The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: The answer is always Jesus. This is what our prophet, President Russell M. Nelson, said to us back in April 2023 General Conference. In the talk, he also encouraged us to, quote, study again the account of the Savior's appearance to the Nephites in the Americas as recorded in 3 Nephi, unquote. Well, That's what we get to do this week.
We are going to study 3 Nephi chapters 8 through 11. And the Sunday on Monday team, we have chosen to do it in such a magnificent way that I think you will say, wow, I will never see these chapters in the same way again. And yep, Jesus is always the answer. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living where we take the come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend Barbara J. Watson from Colorado. Hi Barbara. Now another awesome thing about our study group, as you know, is each week we're joined by two of my friends.
So it's always a little bit different. But this week, Oh, this week, I've got more than two friends, but I'm not going to tell you who they are because it's a little bit of a surprise for each segment, but you are going to love what they have to say about third Nephi chapter 11. You can find their info and their pictures and bios later in our show notes at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and let's dig in together. Now, normally I ask my guests to share what the Holy Ghost taught you as you read Third Nephi chapters eight through 11, but this week is a little bit different. I said earlier that we do have many guests and these guests are going to help me teach this scripture block with their incredible artistic talents and abilities.
There's a little teaser for you. I can tell you this. If I had learned Third Nephi 11 this way, I wouldn't have had the experience that I did in the MTC. So I'm going to share that with you because I know I've joked about it a lot, but this is what happened to me. And this is what the spirit taught me many, many years ago.
So we received an assignment by our teacher in the MTC to read third Nephi 11. All right. No big deal. I'm very obedient kids. So I was like, I'll do it. Now, mind you, I had read the book of Mormon before going into the MTC. I read a verse every night by the bedside of my table, or I try to read a couple of verses, but I'll be honest, I had a teenager mind.
And so as I was reading through Nephi 11, I'd also be thinking about what I was going to wear. Who I was gonna talk to the cute boy in my class. I just I had a hard time focusing. And so when I got into the MTC and they said, read 35 11. I didn't know what that was. So I got up there on my top bunk. I had a bunk bed in the MTC.
I had two other companions and I started reading 35 11. And when I got done with 35 11, I looked up at my companions completely gobsmacked and with shock and awe, I said, Did you guys know Christ came to America? Like, I said it to them as if they didn't know. And I thought, I gotta tell the world about this.
They looked at me and started laughing. I was like, no, no, I've been a member my whole life. I knew the little stream said give. Um, I did not know that Christ had come to this American continent. And it just blew my mind. It was absolutely amazing right there in that room. And it felt like a dorm room. I felt the spirit so strong and I knew that the Book of Mormon was the word of God and that Jesus Christ truly loved the world.
All of God's children, all of the people on the earth, enough that he would take the time to show himself to the people on the American continent. It just makes sense. And I remember after I read that, I thought, I want everyone to know. I want everyone to know what happened in 3511. I want everyone to know.
And so today I want everyone to know, I want you to know what happened in 3rd Nephi 11. So we are going to take a look at 3rd Nephi 11 in a very unconventional way, so that we will hopefully fill the spirit and want to share its message with everyone we know. So in the next segment, I'm going to introduce you to one of our four guests, and we will get to see 3rd Nephi through their eyes and experience with this amazing piece of history.
Segment 1
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[00:04:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So I have to tell you, I had a very interesting experience about this specific artist. Here's what happened. I had been praying so hard to know who should be on this episode. And early one Sunday morning, I woke up and this is exactly what popped into my head. These words, they felt the wounds in his hand inside.
And that's all I had, and I knew it was a song, but I didn't know what song it was. So, I got my phone, and I googled those lyrics. They felt the wounds in his hand and side. And then I put LDS after it, and sure enough, A song popped up and I knew this song because it was sung by the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square, April, 2023 General Conference, the closing number.
And that song hit me so hard. I remember telling my husband. We have a TV that you can go back and record. And I said, go back, go back, go back. You have to record this song because I was crying. I had been so touched by the spirit with this song and I'm not going to tell you the name of it, but you did hear just a little bit of a clip of it, but as we were coming into this segment and I'm going to let my artist tell you about this song.
I am so excited to introduce you to Jan Pinborough, who had something to do with this song coming about. Hi, Jan. Hi. Oh, thank you so much for inviting me. Well, I was so excited because if you scroll to the bottom of the song, you're going to find out it says that the words were by Elder Faust and Jan Pinborough.
And when I saw your name, and they always put the year that the person was born and then if they were deceased, and you hadn't. So, I hurried and looked you up, and I sent you a message on Facebook, and then I called everybody who I thought might know you, and someone did, and they gave me your email. And within two days, we were talking and scheduling the episode.
And so, Jen, I want you to tell everybody, what's the name of the hymn, and tell us your involvement with that hymn.
[00:06:20] Jan Pinborough: Well, the hymn is called This is the Christ, and, um, it was recently released as a part of the new hymn collection, which will be published in print at the end, I believe, of 2026. But hymns are going out in small batches digitally, uh, every few months, and so this one has recently been released.
And the way this came about was, It's really one of the privileges of my life. I've been a writer and an editor for many years and Michael Moody, who wrote the music to This is the Christ is the second cousin of President Faust. And at the time that I got involved with this, I was working on the church magazines and also I was serving as a tech specialist for the general music committee.
And in that assignment, I. You know, would edit texts and sometimes I would write texts and Elder Faust had asked his cousin, Michael, if they could write a song together sometime, and he sketched out some thoughts. And, um, Michael asked me to help by turning them into, uh, a hymn text. And so that's what happened.
And it was a very memorable experience because, um, the thoughts that he had were of a sacred nature, you know, I don't think there are two more sacred events in the entire history of the world then. What happened in Gethsemane, and what happened when the Savior visited the Nephites in the Book of Mormon.
And so, the fact that these dealt not only with those events themselves, but with a special witness of the Lord, Elder Faust, bearing his own special witness of the Savior, um, it just, Was a really sacred experience and going to third Nephi I just like to read a verse and it came to pass that the multitude went forth and Thrust their hands into his side and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet and this they did Do going forth one by one until they had all gone forth and did see with their eyes and to feel with their hands And did know of a surety that and did bear record that it was he of whom it was written by the prophets that should come.
And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord. And I just have kept thinking about this word witness, because witness has several meanings. It can mean to attest, to testify, to be a legal witness, but it also means to know for oneself, to have direct knowledge of something.
And so I found last night I was looking at some of the early and later talks of Elder Faust, and I found it most interesting that he said six months after he was called to be a special witness. And this talk was given at BYU in March of 1979, and he said, I am the most newly called of the special witnesses.
No one in the world has more recently experienced. The sacred happenings of coming to the sacred calling that I, and then he said, each has to receive his own witness concerning Jesus as the Christ. I wish this morning to set my seal upon this knowledge. So he was basically saying, I want to bear official witness of these things.
That I know of Jesus Christ at the end of his talk, he said, I now wish to set my seal a testimony upon these events and upon the divine calling of Jesus as our Lord, Savior and Redeemer. In my capacity as the newest special witness. And so this was an early, um, wish of Elder Faust, was to set his seal to express his testimony as a special witness.
And, That is really what this hymn does.
[00:10:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So Jan, I'm so curious then, tell me what that experience was like for you. How did you go about writing these words?
[00:10:56] Jan Pinborough: Well, so I read his thoughts and what he wanted to express, and then I just wrote them as poetic verse that would fit with a meter that would become a hymn.
There were more thoughts than I could use, and a lot of the wording was taken directly from Third Nephi about quaking. But I'd like to read something else that Elder Faust said. He refers to that statement about wondering how many drops were shed for me. And then he said, I pray that our Savior will heal our souls, dry our tears, and create in each of us a pure heart.
I also pray that we may find shelter in the shadows of His outstretched arms, and that He will be merciful and forgiving concerning our weaknesses, that He will be a Father to the fatherless, and deliver to the needy according to their needs, and incline His ear to our cries. In conclusion, I wish to make a humble declaration and affirmation that Jesus is the Christ, our Redeemer and the Savior of the world.
I do this with all the solemnity of my soul. This testimony has come to me, not alone from a lifetime of study or from reason or logic, but more by personal revelation under the spirit of prophecy. And I still have the lined paper. Um, that I wrote, you know, a copy of it, you know, it came very naturally and was just a very inspiring experience to me.
And, um, Michael Moody actually added the chorus. So, I wrote the verses, Michael Mooney and his wife Maria, um, after the words were created. Michael wrote the most beautiful setting I can imagine for these words. It starts with the, an upward notes and reaching heavenward where the voice was coming from.
And I just want to acknowledge that much of what people feel when they experiences him is the beauty of the musical setting. So I'm very grateful to Michael Moody for that. And so this all came back to thoughts. You know, expressed by Elder Faust based on Third Nephi and then based on the Savior's experience in Gethsemane.
[00:13:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I wanted to know, how long did it take you to write this? Because we, at one point in our podcast, studied the hymn, Teach Me to Walk in the Light. And from the research I found, it took five tries before that song was right. Like, it kept going back to the board and they were like, nope, you gotta fix certain things.
And so, five different tries before it was finally like, okay, this is good. How long did it take you to write it? Did you have a hundred tries? Because in my mind, I'm like, it would have taken me months.
[00:13:52] Jan Pinborough: You know, it took a few minutes. And as I look at the handwritten words, there's one line that was rephrased a little bit when it was set to music, but it's all pretty much exactly, it just took a few minutes.
And when it was finally set to music and Elder Faust was approving the text, he may have approved the text even before the music, he didn't make any changes at all. Oh my goodness, Jim. But I think this is because it stayed so close to, you know, what is in scripture and what he had wanted to express.
[00:14:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I agree.
I think it was divinely driven. And how neat that you got to be a part of that experience. And just, and your humility and all of this, you don't take credit at all for doing this. That's one of my favorite things about you, is in talking to you before we recorded, you were very clear to make certain that you were just a part of the process.
And that God used you. And this was so divine. And anyone who sings this will probably be able to experience that and feel that. In fact, we're going to highly recommend, use this during this week of studying Third Nephi 11. If you're in charge of hymns, or you know someone who is, get this printed off and have everyone sing it.
I can't even wait till my whole ward sings this hymn. It's going to be amazing. Oh, wow. Jan, thank you. Thank you for writing this and for taking this. Assignments of seriously,
[00:15:21] Jan Pinborough: Well, I've really appreciated you reaching out to me because it gave me a chance to look back over that time, which is many years ago now, and to kind of picture, you know, how that came about.
And it was really a blessing. And also it gave me some time to think about the line that you said came to your mind. Um, uh, they felt his wounds and hands inside. And when I started thinking about how current this hymn feels actually to me, because these people have been through a more harrowing traumatic experience than many of us can really imagine.
But I think all of us, no matter where we live, have probably been through something. It touches me so much that the Savior invited each and every one of them to come and feel his wounds. Um, They came with their own wounds, and he was intimately acquainted with what they were. So some of their wounds could have been self inflicted through their own sinfulness, their own mistakes they had made.
Others were not self inflicted. They were things that had happened to them, but they all did have wounds of their own. And it struck me that he knew them. He knew each of them, and he asked them to come. forward and see exactly what he had done to save them and redeem them so that they could live a life of joy and Knowing that he had paid the price for every sin every wrong Because I've always loved that scripture that says, you know, we are written on his hands.
And I think that's how we were written on his hands in what he did for us. I agree. And one more scripture that has come to mind as I keep going back to this idea of being a witness is from Hebrews 12, verse 1. Wherefore, seek we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses. Let us lay aside every weight.
And the sin of which just so easily beset us. And let us run with patience the race that is set before us. So I feel like this was a cloud of witnesses. This was a multitude of people like us who saw and knew directly what Jesus had done and they witnessed it and they witness it. And uh, Elder Faust added his own witness and his own seal of witnessing.
[00:18:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Jan Pinborough: To that witness.
[00:18:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow, Jan, that scripture in Hebrews now has just come alive. When you said cloud of witnesses, how many times have I read Hebrews? And I've never noticed that line. And you have just pointed that out to me. I want to be a part of that cloud. I want to be in the cloud of witnesses when he comes again.
So thank you for pointing that out, Jan. And thank you for taking the time to talk to us about this beautiful hymn. I am thrilled that it is now part of the hymn book and that we get to sing it. And I hope every time we do. Almost you almost want the person leading to just preface it by saying, we're about to sing.
This is the Christ and give the history behind it so that people really engage and sing with all their hearts to be a cloud of witnesses at that moment in their chapel that day. So thank you, Jan. You're welcome.
Segment 3
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[00:19:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So one of the things that I did as I was preparing for this episode is I went on to the Book of Mormon Art Catalog. Now many of you know exactly what I'm talking about because we have used it throughout this year. to discuss some of the scriptures. This time, though, we're doing a little bit of a different approach.
We're still using artwork, but instead of talking about the artwork, I've invited the artists. This is so thrilling for me because one of the artists stood out to me the most, and his name is Paul Stephen Romeri-Grass. And so much of his artwork is third Nephi chapter 11. And so I'd like to introduce you to Paul.
Hi, Paul.
[00:19:45] Paul Romeri-Grass: Hello. Thanks for welcoming me. So friendly. Such good energy. Wow.
[00:19:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Paul. I seriously, I cannot get over how much of your artwork, because one of the things you can do is type in the scripture reference and then you start looking at all of the art. And so I typed in 3rd Nephi 11 and I just kept clicking on all of these beautiful pieces and everyone had your name on it.
Almost everyone. There's a few that didn't, but a lot of your artwork is 3rd Nephi 11. And so I just thought we have to have him on. I just need to know. Paul, first of all, tell us, of all the scriptures you could paint, why did you choose 3 Nephi 11?
[00:20:22] Paul Romeri-Grass: It's the simple answer, and that's the one where, of all the places, that's the narratives I can pull from the most that Jesus interacts, and it's the most powerful part of the Book of Mormon.
When I was on my mission, I went to my mission when the clay beds were settling back in the 90s. And, uh, I love it. To use that quote from Elder Holland, anyway, 30 years ago,
[00:20:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Where did you serve?
[00:20:46] Paul Romeri-Grass: Montana, Montana, it covered a third of Wyoming as well. And um, it was amazing. It was, it was a complete life changer. Um, anyway, we, at that time, the church was having people memorize discussions.
And one of the things that we memorized was 3 Nephi 11 was the crowning point. And I believe it is. I believe that for hundreds and hundreds of years, it was prophesied that the savior would come many, many compelling stories leading up to it, but there is none, uh, more, um, poignant than the savior, uh, meeting, uh, those that were ready and prepared to meet him.
[00:21:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What was your medium? What did you use to do these art? Are they, is it all the same or is it different for your pieces?
[00:21:34] Paul Romeri-Grass: The images that I've seen, they're either oil on canvas, but it's all oil paint or oil on board. Um, but it's oil painting. I don't think I have any drawings of that, um, in the catalog that you've seen, but yeah, oil paintings. Uh huh.
[00:21:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And I want to know, how did you get into art? Because that intrigues me. I have this, like, anyone that can paint, I think is incredibly talented because I don't have that gift. And I'm so jealous of people that can just see something and paint it. So I want to know, how did you get into art?
[00:22:06] Paul Romeri-Grass: So just ever since I was in for, I had a, my dad was a professional musician. My mom was an artist and they instilled a passion for the arts. All of them, everything from my grandma was, you know, taught Shakespeare and stuff at BYU. Um, so I grew up in a really, really artsy home. And ever since first grade, I had a formal art class, a visual art class. And I had it ever first grade all the way through AP art in high school.
I'm not a good reader. I, I don't, I can't tell you the last time I read a book from cover to cover. I like to read sections. Um, but I, if, if I were a kid, I was looking at illustrations from, um, you know, some of the greats, uh, great book of Mormon illustrators or Bible illustrators, Harry Anderson, Arnold Freeburg, that's what I was drawn to.
And then it helps me understand the scriptures a lot better. And, and then it's just a lifelong passion. And I've been painting, uh, being a full time artist since 2010. So, um, so that's what I do.
[00:23:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's incredible. So I asked Paul to look over a couple of his prints and I wanted to talk a little bit about them. He has six main pieces. And what I wanted to know, Paul is, is there one specifically that stands out to you or that has a special place in your heart of these pieces, and these won't be in our show notes, so you can go to Book of Mormon art catalog and look these up.
[00:23:34] Paul Romeri-Grass: I would say of all of them, the, the one that I felt the most, uh, energy was One by One.
[00:23:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Why? Tell me why you felt the most energy for this one.
[00:23:48] Paul Romeri-Grass: So a couple of things, um, I, I moved to Denver 14 years ago to mentor with an artist that I just. Was infatuated with his work for probably five years. And I finally got the gumption and his name is Ron Hicks. It's because of how he treated light and how light is in painting.
Um, light is almost a spiritual experience, just like it is in real life. Um, so when I did this one that was in the middle of when I was studying with him, um, and he's, in my opinion, at the time he was the modern day Rembrandt, Rembrandt was the one that no matter what in his paintings, the thing that you always see is that treatment of light.
So in this painting, I have several things that are going on narratively with the head up, the head down, the head to the side. First of all, they're all three of them are women. I purposely did that because it says that his disciples went up one by one. And I would say he loved the women, um, just that was equally treated.
And so I kind of put three, three women. They were, all of them were my friends. Um, And then I, just the way that I treated it with light, it has a spiritual experience that that's when I do my most powerful work versus if I was to render every little thing, every single hair, every single eyelash. You don't see that in this one.
You see more of the. A visual sensation of light movement. That's that was my hope. And that's why it's my favorite.
[00:25:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Okay. I appreciate that you brought up the fact that it's three women. Cause here's my question for you. And I encourage everyone to go and look at Paul's art. Paul, one of the things that I loved so much about your artwork Is you painted so many women and I want to know why you painted women in your art because this year we've been focusing a lot and we have another little side podcast that I do called unnamed women in scripture because oftentimes as I was a seminary teacher, we would have young women say, where are all the women?
Why don't we have their stories? And as I was looking at all of your art, I just gasped because I thought Paul found these women. You found their stories. Why do you paint women?
[00:26:04] Paul Romeri-Grass: I think for, uh, there's many reasons. One of them is that, um, I, I was much closer with my mom than I'm close with my dad now, but growing up, I was much closer with my mom.
I think that's ultimately the reason, um, I felt a strong connection. And to this day, I still have. Somewhat of anxiety around men, you know, but not like it used to be. And my dad was a great person and that, but I think that's the ultimate, the reason for many women in this one in particular, I was interested in the girl.
And I thought I could get a date if she modeled for me. Wow. Did it work? No, my current. Why it did work. And so it kind of was one of the things we did at Utah. I got a BFA. I got an illustration degree from Utah state. Um, and that was one of the things that we just go find people that wanted to, you know, kind of get to know a little more and how to be our models and see if it worked or wouldn't.
But at the same time, this woman had a very, very strong spiritual presence. Um, kind of a similar story was, you Uh, my wife, uh, before I asked her on a date, she was my model for Mary Magdalene painting that I'm currently working on. And from that came what it is. So sometimes I'd use that as, but I think just the overall natural experience.
I also don't like that when, uh, you know, people say it's, um, Just like you said you hit on it very strong. There were lots of women in the scriptures that were overlooked My next book of Mormon painting is the strength of Sariah. So it's going to be Lehi's wife Sariah and just how I think sometimes we look at things in one way But I like to show that there are so many Good instances of them that we don't, we don't think of, we think of what we know in scripture and kind of associate it.
So I try to, try to show there's a lot of, a lot of good stories that we miss, um, especially from women.
[00:28:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, on behalf of all women, Paul, I'd like to say thank you for painting us. And, and I just, I love that. And all of your paintings, you have at least one woman in them. So I thought that was really cool.
So thank you. Okay, Paul. So I want to know then, tell us another story about, because you said your art has a lot of stories. Give us one more story behind a piece of your artwork for 3rd Nephi 11.
[00:28:44] Paul Romeri-Grass: So something that might be of interest is I have not sold a single one of these Book of Mormon paintings. Um, I have, I have used them for, uh, missionary work.
I was the ward mission leader in Denver twice. I, um, I was there for 12 years. Uh, this story in particular was kind of an interesting one, but I painted biblical stuff to, first of all, self, because there's not too many people that buy Joseph Smith in Denver, but they'll still pay a lot for, uh, Biblical scenes.
I did that for five or seven years, just strictly biblical stuff. And I built a really strong interfaith thing that we still have called the Religious Academy. And while I was doing that, I'd do a painting of St. Stephen, getting the first martyr, a drawing of him. And I'd unveil it at a Lutheran church.
I'd call the pastor and unveil the Lutheran church. People that showed up to the unveiling were members of our church, half weren't. And I did that for many, many churches throughout Denver, probably 30 or 40 churches for seven or eight years in hopes to bring Christians together. While I was doing that, I started getting a really strong feeling, start doing scenes from the Book of Mormon.
Elder Packer's talk is one of the strongest resonating talks that I have in my Um, and kind of my, in my mindset, um, the arts and the spirit of the Lord, where he says, why aren't there more images from the book of Mormon? It was given an address at BYU, I think in the late seventies. And at that time, the church was commissioning artists of all faiths besides ours to, uh, create images for their, uh, their temples, Harry Anderson, stuff like that.
And, um, and he was very, very firm on there should, it first. We should be using our time to promote, uh, growth and the gospel and scenes from the Book of Mormon specifically. So that was always lingering in the back of my mind. My audience was built through interfaith, and the problem was that you can't really have a Book of Mormon painting in a Catholic church, for example.
Right. For an event, right? And I went into First Baptist Church, Archdiocese of Colorado, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, all over. Well, I wanted to do something similar with the Book of Mormon in hopes that it would have an audience and ultimately, uh, be utilized, somehow connect people with these stories, as the word mission leader, have them interested in, uh, learning more about the gospel, about the church.
Um, and so, it dawned on me, well, you know, I was single and I'd hang out, I'm an artist, I'd just go to cafes on Saturday mornings. And, or, you know, coffee shops, stuff like that, and it dawned on me. I could be putting a bunch of paintings on the Book of Mormon in a coffee shop, and that's a free audience with thousands of people going through it every week.
And I ended up doing that. And so each one of these paintings were given either as a trade, There is one that I did as a trade for a show that we just had last year here in Utah, the rest of them, I give to the owners of the coffee shop, um, in hopes and in exchange for them allowing us to do artwork on the Book of Mormon.
Wow. Another thing that happened from this is, It's to make the experience more indelible, and you can go to a Book of Mormon, the art tour is what we called it, it's still going on, the images from the paintings, not necessarily this one, but most of them have people that I knew, um, that were members of our church that would, we would unveil the painting, and then that person would talk about their experience as being Lehi or someone like that.
[00:32:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Paul. And thank you for sharing your light and for sharing your art with us, because in all of your, what I think is so neat is that you have focused on light. And I would say in all of your paintings, there is light. And you are light. You are what your paintings are. So thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to do this with us today.
[00:32:51] Paul Romeri-Grass: I am so amazed that I get to do this. We're blessed to have people that are doing what you do. It keeps us strong. So we're grateful.
[00:33:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well thank you Paul. I feel that way about you as an artist and it has been just truly such a treasure to be able to interview the person that created something so beautiful.
And again, thank you for remembering the women. That really means a lot, Paul, so.
[00:33:14] Paul Romeri-Grass: There's a lot more coming.
Segment 4
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[00:33:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In your scriptures, turn to 3rd Nephi chapter 11. Here's what you want to know. A lot of devastation and destruction has taken place, and the people are gathered around the land bountiful, and they're talking one with another about all of the things that had happened. Specifically in 3rd Nephi chapter 11 verse 2, it says they were also conversing about this Jesus Christ, of whom the sign had been given concerning his death.
I just want you to imagine that for a minute. There you are talking about. Well, wow, it really, it really happened. Like what they said would happen, happened. And they're talking about this Jesus Christ. And then as you continue to read in these verses, they have an incredible spiritual experience, but they don't know at first what it is.
They they hear this voice and they're not sure what it is. Three times they hear the voice. And finally, in verse five, it says, they did hear the voice and did open their ears to hear it. And their eyes were towards the sound thereof. And they did look steadfastly towards heaven from whence the sound came.
They were able to see and see this incredible experience. But before they see anything, verse seven, they hear, behold, my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name, hear ye him. Now, we're going to stop there in the story because I've invited an artist to come and talk to us a little bit about a picture that he drew that you can find on the Book of Mormon Art Catalog.
And it is, it took my breath away. It's so good. And I've invited him to come and talk to us about it. And I'm super excited to introduce you to Hunter Evans. Hello, Hunter.
[00:34:57] Hunter Evans: Hi, how are you?
[00:34:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I'm good. I am so this picture is so awesome. And so I'm just going to turn the time over to you. First of all, here's what we were going to want to know, Hunter, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where do you live? How old are you? And how long you've been doing art?
[00:35:12] Hunter Evans: Yeah, for sure. Um, so like she said, I'm, I'm Hunter Evans. So I, I grew up in Cache Valley, Utah. So up north. And I'm in a little town called Logan. So out there. So I've grown up here all my life. I ended up serving my mission in West Virginia and that was a great experience. And so now I'm kind of back home. Um, I got married about a year ago to my wife, Emma. She's awesome.
[00:35:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yay.
[00:35:37] Hunter Evans: And we're just living in Logan. I'm going to school right now. We're kind of just starting our little family and life, so, yeah. Um, and as for art, like yeah, it's kinda just been a part of my life as far as I can remember.
It's always, it's always been there and something that I've practiced, so definitely intertwined.
[00:35:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Tell me about this picture in particular. What inspired it? Where did your inspiration come from?
[00:36:03] Hunter Evans: So when I was growing up, it was between my junior and senior year of high school. So up to this point, I had been kind of just drawing for myself, just drawing stuff that I liked.
I'm a big outdoorsman. I love to fly fish. So I draw a lot of fish. When I was younger, I drew a lot of, a lot of dinosaurs. I loved like ecology and all that stuff. So it definitely influenced that for sure. I started getting into doing some commission pieces for people. It would reach out to me and it really just exposed me to drawing things outside my comfort zone.
I was doing all these pieces and I feel like I was really honing in to my skills and really getting, it, it's cool when you're an artist and you draw something and it surprises you, you know? I feel like that was starting to happen a little bit. I'm like, wow, this is, this is cool. I really like this, you know, um, and so along with that, my, my parents, specifically my mom, I remember her coming to me a few times and she was like, Hey, you should, you should draw a picture of the savior.
I think that'd be really cool of you to do. And I was like, yeah, no, for sure. Like I was on board about it. I just didn't know how I was going to go about doing it. I think like for me a, like it was, it was intimidating because that's a big deal. For me at least and I've seen like other artists do beautiful renditions of him and you know, he means a lot to me So, how do I how do I represent that?
You know, where do I even start? so that was kind of like my Was in my thoughts for the next few months of like how am I gonna do this? you know in like a unique way that's gonna represent him and And really just get that message across of who he is and what he can do for others. So kind of as the story goes, I, I probably thought about it for like three months.
And nothing happened. Really? Alright, yeah, just nothing was coming. Maybe a few ideas, but they just, I didn't, it didn't really pan out. I'm like, I don't think that's it, you know? Um, and so it took me a little bit. Honestly, like it kind of started to fade out of my priority wise. It wasn't at the top, I think.
Just after that time. Um, and I, I still remember the day I was just at the kitchen counter. Just eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as usual. You know? And a conference had just occurred. My mom was listening to a talk in the laundry room next to the kitchen. And it was a talk that was given by Dieter F. Uchtdorf in April 2018 entitled, Behold the Man. Um, and as she was listening to it, I could kind of hear it a little bit. I was paying more attention to my sandwich, to be honest, um, but as the words continued to flow, I really started to think about it. And that's when something happened just out of the blue, uh, an image just appeared in my mind.
It was, I've, I've never really had that happen before or since. Um, but the image that I saw was basically the image that you see now of that picture came right in my head and I, I immediately knew what I needed to do. So I kind of, I, I dropped my sandwich and I went into my, my parents room and I grabbed my phone and, um, I like to base my art off of Reference images.
[00:39:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay.
[00:39:45] Hunter Evans: I really like to just create just make it as real as possible, you know And I felt like it was gonna be important especially for this piece to really just send that message across So and I'm taking a picture of myself kind of just with my hands out maybe in a pose that I thought looked like what I saw and then following that for the next few months I kind of started to Put this piece together And honestly, I look back at my other pieces and this is one of like the smoothest pieces where it's all come together.
Um, probably cause I, I had seen like what the end point should look like, you know?
[00:40:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:40:19] Hunter Evans: And so eventually it was, it was finished and I was trying to figure out a name and I, I felt it was appropriate to entitle it behold the man as the same as the talk, just cause it represents the savior in a resurrected form, you know, and, and in a position where It's just very personal
and I think just seeing those hands in front of you, like, those are the messages that he's trying to send and it has a lot of meaning there.
Um, so that's kind of the story of how it came to be. So a lot of like, trying hard for three months and nothing, and then it's funny how it just comes out of nowhere.
[00:41:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I was struck. This is almost like a Michelangelo esque, Drawing to me, because I'm looking at, I was drawn to the wrists. You must have this incredible working knowledge of anatomy and physiology.
The way you drew the veins and the lines, I like, it's so good. Are you like, are you studying to be a doctor?
[00:41:24] Hunter Evans: No. Well, when you started saying that, I'm like, I do not have any background and I don't study it.
[00:41:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I mean, if you, and that's what's so cool is how you say it just came and it just worked. You can feel that when you look at this, because the way it's drawn, it is right on with where all of the veins and the lines and the tendons would be, gosh, it's so good.
[00:41:46] Hunter Evans: Thank you. Appreciate it.
[00:41:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and then I go back into third Nephi 11. And verse eight, and I know that talk you're talking about, by the way, behold, the man is one of my favorite elder Uchtdorf talks, and I have referenced it so many times, but it's interesting that they've attached your picture with third Nephi chapter 11 and I go into third Nephi chapter 11.
And here we have in verse eight after. They hear the, our heavenly father say to them, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased in whom I have glorified my name. Hear ye him. Verse eight then says, and it came to pass as they understood, they cast their eyes up again towards heaven and behold, they saw a man.
And there it is. They see Jesus Christ descending out of heaven as he was clothed in a white robe. He came down and stood in the whole midst and everybody got to see. And I just think it's that neat connection. Behold the man. And they'll see his prints in the hands and his hands and in his wrists.
[00:42:42] Hunter Evans: Right.
[00:42:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And then the people get to come touch it. Like any other, tell me more what you're thinking.
[00:42:48] Hunter Evans: No, absolutely. Like I think When I look at this, this image and just, I think it's very appropriately tied with those scriptures. Mm hmm. Those are one of those, just those highlight moments where this happens, you know, and those people get to, get to see that in the flesh, like right, like what that would be like, wow, you know, um, and I think it's interesting that, um, Circumstances or events like this happen often scripture all over the place where people just get to have this Experience where they get to to witness it right in front of them, you know, especially in third defy I think looking at it to a kind of in preparation for this and just brushing my memory of the Where this where this picture came from inspiration wise I was watching the The new Book of Mormon videos that they've come out with.
You find just watching, I was just barely watching it. And they, they've done a beautiful job with that. But I think that is pretty close to what I was trying to portray to, you know, when those people get to come up and have that very personal and very powerful experience with the Savior right in front of them, where they just get to see, you know, those marks and like everything that, that he's done for them in a physical form.
Wow.
[00:44:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Absolutely. And, and in verse 8, 15, when it says they, everyone went forth one by one and later in chapter 17, it will allude to there being 2, 500 people will go one by one. I want to know from you Hunter, cause I'm just imagining you having this moment with the savior. After being an artist and drawing this, what do you imagine that moment will be like for you?
[00:44:37] Hunter Evans: Oh, that's a good question. Oh, man. Um, I, I think it'll be a great experience. Um, you know, just having been through this life and, um, just being through like some struggles and just, you know, life's hard, just in all reality, you know. Um, and I think.
Being there in that moment will be, uh, refreshing. It will be, uh, familiar. I like when you point out in those scriptures how it says they understood and then they saw. I think, and it ties along with the idea of when the Savior appears, we'll know Him, because we'll be like Him. I will understand his attributes and his, who he is.
I think when, when I have that experience and, and everyone will, um, wow, it will be so powerful. I like, I can't even like, uh, it's so hard to describe that words. I feel like that's why I drew a picture about it, but yeah, I, I hope that like this image just create, just gives you a glimpse or a helps. People to really see that and the power that's there and really just, I don't know, just try to be, try to be better and try to, to get to know him for when the moment comes that, wow, it's just a wonderful experience.
[00:46:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love how humble your answer was. Because in my mind, I'm imagining it go where you'd be like, in fact, here's probably what will happen, Hunter, is I'm going to yell, Hunter drew you. Hey, everybody, Jesus, this right here, Hunter, he drew you. You got to see this picture. It's absolutely amazing. And then I'll probably ask Jesus to sign it,
[00:46:31] Hunter Evans: there you go.
[00:46:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'll have him sign it for you. I talked to him. It's so incredible. You got to see this painting. It's so awesome. Oh, I didn't even ask you what's your medium. What do you, how did you do this drawing?
[00:46:40] Hunter Evans: Well, for sure. So with this image, it is graphite pencil.
[00:46:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, wow.
[00:46:46] Hunter Evans: Most of my art is that way. I've tried painting in the past. I like it. I just haven't invested as much time as I have into this, but it's just. A lot of layering and, uh, just a lot of fine details you get to play with.
[00:47:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How do you not smudge? I think, well That's a skill set right there that your hand doesn't brush down and smudge all the paint, all the pencil.
[00:47:09] Hunter Evans: Well, sometimes it does.
[00:47:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, okay, that makes me feel a little better.
[00:47:12] Hunter Evans: Sometimes it does. A good old eraser helps with that, for sure.
[00:47:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, alright, alright. Then I feel better.
[00:47:18] Hunter Evans: Yeah, there you go. It's a process for sure.
[00:47:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, this is such an incredible drawing. I love this. I'm so grateful that I found it when I looked up 3rd Nephi 11 and looked at all of the art.
It really did strike me. And I'm grateful that you're available to talk to us about this. So thank you.
[00:47:35] Hunter Evans: Thank you for this opportunity. I, when I saw that message come through, it was just out of the blue and it, it touched me. So thank you.
Segment 5
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[00:47:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Alright, everyone, I am thrilled that this next guest was willing to come back on the podcast. Yes, back. We had her on the very first episode of this year for Book of Mormon, and we introduced the theme, which was Anticipate Christ. That's what we've been doing all year in the Book of Mormon, is anticipating Christ.
He has come, 3 Nephi chapter 11, and so I get to have Hilary Weeks back. Hi, Hill.
[00:48:16] Hilary Weeks: Hi, Tammy. Thanks for having me back.
[00:48:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I'm so, so happy you're here because one of the things we wanted to do is make this episode special. We wanted people to study in a way that they'll remember the story and teach the story to their children and their family members, their neighbors, anybody they know and love about Christ returning to America.
Because one thing we know is Christ is coming. And we are so excited. We're anticipating his second coming, like the people in the Book of Mormon who are anticipating him to return to them. He's coming to us. And when I was thinking about all the music and all the songs, your song, and this is one of my all time favorite songs you've ever written.
And I want to get this right. It's through his name and I love to play it and sing it at the top of my lungs because I anticipate singing this song when Jesus comes.
[00:49:05] Hilary Weeks: I want to be there when you sing it at the top of your lungs.
[00:49:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You'll be with me. We'll be holding hands. I'll, I'll follow your lead. It's such a good song.
And so I have asked Hilary to come and talk to us about this song and these lyrics and then we're going to play it for you so you guys can hear how beautiful this is. And then you're going to add it to your playlist, your church playlist, and you're going to want to hear it every Sunday. So, Hill, tell us about this song.
[00:49:28] Hilary Weeks: Oh, I love that we get to talk about this. You know, some songs that I write take a long time. I tend to be a slow songwriter. There's a handful of songs, though, that seem to just fall into my lap. They come quickly, and Through His Name was one of those songs. I can't remember the year that I wrote it, but I can remember Where I was, and it was early morning, I had the window open because it was springtime and a beautiful breeze was coming in, and I got up specifically to be able to work on this song because I had read a scripture that inspired the idea for this song.
To be honest with you, I can't remember exactly which scripture it was, so I looked up. What it maybe could have been because there are so many scriptures that could have ignited an idea like this
[00:50:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay,
[00:50:13] Hilary Weeks: and the one that I want to share with you is Acts 412 and it says for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved and I remember thinking about all of the savior's names and deciding to put them into a song.
So that's how the song came about. And you can imagine with it being all about the names that we refer to for the savior, you can imagine that that would fall into place. That's a song that of course would want to be written. And I feel like there was Divine help for sure. So I wrote the song. I was really pleased with how it turned out and not too long after that.
I was traveling with a program called time out for women. You may have even talked about it on this podcast, but that was, yeah, that was a big part of my life. I loved being part of time out for women. One time I was traveling home after being in Boise, I was traveling by myself. I went through security and it was back in the day when you had to show the security guard your, your airline ticket.
[00:51:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:51:21] Hilary Weeks: I mean, I don't even, I don't know. That's all you had. Yeah. Yeah. Just my ticket, my boarding pass. That's the word I'm looking for. My boarding. So he looks at my boarding pass after I've gone through security and he hands it back to me and says, have a good flight doctor. And I'm like, wait, what did he just call me doctor?
And for a second, I kind of felt smart. Like, what did, what would that be like to be a doctor? Kept thinking about it, got on the flight. And was wondering what in the world does MD mean next to my name and why did it? Why is it sitting there? And so I asked the flight attendant as she came by with the drinks and the snacks.
I'm like, Hey, what does it mean if MD is next to your name on your boarding pass? And she said, well, are you a doctor? And I said, no, and she said, well, then I don't know what do you want to drink and I kept thinking about it, still got home, told Tim about the experience and he's like, oh, I know exactly what happened when I was booking your ticket instead of checking Mrs. Miss, even Mr. He accidentally checked MD. So for an entire flight, I was a doctor. And can you imagine if they had actually needed someone to help out on that flight? Oh, my gosh. But I've been like, I can kind of take your temperature and see if you feel warm. I might have a band aid in my purse. Right. It's probably opened.
Yeah. It's not sanitary anymore.
[00:52:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: With some residue of gum on it. Yeah.
[00:52:58] Hilary Weeks: Exactly. But it was really interesting how accidentally tagging MD next to my name. Made me feel smarter because it takes a lot of schooling, a lot of education to be a doctor. Doctors are smart. So when someone assumed that I was a doctor, it kind of felt like they were assuming that I was smart.
So then back to the song through his name. As I was researching and looking up names, I found that there are over a hundred names in the Book of Mormon that the Savior is known by and when you think about putting one of those names next to yours. Like MD was next to my name, how does it make you feel?
So if I can, I want to read a couple of the names, just a few that are, you don't, you know, he's known by holy one, prince of peace, lamb of God, author and finisher of our faith, creator, advocate, exemplar, rock, the good shepherd, redeemer, mediator, second comforter. So many amazing names. So how would it feel to have the name Holy One next to your name?
Let's say that you were thinking about that name for the Savior throughout the day. And how did, how would that make you feel or how would that make you act? Would it make you feel more holy or divine? Would your choices be better or more pure? What if you had the name Exemplar? Next to your name. And would you be more aware of your actions and how people watched you?
And would you be an example that was worth following? What if the name second comforter was next to your name? And you thought about that name of the savior all day long. Would you look for people that needed an encouraging word? Would you try to be more kind? And. I just love the idea of even breaking it down into his names that we can put next to ours.
[00:55:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Hilary, just as you were explaining that, I really had the thought like, okay, what, what would I have next to my name? I surely wouldn't qualify for any of these big words right now or these big titles. Um, they're so overwhelming, but what came to me in my mind was I really hope what's next to my name is the word disciple.
And every, as you were talking, I was thinking through everything you were saying, like, how will that change the way I behave? And how will that change the way I act? And what do I think about myself if I'm Tammy, use a black call dash disciple, or if the man at the airport said, have a nice flight, disciple of Christ.
Yeah. And so I, I thank you so much for that story and just the way that I was able to perceive it in my brain, because these titles are so important. And now when you think of Jesus and then you list all of his titles. And you can kind of see why he's so great.
[00:56:05] Hilary Weeks: Oh, for sure. And like you were saying, we wouldn't necessarily think of that title as our own. It would be something that helps us to be more like him to help us to try to become more like him. I love this quote by Ashton. He said, we can make a conscious effort each week to prepare for the sacrament by taking some time. To preferably consider where we most need to improve and then we could bring a sacrifice of at least one thing that keeps us from being like Jesus Christ to the sacrament altar, pleading in faith for help and asking for necessary spiritual gifts and thinking about the Savior and who he is and what he has done from examples that we see in the scripture and from the lives of other people and what he's done for us in our own lives gives us concepts of how we can become more like him.
[00:57:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Brilliant. What a great challenge for us this Sunday when we're sitting and taking the sacrament. That quote is so perfect. So we're going to play Hilary's song through his name. And as you listen to these lyrics, I want you to listen for a title or one of the things that you would put next to your name, or one of the things that you love about our savior, Jesus Christ.
Here's Hilary's song.
Segment 6
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[00:57:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Since the theme this year is Anticipate Christ. I have asked all of my guests, how are they doing this? How do they anticipate Christ as we prepare for the second coming? So I asked each one and here are their answers.
[00:57:51] Jan Pinborough: I guess, um, as I think about that really profound question, I'm going to turn back to that verse in Hebrews where it says, when we have seen this great cloud of witnesses, when we've witnessed things ourselves, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which just so easily beset us.
And let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking into Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest he be wearied and faint in your minds.
So I think my desire, this is not a reality because I very often do fear. I have great anxiety as I look around and see the world today and think about what remains for us to go through as we, you know, have plagues and, you know, difficulties that we know will continue and probably intensify. Um, but my wish and my desire is that, that I will be able to look forward.
And lay aside every weight of my fears and that I can look forward to meeting him and nailing before him with gratitude.
[00:59:26] Paul Romeri-Grass: I think it's going to be an amazing day and all the hurt and all the suffering and understandings that we don't fully grasp, they'll be, they'll be resolved. And it will be a great day.
And it will also be a dreadful day. And I don't see any reason why those that are studying From the Book of Mormon. My wife does not eat anything until she reads a chapter from the Book of Mormon. She won't drink anything. Um, she's the type that will be prepared. Uh, the prophecy is that if you spend time in the Book of Mormon each day, you'll be prepared.
And we've been given that light, and I think it's going to be a great day for those that can, uh, follow that. And I can't wait. I can't wait.
[01:00:15] Hunter Evans: I think automatically my mind goes towards looking at, at 3rd Nephi and just seeing those people's example. Think like when they're in anticipating that, a lot of the time they're preaching repentance and just loving others and just really just the two great commandments.
I think that's a good way to anticipate his coming and preparing for that. So I feel like when now, when we're looking forward to that second coming, I honestly think it's. It's a road map that's given to us already of what we can do for sure, and I think me personally How I try to anticipate his coming is honestly like, like pictures like this, I feel like is a good, I don't know how to say it, but like maybe contribution towards my anticipation.
If that makes sense. It does. Just because I feel like art for me is a, is a great way, is an outlet for me to express my love to God. I know that this talent I've been given is God given. Of course it has hard work behind it too in practice, but it wouldn't have started without God given. Amen. And I recognize that.
And I think it's a, it's a good way for me to give back. And I think as this picture has been out for, for a few years now, just seeing what it's done for others. I am so thankful that I've been a part helping others have those experiences through. This picture, and I think just connecting with, again, just referring back to those two great commandments of loving God, you know, consecrating your talents and building the kingdom, but also I think helping others see that in themselves, too.
I, I can't tell you how many times I, I run into people that they see it and they're, they're touched by it. And then afterwards I, I hear it quite frequently. Like, oh, I wish I was that talented, you know, or do that, you know, I get that, but I think people need to really just see themselves in the talents that they have.
Everybody has talents, you know, they may not be. As physically visual as an artistic talent, but you have them people have them. I think they Just diving in and expressing them and being confident that they're there I think that's a great way that i've come to anticipate it and maybe just food for thought for others to maybe implement it, too Just be confident in yourself.
You have talents too. You have a lot to contribute to this. So That's what I would say.
[01:02:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's a great answer. That's such a great I love that idea of using our talents. And as we use our talents, that's how we can anticipate Christ. That's cool. That's a great answer, Hunter. Thanks. Thank you.
[01:03:10] Hilary Weeks: Oh, man, I think about it all the time when Like when the world feels even more hard when I am reminded of, I feel like there's so much good in the world and I do love to focus on that.
But once in a while, it gets to me. I'm like, this is hard. There are hard things out there that make me feel sad and make me wonder, like, how much longer is this going to go on? on. And then it's those moments when I'm like, Oh, I wish Jesus would come. And if he came today, what would that be like? And how would I feel?
Would I be ready? Would there be things that I wished I had done differently or prepared better? But in general, I, uh, I want him to come. I just like your theme this year of anticipating Christ, Oh, I would be happy if he came today. I'd be happy if he came tomorrow. I want him to come.
[01:04:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. I'm ready. I'm ready.
So I want to know from everyone who's listening, how do you anticipate Christ? I would love to know your answer to that question since that is the theme for this entire year as we anticipate Jesus and his return. So think about that and then share it with us on social media. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have the art that we discussed as well as links to the music. So go check it out. And if you're still wanting to come join us at a magnify timeout for women event, there's still one available. November 9th at St. George, Utah.
So if you're in the Las Vegas area or in Utah close to St. George, come and say hello. Sign up, go to magnifythegood. com and click on events and sign up now and then come say hi to me. The Sunday and Monday Study Group is a Desert Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall.
And today, our amazingly talented study group participants were Jan Pinborough, Paul Romeri Grass, Hunter Evans and Hilary Weeks. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.
Thanks for being here, friends. We'll see you next week. And please remember that you are God's favorite.