The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: More war chapters. Now today we get to study Alma chapters 53 through 63, the army of Helaman and the people of Moroni. You know, it was so interesting to see that these warriors and people of God had some crazy awesome advantages over their enemy, which surprisingly had nothing to do with numbers. Or military skill.

In some ways, their situation felt really familiar to those of us who sometimes fail outnumbered and overwhelmed in our latter day battle against Satan and the forces of evil in the world. So we decided to take a careful look at what those advantages were and to see if any of them could possibly help us in our overwhelming battle against Satan.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week. And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy. Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study.

Just like my friend, Rosio Gomez and her sister. Marcia Nymer. Ladies, I love you, love you, and I loved meeting you. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today I am so thrilled to introduce you to my two friends.

They are Sharmaine Howell and Wendy Stucki. Hi ladies.

[00:01:26] Sharmaine Howell: Hi Tammy.

[00:01:27] Wendy Stucki: Hi.

[00:01:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How do you two know each other?

[00:01:31] Sharmaine Howell: Well, Wendy Stucki is the most amazing woman in the world, and my mother.

[00:01:37] Wendy Stucki: We go way back, all the way to the day she was born.

[00:01:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my goodness. Well, Wendy loves her Shar, that's for sure. I love how much love there was the soon as we got you on the video.

It was a love fest between you two, darling. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and if anyone is like Stucki, that sounds familiar, where we had her son Grant Stucki on last year to talk about the physical effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, which was so awesome. We loved that episode. And now we get to have mama Stucki.

This is going to be so fun. I'm so excited. Wendy, tell us where you are right now.

[00:02:13] Wendy Stucki: So my husband and I are serving a mission in Zimbabwe, Harare, and it's a miracle that I'm even on this podcast right now because we haven't had power or internet and with lots of prayers, I'm able to talk to you today. So yeah,

[00:02:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: she's not kidding. Yeah. So many prayers have already been prayed this morning. And the fact that we have internet right now, because it was, it was real touch and go before we hit record. We were nervous. I mean, I might, you had to get back on and off. Like this really is truly a miracle.

[00:02:46] Wendy Stucki: It's a miracle. Yes. Heavenly father loves us and he's aware of us.

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. So I'm super excited for today. It's going to be a good discussion. Oh, I love you too. Women so much. Well, we're just going to jump in rather than take time to chit chat and get to know each other. Cause like you said, the internet is unstable in Zimbabwe, so whatever time we've got, we're going to milk it and get as much information as we can about these incredible scriptures.

So if you want to know more about my guests, go read their bios and you can see pictures of them, which are in our show notes at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures and let's dig into Alma chapters 53 through 63. Okay. You two right out of the gates. First question, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you studied these chapters?

[00:03:31] Wendy Stucki: Okay, I'll go first. Um, so many awesome things. I love these chapters so, so, so much. And I mean, it, it taught me so many things, but the thing that stands out the most to me is in Alma 62 verse 41. So I'm gonna read that. It says, for behold, because of the exceedingly great length of the wars between Lamanites may had become hardened because of the exceedingly great length of the war.

And many were softened because of the afflictions in so much that they did humble themselves before God, even in the depths of humility. I love that scripture immediately. When I read it, I, I, it resonated with me because So many times we can go through the same experience as someone else, and one person's becomes hardened and another person is softened and their heart is softened.

And I have had so many times in my life where I have to choose whether I'm going to become better or bitter. And I think that's exactly what they do here is the wars. And the difficult times makes them stronger and better. And I just love that. It resonated with me.

[00:04:58] Sharmaine Howell: That's so good, mom. I'm writing that down really quick.

[00:05:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Me too. I love it. Better or bitter. Wendy, what do you think makes the difference between being better or bitter? How do you, what do you think makes a difference between being come hard or humble?

[00:05:13] Wendy Stucki: I think it's the desires of your heart. Um, and I think why it resonates with me is I've had so many experiences where I could become better or bitter.

And one stands out that I really learned a lesson too, and I'll just share it. When I was a young mom. I had three miscarriages in a row and it was really, really hard for me. And I was just really struggling after I had that third miscarriage. I was just, we wanted a big family and Shar was a baby. And, um, we just wanted more children to come to our home.

That was our desire. We just wanted a big family and it wasn't happening. And every time I went to church, I would see my friends that were expecting and they were so happy and it just hurt my heart. And, um, I was talking to my sister in law and I was telling her how difficult it was for me to go to church and see everyone with their babies in their arms.

And I kept losing mine. And, and she gave me some advice that has stuck with me and it really hit home. And she said, Wendy, this is a trial. This A time in your life where you draw closer to the Savior or you distance yourself from him. Don't start going to church just because your heart is hurting. Find out what you can do to become better.

Don't become bitter. And I thought, you know what? You're right. I don't want to become bitter. I love my savior. I know he's there for me. I'm going to find out what the Lord wants for me and what he wants me to learn. And it so happens that I got pregnant again and I lost even another one. And that one was my hardest one.

I was five months along and I actually had to go in and have the baby and it was so difficult for me, but my heart had changed by then. And I was so grateful. To be able to bring dinner to my friend who had just had a baby and hold her new baby because my heart had changed. And the reason my heart had changed was because I decided after I talked to my sister in law that I would dive into my scriptures and I would find out what Heavenly Father wanted to teach me.

And it was that very thing that led me to have a regular scripture study in my life. That difficult time and I've done it ever since. And, um, I'm so thankful actually now for that experience. I wasn't then, but I'm thankful that it drew me closer to the savior and helped me. And I don't really know why I just chose.

And I think it comes down to the desires of our heart.

[00:07:54] Sharmaine Howell: Hmm. That's awesome.

[00:07:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is. Wendy, thank you for sharing that experience. I mean, I learned so much from your experience, just your story, witnessing and testifying that we have a choice. I wrote down in my scripture also next to bitter or better. And then I wrote in my drawing or distancing, like, what am I doing with my experience?

So thank you for sharing that

[00:08:17] Sharmaine Howell: Mom and your choices to do that and be a stalwart scripture reader have affected me. And so these choices that we make and like on our response to our trials really affect other people as well.

[00:08:29] Wendy Stucki: Yeah. I didn't know it then, but I, I do see that now. So thanks Shar.

[00:08:35] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah.

[00:08:35] Wendy Stucki: Neat.

[00:08:36] Sharmaine Howell: I love these chapters too. I was so excited. When Tammy sent these chapters to me to study, I was like, yes, we just hit the jackpot, baby. And I know they're like war chapters and we've probably, you know, we've already been studying war, but, and it seems like just more of the next, but this is like gold to me, these chapters, because I can just put myself in every one of these chapters and I can see my life in it and I can see experiences that I've had in it.

And I can just, it's just so relatable to me. Um, because I just feel like we're all like life right now, this day and age, we are all living war chapters, right? And it just feels like this is what we're living. And this is like how to get through it. And one of the things that really stood out to me was probably nearly in every one of these 10 chapters, it was mentioned that they knew God would deliver them.

And I love that phrase, uh, the stripling warriors, they, they did not doubt because they knew God would deliver them and Helaman was writing to Moroni and it said that God would deliver, you know, he knew it. And then I love that for Horan when he got bald out was, was, um, writing back to Moroni and he's like, I know God will deliver you will deliver us.

But I need your help, you know, and so like, they all just kept pointing back to this God will deliver us, um, you know, thing. And the verse that really stood out to me is in Alma 58 and, um, verses 10 through 12. And I won't read it all, but I love the word, um, you know, as we're thinking about how we are in these like war chapters of our lives and how we are trying to rely on God delivering us and being there for us and, you know, delivering, like setting us free and giving us, you know, Um, the power that we need in our life right now, I love verse 11, the word assurances that the Lord did visit us with assurances that just really stuck out to me as I was reading this, this time through and, um, and, and it continues on that the assurances that these stripling warriors and heal them in God were Peace and faith and hope and deliverance and courage and, and that while we're going through these really hard things and like the story that you shared mom, it is, um, he will visit us and he will give us an assurance that it's going to be okay.

Not, not, not solving our problems, not fixing the trial we're going through. But those assurances will help us as we're deciding whether we're going to become bitter or better or drawing near or distancing. And I just love that thought that, that he is, he's going to visit us and he's not going to leave us to ourselves in it alone.

And I saw it through all these chapters that as they felt alone or secluded or lost or too small to fight that. They knew God would deliver them. And I just love that theme throughout the whole thing.

[00:11:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And what's so neat is as both, as you were talking and then I was connecting it to what Wendy said, because now I'm thinking an all powerful God, that's who we believe in.

He can do anything. He can fix the internet for us in Zimbabwe and he can end a war. And it just is now connecting with me that he didn't end it. Like you would think that that's, that's clearly what they want. They just want the war to be over. We don't want any more death. And I think it's just beautiful.

He's like, he's, he never did end the war, but that he gave them all these promises along the way in the war while they're in the thick of it. Um, That is so cool. I think this is a really great idea. It's a great connection, especially as we study today. What do these things have to do with us? And will any of the tactics that work for them work for us?

And already we can tell we're one segment in. If this is all we got from today, I would be like, that is enough. That is awesome. So this is going to be an awesome discussion in the next segment. We're just then going to dive in to what those tactics were and really ask ourselves, could this work for me?

Is this real or is this just nice in scripture? And that will be where our end up takeaway is at the end. Like, is this for real? So I want you to be thinking about that as we study each one of these tactics and we'll dive into the major first one in the next segment..

Segment 2

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[00:13:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're going to start this segment with a quote from President Ballard. Now he gave a talk in 2020 and it was an address to the students at Ensign College. And it's fascinating to me because I just stumbled upon this as I was searching and studying out this next tactic. Because in this address, he warned that the world is moving rapidly away from the teachings of Christ and that Satan wants God's sons and daughters to stop practicing good habits learned at the home in seminary Institute or on missions.

He even said that Satan wants us to stand on the sidelines in today's important and crucial battles. And then he said this, remember my dear young people, we are at war. A continuation of the one that began in the premortal world. Then he cited the story of the 2000 stripling warriors, and then he pointed out this scripture turned to Alma chapter 53 verse 17.

We're going to read the scripture he quoted because it's in our studies this week, Alma chapter 53 verse 17 and shark. Can you please read that for us?

[00:14:05] Sharmaine Howell: They entered into a covenant to fight for the liberty of the ne fights. Yay, to protect the land until the laying down of their lives. Yay. Even they covenanted that they would never give up their liberty, but they would fight in all cases to protect the nephites and themselves from bondage.

[00:14:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, in verse 17, highlight the word covenant and covenanted. You're gonna see that a lot on this page. And then here's what Elder Ballard said. And I'm going to have Shar read this quote.

[00:14:32] Sharmaine Howell: The Lord wants you to become the modern stripling warriors who stand strong and united to defend the truth. He wants you to be creagious and stalwart in the face of the enemy's advances.

We know that in the end, the Lord will win the day and Satan will be defeated.

[00:14:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. And so signing that scripture in Alma is one of the ways he believes that we can win the day. I think this is so cool how we can help the Lord win the day and how this battle will be won. And both of you. So here's what I did.

I asked these two ladies to read all of Alma chapter 53 through 63 and I said, okay, on your own highlight all the tactics that you think could help us in the war that we're in today. And I was shocked because you guys didn't talk. Did you? You really did on your own. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They sent me their lists.

I could not believe how closely parallel they were. There were some, and we'll talk about those later that you had on your own, but this was one of the very first ones you both wrote down that you felt so strongly about. And it's straight from this verse. So the word was, and the, tell me what the tactic is lady, what did the people do?

Entered into covenants, covenants. So in Alma chapter 53, highlight verses 10 through 20, and you're going to want to look for the word oath and the word covenant. And I just want to know from both of you, what role does covenants play in helping us become modern day stripling lawyers? Why is this important to you? Why did you mark covenants?

[00:16:01] Wendy Stucki: Cause it's huge. It's everything. Can you imagine fighting a war without the savior? I cannot imagine going into battle. It's like going into battle without any armor or the swords or anything, and just standing there yourself and just saying, Hey, don't get me, you know? Uh, I cannot imagine going without.

The armor of God. I can't, it just, covenants are everything. They're everything.

[00:16:32] Sharmaine Howell: Yep. I love it. Cause it talks at the beginning of 53 and 10, it talks about the covenants that the stripling warriors parents first made to not, to not fight. That was in verse 11. They'd taken an oath that they would never shed blood and how that was so powerful for them.

Uh, covenants. The, the reason why they're so helpful is they give us power. That's like the whole reason, right? It's it's like my mom saying, you don't go into battle without like your, your fighting tactics or your swords and your shields, right? The covenants that we make in the temples and with our heavenly father give us the power that we need to make it through doing everything else.

So the first covenant that the parents made to never fight gave them power. Um, to, to, um, change their lives, to live the way they needed to and to, to live and to survive and to not die. And um, and then I just love, as I think about the stripling warriors and then in 17, they made a covenant that they would never stop fighting, which is so interesting because their covenants like look the exact opposite, right?

To one should never fight and one to never stop fighting, but they're, but they're covenanting for the same thing to preserve lives. Right to save lives and to follow the savior. And so, um, I just love that the, the strength in making a covenant that they know if we make a promise, we can get power to do the thing that we've been asked to do.

And so as we make promises with heavenly father in the temple, we can get power to do the things that we've been asked to do in our life. And I just love that they, these young boys and And as like, we've heard in so many different places that they were probably very young. They probably weren't the muscles that we picture with bare chest, right?

They probably were young and you know, twigly, I'm assuming, stripling, I don't know. Maybe that means super strong, but I'm picturing like, you know, my 10 year old, almost 11 year old little guy who's like, sure, I'll fight. I could do anything, you know, but, um, I scary thought. But I love that they watched as they grew up, watched their parents keep covenants and that taught them that they could do the same and receive power.

They saw the power of their parents received with their covenant keeping. And they said, Oh yeah, I, if I make a covenant, I don't need a doubt. I know that I will be delivered and, and I love that that phrase maybe doesn't mean saved in their instance. Maybe it just means. Delivered or spiritually? Spiritually delivered. Right?

[00:19:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

[00:19:23] Sharmaine Howell: Because like their fathers laid down their lives sometimes in order to keep their covenant and some were killed. Yeah. As they kept that covenant. So as a, you know, they, they, their mothers taught them that, Hey, you keep covenants, you'll be delivered. That doesn't always mean to live.

Right. Delivered. Delivered to not die. And so I think that that's probably why they were able to go in not fearing death. Because they knew covenants gave them power to do what they needed to do and delivering means returning to Heavenly Father in the end, whether it's now or later, right? I absolutely agree.

I just love the pattern of showing their parents covenants and the example it was to these, to their children.

[00:20:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that too. Oh, how powerful was it when the moment when you said covenants give us power? And I immediately went to all of the talks we've had From our prophet, from, from our female leadership in the church, because that power is priesthood power.

Covenants give us priesthood power. I mean, and then going with what you said, Wendy, who wouldn't want priesthood power going into a battlefield? It's the only thing we can count on. It's an absolute guarantee. Priesthood power.

[00:20:41] Wendy Stucki: Exactly. Exactly. I love, I love, love, love the talk. Um, Drawing on the power of Jesus Christ by our prophet.

And one of the things he says in there, and this is a quote, he says, we increase the savior's power in our life. When we make sacred covenants and keep those covenants with precision, our covenants bind us to him and give us godly power. And, and I love, I love that thought. Also in that same talk, he says, Faith in Jesus Christ propels us to do things we otherwise would not do. I mean, think about it. These young boys were not, it's not normal for them to go out and fight. So, but they had so much faith in Jesus Christ and what their mothers and I'm sure their fathers had taught them and, and their example, not just their words, they were showing their children how to keep covenants.

They were living it every single day. It's this faith that motivates us. To action gives us more access to his power. Faith that motivates us to action, gives us more access to his power. And as I read that, I just, and reading about these young boys, in fact, in, um, Alma 56 verse 47, it says, now they never had fought yet.

They did not fear death. So it's not like they thought, Oh, we're all going to be saved. They were going to fight. For their liberty, their freedom, the freedom to worship God. And and they said, we're going to go do it. If we die, then we die in the Savior.

[00:22:23] Sharmaine Howell: I think so much of their faith comes from them knowing that they had God's power with them because they're like, we'll make this covenant and we'll get his power. Let's go do this.

[00:22:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And then I'm struck with the idea, going back to even how we started, Shar, when you said your mom's example of her reading and studying the scriptures has affected your life. I don't know that we fully really have embraced as adults how profound an impact our influence is on little kids.

Because sometimes I think Satan wants us to say, you do you, you've got to find what makes you happy and all. And then it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, or your kids will have to just figure it out. I don't know. There's just so many different things that we're being told as adults. When really, Um, really everything we do, kids see, okay, let me just say what I'm feeling here.

It is because the spirit is teaching me something so awesome right now, based on what the two of you taught me. And this is what it is that the example that these boys had. was not on how to fight. They had no example of going to war or using a sword or anything, nothing to look at from their parents and going, Oh, here's how they did it.

The most important example they had was keeping covenants. I am amazed by this idea. It's not new. I mean, clearly prophets and apostles have taught this. It's just now sinking in right now. It really does matter. And whether your child is 14, a stripling lawyer or 40, I really believe that the impact of the example is the same.

So thank you. Thank you for teaching that to me. I love that. I just learned that it is such an important tactic. So in the next segment, then we're going to talk about two specific tactics that kind of combined into one that both of you thought was important. We'll do that next.

Segment 3

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[00:24:15] Sharmaine Howell: Before we start this next segment, can I just say this? There is so much that we could pull out of these chapters. It's crazy. We just have to just, I guess, take these little bits and just talk about them. There's too much to talk about.

[00:24:29] Wendy Stucki: There is so much. We could talk all day about this. It's so great. I'm just so excited.

[00:24:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love these chapters so much. I would love it so much. If all of our listeners would go on to Facebook or Instagram and share tactics you found that we didn't talk about because we only get six segments worth. Actually five segments worth of, of tactics. So I want to know what other people are finding.

That is great. You're right. Sure. You're totally right. Okay. So here we go. You both separately put these tactics. We're going to start with Wendy's tactic in Alma chapter 56. There are some very, very awesome ones. And Wendy, I want you to talk to us about Alma chapter 56 verse 22. Let's go there and read it.

And then I want you to share your thoughts. Why did this stand out to you? Here we go. Alma chapter 56 verse 22. And then we're going to cross reference it over to Alma 57 verse nine. So here we go. Wendy, will you please read chapter 56 verse 22.

[00:25:23] Wendy Stucki: Okay. And it came to pass that we kept spies out roundabout to watch the movements of the Lamanites that they might not pass us by night nor by day to make an attack.

On our cities. And then in, and we'll talk about that in a second, just hold that thought. And then in Alma 57 verse nine, it says, and we did sleep upon our swords and keep guards that the Lamanites could not come upon us by night and slay us. So I love these two because it made me, first of all, In the very first one, it says we kept spies roundabout to watch their movement.

It is so important for us to know our enemy. If we're going to fight a battle, we have to know the enemy. We need to know what they want out of us, what they, what they're doing. All their tactics that they have so that we can use our own tactics, right? We can't fight a war if we don't know who our enemy is.

And so it's so important for us in our lives to know where the enemy is. Also our enemy knows us really well. Satan knows us. He knows what, where we're weak. He knows where I'm weak. He knows where Shar Shar's weak. He knows where every single person and what they're. And maybe what one person's is, is not mine, but he knows where he can get me down.

And I am just so grateful to know that I can pray and heavenly father can help me know my enemy. The second thing is they slept upon their swords. And when I read that, I immediately thought of the whole armor of God. And what that sword means. And I thought of the, the helmet is the helmet of salvation and, um, the shield of faith.

And I just pictured them laying upon their swords and the sword stands for the spirit and the word of God. And what is the word of God? It's, it's all truth. And what Heavenly Father has told us and they didn't. You know, see the Lamanites coming and then run around their house and go, where's my sword?

Where's my sword? Hurry. They're coming. They're coming. They slept on their swords. They kept it right next to them. So they would be ever ready to fight that battle. And they watched every single time so that they would be ready for the enemy. And it tells me in my life that I need to have the word of God right next to my heart always because Satan's going to work on me all the time.

And I need to have Those scriptures and those thoughts and everything that Heavenly Father has told me to be true right next to my heart so that I can be ready when he tries to trip me up because he's not going to trip me up. I'm going to wake up in the morning and say, it's going to go, Oh no, she's awake.

She's awake. And I think Sherry, do you said that once and it always stuck with me and I want to make sure that I have that word of God right next to my heart. And I just love that. Just loved it.

[00:28:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amen. Amen. I do too. I've never once read that verse of scripture defining sword as the word of God or scriptures.

Now I'm reading. We did sleep upon our scriptures and keep guards that the Lamanites could not come upon us. That's so powerful. I love it. I love it. I wrote next to it. Where are my scriptures? Where is the word of God? Okay, so that's the first one. Oh, this is so fun. In fact, I actually included a quote.

I'm going to have you read this, Wendy, because continuing on from Elder Ballard's talk to the students at Ensign College, he said this about the armor of God. So I think you're going to really like this. He said this.

[00:28:57] Wendy Stucki: Okay. Put on the whole armor of God and join the battle today. Like the sons of Helaman did so many years ago, don't wait to get married or start your lifelong career or get older.

The church needs our young adults. Now the Lord needs you now. And you know what? He needs all of us right now. No matter what age we are, he needs us. To fight for him.

So I love that. Oh, I love that. Good quote.

[00:29:24] Sharmaine Howell: Mom. Okay. I think you're doing that right now. Serving a mission in Zimbabwe, you know, you step up when you join the battle and you're doing a fantastic job over there.

So good job, mom. Yeah.

[00:29:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Good job. Let's go to the word that you highlighted and we're going to go through and do a kind of a scripture highlight of this word. And then I'm going to have share talk to us about why she thought this was a tactic. So let's go to Alma chapter 56 and we're going to look at verses 27 through 29 Alma 56.

This word shows up a lot. So, Shar, will you read verses 27 through 29?

[00:30:03] Sharmaine Howell: And now it came to pass, in the second month of this year, there was brought unto us many provisions from the fathers of those two thousand sons, of those my two thousand sons, and also there were sent two thousand men unto us from the land of Zarahemla, and thus we were prepared with ten thousand men and provisions for them, and also for their wives and their children.

And the Lamanites, thus seeing our forces increased daily and provisions arrive for our support, they began to be fearful and began to sally forth if it were possible to put an end to our receiving provisions and strength.

[00:30:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Okay. That word you highlighted it and you said the word provisions stood out to you. Now, for those of you highlighting your scriptures, I'm just going to tell you where else you can find it. You're going to find it in Alma 57 verse six, the word provisions. You're going to find it in chapter 61 verse 16. And then you're going to find it in chapter 62, verse 12. If you just want to write, highlight those and do your little own provisions, scripture chain.

But Shar, I wanted to know, why did this word stand out to you? Cause I love the way you think.

[00:31:04] Sharmaine Howell: I love that they're fathers. who were keeping their covenants in the way that they needed to, couldn't fight these sons battles. They couldn't come and say, Oh my gosh, you need help and support. We're going to join with you and do it with you.

But they could, they could support them in the way that they could. And so they brought provisions or things that would lift them up, things that would support them, things that would give them energy, things that would help them in the way in their fight. So I just started thinking about like. I can't fight my kids battle.

I can't say, okay, I do not want you going through that. I'm going to do it for you. And I'm at this age, you know, I have a 16 year old and a 14 year old, and my kids are getting older. And sometimes I just want to fight their battles for them. And I don't want to see them going through these things. And I see it.

Sometimes I feel like they're at the front line and I can't, we can't do it for them. We can't fight our kids battles, but we see them, but we can show up with provisions. So I just had like at the bottom, um, like what, what are the kinds of provisions that I can provide to my kids as they are fighting their battles?

And. In what ways can we support others? Because these provisions and supporting and being there, this, that this made the difference for the stripling warriors. And in all those other verses, when people showed up with provisions, it made the difference for their battle. And it wasn't people showing up to fight their battle for them, but it was showing up to support them.

And so as other people are in their battles and fighting, our strength and our preparedness can really fortify them. And so like, in what ways can we provide provisions to others? And I love at the end that it made the Lamanites fearful. And I think when we show up and we support others and we help them in their covenant keeping path, it makes Satan fearful.

He does not want us to do that. And I just love that we can be that for other people.

[00:33:15] Wendy Stucki: Oh, I love that. Shar, that is so good. Sure. You're brilliant. That is so good. I wrote that down in my scriptures. Me too.

[00:33:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So awesome. I love, love, love that. What, what are some of the provisions you wrote down? What is an example of something that could be a provision in the war our kids are fighting?

[00:33:34] Sharmaine Howell: I think being there for them, um, listening to them. Oh, I like that. I think, um, encouraging them. And helping, helping them to stay accountable to the things they want to do. All we can do is just ask our kids, you know, how can I help you? I know, and just, you're, I'm aware of you. And a lot of times these people showing up with provisions, the people fighting were like, Hey!

They can see us. They know what I'm going through. We have not been forgotten here on this little spot of the battle. And so, you know, just turning to our kids and just simply sitting down with them and saying, I am so aware of what you're going through. And I see it and I know it's hard. And, you know, And it is hard, so I get it, but how can I help you?

So I think a lot of, a lot of times I think it's just simply just asking them in, in what ways can we support, you know, and then, and then obviously praying for them and praying for strength because prayers, prayers can provide so much more and God's power can do so much more than we can. But I think showing up for people is, is huge.

And that's exactly what these fathers did. They showed up for their sons, even though they couldn't fight their battle. And, um, we need to show up for people. It reminds me of president Nelson's challenge that he gave for his hundredth birthday gift when he said, you know, I'm almost 99. So I want you to look for the one, you know, we just, we need to show up for people and for the one, and for that one who feels like they're kind of out on the battlefield alone and they've been forgotten.

[00:35:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hmm.

[00:35:16] Wendy Stucki: Yeah. Oh, sure. I love that. You know, as you were talking, it made me, it made me wonder, I just wonder if those, you know, those here, those 2000 stripling warriors, 2060, we're going out to battle. I wonder if they're, if their parents were watching. If they were on the sidelines, if they were cheering them on, I know that if my child was going out to battle, I think I'd want to be there watching and making sure, Oh, be safe.

You can do this. Come on. Oh no, don't go over here. Oh, that guy's going to get you over there, you know, and. And I, I can only imagine that they were probably on the sidelines cheering them on. And I think that's really, really important to add Shar is that, um, we need to be on the sidelines, cheering our children on telling them you are doing better than you think you are.

You are doing so good. Keep that up. Oh my gosh. I'm so proud of you. And, and telling them how, what they mean to us and what their efforts mean. And how important that is. I can only imagine that they were watching and cheering them on.

[00:36:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and both of you said this and your comments summed this up perfectly was.

In the end, they weren't forgotten. And later on, we're going to find out that that's one of the reasons Moroni gets so angry at Pahoran is because he's like, you, you have forgotten us. Like what? And he sends two really angry letters we'll talk about later, but I think that's the heart of the reason he wrote twice is hello, where are you?

And right. Like that is the whole, that could there be a better provision than letting people know who we love? You are not forgotten. We're right here. So thank you. Wow. Those make perfect sense. Those are some awesome tactics. I love that you thought about this and I love your insights that both of you shared on, on these two.

Okay. So then in the next segment we have another tactic, but this is something they did, but it required years of preparation for this tactic to work. And so we're going to show you what that is coming up next.

Segment 4

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[00:37:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, this is a fun tactic because I asked my guests to use the Book of Mormon art catalog to help us teach this tactic. First let's go to Alma chapter 57 verses 20 through 21 to give us a little bit of background about what you use the art catalog for. So Alma 57, 20 through 21, Wendy, will you please read those two verses?

[00:37:53] Wendy Stucki: Yes. And as the remainder of our army were about to give way before the Lamanites, behold, their 2, 060 were firm and undaunted. Yay. And they did obey and observe to perform every word at every word in command with exactness. Yay. Even according to their faith, it was done unto them. And I did remember the words which they said unto me that their mothers had taught them.

[00:38:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Highlight those two verses. Then on the other side of the page, circle verse 27. And we please read verse 27. Wendy.

[00:38:28] Wendy Stucki: Now, this was the faith of these of whom I had spoken. They are young and their minds are firm and they do put their trust in God continually.

[00:38:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. A little background about who we're going to talk about.

Now, what pictures did you both choose that in your opinion you felt were just a beautiful depiction of these young men who were firm and undaunted, the stripling warriors, as we like to call them. So Shara, you can go first. Yeah.

[00:38:55] Sharmaine Howell: Oh, okay. I'll go first. First, I just loved looking through the catalog. I think that's, everyone should go look through it.

There were so many pieces of art that I've never seen before, and I thought that was really cool to look at all the pieces of art about the Stripling Warriors. But, um, I chose the, the one called It's True, Sir, All Present and Accounted For. This stood out to me because of verse 25 in that chapter, and it talks about neither Was there one soul among them who had not received many wounds?

And in this picture, if you look it up, um, it's at the end of a battle and they're all looking very tired and wounded. And done. And they're standing there and Helaman standing at the front, getting like an accounting for from the guy who's standing in front of him with a list and probably saying, they're all here, sir.

You know, they all made it somehow miraculously through this battle. And I just love this picture and the, um, thinking about that word wounds in verse 25 and how just made me think of Christ, how he was wounded for us. When he came here and he decided to keep those wounds on him even now so that we could know that we'll be able to conquer our wounds.

And none of us will get through this life unwounded. We will all, um, be beaten and and tired and And done at the end of the day on certain days, but, um, I just love this picture because none of them, none of them died, even though they, you know, even though they were at loss of blood and wounded, they all made it through and I think it goes back to the power that they had that they were fighting with, with the power of God, but they didn't make it through unscathed and, um, I just love this depiction because we're going to be definitely wounded in our life, but we can always all be accounted for as we are, um, covenanted and connected with Christ.

[00:40:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's an incredible painting. I've never seen that. I've never seen the stripling warriors wounded. That's the one we all should have in the church buildings.

[00:41:05] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah, it's a good one.

[00:41:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is a good one. Like the fight. Is hard.

[00:41:09] Sharmaine Howell: That is what I feel like every day, right? It's not like I feel like I'm this muscle person standing ready to go.

I'm like, no, I feel like this every day.

[00:41:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: This is more me. I feel haggard and sore. Absolutely. Like they are, I like you said that and they are done. Perfect description. Now going to these verses, the reason why they get to stand. Yes, they're wounded, but again, they were, I love it. They, that they've obeyed every command with exactness.

They had faith, uh, this idea that they were firm and that their mind, that they put their trust in God continually is why they're able to stand. Yes, they are wounded. But I said earlier, while those are really great tactics, it actually required a lot of work to get them to this point. And so the picture that Wendy has to share that takes us, let's go to Alma chapter 53.

We're going to look at verses 20 and 22. And then Wendy, I want you to share your picture. So Alma chapter 53, and we're going to read verses 20 through 22 that tells us about these young men. And Shar, will you read those verses?

[00:42:16] Sharmaine Howell: And they were all young men, and they were exceedingly valiant for courage, and also for strength and activity.

But, behold, this was not all. They were men who were true at all times, and whatsoever thing they were entrusted. Yea, they were men of truth and soberness, for they had been taught to keep the commandments of God, and to walk uprightly before Him. And now it came to pass that Helaman did march, at the head of his two thousand stripling soldiers, to the support of his people in the borders of the land on the south by the West Sea.

[00:42:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Now, in 21, it says that they were taught. Now, this is really cool because, Wendy, you chose a picture that shows all of the work that took place for them to be taught. Tell us about your picture.

[00:42:56] Wendy Stucki: So, I chose the picture that's entitled, Anti Nephi Lehi Mother and Her Stripling Warrior, and it is by Sierra Newbold.

First off, I just, all the pictures and, and the artwork on the Book of Mormon. Uh, you know, from the book Mormon are so awesome. It was hard to choose, but this one just stuck out to me right away and I knew that was the one I wanted to pick. So let me just describe it. It's a, it's a young mother and she is a Lamanite mother and she's, um, she's got a sweet little baby on her back that's tied it, that's in a little papoose and it's tied around her back and she's sitting on the ground, possibly in a sage brush.

And. And she's got a sweet little child. He looks like he's maybe four years old and he's standing between her knees and she has her hands stretched out and she's looking at him so sweetly and he's, and she has her hand on his cheek and she's just looking at him and they're just beaming, looking at each other.

And the thing that struck me is now, if we know anything about the anti Nepali Lehigh Um, they are well acquainted with grief and pain and war and destruction, and yet she is happy.

[00:44:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm.

[00:44:17] Wendy Stucki: And, and I just, I look at that and I think she is beaming. Why is she beaming? And. And what does it take to raise a child, um, that will go out and fight a war?

In my mind, I think all of us are doing that. We're all raising children that are going to go out and fight a war. And so what does it take to do that? And also this picture stood out to me because living in Zimbabwe every single day, I smell mothers with their babies on their back and they, um, were well acquainted with grief and pain and loss, just like this sweet mother.

And every day they would tie their babies on their backs and have little toddlers next to them and they would go out in the fields and they would work in the fields and they would carry water to their homes. And, um, and this is today in 2024 and I watched them as, um, they walked to church with their children, some of them for many miles.

And yet they would arrive beaming, smiling, happily greeting each other, never complaining about the hardship they had of getting there, of their lives, of their situation. And I learned from them that possessions, Don't make you happy that it's the gospel of Jesus Christ that makes you happy. And I also learned from them to be comfortable with the uncomfortable.

And if you look at, um, this mother, she's not sitting on a, on a cush couch. She's sitting on the ground. I mean, you know, You know, it looks uncomfortable to me. Yeah. And, and I so relate to that because I watch these women, um, these Latter day Saint women do this very thing that's in the picture and they're doing it today. And, um, I had, I hope my daughter's okay with me sharing this. It just came to my mind. She called me one day and she was, mom, I, she has six children. This is our sister, her older sister. And she said, mom, I'm just, um, I'm just overwhelmed with everything. My house is in disarray and the kids and I just can't get a handle on it.

And I'm sure we've all felt that way. I have felt that way. And, um, You know, I'm sure many, many women can relate to that. And, and she said, mom, I just, I just can't do it all. And I said, Sarah, all you have to do is just take Reed's face in your hands and just tell him that you love him. Let the house go.

It'll get cleaned someday, but he'll be gone. Your kids will be gone. And the most important thing that you can do is overlook everything and focus on your children. Focus on them and that's the most important thing you can do today. And I think that helped her and, um, it actually helped me because I wanted to reach out to all of my married kids and tell them how much I love them.

And you know, we're always a mother, even when our children are grown and out of the house, we can tell our children that we love them and that we believe in them. And I think that this sweet mother in this picture. Um, was telling her child that, um, that she loves him, that she has a heavenly father that loves him, that she believes in him.

And I believe that our testimonies and our faith, it is a daily work in progress every single day where we need to work on it. It's not just something that comes. Those boys didn't just, Oh, let's pick up our swords and run out and fight. Um, it was a minute by minute line upon line. Um, learning from their parents and, and watching.

And so that's why I love this picture so much.

[00:48:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and I think, and for those boys, how many moments did they have where their moms just put their hands on their little cheeks, you know, and told them they love them, told them they could do this or what I think is powerful is as you were telling your story about the women in Africa, my question was going to be, how do you think they're able to do it?

Like with all the hardship they're experiencing, how are they able to just carry on and go to church? But then you answered my question when you said it was the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I just, I love that powerful testimony about having faith in Jesus Christ, loving our savior. And it is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Help these mothers who had a, had experienced death who probably lost spouses or dear loved ones earlier on before these young boys took up their swords. And so they knew suffering and, and yet they still were willing to let these boys go. And they knew they would suffer again. Um, but the trust they had because of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So, oh my gosh, Wendy, thank you. Thank you for choosing that specific piece of artwork and for sharing your testimony about it. That was awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:49:24] Wendy Stucki: I'm just so grateful to have had the opportunity to witness people today. Live that and do that very same thing, living in hardship and smiling and carrying on because of the gospel of Jesus Christ is strength in my testimony.

That's incredible. Thank you.

[00:49:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's read Alma chapter 56 and we're going to read verses 47 and 48 because like I said, it took a lot of work to get them here. picture that Wendy talked about is a great example of when the work began. To get these stripling warriors to where they ended up. It's so cool. So in Alma chapter 56, and it's the, it's the classic army of Helaman 2000 stripping warriors versus scripture, and I love it.

So Shar, will you read 46 through 48

[00:50:14] Sharmaine Howell: for as I had ever called them my sons for they were all of them very young. Even so they said unto me, father, behold, our God is with us and he will not suffer that we should fall. Amen. Then let us go forth. We would not slay our brethren if they would let us alone.

Therefore let us go, lest they should overpower the army of Antipas. Now they never had fought, yet they did not fear death. And they did think more upon the liberty of their fathers than they did upon their lives. Yea, they had been taught by their mothers, that if they did not doubt, God would deliver them.

And they rehearsed unto me the words of their mothers, saying, We do not doubt our mothers knew it.

[00:50:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. And my question this morning as we were preparing for this whole episode, I just kept having this thought. What do you think their mothers knew? I just want to know from you, Shar, what do you think their mothers knew?

They did not doubt their mothers knew it. I mean, I know up above they tell us a little bit. They did not doubt that God would deliver them, but from when they were little kids, what do you think their mothers knew that they taught them to get them where they ended up?

[00:51:18] Sharmaine Howell: I think that they knew about God.

They knew him and that he was their father and that he looked out for them and that he knew them and who they were and was aware of them and that he would be aware of their sons and their children. And I think they taught them that, that God knows you, he's not going to leave you and, and you're his sons and you can have his power.

I mean, I think we've talked about that already on this episode, but I think it's like, there's nothing better that we can teach our kids than who they are. Um, in relation to God and the power that they get from him.

[00:51:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think going back to this idea that we watch our parents and that we learn from their examples because I want to know what did your mother's no, I mean your mom's here, but what did you grow up?

What did you know that your mother knew? And I'll tell, I knew my mother knew and I'd love for Wendy to tell us what she knew. Her mother knew growing up. What did you know your mom knew?

[00:52:14] Sharmaine Howell: Like she already said, mom, you said it. Um, You knew the scriptures and she knew that when she had a hard time and she had a question, she could look in the scriptures for an answer.

She knew it. And I, and I could go home after school every day through high school and see her reading her scriptures at the counter. And I knew that she knew that, right. And I mean, I know that it also doesn't talk about fathers, but I do think the fathers were also teaching them. Yes.

[00:52:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes.

[00:52:43] Sharmaine Howell: You know, and I just, and I know that, you know, my dad, he knew the gospel was true and he knew that, and he knows that if he gives his heart to serving and to being a silent server, he, um, that God will bless him and, and, and watch out for him.

So my parents have definitely taught me to love the scriptures and to be a silent server. And I love that about them.

[00:53:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love that too. My mother knew obedience. My mom. is strictly obedient. And that is a great example to me. She said yes to callings. She said yes to doing things for people and services her thing too.

I can remember one time we were, I was super little and we were visiting someone's house and um, they knocked on, she knocked on the door and then she looked around in the flower beds and noticed weeds. So she just started pulling their weeds. They were at home and she's like, well, let's, let's make this visit worth it.

And started pulling weeds out of their flower bed. I'm like, let's get out of here, lady. They're not all great, but I do hurt. She is service and she is obedience and I am very grateful for that example. And then my dad, my dad for sure. He, he was an example of studying the scriptures and digging in deep, diving in that.

That is for sure. My dad. So I'm grateful. I have no doubt. My parents knew those things, obedience, service, and scriptures. And, and you just go to church, that's what you do on a Sunday. You get up and you go to church. I love that obedience.

[00:54:11] Sharmaine Howell: Just like the, and it seems like that this stripling warriors knew that too, when it says that they obeyed with exactness, they were taught just like your mother taught you, you do it, you obey and you will be blessed,

[00:54:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: right? Yes. Oh, you're absolutely right. They did. Oh, that is so true. They obeyed with exactness. Thanks, mom. Thanks for that. What about you, Wendy? What did your mother know?

[00:54:34] Wendy Stucki: Okay. So my mom was an incredible mother. She was a great homemaker. But the thing I think that stands out the most to me is that my mother is a covenant keeper and she's passed away, but I know she's still keeping her covenants.

She kept her covenants even without saying anything. I mean, she taught me probably against my will. I mean, so many times if she heard the prophet say something, she would do it. But she always, always followed to a T and kept her covenants. And, and I believe what my mother taught me, that if I keep my covenants, power in my life.

And I. And I have, and I'm, I mean, I do have times when I, I'm scared and I do things that are scary, that are difficult, like go to Zimbabwe on a mission, but I know that I have the savior with me and he's helped me all along and I've done hard things that have been uncomfortable, but I've done it with his help and I learned that from my mom.

[00:55:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Beautiful lesson from your mom and how perfectly it just ties into our whole discussion about the example that parents can be when they keep their covenants. So Wendy, thank you. Thank you. Well, okay. This is neat. So because of who they were and what they knew, these young men were able to do this next tactic.

Talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 5

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[00:56:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, Zimbabwe, you gave us as much as you could. We really appreciate it. We had Wendy for four segments, which is miraculous in and of itself. So Shar and I are going to finish out the last two segments together and, uh, we love you, Wendy. Thank you. Mom.

[00:56:22] Sharmaine Howell: That was really fun.

[00:56:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It really is miraculous because the power just randomly goes out, she says.

So I can't believe we got your mom for as long as we did. That is truly incredible. I want everyone listening to think about a time in their life when they experienced what Alma chapter 58 verse seven says. Let's go to Alma 58 verse seven. And I know there's not a single one of us listening to be like, I've never had that.

Oh, we've had it. Here we go. Alma chapter 58 verse seven says, and it came to pass that we did wait in these difficult circumstances for the space of many months. Have you ever had to wait? In difficult circumstances for the space of many months, just wondering and hoping, and we didn't think about that and kind of maybe what happened years ago.

Maybe you're in the middle of it right now, just waiting in difficult circumstances. So I asked my guests if they had had an experience where they had to wait in difficult circumstances for the space of many months. And it tied beautifully to what Shar. What the spirit taught her because she shared in 58 versus 10 and 11, her favorite verses of scripture right there from this whole reading.

And so Shar, I'm just going to read 10 and 11 and then I want to know if you have a story where you had to wait in difficult circumstances. So here's what 10 and 11 says, therefore we did pour out our souls in prayer to God that he would strengthen us and deliver us out of the hands of our enemies.

Yeah. And also give us strength that we might retain our cities and our lands and our possessions for the support of our people. Yay. And it came to pass that the Lord God did visit us with assurances that he would deliver us. Yay. In so much that he did speak peace to our souls. And it grant unto us faith and did cause us that we should hope for our deliverance in him.

Now. Sure. I want to know, have you had to apply these verses in your life? Have you had to wait in difficult circumstances for many months? Do you have a story you could share?

[00:58:18] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah. When you asked me to think about that, um, I think we've all had a lot of those many months in our lives. Um, I know I've had. a few different times. But, um, the one that kind of keeps coming back to me that I thought I could share was a few, a few years ago, I think I've maybe shared some of this already on the podcast, but hey, we've been on here for five years, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like I'm growing up on the podcast for sure.

Um, but a few years ago, my husband had a really, really difficult time. And had a lot of, um, anxiety and mental health problems to the extent where we just couldn't figure it out. And it was definitely waiting for many months, many, many months. And it was not easy. And although I was the one not experiencing mental health, I was in this, um, we were in it together.

Like I, like it says at the end of verse 8, it says that they were to contend with an enemy which was innumerable. That stood out to me because sometimes we feel like we are just completely overwhelmed. That we can't even, we can't even see the end of the enemy coming, right? And I kind of felt like that in that moment, in those months of him struggling and trying to figure out what to do with life and how to handle, um, this mental health and anxiety and things that he was going through.

And, um, I feel like the two of us together would kneel down and pray. Multiple times a day and every single night I'd pray and pray and pray and we'd pray together that, that he would be able to find the strength and deliverance to get out of it. And I know a lot of people deal with mental health issues and it's, it's real.

Um, and when, when you're in the middle of those months of that, it feels, it feels like it will be innumerable. And that you won't get to the end of it,

but um, I want to bear my testimony that what it says in verse 11, that the Lord did visit us with assurances throughout. We felt his peace and we felt hope and courage and determination, even though it wasn't being resolved. And I can say that with so much faith that I know that, um, that he was there with us.

That even though we were like, what the heck are we going to do this? Why is this happening? And how is this going to be resolved? How is this going to fix itself? What does he need in his life? How can I help him? Um, um, it just seemed like, you know, without any clear answers, we had assurance that it would be okay.

And um, that was the, that was the most important thing we could ask for. And, um, and then in verse 12, it says, They were fixed with the determination that they could conquer our enemies and maintain our lands. And to me, maintain is the endure to the end function. It's, it's, um, we were determined we could do it and that somehow we would be able to endure to the end of that period of our life.

And I just, I just know that as we look to the Lord for these assurances, he can speak peace to our souls and he can give us the courage we need when we're stuck in these months of not knowing when it will end and we'll get the strength and we'll be delivered.

[01:02:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Shar, thank you. I appreciate you and your husband's willingness to be here.

So transparent with that experience because you're right. So many of us are dealing with that. We're in the thick of it. Um, uh, and I appreciate how you pointed out to contend with an enemy, which is innumerable. I don't think there's any other verse of scripture that could perfectly sum up what you're going through.

Um, what we in my family have gone through with mental illness. It is, it feels innumerable. It feels like there's no other, how are we going to figure this out? Um, You can't find answers fast enough. And, and sometimes you can't find answers at all. And you're really truly just shooting in the dark, hoping for the best.

So, um, I really appreciate you sharing that. And I, I want to bear testimony with Shar also that versus 10 through 12 are real, they are true, and that we can be visited with assurances that we will be delivered. Um, I've experienced that in my own life. So thank you, Shar. That was a beautiful story. What a great tactic and a great testimony that you shared that it works.

So, okay, well we have one last final tactic and I would probably say this one might be tougher than what we've already covered. And you're like, seriously? And I go, yeah, it is. Well, for me, actually. This next tactic, real, real hard, and we'll cover that in the next segment.

Segment 6

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[01:03:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So here's our last segment and our last tactic. And I just wanted to know, Shar, this is kind of funny because do your kids have phones that they can text you on?

[01:03:46] Sharmaine Howell: Yeah.

[01:03:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. How are you when you text your child and they don't respond immediately or when you call them and they don't answer? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:54] Sharmaine Howell: Me personally?

[01:03:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.

[01:03:55] Sharmaine Howell: Well, I, I like to, I like to wait for responses and I'm pretty patient, but my kid's waiting for me to respond. Very different story. Mom, mom, did you see that? Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark, mom, mom, mom, why aren't you answering? And I'm like, oh, it's been 30 seconds. What

[01:04:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: have they figured out how to ping your phone when you don't answer? And then the alarm goes off.

[01:04:17] Sharmaine Howell: Yep. And then they call and hang up and call and hang up and call and hang up.

[01:04:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm like, okay, we had to have a sit down meeting with the kids and say, here's the hierarchy of emergency. Like you don't get to ping my phone unless your arm has been severed. Like, right. What are you?

You're bringing me to see if you can door dash something. Give me a break. Yeah. My kids are wicked impatient. And I think this, I was thinking about this idea when we got to this next part of the story, which is found in Alma chapter 59, because I kind of feel like if Moroni was alive today, he would not do well if people did not immediately respond to his text.

[01:04:53] Sharmaine Howell: He was a passionate man and he needed some answers.

[01:04:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know what? That's great. That's our kids. Our kids are very passionate. Right. Passionate kids. You need some answers right now. You need some answers. Yes, very good. Okay. Turn to Alma chapter 59 and we're going to label some of these things. So Alma chapter 59 is letter number one from Moroni to Pahoran.

Now just as a little background, we love Pahoran. Pahoran. We love him. He is the chief judge. He has been left in charge of the city of Zarahemla and he and Moroni work in tandem beautifully. They have a wonderful working relationship. And so Moroni is writing a letter to Pahoran because his letter is, we need help.

And we need it now. And so he writes this letter and he doesn't hear back from Pahoran. So then Alma chapter 60, label that letter number two to Pahoran. Now, letter number two, how would you describe this letter in tone, Sharmaine?

[01:05:49] Sharmaine Howell: Uh, impatient and, and a little scathing

[01:05:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: and pointing a finger,

[01:05:55] Sharmaine Howell: right?

[01:05:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: He's so mad.

I think verse 22 is one that would hit me if I, if I got this letter, I'd be ouch. First 22 says, yay. Will you sit in idleness while you are surrounded with thousands of those yay, tens of thousands who do also sit in idleness. Well, there are thousands around about in the borders of the land who are falling by the sword.

Yay. Wounded and bleating. Like, can you sit in?

[01:06:19] Sharmaine Howell: I don't feel like that. They're like, mom, what are you doing all day? Answer me. You're so idle. You're so lazy. And I'm like, you don't even know what I'm doing.

[01:06:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You're totally right. You have nothing else to do. Why are you helping and taking care of me?

[01:06:34] Sharmaine Howell: Just respond to me. That's your life, mom. Yes.

[01:06:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. Okay. Wait, did you, were there any others that you marked that just show his passion in these, this chapter of Alma 60? Oh, 27. I put brutal next to the outside of our seven. And I will come on to, he's basically saying, look, if you don't help us, here's what's going to happen to you.

Porn. He says, and I will come into you. And if there be any among you that has a desire for freedom, yay. If there be even a spark of freedom remaining, behold, I will stir up insurrections among you. Even until those who have desires to assert power and authority shall become extinct. He's so mad 28. I don't fear for your power. Yeah. Okay. Anything you mark, Shar?.

[01:07:18] Sharmaine Howell: 29, the sword of justice doth hang over you, and it shall fall upon you and visit you. And he's like, you're gonna get it. Get ready. I wait for your assistance from you, except you do administer relief and test. Behold, I will come unto you, even into your land and smite you with the sword.

That's verse 30. In so much that you can have no power to impede the progress of this people. He's like, if you don't come now, I'm coming to get you so that you don't stop me any longer.

[01:07:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh.

[01:07:48] Sharmaine Howell: He's not, he's not happy. Let's just say that.

[01:07:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No, he's furious. Okay. Such great background for this because then, and this is the toughest tactic I think that is out there.

And it's the tactic that Pahoran takes. So the letter ends in, in Alma chapter 60, verse 36, Mernonite's letter to Pahoran ends. And here is Pahoran's response, Alma chapter 61. And Shar, you and your mom both pointed this out, but she's not here, so you're gonna have to speak for her. What was the tactic that he used that made you just go, Oh, this is a good tactic.

What was it?

[01:08:29] Sharmaine Howell: Um, humility. There's not like a specific verse that says he's being humble, but the whole way he responds just the tactic of humility in my mind. So cool.

[01:08:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right. That is exactly it. I think humility might be one of the most difficult tactics because it requires an awareness of self. It requires an awareness of being able to really correct yourself.

[01:08:52] Sharmaine Howell: Yep.

[01:08:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And maybe allow the Lord to correct you, which is not fun. By the way, his response is so beautiful and peaceful and all humility. There are a couple of verses that I marked and I want to know, are there verses that you mark that maybe help show his humility?

[01:09:09] Sharmaine Howell: Well, two and three, I think he starts out really.

Really great. And then, uh, we could start with those. Yeah. Um, he says, behold, in verse two, I, Pahoran, who am the chief governor of this land, do send these words unto Moroni, the chief captain over the army. Behold, I say unto you, Moroni, that I do not joy in your great afflictions, yea, it grieves my soul. Um, just, just starting out by saying, I hear you.

I get it. Not, not just starting out defensive and saying, you have no idea what I've been going through. You, you are wrong. You, you, you've been, you've wronged me. There's so much he could say to start this out.

[01:09:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: He could have been like, how dare you?

[01:09:56] Sharmaine Howell: Right. But Pahoran is just like, I am so sorry you feel that way.

And And it makes me sad and this actually helps me in parenting teenagers to take that step back and to say, Oh, my goodness, or, you know, even in relationships with anybody you're having any kind of conflict with and to say, I'm gonna take a step back and see what I can see their feeling in this situation.

And now I'm going to say, Oh my gosh, I can see what you're feeling and I'm sorry you're feeling that. That is so big of him to do that. Pahoran needs so much more cred than we give him. He's the man, right?

[01:10:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: He is. In fact, I'm calling him peaceful Pahoran. That's not the new title for him because look how he responds in verse nine.

This is a verse I put hearts all around in Alma 61 verse nine. And now in your epistle, you have censured me, but it matter if not. I am not angry, but do rejoice in the greatness of your heart. I, Pahoran, do not seek for power, save only to retain my judgment seat, that I may preserve the rights and the liberty of my people.

My soul standeth fast in that liberty, in the which God hath made us free. But just, I'm not angry. I just rejoice in the greatness of your heart. Like he sees that. Okay, maybe that's a new approach. I'm not mad that you kept pinging me. I rejoice in your earnestness.

[01:11:20] Sharmaine Howell: Oh, I love that. And like you censured, you censored me.

Like he could have been much worse, right? You totally just ragged me out and whatever. Like he could be so mad. But saying I'm not angry and then he's like Moroni. I love that. You want to fight for this cause so Passionately and so do I like he's reminding Moroni. We have the exact same goals And and like that's that's humility saying I see how you're you know Like somebody might come from some a place differently than you and they might approach something Differently and do it differently than you but you can say I'm not angry Oh, I can see how we have the same goals.

We don't have to be the same type of person, but we have the same goals, right?

[01:12:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes, absolutely. When I was thinking about this idea of humility, I looked up a talk from Elder Uchtdorf about humility. It's from the October, 2010 general conference called Pride and the Priesthood. And here's how he defines humility.

Shar, will you read that for us, please?

[01:12:23] Sharmaine Howell: Now, some suppose that humility is about beating ourselves up. Humility does not mean convincing ourselves that we are worthless, meaningless, or of little value, nor does it mean denying or withholding the talents God has given us. We don't discover humility by thinking less of ourselves.

We discover humility by thinking less about ourselves.

[01:12:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, that's good. Yeah. Tell me why. Apply that now. How is that a good tactic for the war that we are in?

[01:12:52] Sharmaine Howell: Pahoran is absolutely Not thinking at all about himself and, and about, you know, how you made me feel and you should be doing this for me, he's thinking, um, he's thinking of about Moroni and about the cause and about the people that they're fighting for and how that they can help them best.

Right. And I just love that. That's awesome.

[01:13:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love how you just said Pahoran is thinking about, and you several times you referenced all the things he's thinking about. Now one of the things that I think is so powerful about this discussion of Pahoran, peaceful Pahoran as we're going to call him, is because of this tactic of humility, he was able to feel something and we're focusing on this all summer long.

We're calling it our summer of joy, but it just fits perfectly in Alma chapter 61 verse 19. Shar, will you read that for us? And when she reads the word joy, circle it.

[01:13:46] Sharmaine Howell: And now Moroni, I do joy in receiving your epistle for I was somewhat worried concerning what we should do, whether it should be just in us to go against our brethren.

[01:13:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Um, even in just the worst of circumstances, which Pahoran lays out for Moroni, he talks to him like, here's why we couldn't respond. Here's why it took me so long. And then he just says, I, I did joy in receiving your epistle. None of this, even though it hurt my feelings, even though you're wrong. I mean, he just has this idea of joy.

And so I want us to think about this because I just wanted to know, Shar from you is what role can humility play in us counting at all joy when we're in the middle of trials and tribulations? Humility changes our perspective,

[01:14:30] Sharmaine Howell: right? It's not, it's not about putting us down. It's about changing our perspective of what we're going through.

And just like the quote from president Nelson, where he said, joy has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives. Yeah. Um, this is very evident in Pahoran's letter of, uh, obviously his circumstances were terrible. But his focus was on, was on, was on Moroni and was on helping the cause and, and fighting for liberty and, and their land and their people.

And so he was able to joy in knowing that Moroni wanted to do that still, and that they were on the same team and that they could do it together. And so his, his, um, focus was, was what was able to help him have humility. And so, I don't know. I know that we all have those times in our life where we are.

not being humble. I mean, you probably never do tell me, but no, never. No, no. Right. But we're the hardest tactic, right? Where pride creeps in and you just know that you need it your way or your way is the right way. Um, when we can focus on, on our savior, Jesus Christ, um, it really can humble our hearts. And when we can try to be like him and try to think about other people.

And, uh, just that humility alone will allow us to be happier in our life will give us joy. I mean, I think about all the times, mostly when I was single and in high school, when it was so self centered me, me, me, me, me, and it was all about me, you know, there was a lot of times where I wasn't that happy.

Right. And the minute I was able to turn my thoughts outward, which is what I really feel like humility is, is turning our thoughts outward to other people, um, and wanting to lift them up and wanting to find ways to help others. Then our joy is soulful. And that's exactly what Pahoran does, right? That's why he's able to have joy after he's just got ripped apart to shreds and threatened.

He's able to have joy because he's thinking of others.

[01:16:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I really appreciate how you connected all of this, Ben, back to that idea from elder Uchtdorf that truly having joy is not thinking less of ourselves, but thinking less about ourselves and that we're in, when we're in the thick of trials and tribulations, it is, that's the whole point is for us.

We, if we do focus on ourselves and what we're going through, but to just take a Pahoran breath and think, how can I think outward? And I like how your mom started in the very beginning. with that advice from her sister in law. Am I drawing towards the savior or am I distancing myself? And that, that right there is what's going to determine joy in your experience.

So wow, that was good. Thank you. Thanks, Shar.

[01:17:22] Sharmaine Howell: Thanks, Tammy. That was so great.

[01:17:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, I have some very exciting news because I didn't realize this at the time when we recorded with Wendy, that her mission was coming to a close. And so she's actually, she got home before this episode came out. So we were able to get back with her and ask her a few more questions.

But before we get into that, I just want Wendy to tell the coolest story about the internet when she was in South Africa. So cause she texted it to me. So Wendy, before I ask you this next question, just tell us the miracle of the internet.

[01:17:52] Wendy Stucki: Well, that particular day, um, we had not had internet at all in Africa and it's very typical not to have power in Zimbabwe.

Um, and that day we hadn't had power. It was on and off. And I thought, Oh, how's this ever going to happen? I don't even know how this ever get, how am I getting into a podcast when we have no power or any of that. My husband and I had prayed and we, to make a long story short, we just tried and tried and tried and, and it was able to connect.

We had, there was a short little window where we had power and internet. I thought, this is, this is a miracle. The whole time we were recording. It was a complete miracle to me because all the other homes around did not have it. And we were recording and then it just went out and, and, and Heavenly Father gave me a little, I love you.

And, but this was it. This is, this is all we're getting right now. Yeah. And I was super grateful, but also sad that it, that we weren't able to do the whole thing, but, um, it was a miracle. It was actually a real miracle.

[01:19:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It was such an answer to prayers because on our side here in America, Shar and I both were like, let's pray right now.

And so we can totally set a prayer together. And then as soon as we said, amen, we saw your face. And then you told us how you and your husband had just been praying that the internet and then you're, and then all of a sudden it connected and we were like, let's just go like, as we said at the very beginning of this episode.

And I just think it's so powerful and amazing because God's like, I'll give you some time. He knew you were going to be home, but we recorded this a while ago and I just think it's amazing how God's like, you can just finish it up when you get home, but I'll give you this time. Oh, he, he cares. He cares about just a little space of internet time.

[01:19:43] Wendy Stucki: He does. He loves each and every one of us and, and even our little tiny worries and our concerns. He loves us and he knows us. That's my testimony. Oh,

[01:19:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I agree. He really does. Grant you that blessing. So this is going to be fun. Okay. So here's the last question we didn't get to ask you and it is. How do you count at joy?

This is our summer of joy and we're encouraging all of our listeners to count at joy when they come against tribulation and trial and hardship. So I'm asking all my guests at the end of each episode, how have you in your lifetime counted at joy when it's been really hard?

[01:20:18] Wendy Stucki: So, um, because I am, you know, in my sixties, I have experienced some great hardship, um, against my will.

We all do, don't we? Um, but, uh, And, and it's been some really, we've had some really, really difficult things. I have a son that has had a traumatic brain injury and we've been betrayed in huge ways, um, by people that we love, my husband and I, and, um, and so many things that, that have gone unseen that have been really difficult.

And So, I can't say that I count it joy while I'm living it, but the way that I count it joy is knowing what I know in the Savior's teachings in the gospel and having faith in him and that his atonement is real and that it covers all of my pain and hurt and heartache and that someday like the stripling warriors and their The wounds that they have.

Um, you know, each one of them was wounded in battle. Um, he will heal our wounds and that's how I accounted joy, that someday all those wounds will be healed. And I'm so grateful for his aton sacrifice. That's how I came to Joy.

[01:21:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, you're the first guest to put it into such terms where you're hoping your wounds will be healed.

I don't know. For me, that was really real. Because we're all wounded, every one of us, and we might not see a complete healing until the next life. And, and that will be joy. Oh, that will be joy. So, wow. Thank you, Wendy. That was powerful. Thank you. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. It has. I really love you and your family.

Good people. Stucki household.

[01:22:12] Wendy Stucki: We're trying.

[01:22:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I know you are. That's why I love you guys. You're awesome.

[01:22:17] Wendy Stucki: Thanks, Tammy.

[01:22:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thanks. Well, what was your tactic? Or what tactics did you find? I would love to know what it is from these chapters that really stood out to you. So join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you've learned.

And then at the end of the week, we post a question that comes from this episode. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. And if you go there anyway, you're going to find the links to all the references we used as well as quotes that we used and a transcript for this whole discussion.

So go check it out. And by the way, friends. Those of you that live in Plano, Texas, Phoenix, Arizona, or St. George, Utah, I'm coming to see you. So go to magnifythegood. com and sign up for the event and come and listen to me and a bunch of my friends. We are going to have so much fun. We get to spend the whole day together and talk about Jesus.

I can't think of anything better. And listen, I might bring some cheese in my purse. The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living. It's written and hosted by me, Tami Uzelac Hall. And today are so fantastic. Study group participants were Wendy Stucki and Sharmaine Howell.

And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And remember you warriors that you are God's favorite.