The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In this week's episode, we get to study third Nephi chapters one through seven. But before we can go forward, we have to go backward to Helaman chapter 16 verse 23 that says, and notwithstanding the signs and wonders which were wrought among the people of the Lord and the many miracles which they did, Satan did get Great hold upon the hearts of the people, upon all the face of the land.
Now, this verse is describing what it was like right before Jesus returned to the land of Nephi. And according to president Ezra Taft Benson, it also parallels the world that we live in. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living where we take the come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend Carleen Barger Blackmer, my quilt loving friend. Hi Carleen. Another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends.
So it's always a little bit different. But this week it's not so different because we have two good old regulars who I just adore. And we have Abe Mills and Tyler Collet. Hello, you two.
[00:01:18] Tyler Collet: Morning, Tammy.
[00:01:19] Abe Mills: How are you?
[00:01:20] Tyler Collet: Hello, Abe.
[00:01:21] Abe Mills: Glad to be here.
[00:01:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: As we like to call you guys, the dudes, the dudes are back.
[00:01:26] Abe Mills: Happy to be the dudes.
[00:01:27] Tyler Collet: Happy to be the dude. Indeed.
[00:01:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So much fun. Um, okay. Well, we have some really, something very cool for Abe to share, Abe, tell us about your daughter. Cause I think this is really neat news.
[00:01:37] Abe Mills: Yeah. So this is really awesome. My daughter, Mariah, she's going into her senior year of high school and she was chosen to represent the USA, uh, for an AAU international meet, uh, in Bahrain.
And so she's going to the world wrestling championship coming up in October. So super excited about that. And I know she's just tickled to death to be representing the USA.
[00:02:02] Tyler Collet: Wow. So tell me how I got to know how, how, like, what are these thousands of kids that are chosen or how does this work?
[00:02:12] Abe Mills: Well, so it's kind of amazing, but, uh, they chose four girls for each weight class, all around the U S.
And so she was one of the ones chosen. And, um, yeah, I mean, there was definitely like a lot of girls to choose from and she got an opportunity to be chosen and, uh, you know, she earned it, she worked hard, she state champion from last year, as well as a national champion. And they just see a high school champion.
[00:02:40] Tyler Collet: Well, dude yeah, that is unreal. That's unreal. That is so cool.
[00:02:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. Congratulations to her. Yes. Seriously. Give her our congratulations, our luck, our blessings, all of that good stuff. Wow.
[00:02:54] Abe Mills: Thank you. I will. I will tell her. I know she's, You know, she just, she's puts her head down and she works hard and that's what she's doing right now and just trying to get better.
[00:03:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Is there somewhere people can go to follow her story because I'm sure you're going to chronicle it.
[00:03:07] Abe Mills: Oh yeah, for sure. So we'll be definitely covering her story on our channel, Sunshine Mafia on YouTube and then, um, you know, on Instagram you can always follow it and on Facebook as well. So Sunshine Mafia, come check us out.
[00:03:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, we're doing it for sure. That is. Awesome. Oh my gosh. Well, you two have been up to some good things. It's been a great long summer. Here we are. Um, we're getting ready now we're in the fall and we get to talk about the beginning of Christ returning to America. And one of the things that we have talked about this year, we have a theme every year in our scriptures.
So Old Testament was find Jesus. New Testament was follow Jesus, but Book of Mormon, we decided to do anticipate Jesus because that's what this whole book has been about. We're building up to when the Savior returns. And that's kind of our lives right now. All of us are anticipating Jesus. And so I think it's really neat that we get to study these few verses.
And we're going to talk more about president Benson's quote about how it parallels our day. And I'm thrilled to find out how you guys found some parallels. So those of you listening, if you're studying alone with friends, family, however it is, just grab your scriptures and let's dig into third Nephi chapters one through seven.
Okay. You two tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you guys were reading these chapters?
[00:04:31] Tyler Collet: A lot, so
[00:04:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Abe's rubbing his hands together, like he's got something,
[00:04:39] Abe Mills: I'm trying
[00:04:42] Tyler Collet: for me. The, the two things that really stood out to me was number one, don't delay repentance, right? Uh, and then the, the other thing that just kept playing in my head over and over and over was president Nelson's general conference talk back in April of 2018, which doesn't seem so far away, but that was six years ago.
Unreal. That's crazy to me. 2018. That's like, it should have been like last year or the year before, but six years ago. Anyways, uh, what he said.
[00:05:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: But we feel, we feel that way about the eighties, .
[00:05:20] Tyler Collet: Yeah, that's true. True. Definitely. That's true.
[00:05:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Eighties were just last year. Yeah,
[00:05:24] Tyler Collet: I know. Yeah. Serious. But he said in, but in the coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. And that's pretty profound. Cause we're, if, if, if we are not in those last days, we are definitely knocking on those doors and to know that, uh, you know, to survive spiritually is going to be impossible without the Holy Ghost. Oof, man.
[00:05:52] Abe Mills: And it reminds me of this video that the church produced. A while ago with President Nelson on it and there was a man on a plane, I don't know if you remember this or not, but it was talking about how men's hearts shall fail them that one has really, I've seen that so often and reading through this, it just reminds me, you know, as they were going through and you see different people, you know, That probably had to that point been, you know, search goers or, you know, following the gospel and, and decided for one reason or another to, to just switch what they were thinking and switch what they were doing.
And it's just reminds me of that men's hearts will fail them. The other thing that came to my mind is that the gospel is simple and the more complicated that we try to make it. Uh, it, we can lose focus so easily. And so, you know, Satan, sometimes it's, it's easy to see the bad stuff that Satan's doing, but whenever he like makes it seem like so close to what it is that we're already doing, if we get easily distracted, yeah.
[00:07:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, let me, let me ask you this question then. Because I think you're right. We do get easily distracted. And I want to tie that back into Tyler's quoting the prophet about the Holy Ghost. And I just want to know from both of you, after what you read and looking at the world we live in today, how does the Holy Ghost help us survive spiritually?
[00:07:21] Tyler Collet: Well, it's, it's like what Abe said. I mean, the gospel is simple. You know, it, in my line of work, when we're training, we have a, the keep it simple, stupid, you know, the kiss thing. Keep it simple, stupid. Don't over, don't overcomplicate it. Don't overthink it. And, uh, you know, the Holy ghost has its way of letting you know, Hey, uh, this, you don't need to worry about this.
You know, let's focus on A, B and C. You're not even close to X, Y, and Z. So just for me anyways, that's, that's how the Holy ghost helps me is to help me keep it simple.
[00:08:01] Abe Mills: So, yeah, I like that and we, and we just, we just had a, uh, a conference here and there was a visiting authority and he had one of those toys, those little toys that you put don't like donuts on.
And the donuts get smaller as they go up. Yeah. And he said, this is like the gospel. And at the bottom, he said, this is the doctrines of the church. And the next one up is the, uh, is the principles, the principles of the gospel and principles that we live by. And then he went up and he kept going up. And as he was going up, he kept saying, it has to be aligned with that, so, as we, as we get to the top, it's us right now, in personal revelation. And I think a lot of times with our personal relation, we're like, you know, I think this, and then sometimes we could see ourselves shifting that, that top one is like way far away from actually being on top of, you know, the doctrines and The principles and all of these things.
And what he was saying is anytime we find that these things are out of line, we have to make that adjustment to make sure we bring them back online with the document and principles that we live by and all of those types of things.
[00:09:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's such a great visual because when you play with that little game, you're right.
When you put, when you start with the little, the bottom, when you put the bigger ones at the top, it's out of balance, but a great visual that you start with the doctrines of the gospel. And one of those doctrines is the Holy Ghost and the truth. That's so cool. And you can see that play throughout the book of third Nephi, but I think people got out of balance.
[00:09:36] Tyler Collet: How about you, Tammy? How does it work for you?
[00:09:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think exactly that way. One of the things I've noticed, I, when I, my church calling right now is I am a stake Institute teacher and I teach an adult education class every Wednesday morning at 10 a. m. I can't believe people on a Wednesday at 10, just stop what they're doing to come to learn about the scriptures.
It's so awesome. And a lot of people come and I think it's fascinating to me because oftentimes we get a lot of questions about kind of stuff that's fringy out on the outskirts that are kind of rocking people's testimonies, which I think need to be addressed. Absolutely. But one of the things that I've come to understand, and our prophet has said this, is that, When you first focus on the doctrines of the gospel and teach the truths, then those everything else seems to work itself out.
And so the thing we're doing this year in the institute class is we're teaching from an institute manual called doctrines of the gospel. And I love that each week we're just going to focus on one aspect. So when I get to teach, I'm going to teach about God for one hour. The next week, just Jesus Christ.
And each week is one solid doctrine. And we've talked about these doctrines that never changed and they've never changed. They have never varied. So that added a big ring at the bottom of my thing that you, the stackable. So that's my answer.
[00:11:00] Abe Mills: So I think that that's amazing that you said that because there's a couple of things.
One is I believe that we allow the circumstances of our life sometimes to affect the way that we live the gospel instead of allowing the gospel to help us interpret the circumstances of our life. If, that makes sense.
[00:11:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think we need to like, that was awesome. That was so cool, Abe.
[00:11:27] Abe Mills: Well, I mean, I feel like.
And that's, you can see it in this, you know, when you read the chapters and anything, anytime that your circumstances change, you can see it with different people in the ward, like you said. You talked about YSA, right? People are moving from this family atmosphere where their parents are there every day and now they're on their own to do that. That's a split, right? So at that time, they're like, the circumstances of my life make me think that maybe all this stuff that I was learning wasn't true anymore, or maybe it just asked me to question certain things. And so it's interesting that, you know, those, that's, that's the way that that happens to us because it's like, I always tell people the gospel is true until it isn't.
Right. Right. Right now it feels so true. But then what if, like Job, God took away our whole family or God took away our job, you know, or did we then, do we then feel like, okay, God is still there. You know, sometimes it's those circumstances that cause us to really, really, really focus every day on like, okay, is God really there?
[00:12:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Abe, thank you for saying that. In fact, let's do this then. Let's jump into third Nephi. Chapters one through seven. And let's start learning about the circumstances of their lives. I love how you set that up. So we're going to do that in the next segment.
Segment 2
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[00:12:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So president Ezra Taft Benson in April of 1987 in general conference, he said, quote, the record of the Nephite history just prior to the savior's visit. Reveals many parallels to our own day as we anticipate the Savior's second coming. And so I asked you guys to look through these chapters and I'm just curious to know, like, what did you find? Did you find parallels? Do you think this quote is true?
[00:13:16] Tyler Collet: Definitely.
[00:13:19] Abe Mills: I definitely think it's true.
[00:13:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Give me some. What'd you find?
[00:13:22] Tyler Collet: Well, you have, you have the, uh, obviously your wars, your contentions throughout the land, you have people. Seeing miracles happen and seeing the signs of Christ's, uh, birth in, in these chapters and yet for a moment, they're like, Oh yeah, wow.
And then they go right back to their, their ways. And it's like, ah, that was just. I don't know, some cosmic gas up in the sky that caused this bright star to form. I don't know. You know, it's, it's funny because it's hard to explain what you can see that you can't explain it. Right. I mean, being from the show me state, I still have that show me, yeah, show me, yeah, right.
Show me, you know, and cause for me, seeing is believing. I had a hard time understanding when the Holy Ghost was telling me that something was true if I couldn't see it, um, and, uh, we definitely see that with these people back in this time where they see these things, but then some of them are just like, eh, yeah, let's find an explanation as to why this happened because it's got to be something that's, you know, logical,
[00:14:43] Abe Mills: definitely. Um, One of the, one of the things that I see is, uh, and I've, this, I've seen this for years, but it's secret combinations, like secretive groups going around trying to promote certain things. And it's always interesting because these days, when you, when you talk about this stuff, you know, they call you a conspiracy theorist, try to make you feel like, Oh, you're crazy.
Um, but these things are real. And when you see them and the way that they play out in these, in these chapters. It's more, to me, it's more easy to see how that's playing out today.
[00:15:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm. In fact, as you both were talking, I had this thought that it seems like the word coincidence is one of the most dangerous words.
In our theological belief system, because things happen and we go, it's either a miracle or a coincidence. And we love that Elder Maxwell has said, there are no coincidences that I actually have the quote because we've referred to it so many times. He says, this word is understandable for mortals to use.
But coincidence is not an appropriate word to describe the workings of an omniscient God. He does not do things by coincidence, but instead by divine design. And you can read that in his talk called Brim with Joy. It's a BYU speech. But I believe that. I believe in divine design throughout my life. It's not a coincidence.
And you think about all of the signs of the second coming. That's divine design for sure. Well, it was just kind of a cool coincidence. Did it really happen? Was it really meant like you said, Tyler, some cosmic mishap in the sky and the reality is it's not a coincidence, it's, it's prophecy and we have to be able to follow that.
I think what stood out to me was third Nephi chapter four verse 11. Let's turn there because this struck me, especially cause we're coming off the heels of Alma and Helaman and some crazy wars. And we talk about how the world we live in today. I don't know. Do you guys feel like the world we live in today is just more wicked than it's ever been?
Does it seem like it's just getting harder and harder?
[00:16:47] Tyler Collet: It does. Definitely.
[00:16:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right. And I was struck by this verse in verse 11 because it says, and the battle commenced in this sixth month and great and terrible was the battle thereof. Yay. Great and terrible was the slaughter thereof in so much that there never was known so great a slaughter among all the people of Lehi since he left Jerusalem.
So, of all the battles we've had in the Book of Mormon so far, there never was one worse than right here. And this, the day they're in, this is tough. And I just think, I feel that way sometimes about our day, it is tough. And third Nephi chapters one through seven are going to give us some pretty cool, I want to say prescriptions maybe, or ways to live in this time we're in.
Time that has never been harder since the time that Lehigh left Jerusalem because it's, I feel like it's heavy right now. It's just heavy.
[00:17:44] Abe Mills: Well, and it's that, that's the whole thing where there's so much of it that you start to kind of, it's easy to start to kind of like just see it as being normal and that, that to me is the, you know, that's the great warning right there.
Like that's the red flag. Be careful if you start thinking that all of this is normal, like, Oh, it's normal to, group. Uh, do some of the things that just come across our computer screen when we're just, just looking up, uh, you know, anything we're just, like you said, you will go to the library. Imagine going to the library to take out a book and then just having, you know, some half dressed person walk across, like I just came to the library to get a book.
And that's kind of what happens when we go to Google or anything else. And those are type of things that we're like, Oh, that's just normal now. And that's the red flags that we have. And it's Satan's way of kind of just easing in your every little thing.
[00:18:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And all of this has existed throughout history. I just wonder if it's even heavier now. I kind of feel that way.
[00:18:47] Abe Mills: More in our face. I think so.
[00:18:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. More. Yeah. Easily accessible. Abe, will you read this quote for us? So this is in the Book of Mormon student manual and it was written for this specific lesson. It kind of sums up a little bit about what we're going to continue to study today.
[00:19:04] Abe Mills: You bet. Only those with firm testimonies and full conversions were able to remain steadfast prior to the Savior's appearance in America. The same is true in our day. Only those with firm testimonies and full conversions will be able to remain steadfast. Prior to the Lord's second coming, a careful study of 3rd Nephi 1 7 will help you understand how your testimony of Jesus Christ and conversion to his gospel will give you the sustaining strength you need to stay true to the Savior during the challenging days in which you live.
[00:19:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Awesome. Thank you.
[00:19:37] Tyler Collet: Well, those with firm testimonies, it's what's the definition of firm here? You know, that's where are we at on that? You know, as. As an individual, think to yourself, where am I, where am I at with my testimony? Is it firm? Is it, does it fit this definition here that's, that makes me curious?
[00:20:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, that's a good question. What is the definition of firm? Hmm.
[00:20:05] Abe Mills: Yeah, that's a good question. I feel like it's, it's a very simple too. And that's, that keeps it simple, right? He just talks about firm testimonies and full conversion. That seems pretty simple to focus on.
[00:20:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Very good. All right, then let's discuss this a little bit and more.
We're going to talk about how important affirmed testimony is and our conversion to Christ. And we'll do that in the next segment.
Segment 3
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[00:20:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, something cool that I learned, this is so cool. Okay. And I want to share it with you before we go on in third Nephi, because throughout the course of the book of Mormon, the Nephites use three different points of reference, measuring time with their calendars. And we see it right here in third Nephi.
Turn to third Nephi chapter two. We're going to look at verses five through eight because there are three different frames of reference. For time and calendars, and you're gonna see that as you read throughout third Nephi. It's gonna go back and forth and so you wanna be very clear on what these measurements of time are.
So Tyler, will you please read for us Third Nephi chapter two verses five through eight
[00:21:18] Tyler Collet: and also a hundred years had passed away since the days of Messiah, who was king over the people of the Nephites. And 609 years passed away since Lehi left Jerusalem. And nine years had passed away from the time when the sign was given, which was spoken of by the prophets, that Christ should come into the world.
Now the Nephites began to reckon their time from this period when the sign was given, or from the coming of Christ. Therefore, nine years had passed away.
[00:21:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so let's underline these three. Here we go. In verse five is the first one that a hundred years had passed away since the days of Mosiah, who was king over the people of the Nephites.
Okay, so that's one of the framework references when the government changed from kings to judges. So that's the first frame of reference. The second time reference is in verse six. 609 years had passed away since Lehi left Jerusalem, and we just shared one earlier when I talked about how it said there had never been a war known worse since the time that Lehi left Jerusalem.
So whenever you read that, that's another way that they're gauging their time. But the one that we're going to read from here on out. Is this one in verse eight and verse seven also said it. They talk about the time from the sign that Christ should come into the world that that sign should be given. And this one really hit me because I was reading in Moroni chapter 10 and I just want to share this reference with you.
So turn to Moroni chapter 10 verse 1. I didn't know this and I, I was stuck on it for a long time. And then when I went back to start reading third Nephi and I found out there's reference of time, it made so much more sense. I was reading earlier in the summer and at the very end of verse one, Moroni speaking, he says, I write somewhat as seemeth me good.
And I write unto my brother and the Lamanites that I would, that they should know that more than 420 years have passed away since the sign was given of the coming of Christ. And it hit me because I thought. Wait a minute. He didn't say that 420 years have passed since Christ came. I would think they would gauge time from when he came to visit the Nephites, but I thought, why is he gauging time from when the sign was given?
Why do we care about the sign? Why don't we care more about when he actually appeared to the people? And so it goes clear back here to third Nephi, when they started gauging time, according to when the sign Had been given. And I think that's awesome. And it finally just made sense to me. Okay. So those are our three references for time.
So knowing these three references for time, there's a very specific time and we're going to look at this. So let's turn to third Nephi chapter one. So I'll go all the way back to third Nephi now. And in chapter one, elder Eyring talks about a specific timeframe. We have the people, they're living their lives.
The signs have been given. And I asked Tyler, will you sum up for us? Third Nephi chapter one.
[00:24:11] Tyler Collet: Yeah, you bet. So many signs and great miracles as prophets indicated among the people, there's some thought the time had passed from Samuel the prophet, kind of like a, we see nothing. Others began to let that get in their heads and became doubtful to their faith, right?
I was like, Oh, that hasn't happened yet. It's you guys are wrong. Uh, unbelievers set a day aside to begin killing those that, uh, we're still believing unless the sign came true. Um, Nephi saw what was happening, was bothered by this, went out and prayed all day and the voice of the Lord spake to him saying, Hey, It's happening tonight.
It's going down tonight.
[00:24:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What did you think when you saw that?
[00:24:57] Tyler Collet: That quick, wow. You know, it's like, really?
[00:25:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:25:02] Tyler Collet: That's all I had to do was pray. to know.
[00:25:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I know. Right. Tonight. Yeah. Okay.
[00:25:10] Tyler Collet: Tonight. Ooh, there's a couple of things I got to take care of.
[00:25:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I know. You almost wonder if he was like, you can wait a couple of days.
[00:25:18] Tyler Collet: Yeah. How about Thursday? Would Thursday be okay?
[00:25:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, exactly. I know we've been waiting, but wow, that's quick. Okay, good, good.
[00:25:28] Tyler Collet: Yeah, that's, that's quick. But you know what I did find interesting? And, and I, this kind of a little side thought as I was reading this, what I found interesting was the birth of Christ, the sign, essentially what it would be, what, 30, 24, 24, 36 hours of sunlight where the night was just as bright as day.
In fact, it said in, uh, third Nephi chapter one, verse 19, it says, and it came to pass that there was no darkness and all that night, but it was as light as though it was mid day. And it came to pass that the sun did rise in the morning again, according to its proper order. And they knew that it was the day that the Lord should be born because of the sign which had been given.
Now, my thought on that, as I was reading that, I was like, wow, the birth of Christ, the light of Christ. Here we have the sign of Christ being born. And we have the daylight before, continued daylight, as though it were midday. And then we have another day of sunlight. So just all of this light that is a sign for, for Christ's birth, contrast that to when he was crucified, he had darkness.
You've got three days of darkness. I looked at that as like, Oh, his, his birth into this world, the light of Christ fast forwarding 33 years to his crucifixion. And then everything's dark. I thought that was pretty interesting.
[00:27:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, it's fascinating, Tyler. I like, hold on, we've got to stop for a second there.
I love that you just connected that to the light of Christ, the light, the light of the world and this symbol. And then it goes back to what you said, Tyler, about how, well, it was probably just some really cool scientific cosmic mishap. And I mean, how do you explain away that sign if you were witness of it, right?
[00:27:27] Tyler Collet: Right.
[00:27:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Tyler, that was a great summation of what's going on because it led us right up to third Nephi chapter one, verse 29, the people begin to disbelieve the sign and verse 29 is the verse that elder Irene gives when it comes to a frame of reference of time. So let's read verse 29 Tyler, can you read that for us please?
[00:27:48] Tyler Collet: And there was also a cause of much sorrow among the Lamanites for behold, they had many children who did grow up and began to wax strong in years. That they became for themselves and were led away by some who were Zoramites by their lines and their flattering words to join the Gadianton robbers.
[00:28:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Highlight that verse. I'm curious to know right here, this verse, scholars believe that it illustrates it only takes one generation for apostasy to occur. According to president Joseph Fielding Smith, a generation is 100 years. And we look back at this verse and. I want to know what you think about the phrase or right here that it says that they became for themselves because that really hit me hard.
What does that mean when someone becomes for themselves or a child becomes for themselves after you've taught them the truth?
[00:28:41] Abe Mills: So I think that when you think about yourself and you're, you're less concerned about others. It changes your complete perspective on life and the way that I look at this is, you know, for instance, my kid, I've been so grateful that they chose to serve a mission, the ones who could so far and my last son, Jordan, who was on a mission right now going to Hong Kong and learning Mandarin, you know, he was very good at sports.
And he had been given offers to play football at the next level. And he was also, uh, had a lot of people looking at him for wrestling and giving him offers to stay and wrestle. But you know, in his mind, he always knew that he was going on a mission. And so he, instead of thinking for himself, he was thinking about what can I do to help others?
And as he was doing that again, he's going to be, um, it's changed his perspective on life. And as he goes through that mission, I know that because of the experience that I've had with others of my, of my sons and that I've had with myself. That it will change the way that he sees, you know, life for the rest of his life.
And there's a lot of things that we do in the church that you can't answer that question with any kind of good thing. You can't say, well, how does it benefit me to go do this and spend my time on this Saturday to go help a person move? Um, because when you look at like things as they are right now, you You focus on like temporal things.
It's not helping you temporarily to do that. This is, this is helping you to become the person that Christ wants us to be because He wants us to put others in front of ourselves. He wants us to make sure that we're, we're lifting each other. And so, when you see that they are for themselves, They're not concerned about how their actions affect anyone else.
They're just concerned about how does it, what do they get out of it?
[00:30:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh. That's a great interpretation of that line. I hadn't considered that at all. Just very self focused. Very cool. What about you, Tyler? What does it mean to you?
[00:30:40] Tyler Collet: Yeah. No, that was great, Abe, because that was a different perspective and I too hadn't considered it that way.
That was, I appreciated that. You know, I looked at it as they were beginning to understand. Life for them back then, and they were making their own decisions old enough. I don't know what age that would be, but old enough to be like, nah, I'm going to make my own decisions now. And it kind of, you know, I think kind of ties into what Abe was saying, you know, being selfish versus being selfless.
And, uh, you know, you, you. At that for, for, for them to, uh, becoming for themselves, you know, to me, that's a way for them to start out their life. They're beginning to provide for themselves. That this is how I was seeing it when I read it, you know, provide for themselves, think for themselves and just be their own person.
Right. But I, but I like how Abe took it to, you know, being selfish versus selfless. I like that.
[00:31:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think it's both for sure, because here's what I want to know. All right, you two. So just remember back, you know, we, we graduated from high school. We get to leave the nest, all of that stuff, because I have a moment and I'm wondering if either of you, do you have a moment where you became for yourselves?
Because look at that verse. It says they became for themselves and were led away. Like it's interesting. There's an and there because there was a very real moment where I became for myself. I'll never forget it. I was my freshman year in college. It was time to go to church. Everybody was getting up and getting ready and I wasn't.
I was in bed and I remember thinking, I don't have to go to church. No one's making me mom and dad are here and you didn't have cell phones. You couldn't track anybody. No one knew where I was. So I was like, I'm not going to church. This is the best day of my life. I don't have to do anything. I don't want to do anymore.
I became for myself that day in my apartment at Rick's college, BYU, Idaho. And I laid there in my bed becoming for myself. Oh, it felt so good to not have to do what my parents had made me do my whole life. And I laid there. And as I was becoming for myself, I love that and because I had an and moment I could have and been led away or and the spirit kicked my butt and I got up and went to church.
And that's what happened. I laid there long enough that the spirit was like, get to church. What are you doing? And so I got up, put on a dress. I'm like, but I'm not participating. I'm not going to sing and pray. Eh, whatever. I really did. I think every, almost all of us have our became for ourselves moments.
Did either one of you have that or have you had that in your life?
[00:33:19] Abe Mills: Oh, for sure. So I was kind of like, so I was in the same situation as you, as you're saying right now, sitting in that bed and I didn't go to church that day. And to be honest with you, I didn't go to church for several Sundays because what would happen is, you know, Dwayne, we were roommates and we would go dance on Saturday night as late as it would stay open.
[00:33:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You bet.
[00:33:41] Abe Mills: And then, and then we would wake up early and we went to a family ward instead of like a student ward. And at the family ward, it's really easy to just kind of like, Disappear if you're not like in a family, and so we were just kind of like disappearing man in the family ward and so we just said well Let's make the disappearing act real.
We'll just not show up and then nobody was asking about us Maybe those guys were just visiting though. We did that for a while and then Woke up one day and we're like, Hey, wait a minute, we haven't been to church for like a month and a half. Like what's going on? Are we inactive? And, and then, um, ultimately just started going back and like, at that moment in my life, I just determined, like, I will never, ever, ever not go to church again. Because I know, like, I know how hard it was because each, each time you'd get up and like, Oh, I'm really tired. The game's about to come on. Oh, I didn't know that game was going to be on today. And then, you know, you're like, well, it's really easy to just watch the game and not go. So yeah, definitely. That was my moment. After that, I said, I'm never not going to church again.
[00:34:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, good one. Good one. Looking at this verse, then talking about this quote, and I've kept bringing this up. So we're going to read the quote by President Henry B. Eyring, and he taught specifically about this verse that they became for themselves and that the church is one generation away from extinction.
Abe, can you read this quote for us?
[00:35:07] Abe Mills: You bet. The young people of the church hold the future in their hand. The church has always been one generation away from extinction. If a whole generation were lost, which will not happen, we would lose the church. But even a single individual lost to the gospel of Jesus Christ closes doors for generations of descendants.
Unless the Lord reaches out, bring some of them back.
[00:35:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And right there, the idea they became for themselves and who, who, yeah, wow. To make that decision one generation away and how easy it is. And so here's what we'll do is in the next segment, we're going to discuss how we can keep ourselves from being part of that one generation.
We'll do that next.
Segment 4
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[00:35:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, you two, you're very adventurous. And so I have a picture and I want to know if either one of you have experienced, you At all with this watercraft. All right. Do you guys have an experience with that watercraft?
[00:36:12] Tyler Collet: Not not to that extreme. Well a little bit. No not that extreme.
[00:36:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's a kayaker and it's listen for me. Hard pass. I'm never going to do it. It looks like a deathtrap. I will absolutely flip upside down and not be able to get out. No way. What, what about you? How, how did it go, Abe? You've done it.
[00:36:31] Abe Mills: Well, so, we have ocean kayaks here that we use. We live really close to the beach. So, we'll take an ocean kayak out and it is, there, there are days when the surf and the waves are a little more, you know, aggressive than others.
And so, yeah, there's some definite, like, rules that you have to, to follow.
[00:36:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and how much did we love then Elder Renlund's talk in General Conference April 2024, when he talked about his experience kayaking. I asked you two to read this and just tell me some of the highlights that you remember from his story.
[00:37:13] Tyler Collet: Well, in reading it, um, he spoke a lot about ministering. You know, how ministering plays a big role in people's lives and it, we don't know the change that it could bring with someone, even if they say, well, I only prefer you to send me a text message. Okay, great. That's exactly what I'll do. Um, you know, but I did appreciate.
The, uh, couple of centimeters, big waves that tipped him over because how true is that in life?
[00:37:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Tell me about that aspect of the story. How did he start out the very beginning of his talk?
[00:37:48] Tyler Collet: Well, uh, so in that particular portion, he said, as we started out, I rode faster and Ruth and Ashley, which is his wife and daughter. After a while, I was far ahead of him because he has experience in this right on, on lakes. And this was the ocean. And though proud of my heroic pace, I stopped paddling and waited from the catch up. That's kind of something I would do, right? That'd be like, I'm so far ahead of him. I better stop, let him catch up.
And then he says a large wave about 13 centimeters hit the side of my kayak and flipped me over into the water. And then later on, once he gets back up, another truly enormous, as he puts it. 20 centimeters hit his kayak and he flipped over again. Yeah. I don't know if I would admit that.
[00:38:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Abe, you're measuring with your hands. How, what, what centimeters, Abe? Yeah. What is that?
[00:38:43] Abe Mills: Very small. It's very small. It doesn't take much. Listen, I've been. I've been there as I was reading this. I actually was like, I totally actually relate to this because it's happened to me in the ocean here and you're sitting there in your kayak. You think everything's great and then all of a sudden the wave, you know, a little wave comes and you're just like, Oh, I'm gone.
And uh, so it really related to me as he was like, by the time I finally got back up, I don't, I didn't think I could actually even get back into my, uh, my kayak. And I was like, Oh man. This is getting real, you know, but that's just what it's like, you know, when you're out there, if you've ever been there. So, and I don't know, he didn't say anything about wearing life preservers, but we have like a little rule at our house where you have to wear life preservers because this is the kind of stuff that can happen, man.
[00:39:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right.
[00:39:31] Abe Mills: Even with little wavesand he was in no control of that.
[00:39:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Even with little waves. And then the guide helped him and pulled him back. It like had to help him kayak back to get caught up with everybody. But what was so interesting about this whole discussion is what was the guide's Recommendation to him so that he didn't get flipped over by the waves the very small waves that hit the kayak What did the guy tell him to do wave?
[00:39:58] Abe Mills: He told him to keep moving. He said if you just keep paddling, I think you'll be fine
[00:40:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right Just keep moving and when those little waves come you're not going to get hit. In fact, here's such a great quote Tyler, read this quote for us from Elder Renlund.
[00:40:13] Tyler Collet: By consistently paddling the kayak, I maintain momentum and forward progress, mitigating the effect of waves hitting me from the side.
The same principle applies in our spiritual lives. We become vulnerable when we slow down, and especially when we stop. If we maintain spiritual momentum by continually rowing toward the Savior, we are safer and more secure because our eternal life depends on our faith in Him.
[00:40:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So let's go into third Nephi chapter two.
I'm going to read just verses one and two. And as I do, I want you to tell me what connection is there between these two verses and the idea of spiritual momentum. Okay, here we go. I'll read the two verses and then I want to know what you guys think. And it came to pass that thus passed away, the 90 and fifth year also, And the people began to forget those signs and wonders which they had heard and began to be less and less astonished at a sign or a wonder from heaven in so much that they began to be hard in their hearts and blind in their minds and began to disbelieve all which they had heard and seen, imagining up some vain thing in their hearts.
That it was wrought by men or by the power of the devil to lead away and deceive the hearts of the people. And thus did Satan get possession of the hearts of the people again, in so much that he did blind their eyes and lead them away to believe that the doctrine of Christ was a foolish and vain thing.
Okay. Tell me, what connection did you come up with?
[00:41:41] Abe Mills: No, they had this wonderful experience, which gave them momentum in terms of how they felt about the gospel, having faith in Christ, uh, you know, in whatever way it affected their lives. Over time, because they weren't having the same type of thing, signs or signals in their lives, or they weren't recognizing those signs or symbols in their life, they begin to forget or, you know, you get farther and farther away from it.
They say this about pregnancy, you know, pregnant and you have a child, you're like, you never want to, you don't want to have a child right after that. But like, The farther you get away from it, you kind of forget, I mean, you forget the discomfort and then ultimately maybe have another child. So in, in, in this way, you know, this is what happened to these guys.
They slowed down, they said, well, let's wait. And then when the wave came, then it, you know, it's, it was easy for them to, to lose control of that.
[00:42:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. I love when you said they slowed down and they decided to wait because for the first time ever, when I was reading these verses, I was like, I, at the end of verse two, where it says that Satan did blind their eyes and lead them away.
I thought of the guide who came to help Elder Renlund lead him towards the goal. And here's Satan leading them away because these people, and the reason why he had to get led is Elder Renlund stopped and he needed someone to pull him in. And I, oh my gosh, I've never connected this, that when we stop, who's going to lead us? Oh, same. That is so, I like that Abe. That is so good.
[00:43:16] Abe Mills: Well, and you know, the interesting thing about that is when you talk to people who have been out of the gospel for a while, it, a lot of times when you get down to what it was that they went away for, it's like some little tiny, I want to say it's insignificant because it was significant enough to keep them away.
But when you really, really put it in perspective, it's like this small thing, but they're so focused on that one thing that it just keeps them away from. All of these other amazing things, they're just like focused on this one little thing.
[00:43:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And that, it's that one little thing that stops them, isn't it?
They stop paddling and they just sit there and sit with that. Oh, that's good.
[00:43:56] Tyler Collet: Well, you know, I, I, two things come to my mind. Uh, the first one being, they began to be less and less astonished at a sign or a wonder from heaven. And it makes me think about the, the time when Christ was performing miracles.
And all of the people that saw all of those miracles for themselves, they were right there. They literally saw that happen. And then, uh, a little while longer, I wonder if they were the same people to shout crucifying. And then I fast forward to today's times and it makes me realize, you know, I see even in myself.
Sometimes I see. How the world is less and less astonished by the miracles that are happening today, and they attribute that to Imagining in verse 2 imagining up some vain thing in their hearts. I can see people doing that in today's time well That wasn't a miracle. That was a coincidence, right? They are becoming for themselves.
It's interesting how that really does relate so much to our time today. So if we maintain our spiritual momentum by continually rowing towards the Savior, We are safer. That's what he says. We are safer. It doesn't say we're safe, but we are safer and we are more secure, right? So it's not to say that those waves won't still keep coming.
We will just be safer as opposed to being safe all around. We're, we're out of the waters. We're still in the waters. We're still going to have those waves coming. We're just safer and we're more secure.
[00:45:35] Abe Mills: Oh, that's kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like, um, and I appreciate what you're sharing there, Tyler.
This is amazing. And it's kind of like Jesus can calm the storm, but it's a lot, it's a lot less likely that that's what he will do. Right. When, when Peter went out on the water and Peter fell in the water, Jesus didn't calm the water. He just reached in and grabbed them. Right. Yeah. The storm still happened.
There it is. And more than likely in our lives. He's going to allow those waves to come, and you know, we're going to have to be doing what we do to make ourselves more secure.
[00:46:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, let me just ask you this then, what do you do? Is there one specific thing you try to do on a regular basis to keep your spiritual momentum so that you are safer and more secure?
Because I think sometimes, and when I read this, My mind goes to, well, you probably have to be paddling really, really fast. It's interesting. The guy didn't say, when you see that wave, you better start paddling hard and fast. He never said that. He's like, if you just contain your momentum, You're going to, you're going to be fine during those waves.
And so what's something small that we can do to maintain spiritual momentum or that you do?
[00:46:42] Tyler Collet: For me, uh, with my recent calling as an elders quorum president, it makes it really easy because I'm constantly praying now. Uh, so I, I've, I've probably prayed more in the past three weeks than I have in the past three months. And so it kind of reminds me of my mission days, right? I mean, we were saying prayers every time we turned a corner or something. So for me, praying is that spiritual momentum right now. And it changes. It changes for me. And I'm sure it changes for everybody. Some days it could be, Hey, look, I'm going to start reading the scriptures more where I'm going to start diving into the scriptures more and other people such as myself.
It's praying more, you know, and other people is like, Hey, you know what? I'm actually going to go to church today. I'm going to, I'm going to go for the first hour. Awesome. Great. Feel the spirit. Come back again. We invite you to come back again. So it could be different for everybody for, but for me, it's definitely prayer. That's my spiritual momentum right now.
[00:47:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how you said for some, it's just going to church. Just come sit in the foyer if that's as good as it gets. Like, I think that's great, Tyler. What about you, Abe?
[00:47:51] Abe Mills: Uh, by the way, those are my favorite people. I always go hug them. Yeah. More like my buddies. They're like my buddies right now.
I'm like, how can you keep me out of Sunday school for me? Um, so I would say one of the things right now that I, that I find to be really great in it, you know, with our family and everything is at the end of each day, we try to sit down. And have a devotional, which sometimes is about reading scriptures and sometimes about listening to conference talks and sometimes just about like talking about things that happened that day and trying to recognize those miracles.
We will ask, like, what did God do in your life today? And I think it helps us to just remember, you know, it's like, are we seeing the daily miracles that happen in our lives? You know, it's like, it does, a person's broken foot doesn't have to be like, you know, healed on the spot in order for it to be a miracle.
A person doesn't have to be risen from the dead for it to be a miracle. There are so many miracles that happen in our lives every day. And I feel like, I feel like, Us recognizing that keeps us so much more grounded and closer because again, there's a gratitude that comes when we recognize the miracles of God in our lives, we have a deeper gratitude for what's going on each day and I feel like that keeps us grounded.
And so we try to do that and I think that's, that's the momentum that we have is to do those and try to bring that to attention to our kids like, Hey, this is something that's going on. This is what God is doing.
[00:49:18] Tyler Collet: That is awesome.
[00:49:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I like that too. Remembering. Yeah. In fact, I think that's going to be our question for the week.
What's something you can do to maintain your spiritual momentum? Like I'd love to know what other people are doing or what they've done in the past or something that's helped that they think would help someone else coming along. Who's maybe just kind of stopped their kayak for a brief moment. Um, how can we get going?
How can we get paddling again? Let's read this quote. This is from our prophet. And here's what he has to say about spiritual momentum. Tyler, can you read this quote for us, please?
[00:49:47] Tyler Collet: So I ask, what can ignite spiritual momentum? We have seen examples of both positive and negative momentum. We know followers of Jesus Christ who became converted and grew in their faith, but we also know of once committed believers who fell away.
Momentum can swing either way. Ooh, I like that. We have never needed positive spiritual momentum more than we do now to counteract the speed with which the evil and the darker signs of the times are intensifying. Positive spiritual momentum will keep us moving forward amid the fears and the uncertainty created by pandemics, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, and armed hostilities.
Spiritual momentum can help us withstand the relentless, wicked attacks of the adversary and thwart his efforts to erode our personal spiritual foundation.
[00:50:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so in the next segment We're going to talk about momentum that can swing either way, and I want to know why Tyler thought that was cool. We'll do that next.
Segment 5
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[00:50:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Tyler, tell me why you said that was so cool when we read about how spiritual momentum can swing either way.
[00:51:01] Tyler Collet: Well, cause I look at it as a pendulum, right? A pendulum for, for musicians. Cause you always have that counterbalance, have that counterbalance. And listen, if you think Satan's not trying everything he can to counterbalance people.
You know, you're silly because it's real and it's there. And I think he's probably pushing, pushing against us more than maybe we are pushing towards our positive spiritual momentum as president Nelson had put it. And so it's interesting to me. Because, uh, just as much, you know, as we, and, and look, if we're paddling and we get tired and we slow down, that's okay.
That's okay. Even if we have to take a breather, as long as we continue to move forward, it doesn't matter how fast you get there. As long as you just. Put that paddle in the water and you keep pushing forward. Satan is that water, right? He's pushing against that canoe, or the kayak rather. He's pushing against it.
So it's not going to be easy. If it were easy, everyone would do it.
[00:52:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right.
[00:52:10] Tyler Collet: But, uh, it's the fact that you are doing it. It's the fact that you are continuing to do that paddle with that resistance. And that's, that's what, uh, is pretty cool. I think.
[00:52:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Abe, as someone who's done kayaking, I I'm curious to know when you are out there paddling, are you required to go paddle, paddle, paddle back and forth?
Or can you do a paddle and then slowly go and like, we'll, we'll let keep you up either way. Cause like Tyler says, if you're going slow, it's okay. Just keep on the slow paddle. I mean, or do you have to vigorously hurry and paddle fast to keep up? Right.
[00:52:46] Abe Mills: So interestingly enough, it depends on which part of the journey that you're on.
And so I have to paddle on both sides, especially when you first come, cause the waves will come and they'll, and they'll push you back onto the shore. If you don't paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle to get beyond the break of the wave. Once you get beyond the break of that wave, the other waves will come, but on those ones, it's just, you know, maintaining.
But yeah, when you first start, there's this curious paddle to get out past the break.
[00:53:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's cool. Okay. Let's apply all of this then. And that visual, I think that's awesome. Both of you, what you shared. And I asked you to go through third Nephi chapters one through seven, and I had you get a piece of paper and make two columns.
And I took a piece of paper and fold it in half. This was such a fun exercise for me to do. I really enjoyed it. Like I loved going through and making the columns because on one column, you're going to put actions that lead towards conversion. or actions that destroy conversion. That was what we were going to do.
And I, and more specifically, and we have this in our show notes, it says attitudes, beliefs, and actions that lead individual testimony and conversion or attitudes, belief, and actions that destroy individual testimony and conversion. And so let's just start real quick. And will each of you just give me three things that you found that are actions, beliefs, and attitudes that lead an Testimony and conversion in these chapters. What did you notice if you can give us a verse, that'd be great.
[00:54:19] Tyler Collet: I'll give you, I'll give you the three that lead first, if that's all right.
[00:54:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's do the lead.
[00:54:25] Tyler Collet: So one of them and Abe talked about this when he does this with his family, remembering God in all things, uh, and covenants. And I believe that was referenced in third Nephi chapter five verse 25.
Of course, faith in third Nephi chapter seven, verse 18 and preaching and testifying third Nephi chapter six, verse 20.
[00:54:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What'd you find, Abe?
[00:54:49] Abe Mills: So I did not, so as I was reading, I was taking in what I thought were the attitudes based upon just reading, but not without not necessarily anything that I saw specifically meaning those word.
Okay. But through what about the actions were, and I don't have scriptural basis meaning like I don't, I didn't match them up scriptures, but. Um, the things that I saw, um, faith in Jesus Christ, humility and gratitude were the three things that I saw. Um, and, and to me, without giving scriptural references, what I can point to is in the scriptures that talks about those people who were looking forward to the sign with that hope, knowing that, that it would happen, um, and also, uh, the humility that they had The truck in God and place basically their lives in his hands.
[00:55:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Boy, absolutely. And what I marked then Abe are verses 29 through 32 because here they are in this war. Remember we read verse 11. There had never been a slaughter known since the day of Lehi. And this is a really bad slaughter. And in verse 28, they kill the leader. of the Gadianton robbers. And then I love 29 through 32 and it talks about may the Lord preserve his people in righteousness and in holiness of heart that they may cause to be felled to the earth because the tree that they hung this man on fell.
And so they're using that an example. And then 30, they did rejoice and cry again with one voice saying, may the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob protect this people in righteousness. So long as they shall call on the name of their God for protection and it came to pass, they did break forth all as one in singing and praising their God.
I'm just imagining that moment like singing and praising their God. When have we done that as a people? What does that look like in 2024 singing and praising their God for the great thing which had done for them in preserving them from falling into the hands of their enemies? And then 32, they did cry Hosanna to the most high God.
And they did cry. Blessed be the name of the Lord. God Almighty, the most high God. I just, the word Hosanna, which means save now. And they literally were saved. I mean, talk about attitudes, beliefs, and actions that are leading towards testimony and conversion. And it absolutely did. And then in chapter five, The people did not doubt the words of the prophets, and I think that's brilliant that they follow the words of the prophets and those attitudes and actions will absolutely lead towards conversion.
But now on the flip side, then we're going to swing the pendulum of momentum to attitudes and actions that destroy testimony and conversion and able start with you and then we'll go to Tyler. What did you come up with? What were some attitudes and actions that destroyed conversion in these chapters?
[00:57:43] Abe Mills: So some of the things that I wrote down, um, are discontent, irritation, and focusing on things of the world. In other words, banning the flames of your doubt, not your faith. And I don't know if you remember, there was a talk that was, uh, given by elder Holland that where he talked about, do not ban the flames of your doubt. There's so many things that, you know, that you have to believe in, then the Flynn, the flames of your faith.
And you can see, as I read through these chapters, you could see that those who are turning away You could see that they were, that there were some of these things that we're talking about. They were discontent. They were easily led by someone who was basically, and I, when I, when I read these, I, I read in between the lines.
So that's, that's reading these things. I can, I could see like what would happen today? Like, Oh, Oh, you think that that's so good. Well, Those people are telling you that because of this, you can see that people are making these decisions to leave what they have known to be true. And you're going, you were there when the thing, when the day, the night and the day went and there was all a light.
It's now you all of a sudden believe in these people that some magician did it or whatever they told them. I don't know what they told them, but. It's like, you know, it's hard, but in the days like today you go, you, sometimes you see people turn away and you go, man, we were together. I remember the feeling that we had, we wore our testimonies to each other about how, what an amazing experience that was.
It's hard to see you walk away from that, but they forget it because they are fanning the doubt of their, they're fanning the flames of their doubt.
[00:59:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Great example.
[00:59:22] Abe Mills: Not what they know to be true.
[00:59:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. I want to know why you put the word irritation. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:59:29] Abe Mills: Well, because, it seems like there was a part in here where They were, they're irritated with the people of faith because they want to continue with the laws and these people want to change everything out.
And so they get irritated with these people. And that was what finally, I think, made them go to war because they were like, well, we can kind of deal with kind of just infiltrating and doing what we want to do. But when they realized they couldn't steal or like sneak any longer, there was an irritation that came to them like, well, we will still want to do what we want to do. And that was when they decided to go to, they'll go to war against people. So I can only imagine the kind of animosity that had built up, you know, cause sometimes even if it's not real at first, it can become real because it changes the perspective. It changes your perspective on how you see people. You know, you have these people that were probably some of their family members.
You know, they probably at the family reunion and then a year later they're fighting against each other because they got so focused on something and, you know, it's always, you know, think about it like this. I thought I thought about like this, if you were in a relationship and someone was in your ear every day that that person that was supposed to be your significant other was doing things that were not right and was, you know, I mean, you would start to look at the things they were doing.
And you would already have, you would start to begin to think, Oh, well, that's what that was for. It happens in our lives all the time. Not necessarily with students and others, but you, somebody, you hear thoughtful about people. And then all of a sudden you're thinking, man, why am I thinking that about that person?
But this is what's happening when you, when you, when you have a thing in the church, I had a situation recently in church where. I said something to someone and it got back to me that they thought that I was saying something completely differently because they're having to struggle with the church right now.
So they are placing their own biases on everything that everybody else is doing in the church. And that happens to us. And this is what happened with these people. They began to place biases, their own, like, you know, the person that's in their ear saying the only reason why they're doing it is this. So if somebody comes to help you, you're like, well, they're trying to do that because they only want me to do this, not that.
And it's weird because they start creating this whole thing that's not true. And that's the way Satan works, right? He works in lies, right? And he wants us to believe those lies. Yeah.
[01:01:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: He's the worst.
[01:02:01] Abe Mills: Yeah.
[01:02:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. Tyler, what do you have for destroying testimony and conversion?
[01:02:05] Tyler Collet: You know, it's funny that he used doubt because that was my first one was doubting from third Nephi chapter one verse seven.
Um, another one was secret combinations and Abe actually talked about that earlier in the reference on that third Nephi chapter seven verse six. And then one that I, the other one that I'll use is anger over power. And that was in third Nephi chapter seven verse 20. And just, they're angry because other people have the power and they don't.
Yeah. The prophets in this case. And, uh, the miracles that have been performed and seen. And it's, those were the three that I chose.
[01:02:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Great job, both of you. And there are so many. I mean, if you could see our lists, I think we both have just lines and lines of ideas. Yeah. Look, we all three of us have this stuff.
For me, it was third Nephi chapter six, verse 15, because they started to divide themselves according to class. And who was rich and who was poor. And verse 15 says, now the cause of this iniquity of the people, it was this Satan had great power upon the stirring up of the people to do all manner of iniquity and to the puffing them up with pride, tempting them to seek with power and authority and riches and the vain things of the world.
But I want to go to the word iniquity because it says it again in 16 and thus Satan did lead away the hearts of the people to do all manner of iniquity. Therefore, they had enjoyed peace, but a few years. And oftentimes I've read the word iniquity to be sin. Like I, I think all manner of sin that they were doing, but here's something kind of cool.
And my friend Allison taught this to me and I verified it. I looked it up the meaning of the word iniquity and the word in means not, but equity means just or equal. If you look up the etymology of iniquity, it means to not be just to not be equal. And isn't that funny? Fascinating that the thing that Satan got them with again, I'll read that again.
Satan had great power unto the stirring up of the people to do all manner of iniquity or inequality. That thought of I'm better than othering other people. I'm not like them because of whatever. And so the moment you start to become unequal. And no longer unified is one of the best ways to swing that pendulum towards destroying testimony and conversion.
And that's something we have to remember.
[01:04:28] Abe Mills: Yeah. So I think it's interesting because. If you look at the world that we live in today, this is one of the number one tactics by Satan is to focus on inequality, right? He wants to focus on inequality. It's like when you focus on inequality, what you do is you take away your ability to focus on Heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ and what they have given.
So if you remember in the story of the talent. In the scriptures, it gives us three different values of talent. Now, God did not have to do that. God doesn't see it. He didn't care. He didn't care what it was. He didn't care what the amount was. The only person who cared was us. Reading the story. We care about it.
So he's giving us those numbers not because, Oh well, it's important that if you have this, then that and this. No, we're focused on that. Even the one that got just one. Yep. We're focused on that as like, Oh, why did he just get one? Oh, he's the one and, and, and, and it shows you how that can affect us. This is not, um, when Satan wants us to be distracted, he will focus on our inequalities or he would get us to focus on inequalities.
Meaning whether or not we feel like someone's better than us or whether or not we feel like we are better than someone. But when my wife was serving in, um, in Africa, she was there, I'm a Kenya, I think the person said, and she summed this up or the guy, he summed it up with, and he said, the same God that knows that you have so much is the same God that knows that we have so little, which means that as people who have, What we have, we need to be giving it to the other people. Yeah. That's what God is giving it to us. He wants to see what we're gonna do. And you can't have that if you don't have people that don't have as much as someone else. Whether it's talents, whether it's money, whether it's perspective, whether it's knowledge. You don't have that. If you don't have that inequality, then God cannot give us the opportunity to serve and lift one another and to learn from each other.
[01:06:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes.
[01:06:39] Abe Mills: And so when Satan says, well, we're focused on inequality. That's not right. That's not right. That's not right. And that's all that we can do is go, ah, instead of like, oh, we're owed this by someone. It's what are we doing? What is God blessing us with that we can help to lift one another and be unified?
[01:06:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Abe. And every one of us listening as you were speaking, at least this was for me, the spirit pointed out. Here's one of the ways that we become unequal as members of this church and as members of Christ's family, because we are all his children. That's what it is. That's the equality that we all have.
And isn't it fascinating that in third Nephi chapter six, verse 18, as we were listening to what you had to say, both of you, it says now they, meaning the believers or the non believers, they did not sin ignorantly. For they knew the will of God concerning them, for it had been taught unto them. Therefore, they did willfully rebel against God.
We all know. We all know. And that's why when we have those moments where we are becoming for ourselves and we don't want to go to church, we have been taught. We know and we're rebelling willfully to rebel against God and we're just letting our pendulum swing and it's okay. We'll get back. We'll get back there.
Hopefully, hopefully we get back there. But this idea of just, we need to be more equal because Satan, he is so good at just splitting us apart from each other and making us think we're better than or they're worse than. And so that, that was one of the biggest pendulum swingers of our day. And I'm so glad that you pointed that out Abe.
So thank you so much. Okay, so let's do this then in the next segment. We are going to study the words of a man who was so good at making sure his pendulum was swung towards leading and guiding, not just himself, but us towards a stronger testimony and conversion. And we'll show you who that is in the next segment.
Segment 6
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[01:08:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, everyone listening, please do this at the top of a piece of paper or in your journal, whatever it is you're writing in. I just want you to write this statement. I am. So I want you to write the very top. I am in all capital letters. Now, I don't know if you've ever heard of doing this. I think I did it in college and I am statement.
Sometimes students have to do this on the first day of class, right? What your I am statement. It's kind of like a vision board, but with words, you're going to declare what you are. Now, that might seem like a daunting task. So before we get into an I am statement, let's read. I think this is some of the best I am statement of one person.
We're going to turn in our scriptures to third Nephi. We're going to go to chapter five because in third Nephi chapter five, this person kind of interjects in the middle of the story to give us an I am statement. So third Nephi chapter five and Abe, will you please read verse 12 for us?
[01:09:31] Abe Mills: Yes, I will. And behold, I am called Mormon, being called after the land of Mormon, the land in which Alma did establish the church among the people, yea, the first church which was established among them after their transgression.
[01:09:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so who's the name of the person we're going to learn about? I am who?
[01:09:48] Abe Mills: Mormon.
[01:09:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mormon. Now at the top of your page, put your first name. You put I am, now write your name. I am Abe. I am Tyler. I am Tammy. Because he says, I am Mormon. Now we're going to read another I am statement by Mormon. And Tyler, can you please read verse 13?
[01:10:06] Tyler Collet: Behold, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I have been called of him to declare his word among his people, that they might have everlasting life.
[01:10:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. There's his next I am statement. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Add that to your I am. I am Tammy, a disciple of Jesus Christ, a daughter of God.
That's how I would say that. And then Mormon is going to give us a little bit more information about, and I love this part of his I am statement. Let's go to verse 20. And here's what he has to say. I'll read that. I am Mormon. And a pure descendant of Lehi, I have reason to bless my God and my savior, Jesus Christ, that he brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem and no one knew it save it were himself and those whom he brought out of the land and that he hath given me and my people so much knowledge unto the salvation of souls.
He kind of bears his testimony right there in his I am statement. And so I just think it's really cool that we have this I am statement and I asked my guests to write an I am statement. And I just want to know briefly, give me your I am statement. I am Tyler blank or I am Abe. What'd you guys write?
[01:11:23] Tyler Collet: Mine's mine is, uh, kind of what you tell everybody. I am God's favorite.
[01:11:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. . You are . I am Tyler. I am God's favorite. That is so, okay. Read it right like that, like it were a verse of scripture. Let's add your I Am statement to Mormons.
[01:11:41] Tyler Collet: I am Tyler. I am God's favorite.
[01:11:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mic drop for Tyler. That is awesome. . That was so good.
That is awesome. All right, Ave read yours.
[01:11:52] Abe Mills: Okay, so mine's a little longer. It says, I am Abe of the Mills family, also known as Abdullah, servant of a merciful God, son of Norris and Carol, disciples of Jesus Christ. I am also a disciple of Jesus Christ and have been called to lift my brothers and sisters. I have reason to rejoice in my God and my savior, Jesus Christ, who has redeemed me from my sin.
[01:12:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Boy, I felt that. I felt the spirit with that Abe. Thank you. I'm challenging everyone today to write an I am statement. I want you to write your I am statement and I would love for you to share that with me. If it's personal, go ahead and just send me a private message on Facebook or Instagram. Um, at Tammy use a lock hall.
I want to know what your IM statements are. I think this is such a cool thing to do for everybody to write down their IM statement because Mormon is showing us here. Mormon has been telling us these stories about the signs and that the savior is coming and he's talking about wars and he's about to get into some more wars and he takes this break to just say, but wait a minute, let me tell you what I know.
I am Mormon. I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ, the son of God. And then he goes into his family line and things that he believes. And then he gets into more stories. And then the savior comes. One thing I know is Jesus is coming. He is absolutely coming. And with that, then what are you, what do you believe?
And going back to the word firm, Tyler, I like that you brought that up. Is your testimony firm in the Savior, Jesus Christ? Are you converted? Are you ready for him to come? Because we are anticipating the coming of Jesus Christ. And I cannot wait for that day to happen. And I hope that I don't become less and less astonished.
I hope that everything I see continues to make me think, what, what the prophet said this would happen. And it did, because that's exactly what is happening. And I am. I'm thrilled for the discussion we had today. Thank you to both of you. Do you have any final comments or any thoughts you'd like to share before we end?
[01:14:03] Tyler Collet: Just keep your spiritual momentum going. That's a man that will help firm your testimony if you struggle with that.
[01:14:12] Abe Mills: Yeah. Thank you, Tammy. Yeah. And the only thing that I would say is just be aware of those people who would take your focus off of the journey that we're on.
[01:14:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. Wow. Thank you to both of you.
And thank you for your preparation for this discussion. And I hope all of you take the time to read these chapters because they are just filled with so much goodness. I feel like we should say, like we, and we leave this lesson with you in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
[01:14:41] Abe Mills: Amen.
[01:14:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thanks guys. You're awesome.
[01:14:44] Abe Mills: Thank you.
[01:14:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, what was your takeaway? I want to know. So go join our group on Facebook or Instagram and share what you have learned or ask questions that you might have. Then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we're going to post a question that has to do with this specific lesson. So be sure to comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out.
Now, another cool thing, and just a fun reminder is I am coming to the time out for women magnify the good events. So if you are in Arizona or. close around the area of St. George, Utah. Come see me. I would love to meet you. Go to magnifythegood. com and check out all the events. There's also one in Salt Lake and in Idaho, and it's going to be awesome.
So go check it out. The Sunday of Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Usilak Hall. And today our Superb study group participants were aide mills and Tyler Collet, and you can find more information about the dudes at LDS living dot com slash Sunday on Monday.
Our podcast is produced by Colesinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Colesinger and our executive producer is Aaron Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that by divine design, you are created and you are God's favorite.