The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: The late Lamar E. Girard, a former professor of church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University, wrote this about today's scripture block, quote, in a vision, Nephi saw the book of Mormon would eventually come forth in the latter days for the benefit of our modern generation. Keeping this in mind.

Why would the Lord direct Mormon to devote an entire chapter to the details of the teachings and final destiny of Korihor when so many other things were written on the original plates? Unquote. Well, we are going to answer that as we read and study two chapters this week. In Alma chapters 30 through 31.

And I am so excited for you to hear what we've discovered. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week. And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can.

Best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend, Candace McDermott and Kylie McDermott from Idaho. Hi friends. I'm so glad I got to meet you. Now. Another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different.

And today is a little bit different. We have two newbies. They've never been on the podcast, but they're long time listeners. We have Linda Cook and Diane Roberts. Hi friends.

[00:01:25] Linda Cook: Hi, Tammy.

[00:01:27] Diane Roberts: Hi, Tammy.

[00:01:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, okay. Now here's how I know these two. So fun fact about me. I got a new stake calling several months ago and I am, Oh, I wish I could remember what the main title is. Cause the main title does not even make sense, but suffice it to say I'm the Institute teacher. And we have a big old steak Institute class. It's actually two steaks that are involved. And some of you listening have come and I love you. It is so much fun. And these two women have been coming to my Institute class.

So we met through Institute and became friends. They told me they were listeners and then they came to my house with a platter of cheese. How great is that? I loved you too that day when you came over with cheese. That was so great.

[00:02:07] Diane Roberts: It was fun to be with you. It was fun. And you can't forget the Milk Duds and the Diet Coke.

[00:02:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, please. And not just a few Milk Duds. Uh, yeah, I think it's pretty awesome because Diane brought me a bag of Milk Duds. We're still eating them, FYI. You're the best. Both of you. Now, how do you two know each other? Because this is a fun story.

[00:02:25] Linda Cook: Uh, Diane and I have known each other We've known each other for probably 25 ish years.

We were in the same ward and, um, Diane moved in a few years after me and we actually served in Young Women's Together and that's how we became friends. And we've raised our kids together and she's my kid's second mom and has been there every step along the way. Especially when I was not around. Um, when I was in Brazil for three years, she was mom to my kids.

[00:03:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Why were you in Brazil, Linda?

[00:03:06] Linda Cook: My husband and I served a mission in San Paolo, North in Brazil. And it was, I would probably say some of the best times of our lives.

[00:03:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I think that's awesome. Diane, how do you give me your story? What's your take on Linda?

[00:03:23] Diane Roberts: Well, yes, we served in Young Women's, but she also was the, my wedding planner for my daughter Alicia's wedding.

And we were sitting out on kind of the deck of our backyard going through some details. And if the way I remember it, either one of my kids or someone from the porch inside the house said Linda Diane. And so we share the same first and middle name. So she is Linda Diane Cook. I am Linda Diane Roberts.

And so I think it's pretty rare that you find two cherished friends that share the first name. So. It's awesome. Oh,

[00:04:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think that is the coolest when you guys told me that because Linda Diane goes by Linda and Linda Diane Roberts goes by Diane, her middle name. So yes. Yeah. But I'm not going to call you those and we will not confuse them.

So Linda will be Linda. Diane will be Diane.

[00:04:19] Diane Roberts: And we look nothing alike. I was always in trouble if it was Linda Diane.

[00:04:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think that's so fun. We are going to have a great discussion. And when I asked these ladies to be on the podcast, I wish you could have been there. It was like a cartoon where the eyes bug out of your head, uh, just like going, and they were like, what?

No, we would never. And I have convinced them. And I just think this is going to be such a great discussion today because listen to me, these two women are rooted in faith. These two women have paid the price for their testimony, and I know that about them. And so I think today's story, it's not a coincidence that they were asked to come and talk about these two chapters, but they're just chock full of so much goodness.

So if you want to know more about my guests and you want to read their bios and see their pictures, go find that at our show notes, which are at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. And now grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with. And let's dig into Alma chapters 30 and 31. Okay, you two lovelies tell me, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you studied these chapters?

[00:05:19] Linda Cook: My takeaway, my favorite would be my, the scripture in Alma 31 verse five. And now as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just. Yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them.

Therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God. And, um, as I read that, um, I looked up the word try and try is, um, to draw, to press, to urge, to seek, to strive, to obtain, to use effort, to stretch forward, to examine, to prove by experiment. And I thought that's what, That's what I loved is that that's what I try and do all the time is to try to seek or to strive to obtain the virtue or the power of the Word of God.

And, you know, when you dissect that little phrase, Um, I read it like to seek the power of the word of Jesus Christ or the, of Jesus Christ of God. And I just love that because words matter. They matter a lot. And I think in today's age with the social media, you know, it used to be. Actions speak louder than words.

And I think now that's changed because words are so easy to come by with social media and they're so easy to be, um, misconstrued or taken a different way or used to cause pain and, um, and the word of God does everything but that. If I can just share a quick story, yesterday I was talking to one of my friends.

And, um, we were talking about a, uh, I went to a women's conference and she had said that her daughters were all up in arms about one of the speeches that one of the, uh, General leaders had talked about, and she said that they were so disappointed and they were so upset about the message. And I said, tell them to go read the message.

That is not at all what was said. And they had, I said, I can guarantee what they're taking this from is a social media clip. And I said, you got to go back and read all of that talk because it's nothing like what you said. And, um, She had messaged me later and she said, you're so right. They had gone off what they'd heard on social media and had taken it.

And it was not at all what the message was intended or how it was delivered. And so I think words matter.

[00:08:26] Diane Roberts: I totally agree. There is such great power in our words and you know, in our recent general conference in April, the talk words matter. It really hit home to me. And I think We often need to guard our words, guard our words, and like you said, Linda, our actions used to be, but now it is so important to, to be mindful of the words that we use.

So the scripture that I pulled out and that really spoke to me was in Alma 30, 20, and it says, But behold, they were more wise than many of the Nephites. And I thought about why were they wise, what caused them to be wise. And it wasn't just the men or the women. I think it was a society, a community that was wise.

And for me, it boils down to two words, obedience and choices. My family will recognize the saying that we have in our home, that we're free to make our own choices. But we're not free to choose the consequences and I think that's very key in these two verses or these two chapters that we read and Studied that if we are obedient Because of the choices that we make then we're going to have success We're going to have the peace and the hope and the faith that we need to Find happiness.

[00:10:15] Linda Cook: I love that and I but I think it's so funny about that is You You can tell right there that Korihor is not the smartest man. Who would want to take on the people of Ammon? I mean, is there a stronger, more righteous people?

[00:10:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No. Right? They're amazing. Well, I love so much what both of you shared. I have, my, my thoughts are swirling.

I mean, just the idea. But going back to chapter 31, I marked it when you taught us about the word tribe, but to try the virtue of the word of God. And we know that the word, like you said, is Christ. And so it's the power of Christ to try that and connecting it to your thoughts, Diane, when you talked about, they were more wise because of obedience and choices.

And then I'm going to connect it back now to what you said, Linda, because If any of you are wondering what she's talking about and what talk, I think it's important for us to just acknowledge it. It's sister Camille Johnson's talk from women's conference, and there was a social media post about it, and it received probably more comment, normally a hundred comments is what a church Post gets on Instagram and now we're, I think it's up over 2000 comments that people have made.

And if you just read the social media blurb and then you read everybody's comments, it is so easy to see how this story of Korihor happens. It is so easy just to see how, when you have a limited amount of knowledge, because when I read those comments, it's interesting because I have the same experience that you gave.

Um, cause you're just getting a blurb and you're right when you read the talk and you read it in context, it changes everything. And I do think words matter and they're super powerful, but again, it just goes back to obedience and choices and you have the choice to either believe everything you're reading there or go straight to the source.

Go straight to the source. Go to this woman whose entire talk is Christ centered, and that's what's powerful. It's Christ centered and Alma 30 Korihor's traditions are not at all. Isn't that interesting? And so I want us to kind of keep this thoughts. I'm grateful that you brought that up. I think it's definitely sort of an elephant in the room that we need to talk about and we haven't yet.

And so thank you for bringing that up and having us just take a breather. Always go to the source. Thanks. And, and maybe just to even pray, like, what was the purpose of this talk? Cause I thought it was masterfully given and I am grateful for her example. I think it's wonderful. So thank you both of you for sharing that it, that was great.

It's exactly what we wanted that the Holy Ghost taught you. And then we were then taught because of that. So in the next segment, then I'm going to ask you the question, why do you think Mormon included this story? And then we're going to dig into the story. We'll do that next.

Segment 2

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[00:13:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, ladies, my first question for you then is this. Why do you think Mormon included the story of Korihor in the Book of Mormon?

[00:13:20] Diane Roberts: We learn from the past. We learn from our friends, our neighbors. We learn, we're taught by what we see that comes before us. And sometimes that's a hard way to learn. Sometimes it's an easy way to learn.

But I think as we learn, then we can better ourselves. and be ready to teach the correct doctrine and principles.

[00:13:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Good one.

[00:13:53] Linda Cook: I think that's, I, I, I love what Diane said. , you know, there has to be opposition in all things. And for us to learn, , how to see and what to look for, , when things come about, when we get the opposition of our beliefs, , we learn just how skillfully they are delivered and yet how truth wins.

And I, and I really, I, I don't probably shouldn't say this, but I love that what we see happens to Korihor. He does not prevail. God prevails and Korihor's life ends in a horrible way. And Alma, I think, received strength from bearing that testimony and moves on to. Continue to preach the word of God.

[00:14:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Those are awesome answers.

And you didn't even know this, but that's actually part of our discussion today is learning from the past to understand correct doctrines and principles and to see the opposition. So I agree with you. I think that is awesome. So we're just going to start then with Diane's comment, Diane, you said that we can learn from the past in order to see.

the true, correct doctrines and principles. So just thinking about the past right now, I did ask you this fun question and I was just curious in your life, has there ever been a tradition that's been handed down through all the generations of your family that you just do because you do and no one can tell you why?

[00:15:22] Diane Roberts: Absolutely. And Oh, this one is big. Um, so I am a seamstress. I love to quilt. I love to piece just simple things and make them into beautiful quilts. They're not. You know, over the top, but we recently had two babies and a wedding in our family and tradition says that a baby quilt and a wedding quilt is made.

And my grandmother did it, my mother did it, and I'm the generation, the individual that has picked up that tradition. And there is a lot of flack, a lot of why, why do you do this? Cause it is a lot of time. It is a lot of effort. And sometimes you wonder, is it appreciated or is it used? But I come back to, this is what is important.

This is what my mom would do. This is what my grandma would do. And I want to carry on that tradition and honor them by doing that.

[00:16:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Neat. That's a really great tradition. Amen. So you always make a baby quilt and you always make a graduation quilt or a wedding quilt. Did you say baby and wedding?

[00:16:43] Diane Roberts: Correct.

[00:16:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's a neat tradition. Okay. What about you, Linda?

[00:16:48] Linda Cook: Um, I would think, um, a family tradition. Mine is nothing so eloquent as what Diane does. But as I was thinking about something that has gone down from generation to generation. You have Sunday on Monday. I grew up with laundry on Monday. My grandmother did laundry on Mondays, my mother does laundry on Mondays, I do laundry on Mondays, my daughter does laundry on Mondays.

It's just how it is. And as I was thinking about this, thinking about, you know, why on earth is it like that? And then I thought about my grandmother was, um, a beautician. And as The hair industry, Monday, they're closed. Monday's their day off. And so she always did her cleaning and her laundry on Monday.

And. Two generations later, my daughter is a hairstylist and that's what she does. She does laundry on Monday. She does her cleaning on Monday. And so those two make sense. And I think my mother and I just caught in the mid got caught in the middle of that, but it is just something that has become how we do things.

[00:18:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hey, that's a great tradition. I like that. I do my laundry on Mondays too, but just because I do no tradition. At all. But there's a tradition in my family, uh, Christmas, Christmas is always on the 24th. And that's our tradition going back to whenever Christmas start, you know, like that's never been an issue for debate until my mom was working for TWA back in the day as a flight stewardess and we couldn't celebrate Christmas on Christmas day.

We had to wait till she got back cause she had to work over Christmas. So I remember the first time we had Christmas on the 26th and I was like, We can't do this, but we did it. We broke tradition. It was just a tradition that we did. And my, uh, an M sister, Emily Bell Freeman is that way. Her family's so busy, nobody can get together around Christmas time, so they celebrate Christmas in March.

And I just think sometimes it's fun when you have these traditions and then you break them. And this idea that we have these traditions that we don't know why, and sometimes we do know why, and they're awesome traditions. This basis or foundation of the word tradition, Korihor uses a lot as he's talking to the people.

In fact, if you go, let's turn right now to Alma chapter 30. And grab any color you want. And we're going to circle the word tradition or foolish traditions. And I'm going to give you the verses that they're in. Here we go. We have a man by the name of Korihor and he comes onto the scene and he's speaking to the people and telling them that what they're doing is wrong.

And if we go, we're going to start in verse six and Linda, can you read verse six for us? We can just be introduced to him and then we'll circle the word tradition.

[00:19:43] Linda Cook: You bet. But it came to pass in the latter end of the 17th year. There came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was Antichrist. For, he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies, which had been spoken by the prophets concerning the coming of Christ.

And then skip down to verse 12 and read verse 12. And this antichrist, whose name was Khor and the law could have no hold upon him. Okay.

[00:20:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: There's his name and he's called an antichrist twice. We read that term. Now, two things that you want to put in your scriptures about this title that's given to him, because there are two definitions for the word antichrist.

So first of all, the first definition, which is going to be found in the guide to the scriptures, the word antichrist is this. It can refer to quote anyone. or anything that counterfeits the true gospel plan of salvation and that openly or secretly opposes Christ. The second definition of anti Christ is what we learned last week as we discussed the anti Nephi Lehi's from our guest, Steve, who quoted an article from Hugh Nibley that anti can also mean together with, or in place of.

So this is really fascinating because Antichrist Korihor is twofold right here. He is literally against Christ because that's what it tells us in verse six, he would preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken. So that makes him against Christ. But how is he in place of Christ?

Let's put this reference right next to the word anti in verse six, or you could put it in verse 12, but this is where we find he's in place of Christ. If you put Alma chapter 30. And you just want to write verse 53 and inverse 53 as Korihor explaining why he did all the terrible things he did and why he preached against Christ in verse 53.

Look what he says. And Diane, will you read that for us?

[00:21:47] Diane Roberts: But behold, the devil have deceived me for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel and said unto me, go and reclaim this people for they have gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me, there is no God. And Yay, and he taught me that which I should say, and I have taught his words, and have taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind.

And I taught them even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true. And for this cause I withstood the truth. Even until I have brought this great curse upon me.

[00:22:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Go back to verse 53 and I want you to circle the word. Reclaim, go and reclaim this people reclaim.

That's Christ's job. It's not anybody else's. So Korihor is trying to take the place of not just only Christ, but he's trying to replace Christ's gospel. So this is what Korihor tries to do, and this is what Satan is doing today. In fact, Linda, will you please read this quote from sister Julie B. Beck about this very idea of Korihor twisting or trying to replace Christ's gospel today.

[00:23:04] Linda Cook: Sure. Korihor was an antichrist. Antichrist is anti family. Any doctrine or principle our youth hear from the world that is anti family is also antichrist. It's that clear. If our youth cease to believe in the righteous traditions of their fathers, if our youth don't understand their part in the plan, they could be led away.

[00:23:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you for reading that. And I think as we hear that, it just registers with all of us, you know, that is exactly what Satan is doing and he's taking the gospel and twisting it in such a way. So in the next segment, we are going to take a look at the role that righteous traditions played in this story and how Korihor twist those traditions and how it happens in our own life as well.

Segment 3

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[00:23:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So let's circle the word traditions. Here we go. It is in verse 14. He says, behold, these things which he called prophecies, which he say are handed down by holy prophets. Behold, they are foolish traditions. Circle it there. Verse 16. It says, you look forward and say that you see a remission of your sins, but behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind.

And this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers. Okay. Next tradition. Turn the page. We're going to find it in verse 23. And we have right here in the high priest name was Gidona and Korihor said unto him, because I do not teach the foolish traditions of your fathers again in verse 27.

And thus she lead away this people after the foolish traditions. And then we have the word traditions in verse 28, right in the middle of the verse and then go down to verse 31. Now he calls them silly traditions of their fathers. Wasn't that interesting? Foolish, silly, all those words. And then you're going to find this again in the story of the Zoramites in chapter 31.

And I just want you to be aware of this. You'll find it in verse 16. So go to Alma chapter 31, verse 16. And circle the word tradition. It's the third line down and you'll find it again in verse 17 in the middle of the verse foolish traditions. And then you'll find it again in verse 22. I just want you to kind of be thinking of this idea of traditions then as we discuss the story about Korihor.

And then we'll talk about it later, Zoramites, because I think sometimes we have traditions that are a little bit silly. Here's the tradition. It's not even silly. It's just a tradition, which I didn't even realize was my whole life. I grew up fast and testimony meeting where the boys would have the microphones and they'd bring them around to people who didn't want to come up to the podium.

I didn't realize that was a tradition. I thought that was doctrine when now there are words that they trade with the young men and the young women and some young women that are in charge of passing the microphone around on a fast Sunday. Isn't that neat? I know of one specific word that does that and that's just our tradition.

It's not doctrine. So how do we differ between tradition and doctrine? So here's what I want to show you. And these are going to be in our show notes, but there are nine doctrinal beliefs that our church has that will never change. This has nothing to do with holding a microphone or how we do a lot of our daily everyday stuff.

And ladies, I want you to see these. So these are nine doctrinal truths that have never changed and will never change. And I want us to be aware of these. So let's write them down in our scripture journal or on a piece of paper, wherever you have them. And ladies, if you'll write these down, we're going to come back to them throughout our discussion.

And I'm just going to read them. Here we go. The first doctrinal truth is the Godhead, the father, the son, the Holy Ghost. The second doctrinal truth is the plan of salvation and the reality that we can live beyond this life. And it's a plan of happiness and a plan of redemption and all the good things.

The third doctrinal truth is the atonement of Jesus Christ. Israel number four has to do with apostasy and restoration. Number five is prophets and revelation. The sixth doctrinal truth is priesthood and priesthood keys. They exist and it is real. The seventh doctrinal truth is ordinances and covenants and how important those are to our salvation.

Number eight is marriage and family. And the ninth truth is the commandments. And that we have to keep them. Now I want us to have these nine doctrinal truth listed right here, because oftentimes we talk about and, and Korihor going to say, Oh, you only believe in any of this stuff because it's a tradition.

And we've talked about this in the past with our guests, Jalynn and Aaliyah and Aaliyah, the therapist talked about how sometimes the way we view the gospel of Jesus Christ is based on tradition. And that's, and we, and our kids believe just what we believed and we, they believe it because we told them to believe it.

And Aaliyah challenged us to move past the idea of doing because you were told, but doing because you believe, or you have a testimony in it. So we're going to read this quote from Dallin H. Oaks in 2004 general conference. And the title is called Be Not Deceived. And here's what he has to say about this idea of moving from traditional beliefs to actually believing.

And so Diane, can you read this for us?

[00:28:22] Diane Roberts: It is not enough to know that God lives, that Jesus Christ is our savior. And if the gospel is true, we must take the high road by acting upon that knowledge. It is not enough to know that President Gordon B. Hinckley is God's prophet. We must put his teachings to work in our lives.

It is not enough to have a calling. We must fulfill our responsibilities. The things taught in this conference are not just to fill our minds. They are to motivate and guide our actions.

[00:28:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So I have a question for you, ladies. I want to know, based from that quote, I want to know how you have come to know any one of these doctrinal truths that we wrote, any one of those nine, how have you come to know that they're true?

How have you moved past believing what your parents taught you into knowing that they're true?

[00:29:17] Linda Cook: Oh, you know, there was a time when, um, my daughter had took some real questions Um, with the gospel and kind of started to step away from, you know, the values and teachings that, that we taught, or, you know, taught our kids our whole lives.

And it was really difficult. Um, some of the choices that she made were really hard for me to understand why. And. She's always, was always so good and so obedient. And so this really kind of blindsided me. And for a few months, I just didn't know what to do. And I decided that if there's anybody that could help me understand this or get through this, it would be Jesus Christ and the atonement.

I've always known that the atonement was there to take away my sins. And to, to take away the things that I do wrong and to make me feel better that way. But I, I knew there was an enabling power, and that's exactly what I needed. And so for about a year, I dove in to study everything that I could get my hands on about the atonement so that I could understand and have that enabling power.

And um, that's really between that and, and many, I mean, it was sometimes daily times that I would go to the temple and spend time in the temple. It was that study of the atonement and my time in the temple. That got me through that and made me understand the power of that enabling power that we get from the atonement and that I really could give him my burdens and he would make them lighter.

And yeah, there was, it was hard and there was some, you know, hard choices that had to be made. And, um, it was through that time and studying that I came to know and understand. Um, more, I don't know if I will ever in this life understand really the full breadth of the atonement, but it sure helped me get through that time and to just be able to continue to love and help and, and share my testimony in the ways that I could, that would be received in the right way and not as judgment.

And that, that's, that made all the difference. And we still, to this day, have an amazing relationship because I think, um, that atonement. That I came to understand just a little bit more.

[00:32:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, Linda, thank you for sharing that personal experience because when you kept using the word enabling, immediately my question was going to be to you, well, give me an example of what that looks like. Like, what do you mean? How did it, what did it enable you to do? And then you beautifully told us it helped you to love her.

It helped you to help her. It helped carry your burden, but I loved when you said it helped you to have no judgment. That was powerful. I mean, that talk about enabling it and enabled you emboldened you all of that to do those. So I appreciate you sharing that and your testimony of the atonement looks fantastic.

Thank you. What about you, Diane?

[00:32:58] Diane Roberts: I appreciate your focus on the doctrine. And I know this is a podcast, but I'm going to show you online as we're on this. this sits in the front of my scriptures . It's the doctrines of Christ and it's, it sits in multiple places. Every time I can sit at a table or in my car, but it wasn't until I was serving in a stake leadership position and being taught by elder Bednar. That I really felt the urge and the push to one, know the doctrines.

What were they? I was born and raised in the church. I knew the doctrines, but I didn't know them in the order and the importance. So it was shortly after that tutoring and teaching. By Elder Bednard that I made a great effort to know the doctrines of Christ. And so every time I'm in a lesson or in a class, an institute, um, I take an opportunity to look and be taught, what's the doctrine here?

Do I understand the doctrine? And you know, I'm reminded of, I think, is it Elder Packer that talks about true doctrine? Um, I wrote it down, it says true doctrine understood changes attitudes and behavior. The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study will improve behavior.

Again, just a quote that I have several places that reminds me to stay grounded in the doctrines. If we do that. And we don't deviate if we don't go to many different directions, you can't go wrong because the doctrines of Christ are solid, they're not going to change. It's what I love that one of the best things about the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[00:35:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You're right. Like these things never change. And it takes me back to the thing the spirit taught you. When you go back to that verse and it says the people of Ammon were wise. This is why they had been recently converted and they knew the doctrine and they could not be dissuade. They could not be tricked at all.

So this is going to be an awesome discussion because we're going to use this list. So make sure you have it with you. Make sure it's written down. In the next segment, we are going to take this doctrine and we're going to compare it to the teachings of Korihor. So we'll do that next.

Segment 4

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[00:35:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. This is fun. I brought for you. Okay. I want you to see if you can tell the difference, which is the real 5 bill and which is the fake 5 bill. Are you ready? I'm going to hold these up and just want you to tell which one is real and which one is fake. Here we go. Okay.

[00:36:19] Diane Roberts: What do you think? Oh, that's hard, Tammy.

[00:36:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I know, right?

[00:36:25] Diane Roberts: I'm going to guess the one in your right hand is the real one.

[00:36:30] Linda Cook: That would be my guess too, because I don't recognize the symbol on the other one.

[00:36:37] Diane Roberts: yeah. The stamps.

[00:36:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, I like how you look. Verifications. Hey. Look at you looking for very clear, like the symbol verification and the other one looks you. Well, the real one is used because it is used. Um, awesome. Let me show you the backside. How do those compare?

[00:36:56] Linda Cook: Oh yeah. Close.

[00:36:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Pretty close, isn't it? Yeah. This is the real one. Yeah. This is the fake one. Okay. It's really subtle, isn't it? So this money, this fake money I have right here, you can buy. My daughter bought it cause she did a summer camp for kids and she taught him about money and she bought this online.

And I cannot tell you how many times I've gone in the basement and seen these laying around thinking 5, Oh, it's fake. I get tricked all the time. One time I found 100 one and my heart skipped a beat. I've never been happier and sadder and more quick in 32nd time. So we have this right here. This is the real one.

Nice work, ladies. Here's a more obvious one. I was gonna do this one first. Which one's real, which one's fake?

[00:37:37] Linda Cook: Yeah, no, there's not even

[00:37:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: monopoly money's easy to spot, isn't it? Yeah, so I thought I'd try the five dollar one Not even close Okay, I want us to take this idea because I think you answered that perfectly you look for it very specific I like how you said Diane it's hard to tell because they are so closely related But then as you did a careful study you noticed just little tiny things that were slightly different, which is what that money does.

And we're going to take that idea and we're going to go into Alma chapter 30 and we are going to study. All of the tricky deceptions that Korihor came up with, but here's how we're going to do it. Now I had you mark everything that Korihor said that was deceptive, but as you do, what I'd like us to do is then take these nine doctrinal truths.

And if there's a doctrinal truth here that he teaches against, we're going to put the number next to that truth of what we know is true. So for instance, I'll just go with the first one, go to verse 12 and we've already read this, but at the end of verse 12 it says, He began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ.

So that is absolute faults. And I put number one and doctrinal truth. Number three, Godhead atonement of Jesus Christ. That's what stood out to me. Okay. So that's how we're going to do this. So ladies hit it. We can take turns and go back and forth. What are some things he falsely taught and what does it go against?

[00:39:00] Diane Roberts: Well, I'll take first number six. He began to preach unto the people against the prophets. So, that truly goes against doctrine number six, which speaks of priesthood and priesthood keys, but also number five, prophets and revelation and how key that is to modern day revelation. What a better way to, to combat false doctrine is to use true doctrine.

[00:39:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Great one. Right out of the gates. Five and six. Keep going. What do you got? Linda, you're up.

[00:39:36] Linda Cook: Oh, I'll just go to number, uh, verse 13. No man can know of anything which is to come. And I think that is for sure number five of Revelation. Yes. And I think that's a plan of salvation, too. If we know the plan of salvation, we know what's going to come.

[00:39:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's so cool. Good job. I put two and I put five. I agree with you on five. In fact, I even underlined, no man can know of anything which is to come. I wrote false, um, this by the spirit we can know. And then you said number five, I hadn't numbered him yet, so I'm so grateful you brought that up. It is number five for sure.

[00:40:13] Diane Roberts: I have written down 18 telling them that when man was dead. There was no end thereof and

[00:40:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: okay, just read 18 because there's so many read the whole verse for us.

[00:40:26] Diane Roberts: All right. Okay. And thus he did preach unto them, leading away the hearts of many, causing them to lift up their heads in their wickedness, yea, leading away many women and also men to commit whoredoms, telling them that when a man was dead, that was the end thereof.

That lays out the plan of salvation. Number two.

[00:40:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Number two. I put, I put like, I have four numbers next to number 18. I put number two. What else could it be?

[00:40:56] Diane Roberts: Well, four apostasy. Some of these things lead apostasy was key to the downfall of these people. We may have seen the destruction of Khorhor. But his teachings continued for a long time.

That apostasy continued.

[00:41:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I was struck with 17 and 18 combined because I put number seven, which is ordinances and covenants. You're shaking your head. How come Linda?

[00:41:28] Linda Cook: Well, because I thought, I thought the same thing, but I also threw number nine in there because you know, when you, you commit whoredoms, you, that is totally against the commandments.

And, I mean, 17 is chock full of them, I think. Read 17 for us. And many more such things did he say unto them, telling them that there could be no atonement made for the sins of man. That's number three. But every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature. Therefore, every man prospered according to his genius.

And that every man conquered according to his strength. And whatsoever a man did, there was no crime.

So I thought, you know, um, again, goes back to the plan of salvation. We know that whatever choices we make, we will go to certain places, um, that, you know, the commandments again, and of course the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oh, so good.

[00:42:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Good ones. So I have a follow up question then. We gave everyone, this is such a fun activity to do, and I highly encourage doing it, especially if you're teaching seminary or institute kids, to put on the board columns and let people just run up and write numbers next to these verses, see what they can come up with and connect this idea of false versus true truths.

But my question for you is, what do you think of all these false messages that we just discussed? What ones do you think the adversary is using today to deceive us? Is there one that seems the most common or familiar?

[00:43:13] Linda Cook: Whatsoever man did was no crime. I think that and, and every man, you know, do what you want because it doesn't really matter.

[00:43:25] Diane Roberts: And we see it so prevalent in the, in the, sorry, Linda, I think we see it so much in the books, the movies, the television shows, um, maybe some in some of the classrooms, uh, the video games, that the value and the core, importance of family and marriage and just a general disregard for the commandments. It's all around us.

[00:43:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In fact, there's a phrase, my daughter said it to me just a couple of weeks ago, and I hadn't heard it in a long time, but she, there's two phrases that, that she and her friends use. The first one that she said was YOLO. You only live once. And I was like, people are still saying that. Like, that's ridiculous.

Okay. Whatever YOLO. But then they say this phrase, we'll do it for the plot. That's what you just got to do it for the plot. Mom, do whatever you want. So it has a great story and it will write out really well. And so that's kind of the saying, like, do it for the plot. And I think right here, that is exactly what that verse is telling me.

Like, it doesn't matter. Whatever you do is not a crime. Um, And that every man prospered according to his genius, according to his strength. And so I think maybe a little bit of that, like, ah, just do whatever. And I know they don't really mean do whatever, do it for the plot, but it just made me think of that saying, like, they just like to do it for the story and how cool that be to tell.

And none of it really matters in the end. So that, that kind of hit me there. Any other thoughts? Keep going. What you think he's using to trick us today?

[00:44:53] Linda Cook: Well, I think words, period. It depends on how you phrase things and how things are said because words, words can be tricky and sometimes when you say something as you, you, you hear the voice and then you, you write the same phrase.

You can interpret that however you want, and I think that if you're not careful, and, and I always say, you find what you're looking for. If you're going to look for something to offend you, you'll find it. If you're looking for something to inspire you, you'll find it. And so I think that we have to be very careful in what we say because the way that things can be interpreted so easily.

[00:45:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Very awesome. Thank you.

[00:45:44] Diane Roberts: And Satan's intentionally, I love the word intent. Because it can be used for good or for evil, but he's intentionally teaching us against our Savior Jesus Christ. He's given just enough truth here or there and counterfeited in ways that it is and it can be enticing at times. But then if we are intent on holding fast to these doctrines, then we're going to have the faith, the ability, the strength, the wisdom to know when it is Satan that is deceiving.

[00:46:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. And what's so cool in this story is that Alma knew that. And he was very, very keen to that knowledge. And so in the next segment, we're going to find out what happens when he gets taken to Alma and the discussion that they have. And we'll do that next.

Segment 5

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[00:46:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So the story does not end well for Korihor. He gets taken to Alma and they have a discussion and Korihor actually has the audacity to ask for a sign. We know what happens with this. And guess what? Korihor gets it. He's struck. dumb. Which means he's unable to speak. And then Korihor goes from house to house, begging for food and for support.

He's completely unable to receive help. And he even goes among the dissenting Zoramites. In Alma chapter 30 verse 50, we want to highlight that because it says he was run upon and trodden down even until he was dead. That's it. That's the end of Korihor. Now the spiritual condition of the Zoramites. Let's go back to the Zoramites because it's the Zoramites that caused Alma the Younger's heart to absolutely sicken.

It really says that in Alma chapter 31 verse one. So he, along with his sons, except for Helaman, which we're going to talk more about in a later episode, as well as a few of his friends, they decide to serve a mission among these people and what they found shocked them. Linda, will you please read for us in Alma chapter 31, verses 19 through 22?

[00:48:04] Diane Roberts: okay, and now it came to pass that after Alma and his brethren and his sons had heard these prayers, they were astonished beyond all measure. For behold, every man did go forth and offer up these same prayers. The place was called by them Rambamtam, which being interpreted is the holy stand. Now from this stand they did offer up every man.

The self same prayer unto God, thanking their God that they were chosen of Him and that He did not lead them away after the tradition of their brethren, and that their hearts were not stolen away to believe in things to come which they knew nothing about.

[00:48:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Now in our scriptures, turn to Alma chapter 31 and I want you to bracket off verses 15 through 18 because Diane read for us that every Sunday the Zoramites would get up and say the same prayer on this holy stand.

And so to the outside of verses 15 through 18, we are going to write repetition on the Rameumptom. That's what they did. That is the prayer right there, verses 15 through 18. And you can see why Alma and this brethren were astonished at this prayer. This is the same prayer. It's prayed each week. And Diane, will you now read for us, verse 23.

[00:49:27] Diane Roberts: Now after the people had all offered up, thanks after this manner. They returned to their homes, never speaking of their God again until they had assembled themselves together again to the holy stand to offer up thanks after their manner.

[00:49:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Oh my goodness. So never speaking of the Lord again, never talking about him.

They go live their lives. This is astounding. And so you can understand now just how sad Alma and his brother truly, truly are. So now we're going to bracket off another prayer. So, go to verses 26 through 35 and mark those and bracket that off. This is a completely different prayer. It is not a repetition on the rameumptom, but instead we are going to title it powerful plea of Alma and quite frankly, our own pleas.

Because here is Alma praying because he's so sad for the people that he loves, who have completely left the truth, who have twisted and distorted the true traditions or the true beliefs that they once had. And he is so devastated by this. That throughout his prayer, he asks for one thing specifically. He asked for it for himself, and then he asks for it for his brethren.

Let's go to verse 31 and 32. And Linda, can you please read those two verses for us?

[00:50:48] Linda Cook: Sure. Oh Lord, my heart is exceedingly sorrowful. Wilt thou comfort my soul in Christ? Oh Lord, wilt thou grant unto me that I may have strength? That I may suffer with patience these afflictions, which shall come upon me because of the iniquity of this people.

O Lord, wilt thou comfort my soul, and give unto me success, and also my fellow laborers who are with me, yea, Ammon, and Aaron, and Omner, and also Amulek, and Zeezrom, and also my two sons, yea, even all these wilt thou comfort. Oh Lord ye wilt thou comfort their souls in Christ.

[00:51:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. In those two verses, highlight the times he asks for them to comfort their souls in Christ or just to comfort their souls.

And this really stood out to me this idea of comforting our souls in Christ. And I wanted to know from the two of you, has this ever been a prayer of yours? Or, have you ever had your soul comforted in Christ? What is that like for you two?

[00:51:49] Linda Cook: Go ahead, Diane. You start.

[00:51:53] Diane Roberts: Um, this one hits really tender and close to me.

Um, we had a grandson pass away when he was 12 years old. His name was Grant, and he was born with cerebral palsy. He was the happiest kid. He had very limited verbal communication, um, but there were some things that he would do. His smile just lit up a room, but about, I would say seven or eight months before he passed away, his health was declining.

We knew it was, and there was a great need to have our souls comforted, to yoke ourselves with the Savior and the knowledge that we knew, that we know. That we will be with that young man again. We're coming up closely on the seven year anniversary of his death. And what brings us comfort during this time is we go back to Primary Children's and give back and serve a meal there.

So it was during that time, especially of the months leading up to his, his death, that we knew miracles were not going to be able to step in. Things were not going to change with Grant, but we knew that the way that we would see those blessings is if we were side by side with the Savior.

[00:53:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Diane, I'm sorry for your loss.

But thank you for sharing that testimony about having your soul comforted in Christ. And I like how you ended by saying, standing side by side with the Savior. Powerful. Thank you. What about you, Linda?

[00:53:45] Linda Cook: I think I have to go back to when we were called to be mission leaders. The first thing was is. You know, we had a couple of kids who were not very excited and at the very beginning, not supportive of all of us leaving, they were going through some stuff and my husband and I just knew that if we served that we would be blessed.

And as we got to the mission and worked with our youth, our youth, our elders and sisters, I guess at that point, they're not really youth, but, um, you know, we, they, they go through all kinds of emotions and they would call and I would talk with them. And I had a list of, of scriptures because I think Christ is the one.

That comforts us. He gives us the answers to our questions on why we are here and why we're serving. And sometimes, you know, missionaries get so disappointed. And then we'd have to, to talk to them about when people get disappointed, you're supposed to forgive them. Christ said, forgive them for they know not what they do.

And I think we have to teach that to our missionaries. Um, you know, they wanted to know, you know, they felt alone. And And how do you do that? We go to the scriptures and in Doctrine and Covenants, it was always one of my favorite scriptures and that's the one, uh, 84, 88, where it says, there will I be also, I will go before you.

I am on your right hand and your left and the angels round about you. So we knew that we're never alone. Christ is with us. And with all of these scriptures that we have access to. Instantly, we can fill his love. We can fill his support. And I just love that, um, we have it and we can use it and read it over and over again.

And that is why he's given us scriptures is that we can, we can always find our answers in those scriptures. And there's really nothing better than being a missionary and being with God and Jesus 24 seven. That's why it's the best two years or 18 months or three years.

[00:56:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I agree. Wow. Diane, give us that scripture reference again.

I think it's such a great reference to put next to this prayer of Alma in Doctrine and Covenants,

[00:56:10] Diane Roberts: 84, 88.

[00:56:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Put Doctrine and Covenants section 84 verse 88. What a powerful verse to be reminded that he is with us. Always. I can't think of a better reminder to know that our souls will be comforted in Christ because he is with us.

So thank you so much, Linda. I appreciate your answers and for the power and testimony that you just gave that this really does happen. We really can have our souls comforted in Christ because he is with us. So So one of the things we do at the end of every episode this summer, though, is I asked my guests to tell us, how do you count it joy when you're in the middle of trials and tribulations?

And so this is what I want to know from you too. And I'm even specifically thinking like, how do you count it joy while you're waiting for your soul to be comforted? There's a lot of people listening who are in the midst of trials who think there's no way I could count it joy. It's too hard. How do you count it joy while you're waiting?

I don't know. I've just had these all of a million thoughts about this, but talk to me too. How are you counting at joy? How does it work for you?

[00:57:10] Linda Cook: You know, when you talk about this, the summer of joy, I look at the beginning of, of our summer and it started off with three funerals. A really good friend of ours lost their son, a father of three little children.

And that was really hard. And then two other great men passed away that were close to us. Who I, they were mentors for me and my husband. Um, a few weeks after that, one of my cousin's sons tried to take his own life. And he was not successful except for, I think it was five different times, um, he did actually pass away, but they revived him.

He had no brain, um, function and he was on a ventilator. He was on life support and they just said, it's, he's not, it's not ever going to get better. And then a couple of weeks after that, my mom ended up in the emergency room. She had an ulcer actually. Eat through the lining of her stomach and started to ooze into her abdomen.

And they went in and fixed that and found cancer on her liver. So we've, we've had all of these things and through it all for me, I think this is, is one of my gifts is I can find joy. I can find joy in going to a funeral and learning how great these people are, looking for how I can improve my life and remember the great people and the fun and the memories.

This cousin's son of mine, he had miracle after miracle after miracle, and this young man, they told him that they're going to have to take him off life support the next morning. Well, they started to, to, to talk about that and he woke up. And then he stood up and then he walked and within days he walked out of that hospital.

And he's a healthy young man. And so there are so many miracles that were, that happened to him and that, that is, that is joy. And the night before my mom went in for this procedure, my dad gave her a blessing. And the blessing he gave her is that they would find out what was causing the pain that they would find out and be directed to the right doctors to take care of this.

This problem that she was having and. Every single day, we see those answers to those, that blessing and the miracles that are coming. It has been a summer of joy because it's a summer of miracles as well. And when you look for miracles and you see them, how can you not be joyful? Right. And you know, then you can also look out and you can see the beautiful sunshine and, and the joy and the people that are out.

And I just, summer is just happiness for me.

[01:00:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Linda. What a wonderful response to that question. And when you started telling all of those stories, I'm like, wow, not a summer of joy for you at all. Those were some sad stories, but I appreciate so much that you pointed out. It's the miracles. So thank you for your response.

What about you, Diane?

[01:00:41] Diane Roberts: Well, when you gave us this question, I immediately just looked above the area that I study. So downstairs here in my basement, on my basement wall, and I'm just going to try and turn so you can see it, is the scripture in Alma 26, 36 that says, this is my life, my light, and my joy. And I see that every day.

I see it multiple times every day. And there's great joy and blessings in letting his light be in my life. And with my family celebrating the joy in the little things, this is my life that I love, and he is my light. And all things bring great joy to me.

[01:01:30] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Can I ask a follow up question, Diane? Sure. I want to know, you were in a big car accident and I want to know how have you counted it joy surrounding that situation where your life was, your car saved you, the airbags, everything.

When you're in the middle of that, people are like, no joy. My car's totaled. I'm hurt. All of that. How, how have you been able to, my life, my light, my joy? After all of that,

[01:01:58] Diane Roberts: I will be very honest, it has been hard, but I feel like who I am as an individual, I look for the good every day, and it's centered around my choices, and there's been days I haven't wanted to sit up and read or spend the time to study, but it's because of that attitude of gratitude that I have been able to put those habits and routines that I have to into practice.

And that truly is what brings me joy.

[01:02:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Diane, when you said the habits and routines I had before is what brings you joy, that hit me in my heart because it just goes back to this idea. We talk about traditions, but boy, there's something wonderful about traditions centered on Christ. And if we have that as a foundation, that's when it comes into play is when we're in the middle of the yuck and the blah, and we can, we can lean on that and hold to that.

So thank you, Diane. I appreciate that. Thank you, ladies. What a wonderful discussion today, starting out with Korihor and all that we learned. I think we can clearly see why this story was contained on the plates and why we need it today in our lives. So thank you to both of you. I love you both. You're awesome.

Come to my house any day with cheese and milk, or maybe you won't. Now, if you're like, well, this is gonna put us on the podcast. We're never doing it again. I love you both. Thank you.

[01:03:28] Diane Roberts: Thank you, Tammy.

[01:03:29] Linda Cook: Anything. We love you, Tammy. You, you bless, you bless so many lives.

[01:03:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. You're bet yours. You're awesome.

Thank you. Well, I would love to know how all of you count it. Joy. Isn't that interesting? We're in the middle of the summer here and we've had a couple of weeks to have experiences. I'm so grateful for their transparency of our guests to tell us that it hasn't quite been the summer of joy and how they're finding joy.

So go to our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram to share what you are experiencing this summer. You can even ask questions, which I will answer throughout the week. And then at the end of the week, usually on a Saturday, we post a question that has to do with this episode. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we'll have links to all the references and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. And The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living.

It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our beautiful study group participants were Diane Roberts and Linda Cook. And you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.

Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember that no matter what you are going through, he is with you because you are God's favorite.