The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: While serving on the primary general board, a woman by the name of Clara McMaster received the assignment to write a song about teaching children. She found this assignment especially daunting and she prayed to know how to begin and complete this assignment. So after a lot of effort, she submitted her work only to be told it just wasn't right yet.
So she wasn't told what to only to continue in her effort until it was right. She was spiritually exhausted, not knowing how to proceed. She again sought guidance from the Lord, made changes and submitted another edition. This process continued three times until at last she was told it was perfect and she was not to change a thing.
The song she wrote is teach me to walk in the light. What are we teaching and how is it being taught today? As we study Alma chapters 36 through 38, we will look at what Alma the younger taught his sons and then asked his sons to teach the people and my guests who I consider to be master teachers are going to help me with this assignment.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living where we take the come follow me lesson for the week. And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study.
Just like my friend, Joan Ennis. Hi, Joan. Thanks for listening. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends, so it's always a little bit different. And today I'm so excited for this different because I love these two women so much. I have Holly Butterfield Rawlings, otherwise known as HB.
Hi HB.
[00:01:44] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Holla.
[00:01:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Holly and I are so excited to introduce you to our common friend, but I met her through HB and her name is Jen Pua. Hello, Jen.
[00:01:55] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Aloha. How are you?
[00:01:56] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: This is so exciting. Are they really saying aloha in Hawaii? I asked Jen that. I heard that and I thought, they don't, they don't do that.
I asked Jen. She's like, yeah, they do that. I was like, oh. That's so cool. All right.
[00:02:10] Jen Pua VanHaaften: She wanted to know if we really said that at church. And I was like all day long, girlfriend.
[00:02:15] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Well, because you know, I got people coming back from vacation in my ward and they're like, we just went to Hawaii. Aloha. And I thought, do they really do that? But when you go to church in Hawaii, it's awesome.
[00:02:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is awesome. They say it from the pulpit at their testimony. Aloha, brothers and sisters. Jen's from Hawaii in case anyone was wondering. Where are you from? Give us your story, Jen.
[00:02:41] Jen Pua VanHaaften: I am from the best town ever, Laie, Hawaii, where the temple is and BYU and the Polynesian Culture Center. And I was born and raised there and that is where my heart resides. It is just the best place ever.
[00:02:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It really is. Okay. So if you're from Hawaii, then how do you know HB? Let's tell that story. This is fun.
[00:03:03] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Go for it, HB.
[00:03:05] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: So, Jen, I'm from Maine. And Jen's from another, you know, coast and we both found ourselves as new teachers at Butler Middle, home of the Bruins in, uh, in Cottonwood Heights and, um, Utah. Let's make sure, you know, we were both, we were both new and, and, um, Jen had already been there a year, but it was my first year. And I remember meeting her and looking at her and thinking, Oh, I hope she wants to be my friend. And so, um, Oh, I love it. And so then I had this crazy idea that required 32 liter soda bottles and Jen happened to be there after school.
I was like, Hey, um, could you give me a ham or something? Anyway, 24 trips later, up and down the stairs, we, we had become fast friends and we started the adventures of Holly and Jen, which have continued on to this day.
[00:04:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, so fun. And then I met Jen through HB and immediately fell in love with her. Like, of course, I'm going to like Jen.
It's a no brainer. .
[00:04:17] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: And listen, when you. If you have ever had the pleasure of being in Ms. Kekahoa's classroom and now Mrs. Van Haften's classroom, you, you get to see a master teacher. And one thing that I've always admired about Jen is she loved her students. And. She loves history. Now she's the librarian, but, and she loves books and she loves reading, but she loves kids.
I always tell people, you want to feel the Holy ghost. You walk into a public middle school because you're going to be there. It's true. You're going to be there with all these kids, all these precious, precious children of the Lord. And you're going to be with all these adults who love them. Yeah.
[00:05:12] Jen Pua VanHaaften: And Holly is just as skilled.
She's like, it's been It's been 30 years and I can be hanging out with Holly and we'll see an old student and Holly will absolutely remember who they are and stories about them. And she is a master teacher as well. And it was just one of the best times of my life to be teaching next door to her. It was really, really fun.
Along with a bunch of other miraculous teachers at that school. It's a great school.
[00:05:39] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Shout out to Shelly Andrews. You're in heaven.
[00:05:42] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Shout out to Shelly Andrews.
[00:05:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, in anyone who teaches talk about a labor of love, you'd have to have the spirit to teach because heaven knows you don't get paid enough.
[00:05:51] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: So we're in it for the money. Okay. Yeah, we're in it for the cold cash .
[00:05:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So you guys have been in the trenches. I mean, you've taught junior high and middle school, so this is going to be such a fun discussion because I noticed a theme of the word teach throughout. And we are going to be, I, I mean, I kind of want to give it away, but not really.
But we get to hear from them and they're going to help us. They're going to teach. In this episode. And I could not be more excited. I know their faces are like, no
[00:06:18] Jen Pua VanHaaften: pressure is on.
[00:06:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So we're going to have a great time. Okay. If you guys want to know more about my guests, just go read their bios and you can see their pictures, which are going to be in our show notes found at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. So grab your scriptures, everyone. And you're going to want something to mark your scriptures with. We're going to mark them a lot today, and we're going to dig into Alma chapters 36 through 38. Real, real short three chapters. Here we go. All right, you two, tell me what the Holy Ghost taught you as you read these three chapters.
[00:06:49] Jen Pua VanHaaften: So I'll start. And, um, in Alma 37 too, he says, and I also command you that you keep a record of this people, according as I have done upon the plates of Nephi and keep all these things sacred, which I have kept. Even as I have kept them for, it is for a wise purpose that they are kept. And I have been thinking a lot about record keeping and the purpose for which they are kept.
But as I was preparing for the podcast, I realized that I often think of the wise purpose on a global level, you know, like he gave us these scriptures and he saved the lame, Eventually saved the Lamanites and he taught the Nephites and just this global level. But I realized that the wise purpose is also individual.
He has created this for a wise purpose for each and every one of us. And Holly has a wise purpose and Tammy has a wise purpose and I have a wise purpose. And so I just really, that brought me a lot of comfort to know that the Lord Is mindful of who I am and, and what my purpose should be and can be, and that I should continue to strive for that.
But just really that it's an individual thing as well as a global thing.
[00:08:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my God. I love that so much, Jen.
[00:08:13] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I love that. Just to think about how personal the gospel of Jesus Christ is. You know, we kind of move as a unit a lot. We talk about the ward, the stake, the, the youth, the, you know, but it really is about the one.
[00:08:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Jen, I have a follow up question because you said you've been thinking a lot about record keeping lately. What do you mean by that?
[00:08:37] Jen Pua VanHaaften: I have been contemplating what it means to record the spiritual experiences that I have, not only for myself, but to pass on to my children. I mean, my kids know that I love Diet Coke and Oreos and Harry Potter and just all these things, but I also want them to know that I love the Lord and the Lord loves me.
And those instances, those personal instances, when I've been taught by the spirit, that I am able to pass that on to my children, because the other thing, and I might be jumping ahead, but I noticed that when the Lord asks us, um, to place our trust in him, he's off. I'm, I'm the kind of person who's always searching for what can I concrete do?
What, What action can I take instead of it just being in my heart and mind, which is also important. But I noticed that as soon as the Lord asked us to trust him, he also asked us to remember. And so for me, that's a concrete thing I can do. I can remember the God of Egypt. I can remember the God. Um, that parted the Red Sea, but I can also remember those special moments when the Spirit testified to me that President Nelson is the prophet, or that the Spirit testified to me that I should learn how to live my life from a place of faith and not fear.
And all of those things have really impacted who I am. And so when I think about learning how to trust the Lord, I noticed in these chapters that it's also about remembering, and that's a concrete thing I can do. I can go back and remember when he has blessed me.
[00:10:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. That is so cool. Because as you were talking, I'm thinking about Helaman and all of these men who have kept the records.
And I wonder if they were like, It's just a journal entry. Like, do I really have to write this stuff down? Like I like hair, like my kids already know I like Diet Coke and Harry Potter. And, and I wonder if any of these people, men were like, what do I need to write? And, and I actually had this thought right before we recorded this podcast today, saying a little prayer about this episode and how it would go.
And, um, I had a memory. of what happened the last time I recorded and I had an experience that was so spiritual and I didn't write it down. And the spirit said, you better write that down so you don't forget it. And I remember thinking, okay, after this episode, I'm going to go write it down. So now I really am because you just testified the wise purpose in writing our experiences.
That was so cool.
[00:11:10] Jen Pua VanHaaften: And I have never been a journal keeper because I'm like, who cares what I wore or or who I fought with in middle school or what. You know, who cares? Nobody cares. And plus I look like an idiot. So, but I think that I just have been thinking a lot about that. How do I make sure that my children know what I believe and how do I remember in my times of trial?
[00:11:35] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I was like, I got to pick that back up again, because I kept a journal during my mission, so glad. Great. Beautiful experiences in there that have instructed me in, in the times past. Then I went through the decade of, uh, being single and the, uh, horror and desperation that emerges from those pages is tangible.
And I am so embarrassed. And what a weirdo I was.
[00:12:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Hold on. I'm just now thinking because every time they write in here, they're like, I can only Moroni and Mormon say, I'm only going to write one one hundredth of what there is. There's so many records. I'm only giving you one one hundredth. Maybe the other hundredth is them saying all the weirdo stuff, maybe like the dating and the clothes they wore and the diet Coke they drank. Maybe Mormon just picked the very best of the best right here.
[00:12:29] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Right, right. I love that. How many times is a guy going to tell me, I just, I just want to be friends. And I say, well, if I needed another friend, I'd buy a dog. How, how many times, how many times do I have to write that down? And then, you know, the heartbreak.
Like I'm Sandy, I'm hopelessly devoted to you.
[00:12:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's so true. You were a victim of unrequited love for 20 years. Horror.
[00:13:02] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: It's the hardest part. But I love what Jen said because, you know, we're going through a bit of a rough patch right now. The golden retrievers got this weird disease. My husband got laid off.
I just had surgery, like, you know, kind of in a whirlwind of an onslaught right now. You have three teenagers. Oh, sure. I got three. Yes, three. The three 17 year olds. One thing that has helped me feel peace sometimes is remembering how stressful it was to be To not be married and thinking like, I mean, Jen, you know, you were with me every day through the that decade.
And Tammy, you know, we were roommates during that time. I mean, the like that, and then remembering the triplets in the NICU and, and, you know, and just knowing that the Lord has not abandoned me in the past. And so why would he now, even though I'm going to be honest with everyone here on this podcast. I'm really hoping by the time this baby airs, my husband is employed because it is tough going out there.
And I know there's lots of people listening to this who are facing the same trial. So we just have to remember the Lord is in charge and he's going to lead us. Lead us, you know, like you mentioned through the Red Sea.
[00:14:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. I appreciate your words and your testimony right there about, I mean, this is gonna be a great episode and I do hope by the time this airs, but I think what's really cool HB is the lens you're viewing these chapters through for all three of us is really going to affect the discussion we have.
And it already has. That's what's so cool. So thank you. Okay. Turn with me to Alma chapter 35. I want to show you two verses. That's going to give us some context for the rest of our discussion in these chapters, Alma chapter 35. Let's just look at verses 15 and 16 and HB. Can you read both of these verses for us?
You bet. This is the purpose of what we're about to study for the next two weeks.
[00:15:24] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Okay. So here we go with Alma 35, 15. Now Alma being grieved for the iniquity. And this is Alma the younger, right, Tam? It is. Okay. For the iniquity of his people, yea, for the wars and the bloodsheds and the contentions which were among them, and having been to declare the word or sent to declare the word among all the people in every city, and seeing that the hearts of the people began to wax hard and that they began to be offended because of the strictness of the word, his heart was exceedingly sorrowful.
Therefore, he caused that his son should be gathered together that he might give unto them every one his charge. separately concerning the things pertaining to righteousness and we have an account of his commandments, which he gave unto them according to his own record.
[00:16:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. And that record then is going to begin in Alma chapter 36, and we'll start that in the next segment.
Segment 2
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[00:16:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Grab something to mark your scriptures with. We're going to circle some words and phrases in this discussion. Amen. Amen. Throughout this whole discussion, but specifically in this segment, here's what I want us to circle. We're going to go to Alma chapter 37 verse 29 because there is a word that Alma repeats to his sons often.
We're going to skip to Alma 37, but we're going to come back to 36, but I just want to show you the word that's going to set this up for us. So in Alma chapter 37 verse 29, it says it twice. Here we go. Therefore, you shall keep these secret plans of their oaths and their covenants from these people and only their wickedness and their murders and their abominations shall you make known unto them.
And you shall teach them, circle the word, teach to abhor such wickedness and abominations and murders. And you shall also teach them. There it is again. Teach that these people were destroyed on account of their wickedness. Okay. The word teach. Then let's go to verse 32. Find the word teach right there.
Circle it. That's the very end of the verse. And then again, in verse 33, check that out. You're going to see it twice. Teach them to humble themselves. Teach them to withstand every temptation. Verse 34, teach them to never be weary of good works. Then go to chapter 38. We're going to circle the word teach again in Alma chapter 38, go to verse 10.
And now as you have begun to teach the word, even so I would, that you should continue to teach. And then verse 15, and may the Lord bless your souls and receive you at the last day into his kingdom to sit down in peace. Now go my son and teach the word unto this people. So Alma instructs his sons to teach.
That is what he wants them to do. Teach, teach, teach, teach, teach. And there's a lot to teach. And we're going to study all of the things that he wants them to teach. But I asked my two master teachers. This question, I want us to think about this because ladies, what are some of the best ways to teach the youth or the people of our church today?
Can the truths that Alma talked about really be taught? Or are they just things that we just, cause sometimes in gospel doctrine, things just get said. It's almost like we keep saying the same thing, like a broken record. How do we really teach so that people can learn?
[00:18:48] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: So I've been thinking about this for a while.
My husband and I taught Sunday school for many years. In fact, the Bishop called us the Marshalls and we didn't correct him. Our last name is Rawlings. He'd say, Hey, sister Marshall. I'd say, Hey, Bishop for two years, because we loved teaching Sunday school. And you know, you got to fly under the radar. You don't have the Bishop to mess it up, but give you a different calling.
Hey, Bishop, brother Marshall. Good to see you. Hey, Bishop. There are no marshals in our ward, the best part of that story, but, um, as I was reading in Alma 36 and how Alma the Younger, he, he lays it all out. He, he is totally transparent and frank about his sins and it. I think that in order to teach faith, repentance, and the joy of forgiveness and all the other like good news of the gospel, we have to be honest and we've got to be transparent and we're so afraid of letting kids know that we've ever looked at pornography or we've ever.
Sinned or we've ever we've ever had we have ever had to go through the repentance process and I'm not talking about like Delving into the nitty gritty, like, you know, prurient aspects, but I, I don't know why, I don't know how we're ever going to really help a kid who's struggling, know that she can be forgiven or he can be forgiven or that there's hope if they think not one adult in the whole, you know, You know, chapel has ever had to go through the repentance process.
And so we kind of speak in these veiled, like I went through a difficult time. I, you know, but, um, I, I have found with my own children and, you know, you, you got to use your best judgment, but I'll never forget our friend Sandy and she's been on the podcast before she was in stake young women's camp in somewhere in the Midwest and her first counselor.
Got up and shared how she, um, became pregnant as a teenager and the struggles that she went through and the joy of repentance that came and that baby was a Laurel in camp and there was no embarrassment. There was no shame. So I think the reason we never talk about any of this is because Satan has convinced us we're not really forgiven.
And so, yeah. I, I felt again, really strongly that if we want to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, then we have to be honest. We have to tell the truth. And Alma the younger does not hold back.
[00:22:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In fact, Holly, as you were talking, I, I absolutely agree 1000 percent with everything you said. I feel so strongly that we need to share our repentance stories.
And I was looking in this Alma 36, read verse 17 and then read verse 20. Cause I thought, can you imagine if someone got up at testimony or if someone was teaching gospel doctrine and this came out of their mouths. So read verse 17 and then verse 20.
[00:22:26] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: This actually happened in my ward. Where I live and it was the most beautiful.
I'll tell you more in a second. And it came to pass. That as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a son of God to atone for the sins of the world in 18.
Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart, Oh Jesus, the son of God have mercy on me who am in the gall of bitterness and I'm encircled about by the everlasting chains of death. And now behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more. Yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
And oh, what joy and what marvelous light I did behold. Yay. My soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain. So in my ward, a man, a beautiful man got up, beautiful family, you know, callings out the wazoo, you know, whatever the calling is, these people have done it. Just really solid, great people. And uh, he, he stood up and shared, and this was probably 10 years ago, he stood up and shared about his 20 year battle with pornography.
And it changed. It is a game changer. Our word has never been the same, but in a good way. And it's. You know, like it just, it was exactly what all of us needed and no one thought any different. In fact, loved him more because he had stayed, he had stayed and, and, and this is a man who could testify about the bitter pains of hell that, that he was feeling.
And then the joy. That had come to him throughout this struggle.
[00:24:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Isn't that amazing how it moved your word from being the tradition of repentance to the truth of repentance? Yeah, I think we get caught up a lot in traditions. We've talked about this on the podcast before, but so much of what our youth are receiving today almost feel like traditions, which makes it hard for them to hold onto.
They have to be, have to know what's true. Like a hypothesis.
[00:24:55] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Yeah. From what we read. Supposedly, there's a savior who can heal all your wounds and knows how you feel and can bear the weight of your sorrow and your sins in theory, you know? And so, yeah, there's no theory in Alma 36, you know, on creation, right?
And that's the gospel that resonates with me because then there's no room for, well, it worked for, you know, it worked for them, but is it going to work for me? Yeah. Yeah. Well, absolutely it will. This guy was going around trying to destroy the church of God.
[00:25:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: But don't you love how in verse 17 he's like, but I did remember that my dad mentioned something about a Jesus growing up.
[00:25:41] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Yeah.
[00:25:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Like he had that in his memory. There's a little bit there, a little bit of truth, but yeah, I think this is so cool.
[00:25:47] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Isn't that what we all are hoping that like Jen, like you said, that there'll be like my mom liked Oreos and diet Coke and reality TV. That's my kids. And Jesus. Yes.
[00:25:58] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Yeah. And Jesus. Yeah.
Well, and I think Holly, you hit on it when. You said it has to be taught with love, because as soon as you, I had a really profound experience when my kids were, my oldest was just going into, um, young men and it was the first face to face. Do you guys remember those? And I think Elder Bednar spoke, and I have no idea what Elder Bednar was saying at the moment, but it came to me clear as, clear as a bell.
That I had to start parenting from a place of faith and not a place of fear, because if I'm parenting from a place of fear, and my kids are rolling their eyes right now, probably listening to this and being like, well, mom, keep working because it is a, it is a work in progress. But when I'm parenting from a place of fear, it's impossible.
To share that love because the fear just overtakes your emotions and your heart and you're panicking and you just want your babies to be safe and happy and healthy and all those things. And it, it gives, for me, at least it's almost like a sense of panic. And I just need to fix this, but that's, that's not how the atonement works.
That's not how our God works. That's not how our brother works. They, Jesus spent all of his time. Out in the margins, loving people. That's what he did. And so I think when we talk about teaching our youth, I think you absolutely have to be honest. They need to know that the conversion and repentance process that we do happens some all the time, like just cause you get to a certain point and you've checked off all the boxes.
That doesn't mean you're free and clear, right? You have to keep converting. They need the real stories, right?
[00:27:58] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: They, they need to know that when Marty lost his job in 1997, you had some serious doubts that the Lord was gonna, you know, be there and they need to know. That we've messed up. Yeah. I need to know when we haven't always been tithe payers.
They need to know like what the journey was back from that. Yes. Like there's nothing that can separate us. And so then they'll know there's nothing that can separate them from the love of Jesus Christ. Mm
[00:28:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: hmm. It's true. Okay. It's true. So true because it's true. As you both were talking, I'm just now realizing, and I've never read Alma 36, 37, 38, and the next week, 39 with the lens that you just created.
Cause I wrote my scriptures, Alma taught his sons from a place of love and not fear. There is no shame in any of these chapters. Well, in, HB, I remember a few years ago you told me about an article you read about why millennials are leaving the church at such a rapid pace, and I could swear you told me the number one reason was that they felt there was a disconnect between them and the older people, meaning they didn't feel like they, they felt like you don't understand what we're going through and not a generation gap in more of a like, you've never done anything bad.
So how do you know the atonement really works? So I have to leave because nobody can prove that it's real.
[00:29:28] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Right. And it was a lack of honoring the struggle. So it's, yeah, it's, that's what it was, right? We don't encourage, we don't encourage young adults and young people or, or anyone for that matter, sometimes to actually share why it's so hard.
And, um, Let me tell you what, if you decide to be vulnerable in your ward, it will be a game changer. I mean, just yesterday in Relief Society, pe, or I guess it was Sunday school, but you know, people will share really intense, but like appropriate, you know, the depths to which they have doubted and, and, and.
The ways they have felt like they've turned their back on the Lord and then the sweet joy of coming back and like, it is no holds barred in my ward. And I, and I love that. And it was not always like that. It was not always like that. And so. You know, if you want your Sunday experience to be like that, you gotta be brave and just, and I mean, I'll never forget sitting in Relief Society like 10 years ago, I don't know, everyone was, it was on going to the temple and like.
Oh, you know, I just love going to the temple. And, uh, and I was sitting there thinking, I hate going to the temple. I feel like I'm gonna have a panic attack. Every time I walk in there, I'm going to be trapped in there. It's going to be hot. Who am I going to sit by? I get really anxious before I go in there.
And I felt bad, like, Oh, I must not have a testimony of the temple, but that wasn't true at all. It was just, and so I said, a little different for me. I don't really like it. Yeah. You know, and I, and I explained how that, how I felt that way. And so many people said, I felt that way and, and here's what I've done.
And, and they helped me, you know, get through that. And. I mean, I still don't, I still, you know, I have a little bit of that, but it's way better than it was. And so let's help them with our testimony and encouragement and
[00:31:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: well, and, and let's move from tradition to truth. That's what we need to get in our congregations for sure.
So thank you both of you for sharing that. So here's what we'll do in the next segment. We're going to talk about another recurring phrase. And we're going to get into a discussion about that and the role that it played in Alma story and all of ours. We'll do that next.
Segment 3
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[00:32:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. Get that scripture marker again and we're going to circle another recurring phrase and here we go. It is in Alma chapter 36 verse five. We're going to start there. Alma chapter 36 verse five. Here we go. It says, now, behold, I say unto you, if I had not been born of God. Circle that born of God.
We're going to see it again in verse 23. At the very end, he talks about it, but behold, my limbs did receive their strength again. And I stood upon my feet and did manifest unto the people that I had been born of God. Verse 24 at the very end, circle that born of God. And in verse 26, you're going to see it there in the middle.
Many have been born of God and have tasted as I have tasted. Now turn to Alma chapter 38 and look at verse 6. And verse six says that at the very end, he says, now my son, I would not that you should think that I know these things of myself, but it is the spirit of God, which is in me, which make it these things known unto me.
For if I had not been born of God, I should not have known these things. Okay, there we go. Born of God, born of God. This stood out to me because it's different than born again. It's born of God. And I wanted to know, tell me about this. What are your thoughts on born of God? What does this mean? And what is Alma trying to teach us?
[00:33:33] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Well, I don't know how good this is, but I noticed that when he is talking about being born of God again, it is described in the, pretty closely to what it is when we give birth to children. I don't know if you noticed that.
[00:33:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So talk to us.
[00:33:55] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Well, like in verse, um, 15, he says, I could be banished and become extinct. soul and body. And then in 16, he talks about three days, which we know from the Bible and from previous podcasts that, um, means divine and wholeness and complete. And then in 17, he says, I'm wracked with torment and 18, it's the everlasting chains of death. So, which is really what it is like when you're giving birth.
I mean, all of those words, when I can, when I actually give birth to my children, that's, That's what it feels like. And then you pair that up with 19 and it says, and now behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more. Yeah. I was haired up by the memory of my sins no more. And Oh, what joy and what marvelous, marvelous light I did behold.
And that's exactly how birth is for me. I, I joke that the miracle of birth is that you sign up to do it again, right? Wow. Oh, difficult. I can't believe it. Joy.
[00:35:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: How many times have you done it, Jen? How many children do you have?
[00:35:07] Jen Pua VanHaaften: I have four boys. Yeah. Bless them. They're amazing. But the joy that comes after that exquisite pain is beyond anything.
I've ever known. And I think when I think about these chapters, I remember that this is a father teaching his sons. And so the love that we have for our children is absolutely mirrored back to us in so many times, stronger from our father in heaven. Right? And so that just kind of stood out to me that. Born of God.
[00:35:43] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Wow. Don't you think that sister Alma was there? I mean, you know, we don't, we don't see her, but of course, if they're having this like conversation and Jen, it's so interesting that you read that through that lens. I was thinking about what it must like to be a baby, how violent you're in this womb.
You're all toasty, roasty, cozy, hanging out, blowing bubbles, whatever is going on in there. And then it's showtime, right? And it is violent to, to be born. It is so, it is so violent and, and then you're, it must be painful for a baby. To, to come through the canal like that and, and like, and then have to figure out how to breathe.
I just think about their little lungs, how that must feel. And, and I remember seeing my own triplets who were three months early and you could tell they, they did not feel good. You know, they were in pain. And you don't remember that just like it said in, you know, 19. And then when you do like come unto yourself, when you're, when you're old enough to realize, like, I am a child of God.
And like your purpose, like the joy that you feel when that like clicks and we're so as women, we, we get to, you know, be first we're part of that for every child that we have. And then we're born of God again and again and again and again. Throughout our lives. Wow.
[00:37:38] Jen Pua VanHaaften: The other thing that I think of a lot when I, um, read this part about born of God is I, I read and listen, I read a lot of Christian fiction and they talk about being born of God all the time.
And one thing that they do really well is they. When they say that they've been born of God, they let their sins go. And they kind of let that guilt go and they move on really well. And I don't know that I certainly am not very good at that at. Acknowledging the power of the atonement and acknowledging the power of my God and saying, I, he has forgiven me and I can move on and I can be born of God.
I hold on to a lot of that guilt and that angst and that pain. And I think it's something that. We really need to learn how to do to acknowledge the, because really we're saying the atonement isn't good enough when we, when we hold on to that grief, we're saying it's not good enough. It's not powerful enough.
And I have to keep punishing myself for fixing it or mulling over it or whatever it is we do. And so. That's one thing that also really stood out to me that there is this moment of pain, but once, once we have felt that and gone through repentance and really had that conversation with our God about who we are and what we want to become, then we need to move on.
We need to move past that and step into the joy instead of hanging back here in the dark and beating ourselves up. I'm,
[00:39:23] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I'm raising my hand as if I were with Tamu. And like claiming Jesus, because Jen, that is bingo. And you're right. Like if you go to another, like a born again, Christian faiths worship service, those people are rejoicing.
Yeah. Jen, do you remember having lunch one time? I know you know exactly who I'm talking about. A woman of great faith who's not LDS. And she said. I've been to sacrament meeting. Why would I ever, ever join your church? People look miserable. They look absolutely miserable. And I thought, oh my gosh, you're right.
Because. If you're like me, you're spending 80 of the time, 80 percent of the time thinking I'm not good enough. Yeah. Like we can't just sit there thinking we're not going to ever make it.
[00:40:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I really appreciate the way you connected this to the birthing language. I've never noticed that in these verses, Jen, because that was perfect.
Really powerful for me. And then you connected it to this idea that when he says, I, that I could never, I couldn't remember my pains. He said, when he says, I remember my pains no more, but sometimes we like to hold onto that pain and we do that. And it just reminded me of like, when I gave birth to my second child.
She had to do an emergency C section and they gave me a block from the waist down, obviously, so you can't feel anything, but they nicked something wrong. You remember this HB? They nicked something wrong. I, my left leg was numb for a month. I could not walk for an entire month because it, it dragged. Oh, you should have seen her.
She was the hunchback in Notre Dame. She's carrying this baby, dragging her like,
[00:41:12] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: you're going to drop Sophia. Yeah.
[00:41:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And it's funny cause I'm like, I don't ever think back to that, but it's almost like if you compare that to this repentance idea, can you imagine if I was the type of person where I was like, boy, you know, I know I gave birth to her C section, but boy, I couldn't walk forever.
I'd like to go back to those days. I sure would like to have my leg numb again. I mean, it's almost like we do that to ourselves with sin, like, remember it no more, let it go. I don't go back to that ever. I never rethink about the day I couldn't walk carrying my baby. It's over. It's done. And now she's 15.
And I'd love it if we could do that with the way we repent. It's over. It's done. And now my, I'm 15 years out from committing that stupid whatever. And like, I just love this idea to remember it no more. And what I think is awesome is verse 26 and every one of us talking and every one of us listening, we've all experienced this.
This is cool. Jen read 26.
[00:42:12] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Um, this is Alma 3626 for because of the word which he has imparted unto me, behold, many have been born of God and have tasted as I have tasted and have seen eye to eye as I have seen. Therefore, they do know of these things of which I have spoken as I do know, and the knowledge which I have is of God.
[00:42:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Like, look around at church. We've all, we're all in the same boat, every single one of us. And so let's just let it go. Move on. Absolutely.
[00:42:41] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: And you, do you know what I think? One thing that I've struggled with, and I think this is like universal to being a human is sometimes we focus on the worst thing that's ever happened to us, whether we caused it or it just happened.
And we make that the most important thing about us. Oh,
[00:42:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: amen.
[00:42:58] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: So like right now I could be. The woman whose husband lost his job, please speak in hushed tones, or I could, I could have, you know, and trust me, I've, I've spent plenty of time in that space in the last three months and, or, you know, when we couldn't have kids, I could be the woman who is having problems.
with her uterus. I, I could be, we can all, or like, I'm the parent of the child who won't come to sacrament meeting. And I don't know why we do that when I love the verse you just read. We have way more interesting things about us than being, you know, the child of an abusive parent. I speak from experience, so I'm not just tossing that out there.
[00:43:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Holly, I love that you said that because then verse 27 is the most important thing about you. So yes, you are a victim of an abusive parent. But that's not the most important thing about you. Verse 27 is read verse 27.
[00:44:13] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: And I have been supported under trials and troubles of every kind. Yay. And in all manner of afflictions, yeah, God has delivered me from prison and from bonds and from death.
Yay. And I do put my trust in him and he will still deliver me.
[00:44:32] Jen Pua VanHaaften: And right there, he takes us back to that word trust, right? And right prior to that, he's remembering that God has delivered him and that's how he's delivering. That's how he's learned to trust the Lord
[00:44:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: and that we're delivered a birth word.
[00:44:47] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Yeah, and then he acknowledges that he will deliver them
[00:44:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: in fact cross reference verse 27 to verse 3 of this chapter because he says the same thing in verse 3 and he'll say it Again to his next son in Alma chapter 38 verse 5. Oh So good you guys Cause that's the message of Alma the Younger.
[00:45:10] Jen Pua VanHaaften: And that's the important part to remember even about ourselves, right?
We've been delivered by God, that he loves us enough to deliver us on a daily basis, right? That's the part we should remember. Jen, that's so cool
[00:45:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: cause he's delivering us. He's willing to put forth more effort than we are. Oh, it's true. And thank goodness, right?
[00:45:35] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Just like a mother is willing to carry a baby and then literally deliver us from one realm to the next.
[00:45:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's so cool. That was a powerful discussion. I loved looking at those words of birthing. And I do think sister Alma had something to do with this. Okay. Well, here's what we're going to do in the next segment. We are going to discover an assignment that Alma gives to one of his sons. So we'll do that next.
Segment 4
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[00:46:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's turn to Alma chapter 37 and we're going to mark right here. He's already been speaking to this son, but specifically now he gives this son a very important assignment. Alma chapter 37 verse one. Jen, can you read that for us?
[00:46:33] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Yes, and now my son Helaman, I command you that ye take the records which have been entrusted with me.
Now here's what he asks. Go ahead and read verse two. And I also command you that ye keep a record of this people according as I have done upon the plates of Nephi and keep all these things sacred, which I have kept, even as I have kept them. Amen. Where it is for a wise purpose that they are kept.
[00:46:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you.
That's the scripture you shared. And the whole experience. I think this is awesome. Knowing what we know now about this, right? Your records, right? Your story. Now, a little bit about Helaman and then you can put this anywhere you want on this page or on Alma 36, but Alma chapter 31 is when we're first introduced to Helaman.
That's when Alma found out about the Zoramites, the people who were praying on the Ramayim And he decided we've got to go and preach the gospel to those people. So he took a missionary dream team with him and it lists all the people he took with them, but he left his son Helaman behind. And it says it is his oldest son.
So he leaves Helaman behind to take care of the affairs of the people while he and the other sons go on a mission to teach the Zoramites. Now as some context for who this Helaman is, Alma is going to command Helaman to write Helaman is going to reestablish the church in Alma 45. He's also going to be with the 2000 young Ammonite warriors, Helaman stripling warriors.
This is the Helaman we're talking about. He's a prophet. He's a military leader. And he and his brother are going to be left in charge of the church in Alma chapter 45, when Alma the younger just leaves. It's kind of cool. We'll get to that later. But what we want to know is that Alma, the younger is telling his son, I want you to be in charge of these plates.
And I love verse five, because not only do I want you to write on them. But this is interesting in verse five, he says, now, behold, if they are kept, they must retain their brightness. Yay. And they'll, they will retain their brightness. Yay. And also shall all the plates, which do contain that, which is holy writ six says, now you may suppose that this is foolishness in me.
But behold, I saying to you that by small and simple things are great things brought to pass. I mean, we, we know that scripture mastery scripture, but isn't it interesting that the small and simple things, great things brought to pass are referring to making sure that the plates retain their brightness.
Don't let them get dingy, keep them beautiful as they are and continue
[00:48:53] Jen Pua VanHaaften: to write on them. Do you think it also means to continue to read them and interact them and not leave them on a shelf? No. Tell me more about that, Jen. Why did you think that? I don't know. I just, I, the word brightness jumped out to me when I was studying and I've been thinking about it, but I hadn't, um, I hadn't got to where you got, which is that just to keep them bright and, and useful.
And lovely. So I don't know, maybe it just means we don't want this on a shelf. I want you to keep interacting with this, using it, creating it, learning from it.
[00:49:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, isn't that so cool? Because if you leave brass on a shelf, just over time, what will it do? Tarnish.
[00:49:37] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Yeah. It tarnishes. Yeah. And
[00:49:39] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I was thinking that, uh, sterling silver, I was sterling silver bracelet.
If I ever take it off, it, it turns black.
[00:49:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. Yes. If you keep it on, which things contrary, like, why would you keep it on? It's always shiny. So it's not so cool, Jennifer, that you just connected that, that keeping it shiny and helping it retain its brightness requires it to be used. Love that. So good. So yeah, use the scriptures, make sure, and you continue to use them.
And then he says, why we're going to read verse eight and then we're going to go over and read verse 18. So here we go. I must
[00:50:15] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: interject. I was just thinking too, that in case you're sitting at home thinking like, Oh, I don't Great. Now I've got to get, you know, I got to dust them off and I got to, right.
Listen, you can either remember a scripture that you maybe know some of the words to it all counts. It all counts. If you, if you want to crack it open, do the like, you know, magic eight ball approach to studying the book of Mormon, you know, you just, whatever you can give. Okay. That is exactly enough
[00:50:52] Jen Pua VanHaaften: and because we all work outside the home, right? So this, we,
[00:50:58] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: how do people make dinner? How do we, I don't know. We have a segment on that, Tam. You bet. How's anyone making dinner?
[00:51:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just the bare minimums. How are we doing that?
[00:51:09] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I'm coming home. I am bedraggled when I walk through the door. Ready?
[00:51:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, this is so fun because just two weeks ago, Lily, my daughter, who's 17, it's the end of the school year.
She's studying for finals. She's got AP tests that she needs to take. It's just chaos, right? And then life and friends. And she was crying because she was super duper frustrated about how she was going to be able to get everything done. I'm sitting at her bed and I look over her scriptures and I said this to her.
I promise you, if you read your scriptures every night before you go to bed, you will make it through the week. You will have time to study. You will have time to get everything done that you need to do, and you will not be stressed. And all you have to do is read a verse. That's all. If that's all you can do, just read one little verse, boop, and then go to bed and God's going to help you.
Because I've had that experience, but I've never testified that to my daughter. So she did it. A week and a half later in seminary, they had a seminary fireside for all the seniors who were leaving in her class and they could get up and bear their testimony. And I said, Oh, that was cool. And she told me about some testimonies and she said, and then they said that it could be open to anybody else who wanted to.
And I didn't say anything and I was like, Oh, that's neat. And then she goes, yeah, I bore my testimony. I was like, well, what did you say? That's kind of cool. Were you nervous? Cause it was like a senior testimony meeting. And she said, no, I just got up and said, What you told me to do that if I read my scriptures every night, one verse a night, that I'd be able to make it through my week.
So I did it, mom. And it worked. I made it through everything I needed to do for school that week. And I did. And I bore my testimony that reading the scriptures works. And I was like, I
[00:52:42] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: get a slow clap, slow clap, everybody
[00:52:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: doing a hallelujah, you better believe that night in my prayers, I was like, can we father glad that worked out?
[00:52:52] Jen Pua VanHaaften: That is amazing.
[00:52:56] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: That's beautiful. How about when you promise your kids something and you're like on a prayer, you're like, Yeah.
[00:53:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. But it goes from tradition to teach. Like I hear if you read your scriptures, it works. Turns out it does. So it does. Yeah. And, and all of this discussion, this is so fun because Alma 37, here's the whole reason why we need scriptures.
This is so cool. Verse eight and verse 18. And then I'm going to ask you guys a question, HB, will you read verse eight and then Jen verse 18? You bet. Yeah. 37
[00:53:25] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: verse eight. And now it is hitherto been wisdom in God that these things should be preserved. For behold, they have enlarged the memory of this people.
Yea, and convinced many of the error of their ways, and brought them to the knowledge of their God and to the salvation of their souls.
[00:53:44] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Verse 18, For he promised unto them that he would preserve these things for a wise purpose in him, that he might show forth his power unto future generations. I mean, future generations, that's Lily.
[00:53:57] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Amen. That's me. And enlarging the memory, because the things that you two have shared with me today enlarges me. Like, I can tap into your faith and, and we can look at the scriptures in the same way. We can tap into like, oh man, like this guy was the vilest of sinners and now he's just filled with joy. I can, I can be that way too.
[00:54:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely.
[00:54:28] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I can believe he's going to deliver us. Right. Cause I keep telling my kids every night, dad'll get a job. The Lord is looking out for dad. He, dad is a great worker. He's, you know, he's smart. He's like, but every time I say that I'm like, and we fasted as a family haven't done that in a while. I, you know, I'm like, please come through for us because.
I am, I am, I am telling my kids, like, it's really going to work out. And so, Jen, I know you can speak to this.
[00:55:15] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Absolutely. I know
[00:55:16] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: you're telling, not about the job, but I know, like, how are you doing that?
[00:55:27] Jen Pua VanHaaften: I. I honestly don't know. I mean, we have had some grief in our family, um, that has brought us to our knees and, um, and we continue, we're, we're going through it right now, but I, it's exactly what we've talked about. I know that God loves me and he loves my children. And not only does he love us, but he knows us in the deepest.
Darkest parts of our hearts. He knows us and he still loves us despite all our fear. And he loves you because of it. He, he does. And, and I'm, and I'm so grateful. And as a parent, it's so, it's so hard. Cause you just want to fix everything for your kids. You just, and, and even now, I mean, I have beautiful adult children.
I have two beautiful daughters now, which are amazing. And you want to step in and you want to carry the load and you want to fix it for them. And you just spend a lot of time on your knees and you spend a lot of time trusting in the Lord and holding on to those things that he has done for you in the past. And believing in that
[00:56:47] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: and Jen is downplaying the grief, just so everybody knows, um, she is acquainted with grief, the most profound grief, and she still believes it brings me in my knees. Jen, I'll tell you, you're going to get, you're going to get beauty for ashes.
[00:57:16] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Wow. Well, I just, it's the only way I know to move forward is to.
Trust in my God and and it's a, it's a good thing to remember. I mean, we, we say it a lot these days that everybody's fighting a battle that we can't see, but it is so incredibly true and, and I think about how blessed we are that our savior, Jesus Christ. And our father does know the battles that we fight and that they walk with us, you know, as we do that, but it's true.
We don't people, people behave because of pain and because of grief and because of loss. And so it's an important thing, I think, to remember that he knows us and he loves us in the quiet is hidden sorrows that I can't see.
[00:58:12] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Yes.
[00:58:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And, and Jen reminds me of Alma 37 verse 36 then. I think this is totally you. Oh, you want to read that, Jen?
[00:58:24] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Sure. Yay. And crying to God for all they support. Yay. Let all thy doings be into the Lord and whithersoever thou goest, let it be in the Lord. Yay. Let all thy thoughts be directed into the Lord. Yay. Let the afflictions of thy heart be placed upon the Lord forever. and my God has Carried those afflictions for me and I'm extraordinarily grateful and, and, you know, and we have a good life. We have, I have, we have beautiful children and I have daughters now who are amazing and, and my boys are awesome too. And so, but, you know, he loves us and he knows us.
[00:59:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And wow, what a wise purpose that the Lord would give us scriptures, his word to us for future generations. And we're, we're experiencing that right now in this moment as a reminder, just from that one verse of scripture. So thank you for reading that. Thank you to both of you for testifying of the truthfulness of these verses and what Alma said to us on Helaman.
I appreciate that. Okay. So in the next segment, we are going to dive into a little bit more teaching from these master teachers. I've asked them to come prepared to teach us because there's so many awesome little nuggets of truth in these chapters that I wanted to give them the opportunity to teach us.
And so in the next segment, we're going to begin with HB and she's going to teach us somewhere in 36 through 38. And I have no idea what these two are teaching and I cannot wait.
Segment 5
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[01:00:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. I'm turning the time over to Holly Butterfield Rawlings. Otherwise known as HB. Teach us HB.
[01:00:25] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Well, I, you know, I've been thinking about this kind of universal pattern that we, and we've talked about it a little bit already, but that we all go through hardship and we all go through travail. We used to have this saying on my mission, the Arizona Tempe mission 31 years ago.
When something hard would happen, we'd say, I don't think I checked that box in the pre existence. I'm pretty sure I didn't agree to this. It's 122 degrees outside and I'm wearing a pair of knee highs. And I'm teaching the first discussion in an abandoned RV out in a field in Gilbert, Arizona. You did not check that box.
Probably a 2 million house now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen. Upon, upon the The fields of Gilbert, where your home now lies. I once, you know, I once was dragging my sorry self through, through those fields and, and just thinking about how universally we all have times of self doubt and doubt in the Lord and feeling angry at God and.
And feeling angry at ourselves or, or people who have trespassed against us. And we, so many of us struggle with mental illness and physical illness. And like, it's. You know, I'm kind of at the point now, I think if, if my family was going through this same trial right now, you know, I got a kid who's not doing very well.
I got my husband looking for a job. We've got the golden retriever. Who's got this weird neurological condition that just has appeared and the jury's still out on what will happen. And I know people are like, it's a dog, but my kids love this dog. And, you know, I got my broken toe and just all these dumb things that all added up together.
10 years ago, I would have been so mad at God and, and I would have hated myself and thought I must've done something to, to bring this on. But when I read these, these verses that over and over. That this is just the deal, but I've been thinking about that, you know, the scripture, mastery scripture verse six, right?
Where he says it's by small and simple things that great things brought to pass. And I remember teaching the MTC. This would have been in like 1993 or four or five. And I remember one of the elders was the elder King and the other elder, his last name began with a T they both had dark hair. I think they were going to Argentina, but we were doing a practice session and I was going around, you know, to each pair of, and it was all elders in that district.
I was going around to each pair of elders and listening to them. They were just learning Spanish. And I got to elder King and his companion and his companion. Looked at elder King and he was so like earnest and in Spanish, he said, this is what this first thing I heard, will you put a towel on your head?
I said, what in the world are you doing? Like, We were, they were going to teach this scripture and issue an invitation, I shut the whole thing down. And I said, what are you talking about? And he said, oh, he, he, um, L no door mirror and he, he can't sleep at night. And so I thought if he could put a towel on his head.
Then, then maybe he could fall asleep. And I thought, oh, you're so sweet. And, you know, Usted Poner, Tawaiya, and Tukabesa, you know, you put a towel on your head. And I mean, he was really bearing testimony of this and it was so sweet. And I just think like. It's just the small and simple things and then, like, All these miracles happen.
I remember driving Tammy, you were driving me to primary children's cause Jack was in the NICU there. The girls are in the NICU at LDS. I had just had my second bowel surgery. I mean, I didn't know which way was up and which way it was Christmas. I mean, it was rough. Oh, it was rough, hurt every part of me hurt.
I'd had this major. Second or third abdominal surgery and I got my kid in the NICU and you have a colostomy bag. Oh yeah. I had the club. Don't forget the colostomy bag. Nothing. Yeah. Nothing says low self esteem. Like I have that new accessory.
[01:05:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Brand new triplets. Colostomy bag, multiple surgeries and it's not looking good.
[01:05:51] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: It was not looking good. Every time the phone rang anyway. Right. I just, I thought like, I cannot do this. And in those days, it was, is my baby going to live or die? And so many of us have had to face that. And many times our babies do pass away. It's actually more now that knowing that Jack has a, has a purpose, because I don't know that anyone who observes Jack and school watching cat videos on YouTube all day, it thinks like that kid has a purpose.
I know how sweet he is and I know what a great heart he has, but like by all the measures of school, you know, they're thinking this kid's not even going to bag groceries, but the truth is he has a purpose.
[01:07:04] Jen Pua VanHaaften: And the truth is he's a warrior. Yeah, we both, we all saw him fight his way through all the things.
I mean, you, you name it, Jack fought it. And you know what?
[01:07:20] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I have an amazing therapist and Jean shout out to you. And she says, you don't want to deny your kids hard times. Right, because it gives them the skills and attributes that they need for the next hard thing, which may not be as hard as the thing they're going through.
It's not like they're, the next thing is even worse. It's just different hard. And like, they, they need that. And when we think about our own lives and the. The trials that we've gone through and what a blessing those have been to us, then I can rest a little bit more easy. I know that that it's the small and the simple things and that really, I do know from experience that great things will come to pass.
And I don't need to walk around being terrified.
[01:08:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just added when you said that to that verse by small and simple things, which are hard are great things brought to pass because the plates were hard, they were made of brass. Yeah. Whoa.
[01:08:35] Jen Pua VanHaaften: That's good.
[01:08:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And they were heavy. And they were heavy. Can we carry those around?
Sure. Small and simple things, which are also hard and heavy. Did Moroni have a carry on? Did he had a wheelbarrow? I mean, how's he getting all these around? Yep. So forget he had to keep them bright. There you go. Yeah. There's a lot of work that goes into the small and simple.
[01:08:58] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Absolutely.
[01:08:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I agree. I heard a lot of that.
Those plates were heavy. Yes, they were. So thank you, Holly. What a great way to teach that verse. Great story. Well, you,
[01:09:09] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: you all were part of it, but I love that Jack and, and Jen saved my babies in a fire. Once I got home from the NICU. No.
[01:09:19] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Yes,
[01:09:19] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I did.
[01:09:20] Jen Pua VanHaaften: She did. Oh my gosh. Those 3 babies, they have a purpose like no other.
[01:09:26] Tammy Uzelac Hall: They do. Indeed. They do. Okay. Well, thank you, Holly, for teaching us that in the next segment, we're going to hear from Jennifer Van Haften.
Segment 6
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[01:09:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, Jen, teach us. Here we go.
[01:09:49] Jen Pua VanHaaften: All right. Well, this is a little off topic, but I'm going to roll with it anyway. Anyway, so. We have the chance to go to Texas to see the eclipse, which was one of the coolest things that we've ever done. I
[01:10:03] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: can't believe you two are area 51ers. Like, you know, Tammy and her family went to the last one.
[01:10:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You bet we did. 10 million years would I drive in a crowd, but it is so worth it. Worth it. Totally worth it. Life changing. One of the coolest things we've ever done. I'll be a hundred the next time, but maybe we'll go.
[01:10:23] Jen Pua VanHaaften: We'll load you up. . Um, so when I was there I was trying to take in all the whole experience of the eclipse and I tried to take photos with my camera and the photos just came out terrible.
They did, they didn't do justice to the beauty. Mm-hmm, of the moment at all. And then just a couple weeks after that, we had the chance to see the Northern Lights here in Utah. And we drove up to Manoway to a campground and we saw the Northern Lights, which were also the most amazing thing. As a side note, I started to, uh, sing I Stand All Amazed, because I was just overwhelmed by the beauty of Northern Lights.
And my darling 14 year old son starts singing a TikTok song. And I'm like, and there we are. Okay, moving on. Welcome to Boyland. But I noticed that the northern lights with, with my naked eye, I could kind of see them. I could kind of see the lights, but I had to use my phone to see the real beauty of the lights.
And I thought that those 2, uh, Events up against each other were pretty interesting. One, I couldn't use my phone to see the actual beauty of the eclipse. And in the Northern lights, I needed my phone. And then in here in Alma 37, and through these chapters, we read about the Leah Hona that heavenly father provides to them to lead the way.
So that is in, I think 38, they talk, he talks about the Leah Hona and back in chapter 37, verse 20. Three, he also says, and the Lord said, I will prepare into my servant. I can't say that name stone, which I'll shine forth in the darkness. And I'm looking up that footnote. I realized that that stone is the scriptures.
And I started thinking about. All the tools that heavenly father gives us to find the truth, right? So the scriptures, that's a tool, beautiful music, a joyful noise into the Lord. That's a tool. The act of giving service. That's a tool. The Lord knows that in our natural state, we don't always see things clearly as much as we want to, as much as I want to say, Oh, no, I got this.
I can see exactly what I need to do. And I know exactly how to get there. Truth be told, I really don't. I really need the tools and the blessings that the Lord gives us to help me see both truth and beauty and to find my way. So whether that's the iron rod or it's the liahona, Or it's the tree of life or it's beautiful worship music, or it's the act of praying.
Those are tools and instruments that we can use to see the truth that our heavenly father wants us to see. And so as I've gone through these, you know, this time after seeing both the eclipse and the Northern lights, I love that it constantly reminds me to make sure that I'm seeing with the correct eyes.
That I need to see so that I can see what heavenly father wants me to know so that I can see what heavenly father wants me to do. And I can learn those things that he wants me to learn. And I'm so grateful. The world is so beautiful. Like those, both those events were astounding and breathtaking and life altering in a lot of ways.
And so, um, I really appreciated all the different tools that are listed. In these chapters, because at the end of the day, these chapters are a love letter from a father to a son, and they're a love letter to us from our father. And so whatever we can learn, whatever we can get from small and simple things, whatever tool he's given us, that's a gift.
And I'm so grateful for them.
[01:14:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, Jen, I like how you called these a love letter from father to son. In fact, will you read Alma 37 verse 47 because I love the way he ends his love letter to his son Helaman.
[01:14:47] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Yeah, this is good. So verse 47, and now my son, see that you take care of these sacred things. Yay.
See that you look to God and live, go into this people and declare thy word and be sober. My son farewell. And I love, he says it a couple of times, look to God and live. And that really is like, that's the best advice ever.
[01:15:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It really is. Yeah. Best way to answer is always Jesus. Oh, I like that. The answer is always Jesus.
Oh, thank you, Jen. Thank you. Jen and HB. That was fantastic. Jen.
[01:15:26] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: I just, you're such a good, you always have been in the 30 years I've known you. You're such a good noticer. Oh,
[01:15:37] Jen Pua VanHaaften: well, that's because I have been blessed and surrounded by people who are the best examples. And the strongest of women. I love my tribe girls, and I'm so grateful you're part of my tribe.
Ditto.
[01:15:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. I love that. I can say we've been in this together for 30 years. We've known each other. Okay. Well, normally we ask our guests to think of a takeaway, but we're not doing that because this is the summer of joy and we are going to focus on James chapter one, verse two, which says to count it all joy when you are going through severe trial and tribulations.
And so I'm asking all my guests this summer. To just share with us your advice or tip. How do you do that? How do you count it joy when you are in the thick of trials?
[01:16:22] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Okay. So I'm a word, a word person. So James says, you know, to count it all joy when you fall into diverse trials. And so I looked it up and it can, it can mean several sundry various in kind.
It does say, when it says several, more than one, but not a great deal. And that helps me have perspective, but also it says turning in different directions. And like, we just have to, I just have to think back about all the beauty that has come from what seemed like ashes at the time. And, and frankly, it didn't even seem like it, it was ashes.
You know, Isaiah says that it really is going to work out. I don't think I need to like do a jig that. Everything's really hard right now or that Jen does right now, but that like, this is digging out like Kalal Jibran writes in the prophet, the, the sorrow that you feel now is digging out a well that will be filled with joy.
And so we can only have these wells of joy if we, if we have the sorrow. So some summer of joy, I embrace you reluctantly, but embrace you. I will.
[01:18:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, we need the summer of joy because a lot of us got wells. We're ready to have that filled ready for our wells to be filled with joy. Awesome. Thank you. HP.
What about you, Jen?
[01:18:17] Jen Pua VanHaaften: Um, I find my joy in my people. I find my joy in my children and my dear, dear friends and my sisters and my parents. And I have a beautiful extended family and I go to them for words and support and love. And I count them among my greatest blessings. And I'm so grateful that Heavenly Father thought to send us down for this journey surrounded by people who are there to help us.
And you know, your tribe is whatever you need your tribe to be. And, and I have been blessed with a good one. And so I, I, oh man, I count on those people and those words and that love and support, and that's where I find my joy.
[01:19:13] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: You know, people ask me, do you have sisters? And I don't, but I always say yes.
Absolutely. Because it can be 10 months since I've talked to you and it's like, it's been 13 seconds. Right. Yeah. Because Jen and I saw each other every hour for 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. Nine months out of the year, Tam, you and I live together and though, like, I look back on those times, it was, I have so much joy in those memories. I have so much joy and gratitude and i, I sit here now and I stand all amazed, right? I got the northern lights right here on my screen.
[01:20:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So true. I agree. I will. Amen. That sister.
[01:20:10] Holly Butterfield Rawlings: Amen.
[01:20:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, ladies. Oh, I love you both. Thank you. I love you. Thank you, man. That was such a great discussion. You can obviously see why I love them so much and they are master teachers that was so good.
Okay. Listen, do this, join us on Facebook or Instagram and you need to go follow us. And if you've never done it, just go do it. It is so fun because then you can just share things you're learning throughout the week. And then at the end of the week on a Saturday, we are going to post a question from this episode.
So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. And go there anyway, it's where we're going to have links to the references, a transcript of this whole discussion.
So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today are so incredibly fabulous study group participants were Jen Pua VanHaaften and H. B. Holly Butterfield Rawlings. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.
com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And oh my goodness, friends, please remember, oh, please remember that God will deliver you because you are his favorite.