The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Many of you know that I love the Hebrew language, so. It's only going to make sense that last year when I taught my primary kids the song Samuel Tells of Baby Jesus, I had to teach them the Hebrew meaning of the word Hosanna, which means save now. And that if you needed to be saved, I asked them, Hey, if you need to be saved, would you whisper or would you cry out for help?
You can imagine what all the primary kids yelled, we'd cry because I explained what that meant. So then they got this really fun idea. I gave all of them palm leaves and these sweet little kids waved them as high or as high as their little arms would reach up into the air. They stood up on their chairs, waving them in the air while singing at the top of their lungs.
Hosanna. Oh, let us gladly sing. How blessed that our Lord was born. Let earth receive her King. It was a moment I will never forget. Teaching primary today as we study Helaman chapters 13 through 16, we get to study the words of Samuel, the Lamanite prophet and his prophecy of Jesus Christ, who is the only one that can truly. Hosanna. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week and we really dig into your scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend, Brendan Gallego and his darling sister. I loved meeting the two of you. Thank you so much for coming over and saying hello. Now, the best thing about this podcast is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And these two have never been on and I've wanted them to be on and I'm very excited.
I cannot wait to introduce you to Tennisa Nordfeltt and Saley Nordfeltt. Hi ladies.
[00:01:54] Saley Nordfelt: Hey.
[00:01:55] Tennisa Nordfelt: Hi. I'm glad to be here.
[00:01:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Are you really?
[00:01:59] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:02:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Big fan. Oh my gosh. Well, I love you both. Okay. So these two, I love so much. And the first time we actually met Saley was five years ago. And all of us went to Pennsylvania together for Timeout for Women.
[00:02:16] Saley Nordfelt: That's right.
[00:02:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Stranded in Pennsylvania with Tamu. So there you go. But we did, we traveled together and Saley, you were just this cute little junior high kid. And now you're this beautiful adult woman. So first of all, how do you two know each other? And then tell us a little bit about yourselves.
[00:02:32] Tennisa Nordfelt: Okay. Yeah. Saley, you go ahead.
[00:02:34] Saley Nordfelt: Wow. Well, Tennisa is my mom, so she's amazing.
[00:02:42] Tennisa Nordfelt: Mm hmm. And, And that makes Saley my daughter, and she's also amazing. And um, my favorite thing that I learned about Saley in the last couple of years is she, She recently returned about a year ago from, um, a mission in South Carolina. And I love the ability that she gained to express her feelings about the gospel. She's actually really good at it and it's helped my testimony grow by watching her. So it's like a major payday as a mom for sure. Oh, it would have to be. To watch your kid evolve and come to that. So I have an amazing daughter. She's a, she's really, really the best.
[00:03:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm. Yeah. What number are you in the family, Saley?
[00:03:27] Saley Nordfelt: I'm the oldest. I'm the first child, so.
[00:03:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No pressure.
[00:03:34] Tennisa Nordfelt: So she's the experiment mostly? Yeah. So far so good.
[00:03:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I would say so. Nice experimentation there, Tennisa, you and your husband. It's awesome.
[00:03:44] Tennisa Nordfelt: She didn't quite teach us enough. She was, she was kind of easy, actually. We learned a lot from her siblings.
[00:03:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's so fun. And then, Saley, where are you right now? Tell us about that.
[00:03:55] Saley Nordfelt: So I'm in my apartment in Provo. I'm just, I'm not in school right now, but normally I go to UVU. I'm studying dance therapy, but that could change. I still don't really know what I want to do with my life. So
[00:04:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: well, we have a saying at my house, you have your whole life to figure out your whole life. So it's true. It really is. I can't believe how many times my life has changed to what I thought I would do and what I'm doing. Right, Tennisa?
[00:04:23] Tennisa Nordfelt: Amen. I've told her that I changed my major. Three times before I landed on something and now doing something different in my career. So yep, we have time to figure it out.
[00:04:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's fun. Shout out to Tennisa who's getting her MBA right now while raising a family and working full time. Just, you know, no big deal. Yeah.
[00:04:41] Tennisa Nordfelt: As long as you're okay with being mediocre at everything, it's great.
[00:04:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That is, for anyone who listening, that is not true of her at all. Saley, what do you have to say about your mom?
[00:04:52] Saley Nordfelt: I love my mom. She's my biggest example and I tell her about everything, literally everything. And um, she just, she's amazing. You know, she just supports me, and she tells me what to do, which sometimes I don't listen, but I, she always knows what, what is right, and she is a great example to me of knowing the gospel, and following it, because not just for like reasons, just, just to be obedient, or just because like, She was told to, but she truly has a desire to obey God because she loves him and because she loves Jesus Christ and she really has a true understanding of that and a conversion to Jesus Christ.
So, I've definitely learned a lot from my mom and so I'm lucky to have her.
[00:05:52] Tennisa Nordfelt: Oh my gosh, I'm like already crying from the primary kids to that.
[00:05:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Talk about a mom payday right there. Can we just say amen and end the episode? Oh, how sweet. I love this. Okay. You're listening and I know you're thinking you want to know what they look like and more information about them.
So go to our show notes, which are found at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday, and you can read their bios and see their pictures and you're going to want to because to this is adorable. So is her daughter and their family is too. I love the family pictures that you've posted on Facebook, so go check that out.
All right, everybody, grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with. And we are going to dig in to heal them in chapters 13 through 16. Starting right out. Here we go, ladies. Tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you were reading these four chapters?
[00:06:42] Tennisa Nordfelt: So as I read, as I, as I dug into chapter 13 and then it continues in 14, um, I thought, And if you only read this out of context without a whole lot of other scripture, it would, it would really seem like, um, we have a very harsh God, right?
Because this message that Samuel's giving to the Nephites is kind of just telling them all the punishment they're going to get if they don't repent, right? And I couldn't help but think, and I obviously know, I know that that isn't God because it's not the whole picture. And so immediately I thought of Elder Kearon's talk from General Conference called, God's Intent is to Bring You Home.
And when I framed Samuel's words this way, um, that his intent is to bring home the Lord. The Nephites that he knows has so much potential and that he loves endlessly. Sorry, I get really emotional when I feel the spirit. So
[00:07:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love it.
[00:07:56] Tennisa Nordfelt: Um, he loves endlessly it, that, that is the framing, right? That's, that's what we have to know that, that God's intent will bring us.
And I loved what Elder Kearon said. He said, God is in relentless pursuit of you. He wants all of his children to choose to return to him, and he employs every possible measure to bring you back. And I, and, and thinking about the circumstances of the time surrounding this, and, and Samuel kind of appearing.
Out of nowhere, like he did, and then kind of going off into nowhere, I think, yeah, this was one, this is one tool that God used because he is in relentless pursuit of all of his children, and he will use the means necessary to let us choose. To come back. So I, I just, I love that the spirit taught me how much God loves us, even if it comes across, um, as a little harsh, you know, but it's because he loves us. It comes from love.
[00:09:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I so appreciate what you just said. In fact, as you were talking, I wrote at the top of my page, the intent is to bring them home. I can't think of a better way to frame Samuel, the Lamanite prophets, words to these people because you're right. I love that. You just said if you were to read it without knowing any context, it does seem harsh, but then you just perfectly framed it.
It's the intent is to bring them home. And that's it. That is awesome. That is so great. And Elder Kearon's talk, the thing I love about it is after he says the relentless pursuit part, he then goes into repentance. It's almost like a modern day Samuel the Lamanite. We're going to find that later today, but yeah, so good.
So good. Good. Oh, thank you. What about you, Saley?
[00:09:57] Saley Nordfelt: Amen. Um, I love that. That was so good. I just love how much God loves his children. Like, I look for that in every part of the scriptures that I read, ever. I'm like, what does this teach me about the character of God? And what does this teach me about his love and about Christ's love?
So, as I was reading, I just, I just love every part of this because you can just see how much God loves his children, and you're gonna butt in. Helaman 15 verse 12, at the very end of the verse, it says, the Lord shall be merciful unto them. And I just loved that. Like that was just like one line that just simply stood out to me.
And he's merciful unto all his children. And I just, it just reminded me how like, I get so stressed sometimes, and I'm sure we all do about how hard it is to. Like be perfect and to live up to all the things that we're supposed to live up to and to fit in with like Society and everything that's going on around us It's just so hard to keep up and it's so hard to feel like you're doing enough and it's so hard to feel like You're doing what you should be and that you're maybe that you're even doing any good in the world at all but I just love that this truth that the scripture teaches us that We don't, we don't necessarily have to be perfect and we don't necessarily have to be doing every single thing ever because that's impossible.
Whatever mistakes we make, whatever things that we fail at, the Lord is going to be merciful to us. And also, if you look in the footnote under merciful, In that verse, I scrolled all the way to the very bottom and Mormon 5:21 is one of their scriptures. Um, it says, and also the Lord will remember the prayers of the righteous which have been put up unto him for them.
And I also love that because, um, like, not only do I like worry about like my own, like, shortcomings, but I also have loved ones that, you know, are not believers and they're not a part of this gospel. And I worry for them too. And like a lot of people that I met on the mission that never chose to believe, I pray for them all the time.
And so it just brings me a lot of comfort knowing that. God's going to be merciful to them as well, and that He's going to remember the prayers that I pray for them.
[00:12:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow, and then that scripture in Mormon, what a great, I'm so glad you looked at that footnote. So thank you for sharing that. And again, it just, both of your, pure Both of your comments on what the Holy Ghost taught you go so perfectly together that everything we're going to read today and the whole plan of our Heavenly Father, it really is for the intent to bring all of us home, all of us in relentless pursuit, as you said Tennisa.
So thank you to both of you. I appreciate what you shared and what you had prepared for that. Turn with me to Helaman chapter 13 and let's just mark verses one through three. I want to show you something kind of cool before we dig into the words of Samuel, the Lamanite prophet. In Heal and chapter 13 verses one through three.
We have some Hebraism right here that I just wanna show you. As we know, we've been studying Hebraism throughout this year, which is proof that for me, Joseph Smith did not write this 'cause. This is how Hebrew, the Hebrew language is written. Saley, will you please read for us Heal and chapter 13 verses one and two.
[00:13:52] Saley Nordfelt: Yes. It says, And now it came to pass, in the eighty and sixth year, the Nephites did still remain in wickedness, yea, in great wickedness, while the Lamanites did observe strictly to keep the commandments of God according to the law of Moses. And it came to pass that in this year there was one Samuel, a Lamanite, came into the land of Zarahemla and began to preach unto the people.
And it came to pass that he did preach many days repentance unto the people, and they had cast him out and he was about to return to his own land.
[00:14:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So there's the situation that's going on and he's about to go back because they don't want anything that he has to say. And then we come to verse three and it says, and let's highlight this, but behold, the voice of the Lord came unto him.
Whenever it says the voice of the Lord came unto him, this is the revelation formula. a prophetic speech form. So that's what I've written to the outside, the revelation formula of the prophetic speech form. So when you see the voice of the Lord came unto him, we have a revelation formula. So right here, the voice is going to come unto him.
And then verse three, it says that he should return again and prophesy unto the people whatsoever thing should come into his heart. That is a revelation formula. The Lord came to him you And gave him the words in his heart. So I put a little pink heart by that word. And then you go to verse five. And he said unto them, behold, I, Samuel, the Lamanite do speak the words of the Lord, which he doth put into my heart and behold, he hath put it into my heart to say unto this people that the sort of justice hangeth over this people and 400 years passed not away save the sort of justice falleth upon the people.
So the revelation formula is the voice of the Lord comes to him. He speaks what's put in his heart. And then turn the page and we're going to then define what the prophetic speech form is in verse eight. Highlight thus sayeth the Lord, and then go to verse 11 and highlight it again. Thus sayeth the Lord.
Anytime a prophet begins with, thus sayeth the Lord, that is what we know as the prophetic speech form in Hebrew. And so before a prophet speaks, he will say that, and then we know that what he's saying is the will of the Lord. Now, knowing that, then I got to tell you, the people did not really like what the Lord sayeth to the people.
And so we're going to show you some examples of that in the next segment.
Segment 2
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[00:16:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're going to begin this segment with a quote from president Harold B. Lee. And Tennisa will you please read this quote for us?
[00:16:41] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yes, there are some things that take patience and faith. You may not like what comes from the authority of the church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views.
It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things as if from the mouth of the Lord himself. The promise is that the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. Yea, the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name's glory.
[00:17:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So based on this quote right One of the things I noticed is that many of the people did not like what Samuel, the Lamanite prophet had to say, because it absolutely contradicted their social views. It interfered with their social life and many of their political views. And so the three of us.
Read through these chapters, and we marked some of those examples of what we think may have interfered with their views. And I'd love to know what the two of you came up with. So we'd be willing to share with us and just give us the chapter and verse. What was pretty unpopular to these people?
[00:17:53] Tennisa Nordfelt: Well, and this is kind of what I was, this quote was exactly what I was thinking.
When I talked at the beginning about what the Spirit told me is. Like, you can, you can kind of, you can kind of see the position and we, and I think we see this happen today, right? Kind of see the position where if you're not, if you're not standing in holy places, if you will, you feel this. this non alignment and it kind of feels uncomfortable.
And so I can imagine that that's how these people were feeling. They're like, I don't really like what he's saying because he's not only is he calling me out and saying the things you're doing are really bad and your heart's not in the right place and all those, but then he's telling me that because of I'm going to be destroyed and be in eternal damnation basically.
Right. So yes. So you can see why it feels like, why they would automatically be not wanting to listen if they're not standing in holy places, right? Oh my gosh, Tennisa, that's so good. Yeah. And, and, and so as I, as I read the quote and as I was trying to relate the piece to the people and understanding where they were coming from, um, the thought came to me of just humility, because I think, I think you could even be.
Um, standing in holy places, but have an attitude that probably isn't an alignment with maybe the attitude the savior would have. And even that puts an edge on listening to what the prophet has to say or puts an edge on living your covenants exactly, just because you're not. exactly aligned with, with being on in this, in this higher, holier place.
And so I think it would be hard. It would be really hard and I can see why they maybe wanted to throw things at Samuel, right?
[00:19:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, in fact, let's look at one of the first things he says to them that made them feel uncomfortable. I like that you use that word. In Helaman chapter 13, bracket off versus 11 and 12.
Now, we learned about this clear back in first Nephi chapter one. It's another Hebraism, but you're going to notice the word woe many times. And the reason why he uses this word woe is because it's called a woe Oracle. And the people at this time would have known what this is. This is scripture terminology for them.
And anytime the Lord speaks and he's, he's upset with his people, he will give them a woe. So in verse 11, read that for us, please. And notice the woe.
[00:20:37] Tennisa Nordfelt: Okay. So this is verse 11 and chapter 13. But if you will repent and return unto the Lord your God, I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord. Yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but woe unto him that repenteth not.
Now go to verse 12. Yea, woe unto this great city of Zarahemla. For behold, it is because of those who are righteous. that it is saved. The righteous saved. I love that.
[00:21:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm-Hmm.
[00:21:12] Tennisa Nordfelt: woe unto this great city for I perceive sayeth the Lord that there are many, even the more part of this great city that will harden their hearts against me, sayeth the Lord.
[00:21:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Now go to verse 15 and 16. You're gonna see well again. There it is. Whoa, whoa. I marked it again in verse 24. It's all over. And when they hear that, whoa. Their ears perk. They know, they're like. Hold on. Like it's not that bad. All right. They know a woe oracle and this should cause them to stop in their tracks.
And so they do not like this. Wait a minute. A woe oracle is a little bit tough Samuel, like, but Tennisa, I want you to go back because you said you love that part in verse 12 it is because of those who are righteous that it is saved. Why did you love that?
[00:22:01] Tennisa Nordfelt: What Saley said earlier that, um, That God is merciful.
He is a merciful God. And, and he, and he is in relentless pursuit of his children. Right. So those who are on our hearts and mouths of mind as we're praying, do not go unnoticed by God that he, it is because of them who are praying that there is potential for those who are not to be saved. And that is, like Saley pointed out earlier, is the ultimate act of mercy, really, to allow us to be a conduit or to pray on behalf of others.
And often that's all we can do, right? We can love and we can pray. We can love and we can pray.
[00:22:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Beautifully said and powerfully. Thank you. Let's do another unpopular thing that Samuel Lamanite said, and I'd love to know your thoughts on this. Okay. So in Helaman chapter 13, look at verse 17. Saley, will you read that for us?
[00:23:10] Saley Nordfelt: Mm hmm. And behold, a curse shall come upon the land, saith the Lord of hosts, because of the people's sake who are upon the land, yea, because of their wickedness and their abominations.
[00:23:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So I can imagine the hearing a curse will come upon the land. All right. But then he defines the curse in verses 19 through 21.
He gives this whole thing about how their treasures will not that they can't hide their treasures and if they bury them in the ground, they're going to be found. Then I want you to cross reference these verses with Helaman chapter 13. Verses 28 through 39. I mean, it's the whole chapter, but he really gets into it in these verses in 20, uh, yeah, and I just think this is great.
Helaman chapter 13, 28 through 39, and he uses a really interesting word here. So he calls them out in verse 29, but then verse 31, we wanna mark, so say we continue to read for us, will you please read verse 29 and then skip to verse 31.
[00:24:13] Saley Nordfelt: Alright. O ye wicked and ye perverse generation, ye hardened and ye stiff naked people, how long will you suppose that the Lord will suffer you?
Yea, how long will you suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yay. How long will you choose darkness rather than light?
[00:24:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. We'll pause for there for a second. Actually. How do you think they're taking that first? Right. They're hearing that about themselves.
[00:24:40] Saley Nordfelt: They're like, what? Like, I don't know.
They're like, I, I feel like some of them, like, I wonder how long it makes me wonder how, like, how long have they been living in this way? Because maybe they've been living like this for so long that like, they don't even know what that, what they're doing is truly wrong. And so I would assume that they are confused and also they're like, how dare you accuse me of this?
Yeah. Right.
[00:25:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and then this idea, how long will you suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? I mean, if, have you, if either one of you ever been on a trip and you had somebody guide you through something or on a hiking trip and you had a guide. What if it was blind? Right. Seriously. You're not getting anywhere. And so he says this to them. Then he says, the land will be cursed because of this in verse 30. And then here's the tricky kind of cool word. Go ahead, Saley. Read verse 31.
[00:25:41] Saley Nordfelt: And behold, the time cometh that you curse your riches, that they become slippery, that you cannot hold them.
And in the days of your poverty, you cannot retain them.
[00:25:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, this is so interesting because when I have been studying this, I'm like, what in the world? Slippery, you bury him and then it gets lost. It just seems like the craziest curse I've ever heard of and we're gonna put the links in our show notes to some really great scholarly articles, but here's kind of what this is about.
Some naysayers who are against the Book of Mormon believe that this These verses right here are actually written about Joseph Smith's time and that Joseph just kind of wrote this in. It was familiar to him because at his time people would bury riches. They would bury them and then at night they'd go dig them up and bury them somewhere else in an attempt to protect them.
And that's why there were a lot of people who were digging up trying to find hidden riches and different things like that. But there is actually Egyptian text that dates far before Joseph Smith that talks about this being a practice at the time about riches being slippery. But then I thought this was so cool.
In this idea, one scholar causes a prophetic lawsuit and he says, we have this judgment oracle and it basically interweaves God, the humans, the devil, demons, destroying angels. You're going to read all about that in these writings from Samuel, the Lamanite prophet. But then he says, as a part of this picture, their items becomes slippery due to God cursing the land and the earth obeying God.
And the people disobediently hiding their treasures instead of hiding them up to God. And then Mormon, because this seems so crazy and bizarre, I love how Mormon brilliantly thinks I better follow this up. I don't want people to read this wording from Samuel, the Lamanite prophet and think he wasn't speaking the Lord's words.
So turn with me to Mormon chapter one, and we're going to read verses 18 and 19. And Tennisa, will you read that for us?
[00:27:39] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yes. And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites, did infest the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof began to hide up their treasures in the earth, and they became slippery, because the Lord had cursed the land, and they could not hold them nor retain them again.
It came to pass that there were sorceries and witch crafts and magics, and the power of the evil one was raw upon the face of the land, even unto the fulfilling of the words of abai. And also Samuel the Lamanite. Thank you.
[00:28:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And I think that's hard for us because I don't have a context for something becoming slippery. Do you, like, as you're thinking about this now and you've learned about this, tell me some of your thoughts.
[00:28:25] Tennisa Nordfelt: So the first thing that came to my mind, um, when I read. Uh, the back in 13, 29 and 30 was how easy it is. And it actually reminded me of something, um, that Saley learned in her mission in one of her areas, the people were really well off.
And so they were satisfied with their lives because they had plenty of, of means financially. Saley, is that, am I describing that the right way?
[00:28:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm.
[00:28:57] Tennisa Nordfelt: And so when I read talking about the stiff nakedness and choosing darkness rather than light and having treasure and hiding up treasure, it made me think of, Do we get to a space where we're so content or satisfied that we no longer hear?
We've been doing something long enough or we've been desensitized by things long enough. It's harder for us to hear or to understand even what God wants or expects from us. Right? Oh,
[00:29:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: wow. Well, then I love this because then our riches do become slippery, meaning our ideals or we lose what's important to us.
Cause I'm reading this thinking riches and treasures. Like, really, like, I'm imagining like a gold candle opera or a golden lamp that you can rub and get a genie out of, like, those are the treasures. But what if the treasures we're speaking of here are family and relationships? And I think you're right.
We get sometimes so comfortable with all that we have around us that those things can become slippery. We can lose that, which is really the most important to us. That's a great train of thought.
[00:30:09] Tennisa Nordfelt: And even like the most sacred truths that we may have known at one point, I think, I think those become slippery if we're too focused on something else, right?
Like, like this, this. This community that Saley was teaching in, in her, in her mission had, had there, there wasn't a need or a space for precious truths because they felt like something else was filling that space and it's a delicate balance, I think, of where we find our fulfillment. Saley tell me about that experience.
[00:30:48] Saley Nordfelt: So this was the hardest area in my mission, um, and it was because of that because we would knock on people's doors and, and we, and it was a very small area too, like we could drive across the entire area in 20 minutes. So we would knock on these people's doors like at least once a month. They were probably so tired of us, but it was interesting to me to visit all of these people in, um, fortunate circumstances, and to see how they used the things they had and their beliefs to push us away.
And, like, we met a lot of people of color. All different religions, they're like, you know what? We already have our church, so we're good. We're fine. I mean, it was fun to like go around and be like, Oh, this is a huge house. Like, yeah, this is really fun. But in reality, it was like what my mom was saying. What are they really putting forth as the most important thing?
And so something that we used a lot was the importance of the family because If they wanted to be like to have an internal family, then they were going to have to put aside their, you know, their, their things that were, that they thought were important and turn to things that were actually important.
[00:32:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love how we've taken this idea and applied it in such a way.
Like it's so profound to me now, when you go back to 31, if you consider that riches is family, And love and behold the time cometh that he cursed your family or your love or your ideals that they become slippery, that you cannot hold them. And in the days of your poverty, you cannot retain them. Like it won't matter what, whether you're rich or whether you're poor, unless you lay hold on to the truth that we're trying to teach you.
Doesn't matter. None. I think, yeah, wow. I've never considered that before. Like. Yeah. This whole time I'm thinking of truly actual physical things are worth a lot of money, like a yacht, but maybe we're talking about things that really matter here. So that was a great discussion. Thank you to both of you for sharing your thoughts on that.
So now there's one more thing that he said that was probably the most wildly unpopular thing. He said, We're going to show you what that is in the next segment.
Segment 3
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[00:33:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Grab your scriptures because we're going to mark a few things as we tell you what it is that he said that I think was wildly unpopular. We're in Helaman chapter 13. We're going to mark versus six through 11. Okay. Helaman 13, six through 11. We've already pretty much talked about this and mostly you're going to find it in verse 11 and Tennisa read it.
Will you read it for us one more time, Tennisa?
[00:33:43] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yes. But if you will repent and return unto the Lord your God, I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord. Yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but woe unto them that repenteth not.
[00:33:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Circle the word repent. There it is.
Repent and repenteth. Let's cross reference that to Helaman chapter 14 and we're going to go to 14, bracket off verses 15 through 19 and write to the outside of that. Repentance. But we're going to read verse 19 Saley. We read verse 19
[00:34:21] Saley Nordfelt: therefore repent, you repent, repent, ye, lest by knowing these things and not doing them, ye shall suffer yourselves to come under condemnation and you are brought down unto the second death.
[00:34:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you.
Okay. And the last one is Helaman chapter 15 verses seven and eight
and let's read verse seven and I'll do that. And behold, ye do know of yourselves. For you have witnessed it that as many of them are, as are brought to the knowledge of the truth and to know of the wicked and a vulnerable traditions of their fathers and are led to believe the holy scriptures. Yay. The prophecies of the holy prophets, which are written, which leadeth them to faith on the Lord.
And unto repentance, which faith and repentance bringeth a change of heart unto them. So ladies, tell me, why is repentance so unpopular and not just with these people?
[00:35:18] Saley Nordfelt: I feel like there is definitely like a negative connotation with repentance, even in, um, Other religions as well, like that if you have to repent, then you've done something wrong and, and there's already like, there's so much judgment in the world that if, if people have to repent, then they're, they're like ashamed and embarrassed and they don't want any, anyone to find out and Satan loves this because he makes you think that you should be punished or, you know, Like suffer the consequences if you repent and, and like, he's really good at making you think that if you repent, then you're just going to be worse off.
[00:36:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How would you teach it to people on your mission and how was it received?
[00:36:14] Saley Nordfelt: My favorite way to teach it on my mission was that repentance isn't a bad thing. It's actually like the greatest thing you can do because it is. We would say that to repent means to turn and it's not turn around in a circle.
Right. Um, it's to turn away from your sins and to turn towards God. And people loved that because there were, I met so many people who, you know, struggled with addictions or Just struggled with, like, other various things, and they had the desire because I served in the South where a lot of people, you know, they already loved Jesus because they already were Christian and they had that aspect of their lives, but they loved the idea of putting those things behind them and turning to God and focusing on him.
And so I, I loved learning that on my mission by my companions who like would teach it. And then I would hear it and be like, no way I want to teach that to everyone. Yeah.
[00:37:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how you said that. In fact, I went back to Helaman chapter 13 verse 11 because it says exactly that. Turn away. He says he'll turn his way to anger.
Let me try that again. Because it says to repent and turn unto the Lord. And I think this is so cool. So I wrote your, what you said to turn away from sin and turn towards God, focusing on him. Saley, you're in my scriptures. Wow. That is good.
[00:37:54] Tennisa Nordfelt: I love that too. A turn. It was kind of what I had in mind as well.
Thinking about, um, and actually, Saley, I love that you shared that because not everyone does look. Look at repentance that way, right? So if these people were in the frame of mind, they didn't want to hear what they were doing wrong. They weren't ready to change. So they weren't ready to turn. They, they had their focus.
on something that was in front of them. And I, I would venture to say they had their focused, uh, inward, probably on their, on themselves. It was very inward. And what I had thought about in preparation is that repentance is about turning outward. So I love that. See, they said, turn away from the sin and turn towards God, because that, that isn't about ourself.
When we're turning away from something, we're turning away from selfish desires or selfish addictions or selfish fulfillment, right, right? We're turning, we're turning toward others and we're turning towards God and we're turning towards higher and holier things, um, which aren't about selfishness or about.
Love and giving and growth and improvement and, and light, really.
[00:39:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. We have to read this quote then from our prophet, from President Nelson, because he says exactly all of this. It's so cool. So we're going to put up this quote. And it's in our show notes. And he talks about what the word repentance means in the, in Greek.
Tennisa, can you read this for us, please?
[00:39:40] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yes. The word for repentance in the Greek New Testaments is metaneo. The prefix meta means change. The suffix neo is related to Greek words that mean mind, knowledge, spirit, and breath. Thus, when Jesus asks you and me to repent, he is inviting us to change our mind, our knowledge, our spirit, even the way we breathe.
He is asking us to change the way we love, think, and act. Serve, spend our time, treat our wives, teach our children, and even take care for our bodies. Nothing is more liberating, more ennobling, or more crucial to our individual progression than is a regular, daily focus on repentance. Repentance is not an event.
It is a process. It is the key to happiness and peace of mind. When coupled with faith, repentance opens our access to the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
[00:40:45] Saley Nordfelt: I love that.
[00:40:47] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yeah, I love that too. Tell me why, Saley.
[00:40:49] Saley Nordfelt: Um, I mostly, I just love, okay, my favorite person in the world, Jesus. So literally anytime Jesus is mentioned, I, I am all over it.
And so I love it. It mentioned the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I actually wrote that down before I even like read this quote, um, because I realized that really. Jesus Christ, he suffered like he suffered so that we wouldn't have to suffer. In fact, there's a scripture in Doctrine and Covenants 19 verse 16.
So it says, for behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent. And like, I just think that's awesome. Like if, if we just, Do something as simple as repenting as as changing our ways and turning ourselves toward god Then we won't have to suffer because jesus christ has already done it for us and and really that is us accessing the power of his atonement and that just brings me a lot of like comfort and also confidence in knowing that I have the access to Jesus christ's power Um, to help me to get closer to him.
[00:42:24] Tennisa Nordfelt: And I love that it said that the quote said, nothing is more liberating, more ennobling or more crucial to our individual progression than is our regular daily focus on repentance. Repentance is not an event process. So, all of that, like having access to, to the Savior's, um, redeeming power, right?
Everything that, that Saley just said is liberating and ennobling. And so, so really when you think about it, why is, why is repentance scary? Why, what, what's the big deal, right? Right. You just have to turn and then you have power and it's beautiful. And I also, the fact that it's not an event, it's not just a one time thing.
It's, it is a process. It's something we do every single day, constantly. And something that I, that kept coming to mind as I was reading, you think about the Nephites that Samuel's teaching and the history of the fights and then how did they, how did they get to this space? Well, the reality is, I mean, Saley and I are a generation apart.
And so just because I have an understanding and a view of the thing of things in the gospel and a view of the things in the world, it doesn't mean Saley has the same views. In fact, we see things differently because we're a generation apart. And so being part of a group of people does not guarantee that from generation to generation, they're going to remain righteous.
So they're going to remain under certain political views, which is why this. regular daily focus on repentance. It matters for every individual. It doesn't matter if you're a Nephite. It doesn't matter if you're a Lamanite. It doesn't matter what political views you have. Each individual person in order to progress, to be a part of the process of repentance has to have regular daily focus on repentance.
[00:44:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Okay. You really struck a chord with me when you said you guys are a generation apart. So I'm going to ask you this question. So sit back. Both of you just get really comfortable. Okay. So here's my question then. Tennisa, how would you encourage someone to repent who was a generation away from you? And Saley, how would you encourage someone to repent who's a generation away from you?
What do you want them to know? How would you encourage them?
[00:45:00] Tennisa Nordfelt: This is so good. And framing it, framing it right for the generation is really important. I think I would frame it as And we've talked about this in our family before that there are going to be a lot of things that we can let into our heart and mind, and they're surrounding us in lots of forms.
And in the generation that is below me, that may be. a lot by means of social media. And as we are engaging in social media, what is it that we're letting into our minds and hearts? Is it filled with light or is it filled with darkness? Does it produce light within us or does it produce light without us?
And then as we apply that to repentance, repentance equals Light. It's all the things that make us feel good. It's all the things that, that help us to move forward and to serve others, that the next generation is so good at seeing the good in people. Truly. I believe us. I watched Saley. Yeah. And her, um, frame of mind for new things and new people who aren't like her is way better than me.
And I think that that generation is so good at seeing that. And so I would, I would advise have that frame of mind with repentance and with savior. See yourself, see yourself with Jesus the way you see others and let him, let him heal you and let him bring light to you.
[00:46:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So good I'm just taking so many notes.
All right. What about you? Saley? Well, what's your advice? What's your encouragement?
[00:46:51] Saley Nordfelt: I, something I love about repentance is when President Nelson says, um, the joy of daily repentance. I love that. Repentance brings you joy. And for most of my life, I. I never understood that about repentance, I kind of always thought of it as, as something that I needed to do just, just to check, like to check it off a list so that I could get into the celestial kingdom, but once President Nelson came out with that and, and said that, that it brings you joy, I was like, What?
I'm like, that's awesome. And it really does bring you joy. And I think that when we don't repent, we're just carrying a burden on our shoulders and nobody likes to have a burden. Nobody likes to feel weighted down by things, different things that are going on in their lives. Like you want to feel free and you know, like you could, you feel like you're, you're flying if you're free.
Um, Oh, the joy to be found when you repent and when you can take that burden off and run to your heart's content. I love it.
[00:48:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love it too. I love that you said, Oh, the joy to be found when you repent. You're absolutely right. Repentance is joy and repentance is light, and we're going to talk about what that light is in the next segment.
Segment 4
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[00:48:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, you two, what are some announcements that our culture likes to send out or receive, especially recently? Have you guys been getting any kind of announcements? Tell me about them.
[00:48:49] Tennisa Nordfelt: Oh my gosh. The first thing that I thought of when you said announcements, we have like a funny joke in our extended family that if someone at a gathering is like, everyone, I have an announcement to make.
Everyone always says, you're pregnant. So no matter who, that's what everyone gets up.
[00:49:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that. I have an announcement. You're pregnant. Okay. That's fantastic. I love it. I'm not pregnant. Okay, good. Okay. Tell me some other announcements that you guys are getting.
[00:49:20] Saley Nordfelt: Graduation announcements.
[00:49:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right.
[00:49:23] Saley Nordfelt: And wedding announcements. It's wedding season.
[00:49:25] Tennisa Nordfelt: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Saley gets, like, three wedding announcements a week from people in her mission.
[00:49:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, yeah. You do. Oh, I remember that phase. So many weddings. Yes. In fact, let me ask you this, Saley, about when it comes to wedding announcements. Um, have you already started, have you started working on your wedding announcement?
[00:49:44] Saley Nordfelt: Oh, absolutely not.
[00:49:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What? Why not? Because there's no prospects right now. Oh, so you wouldn't work on it yet because you're not engaged or dating. Is that right? It seems ridiculous to announce something before we're even sure it's going to happen, right? Okay. I want you to be kind of thinking about that because right now in Helaman we've got a faith based announcement.
I mean, can you imagine if it's like, I've already gotten my invitations ready. I know what's going to happen and I'm going to give you the timeframe of when it's going to happen. No, we would never do that. That's ridiculous. Boy, Samuel, the Lamanite, thus sayeth the Lord. He's going to give us an announcement.
Let's turn to human chapter 14. We're going to mark two of the most specific prophecies or heavenly announcements in scripture, and they're given to Samuel concerning the birth and death of Jesus Christ. So here we go. He'll him in chapter 14 and we're going to bracket off versus two through eight. And he's going to give this announcement.
So cool. So in verses two through eight specific, okay. Talk about specifics. Just look at verse two and tell us how many years is it going to be before we see this announcement? Five years. Yeah.
[00:50:55] Tennisa Nordfelt: Just specific actually. Like when do you see that specificity? in the scriptures. I don't, not very many times.
[00:51:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No. Talk about a faith based. I wonder if even he was like, seriously, five years. What if I get that? I mean, maybe question that seriously. I'm going to say it. Yeah. I give unto you a sign five years more cometh and behold, then cometh the son of God to redeem all those who shall believe on his name. And then he tells us the sign.
Saley read verse three and four, please.
[00:51:25] Saley Nordfelt: Okay. And behold, this will I give unto you for a sign at the time of his coming. For behold, there shall be great lights in heaven, insomuch that in the night before he cometh there shall be no darkness, insomuch that it shall appear unto man as if it was day.
Therefore, there shall be one day and a night and a day, as if it were one day, and there were no night. And this shall be unto you for a sign. For ye shall know of the rising of the sun, and also of its setting. Therefore, they shall know of a surety that there shall be two days and a night. Nevertheless, the night shall not be darkened, and it shall be the night before he is born.
[00:52:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So bracket that off and write sign of birth. And the sign is a day and a night and a day. So it will be as if there is no night, just a continuation of daytime. Now let's go to the next announcement in Helaman chapter 14 and it's verses 14 and 15 and he's going to set it up by saying, and behold, again, another sign I give unto you, yea, a sign of his death.
And the sign then turned to verses 20 and 21. And Tennisa, will you please read the sign?
[00:52:41] Tennisa Nordfelt: But behold, as I said unto you concerning another sign. a sign of his death. Behold, in that day that he shall suffer death, the sun shall be darkened and refused to give his light unto you, and also the moon and the stars.
And there shall be no light upon the face of this land, even from the time that he shall suffer death, for the space of three days to the time that he shall rise again from the dead. Yea, at the time that he shall yield up the ghost there shall be thunderings and lightnings for the space of many hours and the earth shall quake and tremble and the rocks which were upon the face of this earth, which are both above the earth and beneath the earth, You Which, you know, at this time are solid, or the more part of it is one solid mass shall be broken up.
[00:53:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So I have a question for you two. Why do you think the Savior's sign of his birth and his death involve light?
[00:53:43] Tennisa Nordfelt: Because he, he is light. And so at his birth, we have an extra bright light that leads people to him. And, and when it says that the sun shall be darkened and refuse to give his light unto you, I just.
Um, immediately just think of like, even, even the elements feel sorrow for this anguish and pain that the Savior suffered for us. And so great was that anguish and suffering that it was followed by darkness.
[00:54:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I like that so much. In fact, I love as you just spoke about that, how, for me, the spirit testified that that's true. And you can't help but say, I mean, you just know you feel it when you talk about the savior and light.
[00:54:38] Tennisa Nordfelt: Yeah. And that light that, that, uh, that he rose again, right? Like you can even just feel and, and, and see the light as he, as he was risen.
[00:54:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Yeah. Right. It seems so appropriate. And I'm shocked because of all the signs of all the things you could do when the Savior is born. And when he dies, it's so appropriate that it's all about light. Here's a quote. This is from Dallin H. Oaks. Saley, will you please read this for us and what he has to say about the Savior and light.
[00:55:11] Saley Nordfelt: Jesus Christ is the light of the world because he's the source of light that quickens our understanding because his teachings and his example illuminate our path and because his power persuades us to do good.
[00:55:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm just curious, have you ever known someone where you've seen his light persuade them to do good?
Yes. What happened?
[00:55:37] Saley Nordfelt: Um, there were a lot of members that I knew, um, in my mission and it was so cool because we would bring them to the lessons that we had with the people we were teaching. We would ask them to bear their testimonies and whenever they would, you could just see like, you could just, like, you could just tell that the light was there because they They knew that it was true, what they were saying to those, to those people who weren't of our faith.
And you could see their light reflect in the eyes of the people that we were being taught. And it was a really powerful experience, um, to see that, to, to see the light of Christ working within them.
[00:56:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I can tell that that is still with you, isn't it? Mm hmm. Wow. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that, Saley. What about you, Tennisa?
[00:56:44] Tennisa Nordfelt: Um, yes, I actually can think of someone who's very dear to me that was struggling with a, with a trial and at kind of the, the crux or turning point of the trial, knew that the savior was the only way to get through the trial. And watching, um, the struggle before. And the illumination that happened after and the weight, let's say we talked about the burden being lifted earlier.
Um, that the savior can do his light lights the way, but it also lifts us along the way.
[00:57:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. Thank you. His light does. I appreciate so much in this quote when he says that his, it illuminates our path because his power persuades us to do good and just that idea where it really does persuade us to do good.
And I think many of us have our own personal examples. I know his light persuaded me to do good. And by that it meant to repent and it, it goes back to what both you said, that repentance brought me light. It brought me so much joy and I loved that. Absolutely. But I also love this other way that he persuades us to do good.
And I had to experience this on my path to repentance. I'm gonna tell you what that is in the next segment.
Segment 5
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[00:58:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So we have a mother-daughter duo here, and I could not help but ask this question. I just had to ask it. Tennisa, as a mom, did you or do you ever correct your children? Oh, what?
[00:58:24] Tennisa Nordfelt: Oh, yes. Every single day. And myself too, let's be honest. But yes. A lot of correcting and, and coaching happening at home in the Nordfeltt family.
[00:58:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All around. All around. All around. Saley, what, what's it like when your mom corrects you? Oh no. I know you didn't think I'd ask a follow up, but I have to.
[00:58:49] Saley Nordfelt: I am one to not listen the first time that I'm being told something, so it usually ends up with her asking me nicely a few times and then finally she gets frustrated and, and then I'm like, okay, okay, okay.
[00:59:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think that's perfect. Now, Tennisa, let me ask you this though, but don't you love your children? Like why do you correct them?
[00:59:15] Tennisa Nordfelt: Uh, Oh, well, I love them a lot. And that, that is why I correct them. I, I can see their potential. And while I don't know everything, like I sure wish there was a magic chip we could put in our brain to tell us how to parent.
But since that doesn't happen, um, I know I'm not perfect, but, but I do have perspective that they don't have it. I can see their potential. I can see what the possibilities are. And I know we can't always see that for ourselves. And so, Because I can see that I want to help them. I want to correct them so that they can move along in their progression.
[00:59:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hold the phone. Perspective and potential. Okay. That was awesome because we're going to read a scripture in Helaman chapter 15. Verse three, about why God corrects us. And I think Tennisa just beautifully summed it up. He has perspective of how we could be, and he sees our potential. So let's read Helaman chapter 15 verse three and Tennisa, will you read that for us?
[01:00:24] Tennisa Nordfelt: Verse three. Yea. Woe. And to this people who are called the people of Nephi, except they shall repent when they shall see all these signs and wonders. Which shall be shown unto them. For behold, they have been a chosen people of the Lord ye the people of Nephi ha he loved and also ha, he chastened them ye in the days of their iniquities. hath he chastened them because he loveth them.
[01:00:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, highlight that word, chasten. You've got that twice. And right there, and you perfectly said this, the reason he chastens them Tennisa is because you said you love your children. He loved them and he has perspective and he sees their potential. So we're going to do a fun little thing.
We're going to call this the chastening scripture chain. And I want us to just look at all of these verses. We're going to connect them. And this is going to be fun because we're going to see this evolution of why we need to accept chastisement from the Lord. And then I want to know if it's ever happened to you, if you've ever been chastised.
So here we go. We have Helaman chapter 15, verse three to the outside of verse three, right? This scripture reference Job chapter five, verse 17. And Saley, will you please read verse 17?
[01:01:37] Saley Nordfelt: Absolutely. Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth, therefore despised is he. Not thou the chastening of the almighty.
[01:01:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, why do I not have that mark? Make sure y'all mark that one. Happy is the man who God corrects. Don't despise his chastening. Okay. Next to that scripture, let's put Psalms. Chapter 94, verse 12. And then to this, if you'll read that, please.
[01:02:06] Tennisa Nordfelt: Blessed is the man whom thou chasteneth, O Lord, and teach us him out of thy law.
[01:02:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh. So if you get chastised, you're blessed. Okay. Here's our next one to that verse. Read informative. Okay. Good. Second, Timothy chapter three, verse 16, I'll read this one. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Now, how about that? That just changes everything. When you read your scriptures, it's the purpose is for reproof, correction, and instruction. Okay, now we're going to go to Hebrews. So next to that verse in Timothy, put Hebrews chapter 12 verses five through nine.
[01:02:48] Tennisa Nordfelt: And ye have forgotten that exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, my son, despise not that the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him.
For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth. And scourges every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with his sons. For what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, wherefore, all are partakers, then are ye bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence Shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the father of the spirits and live?
[01:03:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that one. It just instills in us that he is our father, our dad, we are his kids. Oh, and it goes back to you Tennisa. Of course you love your kids. Of course I love them. Okay. Here's another one to the outside of Hebrews. Put Mosiah chapter 23 verses 21 and 22. And Saley, will you read this for us?
[01:03:56] Saley Nordfelt: Nevertheless, the Lord seeth fit to chasten his people. Yea, he trieth their patience and their faith. Nevertheless, whosoever putteth his trust in him, the same shall be lifted up at the last day. Yea, and thus it was with this people.
[01:04:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, now we're going to go to Helaman chapter 12, verse 3. Here it is. And thus we see that except the Lord doth chasten his people with many afflictions, yea, except he doth visit them with death, and with terror, and with famine, and with all manner of pestilence, they will not remember him.
Now put to next to that Ether chapter two, verse 14, we have quite a few, but it's worth it. I love this scripture chain. It's Tennisa. Read this for us, please. Chapter two, verse 14 in Ether.
[01:04:41] Tennisa Nordfelt: And it came to pass that the end of four years that the Lord came again unto the brother of Jared, and stood in a cloud, and talked with him.
And for the space of three hours, did the Lord talk with the brother of Jared and chastened him because he remembered not to call upon the name of the Lord.
[01:05:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Next one is Doctrine and Covenants section one, verse 27 hit it, Saley.
[01:05:07] Saley Nordfelt: Okay. And in as much as they sinned, they might be chastened that they might repent.
[01:05:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Great. Now we're going to go to section 95 verse one in the Doctrine and Covenants and I'll read that. Barely thus saith the Lord unto you whom I love. And whom I love, I also chase in that their sins may be forgiven for with the chastisement. I prepare a way for their deliverance and all things out of temptation.
And I have loved you. Okay. That might be my favorite one. Oh, that's so happy. Now we're going to go to three more in the Doctrine of Covenants section 101:2-5.
[01:05:41] Tennisa Nordfelt: I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted and consequence of their transgressions. Yet, I will own them, and they shall be mine in that day, when I shall come to make up my jewels.
Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son. For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified. Oh, okay.
[01:06:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Next to that, let's put section 105, verse 6. Saley, go ahead and read that for us.
[01:06:25] Saley Nordfelt: And my people must needs be chastened until they learn obedience, if it must needs be by the things which they suffer.
[01:06:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And then the last one, we're going to put Doctrine and Covenants section 136 verse 31. And it says, my people must be tried in all things that they may be prepared to receive the glory that I have for them. Even the glory of Zion and he that will not bear chastisement is not worthy of my kingdom. And then to the outside of that, you're just going to write where we started.
Helaman chapter 15 verse three. So here's my question. After all those verses we just read about chastisement, why in the world would chastisement make us worthy of his kingdom? What's he trying to teach us about this word?
[01:07:08] Tennisa Nordfelt: I actually love that you took us on the scripture chain journey because In the instance of Helaman, where Samuel's teaching, I mean, he's teaching because they're, they have a lot of wrongdoings, right?
They're not, their heart's not in the right place, they're, they're sinning. A lot of the chastening happening in the scripture chain didn't really, wasn't necessarily about sin. It was about obedience and it was about humbling. It was about other things, other. Um, reasons that we need to be close to Christ and, and drawing us from other states closer to Christ.
It's not always sin. It's not always sin.
[01:07:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right. Oh, that's great insight Tennisa. I like that.
[01:07:59] Saley Nordfelt: Um, and also this, these scriptures just remind me of, so I'm a dancer and I've been dancing since I was three. So it's been like a lot of years now. And, um, I, I can't ever, like, I can't see what I look like when I'm dancing unless I'm, like, staring at the mirror or, like, someone's recording me.
So I don't know, like, what I'm doing wrong when I don't match the other dancers, and I don't know if I'm doing something right. Or the, like the counts are off, but I have like dance teachers and dance coaches that, that helped me to see like what I'm doing wrong, what I need to fix, and also what I can change so that I'm like, I'm a better dancer.
Like. God isn't trying to chasten us to, to put us down or to be like, nope, you're doing this wrong. He says, listen, I can see what you're doing. And if you just, if you just tweak this little thing, then your whole, it's going to make it so much easier for you. Like everything you're doing is going to be so much better.
[01:09:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that training.
[01:09:16] Tennisa Nordfelt: I love it too. I know. I love it. I, cause, cause then you're thinking of as, I hope this doesn't sound like I'm not giving reverence, but you're thinking of God as like your coach, right? Right. So that instead of it being scary or like you're not perfect, it's, Oh, God is chastening me. So chasten just means teach or coach.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Instead, right? That feels actually that feels amazing.
[01:09:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love that so much too, because Saley, I don't know if you know this about me, but I took ballet at BYU for a semester. But I will tell you, are you coming up? Listen, there's no pictures of me in my leotard. Thank goodness. I will tell you this though, because as you were talking, I had a very vivid memory of me standing at the bar and I have my hands on it and I'm trying to put my legs in First position, right?
And I am not like, there's no part of my body that bends. Well, I just, I've never been given. I danced as a little girl and I just could never, um, say that I am not flexible, but I have a very vivid memory of this sweet teacher coming over and she just gently got down on the ground and just moved my foot a little bit more out to the side to put me in a better first position.
And she didn't say anything to me. She just. Just gently nudged my foot and help put that in the right spot. And I was like, Oh, that's where I belong. And now I'm just thinking like, isn't that how God works? Like here, let me just help nudge you. Oh, that's where I belong. Oh, okay. I can remember that. Like this has been such a great discussion about chastisement because he is.
It teaches us, it coaches us, it helps us to improve. Going back to how you started Tennisa with perspective and potential. And then again, how you began at the very beginning. The whole intent is to bring us home. That's all he's doing when we get, when we experienced chastisement and when we feel that like, uh, it's okay.
He's just trying to bring you home. So just put that foot in first position and you're going to get this just fine. And then you're gonna become a premium, but prima ballerina or a great dancer like Sali. And then it's, you know. Bigger things. You gotta correct , but you're used to it, so it's not gonna hurt your feelings.
That's how I feel about it. So that was so awesome. Okay, so we'll end our discussion about this because then we have one more thing to talk about in the next segment, and I think this is such a great thing because it's a word that kind of goes in this idea of being corrected and something that we need to do on a regular basis in the world we live in today.
We'll talk about that next.
Segment 6
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[01:11:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In the Come Follow Me manual. I just loved their approach to Helaman chapter 16. So we're going to use it. And here's what it says. What do you learn from people who accepted Samuel's teachings? And what do you learn from people who rejected him? So I asked my guests to read through Helaman chapter 16 and just come prepared to share with what did you learn from the people who accepted versus rejected and share with me what you've got.
[01:12:22] Saley Nordfelt: I was surprised that I thought I was going to find something from the people who accepted his teachings first. I thought that was going to stand out to me first. But, actually, what stood out to me was something that I learned from the people who rejected his teachings. Which, uh, was weird to me. I can't wait.
But, uh, chapter 16, verse 15, it says, Nevertheless, the people began to harden their hearts, all save it were the most believing part of them, both of the Nephites and also of the Lamanites, and began to depend upon their own strength and upon their own wisdom. I have had a lot of experiences where the Lord has told me, Has chastened me sometimes I feel like if I ask for help then I'm just putting on a burden on someone or I'm just drawing attention to myself and so I've been chastened in that way to be humble and to ask for help and so this is what I was reminded of.
That when they depended on their own strength and their own wisdom, like, things just didn't end up well for them.
[01:13:33] Tennisa Nordfelt: And I had just, this is also something about the people who did not follow, because sometimes, I mean, sometimes, even if we are doing the right things, we probably can relate more with The people who didn't accept his words, then we think, tell me about that. And I talked about this a little bit earlier too, is about the point of view or an attitude or some, um, concept that we've like let in and we're kind of entertaining that's maybe prohibiting us accepting or living exactly what the scriptures or what the prophet is asking for us to do. And I found this, I found that these couple of verses.
That's really interesting. In verse six, um, it says, first of all, it says the more part of them did not believe the words of Samuel. And I thought, is that, is that where we are today? Is it, is it the more part that aren't believing the words of the prophet even within the church? Is it the more part? Or is it the lesser part? And what should it be? And where should I be? Yeah, I'm like, which part am I? Yeah. And the, the scripture that came to mind is Mosiah. If you believe these things, do them. So these people weren't willing to do that. But the lesser part. Were, they were willing if he believed these things, do them, they were willing to, to be baptized and, and make covenants and do these things.
And then in verse six, therefore when they saw that they could not hit him with their stones. So they're so, not only do they not believe him, but they're so annoyed. that he's like in their space and telling them that what they're doing is wrong, that they try to hit him with their stones and arrows.
Right. And then when it didn't work, they go to their captains and they say, bind him up. He has the devil. So there's so far in this, this state of mind, their hearts are so hardened that it's, it doesn't even occur to hit them. Like it seems like, it seems like to me that it doesn't even occur to them. That it could be that he is protected by a holy power because he's teaching truth.
They immediately go the other way. And, and I just, I just don't ever want to be in that space. I don't want to be this more part. I want to be the smaller part that followed and went and found and sought out Nephi and said, I want to make a covenant and I believe these things. So I will do them.
[01:16:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my goodness. I think that is so awesome. And it's the same thing that stood out to me, but the way you phrased it was perfect. Which part am I? Because look at verse 10. This is so cool. Okay. Verse 10 says, and thus ended also the 80 and seventh year of the reign of the judges. The more part of the people remaining in their pride and wickedness.
And the lesser part walking more circumspectly before God. So I looked up circumspectly like, all right, what does this mean? And I was reading this one morning that I was reading it one morning and I was like, what is that word? So I had to look it up circumspectly and I was, I can't even believe this is so cool.
Here's what it means cautiously with watchfulness every way with attention to guard against surprise or danger. I think this is so cool because which part of my, am I the more wicked part remaining in my pride or am I the lesser part that's walking cautiously with watchfulness in every way before God that has me just questioning where I am.
And I think it's so cool to this that that stood out to you, that idea of which part, because then I'm like, how do we walk circumspectly? What is it that we can do to walk cautiously with watchfulness? I love this idea. with attention to guard against surprise or danger before God. What are things, especially in light of the fact that conference is coming up pretty soon, what would you recommend in preparation to walk circumspectly before General Conference?
[01:17:57] Tennisa Nordfelt: Um, I mentioned before like the, the letting the light in versus letting the darkness in. Part of this walking circumspectly, it's almost being on the defense, right? Like, what am I consuming? What truths, what am I allowing to be truth and, and, and then what rich, what truths am I accepting in my heart and for what source do they come?
If we're always kind of on the defense of our spirit. And we're at the defense of staying on the covenant path. I think it's the right kind of defense to be on. That is how we can be prepared to, to receive more truth.
[01:18:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Wow. Wow. What a fun discussion. Okay, that's it. We're done. The end of our discussion.
So take a minute and just gather all your thoughts. And then I always ask my guests at the end of each episode, what was your takeaway? What's one thing you'll remember or one thing you learned or one thing you want to just continue to teach?
[01:18:56] Tennisa Nordfelt: I definitely didn't get to say these dance metaphor, just realizing that, um, when we hear chase and it feels harsh, right?
It feels, it feels kind of like what Samuel was delivering to the Nephites and it just, it feels hard. It feels hard to hear, but if we can reframe that. To just receiving some feedback that will help us do our best to help us perform the best to look the best to be the best and the thing we're doing shift, I think can really help me, especially as a recovering perfectionist able to frame not being perfect in that way and knowing that that God is merciful and corrects me because he loves me.
[01:19:48] Saley Nordfelt: Amen. Amen.
[01:19:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. So good.
[01:19:52] Saley Nordfelt: I would say my biggest takeaway, which is my takeaway often, actually, um, with a lot of things, is that things aren't as bad as, as we think they are, like trials, they're hard in the moment, but I always look back and I'm like, actually. That wasn't that bad, because I had God on my side, and I had Jesus Christ right next to me.
And, all this, like, talking about, like, repentance, and, and chastening, um, I feel like so many of us are like, right, like, we have those negative connotations, and they sound harsh, and they are scary a little bit, but, They're awesome, actually, and God does everything to benefit us, like, none of it is to benefit him.
It's, it's all for us. He does, he gives us commandments, he, he corrects us, he allows us to repent. Everything is for us. And, and even though we might have, like, these ideas about. Um, about different things and if, if certain things make us uncomfortable or, or if we don't understand truths or principles in the church, it's, it's really just not as bad as we think.
And God has a reason for it. And the reason is to benefit us and to help us to get back to him.
[01:21:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Tennisa, that was awesome. And I say Tennisa because I'm looking at your mom. Yeah. That was pretty cool to hear your daughter preach like that. Nice job, Saley. Thank you.
[01:21:54] Saley Nordfelt: Thank you.
[01:21:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. My takeaway for sure was the dance metaphor.
That was so powerful because you both contributed greatly to that discussion and I loved it. And then I love how we wrote down perspective, potential, and, and that you called God our coach. I couldn't think of a better word for him and a teacher for us. So I think we learned so much in that segment about why we get chastised or corrected or why we're being taught.
Just a little nudge. That's all. And so I appreciate that so much. It was great. So thank you. You're awesome. I love you guys. Thanks so much for having us. Thank you. Wow. Okay. Well, what was your takeaway? Go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you have learned. And you can even ask questions or even post something that you just want to talk about.
And our community is so awesome that people will answer and add to. And it just, it's so fun to see what people have to say about different things. Then at the end of the week, we're going to post a question from this discussion. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.
You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDS, living. com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have links to all of our references, including the whole chastisement chain. You're going to want that and a whole transcript of this discussion.
So go check it out. And by the way, friends, those of you that live in Plano, Texas, Phoenix, Arizona, or St. George, Utah, I'm coming to see you. So go to magnifythegood. com and sign up for the event and come and listen to me and a bunch of my friends. We are going to have so much fun. We get to spend the whole day together and talk about Jesus.
I can't think of anything better. And listen, I might bring some cheese in my purse. The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participants were Tennisa Nordfelt and Saley Nordfelt.
And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And remember that God is your coach and you are his favorite.