The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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[00:00:00] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Who out there likes to cook or bake? And is there a recipe that you are known for? You know, my friend Becky, she is known among us as the baker of treats and the roaster of meats. My friend came up with that to describe her, which tells you that she can basically turn anything into a delicacy. Well, today's study of Alma chapters five through seven contains a recipe that all of us can be known for.
And there is an absolute guarantee of success, which thankfully has nothing to do with actual culinary skills. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living where we take the come follow me lesson for the week. And we really dig into the scriptures together.
I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. If you're new to our study group, please follow the link in our description. And it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study. Just like my friends, Laurie Mattson, Lynn Cotter, Paul Cotter, Leah Mortensen, and Nicole Cotter.
Hello friends. Thank you so much for listening. I think you're really going to like this week's episode. Now, another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So it's always a little bit different. And today I'm so excited to introduce you to Kimberley Brown Sorenson and her friend and mine, Paula Millington.
Hi ladies.
[00:01:17] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Hello.
[00:01:18] Paula Millington: Hello. Hi.
[00:01:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Here we are. We're doing it. I know. Can you believe it? I mean, it's been a long time. You've known, you've studied, you've read. Yeah, you're still a little nervous, right? Yes. I'm always a little nervous. Okay. We just have to set this up. First of all, everyone needs to know that, um, Kimberley Sorenson, Kimberley Brown Sorenson, I can't even say your real name.
You've been on a couple of times. Um, her name's Brown and we're going to call her Brown for the whole episode. I've never called you Kimberley one time in your whole life.
[00:01:50] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: One time and you said, that's too long.
[00:01:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, yeah. I think,
[00:01:53] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: and we moved on from it and we didn't discuss it again,
[00:01:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Amy. And I did that.
Amy's like, I can't, it's too many syllables. So you've been Brown ever since Brown, Brown, we see it like that. Sometimes listen, Brown. Um, so Tammy, say my name. I love it. How Brown says my name, Tammy. Tammy. Tammy. Tammy. Tammy. So this is what I love. I called Brown and I was talking to her about this podcast and I said, do you have a friend?
And she had a friend. And so.
[00:02:24] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I have a heavy hitter friend.
[00:02:25] Paula Millington: We used to be friends until this.
[00:02:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Yeah. Tell me how you two know each other. ,
[00:02:32] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I mean, in a nutshell, Paula and I are in the same ward, but we've known, I don't know how long you've lived in the ward, Paula, but several years and she's taught my kids in primary.
But I think we've just always kind of had this friendship connection and, um, Paula looks out for me a lot of the time and we just, we're, we're friends. She's just one of the most genuine people. I just, I don't, it's just this really great connection and she loves my kids and she brings really great chocolate chip cookies on Sunday nights.
And it's just, it's, it's a great connection, but I don't know what you would add Paula.
[00:03:08] Paula Millington: We just got to know each other from the ward. I mean, it's hard to not know Kimberley. She's involved in everything. Um, I mean, I think he's been a Relief Society president of the Gospel Doctrine teachers. It was the, uh, young woman's president.
She's, she's, and she's just been in all those positions. But, uh, the really neat thing was, uh, getting to know their kids, starting with Kennedy, when she was, she was a Sunbeam and we just, I don't know, we just had this class quite a few times growing up, but anyway, we just love their, their kids and, and she's just a.
Really good friend, has really good insights, and is just so compassionate.
[00:03:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and you had so much good to say about Paula that I was like, I'm done. I'm in. I mean, it's a slam dunk. We're going to have Paula on this episode. Slam dunk. Yes, for sure.
[00:03:59] Paula Millington: The pressure's on. The pressure's on.
[00:04:01] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, it is, Paula. You better, you better step up, sister.
Um, here's my favorite thing, though. Paula, what do you want to say about the people we gave a shout out to?
[00:04:09] Paula Millington: Oh, hey, this is my family. They, they're crazy. They're crazy about your podcast. They talk, they talk about you. They talk about Tammy. Like you're a friend, like they know you. It's like, did you hear what Tammy said about this?
Yeah. And they, and they get together and they talk about it and they're, they're, they're strong in the, in the gospel. And um, they, they love call it. Come follow me and studying and, and they have really good experiences. So, um, I just think it's going to be really fun when they turn it on today. You know, I kind of want to say,
[00:04:43] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I want to say hi Lynn, because she, she and Paula came over to my house and we were chatting and we were chatting about Tammy's podcast and how we listen and all the things.
And we did not say a word. We kept it quiet. We did not,
[00:04:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: So you didn't spill the beans, the beans have been spilled. Here we are. We're with Paul, everybody. Yay. Okay. Well, if you want to know more about my guests and see their pictures and read their bios, you can, you can find them in our show notes, which are at lbsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. So everybody grab your scriptures and something to mark your scriptures with. And we are going to dig into Alma chapter five through seven. All right, you two, tell me what the Holy Ghost taught you as you were studying these chapters. And it's not very many three chapters.
[00:05:29] Paula Millington: I had so many things that maybe some of them will come out, um, as we, as we talk.
It's just hard to choose, but um, one thing that really kind of struck me was Alma, he gets an angel that comes to him and says, you get, you're in trouble, uh, for taking the church, church down and the out, and the angel says one thing to him, go and remember. And, and Alma, the free, he starts out with this inventory and have you sufficiently retained in remembrance, the captivity.
Have you sufficiently retained in remembrance his mercy and long suffering, you know, what he's done for them? And moreover, have you sufficiently retained in remembrance That he has delivered their souls from hell. And so I got quite a lot of special tutoring from the Holy Ghost about remembering, and maybe it's just cause it's on my mind because I'm trying to remember Chinese, we're, we're going to be serving a mission.
And so I've kind of looked into the, the science of memory and, um, you have a hundred billion nerve cells. And each of those can connect with 10, 000 other cells. And so the more that you connect and the more that you touch on things and touch these things together, the stronger your memories can be. And I had some things that were brought to my mind from 40 50 years ago about being delivered and the Lord watching, watching over me.
And these, I guess that they weren't sufficiently retained in remember in my memory, but the Holy Ghost brought them back to me. So that was one thing that was really striking. And then there's, there's just stuff that happened with every verse.
[00:07:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's crazy. Wow, Paula, what I like about what you shared is when you go back to that word, remember, you perfectly gave the example of what the Holy Ghost can do for us is it can bring things to our remembrance.
And it sounds like to me, as you were, as you were reading this verse, things were brought to your remembrance. And that's what's so neat is if you've learned it and maybe haven't thought about it forever, the Holy Ghost can bring things back and it sounds like that's what it did for you. So thank you for testifying of what the Holy Ghost can do for us.
That was powerful. Paul.
[00:07:52] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Well, it took me, I'll have to say it did take me a little while to kind of get into it and to kind of figure out what the spirit was going to tell me. And so the thing that kept coming to my mind was that Janice Cat Perry song, have you received his image in your countenance? And so I looked it up and I was reminded of young women's growing up.
And the thing that I loved the most was. You know, have you received his image in your countenance? Does the light of Christ shine in your eyes? Um, will he know you when he comes again? Because you will be like him. When he sees you, will the father know his child? And as I read about the good shepherd and In Alma chapter five and all of those things, I kind of thought, will he know me?
Am I living my life to where I have his image in my countenance? And you know, some days, yes, maybe some days, no, sometimes it's a little duller, but I definitely thought, does he know who I am? Will he know me and will I know him? And it just kind of sparked those kinds of thoughts like, so. I would say that's my biggest takeaway of how the Spirit taught me was, Kimberley, are you, are you living to where your, His image is in you?
Do people know? And I'm grateful that it's taught me that to remind me even the littlest of things, even the little moments can reflect Christ. can reflect how I feel about him or if, or what I'm doing or things like that. So that was the biggest thing. And I have another thing too, but that was my biggest takeaway.
[00:09:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Do you, do you want to share it now or do you think it'll come up later?
[00:09:35] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I don't know. I mean, it was the, the, the second one that I took away was huge. Um, it was the, I say unto you, how many times did it say that I counted it's between 78 and 80 times. Maybe I'm off by a few inches now. We're five after five.
I sent Tammy a message and said, I feel like this could mean something more. And I don't know if I got more, but every time I read it and even the things that I kind of tried to, to dig deeper, I listened and to me it was, it was like in an empathetic tone and it was like speaking truth and I could just see him saying things like, and I say unto you, like, listen to what I'm saying and kind of, and I don't want to say in a pleading way, but.
I'm telling you the truth and I want you to hear it and almost in excitement, like, I'm going to tell you this really great stuff. So with his image and I say into you, the spirit just was pretty clear, like, make sure you're doing what's right. Cause I'm telling you and I'm pleading with you. If you do this, this will be really great type of stuff.
So that's what I, that's my first takeaway.
[00:10:51] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, I'm grateful you shared that because here's what you want to know about Brown. So she's been single mom in it for a long time. She's got four fabulous kids. And I think why it strikes me is because that is how you've mothered. I think you have done an incredible job of saying to your kids, I say unto you, we're going to read the Book of Mormon.
We're going to, we go to church. That's what we do. I say unto you, we say yes to callings. I say unto you, we keep the Sabbath day holy. I say unto you, we parathy. And I say unto you, it's hard and we can do hard things. I mean, that is, I think you, I, I never considered I say unto you until now. And as Alma is saying this, I think he's doing it in the same way you did as a mom with this loving, like I, just like you said, Brown, I say unto you, just listen and heed what I'm.
That's super important. And so I did not know that 70 plus times. That's so cool. Thank you for pointing that out.
[00:11:47] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Yeah. I literally count it because it meant something to me.
[00:11:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It does. And so. Oh, that's good. Okay. Well then let's do this. In the very next segment, we're going to dive into Alma five and we're going to find out what Alma is saying unto us.
We'll do that next.
Segment 2
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[00:12:14] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now, this is fun. I have a quote from National Geographic online, and it starts with this. It talks about stories and why human beings like stories. So here's the quote. Stories are hardwired into our very biology because now listen, I'm going to pause right there. Boy, Brown, do we love a story or what? A good story.
A good story. Now, Brown and I have known each other since we were single. So in our twenties. Yeah. It's been a long time. 25, like plus years probably. Oh yeah. Yeah. And one thing about our friendship with all of our girlfriends is we love to tell a story. We love to hear a story. We love the details of a story.
Like I want to know what they were wearing. I want to know where they were. Like, I want to know all of this stuff. So I would say when I read this, Oh, my brain is hardwired. Into my very biology for stories. So here's what it says again, continuing on. Our brains arrive filled with all the cognitive machinery needed to comprehend stories and share them with others.
We are storytelling organisms that use narrative structures to organize our thoughts. Because we use stories to recall facts, our knowledge is based on stories themselves. Little wonder then that our knowledge of early man shows evidence of storytelling. It was there from the start, so I share this with us because Alma chapter five starts with a story.
Let's go into Alma chapter five and I want you to bracket off versus one through 13 because the first thing that Alma does is he tells us a story. Now what you want to know, a little bit of background. That we didn't get to in our last segment was in Alma chapter four, verse 17, Alma turns over the chief judge position to a man by the name of Nehephiha.
And so Alma is no longer the chief judge. He's still the high priest, but he's not in charge of judging people. He left that to Nehephiha. That will come up later. So you just want to know that. And now he goes in. And if you go to Alma chapter five, above the section heading, it says the words, which Alma, the high priest.
According to the holy order of God delivered to the people in their cities and villages throughout the land. Here's the word he delivers. Or as Brown said, I say unto you, here's what he says unto us. And so if you bracket off versus one through 13, right story. And I just want to know, we're going to label this and it's going to be called Alma retells his father's story.
That's the story he's retelling. Alma, the senior story. And I want to know from the two of you, as you read this story, and Paula, you did a great job of explaining in verse six, how he's saying, please remember, please remember this part of the story. I want to know from just any of these verses, was there any part of that story that you marked?
[00:14:52] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Well, I love in verse six, where he says that you belong, um, to this church and have you sufficiently retained. Things, kind of like what Paula was saying with the memory, like first of all, he's saying, first of all, I love that he said, I say into you, you belong. You, you belong here and don't you remember, you know, don't you remember that you're part of us?
You're part of this group. So that was kind of one of the first things that I loved.
[00:15:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's neat. I'm going to put that. I'm going to circle the word belong. Oh, cool. Okay. That's great. Insight.
[00:15:28] Paula Millington: Well, it's, it's interesting too, because, uh, what do you ask if you remembered? And, and he doesn't say, do you remember?
It's like, have you retained in remembrance, which is just kind of interesting. But um, the, the, he has three things, captivity, the great things the Lord has done for you and the, and that the Lord delivered them. And then he, then he goes into the story, well, I ask of you, were they destroyed? No, they were not.
You know, and he goes, he goes through and he gives this dramatic, nice, uh, story. Hey, they were loose. Their souls did expand. They did sing redeeming love. They were saved. And then he has, and on what conditions are they saved? And it's interesting because, like, what, so if you think, have you, if you, uh, apply it to yourself, you know, like, have you been in captivity?
The great things the Lord have done for you, and then being delivered. All of us have experienced some, some of those things, especially the great things the Lord is, has done and is doing for them. And then it said in what conditions were they saved? And it was pretty simple. They believed the words of the prophet.
He believed Abinadi. And then according to Alma's faith, a mighty change was wrought in his heart. And then Alma 1 preached the words, you know, and so those were the, those were the conditions. What grounds do they have to hope for salvation?
[00:16:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Paula, will you read verses 12 and 13 for us? Because you alluded to them, but I think we should just read them.
Here's Alma the Younger saying, you remember the story. You remember that my dad used to be with King Noah and that he heard the words of Abinadi and then he hits us with verse 12 and 13.
[00:17:14] Paula Millington: Verse 12, And according to his faith, there was a mighty change wrought in his heart. Behold, I say unto you, that this is all true.
And verse 13, And behold, he preached the word unto your fathers. And a mighty change was also wrought in their hearts. And they humbled themselves, and put their trust in the true and living God. And behold, they were faithful until the end. Therefore, they were saved.
[00:17:40] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Brown, what strikes you about those two verses, especially in light of what it's saying about Alma's father?
[00:17:48] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Well, I think that I really loved that, you know, here, here they're being reminded of all the things that went on and all of this stuff. And then according to his faith, right? Like he, he had to have faith, but I loved the very last and he said, and behold, they were faithful until the end. Therefore, they were saved.
And I think what I love so much about that is it's almost like a mic drop situation. Like, there you go. We just spelled it out. Remember these things, remember all of this, but they were faithful and they were saved. It's, it's kind of simple, right? Like they went through a lot of hard things. They had to repent.
They had to do all these things. They actually had to be, you know, saved. So this wasn't easy, and I don't think the story is easy, but he's, he's amping them up and tell you this and this and this. And then at the end they were faithful. They were mic drop. Like that's kind of how I felt because it's so true, right?
Like if you're faithful, you'll be saved. I think you're absolutely right. And it sounds so simple and, and we can, we know that from these other verses through the pleading, at least as I listened to it, there was pleading and saying, you know, again, He changed their hearts. He awakened them out of a deep sleep, all of these things.
But really when it came down to it, it's almost like this roar amped him up, amped him up. And then he kind of quieted them down and like Paula read according to his faith, like, and then it just kind of like calm down and when, and they were saved.
[00:19:28] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:19:28] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I love that. I, I, I just, I really love that because it gave me hope that, Okay.
Yeah. It's hard and it's this and it's this, but humble yourself, trust you'll be okay.
[00:19:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, thank you, Brown. I think what's so beautiful about this, when Alma stands up and he has a chance to speak, the first thing he does is tell a story about his dad and of all the stories that he could share from his father's life.
This is what he shares. Remember that he and all of your fathers and your ancestors, they were all in bondage. And then I love how he says, and by the way, they had to repent. I like how you said that Brown. They had to repent and. What I'm telling you is true. And they were, I love how you said it. They were faithful.
Therefore they were saved. Mic drop. And I think of my own life, like when our stories are set of us, what will be said? What, you know, if my kids could stand up and tell any story about me, it might be an embarrassing one. Let's be honest. Right. I don't know. I mean, of all the stories Alma could have told, he didn't start out with my dad was a jovial man.
He just went right for the, the truth about where his testimony was formed. And now Alma the younger, and then he's gonna apply it to us later. But I asked for you two to come with a story because I wanted to know, do you have a story in your family line that gets told that is a story of faith, like Alma's was of his father?
[00:20:53] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I mean, I, okay, I'll go first. Okay.
Um. Um, so I recently lost my mom six months ago, six months ago yesterday, we lost our, we lost my mom. And this story isn't necessarily one that is told throughout generations, but the story is something that I talked to my siblings before we were going to do this. And I said, I'm going to share this about mom.
And they're like, yeah, this is the one thing that we remember. So my mom grew up her whole life, faithful. She had a mother that was faithful, who went through really hard things. She, um, lost a husband and a son. Um, and I think that that helped prep my mom because she, Herself lost her husband and her son before herself.
And, but her whole life was faithful her whole life. She just was like, I'm a stay the course kind of gal. She often referred to herself as very boring, but when she got her patriarchal blessing, something resonated in her. And she was just very clear that she was never going to die. So she had this faith that no matter how hard things got in her life, it was okay because she was never going to die.
She was going to live to see the Savior again. And we never really questioned that. I mean, gosh, she, she just, she's the one that got it. She's the one that read it. And so our, you know, Bad things happen, hard things happen. She's, so when my dad passed away, immediately it started to, um, question things for her, not question her faith, but she just was very like, wait a minute, my patriarchal blessing says that we're going to serve missions together and we're going to do this.
And we, that didn't happen. And she's like, but okay. You know, she could kind of grasp and then she had a stroke. And that left her side paralyzed and couldn't drive and wait a minute, I'm supposed to this and this and this. And she really, but she was still very, very much stay the course. And so even though she was going to have this body that wasn't working great and her husband left and they couldn't serve mission, she was just like, well, there's a plan.
And, but at least I'm going to get to live to see the savior again. And, and then my mom dies. Wait a minute, our whole life, you were never going to die, mom. You were going to be alive. And we just assumed that maybe she was just going to have a crazy, you know, this stroke brain and that was going to be hard for her, but she wasn't going to die.
And then we had the chance to read her patriarchal blessing. And if you don't care, I want to read, and I got permission from my siblings, so they don't mind. I just want to read this one little last part that helped me understand why my mom was so faithful and why she believed this. Okay. So she was never going to die.
Sorry. My tears. Okay. And you through your efficient and effective service shall be given to live, to serve many of their returning 10 tribes, and they shall receive their blessings in the house of the Lord at your hands. For the greater blessings flow from those who are Of Ephraim to those who are not of this blessed lineage and until your work shall have finished in mortality, sickness and death shall not have no power over you and your body shall not lie to rest in mother earth.
But when your, when your work shall be finished in the due time of the Lord, you shall be changed from mortality to immortality in the twinkling of an eye. When my mom passed away. She sat up. She fell. We were talking to her. She sat up. Where are you? I'm in Alaska. Just kidding. I'm at Kimber's house. And she was joking with us.
Three seconds later, my mom's face drooped. The blank stare was there. And my mom was no longer with us. In a twinkling, she finished her work. She did everything she was supposed to do. Her faith was from the beginning until the absolute end and trusted in Heavenly Father that she would, she did everything.
And so for me, the testimony of faith comes from, she did everything she was supposed to do. She taught us everything we were supposed to do on this earth. And she, In a twinkling left this mortality. What a great example of faith for us, for us as kids, that we get to rely on that story and know that our mom was so faithful to the very end.
And then as we read this patriarchal blessing was just like. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. She did it. She finished. And anyway, it was super cool.
[00:25:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just want to say, Brown, mic drop. Like I, I look back at this verse, therefore she was saved.
[00:25:41] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: She was saved.
[00:25:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I believe that about Vic. Oh, I love your mom. Yep.
She was saved. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:25:47] Paula Millington: How could you, how could you top that? I just want to say, right. I will amen that
[00:25:55] Tammy Uzelac Hall: for sure. Wow.
[00:25:58] Paula Millington: I, I, can I just, can I just say one other thing? So um, uh, Kim, uKimberleyrly Brown, Brown and I were asked to speak in Relief Society about a person, a woman that we admired, and Brown's mom was there.
[00:26:14] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: It was the day she passed away.
[00:26:16] Paula Millington: And her aunt. And so Brown got up and just told stories about her mom is just so wonderful. And it was just so, it was just, ah, it, it just touched your heart and it, we were all in tears, but any, and then her mom passed away that same day.
[00:26:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my word. What a cool moment. Brown.
I didn't know that. Oh, how neat for your mom to hear those words from your mouth. That's beautiful.
[00:26:42] Paula Millington: And for it just, it just lifted everyone in the spirit. The spirit was so strong, but we had no idea. We found out and we're just like, what? We just walked her to the car. We just walked her to the car.
[00:26:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that, Brown. Okay. Well in the next segment, then we're going to turn from Alma's father's story. And we're going to now take a look at our own story through the lens of Alma chapter five.
Segment 3
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[00:27:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're going to start out this segment with a quote from Elder Ballard. And Paula, will you please read this for us?
[00:27:26] Paula Millington: Elder Ballard said, I need to regularly take time to ask myself, how am I doing? As a guide for me during this private personal interview, I like to read and ponder the introspective words found in the fifth chapter of Alma.
[00:27:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. So we took this to heart. All three of us took this challenge to read Alma chapter five and ask ourselves, how How are you doing? And so I just want to know, all right, you two, how you doing and what verses from Alma chapter five, starting in verse 14, kind of, I think we did verses 14 through 33 and I asked you to read those and mark anything that sticks out to you about how you're doing.
And we're just going to share some of the things we marked. So everyone just take a turn and here we go.
[00:28:10] Paula Millington: So I had a little heartburn with this. There's 22 questions. Okay. Thanks. And I can't handle 22 sections, so I kind of had to look at, I kind of had to look at it and, and, and get them into clumps. And so there were these questions that were, have you, and then there was questions, do you, and then there was questions, can you, and then questions, will you, and are you.
And it just kind of, I just kind of looked at them and, you know, in the, in those ways. So the, have you, um, you know, have you been spiritually born and received his image and experienced the mighty change? And so those were, those were, um, those were the, have you ones, which I thought were interesting because it's, you start out by saying, have you, and then it's like, do you, and the ones that are really the ones that got me were imagined.
And so he has, can you, it's like, can you imagine the judgment day that you can lie to God, you could be filled with guilt and remorse at the judgment day. And um, I thought about, uh, you know, imagining myself at the judgment day. And when I was getting my doctorate degree, you have to do these, you have to do comprehensive exams and then you have to do an oral defense.
of your dissertation, and you have to go in front, it's Judgment Day, and you have to go in front of this panel, and they just, they determine if you can go on, or if you can, you know, get your doctoral degree. So it's just kind of interesting, the people that were in the room, and all the preparation that I had to do for it, you know, and there, and that, and then I, I thought about this, imagine the Judgment Day, and God says, Come unto me, you blessed.
And then that assumes some things about God that you trust. God has all the power. He has, you know, he can, he can affect the resurrection, the judgment. Um, you, you know, you've done the prep work. Um, you know, that it's going to be a, you know, that it's going to be a, uh, a fair judgment as well as a merciful judgment.
You know, all these things about the character of God. And so you can submit yourself to that judgment, you know, unlike the, um, university where you got, you got who you got and you had to prove yourself and you may or may not. And you know, like the oral defense, anybody from any department could come in, anybody in the business school could come and ask questions.
And it's a, it, it's a, it's an interesting, and you know, I mean, you're, you're studying to be a professor, so you have to have something to profess.
[00:30:59] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah.
[00:31:00] Paula Millington: And so you, you've got all that stuff committed and, um, um, so I, I just thought that was kind of interesting.
[00:31:05] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, Paula, I, I appreciate that you brought up Alma chapter five, verse 16.
Let's highlight what she has now said with us. I think this is so just perfect. That phrase come unto me, ye blessed. I mean, that is so powerful and the, and everything that's implied by that statement is so cool. I like how you said it teaches us the nature of God and that he loves us and that he calls us that.
Come into me. He blessed. Oh, just sounds like such a beautiful word. You'd call a child, you blessed little thing. Um, I like that you had, you pointed that out to us.
[00:31:40] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: And I love Paula that you said like, We know what we're getting, right? Like we know that we will, no matter what we answer to any of these questions, we know we will still receive and be judged by a loving God who will call us blessed no matter what we answer to all of these questions.
Yeah. I love that.
[00:32:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's a word that I imagine your dad using, Brown.
[00:32:07] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Probably.
[00:32:08] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's how your dad was. He was so, so comforting and kind. Oh, I love your dad.
[00:32:14] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Yeah. So I just, I love that. I love that there were all those questions because I think that no matter what he, we know what we're getting. We know what he'll say.
I love that. Me too. I think, um, for me, what I kind of took when I was reading all of these, I, yeah. Really took it to heart. How am I doing in all of this? And sometimes I think it can be a little overwhelming to think, well, I, I don't know, I didn't murder anybody and my garments are clean. Okay. You know what I mean?
Like you kind of take it literally when I was at first, when I started to read it and then I actually took a different approach and thought about, um, my ward. Our ward was recently combined with another ward. And I thought about what am I doing to. Connect myself to these new people. What am I doing to, you know, that's part of all of this.
It's part of maybe some of the questions. Imagine what it would be like if you could. You know, not full remorse or, or all of those things. I just kind of really took it literally like, how am I doing when it comes to making friends with people in my ward or being nicer or all of that? And I was definitely reminded that I'm mediocre at best right now.
Which I'm okay with because at the end in verse 33, he says, I'm going to give you an invitation unto all men for the, for the arms of mercy are extended towards them. And he sayeth, repent and I will receive you. And my arms, are my arms of mercy reaching out? Like, not mercy, but are my arms extended? Am I open to creating new friendships?
Am I open to creating or having some of these things? And maybe I'm completely way off and I'm taking it in a different approach, but The invitation is there, repent, Kimberley, get back on, get back, get invested. And golly, it's, it's, people are waiting to receive you or you're waiting to receive people.
Yeah. I took a completely different approach and that's, I don't know, I love, I love that.
[00:34:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: What I love about Alma chapter five is again, going back to Elder Ballard. Like, there's no wrong approach if you're applying it to your life. That is exactly what Alma wanted you to do was to take the verse and have you ask yourself, how am I doing there?
So you took the absolute perfect approach for that. That was fantastic. I laughed when you said at the beginning, um, I'm not murdering my blood. My garments aren't stained. I laughed because those are the verses that hit me the hardest when I was reading this. So when I got to Alma chapter five and I read verses 21 and 22, back when we studied second Nephi chapter 33, we talked about what the bar of God is.
And I brought a picture for everybody and I ended up shrinking that picture and gluing it into my scripture so I could remember where the bar of God is in a courtroom because I have to see it. And so here I am when I get to this part in verse 21, it says, I say unto you, will ye know at that day that ye cannot be saved?
For there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white. Yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain through the blood of him who it has been spoken of by our fathers, who should come to redeem his people from their sins. And now I ask of you, my brethren, how will any of you feel if you shall stand before the bar of God, having your garments stained with blood?
And all manner of filthiness. Behold, what will these things testify against you? And I immediately pictured me standing at that bar wearing all white and having some spots. And just that, it just hit my heart when it says, and what will these things testify against you? Just by looking, you don't even have to read anything about what I did.
Just looking at what my White dress or whatever, my white garments. I just think it's interesting that they will testify of what kind of life I lived or I don't know. I just, okay, here's what I did. I'll be honest. I pictured some stains kind of on my hem justified, like kind of low, kind of gutter talk. Uh, I could have done better, you know, like gossip, unkind thing, as I may have said.
Cause like you said, I'm not a murderer. I'm not going to have like my whole thing stained in blood. I'm just going to have spots that didn't really need to be there. Cause how many times have I said, I didn't really need to say that. And so that's how it became real for me is what will they testify against you? I was like, Oh, all right. All right. All right. I get it.
[00:36:48] Paula Millington: But apply, apply the atonement because you know, you don't clean your spots, right? I don't. And so that is what we love. If you don't clean your spots,
[00:36:57] Tammy Uzelac Hall: so I got a lot of repenting to do,
[00:36:59] Paula Millington: you don't clean your spots and God and uh, you know, the, the atonement will cover them.
[00:37:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. And that's exactly what I taught. That's what I learned from all of this is that the atonement will cover me and I better use it and I better start repenting. So like you said, Brown, the whole repentance thing. All right.
[00:37:17] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I'm going to be looking for the other people with spots on their, on their dress.
I'm going to hope I see someone else with spots on their dress.
[00:37:29] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Cause you know, that's what both of us are thinking, won't you see her dress?
[00:37:32] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Paula's not. That's the thing. Paula's good.
[00:37:36] Paula Millington: No, I thought, I thought it was kind of funny because when you look at, um, verses 28, uh, 28, 29, it's like, are there any among you?
It's like, it was like, okay, look around who's in this group. Are there people there that have pride, that have envy, that, that make a mock, you know, that's kind of, that's a little bit light. But what really, what really struck me in those verses is that if you are not prepared, all three verses, if You know, you make a mock of your brother or he persecutions on him.
If you do, you are not prepared. And I just thought so much about, you know, being prepared, I guess, just preparing for this. podcast, you know, and I also, I, I was thinking after I read this, it was like, the time is at hand. The time is at hand in this. Like, you know, the time is at hand, but it was like, 80 years later, the time is at hand, you know, that they told Joseph Smith that, and here we are, you know, two years later in the time is at hand.
And then, I, The kingdom. And then I was like, why, why is that so important to me? And it's like, you know, um, the kingdom can be the king. We can have the kingdom right now.
[00:38:52] Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, I've never noticed that in verse 31. Yeah.
[00:38:55] Paula Millington: Yeah. We can for He's not prepared. Ooh, that's good. And the time is at, at hand that he must repent it or he cannot be saved.
And so it's like, yeah, we can do that right now and we can be in the kingdom. We're going to. You know, we, we, we try to build the kingdom as, you know, and it's in small things like Kimberley was saying, like they just combined our wards and how do we, you know, what does that mean for us and building the kingdom, you know, and we'll, and we'll have to be prepared.
[00:39:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I love that too.
[00:39:22] Paula Millington: Um, my husband was listening to a podcast with Elaine, um, Dalton and she's a runner and she quoted this guy, uh, uh, Juma Ikangaa and he was winner of the New York marathon and he said, the will to win means nothing without the will to prepare. Mm. Yeah. And that was, yeah, I thought that was interesting.
So we, we've got to be willing to prepare, you know, and, and to, to do the things that we need to. And the Lord has a way of letting us to know, letting us know what, what it is that we need to do.
[00:40:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Paula. Look at all the good stuff we found in Alma 5. This is powerful. And these, just these little verses.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you both of you for sharing what you found in there and how it applied to you. I think we all learned so much and in a different way than we normally would have if we'd gone verse by verse. I'm going to take the challenge now to go back through and highlight every have you, do you, can you, do you imagine?
That was really cool. That might be something fun to do as a class and just to come up with those questions because it is heavy. If you take all those questions, like you said, Paula, that's a lot of questions to answer. So But it's important for us to do because then we can sort of take of like a personal inventory of how we are doing.
And so thank you for sharing that. Okay. So coming up next, then in the next segment, we're going to find out what I talked about at the very beginning and what a recipe has to do with anything that Alma said.
Segment 4
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[00:41:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, you two, what is the best recipe? That you either cook or has been handed down. Do you have a favorite recipe or one you're known for?
[00:41:12] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Well, I mean, I would say that I'm definitely known for Texas sheet cake. It's like my go to, my favorite, but more important, but the one that's been handed down forever is.
Cinnamon rolls. And it's on this. Isn't this so cute? Oh, look at that. So it's been handed down from my great grandmother and then my grandmother and my mom used it and we got it put on this cutting board and it's her original handwriting and everything.
[00:41:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, no, that's neat.
[00:41:40] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Isn't that great?
[00:41:42] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. We're going to include in our show notes a picture of her recipe and then Paula, you have one.
Show us your recipe.
[00:41:48] Paula Millington: This, this is, uh, my, my sister's recipe, uh, for ice cream.
[00:41:54] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, yeah. Okay, hold yours up, Brown. Let's get a picture. Look at these used recipes. Look at your grandma. Ah, I got one, Brown. I'm not known for cooking. You know that. Give me a break. You were my roommate. I'm not showing off.
[00:42:09] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I was going to do a recipe. I was going to bring.
[00:42:12] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Listen, if you wanted to have Oreos, Doritos, and Coke, maybe some milk that's sprinkled on there and hot tamales.
[00:42:18] Paula Millington: I wanted to do Jeff's. He doesn't cook, but he does everything in the house. Everything. Except for cook. I mean, he'll do everything. But he has a really good recipe for, um, Windex for, you know, like cleaner, like you make your own glass cleaner and countertop and you know, whatever.
So I, I, he said, I wouldn't have a recipe and I go, yeah, you would. We should give them, give the Windex recipe.
[00:42:43] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: There you go. That's awesome. That's impressive. Pass that on to us.
[00:42:48] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, definitely. Well, I want you to be thinking about this idea of recipes because this is such a fun way to approach Allah chapter five verses 43 through 60.
And honestly, I couldn't think of a better way to do this than to have Brown helped me because I'm telling you right now, Brown's the mama cook of our group. Anytime you go to her house, you are going to find homemade cookies, cookies about to be cooked, dough in the pan, like everything. She's always got cookies or something cooking.
And of course, the Texas sheet cake. Absolutely. And I know we give you a hard time about Mexican vanilla, but it actually isn't that bad. So it's perfect. It's perfect. So Brown, was this assignment fun for you to come up with this recipe?
[00:43:29] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Oh yeah. I mean, it was really, You know, like as I was putting it together, kind of like writing my own little recipe of putting a testimony together, I found myself probably much like how we, how I maybe cook or whatever, thinking, Ooh, a heaping of this, Ooh, a sprinkle of that.
Uh, you know what I mean? Like it was really fun to kind of put things. What was important? What would I include in my recipe of testimony and how many, how many, you know, how big, how small, what would be, what would be that, you know, baking soda? What would be the Mexican vanilla? What would be the, you know what I mean?
It was just kind of fun to say what, what were my increments and what did I consider I needed more of and smaller of?
[00:44:13] Paula Millington: Okay. So did you add, did you add zeal?
[00:44:16] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Zeal. Yes. Oh, no, I didn't.
[00:44:18] Paula Millington: That's kind of like the zesty. I thought about that this morning. Yeah. Need to add zeal.
[00:44:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Add zeal to our recipe. Okay. I cannot wait to tell.
I'm so excited for you guys to tell me what you did for this recipe. I just want to give a shout out to those who wrote the Come Follow Me manual because that's where I got this idea from. And so everybody can do it. And it says to write a recipe for obtaining a testimony of Jesus Christ using Alma chapter five verses 44 through 51.
43 through 60. So I think you can do any of those verses, but it says like what ingredients or truths of the gospel would you include? What instructions things we can do to seek for truth did Alma include and what ingredients and instructions could we add to our recipe? So I sent these two recipe cards in the mail and I said, fill them out ladies.
And so I'm excited. How'd they go? Did you actually fill them out? Yeah. Oh, you did. Look at that. Oh, I'm so impressed. Okay. They filled out the recipe cards. Hit it, ladies. Tell me, what is your recipe for obtaining a testimony according to these verses? Mine is very, uh,
[00:45:20] Paula Millington: I'm sorry. The PhD in me just came out.
[00:45:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's okay. It's very, I love it. I noticed on your recipe card, I'm like, that's some small print, sister. I know. Give me your top three ingredients on your recipe card and in these verses.
[00:45:37] Paula Millington: All right, my top three, stand and testify at 44, but this is getting to the instructions. So I looked at it, instructions versus ingredients.
So which ones, which ones do you want first? Ingredients? Give me your top three ingredients. Yeah. Okay. So my, my top one is that God is your heavenly father and is all powerful. You are a child of, of the God, a child of the covenant, a disciple of Jesus Christ. God loves you and is doing everything in his power for you to return to live with him again.
He will always honor your agency. And so it's in verse 48, Jesus Christ will come. He's the son, the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and uh, mercy and truth. And he comes to take away the sins of the world and the sins of every man who steadfastly. Believeth on his name. That's cool, Paula. I also highlighted that as an ingredient.
Well, so the first one was God, the father. The second one was Jesus Christ lives. He is the son of the living God in your savior and Redeemer miraculously affected the atonement to overcome the world and will deliver you in his own way and own time. Through the power of his Atoma. He provides relief from your sins, from bad decisions of others.
And from suffering just because you live in a fallen world. You That's from, uh, Sister Johnson, 2023. So, the first is God's the Father, second, Jesus lives, and the third I had the Holy Ghost bears witness of God. Um, and Jesus Christ in all truth, he will guide you, warn and protect you, make the plan of salvation known to you, comfort you and bring you peace and confidence in the Lord.
If you are worthy, he will be your constant companion. And so this whole thing, it's, it starts out like, how do I know these things? They've been revealed to me. And so that that's part of the, that's part of the ingredients to get that revelation from the Holy Ghost and to believe that he can do that. And he will manifest them unto you.
By his Holy Spirit.
[00:47:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Paula. All right, brown, what are some of your ingredients?
[00:47:53] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: My first ingredient was, um, like feeling because I love the Holy Ghost. I know how he talks to me. I know how he speaks to me. And so for me, the first ingredient was, okay, like, Even if you're gaining a testimony, you have to know how things feel.
And verse 40 was perfect for, I say unto you that whatsoever is good cometh from God, and whatsoever is evil cometh from the devil. And I love that because the Holy Ghost let us, will let you know. So part of a testimony growing and recipe or whatever is, you got to know what that feels like. You got to know the good and you have to know the bad.
So that was my top thing. The next thing that I loved was I kind of put on there like, Kind of what we've, we've shared these stories, these experiences, and hearing people bear testimony, hearing people, you know, This is how, this is what touched me, and it can be something big or small, and I kind of thought of verse 47, where it says, I say unto you, that, uh, that, Well, that it has been revealed unto me that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true.
And it says, and according to the spirit of prophecy, which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the spirit of God. So I kind of took that again to heart more of like the things that my dad has taught me, the things that my mom, maybe the things that other people that I admire and love that they've taught me.
Those are true. And again, it compounds with the spirit will let me know that the spirit. And so, you know, those are my, that was my huge, huge thing. And then the last thing that I loved, and I didn't necessarily, um, pair it with a verse, but is really kind of like how we learn in Moroni that experiment and really, and it can probably go with any of these verses, but if I really want to know and have that desire to find something that's true, pray, ask, experiment upon that.
I love the Holy Ghost. I love it. That's my cling to. That's my like, what is it? And. Everything else just builds upon that. So I, I just, I, that, that would be my recipe because he's going to know, you're going to know good from wrong. And how could you not know that these chapters are true? How could you not know that what is being taught is true?
[00:50:11] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and I'm imagining you in your kitchen making your cookies. And so to me, as you're describing this, Holy Ghost is your flower, like 100 percent of the most of what you need. The most of its flower and then everything else is going to help make it even better. But that's your That's what you got to start with.
Really good flour and a lot of it.
[00:50:28] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Think about your bread. That you need that flour to keep it all together and I don't know. So that's, I just love the Holy Ghost. And so it doesn't matter whatever, this is great, everything else, but that Holy Ghost will help you know. And that is so simple for me.
[00:50:43] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So now that you guys have given me the ingredients, here's what I want.
Because whenever somebody, when you have a recipe that's really important and you're going to pass it on to someone, one thing I've noticed is there's always one little trick or one little piece of instruction that sometimes you might not write on the card or it is, but you want to emphasize it with the person you're passing it on to.
For instance, with this sourdough craze, I've heard that, and then you put an ice cube in it. in the pan as it cooks or something like that. But there's one piece of instruction that you're like, you don't want to miss this. So what I want to know is from all the instructions that you found, what do you think is the one where you're like, okay, but make sure you do this instruction.
It's the most important. What'd you find?
[00:51:23] Paula Millington: Well, I had make your testimony your highest priority, bear it often to strengthen it. If necessary, use words as Oakdorf said, yeah, constantly invite the spirit into your life and strive for that conversion and retain that. So, um, it's just keep that, keep that spirit there.
And then my, uh, just in the parting is like, be patient with yourself and others, you know, this is going to happen gradually rather than instantaneously. You know, and it'll, it'll happen according to specific questions or experiences and concerns as well as studying, you know, and so just be, just be patient.
So as you're, as you're mixing this and let it, let it rise to, you know, don't rush it and you can't, you can't rush it. Just take it as it is. And. And have face and, and go, go with it.
[00:52:21] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's, those are great instructions, Paula. Mm-Hmm. Great instructions. Brown. I'm gonna have you go last, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do verse 57.
'cause this one made me think of cooking. I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good Shepherd. Come out from the wicked and be separate. And touch not the unclean things. I mean, I'm just imagining separating eggs and touch not the unclean things like wash your hands, make sure you're clean before you start cooking.
I mean, those are what cooking words stood out to me. And here I'm thinking, if your desires do this, follow the voice of the good shepherd. That's the most important thing. Separate yourself from anything that's wicked. You're not going to want that. And so that was really the, the instructions that I would want to make sure my people know if I passed a recipe on and to just follow the voice of the good shepherd.
Make sure you separate from all the yuck and don't touch anything yucky because I can't stand a dirty hand when you're cleaning or when you're, when you're starting to cook, you better clean your hands. So that one struck me. Okay, Brown, what's your piece of advice that stood out to you?
[00:53:22] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Um, for me, the piece of advice would be practice and kind of like you both have said, I think that as we listen and become familiar with the good shepherd's voice, we have to constantly be reminded what.
It sounds like, and so we may stray, we may, you know, screw up. We may mess up, but if we're practicing, trying to listen to what it is. Then we will become familiar and we will hear it so that we will be able to follow if we practice listening to it. So yeah, and it's kind of in, you know, in verse 60 it says that a little bit, like if you will hearken unto his voice, he will bring you into his fold.
But if I don't know what his voice sounds like, how can I be brought? How can I follow? And so I've got to practice listening to it so that I know, Oh, that's the voice and I can follow.
[00:54:18] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, the practice. You've got to practice this recipe because that's how you became so good at Texas sheet cake brown. He didn't just make it once you practice that recipe.
So, Oh my gosh, that was so much fun. Ladies. That was great. Thank you for sharing all of that. Okay. So in the next segment, then we're going to add, keep your recipe cards up because we're going to add another important ingredient based on Alma chapter six. Okay.
Segment 5
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[00:54:49] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, everyone grab a scripture marker and we're going to highlight a phrase that Alma uses often as he's speaking to these people. So here we go. I'm going to give you references. We're going to just flip all over the place. We're going to start in Alma chapter four, verse 20. We read that for us, Paula.
[00:55:05] Paula Millington: And thus in the commencement of the ninth year of the reign of judges over the people of Nephi, Alma delivered up the judgment seat to Nephi. Ha. And confined himself holy to the high priesthood of the holy Order of God, to the testimony of the word, according to the spirit of revelation and prophecy.
[00:55:23] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. We're going to see the spirit of revelation and prophecy through many verses in Alma, and we're gonna go ahead and mark those and we're gonna study what this means to Alma. Five verse 46. Here's the first time he uses this reference. We've, we've kind of alluded to it. So he talks in verse 46.
Brown, will you read that for us?
[00:55:44] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Behold, I say unto you, they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true for the Lord. God has made them Manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit.
And this is the spirit of revelation, which is in me.
[00:56:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Highlight spirit of revelation. Okay. Verse 47. Paula, will you read that for us? We're going to, we're going to hear this again, but in sort of a different little phrasing.
[00:56:15] Paula Millington: And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed to me that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true.
Even so, according to the spirit of prophecy, which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the spirit of God,
[00:56:32] Tammy Uzelac Hall: highlight spirit of prophecy. Okay, let's go to Alma chapter six, verse eight. And in the middle, as he's speaking to the people in the church in the valley of Gideon in the middle of verse eight, it says, according to the revelation of the truth of the word, which has been spoken by his fathers.
And according to the spirit of prophecy. Which was in him according to the testimony of Jesus Christ spirit of prophecy there. Let's go to Alma chapter seven, verse five. Brown, will you read that for us, please?
[00:57:01] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: And I trust according to the spirit of God, which is in me that I shall also have joy over you.
Nevertheless, I do not desire that my joy over you should come by the cause of so much afflictions and sorrow, which I have had for the brethren of Zarahemla. For behold, My joy cometh over them after wading through much affliction and sorrow.
[00:57:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. We're going to highlight Spirit of God right there.
So we have Spirit of Revelation, Spirit of Prophecy, Spirit of God, and then the last reference. Let's go to Alma chapter 7 verse 17. And Paula, can you please read that?
[00:57:38] Paula Millington: And now my beloved brethren, do you believe these things? Behold, I say unto you, yea, I know that ye believe them. And the way that I know that ye believe them is by the manifestation of the Spirit which is in me.
And now, because your faith is strong concerning that, Yeah. Concerning the things which I have spoken, great is my joy. Okay. Highlight the manifestation of the spirit, which is in me. Can I add one more verse? Yes. The introduction to the Book of Mormon, the Book of Mormon, the volume of Holy Scripture comparable to the Bible is a record of God's dealings with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fullness of the everlasting gospel.
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation.
[00:58:24] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, Paula, thank you. That is awesome. Yeah. It's so awesome. Okay. So let's add that to our recipe card. We need the spirit of prophecy and revelation in order to have a testimony. Elder Bednar spoke about the gift of revelation and prophecy.
And he teaches that revelation is communication from God to his children here upon the earth. And then he gives this great analogy about how it can come suddenly or gradually depending on what light we're talking about. Suddenly it's a light switch and you're like, aha, the answer came. And then he says, gradually the sun is rising.
And And more and more revelation gradually comes. But then he says, as we follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, he is the light. It is one of his names. And this is so important for us as we want to get a testimony of Jesus Christ, because for some of us, things come immediately. Like, Oh, yes, it makes sense.
And then for others, and actually I'd say both in my life, I've had aha moments fast. I've also had gradual moments where things I just learned gradually in my testimony grows. And I wanted to know from the two of you, what is the spirit of prophecy or revelation like for you in your lives?
[00:59:32] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I would definitely say for me, the spirit of revelation is.
Definitely more of a gradual but easy, right? Like, I don't have to struggle with things that are taught. I don't have to second guess. I don't have to, um, it's just, it's one of my gifts. I am really blessed with this gift of the gospel comes easy for me. Um, but with that, What I never really considered was that it also comes with work because just because it's easy, doesn't mean I have to, um, not work at it.
I have to work to continue to have the spirit or to feel connected. And I keep using that word, but it's the thing that I maybe am struggling with the most at this time with just feeling connected. I have to put in the work. I've kind of relied on it comes easy. And so it's like, Oh, okay. But you miss out on a lot of stuff.
And so. Um, so for me, that revelation and that how the spirit speaks and prophecy and all those things. I have no problem accepting it, but it's maybe even like what Paula said, that I have to, I have to work at it like that. What sister Dalton said, will is nothing without the will to prepare. Right. I have to keep continually doing that so that I can have this spirit so I can be enlightened so I can go, Oh yeah.
And be taught.
[01:00:56] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Brown, I have a follow up question. I want, I want to know, let's pretend you and I are just talking on the phone right now. Okay. You're not talking to thousands of people. Um, what do you mean you're right now? It's something you're struggling with. Tell me about that.
[01:01:09] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Well, I think that for a long time, I would say even in the past, like two or three years, just with things with.
That have gone on in my personal life with my parents losing them. They were the connection. They were the connection and the grounding spot for so many things. And for a few years, it's been easy for me to just kind of say, I can't, my dad died, I can't, my mom had a stroke, I can't this, and they're gone.
And now I'm having to read to kind of revisit that, like, Oh, Wait, you can, and you should want to connect with people or, um, You should want to continue to grow and learn and have those aha moments of Christ is your light. He loves you or whatever, whatever that is. And so it's definitely a, you know, kind of been in this stagnant period where I've allowed myself to, but now it's kind of on this upswing of I don't want to anymore.
I can, I can regrow from this and I can, you know, I've been sedentary long enough. It's time to regrow. Just branch out again and pop out. And here we go.
[01:02:20] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I appreciate your honesty with that. In fact, I want you to read this quote. This is by L Alden Porter in October, 1996 general conference. It's talk is called the spirit of prophecy.
And this really struck me. And I think we just need to be reminded of this again. And you beautifully reminded of it in your own life. Will you read this quote for us, please?
[01:02:39] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: You bet. Some years ago, I enjoyed a state conference assignment as a junior companion to Elder LeGrand Richards, who had, under the influence of his directing spirit, reorganized a state presidency.
We were driving home. He was very pensive. After a rather long period of silence, I asked him if there was something he would like to teach me. Quietly, he said, we have too many in the church who deny the spirit of prophecy and of revelation. That was it. He said no more about it as I reminisced about the calling of the new stake president that day.
It occurred to me that this church could not function for even one day without the spirit of prophecy or revelation. But ours is a day of dwindling faith and increasing skepticism. about sacred things. Our time reminds me of the period just prior to the coming of the resurrected savior to this continent.
They were very dark days.
[01:03:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. I mean, I think we can all agree that we need the gift of prophecy and revelation in our lives. And that's why Alma speaks of it so often. And he gives credit to it for what he's able to do and what he's able to say. I'd love to know your thoughts, Paula, anything you have to share about the gift of prophecy and revelation in your own life.
[01:03:57] Paula Millington: Well, I have. Um, I had an interesting thing. Uh, I got pointed to the Bible dictionary and, um, it says divine revelation is one of the grandest concepts and principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For without it, man could not know of the things of God and could not be saved with any degree of salvation in the eternities.
And just thinking about divine revelation is one of the grandest concepts. It just, I totally believe that. And as, and as it, as you get guidance each day on, um, on big things and small things, the things that you need to do, I mean, it, it, it's grand. It's amazing. Um, the, he, that also says the principle of gaining knowledge by revelation is the principle of salvation.
This is so intertwined with salvation. Um, so intertwined with, um, salvation, it helps us without revelation, all would be guesswork, darkness and confusion. And I, I like how Brown was saying, you know, you get, you kind of get different things happen in your life and you're in these different phases and you can't, you can't do everything and you kind of have to pare down and do the important things and then things change.
And you know, this, this cut, this has kind of happened, like, Both of us lost our moms last year and, and, um, and they were the, they were the second to go of our parents. And, and, um, it's, it's that last piece that's kind of binding you together. So you have to figure out how you, you know, how you bind to your family.
And how that, how it's going to work now, I'd compare it to, uh, I was single for, uh, till I was older, kind of, uh, kind of like you and, uh, my stake president asked me if I would be the, I think it was called the young special interest leader of the stake. And I go, well, shouldn't that be a guy? Shouldn't that be a priesthood holder?
Like, well, we don't have any guys and they go, well, what's the purpose of it? You know if there's no guys to do it and and then I said, well, you know, I'll do it But I'd rather strap a pork chop on my back and go into the lion den And they said, uh, we'll get back to you and And, and then they made a singles ward in it, in it, it, uh, it went a different direction.
So, but somewhere between then and now. When we, it was like, Oh, let's, let's, uh, let's go on a mission. We looked, you can look and see the opportunities. And there was an opportunity in Taipei, uh, Taiwan, where my husband served. I served in the South mission. It was like, yeah. And they had a phone number. So we called them and we're like, Hey, we want to do this.
Let's sign up for it. You know? And they're like, no, it doesn't work that way. You put in your papers and God sends you where he needs you. And it's like, okay. And then we hung up and Jeff said, well, are you willing to let. Are we willing to let God prevail? And it was like, yeah, we, the somewhere between strapping the pork chops on your back and being willing, God prevail.
There's a lot of little things that happened all along the way. And you have to document it too, so that you can, I was talking to my sister. We had, when we were getting our papers ready and then. And then when we got our call and it was, uh, there, there, you get this portal and there's, I don't know, 187 things that you need to do.
And there's like 40 have to do that are immediate. And, um, I was talking to my sister and just every day something would come up and it would be crazy and then it would get resolved. And then, and my sister's like, Hey, you got a document, you know, write this down, write these down. And so we, our, our mission journal started like when we.
Well, we just put our papers in cause we just had so many miracles and so many tender mercies and just so much help. So I think you have to recognize it.
[01:08:02] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I'm so glad you brought that up. In fact, we're going to, we're going to talk about that point at the very end cause that's what this whole summer of joy is about.
And counting it joy is to document. All of these things so we can remember. So thank you, Paula. Okay. So here's what we're going to do. Then we have one more segment left and we're going to add one more ingredient to our recipe card. And I cannot wait to show you because it's the most important ingredient we could possibly have.
And you guys already kind of have it on your recipe card, but I want to know where you're going to put it on your recipe card. We'll do that next.
Segment 6
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[01:08:38] Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. I have a story for you. I heard this soundbite from my friend and author, Dr. Camille Fronk Olson. And in a talk that she gave, she shared a story about running into a former seminary student of hers that grew up and left the church. And she was attending a Protestant church in the area. And Camille thought, Oh, that's interesting.
And so she said to the young woman, tell me about your decision. This young woman replied. Well, when I attended the LDS church, we talked about honesty, reading scriptures, getting married in the temple, and what it means to have a living prophet. But I never heard very much about Jesus Christ. In the new church I attend, Jesus is at the heart and soul of all their sermons.
Camille said, I was in complete denial. So she went to school the next day and asked her seminary students. She said a great majority agreed with her and to her amazement, she couldn't believe the kids then said, well, he's only in our hymns and our prayers at the end of talks. And so she then said, I made a silent vow that day that I would never teach a lesson or give a talk without making a connection.
To the atonement of Jesus Christ. That struck me because I thought, Oh my gosh, our goal this year with Book of Mormon is to anticipate Christ and to find him and be excited for when he comes again. And so let's go to Alma chapter seven, verse seven, because Alma speaking to the people, he's talking to them.
He's given them a recipe for obtaining this testimony. He talks about a true and living God in verse six, but then he hits us with verse seven. Brown, can you read that for us, please?
[01:10:07] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Sure. For behold, I say unto you, there'll be many things to come. And behold, there is one thing which is of more importance than they all.
For behold, the time is not far distant that the Redeemer liveth and cometh among his people.
[01:10:25] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Now we're going to draw a line where it says the time is not far distant. We're going to draw a line and connect it right up to chapter seven, the date it says about 83 BC. So when he says the time is not far distant, it actually is like it's going to be a while.
And I think these people heard this and thought Christ is coming tomorrow or in a year or so. And we would love it if that could happen. We talk a lot about Christ is coming, but I think it's beautiful right here that says that the Redeemer liveth and cometh among his people. And we're anticipating that Christ will do that.
Does he live among us now? That's my question for you too. Yes. Yeah. Tell me how he lives among us.
[01:11:12] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I think that the way that I know that he lives among us or among me and my kids is by meeting people. Maybe it's through other people. Um, I think that I recognize that he is among us when you have those great little tender moments of conversation and your kids bear testimony, then I know, Oh yeah, he is here.
He's teaching them much more than I am in those other moments that I'm not physically there with them. Um, yeah. He's teaching in the 3. 30 a. m. moments, uh, when you wake up with the thoughts of make sure they know this, or have you taught him that, or remind them to do this. He's watching over me and, and guiding me as I teach about him.
[01:12:03] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And you've done that with your kids.
[01:12:05] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I hope so. You know, I hope I've done that with other people. I hope that people would go, Oh, look at her. Yep. She's got his image in her countenance. Yep.
[01:12:15] Paula Millington: You do. You just, you're a light.
[01:12:17] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: And so I think that that's for me, how I know that he liveth.
[01:12:22] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Brown, who's someone in your life that you know has Christ's image in their countenance?
[01:12:28] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Oh, I would say 100%, right? Like my sister, Kristen. I would say that she truly tries every single day to know what to do. She was just called as the Relief Society President of her ward, the Tooele 13th Ward. Hi ladies. And she prays every day, Heavenly Father, help me to know who to serve. Help me to know how to meet the needs.
And it's not her, it's, you know, Christ saying, or Heavenly Father saying, go to this person. Cause anyway, she just really does try and strive every single day to Be a light to somebody. It's really great. Such a good example. So right now she would be like one of the biggest people in my life.
[01:13:13] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Brown. Paula, how do you know that the Redeemer lives?
[01:13:18] Paula Millington: I, I've, I feel it in service, you know, like things that people do for me and, um, just the way that things have been orchestrated and people have come into my, into my life, whether it's whether I needed them or they needed me. You know, it's just been, it's just amazing, and I, I look at the end of each day, and there's, I can just point to the Savior's hand in, in so many things.
Um, my, my, um, Mom was a member, but not a dad. My dad was not a member,
so I, I don't have those kind of stories that, Brown has, but, you know, and my parents were wonderful. They had a lot of faith. Um, and so I really, Relied on my sisters, you know, us three. They got, you know, they got married in the temple. They, they did all the things. They, they still do. They're those kind of people that, that reach out and And help others and sorry, you got me going, but it's, and then we've had, we've just had a wonderful friends and ward family and all kinds of people that, um, you know, have come into our life.
And you just know that the Savior's, that the Savior's hand is, is, he's got a hand in that and he's, uh, orchestrated that to, to happen. But you know, um, how it talks about that he, that he'll go forth suffering pains and affliction and, and temptations of every kind. And then he said he'll take upon him the pains and sicknesses of his people.
And then he says he'll loose the bands of death with bind. His people and he'll, uh, sucker his people and then 13 he'll take upon him the sins of his people. And I just thought, Oh my gosh, look at his people, all the things that he's going to do for him. And it's like, I want to be his people. Oh yeah. I want to be his people.
And I, I was in a really bad, uh, motorcycle accident and my parents came down and they got me and they took me home and I was just at their house and everybody just took care of me. This happened September 15th and I went back to work on February 1st. So I was there for months and they were just my people and they, they just, they did everything for me to help me heal.
And this is what Christ will do. It's very personal, very personal, according to what. According to you, according to you, you know, but anyway, I just, I just want to be his people.
[01:16:04] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, me too. I think it's neat because these are like the classic atonement verses. These are the atonement of Jesus Christ verses.
And I love now I'm going to put, they equal his people. That's neat. Thank you, Paula. That's so cool.
[01:16:20] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: And I think I even love that we are already his people, whether we consider ourselves that or not, but we are, but we do have to continue to do something to stay part of his people. It's on us. He's already accepted us as his people.
But we still have to work at it to continue to be that. And if we feel like we're not, it's us. Not,
[01:16:41] Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just thought of a title for our recipe cards. It's the recipe of his people.
[01:16:46] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: Oh, yeah. That's what that recipe is called.
[01:16:50] Tammy Uzelac Hall: This is the best recipe for being his people. Oh my gosh. This is awesome. Wow. Thank you, ladies.
That was an awesome discussion today. That's the end. We're done. I love you. Wow. I love you. This was great. I have one final question I'm going to ask you. This, as you know, is our summer of joy, and we are focusing on the scripture in James chapter one, verse two, where it says to count it all joy when we come up against affliction or tribulation.
And so my final question for guests this summer is how do you do that? How do you count it joy when times are hard?
[01:17:25] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I think that I count joy. I just, I life's too short to not be happy. Life's too short to blame or to be sad. And I just count it joy. Like it's, I'm living my best life, getting to raise my kids.
I'm living my best life. I have a daughter who's getting ready to serve a mission. This is my best life. And I would, it just would feel so. I feel so ungrateful if I didn't go, you know what, it's hard, but this is so much fun. So my joy is because it's fun. I don't want to be sad. I don't want to feel poor picked on me.
I want to enjoy it. And I'm just going to hit it head on and I'm going to love it. You know, Elder Wirthlin, come what may and love it. I'm going to love it because it's just too much fun to not to be sad about what, what I've been handed. I'm just going to have fun and I'm going to, I'm going to find joy in that journey.
And in that journey, I'm going to find Christ and find friends and love this and it's just really great. That's probably not what you wanted, but that is
[01:18:34] Tammy Uzelac Hall: exactly what I wanted.
[01:18:36] Kimberley Brown Sorenson: I love it. Best time of my life.
[01:18:39] Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's a great answer, Brown. Best time of my life. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Oh, great answer. Thank you. Paula, how do you count it, Joy? Well, you don't get what you want and when life didn't turn out like you thought it would when you get asked to be the special interest ward coordinator Aka with singles ward for older people.
[01:18:58] Paula Millington: Oh it you know, um, I I uh, I thought about this Uh, question, because it's like, yeah, I, I, I got joy, you know, maybe 40 years later, you know, I, I, I went back and, uh, kind of revisit that accident and all the things that I learned and, and all, how wonderful people were to me and how good my family was.
And I came home. And, you know, they took care of me and I, I think that's how it's going to be, you know, to return to my heavenly father, I'm going to come home. I'm going to be, I'm going to be his people. And so I, uh, it's kind of embarrassing to, to, um, think that you have trials and. Whatever because compared to the Savior and you know and to other people and what they're going through.
I I don't I don't have anything so It's it's hard to it's hard to to do that, but it's interesting that even the Savior this whole thing in Chapter 7 he came to earth according to the flesh. And so apparently he knew everything, but apparently he still needed experience. So when we get into these situations, we can just like, Oh joy, we can experience, you know, and we can just face it and we can, We, he, he'll give us the strength to face anything that we need to and, and what a joy it is to know that.
So anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to be with Brown and we're going to be just joyful.
[01:20:27] Tammy Uzelac Hall: And I like how you said what a joy it is to know that. I think that's really beautiful. And Paula, going back to what you said earlier about write it down, we've encouraged everybody to have a joy journal.
And either at the end of a day or at the end of the week, write down how you either saw God's hand in your life or what you were grateful for. We're going to remember it. Like you said, Paul, you got to write it down so that when times are really tough, you can be reminded, Oh yeah, God did love me. He does love me.
I'm his people. All of that. So continue to write in your journal. And then on Saturday we want to know, I want to know, how did you see, how did you count at joy this week? So thank you. Thank you for being here. Love you guys. Love you. Take care. Love you. Bye bye.