The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: The 2002 Saturday afternoon session of the October general conference opened with a 364 voice ensemble singing called to serve. I don't know if anyone remembers this. I do. And it was so powerful. So I looked up a little bit about it. The choir was made up of proselyting missionaries. Service missionaries and senior missionaries ranging in ages from 18 years to people in their 80s in a church news article, elder Marcus B Nash, who's a general authority, 70 and executive director of the missionary department said this quote, the members of this choir joined together to sing in a way that uplifted and inspired us all speaking metaphorically.
Each missionary is a vital voice in the choir of missionary service, each lending spirit and strength as they join in singing the songs of redeeming love to a world in dire need of redemptive power of Christ. Unquote. Well, I was thinking about this as I was studying from Alma chapter 17 through 22.
That's this week's study and the powerful stories that support the truth that all of us are vital voices in the choir. And all of us can serve and sing the redeeming love to a world in dire need of the redemptive power of Jesus Christ. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week.
And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host. Tammy use a lack hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, please follow the link in the description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friend Kaylynn Schweider from Idaho, Idaho Falls, Idaho.
Hi Kaylynn. Now, the other awesome thing about my study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today we have two new friends who've never been on, and I just adore these women and could not be more thrilled that they were willing to join us because we have Molly Collings and Rachel Rhien Tucker.
Hello ladies. Hello. Hello. Oh, I'm so excited. Okay. Let's, first of all, here's how the three of us met. Okay. Okay. We all attended a meeting together and we just connected the dots and found out, for me anyway, how much I love them. And we had a blast just talking about scripture. And I thought I have to have them on the podcast.
I met Rachel because she interviewed me for something that we did. And I spoke at this event where all three of us first met for the very first time, but I want to know how do you two know each other?
[00:02:31] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I think it was divinely orchestrated. I'll let Molly tell it.
[00:02:35] Molly Collings: 100%. And thanks, Tammy, for leaving out the part where I fangirled and blubbered all over myself when I first met you.
[00:02:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Stop. You were so fun.
[00:02:46] Molly Collings: Well, the thing is, is being a convert, my energies have gone into understanding the scriptures. And so my heroes aren't celebrities. And, you know, sports stars, my heroes are people who are master teachers and who love and study the scriptures. So I am in awe of both of you. Um, Rachel and I met when, um, through some work I was doing and, um.
My position at Church Headquarters in the Priesthood and Family Department. We have been just talking to content creators who assist with the Come Follow Me studies. And so, Rachel was just doing her thing. And have you ever had those moments where you're just like, I, I love her so much. Everything she's saying is just ringing so true and making my heart sing.
I have to know her better. And so we were in stands. Yeah, then, then, uh, I was also working at the YSA conference and Rachel was there to do a meet and greet. And this girl was like down in the dirt, helping me deliver food, uh, pulling a wagon through the 90 degree heat, you know, just so down to earth and there to serve.
And so I feel like we, we bonded and, um, I'm just so grateful. Been the best of friends ever since.
Yeah. Oh, what a good story. And they're absolutely delightful. I just love both of you. You're so much fun to talk to. And then Rachel, tell us a little about you because you are a content creator. So give us some more information about that.
[00:04:24] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Well, I, um, it was a COVID project. Really. I felt like I needed something to put my energy into besides homeschooling for kids who didn't want to be at home. And I, I started to write and I realized how much I love writing. And I taught seminary for five years. I taught early morning seminary and I loved that calling.
And by that time I had been, I had been released and I really missed it. So I started writing primarily because my two older kids wanted Instagram and I wouldn't let them have it. And they kept bugging me and bugging me. And finally I said, how about this? I'm going to start writing and you can have Instagram if you read my post every day.
And like, I can quiz you. So my kids read my testimony every day, and that was kind of the impetus of me starting to write. And it's just kind of grown. And sometimes I do come follow me posts, and sometimes I do, uh, you know, a Viktor Frankl quote and write my thoughts. I mean, I find stuff from all over the place, but it's all centered in Christ and parts of his gospel.
So I really enjoy it. My Instagram account is called Seeking Diligently. And that's what I love to do. And we hear those words in our scripture block today. So I kind of love that.
[00:05:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, that's going to be fun. When I asked you to, to be on this episode, again, not knowing much about you, just knowing that I loved you.
And then I said, share with me some of the thoughts that you had as you studied these chapters and you did not disappoint. And so of course I had to work those into the segments. And so I know it is going to be such a good discussion because friends, these women have paid the price to know scripture and they've paid the price to have a testimony of Jesus Christ.
That's the thing I'm most excited about for you to really just learn from them and feel the spirit as they share Their testimony of all of the really cool doctrinal principles that you're going to find in these chapters. So if you want to know more about my guests, I recommend going to our show notes and you're going to find their bios and pictures as well as a link to Rachel's Instagram account.
And you can find those at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. So everyone grab your scriptures, something to mark your scriptures with, and let's dig into Alma chapter 17 through 22. Okay, you two, right out of the gates, what did the Holy Ghost teach you as you studied these chapters?
[00:06:47] Molly Collings: Okay. So, what the Holy Ghost taught me, and it's probably because I, well, it is exactly what I needed.
Um, I loved in chapter 20. How Lamoni said unto Ammon, I know in the strength of the Lord thou canst do all things. So he knows the Lord can make anything happen. He's all powerful. He's omniscient. And then Lamalnai says, but behold, I'll go with thee to the land of Madonai for the king in the land of Madonai, whose name is Antionno, is a friend unto me.
Therefore I go to the land of Madonai that I may flatter the king of the land and he will cast thy brethren out of prison. And so the first thing I thought of when I read that was Um, Queen Esther and the statement, who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this. And that is so important to me because it's just a good reminder that sometimes there's ways that only, you know, the Lord wants to help someone and it's only us that can do it or it's our unique experiences and, um, positioning.
So we can be an instrument in the Lord's hands.
[00:07:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. I'm going to put Esther right next to that. That is so cool. That is such a great connection. Well, and then I'm thinking of you as a convert. You are your own Esther for such a time as this. And I look at you and your life. I mean, you do know in the strength of the Lord, just your position, and we're going to hear more about your job, but I just have a quick follow up question.
How have you seen that play out in your life?
[00:08:24] Molly Collings: Um, many times, uh, especially in my job, I originally planned on being an elementary school teacher and I did that for, uh, about five years and then had a major career change. And now, like I said, I work in the priesthood and family department on the children and youth team.
So, um. Lots of really, really smart, capable, confident, amazing people. Sometimes imposter syndrome gets me down really bad. I'm like, I'm just a convert. I'm just a mom. What am I doing here? What do I have to contribute? And so that's probably why this spirit. Use that verse to teach me is just a reminder that um, gosh sometimes when I'm making comments There's things that only a mom would know to help contribute to the things that we're creating to help Church members or that only with a teacher would know with her unique experience of teaching that age group It just helps me to feel calm and realize okay.
I can be an instrument for the Lord And I, I can be useful.
[00:09:37] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, Molly, thank you for sharing that. I think so many of us just what you said really hit our hearts because that imposter syndrome is real. And for you to say you do, you have the perspective for such a time as this. I just think that is awesome.
So thank you for sharing that. That was cool. Okay.
[00:09:54] Rachel Rhien Tucker: What about you, Rachel? Okay. This is really great. This morning, as I sat down at my table and I was just reviewing what we're going to talk about today, I wrote down Esther four 14, but I wrote it down at a different place where, and it is, it is arguably one of my very favorite scriptures anyway, but chapter 18, verse four, Ammon has just been brought back before King la He's just taken off all these arms, right? Um, and in verse four of chapter 18, king Limon said He has come down at this time to preserve your lives, and I just really believe. I believe that. I believe that we each have a mission and we each have a purpose. And if we are willing, the Lord will use us. And sometimes I, I just, I, I've loved this story since I was a kid, this whole cutting off of arms.
I don't know what it fascinated me. I don't know. It was kind of gory and weird. And I don't know. I just always thought it was such a memorable story from the Book of Mormon. And I realize now as an adult, it was kind of an unconventional. It's a little unconventional. I know. I'll just cut off all their arms.
When we tell the Lord we're willing, he'll be like, all right, do you trust me? And you say, yeah, I trust you. I'm going to do this. Okay. I want you to cut off all their arms. And you're going, really? Oh, okay. Oh, you're serious. Okay. Yep. Well, let's go. You know, and he, he will tell you what to do. And he knows the end from the beginning.
And he has this plan. And if you'll be willing, and if you'll listen to him, He'll take you through it step by step and some of it's going to sound like, Oh, that's not what I had thought you might say, but then you do it anyway and it works and you end up with these great stories and all of this conversion and miracles.
And I just, God's fingerprints are like all over this story, you know, and I just love it. I just love it.
[00:11:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Well, this was so cool because when you were talking about that, it took me back to Alma chapter 17 verse seven, because you said how God will use you. And I thought when I read this, I think it's interesting reading this verse because God will use you in the way he's prepared you with, and you don't even know why, because in verse seven.
We're going to read about this experience, this moment when Alma, the younger meets the sons of Mosiah. But I've, I've never noticed this verse until now. It says, nevertheless, they departed out of the land of Zarahemla and took their swords and their spears and their bows and their arrows that they might provide food for themselves in the wilderness.
It doesn't say anything about protecting them. So I think like they just brought all that stuff thinking, well, this is how we're going to get food. And now here he is having this moment where he's going to then a moment of conversion for a lot of people because he had the right tools. Yet, the Lord used them in a way he was not prepared to use them in.
Isn't that true with all of us, how he, he does that for us? Rachel, what's the verse then in Esther that you read? Cause I put it next to verse four of Alma chapter 18. Read that verse for us.
[00:12:50] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Esther 4, 14. Yeah. Who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this. It was the same one that Molly said.
So that's, we were just, I know it, it happens a lot with me and Molly.
[00:13:02] Molly Collings: We love each other. We love each other. All right. We vibe.
[00:13:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: This is so cool. Oh my gosh. We're only in segment one and this has been so awesome. Okay. This is fun. Well, thank you both of you for sharing what stood out to you from the Holy Ghost because what we're going to do then is like both of them have taught us.
We have two major stories going on today. We have a story of Ammon with King Lamoni. And that's chapter 17 through 20. Then we have Aaron and the father of King Lamoni, which is Alma 20 through 22. I was struck by how similar the stories were, and I kind of kept like a tally. I took a piece of paper, fold it in half and started writing down all of these things because these stories are so. Awesome. And then when you guys shared the stuff that stood out to you, I thought there is no coincidence. You guys do vibe. Actually, that's what was so cool because you sent me so many of the same things and you didn't even talk about it with each other. So I think everyone's in for a real treat. So in the next segment, we are going to dive into one of the main things that both of you wanted to talk about.
So we'll do that next.
Segment 2
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[00:14:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, I mailed these ladies a gift. I'm so excited about this. I texted them or I emailed them and said you're getting a package from me. First I asked for your address. Then I said you're getting a package from me. So don't open it. How'd that go? Did you open it? Molly, Molly, you totally did. What happened, Molly?
[00:14:31] Molly Collings: Fun story. We, I have a household full of seven people and we get 10, 000 Amazon packages a day. And just open it without thinking, but I couldn't remember anything about ordering what was in this package and called everyone in the family, who ordered this? No one would claim it. I was so confused. And then finally, at some point I was like, Oh my gosh, Tammy, you know
[00:14:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just assume like, it's funny. I should assume we all get Amazon packages. It's like. I would have done the exact same. I have done that thing like, who ordered this? It's like, then you never check the right name. Sometimes it comes in my name or my husband's name, but it's for a kid, you know, all of that stuff.
So I, that makes the story even better because especially when you're like, who in the world ordered this weird thing? Don't say what it is yet. It's gonna be so fun. Yeah. Rachel, did you open yours? Shall I do it? Okay. Here we go. Open it up, but don't say what it is. Go ahead. Open up the packaging. Take it out.
Rachel's
totally laughing.
[00:15:42] Molly Collings: This is, uh, taking me back to my days as a music teacher.
[00:15:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, sure. Probably the first musical instrument any of us learn how to use. Okay. So I have a couple of questions for you before you do anything. My first question is number one, what I sent you in the mail. Is it an instrument? Yes or no? Yes. Yes. Oh, okay.
Can anyone play this instrument? Yes.
[00:16:06] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Yes. Yes.
[00:16:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Probably. Is it hard to play? No. Okay. You keep these thoughts in mind. All right. So on the count of three, what I want you to do is take this instrument and I want you to play it to the tune of called to serve. Okay. Are you ready?
[00:16:27] Molly Collings: Where's your badge? Put your missionary badge on.
[00:16:30] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I should. Oh, hey, that's so much fun, by the way, because tell everybody your new calling, Rachel. Oh, I am a service missionary. I teach English to the members of our Spanish ward.
[00:16:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so that's so fitting for this. All right, here we go. On the count of three. One, two, three.
(Kazoo noises)
Okay ladies. Thank you. They just played a kazoo. For those of you who are wondering the instrument, I set them with kazoos. These are fancy kazoos, by the way, they, they're very beautiful and green, but I wanted us to have this idea in mind. Is it? An instrument. Can anyone play the instrument? Is it hard to play?
Because we saw this specific wording in Alma chapter 17. So we've been reading about Alma the younger, but whatever happened to the sons of Mosiah, remember they asked their dad if they could leave to go on a mission rather than become Kings. They wanted to teach the Lamanites. Now Mosiah was so worried.
About what would happen to his sons, that the Lord gave Mosiah a promise. Let's turn back to that promise. We're going to, cause we will read it a couple of times in Alma. So turn with me to Mosiah chapter 28, verse seven, so we can be reminded of the promise that he got for his sons, Mosiah chapter 28, verse seven.
And let me get there. Molly, will you read that verse for us please?
[00:17:54] Molly Collings: Sure. And the Lord said unto Mosiah, let them go up for many shall believe on their words and they shall have eternal life. And I will deliver thy sons out of the hands of the Lamanites.
[00:18:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So there's the promise. So now let's go into the story of the sons of Mosiah into the hands of the Lamanites.
Turn with me to Alma chapter 17 and we're going to look at verses six through 12 so we can connect it to the kazoo. Okay. All right, here we go. Starting out, we have that they have taken their leave. So we have that right here in verse six, Mosiah in the first year of having refused the kingdom. So that's what we set up.
And these young men in verse seven took all their bows, their slings and their swords. They went into the wilderness and they departed into the wilderness as they're going to teach the Lamanites. And now verse nine, Molly hit it.
[00:18:44] Molly Collings: And it came to pass that they journeyed many days in the wilderness and they fasted much and prayed much that the Lord would grant unto them a portion of his kingdom.
Spirit to go with them and abide with them that they might be an instrument in the hands of God to bring, if it were possible, their brethren the lamanites to the knowledge of the truth, to the knowledge of the baseness, of the traditions of their fathers, which were not correct.
[00:19:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Highlight the word instrument in that verse.
I sent you a kazoo because I wanted us to know that. Even the most simple of instruments can make a sound and they can leave an impression on us. Like we all can be instruments. All of us can be used and it's not hard to do, but it's a little tricky as we witnessed with the kazoo to get it together and get it to make the sound.
And both of you wrote about this and I would just love to know what your thoughts are. Talk to me about this specific verse of scripture and how we can be instruments in the hands of God. Can I back up actually? Do you mind? Back that up, sister.
[00:19:47] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I love these verses. Well, so Molly and I have both been missionary moms and there is something crazy that happens when you send your kid out and you just go, okay, I, I trust you, God, I trust you.
And I really worried about the safety of my son. And I can tell you from the moment he left, there has not been one time in 22 and a half months Not one time that I have ever worried about his, I've worried about lots of other things, illness and other things. But in terms of safety, I've never once worried about his safety.
And he's in like the Mecca of drug cartels. And I just believe, I just believe that the Lord keeps his missionaries safe. And I love that he promised that to Mosiah. He was like, I hear you. I know this feeling and I promise you I'm going to keep them. I'm going to make them safe. So sorry, that was not an answer to your question, but it, it touched me the first time I read it and it, it just keeps coming to my mind.
[00:20:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I'm so grateful you shared that powerful witness. Absolutely. What were your thoughts, Molly?
[00:20:58] Molly Collings: Um, I'm just struck at how, uh, instrument is tied to the word knowledge of the truth. He mentions in Mosiah 23, 10 about being an instrument in the hands and in Allah 26, he mentions it. So obviously this is something important to the Lord.
And, um, the kazoo is not nothing special, but the Lord can make. He can make good things come out of anything, I guess.
[00:21:30] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I actually think the kazoo is the perfect instrument that you sent us because it is not the violin or the harp. It is not the cello. It is not like an acoustic guitar. It's like, it's like, you know, every elementary school mom's nightmare.
The kazoo and the recorder, the kazoo is not as bad as the recorder, but it still does something. And it's, it's easy enough for the four or five year old to play and feel kind of confident, like, Oh, listen, do you know what song I'm playing? And they can do it. And you say, yeah, I know what song that is.
Like, sometimes we feel like a kazoo. Sometimes we feel like not pretty and not, you know, capable of making this beautiful sound, but we still make sound. And we can still be used. And the Lord just wants willingness. He knows our capabilities and he knows how much we have to offer way more than we do of ourselves.
He knows our potential and we have the potential to be great instruments. Every single one of us, because somewhere. Someone needs you, and someone needs me, and I just, I just love that he can use anyone who says, yes, I'm willing.
[00:22:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, powerful, powerful message for that, especially in light of who we're talking about.
Remember Alma the Younger and the Sons of Mosiah? We read back in Mosiah that they were called the very vilest of sinners. I mean, that's a pretty horrible description to describe anyone. And yet here they are, the vilest of sinners are now the instruments in the hands of the Lord. Amen. Amen. And the amazing good that they can do.
So that's why it was so fun with a kazoo, because it can be the basis of all instruments and the Lord's still going to find a way to make it sound good. Yeah. What did you notice in verse nine about how they became instruments in the hands of the Lord? What specific things did they do to become instruments?
[00:23:24] Molly Collings: Good point. They've, it says they fasted much and prayed much that the Lord would grant unto them a portion of his seed. Spirit to go with them and abide with them that they might be an instrument in the hands of God.
[00:23:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In fact, I'm going to number those. I love numbering things in my scriptures. They fasted, they, and prayed, fasted and prayed that the Lord would give them a portion.
Something else that's really interesting is if we go back to verse Two, because I just love verse two. I think two is one of my favorite verses of all scripture. And I wonder if you guys have ever had this experience. So here's Alma, right? He's had this experience. He's helping Amulek. They've been together.
Uh, we talked about this last week. What happened to the horrible experience they had? And now he's journeying into the land of Manti and it says he meets with the sons of Mosiah. Now they have not seen each other in verse four for 14 years. That's how much time has gone by since they parted their ways to go teach in the land to the Lamanites.
And we just, oh, Rachel, read verse two. And as you read verse two, we're going to look for how they were also able to be instruments of the Lord in this verse. Go ahead.
[00:24:31] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Now, these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the angel first appeared unto them. Therefore, Alma did rejoice exceedingly to see his brethren.
And what added more to his joy, they were still his brethren in the Lord. Yea, and they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth, for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently that they might know the word of God.
[00:24:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. What specific thing did they do to wax strong and know the will, the word of God?
What did they do? They searched. They searched the scriptures diligently. They didn't stop. Now, tell me, Rachel, why is that the name of your Instagram account, Seeking Diligently?
[00:25:10] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Seeking Diligently. I think it's just so important to recognize that there's always something to learn. There's always growth to be made.
There's always conversion to be had. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter how well learned you are or how long you've been a member of the church or what your callings have been or none of that matters. What matters is that none of us are perfect and none of us are all knowing, and there is always something new to learn.
And it can be really powerful to learn some of those new things. The other thing I love about that verse is that the sons of Mosiah had been with Alma. They all had this really incredible spiritual experience together, and it just bonds people. When you have experiences that involve the spirit with someone else, you're bonded in a way that can't be undone.
It's really impressive.
[00:26:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, that is absolutely true. And to have that moment, they were still brethren in the Lord. Oh, I love that word, still brethren.
[00:26:13] Molly Collings: May I go back to the first point we were talking about? Um. The fasting, praying, and the things that they did in order that they might be instruments in the hand.
The first thing that came to mind was President Nelson meeting with those cute little primary children. Um, and one of them asked, Is it hard to be a prophet? Are you like really busy? And he said, Of course it's hard. Everything to do with becoming more like the Savior is difficult, and he gave some examples.
And he said the Lord loves effort, because effort brings rewards that can't come without it. And that's something we say at work all the time. Lord likes effort. Um, and it seems like the things that are worth doing always
[00:26:53] Tammy Uzelac Hall: take effort. Oh, wow. I'm writing that above verse nine. Talk about effort. In fact, that could be the theme for chapters 17 that we're going to be studying today.
All of these chapters 17 through 22, nothing but effort. Wow. Thank you to both of you. Okay. Well, one of the phrases that we did, we've already read twice now, and we're going to talk about it more in the next segment is what really stood out to Molly. And I think this is a pretty great thing to study. So we'll tell you what that phrase is, and we'll talk about it in the next segment.
Segment 3
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[00:27:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, Molly, you brought up something that I had never noticed before, and I absolutely loved studying this specific phrase that you pointed out in Alma chapter 17, verse nine, but we also read it in verse two, but we're going to go back to it. And Molly, will you tell us what that phrase is in verse nine that you loved?
That they may come to a knowledge of the truth. Thank you. Let's highlight that. It's a very kind of middle ish bottom of that verse, the knowledge of the truth. You're going to see that again in verse two, they wax strong in the knowledge of the truth, but let's go to, we're going to go mark it in a couple of other places that have to do with these boys.
So let's go to Mosiah chapter 27 verse 14, Rachel, will you read that for us?
[00:28:18] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Sure. And again, the angel said, behold, the Lord has heard the prayers of his people and also the prayers of his servant Alma, who is thy father, for he has been called. Prayed with much faith concerning me that thou mayest be brought to the knowledge of the truth.
Therefore, for this purpose, have I come to convince thee of the power and authority of God, that the prayers of his servants might be answered according to their faith.
[00:28:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Isn't that awesome that Alma the older was praying that his son would be brought to the knowledge of the truth. Okay. Let's cross reference that to verse 36.
We're going to read it again right here. And Rachel, will you read that for us?
[00:28:52] Rachel Rhien Tucker: And thus they were instruments in the hand of God. In bringing many to the knowledge of the truth, yay to the knowledge of their redeemer.
[00:28:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. There it is, knowledge of the truth. Now let's go back to Alma chapter 17.
We've marked it in verse nine, and we marked it in verse two, but it's also in verse four. Molly, will you read verse four for us, of Alma 17,
[00:29:11] Molly Collings: and they had been teaching the word of God for this face of 14 years among the Lamanites. Having had much success in bringing many to the knowledge of the truth.
Yea, by the power of their words, many were brought before the altar of God to call on his name and confess their sins before him.
[00:29:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Molly, teach us about this phrase. Why did you love it so much?
[00:29:33] Molly Collings: You know how you're just reading scriptures and sometimes the spirit just puts a neon light on a verse and you get curious about it and you want to go deeper.
And that's what happened to me with this. I think what resonated with me is I'm thinking, I'm sure Alma desperately, desperately wants a change for his son. And I've been in that position where someone I love Is maybe needing help and I and I remember thinking well Alma brought about a miracle So what was it that he prayed for and I just think it's so so interesting that out of all of the things he could Have asked for he asked, and they might be brought to the knowledge of the truth.
And so that's always kind of been swimming around in my head as something interesting. Um, and then when I saw it again, turning our scriptures, I was like, aha, here it is again. Um, and I just wonder, what does that mean? Why is that so important? And I do know in my own conversion, when I first heard about the plan of salvation, it really did feel like a remembering.
It was like, Oh, yeah. Okay. I lived before I came to earth. That's right. So I thought, well, maybe that's what it means. And it might be a little bit, but yeah. As I continue to research, I noticed in the scriptures, it's also referred to as absolute truth. And that's another phrase that pops up in my mind as a pattern that I've seen as I've been studying President Nelson's published and unpublished teachings.
Um, One of my assignments is to be on a committee that's working on the teachings of President Nelson for the teachings of the President of the Church manual. And our first assignment was to read what was at the time 953 of his talks. I think it's up to 958.
[00:31:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Whoa.
[00:31:31] Molly Collings: Since he became an apostle in 1984. And he talks about absolute truth.
It's a theme that has surfaced throughout his teachings. And it's just. I just marvel at the fact that he began to teach about truth years before we saw our society really began to lean more towards philosophies about truth being relative. Something I like that he said in the 2021 General Conference, he said, Contrary to the doubts of some, there really is such a thing as right and wrong.
There really is absolute truth, eternal truth. One of the plagues of our day is that too few people know where to turn for truth. So it's just interesting to me the parallels between a focus on truth during Alma and the Sons of Mosiah's time, leading up to the coming of the Savior. And the prophet in our day has also been teaching heavily about truth prior to the Savior's return.
[00:32:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, here's a question I have as you were talking, and I want to talk more about this idea of absolute truth, but my first question for you, Molly, is will you tell us how did you come to learn? About how did you come to the knowledge of the truth? What's your conversion story?
[00:32:49] Molly Collings: Sure. So I'm from the East coast, originally from Fredericksburg, Virginia.
And when I was 11, so this would have been, I think, 1989, we went on a trip out west and went through Temple Square. And at, at those times, at the end of the tour, they would give you a card to fill out your information. And I was 11, so I did. Um, and that was just the, the, a cardinal sin in my household is Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons.
You don't open the door for them. Uh, and so when they showed up at the door, my mom was like, no, thanks. And, uh, they said, but we have this card. And so, um, as a punishment, I was made to meet with the sister missionaries by myself. Are you serious? We, we had a good talk and they left me with a book of Mormon and a gospel principles book.
And I, I said, I want to go to that church. And. Uh, at that time, my family thought it was a cult, that's kind of what was going around in our area of Virginia, and so they were like, no way. And that was that. But I put them on my bookshelf, and I kind of forgot what they were, but every time I would see them, I would think, should I throw these away?
I don't even read them. I don't even know what they are, but they just feel special and I would put them back on the shelf. Just had a feeling they were special. And on the inside, in those days, they give you a hardback copy of the Book of Mormon and then on the inside would be a testimony and a picture of a member from that area.
So fast forward, my, um, dad had cancer. He struggled for three years. And He passed away when I was 15, and a month later, my only living grandparent passed away, who I was very close with. And suddenly, questions about life get really real. And I just wondered, I can't believe that my dad, who was so wonderful and loved me so much, could just die.
Jesus ceased to exist. He has to be somewhere. What is even the purpose of being here on this earth if you just gonna die and leave? And that started a church search. I just realized I need answers and I wanted them desperately. And so for quite a while, if I had a friend that went to a different church, I'd say, Hey, can I go with you?
And I ran and I studied, but just felt kind of like Goldilocks, just, Oh, this is a God of wrath. And that feels so harsh. Well, this is a god of mercy, and so all you have to do is just accept and you're saved. And that didn't feel right. But I, I couldn't find what I was looking for. Kinda gave up for a while, and then started hanging out with some new friends at school.
This was in the 90s. I loved the cranberries. With all my heart, and I heard, I overheard them in my Spanish class saying they had a ticket. Didn't know them, but invited myself with them because I wanted the ticket so bad. And I just noticed they were so fun. And these people, I had seen them around school before and noticed that they were especially kind.
To people that were normally teased or bullied they didn't go to rated r movies They were just different and we started to become friends and they invited me to youth activities there were some really awesome leaders there and they kind of bonded with me or inspired me maybe because they I was missing my dad.
One of them was, I think it was Dewey. I'm going to say it was brother Dewey, but, but if it's another person, I'm sorry if I'm getting your name wrong, but it's been a while. Um, anyway, at some point I figured out, oh my gosh, that's that same church that has those books on my shelf. And, uh, so I pulled them out and the testimony on the inside of the Book of Mormon was Brother Dewey's family.
No way! It was black and white. He only had three kids. Um, it was a different town. Seven years prior. I wasn't even going to the right war. Because I was going with my friends. Which was out of boundary. So the chances of this, it's just so amazing, and um, presently he had six kids and had the big white Mormon band and all of that, and so I thought, well if, if this person is endorsing this book, I know it's true.
So, before I even opened it up, I just knew it was going to have the answers that I needed. Uh, so it was kind of a golden investigator and the missionaries loved me. You totally were. But the problem is I had never read scripture before and to me it just looked like I couldn't understand it. But the sister missionaries had left a gospel principles book.
Who does that? Right. I don't think that's normal protocol.
[00:37:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No, I never did that one time on my mission.
[00:37:55] Molly Collings: So, I was actually converted by the Gospel Principles book. I sat down and devoured the whole thing. And like I said, it was like, remembered. Yes. Everything fell into place.
[00:38:06] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. Is that the best story ever?
Oh, it's such a good story. How old were you when you got baptized? I was 17. What did your parents do?
[00:38:17] Molly Collings: Um, so my mom wasn't thrilled. She was actually really worried for her daughter and, um, didn't want me to be taking the discussions or, and didn't want me to get baptized. So I was prepared to wait until I was 18.
But in those days in Virginia, seminary was held in brother Dunn's basement before school. So she saw her daughter. getting up 430 in the morning driving 20 miles out the routher guns house. Cause I was gonna figure out this Book of Mormon and understand it. And at some point I think she realized this isn t a fad.
This really means a lot to her and So on May 4th, I was able to get baptized.
[00:39:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, one of the things that hit me when you said you learned, you started learning all of these principles and doctrines and it, it was familiar to you. You're like, Oh yeah, I know this. And I'm going back to Alma, the older praying that his son would come to a knowledge of the truth.
And I think what you said right there is what that means. He already knew, he already knew the doctrine. Alma the Younger had been taught by his father his whole life. So it wasn't like, please help my son attend a class so he can figure this out. I think come to a knowledge of the truth is what every single one of us pray for people who we love that I maybe are in this space of not quite, you know, a little uncertain and we're just praying, help them remember what they know.
That's what those boys did. And in chapter 17, that they had whacked strong in the knowledge of the truth, that they brought many to the knowledge of the truth. Like, again, just reminding, like, you've already known this. In fact, we studied this last week when we talked about how in the pre earth life, before any of us were born, we all knew All of this, and truth is truth.
And when you hear it, it should, that's the, that is one of the responsibilities of the Holy Ghost is to bring all things to your remembrance in the book of John. And so that is really awesome in here. And here we have these young boys who are instruments in the hands of the Lord because they search the scriptures.
They fasted and they prayed and then they, they knew everything so that they could then teach it to everybody else. So that is a great phrase, Molly, the knowledge of the truth and how you came about to doing that. So thanks for sharing your conversion story. That's neat. How does your mom feel about it now?
I'm just curious.
[00:40:41] Molly Collings: Um, actually super supportive. She comes to all my kids' things and um, is she here at Utah? She moved Utah. Uhhuh, . She moved out here in Utah to be near her grandchildren. And um, she's a great ex, she's a great example of being able of tolerance and being able to have a good relationship with someone who has a different faith set than you do.
Uh, but you find things that you have in common.
[00:41:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. And I think that's how we get people to the knowledge of the truth. Things in common. Wow. Thank you, Molly. Thank you for teaching us that. Okay. So we're gonna take everything that we just learned. And in the next segment, we're going to discover one of the most important pieces of truth that all of us need to remember.
When we talk about a knowledge of the truth, Alma and Ammon are going to make sure that they begin with this knowledge and we'll tell you what it is in the next segment.
Segment 4
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[00:41:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. So I'm just going to ask you a question. So sit back and answer this. How, whatever comes to your mind, the very first Okay. If you met someone who is not a member of the church. And they were like, I want to know more. What would you begin with? What's the first thing you want them to know right out of the gates? Go.
[00:42:03] Molly Collings: Plan of salvation.
[00:42:07] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I would, I would say divine identity. I think I would let them know who they are and, and where they came from. And that ties in right, obviously that ties right in. But I think when people have a knowledge about who they are, it kind of, it changes everything.
[00:42:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Who are they? What would you say?
[00:42:27] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I would tell them that there is a God and that they came from that, and they have physical and spiritual traits that came from God. And maybe point some of those out.
[00:42:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Powerful. Molly, why Plan of Salvation? What would you, what would you want to know about that plan?
[00:42:43] Molly Collings: Well, just maybe it's because my father in law recently passed away.
So it's recently on my mind just thinking, because I know that there's a plan, this is sad, but it's not devastating. And it's a, it's a celebration of life and I can do anything if I know it's not forever. And so I think I can go without him it because I know I'll see him again and I contrast that to what it felt like to lose my dad without a knowledge of the gospel, and how hopeless and, um, Just tragic it felt and trip traumatic and so I I just want people to have comfort and peace to know why they're here and that there's a purpose
[00:43:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: okay, your answers were perfect and you didn't even know I was gonna ask you that question and the reason why I asked them that question and And I want everyone to be thinking about that.
That might be a fun question to ask on social media this week, because I'd love to know what everyone's answers are. The reason I asked it is that we have two of these stories. We have the story of Ammon and then we have the story of Aaron and both have the opportunity to teach Kings. And the first thing they're going to teach right out of the gate is God.
And who they are in his relationship to them, and then it naturally evolves into a plan of salvation. So your answers were perfect. Let's go to Alma chapter 18 verse two. We have the whole story and Rachel set us up perfectly at the very beginning about, we know the story of Ammon. He cuts off the arms of the Lamanites who are trying to kill them while they're also trying to steal the sheep.
or the flocks. And when we get to the story then, where we have King Lamoni, he thinks that Ammon is what's is the great spirit. That's what we have in verse two. And they have this whole discussion about a great spirit. You're going to see great spirit in verse four, two times. In fact, if you go through this chapter and Mark, every time they talk about great spirit, verse five talks about the word great spirit and they come and they have this conversation.
And I like how And you both have said this, they build on common beliefs. They start with what they have in common. And so if we go into Alma chapter 18, we're going to look at verse 24 through 28. Rachel, can you read those verses for us?
[00:45:02] Rachel Rhien Tucker: 18, 24 through 28.
[00:45:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes, please.
[00:45:06] Rachel Rhien Tucker: And Ammon began to speak unto him with boldness and said unto him, Believest thou that there is a God?
And he answered and said unto him, I do not know what thou meanest. And then Amon said, believe us, th that there is a great spirit. And he said, yay. And Amon said, this is God. And Amon said unto him again, believe us th that this great spirit who is God, created all things which are in heaven and in earth.
And he said, yay. I believe that he created all things which, which are in the earth, but I do not know the heavens.
[00:45:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Okay. So he talks to him about God, and then verse 32 almost had me weeping because I asked you guys to come with your ideas or what you believe about God. And this is what I believe about God, which is why it had me cry.
Because if I was to teach anybody about our heavenly father, this is the verse I would want to quote and focus on. And Molly, will you read verse 32?
[00:45:58] Molly Collings: Sure. And Ammon said, yea, and he looketh down upon all the children of men, and he knows all the thoughts and intents of the heart. For by his hand were they all created from the beginning.
[00:46:10] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. I love, I believe that about God, that he really does look down upon all of us and he knows the thoughts and intents of our heart. I just have such a strong testimony of that, that he sees me and he sees my sisters and my brother and my parents and my neighbors. He sees us all. And that is what I would want everyone to know is that he, and it goes back to that divine identity, Rachel, which I just think is so beautiful is that you're his child.
Of course he sees you. Of course he does. So let's go to the other versus then when we have the story between Aaron and King Lamoni's father turned to Alma chapter 22. And let's just read what he teaches. King Lamoni's father about God. We're just going to focus on verses eight through 11. And Molly, can you please read those for us?
[00:46:57] Molly Collings: Sure. And now when Aaron heard this, his heart began to rejoice. And he said, behold, Assuredly as thou livest, O king, there is a God. And the king said, Is God that great spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him, Yea, he is that great spirit, and he created all things, both in heaven and in earth.
Believest thou this? And he said, Yea, I believe that the great spirit created all things, and I desire that you should tell me concerning all these things, and I will believe thy word.
[00:47:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. How cool that just talking about God led this man to saying, no matter what you say from here on out, I'm going to believe.
So I want to know from the two of you, what do you believe about God?
[00:47:40] Molly Collings: Well, I went, I mostly grew up Episcopalian and Episcopalians and Catholics are all about the God of wrath. And so for me, it's kind of been a lifelong pursuit to understand the true nature of God. Um, and I still kind of slip back into my old ways and think I'm in trouble or, um, you know, and so I just noticed there's a lot of teachings lately about God being in relentless pursuit of us.
And that was really hard for me to wrap my brain around at first. I was telling Rachel this at women's conference. I can't wrap my brain around that. Tell me why. I don't know. That's probably why I'm in therapy, Abby. I don't know. I don't know. But Elder Kieran, in General Conference, I wrote this down. He said, God is in relentless pursuit of you.
He wants all of his children to choose to return to him, and he employs every possible measure to bring you back. And then our cute friend Emily Snyder in Women's Conference talked all about this, and she preaches this all the time, so at some point it's gonna soak in. I'm starting to believe it. So that's what I think about God.
I think he is relentless pursuit of us. He loves us. He wants everyone to come home and he'll do anything he can to make sure that happens.
[00:49:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: When you hear the word relentless pursuit, what do you imagine? Like define that in your own terms.
[00:49:18] Molly Collings: Oh, Rachel and I were talking about this and I'm like, I just think of my cute dog.
My cute dog loves me so much. He never wants to leave my side. He has no guile. His whole life revolves around protecting me and loving me. And if I ran down the street, he would run after me in relentless pursuit. And so I was just telling Rachel, I'm going to keep thinking about that as I, I think about that love of God and what that might look like.
[00:49:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I think that is such a beautiful image, Molly. Like I'm imagining God chasing after us. I think that's exactly what he meant by that phrase in relentless pursuit. Oh, I think that's sweet. And I love that. Thank you for giving us that image. Carry on. What more conversations did you have at women's conference when you attended?
Rachel, what do you believe God?
[00:50:13] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I told Molly, I said, you, you have to be able to comprehend this. He loves you like a doodle. He just loves you like a doodle dog because when you have a doodle dog that doesn't have a mean bone in their body and they just want to be with you all the time and it really wasn't meant to be sacrilegious.
It really is like when you have a dog that just wants, wants to love you and tolerate your bad moods and you know, you forget to feed them and they still love you.
[00:50:43] Molly Collings: Immediately forgives.
[00:50:45] Rachel Rhien Tucker: You know? Immediately forgives. Yeah. Anyway, so I loved that conversation with you, Molly. I, I will actually never forget that.
And as, as funny as it sounds, it actually did. Sort of changed something in my mind about that phrase of relentless pursuit. So what did it change? It was just a very literal example of a, I mean, I love my husband, I love my children, but they've all been irritated with me. There are times I'll get along.
There are times we disagree. And, and so that's a hard, that doesn't really work. Right. But there is one creature. If you're a dog owner, there's one creature in your life who really just loves unconditionally, right? Cat owners are going to be like, I'm stopping this podcast.
[00:51:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: No, no, no. But what I love about this is the application because it's terms that we can understand.
Many people understand exactly what you're saying right now. That's what was so neat about Alma 22 is when the King says, wait a minute, is this the same God that we know about in Egypt and Moses? Like that's his frame of reference. And which is fascinating to me because remember, they are Lamanites.
They've left that belief system, but he's like, wait a minute, I think I know this story. So he conjures up in his mind something that was familiar. I don't know if there's any other better way to talk about a relationship with God than what is familiar with what makes sense. And all of us need that because right now it's faith based with God, but if you have a doodle owner, that's fact based.
And so if you can connect fact to faith, I think that's a pretty powerful connection to go, Oh, yeah, that is probably what it's like. Oh, I think it's beautiful. Cause I'm like, I'm not in relentless pursuit of anything right now in my life. I mean, everyone, God, are you really everybody? And God's like, yeah, everybody.
Yeah. Thank goodness.
[00:52:40] Rachel Rhien Tucker: One thing I feel like I'm just starting to come to understand, and I've been a member of my whole life. I'm almost 45. It's taken me a long time to grasp this. We don't talk enough about grace and mercy. And I, I think when Molly was saying, you know, this vengeful God that she grew up with, I think there's still some aspect of that in my own faith where I wonder, you know, punishment and justice.
And I just think I want to try and be better at teaching my children more about grace and mercy. Because I feel like it's something we don't talk about quite enough, and I just think if my imperfect understanding of being a parent comes from this earthly experience, I, I get this little glimpse of what it's like, right, to love someone just that much.
So much. And yet I'm still so imperfect. And I'm still, I still make mistakes in the parenting realm. Right. But yes, any chance that I can say yes to them, any chance that, you know, we can, we can work on our relationships and make them stronger and better. I am all over that. And if me as, as an imperfect mother want that, then our heavenly parents are like, So much more invested in grace and mercy, and they just want us back.
They just want us. They want every one of us back. Every one of us.
[00:54:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. You did it for me. Cause I don't own dogs. So I love that you connected on the doodle thing, which I think is awesome. I have friends who love dogs, but when you said the word mercy. It made me emotional because I understand that level of relentless pursuit because we've learned this year that the word mercy in Hebrew is Rahim and it comes from the same root as the word for a womb where a baby grows.
And I think every one of us, like, I just think of, I mean, I, no mother on this planet who has waited to get pregnant. Has been in more relentless pursuit of making sure that little baby is safe in her belly and she will do everything she can to make sure it is fed and nurtured and safe and you're worried all the time.
And the slightest bit of news puts you into this tailspin of what might happen to that unborn child, right? That idea of that was then when you said mercy, I was like, okay, now I get it. That was when I think the first time in my life, I felt relentless pursuit of making sure that this child. every chance to grow and thrive and then be born.
That whole process is so scary. Wow. Thank you for saying the word mercy because now I get it.
[00:55:31] Molly Collings: Oh, Rachel and I have a shared quote board and loves you like a doodle is on our share quote board.
[00:55:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I loves you like we both have doodle dogs. It's something we grasp. I think it's beautiful. What a great way to talk about how cool that we just spent the last 15 minutes talking about God and that we felt the spirit.
Oh my gosh. Totally felt the spirit as you guys share those examples. And that's exactly what happened. That is exactly what happened when we talk about Lamoni and Lamoni's father. They felt the spirit. How could you not? They're talking about God. They feel the spirit and they have this awesome experience where they pass out.
We love that because that's, again, something that happened to both of them. And in the next segment, we're going to find out about a few more instruments in the hands of God and in these stories. And they just happen to be women. We'll talk about that next.\
Segment 5
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[00:56:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: One of the questions that we always get in scripture, and it's my favorite. It's why we started the unnamed women of scripture series on Apple podcasts is. Where are the women? And so Rachel, Molly, and I, we get to talk about the women in this story. And there are three main ones as well as kind of the ones not written about, but you have to know women are here having this experience with all of these people.
So we're going to talk about how these women were instruments in the hands of God. Let's start with King Lamoni's wife. We're going to go to Alma chapter 19 and we're going to look at verses four through 10. And we're going to follow along and find out the role that King Lamoni's wife played being an instrument and what Alma has to say about her.
Okay. So each take a verse, I'll start and then Molly and then Rachel, here we go. So King Lamoni's wife, remember he has passed out. The servants of my husband have made it known unto me that thou art a prophet of a holy God and that thou has power to do many mighty works in his name.
[00:57:24] Molly Collings: Therefore, if this is the case, I would that you should go in and see my husband.
For he has been laid upon his bed for the space of two days and two nights. And some say that he is not dead, but others say that he is dead and that he stinketh. But, as for myself, to me, ye doth not stink.
[00:57:41] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Now this is what Ammon desired, for he knew that King Lamoni was under the power of God. He knew that the dark veil of unbelief was being cast away from his mind, and the light which did light up his mind, which was the light of the glory of God.
Which was marvelous light of his goodness, yea, this light had infused such joy into his soul, the cloud of darkness having been dispelled, and that the light of everlasting life was lit up in his soul, yea, he knew that this had overcome his natural frame, and he was carried away in God. Okay.
[00:58:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just have to pause for a second there.
I just noticed for the first time in verse six, how many times did it say the word light? Oh.
[00:58:20] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Oh yeah. And in lighting him up,
[00:58:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: like literally lighting him up. I'm just going to go ahead and mark all those words of light because I'll tell you what, if the gospel of Jesus Christ and talking about God doesn't do that for everyone, I don't know what does.
And the juxtaposition between the darkness, that's so cool. Okay, verse 7, Therefore what the queen desired of him was his only desire. Therefore he went to see the king according as the queen had desired him, and he saw the king, and he knew that he was not dead.
[00:58:52] Molly Collings: And he said unto the queen, He is not dead, but he sleepeth in God.
And on the morrow he shall rise again, therefore bury him not.
[00:59:01] Rachel Rhien Tucker: And Ammon said unto her, Believest thou this? And she said unto him, I have had no witness save thy word and the word of our servants. Nevertheless, I believe that it shall be according as thou has said.
[00:59:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's highlight I believe in verse nine, everybody. And then verse 10.
[00:59:19] Rachel Rhien Tucker: I actually love the word nevertheless, before I believe because she's like, no, no, I don't know. I haven't had a way. I'm just listening to what you're saying. And I haven't, I haven't, I don't know this. But. I believe. It's that but. It's the nevertheless. I will believe you and we will move forward.
[00:59:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's awesome. Okay, Rachel, then just read verse 10 for us.
[00:59:45] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Okay. And Ammon said unto her, Blessed art thou because of thy exceeding faith. I say unto thee, Woman, there has not been such great faith among all the people of the Nephites.
[00:59:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm drawing a line and I'm connecting the word nevertheless to exceeding faith in verse 10.
There it is. There is the nevertheless is the exceeding faith. Wow. Among all the people of the Nephites. Isn't that such a great compliment? So cool. Yeah. Okay. So that's her story. Now she is going to then pass out next to her husband. And then we have another woman that comes on the scene because then all these people are passing out everywhere and Ammon knows what's happening.
Now he's passed out, everyone's gone. And then we get the story of a woman In Alma chapter 19 verse 16, Molly, will you read that for us?
[01:00:36] Molly Collings: And it came to pass that they did call on the name of the Lord in their might, even until they had all fallen to the earth, save it were one of the Lamanitish women, whose name was Abish.
She having been converted unto the Lord for many years on account of a remarkable vision of her father. Abish. Hit it.
[01:00:56] Rachel Rhien Tucker: When I first read this, every parent worries about their kid, right? And I just thought, okay, she had this underlying faith. She never really shared it, but it never weakened. And it's because of the teachings of her parents, right?
And they just instilled in her this faith and this foundation of trust in God. And it never left her. And it's sort of, I don't think it laid dormant. I think it laid quiet. He felt the spirit say, okay, now, right. And she knew that it was her time to express her faith. And she was as much a missionary to me as As Ammon was, she just was so brave, especially knowing the ramifications that could come.
She was so brave. And I think sometimes you keep your testimony quiet to keep it safe. And then other times the spirit says, okay, now, and he will tell you what you should say. And she, I mean, it seemingly performs almost a miracle, right? She touches the queen and the queen. Is raised from what they thought was the dead and then the queen does the same thing.
So it's these two women who raise, you know, one raises the other and then the. The queen raises her husband, and it's just, to me, one of the most powerful parts of this whole story.
[01:02:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. I like how you brought in the imagery of her raising them up. Women raising women. Boy, isn't that what we want?
Yeah. So cool. I think it's interesting. She's only one of six women who are given a name in the Book of Mormon, who are called by name. And she's a, she's a Lamanite. Like, yeah, I thought that was really fascinating. Um, her name in Hebrew, Ab means father and Ish means man. So her name means father is man.
Here's three different ways that scholars think that this name could be significant to this story because it says right here, her name's Abish. She having been converted unto the Lord for many years on account of a remarkable vision of her father. Okay. So here's one of three ways you could look at this.
Number one, the interpretation is that Abish herself had a vision and in her vision, she saw her father. Number two is that the vision was actually had by the father of Abish and named her Abish, because the vision was of her father seeing God who is man, like he's my father. The other one is that she herself saw the father and she had her own vision.
I like that one. Yeah, I know. I think these are so awesome. But then of course, how much do we love this last little idea? And talking about Abish, I just had to share this with you because it's by Sister Elaine Dalton and she said, the power of Abish's conversion and testimony was instrumental in changing an entire society.
The people who heard her testify became a people who were converted unto the Lord and never did fall away and their sons became the stripling warriors. How about that? Is that so cool?
[01:04:05] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Yeah.
[01:04:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Anything you want to add, Molly?
[01:04:06] Molly Collings: Well, I'm still stuck on the Queen, um, just because I think it's so interesting that her husband is laying down like he's dead, and she is nevertheless still willing to trust that what this man says is true, and I can't help but keep thinking back to that.
Book of Mormon that I had on my shelf. And because of the love that had been shown to me by church leaders and friends, I knew that the book was true before I even opened it. And, and similarly, Eamonn had shown so much love that she immediately trusted him. And, and whatever he said, she would believe. And so it just really goes to show just the power of loving, um, and And how eventually it can really soften and change heart.
[01:04:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, absolutely. Well, then I'm, I'm drawn back to how we started with that quote that everybody's voice can then help the choir. Like there's not a single voice that we can't use. And the voice of love needs to be used. The voice of faith needs to be used. I mean, look at all these voices and all the different ways that they taught.
I think that is so cool. In fact, in the next story. Let's just go there. We're going to talk about the mother of Lamoni. This is the King's wife in Alma chapter 22 verses 19 through 25. She wasn't happy. In fact, she was very upset about the experience that Aaron's having that she actually wants him killed.
And so she calls all these people together to say, listen, we've got to take care of. What's happened to my husband? And I don't like the way this is turning out. I don't really know that she's antagonistic to the story, because again, it goes back to this idea where God can use anyone. So in, if you go into Alma chapter 22, look at verse 21.
Now, when the queen saw the fear of the servants, she also began to fear exceedingly, lest there should be some evil come upon her. And she commanded her servants that they should go and call the people that they might slay Aaron and his brethren. So all the servants and all the people gather around.
Rachel, read the miracle in verse 22. And then Molly, I want you to read 23 through 25 for us. Okay.
[01:06:11] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Now, when Aaron saw the determination of the The Queen, he also knowing the hardness of the hearts of the people, feared less that a multitude should assemble themselves together, and there should be a great contention and a disturbance among them.
Therefore he put forth his hand, and raised the King from the earth, and said unto him, Stand, and he stood upon his feet, receiving his strength.
[01:06:34] Molly Collings: Now this was done in the presence of the queen and many of the servants. And when they saw it, they greatly marveled and began to fear. And the king stood forth and began to minister unto them.
And he did minister unto them insomuch that his whole household were converted unto the Lord.
Now there was a multitude gathered together because of the commandment of the queen, and there began to be great murmurings among them because of Aaron and his brethrenBut the king stood forth among them and administered unto them. And they were pacified towards Aaron and those who were with him...
[01:07:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think this is cool because it goes back to this idea that you shared both of you earlier. God can use anybody in any way. So she gathered, she calls all these people to come and she thinks it's because they're going to take care of Aaron. And when When really, because everybody was gathered, they saw the miracle and then the whole household is converted.
And then 24, the whole multitude gathered together because the queen commanded them and they all are going to be converted. I think it's so cool. The king gets to administer. So the God has way more power than we do and he can do whatever he wants and use any situation for his good. So that is such a fun story about three important women in Book of Mormon stories.
And I love, love, love it. So this is what we're going to do then in the next segment. Because I think it's kind of been a theme throughout this whole episode is we are then going to talk about all the different ways we can serve or all of the different voices that really matter. And we'll talk about that in the next segment.
Segment 6
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[01:08:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Both of you had wonderfully strong feelings about the way Ammon and Aaron served. So I want you to teach us, what are the significant ways they served or the different voices that were used to convert people?
[01:08:18] Molly Collings: Okay. Well, I just think Ammon's approach to missionary work is so instructive. I also have the opportunity to be in a few of our missionary related working groups in my department, and we are so passionate about using the love, share, and buy approach to sharing the gospel.
And I just think Ammon It just shows this brilliantly.
[01:08:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Tell us the approach again. What's it called?
[01:08:43] Molly Collings: Love, share, invite.
[01:08:44] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. I'm going to write that down. Love, share, invite.
[01:08:48] Molly Collings: So Elder, Elder Ammon, I don't know what his last name is, so we'll call him Elder Ammon. He heads into the Lamanite territory as a missionary.
Picked up, taken to the king. He's in front of the king. Here's his opportunity. What's he gonna do? Does he invite him to be baptized? Or does he recognize maybe that's not the time? I don't know. He, here's his opportunity to preach, but he doesn't. He turns down the king's offer to wed one of his daughters.
And instead starts at a place of, how can I serve you? And then he served him diligently and with love. And I think whether it's ministering or missionary work, it's just an important example to learn about bringing others to the knowledge of the truth. Just start with loving. Elder Oaks talked about this in the leadership sessions of General Conference.
He said something to the effect of just point them towards Jesus Christ and he will do the rest serving people with love points them towards Jesus Christ Ammon's loving service led to softening the king's heart So he was open to listening and then eventually conversion and I feel like my conversion was the same It was because of examples of people it was because of Love that people showed me, which then led to an invitation and Elder Stevenson also talked about this in 2022 in the April general conference.
He said, whenever we show Christ like love toward our neighbor, we preach the gospel. Even if we do not voice a single word later in Alma 22, this love continues to have an impact. And then that's what Rachel's going to talk about.
[01:10:32] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Well, I, I have a lot of thoughts and I'm, I hope I can get them to be coherent. Um, I feel really strongly that each of us is put in a specific place for a specific reason. And, you know, all of these young men, Alma, the sons of Mosiah, they all split up and they went and they did something really brave. And I find it interesting, that Ammon needed to be the one there with King Lamoni.
He had, and he did, he served so beautifully and he was so brave and he followed the spirit and cut off all these arms. And then at the end of that story, he's like, we have to go rescue my brethren. Right? And they go and they get the others out of prison. And then it's his buddy, Aaron, who comes back and teaches the The father of King Lamoni.
And it, because I'm a missionary mom, it all just always comes back to that. But I think of like, the time when my son was in an area and he started teaching someone. He's like, this is really promising. It's really great. And then he was transferred. And then somebody else comes in. And does the baptizing, but it was somebody he knew and loved and it's like this big circle of working together and following the spirit and being in the right place at the right time.
And sometimes you're planting and sometimes you're reaping and, and it's just this beautifully intricate. Right? And so often we get to work with people we love in this plan, right? And I, I just love the fact that Ammon and Aaron were brethren, right? And they both had their own roles to play and they both taught, you know, one taught King Lamone, one taught his father, and they both have really similar experiences.
Everybody's fainting. Everybody's being enlightened. They come to, and so their stories kind of parallel each other. But I just really believe. That every person is put in, in the sphere of others who need them. And then sometimes people are put in our paths that we need. And it has to be that person. It couldn't be somebody else.
I really believe that. And I think that I'm, I'm really anxious when this life is done to watch, watch the like full length feature film version. Yeah. And be like, I'm going to have to watch it again because that was just like mind bending, you know, and watch how all of these intricate pieces come together.
It's just fascinating to me. And I, I really have a testimony that. There are certain people who need us, and we're put in certain places and given certain opportunities to meet certain people and, and help. And I just love that. I love that idea.
[01:13:17] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. I totally agree. I don't think there are any coincidences.
I think Elder Maxwell taught us that, that there are no coincidences, no cosmic random mishap that so and so met so and so. I mean, we have to acknowledge God's hand in all of it.
[01:13:32] Molly Collings: Divine orbits. He called them divine orbits. Yes.
[01:13:35] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. Divine orbits. That's so perfect. Absolutely. Well, and then I'm thinking of your voices, both of you and how each one of you are singing in your choir in the space that you're in and the work, Molly, that you are doing in the priesthood and family department is so important and so powerful and your voice We need a convert voice and we need a voice of a mom and we need a voice of a woman who's lost a father.
I mean, I just think that it isn't a coincidence. And then we have you, Rachel, where when I went back and I looked at that verse about how Ammon boldly testified of God, it takes boldness to post every single day on an Instagram account about Jesus. And your voice is being used in that realm. And I think that is powerful and brave.
So I think it's neat to think about all the voices that are used in this, in these books of scripture. And that really all of us are kazoos and any one of us can be used. Yeah. It's very good. And you might start out as a simple kazoo. Maybe some of you evolve into a different instrument, but we all have to begin somewhere.
And it's just that simple, sweet kazoo sound, um, doing your own song. And so thank you both of you for joining me today to have this discussion about these chapters. This was wonderful and spirit filled. So I love you both. So fun. It was so good to be here. Okay. So here's my last question for you then.
It's our summer of joy. And so I'm asking all of my guests at the end of each episode to tell me how do you count it joy when you're in the thick and trials of life?
[01:15:12] Molly Collings: I would say that's definitely. a work in progress. I think it just comes back to Elder Gong's talk about how Gong can take hard things and bad things and turn them into something good and amazing.
And I think I've seen that in my life enough times that now I trust him and I know that all things work together for our good and we can face life together. With confidence instead of fear because of that.
[01:15:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm. So good. I think that's a great reminder for anyone who's in the thick of trials and tribulation. Thank you. Molly, what about you, Rachel?
[01:15:52] Rachel Rhien Tucker: Um, I think while it's hard to realize it in the moment, it's important to understand that someone needs your experience, whatever hard thing you're going through. In the future, someone will need that. And you have the opportunity to be an instrument in God's hands by showing empathy.
And the only way to gain empathy is by living through something yourself. Sympathy and empathy are different. And it's good to have sympathy and to feel bad for people and to, and want to help them. But to have actual empathy, you have to know exactly, you know, you've lived it. So you know what they're going through.
And if we can just look at some of those things and say, okay, what am I learning? How can I use this to help someone else? It just shifts the perspective enough to, at least for me, help me understand that there's purpose sometimes in that pain and that we can do a lot of good with the things that we learn as we go through trials.
[01:16:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What a great perspective when you said there is purpose in that pain. I think, I love how you said that. What a great way to just, and you're not, and again, you can't count it joy when you're in it. That's for sure. But that purpose in pain you will after. So thank you. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, ladies.
That was it. We're done. That's the end of our discussion. What a great day. Ah, I love you both. Thanks for coming. So well prepared. You really knocked it out of the park. Good.
[01:17:16] Molly Collings: I think we should do this every day. I think we should just schedule an hour and have a gospel conversation with Tammy and Rachel.
[01:17:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Talk about Jesus. I know. I love it.