The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's Christmas in August, or at least for this week, it's Christmas. You know the song, We Wish You a Merry Christmas? Well, think about the line and the chorus, good tidings we bring to you and your kin. What exactly are the good tidings in this song? Well, according to one scholar, I read that it refers to sharing the full gospel of Christ.
It's literally gospelizing that announces the complete message of the good news. Or in other words, the Lord's glad tidings Alma chapters 39 through 42 is good news. And as Alma calls it. Glad tidings. And today we get to study several important aspects of the gospel that make us all lad. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week.
And we really dig into the scriptures together. We're I'm your host, Tammy Usilak Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend, Nicole Smith from Dolores, Colorado, who I met at women's conference.
Hello, Nicole. Okay. Now, another awesome thing about our study group. Each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today we have two new friends. We have Laresa Campbell and Sherry Mills Johnson. Hi ladies.
[00:01:28] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Hello.
[00:01:29] Laresa Campbell: Hi, Timmy.
[00:01:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. How do you two know each other?
[00:01:33] Sherrie Mills Johnson: I birthed her.
[00:01:37] Laresa Campbell: Yes, I'm Laresa and this is my mom, Sherry. I live in Utah and she lives in South Carolina. So this is fun for us to be together visually. Yes. Yes.
[00:01:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And Laresa, give us a little bit of information about your mom and your family. Like how many children did she birth? And I'm saying that because I know and it's astounding.
[00:02:03] Laresa Campbell: Yes. I am the oldest of 10. I have eight sisters and one brother.
[00:02:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Where did the boy fall? Is he in the middle?
[00:02:13] Sherrie Mills Johnson: He's 10th. Yes. He was the tithing.
[00:02:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm impressed because my husband always jokes that's the gambler's mentality. You keep going till you get the, the one you want because we have all girls. And somebody said to him, are you going to keep trying for a boy? And he's like, no, because then I'll just have 10 girls. But you got the boy. Oh my goodness.
[00:02:38] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Yeah. We weren't trying for a boy. We set out to have 12. We had so many problems with the 10th that we never got beyond 10.
[00:02:48] Laresa Campbell: Yeah, it's been fun. And what's pretty incredible is I have six boys. So, I grew up with all those sisters. I'm the oldest and I have six boys. My youngest is, um, 19 and my oldest is 35.
In fact, my youngest is on a mission in Ogden, Utah.
[00:03:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's so cool. If anyone's listening and they can ever meet an Elder Campbell. Tell me you heard their mom on the podcast. Spanish speaking Spanish. Spanish speaking. Oh my word. How fun is that? Well, and something else that I just learned pretty cool about Sherry, the mother of 10, is that while she was having kids, she went back to school and got her bachelor's, master's, and PhD. Is that right?
[00:03:34] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Yes. I mean, I felt impressed that I needed to do it and so the Lord works those things out for you. I even look back on it and think how did I do that? But somehow you do it when it's the right thing to do.
[00:03:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my goodness. And then I think it's pretty cool because then Sherry actually ended up teaching at BYU. How many years did you teach religion?
[00:03:58] Sherrie Mills Johnson: I taught adjunct professor for 15 years in the ancient scripture department.
[00:04:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So Laresaand I decided we're just going to kind of ride her coattails this whole hour. Yes. No. We just have a lot of questions for Sherry.
[00:04:14] Laresa Campbell: That's what I've done my whole life. So I'm used to it.
[00:04:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I hope Sherry's ready to answer some questions cause we got questions for Sherry. This is going to be such a fun discussion and it's pretty heavy doctrine. So I hope you're ready, Sherry. Oh yes.
[00:04:28] Sherrie Mills Johnson: This is three or four of the most incredible chapters of the whole Book of Mormon. There power packed.
[00:04:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. Power packed with doctrine. Okay. Then let's do this. We're going to dig into these scriptures. So for those of you who want to know more about my guests, Go and check out their bios in our show notes, which are at LDS, living. com slash Sunday on Monday. Okay, everyone. Well, grab your scriptures and a little bit of just background.
Last week we read the words to Shiblon and Helaman from their father, Alma, the younger. And this week we get to read what he has to say to Corianton. So grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with. And we are going to dig into Alma chapters 39 through 42. All right, you two, here's my first question.
Tell me what the Holy Ghost taught you. Okay. As you read these four chapters,
[00:05:18] Laresa Campbell: as I was reading these chapters, so many things stuck out to me, but for some reason, when I read Alma 42, 13, it says, therefore, according to the justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about Only on condition of repentance of men in this probationary state.
I'm not going to read the whole verse, but for some reason that I was really touched when I read that part about repentance, because only on condition of repentance really struck me because that is part of the plan. That is what we need to do to receive exaltation and to get back to our heavenly father.
And sometimes I don't think of it as part of the plan. So that really hit it. It really struck me this week.
[00:06:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, I'm grateful you pointed that out because I, I've never noticed that either. And you put emphasis on the word only. So I circled it and it reminds me of in our family. We have a rule that you can't say always and never.
Cause they're too heavy. It's not true. I don't always do that or I never. And so we've tried to read, have our kids rethink that because it's such a heavy word, but right here I would include only in that always, never only, but only only that's such a heavy word for this only on conditions of repentance.
There is no other way. So I love that you pointed that out. The emphasis of that. That is cool. Thank you.
[00:06:58] Sherrie Mills Johnson: The, uh, verse that stuck out to me this time, it was kind of a renewal, like, it's something I'd thought about before I knew, but the, the Spiritist impressed me with this even more, and that's, uh, Alma 41 verse 5, and, uh, it says the one, he's talking there about restoration and, and how we'll be restored, and he's talking about how, and he says, uh, the one, Person will be raised to happiness according to his desires of happiness, or good according to his desires of good, and the other to evil according to his desires of evil.
For as he has desired to do evil all the day long, even so shall he have his reward of evil when the night cometh. And so it is on the other hand, if he hath repented of his sins and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so, he shall be rewarded unto righteousness. And that word desire, as you can see there, it's repeated, what, three, four, five, five times in those two verses.
And one of the things teaching and being in leadership positions in the church, many, many students and people, friends even, have come to me and said, I've just given up on getting to the celestial kingdom. It's too hard. There's too much. I can't do all those things that are required to work. And I'm just, I'm going to be happy with being in the terrestrial kingdom and what we learned there, there's nothing in those verses about work.
And of course, work is important, but desire determines our work. And we're going to be judged on our desires too, not. Not just our work and I, I don't think there's a human being that hasn't done something. The desire of the heart was to do good, to do something good and it backfires. It's misinterpreted by the person or, or something changes it.
But that doesn't matter because God's going to judge us on the desire we have on if we wanted to do good. Didn't turn out good. Our desire was there, and God knows that. And so if our desires are for righteousness, that's what's, that's what counts a lot. And so there's two reasons for that. Making sure our desires are right so that we're not hypocrites.
And then, like I say, sometimes our desire is there, and they're right, but Things go wrong. People misunderstand or misinterpret. But also our desires are what lead our actions. And so if we're concentrating on our desires and making our desires right, Our works will be right and, and we will go to the celestial kingdom if that's what we desire.
[00:10:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that. I wrote next to, as you were saying that I circled the desires and highlighted it and then I immediately was drawn to Alma 32, 27, which is the whole. Talk on faith because I was like, I have heard this. I have heard him say this word desire before Alma, the younger loves it because as he's talking about faith, he just says, if you can know more than desire, then let this desire work in you.
Like he's, that's how important it is to him. He's like, you just have to have a desire and this, let that work. And then I love how you said it affects the works that we do, even just desire a little bit to do good. Or I think for often, and many of us just desire to believe, like he says in Alma 32, if you're struggling.
[00:10:52] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Now that's 32, it too, it's, um, you know, it is about faith, obviously, but, but sometimes we misinterpret and think the seed that he's talking about is faith, but he makes it clear that the seed is words. And so if those words are desire, it, it goes back to that foundation of what we're. What words are going through our head?
Are they words of desire or, or not? And so this desire is a very, very foundational principle. Oh, I'm adding that to my scriptures.
[00:11:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What words do I desire? Oh my gosh, this is going to be great. This gospel is exciting. It's so exciting. I love, I love the scriptures. So in the next segment, then let's just dive into these words that Alma, the younger has for his son, Corianton and some really awesome glad tidings.
We'll do that next.
Segment 2
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[00:11:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We began this episode with Christmas in August, and we talked about the song. We wish you a Merry Christmas. Focusing specifically on the lyrics, good tidings we bring to you and your kin. Now, this comes from Luke chapter two, verse 10. So let's turn to Luke chapter two really quickly and let's read verse 10.
And Laresa, will you please read Luke chapter two, verse 10 for us?
[00:12:21] Laresa Campbell: And the angel said unto them, fear not, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
[00:12:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Now, Laresa, I want you to do this. Notice the footnote for the word good in your scriptures. Little a footnote a and look down below.
And what does it say? The word good means is gospel. Isn't that fun? Fear not. Behold, I bring unto you gospel tidings of great joy. Which shall be to all people. And he's speaking about the savior's birth. So we have these good tidings or gospel tidings. Now let's go back to Alma chapter 39, and we're going to look at verses 15 through 18.
And when you get to Alma chapter 39, next to those verses 15 through 18, let's put Luke two, just so we can remember that reference Luke two chapter 10. But in these verses, 15 through 18. It's going to set up what Alma the Younger has to say to his son, Corianton, and we'll each take a verse reading these.
And Sherry, we'll start with you and then Laresa, and then me.
[00:13:32] Sherrie Mills Johnson: So verse 15. Yes, please. And now, my son, I would say somewhat unto you concerning the coming of Christ. Behold, I say unto you that it is he that surely shall come to take away the sins of the world. Yea, he cometh to declare glad tidings of salvation unto his people.
[00:13:56] Laresa Campbell: And now, my son, this was the ministry unto which ye were called, to declare these glad tidings unto this people, to prepare their minds. Or rather, that salvation might come unto them, that they may prepare the minds of their children to hear the word at the time of his coming.
[00:14:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And now I will ease your mind somewhat on this subject.
Behold, you marvel why these things should be known so long beforehand? Behold, I say unto you, is not a soul at this time as precious unto God as a soul will be at the time of his coming?
[00:14:32] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Is it not as necessary that the plan of redemption should be made known unto this people as well as unto their children?
[00:14:41] Laresa Campbell: Is it not as easy at this time for the Lord to send his angel to declare these glad tidings? Unto us as unto our children or as after the time of his coming.
[00:14:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Now, a little bit of background to this and Sherry, I'd love to tell. I would love for you to tell us this, 'cause you said these are some of the most powerful chapters in the Book of Mormon.
Tell us a little bit about going into this. the whole story and what Alma the Younger has to say to Corianton. He wants him to know that what he's about to tell him will be glad tidings, good tidings, the gospel of Jesus Christ. But what happened to Corianton to have them have this conversation?
[00:15:23] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Uh, Corianton has gone on a mission with his brothers and with Alma and instead of performing his missionary duties, he went over into the land of Siron and went after the harlots.
Isabel and he, he, he sinned and because of that, the people that Alma and the others were teaching were led astray. They didn't believe in Alma's words because they saw his son going after evil. And so it created quite a problem. Affected the mission.
[00:16:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now both of you are mothers, and I'd love to know your opinion on this.
What strikes you with his approach to his son, because it could have gone many different ways when he found out about his son and yet he takes this. Let me tell you about the glad tidings, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Tell me about that.
[00:16:23] Laresa Campbell: I think I was as a mother, what I got out of his lesson was how loving and kind he was.
Sometimes our approach in motherhood is. I I told you so, or you shouldn't have done this, or one of anger, um, but I love his approach is very, here, let me tell you the glad tidings, let me tell you some information instead of repeating him.
[00:16:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Powerful.
[00:16:59] Sherrie Mills Johnson: One of the things I felt too is that as you read these chapters you get the feeling that Granton has been taught some incorrect things from, from his culture.
He's picked up these kind of things like, for instance, in Alma chapter 40, verse 15, Alma says to him, There are some that have understood that this state of happiness and that state of misery before the resurrection was the first resurrection. And that's incorrect. And then again, he says, uh, in verse 41, uh, 1, he says, some have arrested the scriptures and have gone astray.
And so what he seems to be dealing with is correcting incorrect teachings. But he doesn't do that in a real punitive way. He doesn't, Like that first one I read, there are some that have understood it this way, and so even in his correcting, he doesn't come down harshly or punitively. He's very gentle, even in the correction.
And as Laresasaid, that's, that's this love being brought about. He's teaching in, with love, and in love, instead of in negative ways, instead of calling people out or putting them down or, son, you've been taught this wrong, uh, he just, very gently. Points out that there's been some misconception, but, but this is how it is.
[00:18:42] Laresa Campbell: It reminds me of when my third son came home from school one time, and he was in second or third grade. And, uh, he had done something very bad at school. In fact, I think the teacher had already told me about it, but he felt so, so guilty and was so, it was so hard for him to face me. But I remember just praying really hard for the words to know to say to him and, um, we just knelt together in a prayer, I remember.
And I said, your heavenly father loves you. And these are the things that you can repent of. And move on. And I remember when he served his mission, um, he wrote me a letter and said how that story feel, um, stuck with him all of these years and how I, uh, chose to sit and just pray with them and teach them about repentance.
And I thought I never would have been able to do that if I didn't. Pray myself or listen with love and understanding of what the Holy Ghost wanted me to teach him.
[00:19:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, what a wonderful story. Could there be anything more glad than just the approach he takes with his son? It is mirroring how heavenly father is with us.
So let's do this really quick. We're going to do a glad tidings scripture chain. And we just have a few. Now, if anyone wants something fun to do during sacrament or anything, just look up glad tidings and all the, there's so many references to this in scripture, but I've just chosen four of my favorite glad tidings scriptures.
And so here we go somewhere to the outside of versus 15 through 19 label fees. And we're going to go with doctrine and covenants section 76 verse 40. Laresa, we read that for us.
[00:20:35] Laresa Campbell: Yes. Doctrine and covenants section 76 40. And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of heavens bore record unto us.
[00:20:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. And then you get this great revelation, but I love how it comes from the heavens. Sherry, will you please read section 79 verse one in the doctrine and covenants?
[00:20:59] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Verily I say unto you that it is my will that my servant Jared Carter should go again into the eastern countries from place to place and from city to city in the power of the ordination wherewith he has been ordained, proclaiming glad tidings of great joy, even the everlasting gospel.
[00:21:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, powerful words there. I love that. Okay. The next one, then go to Helaman chapter 13, verse seven, and it says, and behold, an angel of the Lord hath declared it unto me, and he did bring glad tidings to my soul. And behold, I was sent unto you to declare it unto you also that ye might have glad tidings, but behold, you would not receive me.
We'll get to that a little bit later, but there is this idea of these angels bringing glad tidings. And then the last reference, let's go to Isaiah chapter 52. Verse seven. And Laresa, will you read that when you get there?
[00:21:59] Laresa Campbell: How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publishes salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth.
[00:22:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. This beautiful idea of the gospel of Jesus Christ is good. It is glad. And there are so many cool things that we get to talk about. And so in the next segment, I asked my guests to look for what makes them glad when it comes to Alma 40 through 42. What are some of the things that I'm a younger said to a son that make you glad?
We'll do that next.
Segment 3
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[00:22:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, ladies. Tell me. What made you glad? And if you could give us the scripture reference so we can mark them, I would love it.
[00:22:53] Sherrie Mills Johnson: One that really always brings me great joy is Alma 42. 10. Therefore, as they had become carnal, sensual, and devilish by nature, this probationary state became a state for them to prepare.
It became a preparatory state. Um, there again in teaching, I would say to a class very often, what is the purpose of life? And every time, there would be various answers, but the, uh, to be tried and tested would come up. Well, I personally feel that if in the Council of Heaven, God had said to me, I'm going to send you down to earth to be tried and tested, I wouldn't have come.
I did not go to university to be tried and tested. I went to university to learn, to, to, to grow and, uh, trying, trials and testing. Matter of fact, the word probationary does mean a period of testing and trial. And so it's obviously part of our Earth life, but I don't believe it's the purpose of Earth life.
The purpose of Earth life. Is to prepare to become like God, and this, when I think of life like that, it changes everything I do. Uh, for example, when I had little children, and, and I'm old, so I was before, My first children were before, uh, disposable diapers, and I had to wring out diapers in a toilet. Uh, it's gross.
It's terrible. I did not like it. Uh, matter of fact, I'd ratch every time I did it, and twice I even vomited. I just, I do not, I did not like it. Well, one day I decided that I needed to change my state of mind of what I was thinking about. I was, I was dwelling on the awfulness of the task. Well, when I changed my mind and began to think, okay, I'm preparing to be like God and God serves.
And so when I'm rinsing out this diaper, I am doing something for this child. That this baby cannot do for himself. That's the definition of a savior to do for someone else, what they cannot do for themselves. And so as I began rinsing the diapers out then, instead of concentrating on the stink and the awfulness of the task, I began to concentrate on the fact that I had this great privilege to serve these precious little babies.
And it changed everything. It changed the emotions within me, the energy that I was giving off, everything. And even later, like, Just a few years ago, I realized that one of the things I was doing is I'd get up in the morning and my mother taught me to always make my bed. And so I'd get up in the morning and I'd make the bed, but I hated that task.
It was a waste of time, right? You're just going to get in and again at night. Why make the bed? And, and one day I realized that starting my day with those negative feelings. Was affecting the rest of my day. And so I began to think, okay, I've got to change this. So the next morning when I got up, I looked at that bed and I thought.
God is all about bringing order, and I have this moment here to practice bringing about order. And so I began to think about that, and it, it, it changes the whole rest of the day. It changes everything. And so those are kind of mundane, silly things. But, when we go through life, Approaching everything as, as this is my chance practice to prepare and so that, uh, This, this is a state of life, and I know that's what God said to me so that I came down here.
I'm going to send you down there to give you time and space and a place so that you can become like me. It's preparation. And I, I love that verse because of that.
[00:27:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that verse now. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. And it says it right there for them to prepare. It became a preparatory state. Oh, how have I never seen that?
I'm smiling so hard right now. There's no doubt I'm feeling the spirit, that feeling of love and joy. This is so cool. I, uh, thank you for sharing that, especially the idea of the diapers and the making the bed and just all the things that we're doing right now. I've never considered the mundaneness of it is actually preparing us.
That is glad. That is a glad tiding. Thank you, Sherry. I loved it. What about you, Laresa?
[00:28:09] Laresa Campbell: I love it. And I just want to piggyback right on my mom. I have verse 11 marked. And now remember my son, if it were not for the plan of redemption, laying it aside, as soon as they were dead, their souls were miserable being cut off from the presence of the Lord.
I underlined plan of redemption is glad tidings. And in my notes, in my scripture study, I wrote the word plan doesn't appear in the King James version of the Bible. That appears 51 times in the Book of Mormon. . I don't know where I got the source, but it's right here in my notes and my scriptures.
But Alma uses several terms to describe the plan, plan of redemption, plan of salvation, the plan of mercy, the plan of happiness. And I was like, those are all glad tidings. Every single one of them. He got the plan.
[00:29:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. I'm writing. I'm writing. I like that glad tidings because he has a plan. Yeah.
Don't you love that? You want a leader that has a plan. Yeah. I want to know that the person in charge and that sometimes I think he's not like just throwing things in last minute, like, Oh wait, we forgot about that. Okay, quick. Make this rule. Like, no, it's always worked. It's foolproof. It is an absolute sure plan.
And the thing that made me glad, I'm so grateful you brought up this plan of redemption because then I'll piggyback on you in verse 15. How many times I highlighted plan of mercy. It's twice in that verse. I love the idea that it's called a plan of mercy because we've talked about the word mercy. It's one of my favorite Hebrew words because it comes from the word for womb and this idea of a plan of mercy and mercy being the womb of a woman.
But just that when you think about everything that happens in the womb, And how it's a place of protection. It's a place where you're nourished. It's a place where the per, the woman will do everything she can to make sure that baby is safe and comes to this earth alive and, and survives and then thrives.
There's so many things wrapped up in that word womb and mercy that then when I think of the plan of mercy. Oh, now that's a plan I can get behind. And what
[00:30:30] Laresa Campbell: I love too is I'm just learning to trust the spirit and trust that it will work because I have all these notes written down and I'm like, I'm not even referring to right now.
Isn't that cool? Trusting the spirit
[00:30:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: today. Oh, the spirit is here for sure. Well, then let's continue then with this theme and trusting the spirit and seeing where our thoughts take us. Because in the next segment, we're going to discuss a very key aspect of this gladness and it came by way of Cranton's questions and what Alma did as a father.
We'll do that next.
Segment 4
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[00:31:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are going to go to Alma chapter 40 verse one. And we're going to mark something because we're going to see this in, uh, Alma chapter 40, 41 and 42. And it's going to be the springboard for all of our discussions. So we're going to want to notice this. So in Alma chapter 40, verse one, It says, now, my son, here is somewhat more.
I would say unto thee for I perceive highlight that I perceive, talk about following the impressions of the Holy ghost. That is exactly what that word means there. It means to receive impressions and then to know. And so the spirit is telling him as the father. Hey, your son, he's got some questions. So he says, I perceive, now we're going to see that in chapter 41 and 42.
We'll market each time, but market right there. I perceive, now here's what he perceives that thy mind is worried concerning the resurrection of the dead. So, that's the topic for Chapter 40. I perceive you have questions. Now, I just want to know from the two of you, why do you think Corianton would even be worried about this aspect of the gospel?
[00:32:20] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Well, like I said before, um, I think that he's been taught some incorrect things and he has incorrect ideas of what resurrection is. And as you look through Chapter, uh, 40, I'm gonna You have to be careful in chapter 40 because he's talking about two different things. He's talking about resurrection, but he's also talking about the spirit world.
And so you kind of get the feeling that Corianton was confused, was confusing the two. And what Alma is doing in chapter 40 is he talks about Well, in verse 3, he says, I have inquired diligently of God that I might know about this resurrection. And then he also says, I also wanted to know about the space.
There's got to be a space between death and resurrection. And so he's correcting those things. And so, like, starting verse 6, he's talking about the spirit world. And he talks about it down to 12, and then he starts talking about, um, Uh, uh, resurrection as we know it, being resurrected from the dead. And he, he, he says that there's been some things misunderstood and, but then he stresses, it doesn't matter to me.
I, it doesn't matter. It, I don't, the details don't really matter of when this is going to happen and how it's going to happen. What matters is that it will happen, that there will be a resurrection and that the righteous will be resurrected. But it, he gives us a lot of information there about what the spirit world is like, and then a lot of interpretation.
Formation about resurrection, and he's, he's correcting Corianton's misunderstandings and helping him to understand this, uh, this gospel and what it is. And, and as it goes through all of these chapters, that seems to be what's happening. Even in Joseph Smith's time, the people converted came from a Protestant background.
And, uh, like in 1741, Jonathan Edwards gave a famous speech, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. And a lot of people have this misconception that God is this punitive, awful, you know, He's, He's just looking out, waiting for us to make mistakes so He can rain down justice and such. And through all of these chapters, what Alma is doing is helping Corianton to see how he has misinterpreted God and that, like, like, for example, um, if you believe in, in this God who is an angry God, then punishment is, it's punitive and it's, it's inflicting pain.
It's, it's doing this, but God is a God of love. In 1 John chapter 4, John tells us twice, God is love in verse 8 and verse 16. And so when you look at what Alma is teaching here through this lens of love, the lens that God deals with us through punishment, To God means, this is how I'm going to correct you so that you're whole and holy and righteous.
This is correction, and judgment is, uh, here again, it's a way of ascertaining what is needed in order to make things good. And that's, remember King Benjamin taught that your judgment, you look at this poor person and you can make the judgment, Oh, they brought it on themselves, this is terrible, like I don't need to do anything because they caused their own pain.
But a judgment is, is saying, No, They're lacking this, and so what can I do to help them? And in chapter 42, we're going to see that he talks about justice 19 times, and sometimes we tend to think justice is the bad thing, and mercy is the good thing. But justice, through the eyes of God, is also love. It's a way of Determining, it's, it's looking at someone and saying, okay, this is what's necessary to make this situation or this circumstance or this person good.
And so it's as much an act of love as mercy is. And the law then is, here again, we sometimes think that law is this heavy burden that we have to live under. But law is what you need in order to be whole, what you need to do in order to be holy or just. And, uh, repentance to simply, here again, repentance is not a punishment, repentance is just change.
And so all through these chapters, what Alma is doing is, uh, teaching Corianton. about God's love and how all of these things that Corianton has misinterpreted are, are God lovingness.
[00:38:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I have to tell you, I'm super thankful for the way that you have couched all of these chapters by telling us a lot of it has to do with Corianton misunderstanding or not having a full truth or maybe being taught because I am right now having this absolute aha testimony building moment of the come follow me program because God needs his people to know things so that when children come to us and say, What do we need to know?
Or they have questions about gospel. I mean, I've had that experience where my, my daughters have come to me and said, this is what so and so taught me is, do we believe this? And I was able to say, Oh my gosh, we don't actually, let me show you all the verses of scripture that prove it differently. That is an awesome moment because there is parents you can perceive when your children need something or needs hurt and help.
In fact, Laresa, I'd love to know, have you ever come to your mom and asked her gospel questions?
[00:38:59] Laresa Campbell: All the time. Why do you come to your mom? Because she has so much knowledge and understanding, and I feel, as you have heard today, she's very well versed in the scriptures, and so I trust her knowledge, and I trust her understanding of the gospel. And she's, she's read it. She's been in it. And I love that.
[00:39:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And how has that affected you as a parent? Have you been able to use anything she's taught you?
[00:39:34] Laresa Campbell: I try. I, um, have been able to Share with my kids lessons that I've learned from my mom and also what my mom has taught me is to rely on my own testimony.
I remember when I was little and different kids would go up and have their parents say their testimonies in their ear. I remember my mom teaching me that I needed to learn for myself my own testimony and be able to say it myself. And that's one thing I instilled in my kids is, Hey, I'm here if you have questions and I can help you along the way, but I want you to point out for yourself.
I want you to pray to know, um, the things that you're learning or the questions you have. Certainly we all love questions and my mom certainly loves to answer our questions. That's one thing I love about my mom, but I think I needed to find out things for myself and I'm glad my mom definitely instilled that in me.
[00:40:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Well, isn't that so awesome? Because as Sherry pointed out, let's go back and mark Alma chapter 40 verse three, when Alma says, I have inquired diligently of God that I might know that is concerning the resurrection because he's saying to his son, look, I know you have questions about this. I did too.
And here's how I got my answers. That is such a great model for every one of us. If you have a question. Ask God, search diligently. And I love this idea where we talked about the word desire. What words do you desire? What sources are you going to? And then here he shares, let me tell you what I found out.
And I, I also love that he's like, and I don't really know it. I don't actually know everything. There's some stuff I just can't even worry about, but here's what I do know. And then he hits us hard with some beautiful truths found in Alma chapter 40. And so what I want to know from each of you is give me one verse you marked in Alma 40.
That would be one of the beautiful truths he taught his son.
[00:41:41] Laresa Campbell: I'll go first. I love Alma 40, 11 and 12, but I'll just read verse 12. And then it shall come to pass that the spirit of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness. Uh, which is all paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all their cares and sorrow.
[00:42:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Can we just all take a breath right there? Yes.
[00:42:09] Laresa Campbell: Yes. Why did you mark that? Because I want that state of happiness. I thought, Oh my gosh, it's called paradise. I would just love to live in peace. I feel like my life is. Not very peaceful sometimes, and oh, where I can just rest from all my trouble. That is great. That is really great.
[00:42:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I marked those. I wrote happiness, paradise, peace, and rest.
Yes. Please sign me up. Yes. So great. Exactly. What about you, Sherry? When it comes to the resurrection, what did you mark?
[00:42:52] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Well, um, it was verse 11 again, what Laresais talking about, but it's the state of the soul between death and the resurrection. And resurrection means to re again and surge. To resurge, what impressed me is that this resurgence is all of these things, the happiness, all of these negative things that we experience in life, grief and sorrow and pain and other people hurting us and all those kind of things.
That's not going to be part of resurging, again, going back to where I started with talking about this time of preparation. When, uh, focusing on that, there is going to be a time of resurgence, and if we're focusing on that, it's like looking at the light at the end of the tunnel, and just moving forward, and, and, and trusting in the fact that We're going to resurge with only the good.
[00:44:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like that. Resurge with only the good. And how fun to read these chapters now thinking, what is this father correcting? So in the next segment, then we're going to dive into another topic. About what Corianton believed and then what his father corrected. We'll do that next.
Segment 5
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[00:44:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. We are in Alma chapter 41 and we just have to look at verse one and we're going to mark the perception word. I perceive. Laresa, will you read verse one for us? Alma 41 verse one.
[00:44:41] Laresa Campbell: And now my son, I have somewhat. To say concerning the restoration of which have been spoken. For behold, some have wrested the scriptures, and have gone far astray because of this thing.
And I perceive that thy mind has been worried also concerning this thing. But behold, I will explain it unto thee.
[00:45:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. There it is. Highlight I perceive. He's worried about this thing, and it's the plan of restoration in verse two. I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God.
And then it says, for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Okay, let's just stop right there. The law of restoration, what in the world? Do we believe in that? Like, Sherry, teach us, what is the law, what is this talking about? Because I think there's some people that are like, uh, yeah, you, you're perceiving that for me too.
My mind's concerned about this law of restoration. So what are we talking about here?
[00:45:42] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Well, the word restoration never appears in the Bible. It's not any place in there at the word restore is used a few times but it's used to like, well if, if you do this to your neighbor, then you should restore it's never talking about restoration and out.
plan of salvation context. It's always just restore the animals or restore this or restore that. But this chapter 41 and 42 are amazing. And one of the most crucial doctrines of the gospel of Jesus Christ, this good news. And when you read these three chapters that we're looking at today with Doctrine and Covenants 76, 84, and 88.
Uh, it enhances what Alma is teaching here, but they're incredible. But what it is, is if you look at verse 3, it says, And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works. Now remember, All of these words, judged, and punishment, and justice, and all of that, look at them through this lens of God's love.
So, men should be judged according to their works, and if their works were good in this life, and their desires of their hearts were good, that they should also at the last day be restored unto that which is good. And this is a really important lesson. Restoration means to be put back to what was before.
So again, re, again, and stored. And in Doctrine and Covenants section 88 verse 28, it explains this, um, very concisely. And it's talking, in 88, it goes through all of the kingdoms, uh, telestial, terrestrial, and telestial, and explains what we need to do. To get there, but, but how we're starting that now by the desires and the things we're thinking and the things we're doing.
And in Doctrine and Covenants 88, 28, it says, they who are of a celestial spirit, meaning what they've done in this life to, to think and desire spiritual things, uh, celestial things to think celestially. Okay. They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body. Even you shall receive your bodies and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
Quickened means made alive. So, uh, verse 29, ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive the same even if And then it goes on to say, if you're quickened by terrestrial, then you're going to receive that back. If you're quickened or made alive by telestial, uh, things, then that's the body you're going to receive back.
And so, uh, what Alma is explaining to Corianton here is, and here again, he uses that word desire. The very thing you're doing right now, the very thing you're desiring right now, the very works you're doing right now, Are making physical changes in your body, in the very cells of your body is what doctrine and covenants 88 is teaching us.
And so when we are restored at the resurrection, we're going to get back that body we made by those desires, by those choices. And it will either be a celestial body or a terrestrial body or a telestial body. It's not going to suddenly be something new and different. It's going to be what we made. What we did and, and it's a restoration.
[00:49:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, how awesome then, because if you're listening to this and you're thinking about loved ones or people that you know who are making themselves or desiring things that are not celestial, it kind of makes you a little bit like, Oh, it seems a little depressing. And I don't think that's the whole point and goal of this law of restoration because the law of restoration, the law of happiness is filled with hope.
And so as he's teaching this in Alma 41, he gives us the verse of hope in verse six. Laresa, will you read that for us? Actually, verse six and seven, we need both of those.
[00:50:31] Laresa Campbell: Okay. And so it is on the other hand, if he has repented of his sins and desired righteousness until the end of his days, Even so, he shall be rewarded unto righteousness.
These are they that are redeemed of the Lord. Yea, these are they that are taken out, that are delivered from that endless night of darkness. And thus they stand or fall, for behold, they are their own judges. Whether to do good or do evil.
[00:51:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. That part. These are they. I highlighted that and drew a line up in verse six where it says, if he hath repented, the ones who repented, these are they who are redeemed of the Lord.
And lest you get caught up on the idea that it says until the end of his days, there is Well, our earthly brain, we know what days means. It just means these days. But I love how, again, Alma even says, when he talks about time, he says in Alma chapter 40 verse eight, he's like, I don't know about time. And it doesn't matter because there's one day with God and time only is measured unto men.
Like, let's be clear about that. So we measure a day in our own day, but God's like. The end of our days, we have clear until the end of the millennium we have in the next life. We know we have learned that Joseph Smith has taught. No one's been cut off. So there is so much hope in verses six and seven. And how about that?
They are their own judges. Tell me about that because that, for that line right there has forever. ever struck me.
[00:52:08] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Yeah, it's, it's going back to being restored to this body. Your body's going to show what you are. You're going to judge yourself. It's not like you're going to stand in front of this punitive judge and he's going to lay down the law.
Uh, you are going to do it yourself. And this, as Alma taught before here, this, this spirit world time. When you were talking about, we watch people who are doing things wrong, and like Corianton, uh, sometimes they're doing them wrong because they've got wrong ideas. They've been taught wrong things. And this restoration is not necessarily just the moment we die and restored to that, but there's that, and that's what it's about.
period of time in the, uh, spirit world where there, I believe there's still be some growth and still be some changing. Not every Corianton has an alma for a father. that is able to correct him then. As we know, Coriathan goes on and performs more missionary work. He changes. But there are people who die without that, and we, or, or just never get the chance to be corrected, to be changed.
And that will come into play. God knows that, and that's part of His love. So there will be that time that even a lot of those that we might have given up hope on here in this life, are still going to be able to change because they were acting on the best information they had at the time.
[00:53:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes.
[00:53:47] Sherrie Mills Johnson: And God knows that.
And so as they get new information, as they are corrected, as they change, if their desires are, Oh wow, I had it wrong. I desire to have it right now. That's still going to come into play as part of our restoration. And so there's an enormous amount of hope in that. It's a gospel of love, but it's an incredible gospel of hope.
[00:54:15] Laresa Campbell: I just have a sweet testimony right now of what A loving Heavenly Father we have. Just like you said, there is hope, but there is hope for everyone. So when I view, when I view people or when I talk to them, it changes my way of thinking too. The way I talk to people, the way I perceive people and talk to them, you don't know.
You don't know what they're thinking, like you said, or what they've been taught, or what knowledge they have or don't have. So it makes me think a little bit, definitely, too.
[00:55:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Definitely. And I was reminded of Elder Kieran's talk from General Conference. Because when he talked about how the, our father is in relentless pursuit of us, that's our favorite line from his talk, relentless pursuit, but go back and read that talk.
I'm going to encourage everybody to read it this week because it incorporates everything we've talked about. Yes, he is in relentless pursuit. And then Elder Kieran goes on to talk about the repentance process and how important it is to do everything we've just done, repented the desires of our hearts.
He just beautifully, it's almost like he read this and wrote his talk because it is a modern day version of Alma the Younger to his son, Corianton. And he used the most loving terms. And he also uses accountability in his talk. It is beautiful. So good. So yes. Go back and read that.
[00:55:49] Laresa Campbell: And he had a wonderful accent to make it even more lovely.
[00:55:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. And I think when you read it, you'll come away with a testimony like Laurie says, where you shared with us just how much he loves us and how he wants us to be restored to goodness and that there is that possibility. Absolutely. So thank you. What a powerful doctrine, the law of restoration, and it's not something to be afraid of.
[00:56:14] Sherrie Mills Johnson: It is beautiful, beautiful love. That last verse there in that chapter two, for that which ye do send out, that shall return unto you again and be restored. And so there again is where, uh, you see parents sometimes their children are strained and And they, instead of Just loving and being kind, they, they try to be punitive themselves, and that doesn't work.
It's not all that hard, it's not that difficult, uh, we tend to complicate this gospel too much, and think it's too hard, it's too, it isn't. It's desire to do good, and good will come back to you. That's, it's that simple.
[00:57:05] Laresa Campbell: And can I just share with you what I have in my notes from Alma 41 verses 14 and 15? It says, this is my notes.
Alma's promise is that things will come back to us somehow, someday. He is taking the golden rule a step further. What you choose to do unto others will ultimately be done unto you. And I, yeah, that was from some Book of Mormon study notes that I wrote down. And I thought, wow, I've always loved the golden rule to take it a step further.
That's what I mean. When I said I look at people differently, I treat people differently.
[00:57:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and going back to this idea where we learned that all of this life is preparatory, we're preparing to become like our heavenly parents. I think verse 14 sums up our heavenly parents perfectly. It says, therefore, my son, see that you are merciful.
And to your brethren that you deal justly, that you judge righteously, that you do good continually. I mean, right there, that is the Godhead. And so if we can be like that, we are preparing to become like that. It says, and then if you do all these things, then you shall receive your reward. Yeah. You should have mercy restored unto you again.
Justice restored. And just like you said, Larry said, it'll all come back to us. The golden rule that the golden rule is then to become like our heavenly parents. It's, it's so awesome how this. I'll connect. So great, great discussion about the law of restoration, but we're not done. There's still one more thing that Alma perceives that his son Corianton has questions about.
And we'll do that next.
Segment 6
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[00:58:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are going to mark the last thing that Alma perceives that his son has a question about. So let's go to Alma 42 and we're going to read verse one. And Laresa, will you read that for us, please?
[00:59:06] Laresa Campbell: Yes. Alma 42, verse 1, And now, my son, I perceive there is somewhat more which doth worry your mind, which ye cannot understand, which is concerning the justice of God in the punishment of the world.
The sinner or ye do try to suppose that it is injustice, that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery.
[00:59:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Can one of you just sum up in modern day terms what his worry is in verse one,
[00:59:36] Sherrie Mills Johnson: that wicked people shouldn't be punished? It's, it's, again, a misconception. Why should these people be punished?
[00:59:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. In fact, with injustice, I replaced it with unfair. You do suppose that it's unfair that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery. Like that's not fair. Isn't that such a classic statement we hear in the world? Satan wants us to think that how can God be a just and loving God? He, if he loves all of his children, then they should all be loved into his presence, right?
And no, no actions at all. So in Alma 42, the answer. And we've talked a lot about this. So look back at 42. You should have lots of things marked in here, but I think the answer is so powerful because it comes in the form of a Hebraism. Okay. I have another one for you. Highlight verses 22 and 23. And to the outside of these verses, I want you to write, Climactic expression.
This is a Hebraism called a climactic expression in the book preserved in translation by Don Perry. He gives a little bit of background about what this means. So in 1898, a biblical scholar by the name of E. W. Bollinger, he identified this really cool, significant figure of speech in the Bible, and he labels it.
The climax or the Greek word for climax is a ladder. So it just builds, it builds up, up, up, up a climactic form. It contains words of expression that are duplicated as the writer moves from one phrase or clause to the next. So it just builds on itself. And that's what's happening here in verses 22 and 23 is Alma takes this chance now to say, okay, I know you have these questions, but let me just do this.
And it's so awesome. So we're going to read these two verses and then we're going to go through and mark how it builds. And it noticed the words that it repeats. Okay. We're going to start in verse 22. Here we go. But there is a law given and a punishment affixed. And a repentance granted, which repentance mercy claimeth, otherwise justice claimeth the creature and executed the law, and the law inflicted the punishment.
If not so, the works of justice would be destroyed and God would cease to be God. But God ceases not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent. Mercy cometh because of the atonement. And the atonement bring it to pass the resurrection of the dead and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God, and thus they are restored into his presence to be judged according to their works, according to the law of justice.
Now in there, here's what I've underlined. Go back to the very beginning, and here's the word you wanna underline, underline repentance, and then it again, repentance. Then we're going to underline justice. And then we're going to underline law and law to both right there and then justice again after those laws.
And then God is twice. And then in verse 23, we're going to underline mercy. That said twice, atonement said twice, resurrection said twice, and then presence said twice. Now, here's what Don Perry says about this verse. He says this passage emphasizes the principle of causation. Justice executes the law. The law inflicts the punishment.
God brings about the atonement. The atonement brings about mercy. That also brings about the resurrection. Then in the climactic ending of this passage, Alma testifies that because of the atonement We will be able to return to God's presence. That is what Alma wants his son to ultimately know. Now tell me, Laresa, why are you smiling and shaking your head?
[01:03:25] Laresa Campbell: Well, I just can't imagine. Um, anything that, I mean, if it wasn't that, I love the plan that we get to return to him and be in the presence of God. That is just like the restoring thing that just makes me so happy.
[01:03:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like that. It doesn't, it is right there. That's the glad tidings makes you so happy. Tell me your thoughts, Sherry.
[01:03:58] Sherrie Mills Johnson: There again, Alma has so beautifully summed up this gospel and what it means. And here again, I mean, that word justice or a form of it, like just or justice or injustice is used 19 times in this chapter.
[01:04:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow.
[01:04:17] Sherrie Mills Johnson: And it's just here again, in those two verses you've just shared with us, and in that climatic expression, it's, it's love.
It all, you know, all truth is circumscribed in one great whole, and that great whole is love. And that's what, what he's so beautifully and artistically even, uh, articulated here in these two verses. And you've explained it so beautifully, that this Hebraism, and it is. It's beautiful. And it's what this gospel is all about.
[01:05:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And isn't it interesting that then he ends in verse 27, and this is kind of how I parent when he says, but none are compelled to come. That is such a classic passage. Trick that I use with my kids . When I have an idea of something I want them to do, I will start it by saying, listen, you don't have to do this.
I'm just throwing this out there. You can do whatever you want, but here's just a thought or an idea I have. And then that's how I couch it. Because I don't want them to say, here's what I'm telling you to do. I'm just gonna let you choose. And I think that's how God's like, listen, none are compelled to come.
I'm just gonna tell you what I think might work. And if it does, you're going to be super happy. Cause in my mind, I know if they do what I tell them to do, life's going to be way better for them. And I would say nine times out of 10, they usually fall for my trick. And I wonder if that's the same for me with heavenly father, we're falling for that trick. Cause it's really good. None are compelled to come, but here we go back to this word. Sherry, will you read verse 28?
[01:05:57] Sherrie Mills Johnson: If he has desired to do evil and has not repented in his days, behold, evil shall be done unto him according to the restoration of God.
[01:06:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That desire word, but you know, if that's what you desire, okay, just no, probably won't work out.
And then I love how he hits us as a father with verse 30. Laresa, read verse 30 for us.
[01:06:21] Laresa Campbell: Verse 30. Oh my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins by denying the justice of God, but do let the justice of God and His mercy and His long suffering have full sway in your heart, and let it bring you down to the dust in humility.
[01:06:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. I want to know from you, Sherry, you said that the word justice appears so many times in this chapter, and I've noticed how often the word justice also occurs with the word mercy. And so I'm just curious because if that's how loving heavenly parents work, has there been a time where you as a parent maybe sort of leaned into more mercy than justice?
I don't know. I'm just having this thought like, why do those two words appear together?
[01:07:09] Sherrie Mills Johnson: Because they're two forms of this love. There are two ways that God shows us love, and, uh, the justice is in determining what is needed, but the mercy is, is when you're doing it wrong or when something's wrong, God is, is going to, to make it up to you.
There's going to be, uh, compensation. There's going to be, uh, there are a lot of things we can't. Um, do, and we can't change and, and so his mercy will take care of those. So the justice comes into play, but also the mercy in love, what you were talking about with your children too. I had a, one of my daughters was a very, very picky eater.
And it's clear back when she was in kindergarten and she had afternoon kindergarten and we'd been late getting someplace and, or getting home to get her ready for kindergarten. And so I just hurried and made a tuna fish sandwich and told her hurry and eat it so she could go to school. Then I went in to put the baby down to bed.
And all of a sudden this daughter, the kindergartner came in running into me and said, I've eaten my sandwich. Can I have my ice cream now? And I knew, first of all, it had been too fast for her to have eaten it, but I also just, just knew that, you know, a mother perceives and so, uh, I knew she hadn't really eaten the sandwich.
And normally as a mother, I would just pull out this lecture and lecture what she should do. But. Instead, I remembered what it says in, uh, Moroni 7, that we're all blessed with this light of Christ, which is the conscience, and that I should rely on that instead of trying to lecture. And so I just looked at her and I said, uh, uh, are you sure you ate the sandwich?
And she said, yes. And I said, well, you know what's right. And you know what's wrong. And I left it at that. Well, normally, if I had lectured her, she would have laid down and had a tantrum and tried to get out of it that way. But she just stared at me, and I was a little baffled, but she just turned around and backed down to the kitchen.
Well, I was curious to know What was happening. And so I walked back down and she was sitting Indian style on the floor with a garbage can in, in her legs there. She was eating that sandwich out of the garbage can. Now I know that that is not healthy and that she shouldn't have been eating the sandwich out of the garbage can, but her conscience, because I had left it up with her, her conscience had led her to do what was right.
Without, without me lecturing, but there's sometimes we make mistakes and we can't get the sandwich back out of the garbage. So God's mercy comes into play then, and he, he does it for us. He's done it for us. That's the atonement all at work. In our lives.
[01:10:32] Laresa Campbell: And also I think about God's mercy when things are out of our control . And so many things like that happen into our lives that I didn't want to, to happen to me or it, it just happens because of either other people's choices or things that go wrong. And I'm so grateful for God's mercy and love that he shows to me. because, he knows,
[01:11:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: and I do believe from your stories and your experiences that God will always lean into mercy.
I think that's what makes him God is that mercy. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Okay. So here's how we end our discussions this summer is this is our summer of joy and I think it's. So cool and not a coincidence meant to be that Sherry gets to answer this question because I said, ladies, I want you to tell us how you count it all joy when you're going through trials and tribulations.
And Sherry wrote a book called count it all joy. It's so fun. So ladies, that's my question for you. How do you count it all joy?
[01:11:43] Sherrie Mills Johnson: For me, the only way we can count it all joy is to know why we can count it all joy, and then how to do it. And why should I count it all joy is because I have a savior who has promised to save me from all that is not joy.
And when I trust in him like that, I, like, like Laresawas just talking about, there are a lot of things in our lives we can't control. Thank you. And they're not always pleasant. As a matter of fact, very often they're unpleasant. But, we can count it joy, because we know that we have a Savior who saves us from the misery.
Who saves us from the pain. Too often we just think of the Savior saving us at the day of judgment. At the end of our lives, He's gonna save us. But, He saves me daily. There's two kinds of pain in life. This is one of the main things I talk about in the book. There's unnecessary pain, and there's necessary pain.
And the unnecessary pain comes about from sin. Uh, if we didn't sin, we wouldn't have that pain. Uh, it comes from fighting against reality and what's there, like, Like you fall and break your leg, there's pain from the leg, but, but if we say, Oh, that shouldn't have happened. Why did God let that happen? That just causes more pain.
And, and it's unnecessary pain because if we're trusting in him, we can avoid that. And then trying to avoid the necessary pain of life, uh, causes more pain and denying Jesus Christ's help and trust is causes us pains. So all of that's unnecessary pain that we can just let go of. We don't need to burden our lives with that, but the necessary pains are the natural laws of a telestial world cause pain.
There's just things that happen. You're going to fall and break the leg and that's going to be painful. Uh, But then trusting that God is gonna help to heal, that God is gonna help you deal with the pain from the leg. Trusting in that we, we can do that, that's joyful. That is an incredible source of joy that he is going to help us through.
That. And then opposition that we encounter when we're trying to do right, uh, is a necessary pain.
Whenever you make right choices, you're going to encounter opposition from other people telling you they're doing it wrong or not. And that's pain, and it's just a necessary pain that you've got to endure. The repentance process involves a certain amount of pain, but that's necessary for us to change and grow.
And then sometimes the actions of other people cause us a great deal of pain. But there again, we have a savior. And, uh, we can count it all joy, everything, even the bad that happens to us and especially the good that happens to us. We can count that all joy because we have a savior who loves us.
[01:14:57] Laresa Campbell: I love it. My word for the year in 2023 was joy. I've been a word of a year or a long, long time. And I always pray about it. I always think about it. And in 2023, my word was joy, but if you looked at the events of my life and things that happened to me in 2023, it was not joy, but that's where I learned that joy to me is not happiness.
Joy to me comes from the savior. Just like my mom just explained. Um, it's, it's getting out of that unnecessary pain. And once I leaned into that joy, I couldn't believe how I got through certain things that I got through because of what we have talked about today. The Savior loves us. He cares for us. He wants me to have joy.
And I think sometimes Satan trips us up and makes us think otherwise. Like, your life is so awful, Laresa. You're going through such hard times right now. You don't deserve to talk to anybody or do anything, but when I turned to joy, it was a different experience for me. I remember one night coming to my bed just weeping and just praying to Heavenly Father.
Please help me. And he said, and the thought came to me, get out a notebook and I'm gonna tell you, um, what I need you to hear. And I remember the very first phrase he said to me was, you are a daughter of a, of a rich father who loves you. And that page in my journal, I will forever, ever treasure. It's my joyful page.
And I do count it all joy that I was able to listen to what he had to say to me.
[01:17:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Could there be anything more joyful than a loving Heavenly Father? I just heavenly parents who love us. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you to both of you. What a wonderful discussion this has been today of these chapters filled with so much love, a loving parent and a loving child.
Because as you said, Sherry, in the very next verse of that chapter, he does go on a mission. He goes and he serves and he serves a wonderful mission and it's, it ends up being happy. So
[01:17:39] Laresa Campbell: Thank you. Thank you so, so much. I have felt the spirit so strong today. Me too. I want to get off.
[01:17:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. It was so fun.
There it is. Count it all joy. Oh my gosh. How fun. The timing of that was incredible. I'm going to recommend reading her book. You can find it on Amazon. We're going to include the link in our show notes so you can go and check that out. And then if you're listening and you have not joined us on Facebook.
Book or Instagram, go and do that. That way you can just see all the fun things we're going to post all summer about counting it joy, as well as including a link and information soon about our upcoming event on August 24th. And then at the end of the week, we usually post a question related to this discussion today.
So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway. It's where we're going to have links to the references as well as a transcript of this whole discussion.
So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall and today our fabulous Beautiful study group participants were Sherry Mills, Johnson, and Laresa Campbell. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.
com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We will see you next week and please remember the merciful God. He loves you and you are his favorite.