The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Listen to these words from Alma, quote, I wish from the inmost part of my heart and with great anxiety, even unto pain that you would hearken unto my words, unquote. Now sure he is speaking to the people of Ammonihah as well as Zeezrom and the chief judge Antiona. But we also know that these words are for us.

Alma wants us to hearken to his words, which we learned in Hebrew means to hear with the intent to obey. So as we study Alma chapters 13 through 16, we will understand why his words were so important that it gave him anxiety unto pain. And hopefully The spirit will encourage us to hear and then obey.

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week, and we really dig into your scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description.

And it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study, just like my friend Kim Miller. Hi, Kim. And I'm so grateful. I got to meet your cute daughter at studio five, who, by the way, came up to me and said, my mom said she knows you cause she listens to the podcast.

And she told me. That lady knows Jesus. That might be the highest compliment I've ever received in my whole life. Thank you, Kim. Oh, okay. Now here's my favorite thing about this study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today we have my two very good friends, Jenny Reeder and Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt.

Hi friends.

[00:01:34] Jenny Reeder: Hi, buddy.

[00:01:35] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Hey.

[00:01:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love these two women so much. So, so much. You know, it's funny, Jenny, is that when we, we, the last time I had you on, you were with another Jennifer. That's right. Jennifer Champoux.

[00:01:47] Jenny Reeder: We were all born at the same time in the era of the 70s.

[00:01:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Era of the Jennys and the Julies. Oh, that's funny.

Kimberly's too. Oh, Kimberly's. And Holly's. I have so many Holly friends. And Heather's. Heidi. Yeah. Very, very common names. How do you two know each other?

[00:02:06] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: You want to tell you want me to tell, well,

[00:02:11] Jenny Reeder: how much detail do you want? I was moved. I'll start it and you finish it. Let's just go back and forth. Okay.

Okay. I, um, I had a really wise Bishop who said you should go get a master's degree in human communication at Arizona state university. And I said, okay, because he was very, um, He was very in tune with the spirit. And so my granddad was like, well, you can just find a room to rent. And I'm like, it's not that easy.

Like I need furniture and stuff too. And he's like, Oh no, don't worry about it. So my mom and I drove down to Tempe, Arizona, and we were hanging out in the Institute and they had like numbers on the board of people that be well My mom was doing all this while I was in like training for my to teach in the communication department and Take it from there.

[00:03:10] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: So I had just lived decided to live by myself. I don't know. How old were we Jenny? I don't even know how old we were

[00:03:17] Jenny Reeder: 1999 Well, do the math, but I don't do public math.

[00:03:23] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: My landlady, I lived in this fourplex. She knocked the door. Would you take a roommate? I said, no. And she said, well, that's her though. And I'm like, and I liked her

[00:03:38] Jenny Reeder: standing right there. Maybe she had another apartment somewhere and she was like, well, I don't have any openings, but

[00:03:48] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: that could be it. But so Jenny moved in and we lived together in Arizona for all those years that she was at graduate school. We had to leave that apartment. Remember that? Pedro and we had to, sorry.

Okay. Anyway, we were roommates. That's the simple answer.

[00:04:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That was awesome. I love it. You guys are roommates. We have all three known each other for years, just through the course of our careers and friends. In fact, We've, I mean, we just spent the first 40 minutes of what we were supposed to be recording just talking and catching up, and it's not even enough time.

Like we could talk for hours. I love these women so much. I can't even believe it's the first time we've all three been together on the podcast. I've had you all separate. What is wrong? What is wrong with us? Because this is going to be long. I think it's going to take too long. We, I know this might, this episode might go long cause we have so much to say.

We got opinions and this is heavy stuff in these chapters. Oh gosh. I love you too so much. Okay. Well, everybody, if you want to know more about my guests, check out their bios, you're going to find those in our show notes, which are at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. And you can see their pictures and how, Hey, if you guys have a picture of you as roommates, find it and send it.

[00:05:00] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Oh no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In overall or hats or We play games. We're having more fun than you're, and we had more fun than anyone

[00:05:10] Jenny Reeder: remember. Well, we have a picture of us in, in like tan capris and denim shirts. Yep. Standing by palm trees. And you were like. 500 feet taller than I am.

[00:05:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Find that picture. I need a picture of you guys when you were roommates.

That's going to be so much fun. Oh my gosh. I'm going to love today's discussion. All right, everybody. So grab your scriptures and something to mark them with. We are going to dig into Alma chapters 13 through 17. Okay, ladies, right out of the gate. Tell me what did the Holy ghost teach you as you read these chapters?

[00:05:38] Jenny Reeder: I love chapter 13. And I've always loved this chapter. And I think part of it's because I feel like I'm known and I had a personality and I had a testimony and I had knowledge before I was born. And, um, I, I love that about this. I love that I have fit into this.

[00:06:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. That's pretty awesome that you saw yourself in this chapter because women will probably read this and not see themselves get ready ladies because you're going to see yourself in this chapter.

It's gonna be awesome. That's cool. Jenny.

[00:06:15] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Mine was really similar that it was just how focused that God is on individuals and that Of all of the people, so the same as Jenny with this idea of knowing that I was known pre mortally that I was given specific things to do, but also that the Ezra, you know, that of M and I, huh?

Here's this one person that. All this mess that they go through. And here's this one man who's going to repent and change and be different as a result of these teachings. But then the way that this section ends in chapter 15 and the way that Alma ministers to Amulek one by one. And that for me was just kind of this overarching theme of how interested God is in individuals one by one.

[00:07:06] Jenny Reeder: You know, I love that you said that we're already starting. But, um, Alma had done the exact same thing to Amulek. When he met him, Amulek welcomes him into his home and Alma teaches him about the restoration of, or the gospel of Jesus Christ. And then he, they continue to minister each other. And I think it's such a beautiful reciprocal relationship, but then you get Zeezrom into that mix as well.

And I think it's incredible because all three of them, all three of them experienced a very dramatic change of heart. And, um, their hearts are turned by each other.

[00:07:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh. Powerful.

[00:07:48] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well, I think part of what I like about that, and you know, I, this isn't necessarily fair because we did talk for 40 minutes beforehand and I'm praying today for comfort.

I'm praying today for clarity. I'm praying today for the Holy Ghost to minister to me. And I think about. What you're saying there that Alma was customized to be Zeezrom's teacher, and he had, there was this beautiful reciprocity between he and Amulek, but it affirms for me that my suffering, my experiences, my pain, A, are sanctifying me.

So that's me and my relationship to God. But also B, binding me to others and saying, I know I'm not going through what you're going through. But I see you and I understand because I've been in pain too. And that's just, I mean, that's just the covenant path. This is the doctrine of Christ.

[00:08:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: In fact, Jennifer, will you read that verse for us when Alma takes care of Amulek?

You bet. I've got it. 15.

[00:08:56] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Yep. 15. This is Alma 15, 18. Now, as I said, Alma, having seen all these things, therefore, he took Amulek and came over to the land of Zarahemla and took him to his own house and did administer unto him and his tribulations and strengthened him in the Lord.

[00:09:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how you emphasized his own house.

[00:09:21] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Yeah. I'm not so quick to do that, you guys. I, I'm a private, believe it or not, kind of an introverted, I like my space. And, and so to bring someone home is intimate and it's saying, I trust you. I mean, I brought Jenny in, um, right at the beginning, man. No, it wasn't. We had fun.

Um, I just think, but, but to know in that moment by the Holy ghost, this person needs you. That's what I have to offer. And I love the language there that he administered. This is ministering that you have to know someone in that way to be able to say, look, I can't stand for you to not have the help you need.

[00:10:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you both of you. I thought those were great insights, you know, for me, as I was reading this and, and, you know, both of, you know, this as being teachers of scripture, teaching seminaries and institutes and gospel doctrine, you go through and you read the chapter and you teach the principle, you teach the truth that's in that chapter.

Something has come alive in me recently where I'm starting to ask questions like, Why? Why is this chapter here? And for the first, I would say probably for the first time ever, I'm going back and reading what's happening, even though we've already studied all those chapters before, I'm seeing this connection.

Like there is. There is purpose in why these chapters come the way they do. And I think for the first time in my life, I was like, why is chapter 13 here before chapters 14, 15, and 16? I've never considered that until we got to this time. And so in the next segment, I'm going to ask you that question because these are some powerful chapters in the book of Alma and there's a very important role that I think 13 plays.

So we'll do that next.

Segment 2

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[00:11:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Everyone, grab your scriptures and turn to Alma chapter 13. Now here's what I'm going to tell you. Read Alma chapters 13 through 16. Read these four chapters before you even begin listening to this episode, because if you do that, it's going to make so much more sense. This is an intense, deep discussion about these chapters, so make sure you do that.

And after I got done reading Alma chapters 13 through 16, the question that came to my mind was, Why does Alma chapter 13 come first? So that's what I want to know from the two of you. Why do you think Alma 13 comes before this incredible story in Alma chapters 15 and 16?

[00:11:57] Jenny Reeder: You know, I think in order to answer that question, we have to go back onto the other page of Alma chapter 12, um, 12 verse nine, where Alma says it's given unto many to know the mysteries of God. According to the heat and diligence, which they give unto him. So we can learn more once we accept something and act upon it. And so I think that they are getting this, this information in Alma chapter 13, so that they can act on it. And I think acting on it happens later when they are witnesses to. Horrible situations.

[00:12:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I like that connection so much, Jenny. That's good.

[00:12:40] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: I also love that you said foundations of the world because I was in Mosiah four, um, yesterday and in Mosiah chapter four, verse six, this is Benjamin and he's taught the words of the angel and he's the people have viewed themselves.

They want the atonement of Jesus Christ to be working in their lives, but look at him verse. Six, about halfway through, this is Mosiah chapter four, and they says the atonement, which has been prepared from the foundation of the world that thereby salvation might come to him. That should put his trust in the Lord and should be diligent in keeping his commandments and continue in the faith, even into the end of his mortal.

His life, I mean the life of the mortal body, but then it comes again in verse seven, which was prepared the atonement, which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the fall of Adam. So Benjamin's teeing us up saying, Hey, look at the plan of happiness. Then Alma is going to do it again.

It's intertextuality is the term for it, right? Where Mormon is, is drawing this picture for us. But I think there's another question in why is it here? Because I've always wondered, okay, here's Alma. He's leaving the judgment seat. I'm going to go focus on my priesthood responsibilities. He goes first to his hometown, Zarahemla.

Everyone loves Alma five and all of the questions there, right? There's no talk of four ordination or the priesthood. Am I remembering correctly?

[00:14:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right.

[00:14:15] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Then he goes on to his next city. And it's interesting because I've always thought when I put Alma five and Alma seven side by side and ask the question, which audience do I want to be in?

[00:14:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right.

[00:14:27] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: I'd rather get the Alma seven message, I think, where, where I'm, I'm not being not this inquiry, but he's going to the people in Gideon and he's teaching to them about the condescension of Christ and following the path of Jesus Christ and, and work working this direction. Now he's going to go, I mean, so there's degrees of commitment of the groups of people he's visiting.

And now all of a sudden he's an Ammonihah and these people hate him. They don't want anything to do with him or the church, yet he's giving them the richest and purest doctrine. So that begs an even further question. So yes, why is it right here? But also why is it for them? And, and in my mind, it's because it is through the doctrine of the priesthood that we are changed and transformed.

That priesthood, priesthood enables us to experience ordinances and covenants, which allow us to be truly saved and sanctified through the power of Jesus Christ.

[00:15:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Both of you teed that up so perfectly with what we're going to talk about next. I want everyone to know like the three of us, I feel like we poured our souls into this main topic. I mean, we went back and forth in messages with each other about what we wanted to talk about, what stood out to us and the importance of Alma chapter 13 in our lives.

Not as met, not only as Christ's children. or as his daughters or as members of the church, but as women. And so I just think there's so much to discuss. And I love my favorite part about what both you said is you both repeated that what we're about to talk about next has, has existed from the foundation of the world.

before the world was created, what we're going to talk about. And I think that's important because I guess for me, I was like, Oh, wait a minute. This wasn't an afterthought. It wasn't like heavenly father sent us to earth and said, Oh wait, I forgot where they're going to need something else. And I love how some of my guests, they gave other names for the plan of redemption.

They called it the plan of keep going the plan of love. I thought those were great ways to describe this. And so this plan, it works, it's successful and it does not exist or work. Without what you've just talked about, which is the priesthood and listen to this quote from Hugh Nibley. He said this talking about the plan of salvation or plan of redemption.

He says, this is the timeless ongoing plan of which the priesthood is a conductor of power or energy. Is that the coolest? I've never thought that the priesthood was a conductor of power or energy for the plan of redemption to work. And so in the next segment, we are going to talk about this priesthood and how it was all prepared before we even came to earth.

We'll do that next.

Segment 3

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[00:17:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, everyone, we are in Alma chapter 13 and we're only going to cover verses one through three.

[00:17:41] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: So Tammy, with that quote that you just read, Um, I'm curious what each of you pictured or imagined, like, if you were to put an element to the power of this conductor of the priesthood, did you have an element come into your mind, um, or a visualization when you read the quote?

[00:18:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I mean, for me, I'm so like, Like a kid, because I just imagined a train conductor and like pulling the horn and like letting us know it's coming. And, and I imagine God in charge of this great freight train with so much power and energy pushing forward and the work that that priest did does how, I don't know, I just thought of a train conductor.

Is that what you were going for? What did you, I want to know what you thought.

[00:18:23] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well, I saw water. Like when you said it, I felt water and I felt the movement. Like we saw the Provo river the other day and it's moving really pretty fast. And in my mind I saw this flow of water and then my brain started geeking out about ordinances and use of water in some of the ordinances, right?

And. And my brain just saw water, moving it, conducting it. I don't know, Jenny, what do you think? I like that.

[00:18:54] Jenny Reeder: So I am one of my new favorite friends from the past is Anne Cannon and she talks a lot about prayer, but I think, and then I also love what Parley P. Pratt talks about the Holy Ghost. However, I think.

All of this applies to priesthood because it's the power of God and it's the connection to God. So Ann Cannon says, The power in prayer seems to me much like that of electricity. As the wire is the conductor of the electric current, so it seems to me is prayer, the channel through which inspiration comes.

Okay. So I think it's that connection. It's that, um, tuning into the right, like old school radio. When you're tuning into the right station, you have to get at the exact right point. And that's what I think that is, that connection. And then I love what Parley P. Pratt says, this is something that I discovered when I was in the MTC and I immediately try, it was from one of the missionary library books and.

I immediately tried to find one in Italian once I was on my mission in Italy, to be able to translate it into Italian, to be able to teach it to the people. And here, Parley P. Pratt's talking about the Holy Ghost. Um, but again, I think we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost through the priesthood. And as a result, it is part of the priesthood.

It's the power of God. He says it quickens all the intellectual. Faculties increases, enlarges, expands, and purifies all the natural passions and affections. It develops, cultivates, and matures our nature. It inspires virtue, kindness, goodness, tenderness, gentleness, and charity. It develops, invigorates, and strengthens.

And then he finishes with this. It is marrow to the bone. Joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the ears and life to the whole being. And I love that. It reminds me of the initiatory, but it also reminds me of that power and beauty of life coming into. Us of being organized out of the chaos from the dust that we were organized and created, and that intelligence always existed, but it's giving it form.

[00:21:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Awesome. So awesome. I can't believe you just had those quotes ready. We didn't even coordinate that.

[00:21:18] Jenny Reeder: Yeah. Some of it was from my women's conference talk. Some of it was from my lesson yesterday.

[00:21:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. That is powerful stuff. Well then, as you were talking, I'm imagining the conductor being the godhead.

Like all, all those powers and just this energy and this, of course the Holy Ghost is there.

[00:21:37] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well, and that's the thing about the priesthood that the power of the priesthood is that it connects us like president or elder Bednar in his last talk, he, he said, I mean, he didn't say it this way, but what I heard him say is I'm going to level up stillness for you and, and the level up is the purpose of stillness is to commune with the Godhead.

[00:21:58] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Let's just look it up right now. Can we do that? Jennifer, look up the quote right now. And then I, cause I want to read his words exactly.

[00:22:06] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: The principal purposes of sacred time and holy places are exactly the same to repeatedly focus our attention upon heavenly father and his plan, which is what we're talking about, right?

The Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement, which was prepared from the foundations of the earth. The edifying power of the Holy Ghost, which is given to me, I, I am parenthetically talking, right? I'm not entirely quoting elder Bednar here, so you'll have to go check the source and read it. But the edifying power of the Holy Ghost and the promises associated with the sacred ordinance and covenants of the Savior's restored gospel, all of that available through priesthood, which I have functioning in my life because when I was an eight year old little girl, I chose to be baptized.

And that's the thing, that to be still, I can focus myself. I can, and he goes on in that next paragraph, this is towards the end of his talk, just this last conference, but that he's, he's saying only as we return to our homes with the spiritual perspectives and strength obtained in those holy places and activities can then, can we then sustain our focus upon the primary purposes of mortal life?

and overcome the temptations so prevalent in our father, our fallen world. How? By focusing and riveting my attention on the Godhead, the father, the son and the Holy Ghost because of priesthood power functioning in my life.

[00:23:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, go with me then. Let's look at this. When you said, because as an eight year old little girl, I made covenant.

I got baptized. I entered into that covenant and I was just struck because we all knew about this plan before we were born. And that is exactly what we're learning in Alma chapter 13. We're just going to do verses one through three. So grab something to mark your scriptures with. And as we mark these up, I just want you guys to jump in with any of your thoughts because here's what struck me.

Verse one. He says, and Alma saying, again, my brethren. I would cite your minds forward to the time, isn't it interesting they didn't say backward interesting.

Yeah. To the time when the Lord God gave these commandments unto his children. He's talking about our pre earth life right there. That is what it is.

In fact, if you go then to verse three, where it says in the first place, and then again, in verse five, in the first place, that is meaning pre earth life. That's what the first place is. It's not like we say it. And in the first place, I'd like to say that, like, that's not the context. He's literally saying in the first place in our pre earth life when we all live together as a family.

So that's the context. That's where we are. Then he says, I would that you should remember that the Lord God ordained priests after this whole, his holy order, which was after the order of his son. Now Alma is the high priest and he's teaching a people here. I feel like he's saying, let me tell you where I get my authority from because they don't know this.

They've just taught about the plan of redemption and now he's saying, we've all known about this and how important it is to have the priesthood on the earth and the role that I'm playing as a high priest. And we're going to talk more about that, how it's mirrors that of the savior, but he's just giving them a foundational principle, like I'm the high priest, but this after the order of his son, and you're going to see that a lot in this place after the order of the son, you're going to see it in seven, which was after the order.

And I thought this was interesting because this idea is when something says after the order. All right. It means to share in nature, or to share in basic qualities. And the example that was given by Hugh Nibley was, a dog is after the order of a dog, or a flea is after the order of a flea. And here we have, hold on, this holy priesthood, which is after the order of the Son.

[00:25:39] Jenny Reeder: Which is interesting because that also goes with, um, to fill the order, the measure of our creation.

[00:25:46] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Talk to me about that.

[00:25:47] Jenny Reeder: So I just think about that in the temple and, um, in the scriptures. And I know, um, Pat Holland has talked about filling the measure of our creation, but I feel like it's what we were organized or created to do.

And, um, It's beautiful, but I am also keep thinking of section 84 in the doctrine and covenants about how in the ordinance is there of the power of godliness is manifest. I love how elder Packer connected the word order or Dane and ordinance. Yes. And he put them all to set things in order to. We, to be organized after God, to become like God or Elohim.

And I think there's something about that order and being ordained and in the ordinance that we see the power of godliness. So from the very beginning, um, of course, when we're, when we're, Many of us don't remember all of that, but when we're eight years old, many of us do have memories or however old we were when we were baptized and, and received the Holy Ghost, that's an ordinance and it's manifesting the power of God and it gives us understanding and it gives us the station that we need to tune to with that electrical current.

[00:27:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, Jenny, now I'm struck with verse three, because I think what you just described happened before we even came to this earth. Because this is so cool. Verse three, we read that for us, Jenny.

[00:27:15] Jenny Reeder: Yes. And this is the manner after which they were ordained, being called and prepared from the foundation of the world, according to the foreknowledge of God on account of their exceeding faith and good works.

In the first place, being left to choose good or evil. Therefore, they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith. are called with a holy calling. Yay. With that holy calling, which was prepared with, and according to a preparatory redemption for such.

[00:27:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. In verse three, though, when it said in the first place, being left to choose that idea, literally we were left alone.

to choose. That was what struck me. From everything I've read, the way it's being interpreted, being left was when Heavenly Father was like, okay, I'm going to let you choose now. You get to choose good or evil. But there was even agency in pre earth life. And that, it strikes me, there was exceedingly great faith in pre earth life.

You think it's just obvious, like, you're, you're my heavenly parents. Of course I'm going to follow you. It's a no brainer. But before we were born, we We're left alone to choose good or evil. And those of us who chose good, who had exceedingly great faith were called to a holy calling. That order. Oh, we saw it exist.

[00:28:38] Jenny Reeder: I think it's the measure of our creation. Yes. Like that's how we were organized and created is with that piece of godliness, which gave us the choice of faith, which when we chose faith increased according to the heat and diligence that we give.

[00:28:56] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Yeah. And that if we want to put our life in order now, it's through ordinances. And, and so to reorder because we've fallen and the fall is messy, but I, I love this verse. This verse has been a touchstone for me for decades.

[00:29:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Tell me why.

[00:29:16] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well, because it shows me who I was then. Like maybe I remember the first time I heard Sherry do say something like I mean, she, she talks a lot about this, about knowing what we were called to do or, um, remembering that no one can take our place.

That's right. And remembering who we were. And I think it stirred something in me to go to ask that question. Who was I? Pre mortally I get glimpses through my patriarchal blessing, but I can really validate it when I come here. And I, okay, so one time years and years ago, it was an evening session of state conference and the general authority, the visiting authority had called one of the bishops up and he was doing, I don't know what he was doing, but he, he asked this bishop, did you have faith before you came here?

And the bishops like, no, it was right in front of me. I didn't need faith. And I remember going, he's wrong. He's so wrong. He totally had faith. And maybe the guy went here. I don't remember, but my heart went here because it was so clear. Like you said, Tammy, we saw our heavenly parents and we wanted to grow up to be like mom and dad.

But we knew that it had to happen through Jesus Christ and he was in our state. He had to still go condescend and have the mortal experience. That's the huge faith is to say, I'm going to trust in my savior, Jesus Christ, to go through. And to perform the toning sacrifice to redeem me. And now the faith is he did it.

And that's all that matters. And, and to be able to be so riveted at, okay, pre mortally. I've got it in my scriptures. Who was I then? Well, I was. Full of faith. I was full of good works and I loved and prized my agency. Who am I? The same. That's who I am now. That's my eternal nature. And, and I love that about myself.

I, you know, that I can look at that and to say, I am a woman of great faith. And I am a woman who values her agency, and I am a woman who loves to go about doing good. And I'm enabled through the power of the priesthood.

[00:31:45] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just wrote next to that verse, this is who I am.

[00:31:48] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Yeah, it is.

[00:31:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And you both said that in what the spirit taught you, you both talked about how this chapter teaches you who you are.

As women. Wow.

[00:32:00] Jenny Reeder: Can I also add, Jen, you used to always say that you were on the flower committee during the creation. I did. I still believe it. I do too.

[00:32:09] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I believe that about me.

[00:32:11] Jenny Reeder: Were you on the flower committee?

[00:32:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I was on the flower committee because every time I see in the spring, a field of weeds that has a little purple flower in the weeds, that's me.

I did that because I love little tiny baby flowers. I currently have. That's why Tammy's planning their wedding. Yeah. You bet I'm planning your wedding. We have a Pinterest board just in case you're wondering, Jennifer, I'll invite you. So when you find some fun Pinterest, we're getting reader married.

[00:32:37] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Yes, we are.

[00:32:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. All of this then. Oh my gosh. I love this discussion because now I'm really, really excited for the next segment because we're going to just talk about the word ordained. Completely. And who's ordained and what does this look like? Because like I said, it's easy to read chapter 13 and think we're just talking about men.

And while Alma is giving some background about how he's the high priest and it's going to build to the savior, where do we fit in as women? Yes, we are verse three, but I think we fit in even more and the priesthood is awesome. So we'll talk about that in the next segment.

Segment 4

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[00:33:19] Tammy Uzelac Hall: One of the things I noticed in Alma chapter 13 It's seven times the word ordained is repeated. In fact, it's the most times in the entire book of Mormon in this one chapter, Alma 13. So you can go through and circle it, highlight it. I want to talk about this word ordained. So what do you two have? Because we have all three of us were talking about this.

This is the one thing we both, all of us had opinions on and I loved the conversation. So I don't even know if we should, should we start with church history? What should we do? You ladies?

[00:33:47] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well, Jenny, Jenny started us with a president Packer. She referenced president Packer. He actually gave that talk that she's talking about.

Hold on. I'll tell you the title of it. It's just called ordinances. Of course you have this. Yeah. Cause I still, I love this talk. He gave it on my birthday when I was nine years old, but I don't remember it. It's total science. I love that in verse one that it says that after the order of his son to teach.

And whenever I get the chance to teach, I feel it the most profoundly. And so often we're, we're taught that we should teach with power and authority. Where else would that power and authority come from? Right. So the talk, the reference of the talk is Boyd K. Packer, February 3rd, 1980 at BYU. And he talks about order.

It's order, ordain, and ordinance. An order is to put in ranks or rows in proper sequence or relationship. Ordain is the process of putting things in rows or proper relationship. And ordinance is the ceremony by which things are put in proper order. Now, the other day, my friend texted me and she and I have been in this, in an immersive study of the priesthood.

And we're trying to understand based on president Nelson's invitation to study section 109. And based on his teaching of priesthood keys in the April 2024 general conference, and we discovered, we went back and we were studying where's the first instance of priesthood and it comes in the book of Exodus and that often teaches us, um, it often shows us here is the way this word is going to be used in the canon.

It establishes it for us. Okay, but she texted me the other day and she says, I want to ask you a question. What does it mean to you to function with priesthood under the direction of priesthood keys from your stake president? And I had to really think about that when I was set apart as a stake relief society president, I prayed to feel priesthood authority and, and he didn't use that language.

And so when he finished, I asked him, I said, did you mean to give me authority? And it was kind of funny. And he said, Actually, I did, and I'm going to ratify it. And that has functioned in my life in a profound way. It wasn't ordained, but he was, and I think a lot about this and, and I, I feel. This ability to do things to teach and to lead in my sphere because of his ordination.

But Jenny, this is where I think you need to help us to understand, because I just want to say one more thing in, in verse four, when. Alma is saying, let's contrast this to the potential you could have had or the great privilege. Joseph Smith in April of 1842, he talked about, he said, you're now placed in a situation when you can act according to the sympathies, which God has planted in your bosoms.

If you live up to these principles, how great and glorious. If you live up to your privilege. The angels cannot be restrained from being your associates. If you will be pure, nothing can hinder. And, and again, at the end of the chapter, Alma's going to talk about angels. So the word privilege, the word angel, the word ordained, All really got my attention because Joseph turned a key for me.

[00:37:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I just want to insert really quickly to support everything that Jennifer just said, because my daughter was recently set apart to be part of her young women's presidency group. And every time the Bishop set someone apart, he said to the young girl, And I bestow upon you all of the rights, privileges, and powers associated with this calling.

To a 15 year old girl, that, I love him for that. And I, in fact, I actually texted him to make sure I was hearing him say that correctly because when he said it, I was like, what a wise man, that is exactly the wording we need. And, uh, And it is consistent, and I actually had it supported by Elder Newman, who was recently released from the General Sunday School presidency.

I asked him about that wording, and he said when he was in a state presidency, he used the same wording to set people apart. That you have to give them the rights, powers, and privileges associated with that. Specific calling to everyone and I just think it's awesome because the way it works in my mind is men have the power of the priesthood to do saving ordinances or to ordain and pass on that power to us as women.

And my little 15 year old daughter has that power. So it's not even an age thing. I just think it's awesome. Okay. So Jenny, now go give us church history.

[00:38:55] Jenny Reeder: First, let me go back to what you just said that when I was, um, Set apart as a temple worker, I was given the authority to perform ordinances. And I think it is so important to recognize the ordaining of women in the temple.

We cannot talk about ordination and priesthood without talking about the temple.

[00:39:20] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Also, Tammy, just to solidify your, um, the handbook 18. 11 under setting apart members and to serve in callings. Members who are called and sustained to most church positions should be set apart to serve in that position. And then it says during the setting apart, the person is given one.

Authority to act in the calling and two words of blessings as guided by the spirit.

[00:39:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: There it is.

[00:39:50] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: It's in the handbook. And so, so for you to be able to say, sorry to interrupt you, Jen, but to be able to say, look, this is the instruction. Every one of us should be given power and authority to work in the sphere in which we have been called to.

[00:40:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely.

[00:40:08] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Okay, Jen. Oh, sorry. I hope you didn't forget.

[00:40:11] Jenny Reeder: No, I didn't. Because I thought of this when you were talking earlier, when you said you were, when you were set apart as state release society president, you said that Joseph turned the key for you. I'm going to correct you. He didn't say that. He said, I turned the key.

To you and that is completely different and I think it is so important to recognize this and this actually came up in the 1850s when um, Brigham Young and George A. Smith Asked Eliza R. Snow to give them the to loan them the Nauvoo Relief Society minutes She kept those minutes and on April 28th. That is what he said.

He said I now turn The key to you in the name of God and this society shall rejoice and knowledge and intelligence shall flow down from this time. Now, when in the 1850s, Brigham Young and George A. Smith were trying to remember the words of Joseph and they wanted to publish in the Deseret News, his words to the Relief Society.

And they changed those words at that time to say, I now turn the key in your behalf. Now, there is a huge difference between three of those things in, um, what Joseph said, I turn the key to you, what Brigham Young and George A. Smith said, I turn the key in your behalf. And even Jen, what you said, he turned the key for me.

There's a difference. He's giving you the key. It is to you and you have those keys. So, um, I think we have to, in order to really understand this, we have to go back to section 25. Bye bye. Of the Doctrine and Covenants. And we know this is a revelation given to Emma Smith in July of 1830. And she was called in this section to be an elect lady, um, whom I have called, which we know that Joseph talks about this later in his journal in 1842, when the Relief Society is organized, that that means to be selected or chosen.

Elected, called, selected, chosen. But he says in verse seven, Thou shalt be ordained under his hand to expound scripture and to exhort the church according as it shall be given thee by my spirit. And so that word ordain comes as early as 1830 after the church is organized, after Joseph has received the priesthood.

So then if we go forward 12 years, it takes 12 years from the time of this revelation to the time of the organization of the Relief Society. When on March 17th, 1842 in Nauvoo, they, um, elect Emma to be the president of the Relief Society. This is under the parliamentary procedure. Joseph Smith proposed that sisters elect a presiding officer to preside over them and let that presiding officer choose two counselors to assist in the duties of her office, that he would ordain them.

to preside over the society and let them preside just as the presidency presides over the church, meaning the first presidency. Um, and he said, let this presidency serve as a constitution and if any officers are wanted to carry out the designs of the institution, let them be appointed and set apart. As deacons, teachers, and et cetera are among us.

So there's so much that we can take from that. Um, so first of all, they did ordain. That was the word they used on March 17th because Emma had already been ordained in 1830. Then her counselors, Sarah Cleveland and Elizabeth Ann Whitney were ordained. That word is also used in 1880 when John, John Taylor is the one that ordained them.

In 1880. John Taylor, as the prophet of the church, decided that they needed a central Relief Society organization, and he ordained. Eliza R. Snow and Elizabeth Ann Whitney and Zina Young as counselors in the Relief Society to give them that power and authority. Now, I think it's also interesting on, on April 28th, 1842, Jen, you refer to this, um, Earlier, but Joseph Smith visited the Relief Society and these are the words specifically to the women.

He says that, um, the church is not organized in its proper order and cannot be until the temple is completed. And he later says to Sarah Kimball, the church is not organized until the women were organized. And the women were not organized until the temple had been received and they were prepared to receive.

To go to the temple. So it all fits together. This ordination of priesthood of temple and of women as leaders of relief society. Eliza Arsenault said at one point that the relief society is a quorum of the priesthood, which I think is so beautiful and so, um, Thought provoking. And when we can realize that power of godliness that we have as women in relief society, both to lead and to minister.

It is the power of godliness.

[00:45:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It is. So how did we go from the word ordained to set apart? It, like, it got maybe lost or something because

[00:45:37] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Doesn't the Webster 1828, when you look up ordained, have set apart as one of the, the definitions for it?

[00:45:47] Jenny Reeder: That word is used for women, um, up until about the turn of the century, which I think is really interesting because, okay, Webster's dictionary says to set, to establish in a particular office or order.

So it's, and then the fourth definition is to set apart for an office to a point.

[00:46:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What I'm feeling and understanding, and so correct me if I'm wrong, but I, I feel like what this is saying to us is Every single one of us have, we all know this through our covenants, we have the power of the priesthood. But when we are as women set apart to a specific calling, it's important to recognize that we have all of the rights, powers, and privileges, priesthood rights, priesthood power, priesthood privileges to officiate in that particular calling.

So that when we get direction or inspiration, it goes back to that whole idea of counseling with your councils for everyone to remember. Like that's And Jennifer, as the stake Relief Society president, you then will re, you will receive, right? You will receive the inspiration and instruction for your sisters that you are over and the stake president will receive the instruction over you and, and willing to maybe honor that.

[00:47:06] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Yeah. And one of the things that Jenny and I, for a lot of years, it feels like we've had so many conversations about this. I just, I love what Relief Society is, I love what it can be, and it's not a social structure, it's not meant to be a society like that of the world, it is, it is a priesthood organization, and And again, that's when I think about living up to privilege that ultimately Joseph was saying this is about getting the temple ordinances and covenants intact so that you can be exalted and saved.

And this last general conference and the major focus on covenants that if I really want to access power in my life. It is through covenants in the temple. And, you know, the other day, I went and I got to do initiatory and then an endowment, did it all in a, in a row. And to think about that context of the initiatory and being with women and experiencing and receiving that at their authorized hands of what I am washed and anointed to.

I don't know. I don't know that I can fully articulate what I'm feeling right now, except for that we're placed in such a unique. situation and we've got to live up to this privilege.

[00:48:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Jennifer, I agree with you like a thousand percent. I cannot articulate what I'm feeling. And listen, I know I'm going to have to go back and relisten to this episode many times in order to soak it all in.

I mean, just the comment, Jenny, that the Relief Society is an appendage to the priesthood. What? That blew my mind. Okay. So with all of this, then I just, I have a follow up question. What does it, cause I wrote this down when you said it, but I want to know for you, Jenny reader. What does it mean for you when he said, turn the key to you?

[00:49:20] Jenny Reeder: It means when I am a Relief Society called and set apart as a Relief Society president. I'm not now, but I have been three times in the past that I was given. The, the keys to understand our Heavenly Father's plan for these women in the Relief Society. And to understand what I could do to bless them and to lift them up and to guide them.

Um, I think it means that I remember when I was, um, The second time I was released to study president and I had been diagnosed with leukemia and there, and my bishop wanted to keep me in my office as president, and I had to do a lot of that from my bed and I sent a lot of emails and I sent a lot of cards in the mail.

And, um, I felt that mantle. I felt that authority when I wrote to people and I. Just let the spirit guide my, whether I was using a pen or my keyboard. And I felt as if I was giving them blessings and giving them guidance. It was a very direct. And it was incredible. It enlarged me and magnified me and expanded me in ways that I'd never felt before.

[00:50:47] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Gosh. You know, as you were saying all of that. It reminded me of this quote from Sherry Dew, because I think you several times had this exact experience because she says, she asked the question, what does it mean to have access to priesthood power? She's asking the question all women are thinking. And then she says, it means that we can receive revelation, be blessed and aided by the ministering of angels.

But here's the part that stood out to me, Jenny learned apart the veil that separates us from our heavenly father. That's amazing. Having priesthood power, we as women, we can learn to part the veil that separates us from our heavenly father. Be strengthened to resist temptation, be protected and be enlightened and made smarter than we are.

all without a mortal intermediary. And so that that's pretty awesome. And I think you had, I think all three of us have had those moments where we received revelation, learned to part the veil. And it goes back to what you said, Jennifer, about the temple and the receiving those ordinances and entering into those covenants.

[00:51:50] Jenny Reeder: Can I add one more on April 28th, when Joseph said that the church wasn't organized until the temple had been organized. And then he said he turned the key. To the women, um, it was a week later that the men received the endowment in the Redbrick store on the second floor where the Relief Society met.

And a couple of days after that, Newell K. Whitney, it was only men at that time, Newell K. Whitney, who was the Bishop. Um, came to Relief Society, his wife was a counselor in the Relief Society presidency. And he talked about the blessing that he had received in his endowment. But he says this, in the beginning, God created man, male and female, and bestowed upon man, certain blessings peculiar to a man of God.

of which woman partook so that without the female, all things cannot be restored to the earth. It takes all to restore the priesthood. It's not until a year and a few months later in September of 1843 that Emma receives her endowment and she then is able to give it to other women. But I think that's such a powerful, beautiful thing.

From the very beginning, um, Newell K. Whitney knew that women were such an integral part of the endowment.

[00:53:11] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: I love that. It goes with what I was thinking about because do you remember, um, president Nelson, and this was kind of when you said the Sherry do statement about parting the veil and then just even to amplify what you've just said, Jen, Jenny, I love you and thank you so much.

For giving yourself to this work and for telling the stories of our sisters and our foremothers. And I know they walk with you. I do. I know that about you, but I just thank you. And, um, I've loved watching you these decades of just being true and fervent in, in helping us to see our history and how vital that is.

Um, okay, so President Nelson said in the talk, the temple, your spiritual foundation, this is October 2021. He said, I plead with you to seek prayerfully and consistently to understand your temple covenants and ordinances. And then he promised spiritual doors will open. You will learn how to part the veil between heaven and earth.

How to ask God's angels to attend you and how better to receive direction from heaven. I feel like that's this huge arc between Joseph Smith and the living prophet in a consistent and clear message. I mean, he was speaking to the general church and at that time, that was the fall before my mother would die.

And. And I didn't know, I mean, I remember riveting myself to this statement and really thinking about this, about what is the power available to me through temples and how will I access those things? And then she left us at least in body and, and just my witness of the ministering of angels and, and how the heavens can be parted and, and it does have to do with being in the temple, but it also has to do with the temple being in me. That chance I have to really focus on living my covenants every day.

[00:55:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you for those words. Thanks for sharing that experience about your mother. Oh, I'm sorry. It's sad. But both of you, you know, I have, I knew you would come so well prepared. This has been an incredible discussion about priesthood and privileges and power.

And Jenny, when you said the quote, it takes all to restore the priesthood. I love, love, love, love that because then I went back to how we started with Alma 13. We were all there when we learned about it and experienced priesthood. And so of course it's going to take all of us to restore the priesthood.

And then there is a goal that all of us have, which is to return to live with our heavenly parents again. And we're going to talk about a word that describes that and an experience these people have in the next segment.

Segment 5

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[00:56:15] Tammy Uzelac Hall: let's turn to Alma chapter 14 and I'm going to turn the time over to Jennifer and she is going to tell us the story and it's going to lead us into a great discussion about a word that is repeated several times throughout 12 and 13 that we haven't talked about yet. So go ahead, Jennifer, hit it.

[00:56:30] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Sure. I feel like so much of what we've done is talk about.

Covenants and making covenants, and now we're gonna get to see what it looks like to live them.

[00:56:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm-Hmm. and that

[00:56:39] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: discipleship. As I was reading this, I kept asking myself the question, what's my limit of my discipleship?

[00:56:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And so, well, I'm gonna put that question on my paper.

[00:56:49] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: It's a good question. What is the limit of my discipleship?

And I hope that there is no limit, but here they are and, and they've, alman, emek have taught so powerfully they've taught plainly. Is the way Mormon talks about it. And Zeezrom is miserable. He is just struggling and suffering going. I, I've lied and I need to repent and change, but they've taken Alma and Amulek in verse four and they've bound them up with strong cords.

And in fact, I've asked myself, what does that look like today? How do people, how do righteous people get bound up in strong courts? Is it? Maybe social media trolling like some different things that way, but they're being bound up and people are witnessing against them and they're testifying Against them and then you've got you've got Zeezrom again.

He's harrowed up. Don't you love that Mormon uses the same word? To describe him as he does Alma in his sin and guilt and they've cast these good men out and then they've gathered all the believers that didn't get away and this is verse eight, they're casting them into a fire along with their records and their scriptures and Alma and Amulek are brought to witness it.

And I just, in my mind, yesterday, we actually were role playing this in our family. And my son was saying, Mom, if I were Amulek, I would be burying my face in your chest. He said, I would be so sad and crying with what's going on. And Amulek is in so much pain because these are his people. These are his kin, his neighbors, his friends, maybe even his family.

And how, how can we witness this awful scene? He says in verse 10, and can't we use the power of God and stretch forth our hand and exercises power and make it stop. And, and Alma has these two butts.

[00:58:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and I think in verse 10, that's a very valid question because he just got done talking about the priesthood and the power and the good that can do.

Cause if you continue to read 13, you're going to read about McKesson and this incredible power. So I, that is a question I would ask, like, you just got done talking about it. How about we use a little. A little bit of it here.

[00:59:07] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Prove it. Show me. Right. And Alma's like, the spirit's telling me no. And that again, we have to have the Holy Ghost.

We have to know what the Holy Ghost feels like. And he says, the Lord's going to receive them up and they're going to be received into glory. And this is so that God can make an example of these folks and that the judgments, which he shall exercise upon them. This is the end of verse 11. And his wrath may be just and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness.

And then again, you know, Amulek, Oh, this is so sad. And, and then verse 13, Alma is saying it again, be it according to the will of the Lord, but behold, our work is not finished. We're not going to die. You and me, Amulek. So now they withstand this abuse and it's so parallel to the pattern of Jesus Christ He's being struck, the people are after the faith of Nehor, and Alma and Amulek answer them nothing, over and over, answer them nothing.

They're smiting them, they're gnashing their teeth, they're mocking, they're withholding food, they're taking away their clothes. I mean, these are days and days of them just suffering. And then again, 24, they're smiting them again. And then at last, verse 25 came to pass that they all went forth and smote them saying the same words, even until the last.

And when the last had spoken unto them, the power of God was upon Alma and Amulek and they rose and stood upon their feet. Can you just see this drama unfold? And they're given the strength according to their faith, which is in Christ faith that they have had since their pre mortal realm. This is their eternal nature to have this kind of faith and the walls come down and they are spared.

Verse 28, they're not hurt. The Lord had granted unto them power according to the faith which was in Christ. And just even now as I'm running through this, I'm thinking about here's Amulek saying, Why can't we exercise this power? Well, you can. It just isn't going to be in the way that you thought. And so they did get to exercise the power, but the power was unto their deliverance, not the deliverance of the people.

[01:01:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes.

[01:01:33] Jenny Reeder: Can I say something about that? I think it's so interesting because I think this is also illustrating the principle of agency. Which we learned about in chapter 13, where we were left to choose good or evil. And I think this is the, um, manifestation or the demonstration of that. And the people of Nehor had chosen evil.

And Alma and Amulek witnessed that and they're, they see that and they're a part of that. And I think it's also interesting that they ask for strength. And I, I just see Jesus Christ in all of this. It is so reminiscent of Good Friday when Jesus is brought before the Sanhedrin, before the chief priests and before Pilate.

All of these things happen to him now. He doesn't watch people burning. Maybe he does in his own sense with Gethsemane, but he, um, says nothing. And he asks, he asked the heavenly father, how long let this bitter cup pass from me. Um, but give me strength to do your will. I choose to always do your will. And I think it's, it's just a, another example of Jesus Christ.

[01:02:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, absolutely. Well, and then you go back to that question you started with. What is the limit of my discipleship? It reminds me of that quote from our prophet, President Benson, when he said, not only would you die for him, but more importantly, would you live for him? And we have two examples here, like, because I'm just struck by the fact that they pull these women and children in and burn them.

Because I would have been like, this is ridiculous. I'm out of here. I can do far more good alive than dead. And I would have ran. I don't know. Would I have ran? That's my question. Like, I just think of their scenario and how these women and children and that word in verse 10, it's the active word of the women and children who were consuming in the fire.

I thought it was interesting. It didn't say consumed in the fire, like actively being consumed, consuming in the And here they are dying for him. And then Alma and Amulek are going to live for him. And we have these two crazy examples of, again, priesthood power. Do you think it took priesthood power to stay in the fire?

[01:03:48] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: You bet it did, because I think that's the worst way. If I had to die, it's not going to be by fire. I just think that you think about what a burn feels like and how miserable that is, I don't want to burn to death, but absolutely, because don't you see when you go to chapter 15 verse one, and when Alma and Amulek were commanded to depart out of that city, they departed and came out even into the land of Sidon and behold, they there, they found all the people who had departed out of the land of Ammonihah. And so who had been cast out and stoned because they believed in the words. So some did get away.

[01:04:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yep. Prior to the burning. It said that in verse eight, in verse seven of chapter 14, then that they had left. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right.

[01:04:32] Jenny Reeder: I just have to say this because I think we see this happening today.

I think of the news showing us pictures of women and children being killed in Gaza. Um, last night I watched something about the Holocaust and watching those women and children and men be burned. And I just think this is. So awful. And this is why God weeps. And I think that there's a reason that you and I were not born in that time or in that location that we were born and we live now, I don't understand it.

I just watched two weeks ago, a dear friend of mine pass away. from, um, colon cancer, and immediately I was filled with survivor's guilt, and that's a very real thing, and I don't know why my life was preserved, but I do know that it is, and that I have a work to do, just like Alma and Amulek did, and it's really hard for me to understand that.

[01:05:33] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, Jenny, Going back to everything that you just shared, I'm so grateful for what you were able to say to us because when we started out, I said how I've been reading these chapters saying, well, what came before and why is the, why are these stories placed right here? And if you go back to Alma chapters 12 and 13, you're going to notice a word that is repeated several times.

And it talks about entering into the Lord's rest. Like he's going to teach about this word, rest, rest, rest, rest, rest. And then we're going to get this crazy story. And so I want us to talk about this word rest, and I'm going to give the verses. So if you are in your scriptures or you're in Alma chapter 12, you're going to see the word rest in starting in verse 34 at the very end of the verse.

You're going to see it in verse 35 at the very end of the verse, you're going to see it in verse 36, and it's always entering into the rest of the Lord or entering into my rest. You're going to see it in verse 37. Let us enter into the rest of God. Then you'll see it in chapter 13 verse six. We might also enter into his rest.

Then in chapter 13 verse 12. It talks about entering into the rest of the Lord, their God. Verse 13, that ye may also enter into that rest. You'll see it again in verse 16, that they might enter into the rest of the Lord. And then in verse 29, that ye may be lifted up at the last day and entered into his rest.

Tell me what your thoughts are about the fact that meeting God is equated with the word rest.

[01:07:03] Jenny Reeder: I think it's interesting that Abraham uses that word in chapter one of Abraham when he's in the residence of his fathers and he's in a heap of trouble. And he says, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest.

Um, and to me that means like he had to separate himself from his fathers and go to a different place. And we also find that in the temple is finding that peace and rest.

[01:07:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hmm. That's cool. Why did you laugh, Jennifer?

[01:07:33] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Oh, Sundays, you know, that, that you think, Oh, Sunday's the day of rest. And, but that it really is for me that day of rest.

And, and I think sometimes it's the expectation of what the word should mean. Um, And remember, President Nelson gave the talk, overcome the world and find rest and, and for us to just understand the Sabbath day is a delight and that it can be a day of rest. Um, but that it doesn't mean. I get to take a nap all the time.

We do love sacred Sunday naps. Um, but just to temper our expectation that the plan of salvation is a plan of ease and that there is work and suffering and trial and work and, and that even I think the eternal rest. Who said it? I'm trying to think who said it. Joseph Fielding Smith, Joseph F. Smith.

[01:08:36] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, you're right. It was Joseph F. Smith. Yes. And it was in the old teachings of the presidents of the church manual. So Jennifer, will you go ahead and read this quote?

[01:08:45] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Let me assure you. That man who is not thoroughly established in the doctrine of Christ, who has not yielded his whole soul unto the Lord, and to the gospel he has taught to the world, has not yet entered into the rest.

He is still at sea, so to speak, wandering, unstable, lacking firmness, lacking the faith that cannot be moved, Ready to be overtaken by the cunning and craftiness of him who lies in wait to deceive and mislead into error and darkness. While he that has received the testimony of Jesus Christ in his heart, he that has yielded his all to the kingdom of God and to the will of the father.

Is so established. His heart is fixed. His mind is made up. Doubts have been dispelled. Fears have all been removed. He knows in whom to trust. He is thoroughly established in his purposes and in his determination that as for him and his house, he will serve God, keep his commandments and walk as far as it is possible for human creatures to walk in purity of life. in honor, fidelity, and uprightness before the Lord

[01:09:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: As you were reading that, I was thinking of the people who were consuming in the fire. I mean, to be established. Cause I always, like you said, I associate entering into the rest of the Lord, like hitting the finish line of a marathon and now you can rest, which it could be, but I like this definition that entering into his rest is entering into.

Like it says in Alma chapter 14 verse 11, the Lord receiveth them up unto himself in glory. And I just think like that glory is. the knowledge. It is coming to the fact that everything we hoped and believed in this life really is true. That's rest for me. Like, Oh, it was right. Right. So we have this idea of entering into his rest.

We're all in the thick of it. And Alma and Amulek, they're going to continue on and they're going to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ in chapter 15. They're actually going to heal Zeezrom. He's now a believer. He's had this complete change of heart. Remember he was the big bad lawyer and he has this change of heart and he gets healed through the power of the priesthood.

And so in the next segment, we're going to have our final discussion about everything and all of these chapters. And we'll do that next.

Segment 6

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[01:11:16] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Alma chapter 16. This is the story that really stood out to me, and I just want to share it with you. And then my guests are going to talk about some things and feelings they have about these verses. We have another war going on. So as we learned in the very first segment, Jennifer beautifully taught us how Alma and Amulek went back to Zarahemla.

And Alma is now going to help Amulek and he's going to administer unto him. So they're in Zarahemla and then we have a war that takes place. And if you go to Alma chapter 16 verse three, there were many who were taken captive into the wilderness. And verse four says, it came to pass. The Nephites were desirous to obtain those who had been carried away captive into the wilderness.

Verse five, Therefore, he that had been appointed chief captain over the army of the Nephites, and his name was Zoram, and he had two sons, Lehi and Ahah. Now Zoram and his two sons, now this is the part I love you guys, knowing that Alma was a high priest over the church, and having heard that he had the spirit of prophecy, therefore they went unto him and desired of him to know whether the Lord would That they should go into the wilderness in search of their brethren who had been taken captive by the Lamanites.

So they are like, we hear this high priest has a spirit of prophecy. We believe that he can tell us what to do and we know he'll have an answer. And so in verse six, they came to pass that Alma inquired of the Lord. I love this. So Alma's like, well, let me go ask the Lord what we should do. And it says Alma returned and he said unto them, behold, the Lamanites will cross the river.

I love the future tense of that. Like it's, here's what's going to happen. They will cross the river side and in the south wilderness way up beyond the borders of the land of Manti and behold, there shall you meet them on the east of the river side and there the Lord will deliver unto thee by thy brethren who have been taken captive by the Lamanites.

And then sure enough, verses seven, eight and nine, that's exactly what happens. And they're able to get the people back and they go back into the possess their own lands. And when I read this, the thought that struck me was, and I even wrote this in my scriptures to the outside. I want this type of faith and absolute assurance in a living prophet today.

And do I? I think I do, but I love this idea like what should we do? And then the high priest Alma comes and says, Oh, let me talk to the Lord. Here you go. Going back to this idea of priesthood power. Do we follow and believe in the words of a living prophet that he really is going to tell us exactly what we need?

Day in our time and this idea, it, it's going to happen. It will and does it. So I think this is awesome. And Jennifer, one of my favorite qualities about your testimony is you have this undying love and just strongest testimony of our living prophet. And I wanted your thoughts on these verses.

[01:14:01] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well, thank you for that. And I, I, I've been thinking, you know, since you said that to me, that like, where did that come from for me? And I'm trying to, let's see if I can articulate this because we talked today about here we are in this fallen mortal experience, trying to navigate with the same faith and agency and good works that we had in our pre mortal realm.

And God has this great gift for us. We read that in Mosiah that that God has given us this gift of a prophet and that if I can keep my eye on him. That my faith can always be magnified, that I can, my good works can be directed towards the Lord's anointed mouthpiece, anointed and appointed. Right. And, and so in this instance to have them just not even be familiar with him, but have heard about him and said, Alma, tell us what to do.

And my experience has always been that if I'm current in the teachings of the living prophet. I'm going to be okay. And while I love and adore President Russell M. Nelson, even more so, I love that God allows us to have a prophet. And so it won't matter who's next because God will allow us to have a prophet and it won't matter who came before him, right?

Because God allows us to have a prophet. And it's like this line where here's a visible. real human person that I can follow and he's going to help me get back to the Savior.

[01:15:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, as you were saying that I was just imagining, I wonder how many people thought Alma the younger, this guy, this guy's supposed to lead us.

I don't think so. And, and yeah, I, I love how you just said it doesn't matter whoever's in that position has been given the power and authority to lead us and communes with God. I believe that I absolutely, I will second what Jennifer just said, um, she's right. And it is true. And that is what a prophet does.

So thank you, Jennifer. I appreciate that. There's some other very incredible verses in chapter 16. I mean, we could have spent a whole hour just on this chapter. Jenny, will you just teach us a little bit about the verses that stood out to you from this chapter?

[01:16:34] Jenny Reeder: Yeah. And I think this is, I think Alma exemplifies this as he's traveling around.

And he continues to exemplify this, uh, wherever he goes, where he he's able to find the people that are open and humble and willing to listen. Of course, that happens in Alma chapter 31 and 32, but in other places. So in chapter 16, verse 14, Alma and Amulek are preaching repentance and as many as would hear them, hear their words unto them, they did impart the word of God without any respect of persons.

Continually. And I love that, that they didn't, it didn't bother them who they were talking to or who, who was listening, who was, who was open to this. Um, but they saw them all as, as children of God. Verse 16, it says, there was no inequality among them. The Lord did pour out his spirit on all the face of the land to prepare the minds of the children of men.

Um, and then in verse 17, that when they received those words with joy and as a branch were grafted into the true vine, which I love that they might enter into the rest of the Lord, their God, they become part of this covenant people of the house of Israel and that they are. Well,

[01:18:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: and Jenny, everything you just pointed out then leads to verse 21, after the church had been established throughout all the land, having got the victory over the devil.

Isn't that interesting? Jenny, you pointed out that without any respect to persons and then everything in 16 and 17. I just think how awesome will that be to have victory over the devil? Oh, that is rest right there. That is entering into the Lord's rest from the quote that we just read. Having a firm conviction, knowing what we believe in, trusting that it is all true.

And right here, the word of God being preached in purity in all the land. And the Lord pouring out his blessings upon the people and that I'm going to put the word rest that is rest right there as well. So awesome. Awesome. Thank you. That's so good. What a great discussion. So what we're doing this summer is we are calling it the summer of joy.

And in order to make the summer more joyful, Deseret Bookshelf Plus and LDS Living are making every summer episode accessible to everyone. You just need to download the bookshelf app and have fun and enjoy listening. So as part of this summer of joy, I'm asking each of my guests to tell us How do you count it joy, taking from the scripture in James chapter 1 verse 2, how do you count it joy when you're in the middle of trial and tribulation?

[01:19:21] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: Well my very immediate thought was the way I started two hours ago and how I feel now and that when I can gather. With my friends, with my loved ones, with the people who I have some history with and say, let's talk of Christ and, and have that chance to really like, like the way you just ended, right?

That the gospel was taught with purity. And I hope we've done that, that's been our, the desire of our hearts, but just the joy I feel in real connection with real covenant connection. And so I love you guys. And thank you for bringing joy to me today.

[01:20:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how you said covenant connection. Okay. Jenny, what about you?

[01:20:16] Jenny Reeder: I keep thinking of what president Camille Johnson has taught us about how. We find relief when we provide relief. I think it's such a beautiful reciprocal thing. And, and my moments of greatest trial and, um, tribulation, I have drawn on the people around me and it's given me the strength to want to help others in their times of trial and tribulation.

And to just say, it's better on the other side. Meaning once you get through this, I promise it's better. There's light and hope. I used to say that to people with cancer, because it wasn't until I was done with my, um, chemo that I realized it is better on the other side. And you have to know there is another side.

[01:21:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and you perfectly exemplified Sister Camille Johnson when you told us the story about writing letters to people in your, writing letters to the women that you were over as Relief Society President. Are you glad that the Bishop did not release you?

[01:21:25] Jenny Reeder: I would have, if he had released me, I would have curled up in a ball in my bed and died.

[01:21:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And yet here you are counting it joy without even realizing it. That's pretty cool.

[01:21:40] Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt: You, you ought to put that Linda K. Burton, certain women's talk in the show notes so that people can see little Jenny. Yeah, I think so. I think that to see that that's our Jenny, you know, that Sister Burton, President Burton was featuring just this example of, This relief through society, through what God has sanctioned for his daughters.

[01:22:07] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And just how awesome that Jenny uses her priesthood power, her privileges, her rights, her power, and it helped her count at joy because she did exactly what the Spirit told her to do. That is so cool. Wow. Thank you, ladies. Boy, I love you two so much. I don't even want to end. Can we just talk for like the next four hours?

[01:22:27] Jenny Reeder: Only if it has, if there's food involved.

[01:22:31] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Okay. Now listen, I said earlier, you're going to have to listen to this episode a couple of times and it is true. That was so much. It was so deep. It was awesome. I cannot wait to find out what your takeaway was. So go join our group on Facebook or follow us on Instagram and share what you've learned.

And then on Saturday, we're going to post a question from this specific episode. So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at LDSliving. com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway.

It's where we're going to have links to all the references we used, and there were a lot in this episode as well as a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a desert bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It is written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our incredible, beautiful, wonderful Tammy Uzelac Hall.

Such good friends study group participants were Jenny Reeder and Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt, and you can find more information about these friends@ldsliving.com slash Sunday on Monday and see the picture of them when they were roommates. So go check it out. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Halstrom.

Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week and please remember, you are God's favorite.