SOM Transcript - S4E53

The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections. 

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Tammy Uzelac Hall: [00:00:00] For the past month, we have had the opportunity to live out the invitation from the book of Revelation to come and see. And we have come and seen Jesus throughout all of these chapters. Today, as we study Revelation chapter 15 through 22, the final chapters of John's Revelation, we will come and see that Christ is The bright morning star that shines in the dark sky is a promise that dawn is coming soon.

And it is coming soon. And He is coming. And according to Revelation, chapters 15 through 22, He comes soon. So, as we patiently wait, we see that in our waiting, Our hope and faith has been purified in the fires of latter day adversity will have us all calling out together. Even so come Lord Jesus. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week.

[00:01:00] And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tami Usilac Hall. Now, if you're new to our study group, Please follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come Follow Me study, just like my friend, Jenny Luke from Ogden, Utah.

Hi, Jenny! Okay, now, another awesome thing about our study group, and you all know what it is, is I'm joined by two of my friends each week, so it's a little bit different. But sometimes I just have one friend, and that's what we've had for the whole book of Revelation, and I cannot think of a better person to end this discussion with than my good friend S. Michael Wilcox.

Michael Wilcox: Hello. Hi, Tammy. Nice to be here. I'm so happy to see you.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's always fun to talk with you. I love you. Okay, listen, for those of you listening, If you have not read his book, Who Shall Be Able to Stand, Finding Personal Meaning in the Book of Revelation, I'm going to recommend you do. I just think, Michael, your superpower is application to scriptures, and you beautifully did that in this book of Revelation.[00:02:00]

I loved reading it, and I, in fact, when you and I were talking back and forth about what we're going to talk about, I said, I've got to finish your book first. Because I started it, and I've kind of read it, and I've used it here and there, different chapters, but I've never sat down and read it all the way through.

And it was It's so great. Oh, well, thank you. I mean, I've pulled things from it for other things I've written and taught, but the way you do it really is your superpower.

Michael Wilcox: Thank you. I try and approach Revelation, um, really all, Isaiah, Ezekiel, all of those. You have to turn the left brain off and turn the right brain on.

And read it the way you'd read, uh, poetry, it's symbolic, uh, we, we got to read it figuratively and not literally. And then it starts to come alive and you begin to see what's, what's going on in there. Um, I think that's the best way to read it and, and also try to find to what John's message is for us. You know?

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have my scriptures open right here. I also have, uh, pens and scripture highlighters and everything [00:03:00] because. I hope like you listening, you have the same stuff and I hope you are ready to just mark up your scriptures because if you remember the last episode we had with, I want to say professor, but you know, with, with Michael, brother, Michael Wilcox, you're going to be marking your scriptures a ton.

So if you want to know more about him, you can go to our show notes, which are at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday and read his bio and see his picture. But right now I just want you to grab your scriptures, something to mark your scriptures with, and let's dig into revelation chapters 15 through 22.

Great. Okay, Michael, here we go. So, one of the things that I liked, and I put this in my scriptures, is at Revelation chapter 15, you call chapter 15 breathing space. Right. This chapter. So, tell us a little bit why you call it breathing space and guide us through chapter 15.

Michael Wilcox: Okay. Some of the imagery in Revelation is pretty intense.

Yeah. And occasionally you need a breather. You need to say, okay, I need a little hope. Uh, I need some images that [00:04:00] aren't so distressing. And chapter 15 provides that. It says look beyond the trials, look beyond the problems, look beyond the wars, and the beasts, and the harlots, and realize the ending.

Sometimes it's good to stand back from Revelation and just very briefly see the thread that runs through it. And that thread has to do with the hope that at the end, And we're going to come back to the, the sea of glass in Revelation 15, 2. That's an earlier image. It's actually the first image that Joseph Smith explains in section 77.

So he obviously felt that was an important one because that's the first one he goes to.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Isn't that interesting that of all the chapters The first question he has starts in 15.

Michael Wilcox: What's the sea of glass? Yeah. And the sea of glass is the earth in a sanctified, purified form. It's what happens after it's been burned.[00:05:00]

You know, too many people have in their minds the image when the earth is going to be burned or cleansed. They have an image of a black cinder. That's not the image you want. The image is the sea of glass image. It's a hot. The ball of glowing glass, it's going to be purified. That's the sea of glass. In the early chapters, and I don't know what you talked about, I'm just trying to kind of catch us up and get us in in the flow here.

After the initial messages to the seven churches, you see God the Father sitting on his throne and the sea of glass immediately comes in into focus, which is the earth in its final form, purified, clear, beautiful, in 15, to the righteous are standing on it now. You don't have that in the earlier chapter.

But in 15, the righteous are standing on it singing, um, the song of Moses, which is a victory song, and the song of the Lamb, which is a victory [00:06:00] song. Uh, after Pharaoh's armies are destroyed, they sing a song of victory. So, you have the sea of glass, and God holds up the book with seven seals that need to be revealed.

We call this revelation because we're going to reveal what's in the book. And the book, Joseph tells us, is the history of the world and God's desires for the world. We, the last paragraphs, the last pages of the last book, the earth is the sea of glass. It's beautiful, it's pure, it's righteous. We don't have things going on like we see going on in the world today in Ukraine and Gaza and Yemen and Sudan and those things are gone and the world is purified and God holds up the book and says, who can fulfill my will for this world?

And nobody volunteers. Fix the world? You've got to be kidding. I don't know how to fix the world. And John [00:07:00] weeps. And then Christ comes and takes the book out of the Father's hand. I will see that your will is done. In a sense, I will see that when we get to the last pages of the last chapter, the last seal, it's going to be the sea of glass you want at your feet.

That's what it's going to be and the righteous will be. We'll be on it. Then he begins to open the seals, and he goes through the first ones very, very quickly, and as you go through the first ones, essentially, you're saying, okay, what is the history of the world been like? He starts with the four horsemen.

It's been a history the white horse of conquest. It's been a history red horse of war. Conquest leads to war. It's been a history of black horse famine and hunger. It's been a history of disease and pestilence, pale green horse. [00:08:00] Four because they're going in four different directions. They're, they're everywhere on the earth.

Fifth seal, the good people who try and Stand against war and conquest, get killed. Okay? It's martyrdom. And then you have earthquakes and sun blackened and the moon turned to blood. It's, it's a suggestion of instability, darkness, etc. So this is the history of the world. You see Satan fall into the pit of hell.

Smoke bubbles out of it. Uh, that's the smoke that gives birth to the locusts of war that destroy everything. It's a smoke of hate, bigotry, prejudice, greed, power. These are the things that blind people's eyes. And so you're kind of reading through these things and you probably talked about those in the last episodes But just trying to kind of get us into the the where [00:09:00] we are That's what Christ has to fix.

That's what we've got to get out of we got to get the four horsemen on horse We got to get the the locus of war stopped So we get to the last chapter We get to the happiness, we get, and because some of the images have been pretty horrific, uh, the image just before chapter 15 is the Two harvests. One of the keys of Revelation is that everything comes in twos.

It's parallelism. Everything's in two. We'll see there's two cities, two brides, two marks, two harvests, two feasts, stars, everything's parallel. And if you can figure out one, you can figure out the other. So the last image we have is The winepress, first the harvest of the righteous, and then the harvest of the grapes of wrath.

And it ends with the blood, [00:10:00] this is an image of war, it's another description of Armageddon, we'll get to that in 16. It's an image of, it's a horrific image, uh, blood flowing out of the winepress as deep as the bridles of the horses. And so now this, this, the soul says, Ooh, wow. I need to see beyond the trials.

And that is a great message for all of us in life. When things get really bad, and sometimes they get bad, not just in the world, but in our own personal lives. You have to see beyond it. And so John is saying in 15, it's just a little chapter. I want you to look beyond it. I know it's bad. We just talked, I just showed you the beast.

I know it's bad, but um, Remember, we're getting to the last chapter, last pages, last paragraph. It's going to be, it's going to be happy. God deals in happy endings. God [00:11:00] is the ultimate and they lived happily ever after, okay? Uh, except his happiness always gets bigger and better as we go. So I think that's what chapter 15 is basically about.

Grabbing that first image that he starts with and saying, Don't forget. In your horsemen, in your locusts, in your beasts, in your dragons, uh, how it's going to end, it's going to end good. And, you know, we were talking a little bit before we started about the situation in Gaza and Ukraine and sometimes chapter 15.

I can almost hear the Lord say, Mike, I know it's bad. I know horrible things are going on. But ultimately, in the long run,

The world is going to be a beautiful place and people are going to stand on it Singing the song of victory the victory of [00:12:00] goodness and peace and love and the ending of tears For this earth is as bad as it's been. I don't know if that helps any in terms of that Well,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm not gonna lie as as you were finishing up what you were saying right there.

I found myself taking a breath like okay, I mean everyone listening just take in a big deep breath right here because It is going to end and I like how you said God is the best when it comes to happily ever afters and In fact, you could even say using Hebrewism three happies It's the happiest happiest happiest of endings for all of us, and I'm so grateful you said that so 15 is a breath Everyone just take a breath.

We have come from some crazy chapters. And so let's just breathe And I like it. Everything's going to work out. That Song of Moses, if you want to mark that and put next to verse 3, put Exodus 15, is where you'll find the Song of Moses. And I love the wording in verse 3. Can we just [00:13:00] end with verse 3? I love the wording that they use in this.

Michael Wilcox: And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are thy ways, thou King of Saints. Who shall not fear thee? Reverence is what it means. Reverence thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name, for thou only art holy, for all nations shall come and worship before thee, for thy judgments are made manifest.

And it is, it's a very beautiful, it's a, okay, it's gonna, it's gonna be alright in the long On the, in the long view, there's actually a hymn we sing that comes from those verses. Oh, what hymn is it? Uh, it's hymn number 267, How Wondrous and Great. And if you, we don't sing it very often, unfortunately, but we ought to do it.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, I was going to [00:14:00] say, whoever is in charge of music in your ward, choose 267. That is awesome.

Michael Wilcox: Sure, it's only two verses, but, uh, but it's coming out of chapter 15 because it's talking about, um, the. Earth as the sea of glass, they're going to sing the song of Moses and the Lamb. And so maybe one day you and I will sing hymn 267 when we're standing on the sea of glass and the earth is finally what we all dream it, it ought to be, what it should be, what we hope it will be, what Christ, when he opens the last seal, will ensure us it will be.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, well, everybody breathe, and take as long as you need to breathe, and you're going to want to breathe before we jump in to Revelation 16, because now we're going to get into some crazy stuff. We'll do that next.

Segment 2

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[00:15:00]

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, let's turn to Revelation chapter 16, verse 16, and you're going to mark a word that is only found right here, and we use it so often that I thought it was just everywhere in scripture the first time I taught it, and so here it is. What's the word that we're going to mark, Michael?

Michael Wilcox: Armageddon, is that the one you're talking about?

Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's the one! We have to talk about it. Yeah. So talk to us about Armageddon and Chapter 16.

Michael Wilcox: Okay. And it's a scary word. Armageddon has become so prevalent. The imagery of the wine press is much more used in Scripture, and it's the same thing. We just had the wine press imagery in Chapter 14, but this word has captivated people.

So let's put it in the context of Chapter 16. Our breathing space is over. And we're back into what I call, um, we're going to eliminate what I call the unholy trinity in the next few chapters, [00:16:00] okay? The unholy trinity? The unholy trinity. Cam, writing that down. Of power over people, over the earth, the way that the adversary rules.

One is the beast, which represents the political military. Uh, the beast lives the law of the jungle. It's a dog eat dog world out there. Survival of the fittest, looking out for number one. That's the beast. That's the political. They are predators. They prey on the weak. I like that. The history of the world has been that we're going to add the unholy trinity to the four horsemen and the locus of war.

All these things Christ has to change. And he's going to replace the unholy trinity with his. Uh, so, so that's the beast. Uh, the second is the religious establishment. That's the harlot. We'll see that in chapter 17. Uh, instead of the bride, you have the harlot and the last is the merchant city Babylon instead of Zion.

And that's the [00:17:00] economic. So I have the political, the religious, and the economic, and they make a fist together and by which humanity has been ruled, okay, unfortunately. So chapter 16, uh, you have a number of things going on in chapter 16 before we get to that word Armageddon. We ended with the Song of Moses.

We have the Song of Moses in chapter 15. It takes us back to the defeat of Pharaoh. In chapter 16 you have allusions. The Old Book of Revelation is full of allusions to Old Testament stories and things. To the plagues of Egypt. Um, so you have, uh, In verse 2, kind of boils, annoys some grievous sore. You have water turning to blood in 3, 4, 5.

Um, you have darkness in verse 10. You have [00:18:00] frogs in verse 13. You have hail in verse 21. So everybody recognize all those, okay? So he's taking plague imagery. Why is he doing that? Because after every plague, no matter how bad it got to the Egyptians, Pharaoh hardened his heart and wouldn't repent. Right. So that's why he's drawing it here.

You'll see in verse nine, they repented not. Things are bad. You know, water turning to blood is on the sea and the rivers and fountains, I think means they're fighting by land and by sea. And when you fight battles. I mean, I think that's what we're dealing with there. Um, you see it again in verse 11. Um, they repented not of their deeds.

So no matter how bad it is, uh, in the world, nobody's changing. [00:19:00] Babylon's not changing. The beast is the beast, and the harlot's the harlot, and the merchant city that we're gonna see in the next chapters, uh, the four horsemen ride, and nobody's changing. So let's prepare them for destruction. And how do they, how are they destroyed?

Uh, they destroy each other. Okay, they destroy each other, and they destroy each other at Armageddon, okay? So we've got, so let's start in verse 12 to lead up to it. He's making an allusion, the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates and the water was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

That's an allusion to the fall of Babylon, and fortunately a Greek historian named Herodotus told us how the Persians defeated Babylon. They diverted the river Euphrates, which flowed under the walls of [00:20:00] Babylon, and then they just walked right up the river bed. Okay, so Babylon falls in a day, literally.

Persia is east of Iraq, where Babylon was located. So it's an illusion. Prepare the way. for the fall of Babylon. Anybody in John's, who knew a little history of the ancient world, would know that that's an allusion to the fall of Babylon by the Persians. The Persians are the kings of the east. Okay. Verse 13.

Now we got to gather everybody to a place where they can destroy one another. I saw three unclean spirits like frogs. Frogs was a plague of Egypt. So we're going to have a plague. Come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. That's such a weird verse.

Well, you, you, everything's a parallel in Revelation. So you find the opposite of out of the mouth. And we'll see a little bit later, you know, we [00:21:00] see it earlier in the first part, there's a couple of places in chapter 19, for instance, 15 out of his mouth, out of Christ's mouth goes a sharp sword and he'll smite the nations with it.

Well, what's the sharp sword out of the mouth of Christ? My word is quick and powerful, sharper than a two edge sword. So the sword out of the mouth of Christ is truth. Uh, therefore the frogs out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet must be by opposite. Lies. Yes. That's the way you work with Revelation.

You try and put it together. That's awesome. So the frogs are going to go out and they're going to croak. They're going to croak to who? They're going to croak to the kings of the world, to the nations, right? Verse 14, they go to the kings of the earth. Now what are they croaking, these falsehoods that come out of their mouth?

Well, the beasts made your. Croak [00:22:00] falsehood is the law of the beast, the law of the jungle. Uh, you will win in the wars and the battles. Why you are the most powerful. So you'll win by law, the beast, you will. There's a beautiful little, uh, story in 1 Kings 22 of Ahab when Micaiah, he wants to go to battle with Assyrians.

And he gets Jehoshaphat, the king of Judah, to come up with him. They want to go to battle and take over the Golan Heights. And they, Jehoshaphat wants a prophet of Jehovah to say, should we go to battle? Because you always had to have God on your side before you went. But you needed a sign that you would know God is on your side.

And so Ahab gets all his false prophets. One of them puts horns of a bull on his head and says, with these horns, you'll push the Syrians off the hills and God is with you. He will bless [00:23:00] you. You're the most powerful. God is on your side. The beast's frog croaks. You're the most powerful. The false prophet croaks.

God is on your side, and if God is on your side, and you're the most powerful, you can go to war because you will win, okay? So when Micaiah talks about that, he creates this little image in heaven. He says, I saw God in heaven talking to his angels and things, and they want to get rid of you, Ahab, because you're wicked.

And they need to get rid of you. And they had a discussion on how we should get rid of you. And one had this idea, and another had this idea, and then somebody said, I'll be A lying spirit in the mouths of his prophets to convince him to go to war. And God said, that will work. Go and do it. So Ahab goes to war and Micaiah says, [00:24:00] you'll not come back alive.

So this is the spirit that brings people to Armageddon. The frog image is just such good in the latter days through the whole history of the world really. Yeah. There will be a plague. of lies and the plague of lies will say you are the strongest. You're the most powerful. You got the biggest army and your cause is just and God is with you.

Even if you don't have the biggest army, God is with you. And that brings them to where? To Armageddon. Now he gives a little warning in 15. Blessed is he that watches. Okay, keeps his garments, means keeps his covenants. Um, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. And he gathered them. So he's saying, I think what he's saying is, Don't go to Armageddon.

[00:25:00] Don't listen to the croaking frogs. He gathered them together in a place in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. Har in Hebrew means hill and the H is a very soft sound so you drop the H Har Megiddo. Megiddo was an actual place in Israel. You can visit it. It was an ancient city, a very strategic city because it guarded a pass through the Carmel mountain range on one of the main highways of the ancient world.

So a lot of battles were fought at Megiddo, at the hill of Megiddo. It's just been put together. It's really two words, hard. Megiddo. Megiddo. The hill of Megiddo. I'm going to gather them at the hill of Megiddo. Now for anybody in John's age, anybody who knew the history of Israel and how many nations and peoples fought, uh, at Megiddo, because if you wanted to control the roots, you had to control that, that site.[00:26:00]

Tammy Uzelac Hall: So this makes sense to them, this word.

Michael Wilcox: It made sense to them. Yeah. Of course they would battle there. Uh, harm Megiddo. It makes perfect sense to them. If we were to try and put it in our own words, you know, we think it's one great big battle literally in Israel. I would never try and deny the literal, but I, I think you're going to really miss things.

I don't think it's, in the way modern wars are fought, one big battle in the a certain valley, the Jezreel Valley in Israel. Um, becomes less and less, uh, credible. Mm hmm. We have to understand sometimes something happens at a geographic location that, uh, the geographic location is no longer important, but the meaning of what happened there becomes important.

So let me, we word it in a way you might under, that people might understand, what if he said He gathered them together in a place called Waterloo. We would [00:27:00] not read that to say we're all going to Belgium. Right. We would read it, Oh, Waterloo, that is no longer has a meaning of a city. It has a meaning of defeat, because that's where Napoleon was defeated.

Right. Or if we said, I'll gather them at a place called the Little Bighorn. Right. In the American tongue, little, I want you Americans to understand, so I'll put it in in your framework, well, that's Custer's last stand. We would know that that means they'll be defeated and destroyed. Mm hmm. Armageddon means a place where they, nations gather to fight and to destroy each other.

That's awesome. I call this the children's story version of Armageddon. Uh, when I was little, my mother used to read to me a book called, uh, I think it was Billions of Cats. Maybe it was Millions of Cats, anyway. Uh, a little old man, a little old woman, I'll do it quick, want a cat. So a little old man goes to the Valley of Cats, and [00:28:00] he sees all these cats, and he picks one he thinks is the prettiest.

And then, uh, he looks at another one. Oh, that's a pretty one, I want that one too. Oh, and I want that. Pretty soon he chooses all billion cats. Hahaha. And he brings them all back to the little old lady, and the little old lady says, we can't keep all these cats. Let's just keep the, the prettiest one or the best one.

And so as soon as the cats hear that, they all start to cry and meow. I'm the best. I'm the best. I'm the prettiest. I'm the one you want. And they begin to fight with each other. And it scares a little old man, a little old woman, so they go inside the door, the house, shut the door, and they can hear all these fighting and going on outside and, and it's diminished to slowly down, down, down and, and silence.

They open the door. The cats are all gone, but one little cat sitting underneath the tree. And they say, what happened? Well, so, well, they all thought they were the prettiest and the best and that they ought to be chosen. And so they just fought and scratched and ate each other up. And [00:29:00] I just sat here under the tree because I wasn't going to play that game.

You know, the doctrine of covenants, Joseph says, I will be the only people not at war with one another. That's the little cat sitting under the tree. Armageddon has been going on for. a long time. It's going on now as we speak. It's not a, to me, it is not a single event. It is the frogs croaking and all the kings are listening to because they're croaking to everybody.

And they all come together, and they scratch, and they hiss, and they bite, and nations rise, and nations fall. We've seen it. To me, that's Armageddon. Wow. Now the last part, really quick, and then I'll, then I'll give you the, the non, uh, symbolic version of Armageddon. Where if you said, look, I just want a straight, I don't want Uh, children's story versions of it, and I don't want frogs croaking version.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, I [00:30:00] kind of like the children's story. I like the children's story, too. I like that Zion is the cat under the tree. It's the cat under the tree.

Michael Wilcox: The one who didn't fight. Well, we're not going to play that. We're not going to play that. It's, it's Isaiah's, the lion and the lamb, although it's the wolf and the lamb and the leopard and the kid and the bear and the calf.

That beautiful prophecy we have pictures of. And we miss it because we read it, we think he's, Isaiah's talking about animals. And I like to ask, do you think Isaiah is really concerned about animals? Right. No, he's concerned about nations and peoples who follow the law of the beast, the predatory nature.

And he's saying, under Christ's name, one time, at the end of the book, when we get to the last pages, the law of the jungle is going to be replaced. The beast is going to die at Armageddon. How is he going to die? They're going to wipe each other out.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and I like in verse 17, It is done. It is done. And that it's the voice out of the temple of heaven.

We talked about the temple [00:31:00] of heaven in our first series of Book of Revelation, how it's throughout this book, and there I am seeing Zion, this little cat, um, waiting for him, his master to say, it is done. It is done. I think that's beautiful, Michael.

Michael Wilcox: Then you have the last cleanup in the last verses.

There's a big earthquake that rocks the whole earth. Okay. And the big earthquake is, it's got to be big enough. Earthquakes are dangerous because they knock things down. So what city do we have to knock down? We're going to knock down Babylon. Where is Babylon? Well, it's on the whole earth. Oh, yeah. So it's got to be an earthquake that shakes the whole earth.

And then it says, 19, the great city, Babylon, divided into three parts. That's an allusion to Ezekiel in chapter five, where he's asked to shave his beard and divide it into three piles of hair. And he burns one and he cuts the other up with a knife. And he throws the rest in the wind and runs chasing and slashing with a [00:32:00] knife.

You know, prophets in the old Testament used to do really fun stuff. Now they, they're dignified and they stand at the conference center. But how would it be to see president Nelson, you know, cut his hair and burn part of it. So he divides it into three parts. Okay. Meaning some will be burned in the destruction, some killed by the sword, some scattered and people chasing them.

There's nowhere you can get away from it. Verse 20, there's no island you can flee to. The islands are running away. There's no mountaintop to hide on. The mountains aren't there. And those that are left We get the last plague, the hail, the hail oye. And that's an allusion to Joshua. Okay? When Joshua fights a battle in the Ong Valley, this is the day the sun stands still.

He wins the battle, his enemies are fleeing, and a great hailstone comes down to finish him off. So the whole, the [00:33:00] whole of chapter 16 is they're gonna destroy each other, okay? And he has these last two illusions and there's no place they can hide. The hail is going to get them divided into three parts.

Um, if you wanted, and I'm sure we're past our limit here. If you want the non, the non, uh, symbolic version of Armageddon, you read section 87 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I put that to the outside of my verses right here. So everyone write Doctrine and Covenants section 87.

Michael Wilcox: It's the prophecy on war given Christmas Day, given on Christmas Day, the day we associate with peace because the message is there'll be no peace on earth, goodwill toward men.

There are wars that are very, very destructive coming. And he talks about three kinds of wars, civil wars, world wars, and revolutions. And if, and I say 87, that's Armageddon. It's [00:34:00] going on now. It continues to go on. And he gives us the counsel at the end. Stand ye in holy places, be not moved, get under, you're the cat under the tree.

Wherefore, because all this is taking place, you know, he talks about earthquakes and lightnings and things also in that. You stand in the holy places, three holy places. The home, Isaiah gives us these. The home, the stakes of Zion, and the temple. You make your stand, you, you fight, make a stand, make a stand in the home, make them strong in the stake.

Power and the strength we give to one another and in the protection of the covenants in, in the temple. And you'll, you'll survive the Armageddons all the things that Revelation is. People are going to [00:35:00] be impacted by them obviously, but um, that's kind of 16. Sorry, that's a fast version of that. Wow.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow, that was so much.

Oh my gosh, everyone needs a breath after that, but you don't get to take one. No more reading chapters. Oh, next segment then? We're going to cover what we like to call the three D's of Remolation. Delicacies, deities, and deliciously. Oh my. We'll do that next.

Segment 3

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Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, I'm really excited about this, especially because when we were talking about what we were going to discuss, you brought this up with these D words in chapter 18. Right. So before we get into 18 though, tell us a little bit about this crazy harlot whore in 17.

Michael Wilcox: Okay, one just real quick. What I call the unholy trinity, we got to get rid of, we got to replace them.

Okay. We got to get the lamb lying down with the lion and that's going to [00:36:00] replace the beast. And we got to, we have to have the bride to replace the harlot. We have to have, uh, Zion consecration to replace the merchant city. So 17 talks about the, uh, the harlot, uh, because Christ's. People, his church is his bride, um, a harlot imagery if she leaves him for the kings of the world And for money anyway,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: i'm glad you brought that up because for a lot of women and for me I would read this and feel bad about myself.

Like why is this bad thing being compared to a woman? But i'm grateful you brought up that Christ's people is compared to a woman. And we learned that two weeks ago, how important that is. So that's why it's a woman. And she has, she has left him for another lover.

Michael Wilcox: That's right. Yes, other religions. And, and we're gonna see his bride.

Yeah. In chapter, uh, 19. We're gonna see the bride and again, they're parallel. So I gotta see the, the, what we're gonna replace. Right. And the bride is his people, so the [00:37:00] harlot usually represents, generally speaking, just trying to make it simple, the religious. If the beast is the political, the harlot is the religious.

And she rides the beast, and that is such a powerful image. She sits on the beast. She also sits on waters. John tells us the waters means many people everywhere all over the world. It's a dangerous thing when the political and the religious Uh, we believe in this nation and separation of church and state.

Uh, that's a gift Thomas Jefferson and James Madison gave to us. You're going to separate it. Because there you can see many places in the world and throughout history, the danger when The political, you know, she rides the beast. So either that means the political is upholding the religious with political power.

They're forcing religious things on people. [00:38:00] Or the religious directs, like you would ride a horse, directs the, uh, the political. Either way. So, so what we want is to unhorse it. Okay. We, uh, there are places in the world you can see all through history. You know, you, you end up with things like the Spanish Inquisition when the political and the, and the religious ride each other and support each other.

That's just the one thing I would do here in chapter 17. If you wanted a kind of a lovely positive out of 17, it's in verse 14 when he talks about those that are called chosen. And that takes us to section 121. Why are people Not chosen when they're called because they don't know how to handle power.

They don't know how to handle political power They don't know how to handle particularly in 121 religious power and the list of the principles of righteousness begins with [00:39:00] Persuasion, but if you're the harlot sitting on the beast, you don't need to use persuasion. Okay, you've got the power behind you So that's kind of that.

That's the second of that what I call the unholy Trinity. Okay, the religious mingled with the The political and we want to separate them.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So then in verse 18 when it says and the woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth Verse 18 is like a bridge to chapter 18.

That's right. Tell us about that connection with this woman and then these D words in chapter 18. I like what you write about them.

Michael Wilcox: Yeah, you're gonna see that Things morph, they, like a kaleidoscope, they, so the woman becomes the city, and now we're in chapter 18 to the economic, the economic power over people, and I call them the D's because John uses three words of what the economic city The Great Merchant City sells or has to offer the [00:40:00] world, and we may not as Latter day Saints be so wrapped up in political power or in apostate doctrines, but we like to go shopping in the Merchant City.

And so we have to be a little careful of the D's. The first D is in verse 3. Okay. Again, this is where We're coming to the, the economic power over humanity. The merchants of the earth are waxed, which through the abundance of her delicacies. That's D1. Yes. The merchant city has delicacies to sell you. And then the warning come out of her.

Don't get caught up in this materialistic. I got to have a lot of stuff. Yeah. I like that. Come out of her. Come out of her. Okay. Leave. Uh, verse seven, I get the second D. How much she hath glorified herself and lived deliciously. Um, the world, the merchant city has a lot of delicious delicacies to offer.

And, and both of those words suggest luxuries. [00:41:00] Okay. Uh, now we're going to go to, uh, let's go to verse, the cry is in verse 10. Alas, alas, oh my gosh, the merchant city's fallen. This is the ultimate stock market crash. This is the big one. Okay. This is what makes 1929 look like nothing. So 11. The merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her, for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore.

Probably for two reasons. One, they can't afford it. The bottom's out of it. And two, they realize that I don't need delicate dainties. Dainties is the last word. We're going to come to that one here. That's in verse 14. There it is. Delicate, delicious. Dainties. Wow. And now he gives us a list, and it's a sarcastic list.

When you want to be sarcastic, you put and between everything in the list. You did this, and this, and this, and this.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I like how you've worded that for 12 and 13, because there's so many ands right there. That's what they're doing.

Michael Wilcox: Yes. [00:42:00] It's a literary device. So no one buys their merchandise anymore, and you would read it with a tone of eventual exasperation.

The merchandise of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet and all tying wood and all manner vessels of ivory and all manner vessels of most precious wood and of brass and iron and marble and cinnamon and odors and ointments and frankincense and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and beef and sheep and cell phones and Big screen TVs and fancy cars and big houses and you know, we would do our own list Yes And then he nails the list this is one of the most powerful moments in John and beasts and sheep and horses and chariots horses and chariots is a image of war and then he hit and slaves and the souls of men now the list suggests that You can buy anything in this world with money.

You [00:43:00] can sell the soul. You can buy the The sad thing is, who's the only person that can sell the soul? You are the only one who can sell your soul. Yeah. But that list says everything is for sale in the great merchant city. Fourteen, the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

That's my last D. John is, Revelation is warning us about getting caught up in, in shopping too much in the merchant city for the delicate, delicious dainties because there is no end to them. There isn't. I just, I loved what, uh, was in conference this time. I don't remember who said it, but I think it was quoting a story by, President Eyring about tithing and the power of tithing.

I had never thought of it. It was just so well President Eyring said that you, [00:44:00] the payment of a full honest tithe diminishes your appetite for, in Revelation's words, the delicate, delicious dainties. It diminishes your tithes and offerings.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: You, you begin to live outside Of yourself

Michael Wilcox: and within your means and within your means and you want to do better things with it And then he gets this kind of drum roll the dirge I call it the dirge the Funeral March of Babylon the heart of the unholy Trinity are going down now They're not gonna rule men anymore by power by falsehood by wealth that repeated phrase No more at all Uh, end of verse 21, uh, shall be found no more at all, Babylon, and the voice of harpers and musicians and pipers and drummers shall be heard no more at all in thee.

And no [00:45:00] craftsman of whatever craft he be shall be found any more in thee. And the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee. And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee. And the voice of the bridegroom and the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee. This. This, the busyness of the world.

Can you hear the busyness of the merchants there, the city, but you're buying and selling in the crowds and you can, well, I'm going to get that. And I think, and all of a sudden the noise, this is good symbolic writing. The noise dies down into silence. And then he says, Thy merchants were the great men of the earth.

For by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Things will give you happiness. Spend your life going after the delicate, delicious dainties. That's where happiness is. And John is saying, No, that's a sorcery. That's a [00:46:00] sorcery. And we're going to see as we go to chapter 19, instead of, some people when the merchant city goes down, cries, Alas, alas.

Yeah, but we'll see in 19 others cry. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. It's a different That's kind of what I do with 18. Oh, and we don't want to you know we're not against people having nice cars and decent homes and wearing good clothes, but there is a There's no end to it. And once you start shopping in the Merchant City, it is just so hard to get out of it.

That's why I was so taken by it, thinking of this, by that, uh, that talk, um, Payment of Tithes Helps Us Reduce Our Desires for the Delica Delicious Dainties. That, that's kind of what I, what I do in there.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like that so much, Michael. And let's do this. Go to verse 16, and I want [00:47:00] everyone to highlight where it says, alas, alas, highlight that, and then go to chapter 19.

Michael Wilcox: It's also 19, alas, alas.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes. And we're going to do, yes, alas, alas, highlight that. And then you're going to want to draw a line and connect it to chapter 19, verse one, where the word is alleluia.

Michael Wilcox: Yeah. And verse three. And verse six, you're going to get it

Tammy Uzelac Hall: again. Connected to Alleluia. And in the next segment, we are going to talk about that Alleluia and how it's connected to a supper.

I love a good supper. Talk about that next.

Segment 4

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Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, everyone who knows me knows I love a good supper, especially if there's cheese. So I was intrigued when we get to Revelation 19 because it talks about a big supper, a major supper. And so why don't you teach us a little bit, Michael, about this supper in the book of Revelation and what it has to do with the bride.

Michael Wilcox: [00:48:00] Okay, I'm going to just make one comment about the dainties. Oh, yes. I always like to add, and I didn't, I think it's okay, everybody gets one or two dainties. It's okay. Oh, good. Let's not, let's not be full of guilt that we shop occasionally in the merchant city. God gives you one, it's just you can't have all of them.

So pick your dainty and say, okay, this Lord is my dainty. Okay, I'll let you have, have that.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think that's great. What's my dainty now? I'm going to be thinking about that for a while.

Michael Wilcox: There you go. Figure out what your dainty is and then you, then you get it. Well, the, the, the sadness is all over. I mean, in terms of the negative imagery, the.

The powerful, the, the darker imagery, the locusts and the four horsemen and the, the unholy trinity, what I call, it's kind of over. We get one last one, uh, the, the opposite of the supper. 'cause there's two [00:49:00] suppers in chapter 19. Yes. Okay. But, uh, we're gonna replace it all now. Uh, we, we are the last pages of the book.

Uh, we're at the last of the last seal where we're going to have things better. And so it begins with the opposite of alas, alas, as we talked about, it begins with hallelujah. You see that in 19 one, uh, you see it again in verse three and you see it in verse four. Four, and you see it in verse six. Uh, the rejoicing, um, the negative rule of man, whether it's, uh, the economic, the religious, or the political military that has caused such.

The ill use of power, any of those three powers, um, is, is gone. I, I, I think, uh, [00:50:00] if somebody wants power, actually there's a Hindu religious text that teaches this. Oh, really? If somebody wants power, they should never have it. And if somebody has power and can't give it up. They should never have had it in the first place.

Like that. So you see that in the harlot, the merchant city, the beast, different kinds of power. Well, they're gone. We're going to replace them. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. That's what we say. Hallelujah. We say hallelujah. The misuse of power is gone. Christ won't misuse it. Right. So verse 7, Let us be glad. We say, Oh.

Yeah, it's been kind of, uh, intense here, John. So let us be glad, and rejoice, and give honor to him, for the marriage of the Lamb is come. And I, [00:51:00] I love this image. And his wife hath made herself ready. I love this too. You think of anybody, you know, I think of the marriages I've gone to, what, what the bride does.

The bride, you know, I think of Laurie, you know, the day I married Laurie was the best day of my life. That was the best day of my life and Laurie was created on Sunday morning, you know, God woke up Sunday morning He just felt so good that he had to create a few other things He created cinnamon on Sunday morning and Antarctica and southern Utah's Red Rocks And he created Laurie Chipman on Sunday morning and the day I married her Um, I can't imagine a woman being more beautiful.

She had made herself ready. The dress, the hair, the, everything. Um, to her [00:52:00] was grand, John's going to tell us what is the beauty of the bride. And we're his bride, we're the, we're the, we're the bride, we're also the guests of the wedding. To her was granted that she should be arrayed. I love that word, arrayed.

You're gonna get, uh, the word adorned in chapter 21 verse 2 when he talks about she's adorned as a bride, a bride adorned for her husband. The bride wants to be beautiful for the husband. She was arrayed in fine linen, clean and white, and then he tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

So if I just stop there for for a second

There's a beautiful line [00:53:00] in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice. Shakespeare was pretty good at love. And Portia is going to marry Bassanio. She loves him. And Bassanio has to choose the right The chest that her picture's in, and it's a little test her father sets up. Anyway, uh, he, she gives him hints so he'll pick the right one because she wants him.

She loves him and he loves her. The bride loves the bridegroom. Uh, the bridegroom loves the bride. And he Picks the right one, and he sees her picture, and then he turns, and there she's standing. And Portia says, You see me, Lord Bassanio, where I stand, such as I am. I would not be ambitious in my wish to be better.

Okay? I'm paraphrasing a little [00:54:00] bit. Yet for you, I would be troubled twenty times myself, a thousand times I'm happy. I don't need to be prettier. She's saying I don't need to be wealthier. She's wealthy. I don't need to be More than I am. I'm happy with where I am. Yeah, but for you I would be troubled 20 times myself.

A thousand times more fair. And I don't think of anybody who gets that, um, captures the spirit of verses 7 and 8 in Revelation 19 quite like that moment in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice. Because you and I as, now as the bride, arrayed in our righteousness, our obedience, our service, our Our character traits of kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, goodness.[00:55:00]

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Which adds to the, I'm just thinking right now, made herself ready. It's so, I mean it's a lot of work to get ready for a wedding. It is. It's even more work. to spiritually be ready for that wedding and to be where you want to be so you can enter the house of the Lord. It makes me emotional because I'm thinking right now, I mean, will I be ready?

Have I made myself ready? Will I be arrayed in fine linen? I mean, that's, it is to be able to stand and say, right. Yeah. I made myself ready.

Michael Wilcox: Okay. Let's eat. And, and you enjoy, you enjoy the wedding, the unity, the oneness. I mean, you're, you're, the husband is Jesus. Yeah. I love this. He's the spouse. It's beautiful.

And so we might say, I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I'm not a bad person. Yet for Jesus, for my Father in heaven. You and I would say we would be troubled 20 [00:56:00] times ourselves. A thousand times more kind, more honest, more obedient, more trusting, more loving. We sing, uh, that's one of my favorite hymns, more savior like thee.

Yeah. Uh, for him, uh, we would be beautiful, arrayed, adorned. Righteousness and goodness. There's only one image in the whole book of Revelation. I like more than this one. What, what? Well, we'll get to it. Oh, okay.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So tell us about the marriage supper then.

Michael Wilcox: So now, so in the, in verse seven and eight we are the We're the bride.

Mm hmm. Okay, when you get to verse 9, you can do this in symbolic writing. You don't have to stick with your left brain. You can shift symbols and it's like a kaleidoscope and you just move things around. So all of a sudden I'm not the bride. I'm a guest. I'm invited to the wedding. He saith unto me, Write, [00:57:00] blessed are they which are called Unto the marriage supper of the Lamb, and he saith unto me, these are the true sayings of God.

So, uh, what is the marriage supper? You know, in Eastern Orthodoxy, that is a big, big thing. When they take the sacrament, They are not looking back to the sacrifice of Christ so much. They're looking forward to the marriage supper. Oh, wow. Um, so I do that. Sometimes I put my Eastern Orthodox mind on when I take the sacrament and I say, I'm partaking of this.

To remind me one day, I'll be invited to the marriage supper. That's section 27 of the Doctrine and Covenants. That's a very orthodox section, where we're all invited to partake of the sacrament with Jesus, with the supper. Now, the supper is more than the sacrament. I, I, I kind of got off track there. But, what are you going to feast on, [00:58:00] and who's serving it?

Well, I think we feast on truth. on love, uh, on fellowship, on goodness, but, but mostly truth and love. And if we go to Luke 12, we get this wonderful, out of Jesus's own mouth, who's the server. So now Jesus at the supper, he's not just the bridegroom, he now becomes The server of the dinner. So I go to Luke 12, and he says, verse 35, Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning.

And we get the ten virgins thing there. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their Lord, when He will return from the wedding, that when He cometh and knocketh, they may open unto Him immediately. You open the door immediately when [00:59:00] somebody knocks. That's an image out of Revelation. You would have talked about that earlier.

I stand at the door and knock, and in that image, he also calls. He doesn't just knock early in Revelation, he calls. So I go home and I knock on the door, you know, and I, and I would say, uh, it's locked. And my wife would say, who is it? And I would say. It's me. Well, that's a crazy way to answer that question.

The only reason, and she opens the door every time. Why? She knows your voice. She knows my voice. Yeah, okay. She'll ask for the voice of my husband. Okay, so when he comes we say, oh, that's the voice of my Lord. I've been listening to his voice since I was a little boy. I know that voice. And I open it, and he says, when I knock at his door, oh, that's Michael.

He's been talking to me since. I know that voice, and he opens for me. Blessed are those servants whom the Lord, when he cometh, shall find watching. Verily I [01:00:00] say unto you, that he shall gird himself. Who's he? He's the Lord. And make them, who's them? The servants, who have been watching and waiting, sit down to meet, and will come forth and serve them.

The divine humility in that image of the supper. He is the bridegroom. But he's also serving the people who come. So, if I try to make that, if you could ask the Lord anything, you know, here he comes with his men, and he's going to take down your order. Yeah. You get the order of truth, whatever you get. What question, if you could ask him one or two questions, what questions would you ask him?

Well, maybe when I was littler, I'd ask him about the dinosaurs. I don't know what question, maybe some incident in your life, but at the wedding supper you, you feast on his love, you feast on truth, and, [01:01:00] and right now, you know, truly, I would say, Lord, could you just tell me another story of your life that didn't make the Gospels?

I just wanted, I love that song, Tell Me the Stories of Jesus. Just Could you just for my supper just tell me another parable that we didn't get something else you did I don't know what you would order at the wedding supper But order you feast on his love on his truth and everybody's invited Everybody's invited.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: You remind me of when, when you go to a restaurant, and it's a new place you've never been. One of the questions my friend likes to always ask is, What's the best thing on the menu? What's something I've never tried? I imagine you saying that. What's, what's something I've never tried on here that you think I'm gonna love?[01:02:00]

And that's you asking for the stories we've never heard.

Michael Wilcox: Yeah, I'll just trust him to serve me what he needs.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, like, I trust you. Oh, what a beautiful way to look about the idea of this marriage supper of the Lamb. That was beautiful, Michael. Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. It gave us a lot to think about with Revelation 19 and that He will serve us.

Michael Wilcox: Yeah. Wow. It's just beautiful imagery.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: It just makes sense

Michael Wilcox: that he would do that. And then you compare, we won't go there because it's a little bit of a downer, then you compare it to the other supper in chapter 19 and that goes back to Armageddon where,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: those are verses 17 and 18 if you want to mark that.

Michael Wilcox: You are dinner in that scene. Yeah, you are the dinner, the supper of the great God. Supper of the great God. Yeah. Oh, that's good. So by contrast, Mm hmm. John's, The Revelation is a very easy book to understand in this element, in the choices it's giving you. It's very obvious. What do you, which mark are you going to choose?

Which bride? Which city? Which harvest? Which feast? You [01:03:00] choose. Yes. You're going to go into the kingdom of the dragon or the kingdom of the lamb. You, you make the choice and John's trying to say I'm doing everything I can to try and get you to choose to make the right choice. You want to be at the supper, okay?

That's where you want to be.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. Okay. Well then let's do this in the next segment. And we're going to talk about those who choose to be at the supper, the supper of the Lamb. And we'll do that in Revelation 20.

Segment 5

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Tammy Uzelac Hall: We are in Revelation chapter 20, we're going to do 20 Michael, you call chapter 20 something unique. I like this and I wrote it in my scriptures. What do you think chapter 20 is?

Michael Wilcox: Um, what did I say that was unique? An interlude. Oh, an interlude. Oh, okay. I love it. What word did I, did I use here?

Tammy Uzelac Hall: You told me, you're like, 20's like an interlude, and I wrote that, I'm like, oh, that's so fascinating.

Why is it like an interlude?

Michael Wilcox: It's a little bit, I mean, it, it, it goes to the millennium. Okay. Yep. It does. [01:04:00] The, the sealing of Satan and you, and you have, again, you're looking for key words. He's the, the key to the bottomless pit, and I'm going to lock him in. Uh, a great chain, I'm going to chain him, that's ironic because, uh, it's often Lucifer's projected, like in Moses 7, having a great chain that he can, well now the, the chainer is going to be chained.

And, uh, you're going to set in three a seal upon him, so he's, he's gone. And, uh, what is it that really, who has the key and the chain and the seal? Uh, there's an angel in 20, but I like Nephi's account of that really well in 1 Nephi 22. Verse 26, when he speaks of this, this time, because of the righteousness of his people, Satan has no power.

It's not some, some, uh, heavenly imposed, [01:05:00] uh, locking up. It's the people wherefore he cannot be loose for the space of many years. I think a thousand years is probably a figurative expression for a long time. I agree. That's what I think. Uh, He hath no power over the hearts of the people, for they dwell in righteousness, and the Holy One of Israel reigneth.

So it's the righteousness of the people, um, that create what we would call the millennial reign of peace and goodness. We chain Him by the righteousness, um, nobody's listening to Him anymore, must be infuriating to Him.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, it must. And, and going back to what we talked about in the last segment. because we chose to attend the marriage supper of the lamb.

I mean, that's right. How righteous we will be. We did make ourself ready and look what the, what power we have because we made ourselves ready. We could bind Satan. We can, we can. Wow.

Michael Wilcox: Okay. So he's bound. He's loosed the same way because in chapter 20 is also loosed [01:06:00] and all the, the Problems of ill use of power, the unholy train, everything comes back again for a short season for a little while.

And if somebody wanted to know how he's loosed, you read 4th Nephi. I would just read 4th Nephi. You want to know how that reign of peace is going to end? 4th Nephi covers it perfectly, exactly.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm so glad you brought that up because So maybe people listening go, well, give me a break. Are we ever going to be that righteous?

There's no way that could happen. Jesus is going to have to do something. But again, third Nephi is a great example. It did happen. People were that righteous throughout fourth Nephi for a long time. It wasn't just a year or two.

Michael Wilcox: Yeah. There were a number of generations.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm so glad you brought up fourth Nephi.

It can be done. It has been done. And then unfortunately it gets undone.

Michael Wilcox: It gets undone and that's chapter 20. Yep. Uh, and then there's the final judgment and then he goes back to the bride. Okay. Let's go back to the bride in chapter 21 Um, the Holy City, [01:07:00] we saw earlier on the negative side that the harlot and the city kind of morph into one.

They, they, we were talking about the future is always in motion. I think of a line from Star Wars where, where Yoda says to Luke Skywalker when he's, he's beginning to see the future a little bit and he wants to know about it. And, and Yoda says, uh, difficult to see, you know, the future, the future always in motion.

And that's revelation, it's just always in motion, it's moving back, and so to try and put too much of a chronological order in these things is probably not a wise thing to do. You're just working with the imagery. Anyway, chapter 21, now we see the holy city, the world is going to be that. Crystal sphere of purity and goodness with the righteous standing on it that in 15 he promised us.

[01:08:00] Okay, so chapter 21 verse 2 I John saw the Holy City New Jerusalem Coming down from God out of heaven again the image prepared as a bride adorned for her husband So sweet. Yeah, again, I like arrayed, adorned, it's the beauty in it and it's righteousness. Only this is the permanent one, no more little interlude of evil where Saint gets his last little licks on us.

I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, behold, the tabernacle of God is with men and he will dwell with them and they shall be his people and God himself shall be with them and be their God. And then for me, the most beautiful. Image of revelation and I love the bride image in her wedding dress But this is this one has special meaning to me and God shall wipe away all tears from their [01:09:00] eyes And there shall be no more death neither sorrow nor crying Neither shall there be any more pain for the former things

And he that sat upon the throne, meaning the father, saith, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write, you, you write that promise, write, for these words are true and faithful. These all of us in our lives, if we want to get kind of the power of that verse. four and then we're going to link it to verse six.

We've all seen a lot of tears. We cry a lot of tears. Uh, when I was a bishop, you know, I just figured any, on any given Sunday I was going to see tears. I always had Kleenex in my pocket because I knew I was going to see tears. Uh, we all see tears. Different [01:10:00] kinds of tears. People cry for husbands over the death of their wives, wives over the inactivities of their husbands, parents over the choices of their children, children over the choices of their parents, tears in confession and regret, tears of physical pain.

There's just a lot of reasons that people might shed tears. And sometimes I can get a little bit discouraged in that I can't wipe them away. You can listen, you can empathize, like Job's friends before they open their mouths. You can sit with them and grieve with them, but sometimes you don't. There's been so many times in my life I've just thought, I can't wipe them away.

And that's a sweet image anyway. He doesn't say, I'm going to hand you a Kleenex. He says, I'm going to wipe them [01:11:00] away. And about the only person I can imagine that I would feel comfortable and they would feel comfortable in me taking my thumb and, and, you know, kind of gently swiping it across the cheek would be a husband for his wife, a wife for a parent for a child.

It's a very intimate. image of wiping away tears. There's this such a, there's an intimacy in that. It's the same intimacy you get when the Savior says, touch the tokens of my atonement. And the first one he invites you to touch is the side. Now, if you can, if you can imagine putting your hand, not inside the womb, but in between the robe and, and laying your hand right there next to his heart, you know, it's a deeply.

intimate, intimate sign, and the wiping of tears is an intimate, intimate thing. Um, my favorite words of all the words maybe [01:12:00] that Jesus ever spoke were from the cross when he said, it is finished. And I think that that means a lot of things. Uh, his father's will, it means a lot of things, but one thing it means to me is that his pain was finished.

His suffering was finished. And if Jesus could say of his suffering, it is finished. Then what does that mean for all of us? Whatever our reason for tears, pain, crying, death, sorrow, the time will come and we're all going to be able to say, It is finished. And it will be finished. It will be over. Uh, the last pages of the book that he is revealing to us end in hope.

And this is the highest of all the hopes that I can, I can see. And he, you get an echo of it is finished in the sixth verse. When he said unto me, it is done. Now I know it is done meaning I wrote it. [01:13:00] You want me to write that promise that I'm gonna wipe away tears. And there's not going to be death, sorrow, crying, pain.

Uh, I wrote them and, and Christ is saying to the father, I know that's your desire for your children, father. I know that's what you want. They can cry tears of joy, but no more tears of sorrow. I know that's what you want. I've read the last page of the book. I know where you want me to get your children and I'm going to get them there.

And I'm going to wipe the tears away. It's going to be finished. It's going to be done. And what I said of my suffering, they're gonna say of theirs. And then he gives me his, my favorite of all the I ams. You know, he has a lot of I ams. Yeah. Yeah. I am the way, the truth, the light. I, I am the, the mm-Hmm. , the [01:14:00] Rock.

I'm the Good Shepherd. I'm, but my favorite one is. I am the beginning and the end. Alpha and omega. Only I edited it. If God will forgive me, uh, maybe, uh, you probably don't do it. I'm probably the only sinful person that ever says, Lord, I need to, I could edit this verse for you and make it a little better.

How would you do that? If I were going to edit this, I would flip them around. And I would have Jesus say, I am the end. And the beginning. And then I say to him, what are you the end of? You know, Paul says he's the author and finisher. That's one of his I am's. I am the finisher. Of your faith? Uh, I am the end of the beginning.

And so I say, Jesus, what are you the end of? And I take that six verse back up to verse four. You bet the verse I love. And I would hear him say, I am the end of [01:15:00] tears. I am the end of death. I am the end of sorrow. I am the end of crying. I am the end of pain. And then we say, what are you the beginning of?

And he would say, I am the beginning of life. I am the beginning of peace. I am the beginning of joy. I am the beginning of Mercy, forgiveness, I'm the ending of all the negatives and dark things you've seen in Revelation and all the way through back to Genesis. Right. I'm the end of every, every, this whole story of life.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's over.

Michael Wilcox: It's done. I'm the end. Yeah. And I'm the beginning of life. All the, I mean, the beginning of beauty and joy. And you know, this is Christmas time. And the one time of year we feel [01:16:00] what Jesus came for is this time of year. There's, it's in the air we breathe it. It's the joy of Jesus. The celebratory nature of, of why he came and how he wants us, us to feel.

So, uh, I'm going to wipe away all the tears and then he says now the bride turns into the city in this Always in motion is the future, you know and this kaleidoscope of images that can blend into one another so In verse 9, he says, Come hither, I'll show you the bride, the Lamb's wife. Only now it's a city.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city. You know, what was once, earlier in Revelation, Babylon was called that great city. Right. And the question was, what city is [01:17:00] like under Babylon? When they say, Alas, alas, it's fallen. What city is like that great city?

Well, you and I would answer, well, we have a city that's, it's Zion in the new Jerusalem. That city is better than the great city. Here's the great city. Okay. It's not New York or Paris or London. Okay. It's, it's Zion. It's the great city of the new Jerusalem. Descending from heaven from God. And then, you know, all the descriptions of it have to do with.

Purity, uh, precious. In verse 11, it's clear as crystal. There's our world, only now it's a city. The sea of glass has become a city. Okay. Uh, you get crystal. There are 12 gates to it within 12 tribes of Israel on it. That's reminiscent of how they camped as they traveled in the wilderness, three tribes on each side.

You, you get into the city through The house of Israel, your patriarchal blessing, [01:18:00] in a sense, is your passport into the city. Oh, I like that. In a sense, it is. You, you, you, you, you're keeping your covenants. You go through the gates through the house of Israel. And the walls are the apostles, the foundations of the walls, the big stones that hold up.

You get the image of the apostles as protectors. Uh, callings in, in verse 14, the names of the 12 apostles, 12 gates, 12 tribes of Israel, 12 foundation stones, the foundation layers that the rest of the wall's built on. And then it's four squares, its length and breadth and height are equal at 60. It's a cube.

And you would say, well, I know how long a city is and I know how wide a city is, but how high is a city? Well, cities, we don't measure cities in height. No. But this city we do because it's perfect. And, and, and the cube or squares or things squared [01:19:00] suggests perfection. So everything here is suggesting. I like that perfection and purity.

Verse 18, you get, uh. The city was pure gold, light clear glass. Foundations were garnished with precious stones. That's beautiful. He gives us all this. Verse 21, the gates are pearl. This is where we get the expression pearly gates. The pearly gates comes from Revelation. And the street of the city was pure gold, as it were, transparent glass.

So all of the imagery here, pearl, crystal glass, stones, gold, these are things that don't tarnish, rust, disappear. It's the eternal nature. And they're also all things that suggest purity. There's no temple in it because it is a temple. You don't need a temple in it. The whole city is a temple and Christ is it's light and [01:20:00] The gates are never that's a beautiful image.

The gates are not shut in verse 25. Why? There's no night. Usually you shut the gates of the ancient city at night for protection. Well, I don't need to shut the gates There aren't gates in it, there aren't swinging gates. They're just open. Yep. Because number one, everybody's invited into it. And I'm not afraid of anything.

It's, it's beautiful. There's nothing out there that's going, it's amazing. That I need to be afraid of. So it's just a beautiful, hope filled Love it chapter.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: And I want to, I wanna live in that city.

Michael Wilcox: We wanna, we wanna be at the supper. We want to put the bread, the dress on, uh, we want to, uh, we want to be in the city, you know, we, we want to feast, we want to feast.

I get to ask him to tell me a story I never knew, you know. Revelation is, is a beautiful, beautiful book in [01:21:00] its imagery. Um, it's, it's so hope filled. It's an appropriate ending for the Bible. And we're going to see that the last chapter also ends really, really beautifully.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. So we'll do that next.

Segment 6

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Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right. So I just want to start out this segment by saying, Michael, I fully 100 percent support your interpretation or reinterpretation of chapter 21, verse six. I am the end and the beginning. I just want us to get that out of the way right there. Oh, okay. We're both, we're both committing sin. Yeah, we can.

If Heavenly Father doesn't like that, we just redid that. That's the coolest thing I've ever heard. I am the end and the beginning. Yeah. Bye. That's beautiful. So here we are then. We are now at the end of the book of Revelation and quite honestly a beginning. I think that's what it does for us. It's so hope filled.

So talk us through the very last chapter of the book of Revelation. Chapter 22.

Michael Wilcox: Yeah, we're at the, we're at the, we're at the [01:22:00] end of the Bible. End of the bible. This is it. The end of the New Testament study. Everyone could probably take a breath here.

We did it. As CSS Lewis, uh, ends the Chronicles in Narnia, um, with, uh, a book, you know, uh, the chapter, uh, where every chapter is better than the last

And, and I just like that idea. Every chapter is going to be better than last. We go on in into eternity, you know, it's just, I'm writing that down. It just gets better and better. So chapter 22, we have one last magnificent image that's drawing out of the Old Testament. One of the notches on the key that opens the book of Revelation to understanding is to catch the Old Testament allusions.

Because, uh, it's, there's allusions. everywhere. You know, we've done a few, but he's alluding to things all the time. If I had to pick one of [01:23:00] my, probably my favorite image in the Old Testament, it would be Ezekiel 47. And just briefly, Ezekiel 47 is talking about the temple. You know, Ezekiel, the temple is destroyed by the Babylonians.

The temple that will be built in Jerusalem is going to be rebuilt. He sees it in vision. And out of the east doors of the temple, a spring of water bubbles up. This is my favorite image of the temple. You probably heard me talk about this. Please, I love it. I love this image. Right at the door of the temple, a spring of water bubbles up and it flows eastward into the Kidron Valley and then down into the Judean wilderness, which is as dead a desert as you'll find almost anywhere.

It's just a dry, rocky, dead place, and then it empties into the Dead Sea. And there's no body of water deader than the Dead Sea. Yeah. But [01:24:00] as the water flows from the temple down through the wilderness, life springs up everywhere. And there's fruit trees, and the river splits, and it becomes rivers, and it gives life to the desert.

And that empties into the Dead Sea, and the Dead Sea, um, is healed, is the word, it's healed. And Ezekiel sees fishermen all around the borders of the lake, of the Dead Sea, fishing and sorting their catches. Now you've been to the Dead Sea, you've seen it, and you've seen the Judean Wilderness. Oh, it's, yes.

The idea that that Judean Wilderness would be a swath of green with fruit. And that fishermen would be all around the shores of the Dead Sea fishing and drying their nets and sorting their catches. I mean, that's miraculous. And it tells you the power, the life giving, healing power of the [01:25:00] temple. Because in a spiritual sense, every temple Has a river flowing out of it that that does two things for everyone everything it touches it gives life and it heals It gives life and it heals Beautiful image and Ezekiel is then invited to walk down and he wades in a few times and each time he wades in it Gets deeper first ankle then knee then waist and it's over his head and it's waters to swim in so That's the image I love to apply it to our temples.

What is it that flows out of the temples? It's a water of truth and joy and love and beauty and people. Uh, power that's flowing out and it gives life and it heals everything. So, John takes that full blown image in Ezekiel and you have it [01:26:00] repeated here in Revelation 22. Oh, wow. So, in verse 1, he showed me, I'm going right into the center of the city now, okay?

I'm past the gates, past the walls. I'm going right into the center of the city. And right into the center of the city, he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In a sense, he's bringing this again out of Ezekiel 47, a temple on earth is a reminder of the throne of God.

And out of the throne of God, a river of love and life. And light and truth and healing flows. So right in the center of the city is the river flowing from the throne. On earth it flows from the temple, but in the city it flows from the throne of God. And remember earlier, we were invited to sit on that [01:27:00] throne with right in the midst of the street of it.

And on either side of the river was there the tree of life, which bear 12 manner of fruits, meaning there every month, there's not a season, it's always bearing fruit. And again, this is coming out of Ezekiel and yielded her fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Just as in Ezekiel, the river and the trees give life and they heal. They heal.

Nephi tells us that the tree of life is the love of God and the water of life is the love of God. So now in the city, we get to, in Ezekiel's terms, immerse ourselves in [01:28:00] God's love. Swim in it. Swim in God's love, in His light, His truth. It's just again, such a hope filled, beautiful thing where we say, I want to be at the supper.

I want to wear the wedding dress. You know, I, I, I want to drink from the river. I want to swim in the river. I want to eat from the trees that are there in the middle of it. And, and I, I want to live as John's revelation is encouraging us to live a life so we can swim in that river. And just like in Ezekiel, it gets deeper the more you walk down it.

Just like in C. S. Lewis's. And to the Chronicles in Narnia, every chapter is better. It just gets deeper and deeper and deeper. There's no bottom to the love of it. There's no end to where the river flows. And verse four, again, a beautiful image. They shall see [01:29:00] his face, uh, the father and the son. You can put either one in there.

Okay, I think it's, uh, they shall see his face and his name shall be in their foreheads. Meaning, this child is mine, okay, my name is there. In the Book of Mormon's terminology, his image is engraven in your countenance. You put your name on something that you own. Well, in the temple, you consecrate yourself to him.

Yeah. You give yourself to him. So it's very, very natural that he would put his name on what is his. Yep. And you see this name all through, uh, Revelation, this idea of new name and, and wearing the name and having the name of the city on you. Um, we belong to him. Um, they'll see his face and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Almost, almost has a mirror image there. You know, I see God's face in my own.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I just love verse five. [01:30:00]

Michael Wilcox: Yeah, and there shall be no night there, and they need no candle, neither light of the sun, for the Lord God giveth them light, and they shall reign forever and ever. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, revelation. The Bible, the whole Bible is ending good.

So now I come to, uh, you know, he says in verse 12, I come quickly. Um, I don't think that means soon. I think it means unexpectedly, suddenly, and then I, he gives us his title again. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. And again, I. The end and the beginning. I don't mind beginning and the end, but I just like to flip it around.

Uh, be and the beginning, the end. The first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city. Now, if we, uh, I mean if I were editing this, I would just, I would just take verse 15 right [01:31:00] out . Okay. That's why I say sometimes I like to add it because it breaks the beauty of the flow of it.

But you know, I can understand John, uh, getting one last dig in at the, at the way the world used to be. Okay? Now, how does Revelation end? Well, it ends in a prayer. How does the Bible end? It ends in a prayer. If I have understood Revelation, if I've understood this book, I've seen the four horsemen, the world of conquest and famine and disease and war.

I've seen the locusts rising out of the smoke of hell of hatred. I, I've I'm acquainted with the misuse of power by the unholy trinity. I've seen the Armageddons and the supper of the, uh, and the harvest of the grapes of wrath. Uh, [01:32:00] I've, if I've, but I've also seen the bride and the city and, and the sea of glass and, and the The river flowing out.

I, I've seen the two kingdoms. Yeah. What is the most logical prayer for somebody who's read Revelation 2 to do? You fall on your knees and you give a one word prayer. And that one word prayer is come. It's the most logical. It's what we want. We want him to come open that last, just like when he took the book out of the father's hand, we all erupted into joy and song because we knew.

knew that the end of the book would be the way God wanted it to be. Father Jesus says, I'll make sure that the ending is the way you want it to be and your children will be happy and we'll wipe away the tears and they'll be with us for eternity where every [01:33:00] chapter is better than the last. And so we all pray in verse 17, the spirit and the bride.

Well, I'm the bride. And I have the Spirit say one word prayer, come. It's nice, the echoing of what does Jesus say to us? Well, it's our whole title for our Sunday school, you know, come follow me. We say come. Jesus says come. You know, love is always a two way thing. The bridegroom says to the bride, but the bride also says to the bridegroom, come, you know.

And maybe I, Getting too personal, but you know, I, one day I'm going to see my bride again. I'm going to see Laurie and, uh, I hope she'll hold her [01:34:00] hand out and say, come, because I know I'll hold my arms out and say. And so there's a, there's a, a dual invitation there. Jesus and the Father say to you and I, come, come to me.

And we say also, and, and, and there's a meeting in the middle, you know. We say to him, come. And let him that hear us say, anybody who's understood Revelation, anybody who's understood the whole Bible, anybody who's understood the history of the world, its pains, its hopes, its joys, anyone who understands Jesus, we're all going to say, Come, and let him that is thirsty.

You can ask, what are you thirst for? You thirst for love, you thirst for happiness, you thirst for truth. Whatever you thirst for, come, and let him that is thirst come, and [01:35:00] whosoever will, let them take of the water of life. Freeing, of course, the water of life generally is love.

Now he has this little, uh, little takeaway, you know, so the don't add or take and, and, and, and, Oh yeah. Give us that. Oh my gosh. We, we, we love to just say, we met, we, we break the beauty of the Indian revelation. Again, if I were adding it, I'd put it up earlier. Right. Okay. I'd pull verse 18. And there's 19 out and I, so let's stick them up a little bit for, let's just go from verse 17, um, right into verse 20.

I agree. That's how I, that's how I would do it. I would, that, my editing soul. Let's just do that. So anyway, I, I think what he's saying here is this is a book where, because it's so symbolic, You can make the symbols mean more than they mean. And you can read into things that really aren't [01:36:00] there. Now you are adding.

Yeah. And you can also not see what they mean. You can make them less than they mean. Um, and now you're diminishing. from them. Uh, it's, it's a verse designed not for the whole Bible, though you can apply it to the whole Bible, as long as you don't say, well, there's not going to be, God's never going to talk to his children anymore.

Right. That's not what that verse means. That's not what that verse means. And the word book means revelation. It means the book of revelation. Yeah. And it's obvious because he says, God will add to him the plagues. Well, we saw. Frogs and hail and darkness and we saw the plagues of it. So yeah, obviously it's referring to the book of Revelation So after that little warning, okay, please when you read this Don't make the symbols mean more than they do don't read into it.

What's not there, but don't miss things. Okay either Um, that's a [01:37:00] pretty good warning. And then we go to verse 20, we're back, we're back. I've added to that, I stuck that up earlier, and I come back to the mutual invitations of coming. Yes. He which testifies these things saith, now God himself is testifying, Jesus is the one who's testifying that these things are true.

He which testifies these things saith, surely I come quickly. You want me to come. I will come. I will come. Surely I come quickly. Again, not soon, but unexpectedly. Okay, I will, but I will come. I come quickly. Amen. And then John and all of us, all of us would say in our own way, in our own words, even so, come Lord Jesus.

That's John's personal little, he just, [01:38:00] even so, come Lord Jesus. And we want to make that personal our own life. Michael Wilcox says, Even so, come Lord Jesus. Until he comes, until he comes to wipe the tears away and bring the city with the river and the trees and the supper. Until he comes, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Be with you all until he comes you trust on his grace and Everything that that word can mean to us, you know, it's a lovely word And you know, we could spend a whole hour just talking about what you can pull out of that one word until he comes May the grace, His grace, will hold you, will take care of you, will watch over you, will forgive you, will give you hope, will uphold you, [01:39:00] will see you through your trials, will get you past all the unholy trinity and the four horsemen and everything.

His grace will be with you. And the Bible ends. And Revelation ends and, uh, it's a, it's a wonderful book. I love Revelation.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love it even more now that I got to spend this time with you, Michael. Thank you. Thank you for teaching us and for bearing witness and testimony of the Bridegroom. I'm so grateful for your own connection to that word bride and bridegroom and the way you taught it to us and, um, I'm just grateful for the way this book ends and, and one of the things we've studied.

When we've studied the book of Revelation is how the name, how the word Amen is also a name for Christ. And I just can't think of a better ending than Amen. Yeah. Then hit in his name, we ended the book. [01:40:00] And so in his name, we ended this year of the New Testament. It's been such a great year. It makes me so emotional.

I can't believe we did it. I mean, I, what a great year to talk about the Amen. The amen, the author and finisher of our faith, the one who will wipe away our tears. It's just been a wonderful experience this year. So thank you to everyone who listened. Thank you to everyone who just gleaned from the scriptures and applied them to their lives.

And Michael, thank you for this time. I love the book of Revelation. Those chapters were phenomenal. So thanks friend. You're welcome. Mike, the pleasure. Always nice to Oh,

so good. Okay. So my, I mean, I got a million. Now we just got to get you to Israel. I

know. Oh, darn it. We'll get there. Oh,

next year. Michael and I, we

were supposed to go.

Next year in Jerusalem.

Next year in Jerusalem is what they say. Michael and I actually were supposed to go together seven days before the war broke out. I was devastated, not just for us, clearly, but for all of the people over there who were suffering. And [01:41:00] our prayers are for everyone on both sides. They are.

Yeah.

Prayers for everyone. So. I've been to the Middle East a lot and I have great love for everyone over there. But next

year in Israel. Next year, yeah. Join us, everyone. Come with us. Yeah. Thank you, Michael. You're welcome. Well, thank you so much for joining us this year as we have studied the New Testament.

Now, if you are not on our Facebook or Instagram accounts, go join them because we are going to post several things from this episode throughout the week, and then At the end of the week on a Saturday, we post a question from this episode, and we'd love to know your answer. We're looking forward to reading what you've learned, so comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your answer and thoughts.

You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original, and it's brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our fabulous Study Group participant was S. Michael Wilcox. And you can find more information about my friend at ldsliving. [01:42:00] com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and recorded by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week and please remember, oh, of all the episodes to remember this, that God loves you and you are his favorite.

The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.