on and go in between.
I love a stone rock desk. That is so perfect.
Then you guys, we all have, for anyone who isn't from Utah, Whenever you drive through the mountains, tell me if you guys have ever done this. When you're driving through the mountains and you're just looking at the mountains, do you ever see holes in the mountains and think, I bet that's where people lived?
I bet Indians lived there.
Especially down south. You have like, when you're driving down to like Vegas or like St. George. Like past there and like in Arizona and stuff like that, you have all these wind eroded little spots where it's like, Oh, I could totally just like curl up in there.
That there's a cavity of a rock.
Now I'm going to think of ether every time I see a cavity of a rock. So he's living in this cavity. And you know, it's interesting because even though the people just rejected, rejected, rejected him, it didn't stop him at all. In fact, here are the instructions he's giving to the people in ether. Chapter 13, we have verses 20 and 21.
Let's just highlight these two verses. And, Larissa, will you read these for us?
And in the second year, the word of the Lord came to Ether, that he should go and prophesy unto Coriantumar, that if he would repent, and all his household, the Lord would give unto him his kingdom and spare the people.
Otherwise, they should be destroyed, and all his household save it were himself. And he should only live to see the fulfilling of the prophecies which have been spoken concerning another people receiving the land for their inheritance. Amen. And Coriantumar should receive a burial by them. And every soul should be destroyed.
Save it work, Coriantumar.
Pretty, pretty brazen prophecy, right?
It is prophecy.
Intense. In fact, go back to Ether chapter 12, verse three, let's find out how often he was prophesying to the people. I really like this description in verse three, it says, well, and, and Lincoln read this in verse two. I want to go back because the word restrained now that word stands out to me, Larissa.
I'm so grateful you showed us that because it says right here in chapter 12, verse two. He began to prophesy into the people, for he could not be restrained because of the spirit of the Lord, which is in him, for he did cry from the morning, even until the going down of the sun, exhorting the people to believe in God unto repentance, lest they should be destroyed, saying unto them by faith, all things are fulfilled.
So we, we've got this, you know, when he's trying to preach to the people, they're not listening, they're not having it. And as a result, we're going to find out what happens in the next segment.
Okay. So before we tell you what happens, though, we have a very interesting thing. Moroni does an about face. Now, Larissa, tell us what that means. Oh, that's turn
yourself around.
About face. Say it how they say it. About face. Do they they do it with you guys too. Well, we're the
ones, me and David are usually the ones who are saying it.
So
Okay, I want you both to say how you say it to your cadets. Oh, okay. Give it to me.
About face. I say about like, I do it like, about.
Oh,
that's
good. Okay. We're going to have an about face right now in scripture because here's Moroni. He's writing the story. He's telling us about ether. And then all of a sudden he stops.
The storyline and we get an about face. Let's go to Ether chapter 12 verse six. In fact, bracket off versus six all the way through 41 and you could write to the outside of these Moroni's about face because he stops the story to tell us this. So we're going to start by reading in Ether chapter 12 and we're going to go to just, we just want to read verse six right now.
So Larissa, read that for us. Let's go. You got it.
Okay. And now I Moroni would speak somewhat concerning these things. I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen. Wherefore dispute not, because you see not, for you receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
Okay. Scripture, mastery, scripture right there. It's a we're talking about faith. He stops to talk to us about faith. Now, I asked the three of you to read all of these verses and come prepared to share with us what verses stood out to you when Moroni is teaching about faith.
Yeah, so the scripture I marked, so it was Ether 12, 8.
But because of the faith of men, he has shown himself unto the world and glorified the name of the Father and prepared a way that thereby others might be partakers of the heavenly gift, that they might hope for those things which they have not seen. So, um, I think it's pretty cool because, so it's saying by, by, by the faith of other people is why Jesus was able to come in the first place and be able to give other people that opportunity.
It's by, by your faith and by you [00:45:00] having faith. You can have a direct impact on other people's opportunities and other people's abilities to be able to feel the spirit and be able to have those type of spiritual opportunities and spiritual experiences.
Excellent. Do you think that's why he did the about face?
Because he's trying to say, you don't want to go where this is going. Yeah. I think it will stop you. Go ahead.
Yeah. So I think the purpose of that is to say, like, even no matter what happens, this is how you're going to prevent this. And this is like, and by doing this stuff is how is your recipe for how not.
To do what these people did in the next like three chapters.
Right? That we as a people can have faith that he's coming, right? It says there in the scriptures, right, that he came after they had faith that he would come. And so maybe he's saying to us, don't get it to the point where it's so wicked. Create it a righteous place so that you can have him in the second coming.
Yes.
Like a negative example where it's like, don't do this, this is how you don't do this.
Yeah. This is how you don't do this. It's like on
a warning label where it's like contents may explode and then it tells you how to keep the contents from exploding.
Right?
Yeah. 100%. Boy, when we did, when we did, um, Claymore mines or, you know, uh, grenades or shooting weapons, I mean, I sat there going, okay, tell me everything about how not to let this explode on me.
Tell me everything. Make sure I got this right. Wow.
Oh, I bet that was so scary.
Oh, scary. Every night I'd say, if you want to pray, come to my room and we can pray together. And I would have all these people who were not members, right? They would come in and pray with me because we were doing these dangerous things.
It was really, really beautiful.
You're
having a pregame where through your faith, you're affecting the faith of other people and the experiences of other people. So it's exactly the same. So
I
do have like a personal experience of like things that like straight strength and faith. And this is. Kind of a football analogy.
When I first started playing, I did not initially trust my lineman. As the season progressed, it got stronger and stronger with my trust in them. I'm like, okay, they know what they're doing. I can trust them a little bit more. I think faith is a whole lot more like that is like every time you test it and it keeps on working out, you get more and more trust in it and you trust more and more, which I think is what trials of faith really are quite, quite obviously is you're just like.
The Lord's testing you all the time and he's like getting more and more faith in you and like trusting you more.
Mm hmm. Ooh, David, I have a follow up question because you're 17, you're going to be a senior next year and you've been doing this faith walk your whole life with church. I want to know what element of the gospel of Jesus Christ have you had to learn to trust?
Is there a specific element that you're like, I don't know about this and you have just had to trust it? Like you're a lineman? Yes.
Is I sometimes think I'm just going to be alone through it and I just have to remind myself like I'm not going to be alone through this. I know he'll be right by me and it's just reminding myself that he is going to be there with me.
I'm still human. I still probably say I'm totally alone or like I just completely shut myself out. But as long as I just remind myself, I'm not alone. I know he's here and I'm sure if I just turn to him, I will get the help I need.
Is there been a certain moment in your life where you knew he was there with you?
Uh, I used to do this program called Sea Cadets. It's kind of like what we do at school, but it's like, every weekend, it was what it was. It was just every two Saturdays is, and we have to go through recruit training. It's a week long process. And like the night I got there, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I don't know anyone.
I'm totally alone. And I'm like, and then as I started going through the week and I was just like, I know, I know Jesus here with me. Like, I know he'll help me out and I know things will be figured out. As the week progressed, I slowly kind of made friends cause we weren't really allowed to talk to each other cause my recruitment training was really harsh.
It's basically a mini bootcamp. Yeah. It's everything that they do in eight weeks into like a singular week. And it's like, Firehose of information.
I love that you said that David because I remember eating in the in the mess hall and we weren't allowed to talk to each other that, you know, basic training.
We couldn't. He's saying he couldn't really get to know people. And so, you know, I said to my friend, like, out of the side of my mouth, you want to go? She's like, I'm ready. So, like, go out. But, but he's not kidding that that is an intense experience because it really is about the internal you, you know, Facing everything else that's around [00:50:00] you.
It's a very, very intense experience. And so, like I said before, that, that closeness to God or, or that, that inner side of yourself, you, it's, it's pretty intense in the military.
Thanks for letting me share. No, I'm glad. And David, thank you for sharing that faith. Promoting story because you, I remember when you went, I mean, you left your family.
Where was it? Where did you have to go?
Uh, San Luis Obispo, California.
Yeah. Like you were gone, left your family. Was it your freshman year? I
think it was my eighth grade year actually.
Oh, even younger. And that's scary. And how awesome that you knew and trusted. And then that, like, I just love how you said at the beginning, it compounds, like you'll have more and more experiences like that.
And it just compounds your faith. Yeah. That is so cool, David. Thank you. What about you, Larissa? Um,
yeah,
there's so many verses, right? I know. How do I ask a Seminary Institute professor to choose one out of all these? You don't have to. Go for
it. You're so great. I think the thing I've been thinking about lately is the idea of miracles that come after your faith, like in verse 16.
Even all they who wrought miracles wrought them by faith, even those who were before Christ and those who were after, right? And it was by faith that the three disciples obtained a promise that they should not taste of death and they obtained not the promise until after their faith. So you keep seeing him say this this idea in verse 18 and verse 30 where he talks about You're not going to see The benefit until after you're not going to see the miracles and and the scriptures that say that miracles follow them that believe right sometimes we want God to pay up first, but he is not a God that that gives first is a God that asks us to do the work and then he will give us the reward or or the miracles just kind of come as a result of who you are.
Right? Of what you're doing. And I think that's an important thing to note because he, he's not, he doesn't do the credit plan, right?
Right. Wow. You three, you did such an awesome job on this discussion of faith, but we're not done because in the next segment, we're going to talk about how Moroni says, but what about those of us who maybe struggle a little bit?
Can we still have faith and can amazing things happen? We'll discuss what that is in the next segment.
Let's go into Ether chapter 12, because now we have a couple of verses and we've read them before. And there's one that you're going to be very familiar with because it is a scripture mastery scripture. But if anyone's out there thinking, okay, but. What if I'm not capable of having enough faith? What if there's something, like, I've got a lot of weaknesses.
I'm not that great. There's really good news for you. Rack it off Ether chapter 12 verses 23 through 27. And this weakness of Moroni's kind of blew me out of the water. In verse 23 it says, And I said unto him, Lord, the Gentiles will mock at these things because of our weakness in writing. For Lord, thou has made us mighty in word by faith, the Gentiles But that has not made us mighty in writing for the house made all this people that they could speak much because of the Holy Ghost, which that has given them.
I think it's interesting to me that he's saying we're not that great at writing and people are going to make fun of us because we're not that great. In fact, he even says in verse 24 and now has made us that we could write that little because of the awkwardness of our hands.
Doesn't your heart go out to him?
I don't know if it means he really can't write or if it's hard to write on the plates because they're gold. Like, it's
probably hard to bang symbols in the metal over and over and over again.
It's awkward. And he's like, we're not that good at it. We're really struggling. And at the end 25, it says that was also made our words powerful and great, which she appreciates, even that we cannot write them.
Wherefore, when we write, we behold our weakness and stumble because of the placing of our words. And I fear less the Gentiles shall mock at our words. So there's a lot of fear and everybody has fear. Isn't that interesting? How fear starts to creep in and the moment fear does it's a game changer. And it changes in war.
It changes at things at boot camp. Like you can't, it's like a dog senses fear. I think so do people in the military, like your captains, right? Can they sense your fear, Larissa, at boot camp? That's what drill sergeants are paid
for.
Wow. Okay. So I'm going to have a question about this then, because here he is saying he has these weaknesses and then he gives us the verse of all verses. And the Lord says to him saying in verse 26, fools mock, but they shall mourn. And my grace is sufficient for the meek that they shall take no advantage of your weakness.
And then verse 27, here we go. And if men come unto me, I will show unto them their weakness. [00:55:00] I give unto men weakness, that they may be humble. And my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me. For if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
Lincoln, you just said it perfectly. It's their job to humble you. It's their job. Why is God the greatest drill sergeant ever? Because right here, isn't he trying to make you weak or humble?
Well 100 percent so like at least in boot camp like the entire goal of boot camp is to break you down and to turn you into What the military needs like that's the goal of any type of military training any school Anything is to take you take what you were before break you down and build you back up into what they need And so I feel like god works a very similar way where he gives you trials that will break you down And then experiences that will help you build back up and through those trials and that will turn you into a stronger person Who then knows how to Um, help other people through those type of trials and as well as deal with those type of trials for yourself in the future.
So, and give you, I guess, I would say a spiritual toolkit for how to deal with those type of things for yourself and others. And you can share those tools and you can keep them for yourself as well.
Okay. But the drill surgeons aren't breaking you down because they're mean.
No. It's not because they hate
you.
It's because you're about, you're about to go into a war zone. People. People. Die as we see at the end of Ether, you know, 13, 14, 15. Like people are dying. And the reason that you need to be able to take command and direction is so that you can stop the death so that you will know how to move forward. And if this war that was in heaven is still happening on Earth, then we have to be able to take the commands of our greatest drill sergeant, right?
The Lord of the sub oath. We have to be able to take his instructions so that we can help the people. That's and that's why you get broken down so that you will be built back up and they did that I mean, I love what Lincoln said because at first they weren't scary I mean, I remember coming off the buses and having them just yell at us and you know
Yelling and dropping f bombs everywhere just in your face You know, I mean, it was petrifying at first, but then when you get to talk to them, they were, I loved them. I know that sounds so silly, but I, I really looked up to them because they were just such good, good people. Go ahead.
Yeah, it's like, it's definitely also, from what I've heard, it's very personally motivated for drill sergeants because, um, they know that it's going to be people like you.
That are in, for instance, if you are in a combat zone, it's gonna be people like you who are in the, who are in that combat zone with them and the way that people, at least I've heard described combat zones is like the only people you can rely on are the person to the left and to the right of you. And so their job is to basically ensure that every single person to the left of you and to the right of you is the exact, is, At the same standard is that the same skill which gets people home like that's their job at the end of the day is to get people home by proxy.
Oh, can we write that down? That's the, that's the, that's the goal of Heavenly Father is to get us home by proxy. Wow, Lincoln. David, I want to know when you did your mini boot camp, did you have an experience like that? Did they try to break you a little bit?
Oh, yeah, for sure. Three days. They're like telling us to hurry up all the time.
They're screaming in our faces. I'm like, and they weren't allowed to swear, but you can tell that they wanted to say many words so badly. Like, you can just you can just sense that they were going to say the F word if they could.
They weren't allowed to swear. Well, you were in eighth grade. Yeah. Yeah.
16 years old.
My ears
burned , like what I heard. Um, David, what would've happened if you had yelled back at the drill sergeant or if you had gotten mad and, and walked off?
I'm sure if this was the, if it was the actual military, I'd probably get a nice hefty court martial and probably served federal prison time, or as if it was this article
15.
I would get to talk to chief, I'd get to talk to adults, and I'd just be sent home and probably just kicked outta Sea Cadets. But at the time I was like pretty dedicated and I'm like, and I was, I was also just too scared to really do it because I feared what they could do. And I, and they looked like they could punch someone if you disobey them.
So I'm like, you know what? I can handle the yelling. Just don't punch me.
Well, they'll PT you to the ground too. That's what I
was going to say. The physical therapy.
Front leaning rest position. Move. Oh my goodness. Exercise. One. Two. And then just. You're
down doing your pushups and they go. One, two, and you'd have to go up, one, and they just told you there, one, one, one, and you just,
oh, it burns.
It is so, I also did not want to be the most hated guy in the group because everyone does it as a team. Yeah. Like [01:00:00] part of the breaking down thing is stop thinking individually and start thinking as a team.
Mm hmm.
Benefit the team or would this benefit you? I just did not want to like, be the reason people have to do more push ups.
So I'm just like, you know what? Let's hope everyone else can clutch up because
I
can't go with it.
I cannot get over how many spiritual applications there have been in this last 10 minutes of us talking. It, it blows my mind because in my, I'm thinking, but, but a loving heavenly father and a loving heavenly mother wouldn't break you down to build you up.
They just filled you with the love. Positive words and like we have to be willing to let him show us our weakness. And I think, like I asked David, I think a lot of us just turn around and walk away when we're shown our weakness or we want to swear back at. The drill sergeant, when really it's just Heavenly Father, like, I'm just trying to help you.
I'm showing you your weakness. And so if you're going to be humble, then you can have faith. And I love at the end, I make weak, he says right here, I, then will I make weak things become strong. Like there's no other way. You just have to be willing to do it. And when Moroni is writing, let's go into Ether chapter 12, and I want us to read verses 39 through 41 because he's in verse 38.
It says, I'm Moroni, I bid farewell into the Gentiles. Like here it is. He's ending his about face and he's like, you know what? After all of this, here's what I'm gonna say to you. And so, David, can you read, we'll each take a verse. We'll go David, and then we'll go Lincoln and then Larissa.
And then shall ye know that I have seen Jesus, and that he hath talked with me face to face, and that he told me in plain humility, even as a man telleth another in mine own language concerning those things.
And only a few have I written, because of the truth. My weakness in writing,
and now I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written that the grace of God the Father and also the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of them may be and abide in you forever.
Amen.
A man highlight seek this Jesus. I just think it's beautiful how he's like, I'm still weak in writing. But because of my humility, I got to see the face of God, and I'm just telling everybody, just do it. Like, be willing to get broken because the goal of that and to just do it by seeking Jesus. I love these words.
That was so good. That was so good. So thank you. Thank you for sharing those. And those connections were so cool with the bootcamp. I am going to always forever, in fact, I'm writing next to verse 27, God is the best drill sergeant. I don't want to forget this. So turn with me to Ether chapter 14. And all we're going to do is look at the section heading, Ether Chapter 14.
And here's what you need to know at the very end. I love Larissa's face. Why did you do that face? Read it.
Oh, it's so ugly, right? The next two chapters are, are really, really awful. They're
so awful. It says blood and carnage cover the land. I mean, whoever wrote that. Well written. That was good. So we have so much more that's taking place in Ether chapters 14 and 15 and in Ether chapter 15 verse 2.
Let's go there and Lincoln. Yeah, you read that for us because you kind of alluded to this already.
Yeah. He saw that there had been slain by the sword, already nearly two million of his people, and began sorrow in his heart. Yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
Thank you. Like, two millions. This is kind of neat, because in Hebrew, the word millions, Is a Hebraism. If it ends with, it's called plural amplification. Instead of saying nearly two million of his people, which is what we would have written in Hebrew, you add a plural so that you can emphasize like it's probably more.
But what I'm trying to tell you is so many people died to millions. It's just wanting us to get the feel for it. That's a lot of people. So many people. So in the next segment, we're going to see how this affected King Coriantomer.
I'm going to turn this one over to private Wilhelm Waldron because I loved her perspective on this, these chapters, um, specifically ether chapter 15. So hit it. I'm not, that's all I want to say. I can't wait.
All right. Who are you guys ready?
That's an army thing. We don't, Air Force doesn't really do that.
Oh man. It's a, it's a great, it's an all encompassing let's get together. Let's do this. Let's pretend. Let's pretend. Let's answer it. Here we go. Hoo wah! Hoo
[01:05:00] wah! Hoo wah!
That's good. It needs to be a little more guttural, but that'll work. Oh, yeah. You
gotta push it with your chest.
It's not like, Hoo wah!
Hoo wah!
I could cut it. Get down, Tammy!
You know, just to start out and I want to go back to kind of what you were saying about the carnage, right? We look over at chapter 14 verse 21 and, The whole face of the land was covered with the bodies of the death of the dead and in 22 It was so swift and speedy that there was no one left to bury the dead and in 23 the scent thereof Right goes forth on the face of the land.
It is Horrific, and I know my friends who actually have been to war War is horrific. Um, so we, we talk about training and we talk about all sorts of things. I know people have come home injured. I know people have come home, you know, with PTSD, horrific PTSD, war is horrible. And, and I think the thing that kills me about the millions is what an absolute waste of human potential, right?
All of these, all of these people are children of God. All these people are beloved and have divine ability to become something incredible and their whole lives are wasted because of one emotion and that's what we're going to get into if that's alright with you.
Yes.
Well, first of all, could you guess before even looking what emotion do you think led to all of this?
What do you think Lincoln David?
I'm guessing you probably the main emotion was just hate
Yeah,
like whenever I read the Book of Mormon every and in between all the wars I see like a lot of hate for like other people and they usually just go to war over it.
Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I agree and we could go through you know We've got people who are angry because of the division like Tammy pointed out I'm We have a lot of people who are, who are hating the other people, but the one emotion I want to look at, take a look at Ether chapter 15, verse six and verse 22, Tammy, do you want to take six?
Yeah. Here we go. And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity and the people of Coriantum were stirred up to anger against the people of shiz. And the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr. Wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.
Okay. So much
anger.
So much anger. Anger is an important emotion. Anger is one of the emotions that Heavenly Father gave us for protection. Right? One of the things that they wanted us to do when we were in the military was we were supposed to harness our anger. My problem was that I wasn't very good at it, because I have the happy gene, so it's kind of hard for me, but it, you know, it is, it is a good emotion for certain things, but it also can create a lot of problems, right?
For example, look over in verse 22. Um, David, do you want to pick up 22?
And when the night came, they were drunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine, and they slept again upon their swords.
Okay, let's think about the word drunken, right? What is someone like when they're drunk? We've seen it in movies, we've seen it go on.
What do they like?
Not the best thinker. Good one.
Yeah, yeah. Not, not the best thinker, right? The reason that the police make them walk the line is because
They don't have coordination. Bullshit.
Coordination, right? They're not thinking. Well, I love that. And so one thing that I wrote to the side of verse 22 is with the drunken with anger.
They're so angry. They can't even think straight. Have you been in a situation where you've been maybe angry at like a sibling or a parent where you just can't even control what you're doing because you're so full of rage, right?
I have said those words. I am so angry. I can't even see straight. I have said that before.
Yeah, you, you just get to this point where it is and you do need to put yourself in timeout. You do need to put, you know, a break on what you're doing because you, you cannot, it, it just seethes through you, right? Yeah. This, this anger, right, this emotion is something that, that Satan, In Doctrine and Covenants section 76, it says that the sons of perditions are vessels of wrath, right?
They are, they're, they're holders, like a vessel is a cup of anger. That's, that's what they do. That's what they've chosen to live in. That's the emotion that they've chosen to spend their lives in. So, um, even though Coriantomer wants the people to repent, right? He finally comes to a point where, where he's feeling sorry about what he did.
The [01:10:00] people are so gone because he has never You remember what we learned in, in chapter 13 verse 2? He didn't restrain them at all. And then you look over at, as they're getting together, look in verse 14. Lincoln was talking about time at the beginning. Lincoln, in chapter 15, verse 14, how long were they getting ready for this war, this final war?
Those in here, four years.
Four years. Four years of preparing for this mortal combat, this final war. Do you think that maybe in the four years? He could have pulled out the profit.
Well, 100 percent because a lot of things could happen in four years. Four years is a lot of time, but I mean, that definitely speaks to the state of like everybody's like, I guess, mental state at the time where it's like, Even in four years, it didn't shift what they wanted to do.
So it's like if someone's gonna like wait four years to do something, they're gonna, they're gonna do it. There's nothing you can really do to stop them at that point. Unfortunate, but it's true.
That's a great point, right? Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he should not depart from it.
Anger. So now I want to take you to a cross reference scripture that I invite you to write to this side. This is 2 Nephi 28, and this is verse 19 and 20, talking about what our society is going to be in the last days. Lincoln, do you want to take 19 and David, will you take 20?
Okay. For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance.
The devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger and perish.
For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
That is his primary tactic. His primary tool is this tool of anger. And if we don't, if the Lord doesn't stop him, Right, then people are going to be so stirred up to anger that they're not going to be able to be gotten back.
Isn't it interesting that our prophets and apostles keep saying, We need to stop the anger that's going on in our civil dialogue. We need to stop the way that we're not talking to each other in more civil ways. But, but also interesting he says, The Lord has to shake up the kingdom. You remember the weakness that we were talking about, the drill sergeant?
It's got to get shaken up so that the anger won't take out his people the way it has in ether and Mormon. So we're going to do a little experiment. You guys willing to do an experiment with me? Yeah, yeah, kind of kind of just about about this, and I want you to pull out a piece of paper, and I want you to write down a question about something in your life that's frustrating, and I want you to, if you could talk to God, what would that question be?
You do not have to share it with any of us. I just invite you to write down a question. Okay, that's all we're going to do. So you at home can do that, too. Just pull out a piece of paper, a question about something that's frustrating, invite you to just write it down, something that you would ask God. Go ahead.
Okay. We ready?
Yep.
Okay. So when I was your age, I probably would have written something like, I hesitate to say it because I love him now, but my brother was a total jerk, like a jerk. My brother would have said something like, how come you gave me such a jerk for a brother, right? I adore him now, but at the time it was kind of hard.
So what I want you to do is I want you to look at that question that you wrote, and I want you to write the emotion that that question is set in by the site of that question, right? What is the emotion that you're feeling? When you ask that question.
Okay, and you don't have to tell us the question, but tell me what you got. What's the emotion?
Well, the emotion with my question is I feel so sad. Totally get that. The question I would ask makes me want to cry.
Yeah. No, I get that. How about you, David?
Mine's like curiosity.
Okay, that's good. See how good he's doing?
Because he knows we're going to talk about anger. No, I'm just teasing. I'm just teasing you, David. Okay, Lincoln, how about you?
I'd say exhaustion.
Tired of fighting it.
Yeah.
Yeah. No, I get that. Go ahead, David. You were going to say something else. I'm sorry.
Angry ish curiosity, but also like pure curiosity, if that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. Kind of frustrated about why is it this way? I'm curious, but I'm, I'm frustrated maybe a little. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can understand that. And my question about my brother, it was angry. Why is he a jerk?
I mean, listen, I'll say about the question that I [01:15:00] wrote. Anger got to the reason why I have to write the question.
Isn't that interesting? Yeah. Like anger plays a really big part of my question in that I don't feel it. They get our emotion when I look at my question, but I would say anger got me to the point where now I have to ask this question. Right,
right. It is so amazing that he works on our mind and heart in that way.
And so we're going to just take that question and we're going to try and reframe it with maybe a different emotion. And you guys don't have to do this right yet. Let's just use my question as an example. We're going to rewrite the question. Why is my brother such a jerk? Will you guys help me take that question?
And let's think of like two questions that might change the emotion of that question. Okay.
Well, I would say, what can I do to help me understand my brother more? Because so like a lot of times, at least with siblings. So it's because a lot of times you don't understand where they're coming from, or there's also like, can be a maturity gap.
So it's like, what can I do as a person to be able to understand them more and be able to, I guess, cause it's oftentimes as much as I don't like to admit it. Cause I mean, me and my brother didn't always get along. It's a two way street. So it's like, what can I do to take away from the problem and to benefit a solution?
I love that. I love that. Any, any thoughts from you, David?
I kind of had the same thing with my brother. Like we used to be like glued at the hip and then we fought, fought a ton and I don't know what it was. And then we just took like a hard factory reset.
And
then we just started like building from there.
And then we're like, Oh, okay. Yeah, this makes sense. Now.
I love that. So maybe how can I reset things? You know, how can I, how can I start over in, in that? I want you to take your question and I want you to at least write one, maybe two questions that would change the emotion in your question to God. Go ahead.
And again, these are personal questions that I don't need to know about. But Tammy, you said, Hmm, what happened? Tell me about it.
Then I started to focus on Like, kind of going back to what Lincoln said, they were how, not why and anymore, it was how, how can I, um, yeah, my question changed to what can I do?
Yeah, I got to tell you as a parent, I love my babies. I love them, but when they come at me with anger, I can't, I can't do the anger with them, but if they come up to me and they say, what is happening? Why is this happening? You know, and they want to work with me. Absolutely. I'll bend over backwards to give them answers and help.
And I'm wondering if if we change our emotion with our heavenly father, because we'll be in a place of understanding, like Lincoln said, understanding and and David said about his brother, maybe a hard reset with God and come to a place of understanding because the the the waste Of that anger with Coriantum, right, means that every last thing that Ether said came true and he was alone with no one left after millions and millions and millions.
What a, what a waste, what a destruction, and I don't want that for any of us to not be able to be there rejoicing and celebrating with the Savior. Yeah, this life can be tough, but I, I know he has gifts and blessings that can help us get through it. That's, that's my thought
on that. Thank you so much, Larissa.
Thank you. In fact, you, you said that he was all alone in the end. So here's what I want you young men to do. Lincoln and David, you ready to do this? I want you to finish the story because it's so crazy gory, isn't it?
Yeah, is
it? It's nuts. Okay, both you guys tell us.
Well, it's just basically it's just like the end.
It's the final Confrontation everybody is so wounded that they can barely stand up straight They're passing out because the blood loss everybody's just dying and then it gets to the point where it's just coriander and shiz and so They're going each other shiz faints because he lost so much blood And then, Corianimer, he rests for a bit, he leans upon his sword, he rests, and then he, and then he beheads Shiz, and kills Shiz.
And then, after he killed Shiz, Shiz raised up his hands, he died, and then Corianimer fell to the earth, because he had lost so much blood, and he was as if he had no life. And so, and that's just basically the end, and it's just, uh,
You just have to read verse 31. It's probably the craziest.
And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised upon his hands and fell, and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
I mean, nice. That's it.
[01:20:00] Like, and part of me was like, like the part in my brain said, Just started singing. It's the final countdown. I'm like,
You
bet
it is.
It's like one of those things you're like, really? Just going to end it like that? Yeah. No, like, dramatized part, like, just like that? Just over.
Over, over.
And in fact, next to verse 32, put this cross reference. Omni, chapter 1, verse 21. because Coriantum or then that takes us all the way back to the very beginning of the Book of Mormon. You guys, because remember the ether happened way before it's
the prequel. It's the, it is
the prequel to the Book of Mormon.
If we were studying the Book of Mormon in order of time, ether is the first book you're studying because now Coriantum or he's going to hook up with the people of Mosiah. And you can read about that in the Book of Omni. And wow, we have the connection and their records and all that craziness. So. That's it.
That's the end of our discussion. You guys are awesome. Thank you. Okay. So gather your thoughts. And I always ask my guests at the end of every episode to just share what's your takeaway from reading these chapters in ether or what's your takeaway from our discussion today? Is there a point that stood out to you or a moment that you're like, Oh, I hope I remember that.
I mean, I'd say for me, um, biggest thing is don't be afraid to apply it for yourself. Um, make sure you like, remember the type of things that happened. And it's a really unfortunate turn events. It's like a couple million people wiped off the face of the earth. Like, it's not exactly something to like exactly smile at, but it's like, use it for yourself and prepare yourself that like you would be able to avoid making the same decisions that would cause that
great takeaway.
Some of the, I kind of took part is you just humble yourself and you admit that you need help and. And you just have trust in your Lord, then everything will figure itself out. There'll be a, there'll be like a, like a blind path in front of you. That's kind of what faith kind of is, is you're just walking a blind path and trusting that it's being built in front of you.
Amen.
Amen, brother. Larissa, it, it doesn't have to be bad. It really doesn't. Like we as a, as a whole world can be ready for the savior. We don't have to end in, in utter destruction. People keep saying, well, it has to be so wicked. I, I think it's wicked enough. I just, I just want 'em to come and I want us to be better and I wanna save everybody that we can.
I hope we do. It doesn't have to be that way. We can seek this Jesus. Oh,
yes. I like how you ended with, we can seek this Jesus. It's all we have to do is seek him. Thank you, Larissa. I will tell you my takeaways because I wrote them down. David, I loved it when you shared your experience about your pregame prayer.
And then I thought of the idea of a pre war prayer. And all the times that we should be praying because they just, Like you said, they compound until we really need it the most. And I think we're in the middle of that, so we just can't stop praying. And then Lincoln loved it when you said the goal is to get us home by proxy.
I just, that was so cool about that idea of being in war and what it's like to have one person on your right, one person on your left, and you have to trust in each other and be equally yoked to fight and know the person next to you can have your back. That was so cool. And then Larissa, Oh my gosh, seriously, I loved your bootcamp story, how you just were so scared because I imagined it being so terrifying and you were there, you did it and you really did rely on the savior.
And so thank you for sharing your experience with that. This is a fun discussion. You guys were awesome. I'm convinced we need the war chapters. So good. You guys are great. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Tammy.
Thanks for having us. Yeah.
Okay. What was your takeaway? I hope it's a military related takeaway because that was such a fun discussion.
Go join us on Facebook or Instagram and maybe share what you've learned. I'd love to know. How you made military connections to this discussion. It was so cool. Then at the end of the week, we ask a question that pertains to this specific lesson. So comment on the post that relates to it and share your thoughts.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday, and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway because it's where we're going to have links to all the references and the transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.
The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participants were David Shern, Lincoln Evans, and Larissa Wilhelm Waldron. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.
com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We will see you next week. And please remember that the greatest drill sergeant ever loves you because you are his [01:25:00] favorite.