The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.
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Tammy Uzelac Hall: [00:00:00] All right. So here's a little behind the scenes info about how this podcast is recorded. So before each episode, I write an intro and I record it before I begin any discussion with my guests. Now in the past four years, I have never needed to rerecord an intro until now. Now, why am I telling you this?
Because I recorded an intro for our discussion of the book of Revelation, and it was good. But then I listened to this episode again, right before we posted it, and the intro I had just would not do. So here's what I want to say for the intro. Buckle your seatbelts and get ready for the scripture ride of your life.
In this episode, the discussion of the book of Revelation chapters one through five is going to blow your mind. And my guest today is the only one.
Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week, and we really dig into [00:01:00] the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Usilac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, we want to make sure you know how to use this podcast.
So follow the link in our description, and it's going to explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study, just like my friends. Oh, and I've got some good ones. Laura de la Rosa, Rosa de la Rosa, Maria Gardner, Corky Gardner, and Sarah Orocha. Hi friends, thank you so much for coming up and saying hi to me, and I love your family.
Now another awesome thing about our study group, and it's my favorite thing, is each week we're joined by two of my friends, but sometimes just one. And the one friend who is here, and I have been waiting all year for him to join us, it is Professor Don Perry. Hi Don!
Don Parry: Hi, thank you. Ah, you ready to do this?
I'm ready. What a great privilege. What an opportunity.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, and how fun. I just, I knew I wanted, it just had to be you that introduced us to this book, because I have poured over the pages in [00:02:00] your book, Understanding the Book of Revelation, you and your brother Jay. I wrote that. And again, I said earlier, anyone who wants to do a deep dive into the book of Revelation, you're going to want that book because it just beautifully explains what things mean.
Don, how long did it take you to write that book?
Don Parry: It took several years. And in the meantime, we gave several presentations at BYU Campus Education Week, and, uh, we just practiced, and it took several years to write this. Boy,
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I believe it, because it is so in depth, and it really is, in my estimation, it's the stamp on the Book of Revelation.
It's the one that I trust. It's my go to. So, thank you for, thank you and your brother for paying the price to do that. It is awesome. And we've had Don on before, but if any of you want to remember who he is, I don't know how you could forget, but you can find his bio, which is going to be found in our show notes at ldsliving.
com slash Sunday on Monday. So go check that out. All right, everyone, grab your scriptures for [00:03:00] reals this time. Grab your scriptures, something to mark your scriptures with. And let's dig in to the book of Revelation. Okay, Don, first thing right out of the gate, here's our question. We want the who, where, why, and how of this book.
Who wrote it? Where was it written? Why should we study this book, and how can we study it?
Don Parry: Let's begin with who. Okay. John. We call him John the Revelator, but John was also an apostle of the Lord. He was also a member of the First Presidency of his day, and I'm not superimposing that term upon him. This is, uh, what President John Taylor and others have taught, that Peter, James, and John were members of the First Presidency.
John was a son of Zebedee, and he was a brother of James. And you may remember that John was called a son of thunder by Jesus Christ. That's found in Mark chapter [00:04:00] 3. I think that is a compliment, a son of thunder. Why? Um. Uh, just to think of him being powerful and thunderous. It does not necessarily mean he spoke with a thunderous voice, but maybe his personality or his power was like thunder.
I don't know for sure. Uh, John is also the author of the Gospel of John. and three epistles, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John, I want to tell you that John, according to section 7 of the Doctrine and Covenants, uh, he, since he was translated subsequently, he has become, quote, as flaming fire and a ministering angel. to minister to those who shall be heirs of salvation, who dwell on the earth.
This again is a wonderful description of John as flaming fire. [00:05:00] And when we think of flaming fire, we think of glory and light. Don't think of a bonfire or a scout campfire. Think of the glory that is around this amazing person. He wrote his book while he was on the Isle of Patmos. Now, three or four years ago, I had the privilege of going to that isle, and walking where John walked, and and it's not a big island.
Uh, it's in the Mediterranean Sea. And it's just a beautiful island. I would like to be called as a missionary to the Isle of Patmos. Although they do not have missionaries there. But if they ever do, I hope I'm called as a missionary with my wife Camille. So, he's on this island. And he's in the Spirit on the Lord's day.
Now, verse one of, uh, [00:06:00] you'll want to read the Joseph Smith translation. Yes. Um, uh, along with the King James. So, the Joseph Smith translation tells us this. Verse one, the revelation of John. A servant of God. Now let me pause and tell you that John is identified four times by name in his book. That John. And then once he's called a servant of God.
So the Revelation, another note, I so appreciate you, Tammy, calling this the Book of Revelation because a lot of people call it the Book of Revelations. And it is called a Book of Revelation. So, back to verse 1, the Joseph Smith Translation, the revelation of John, a servant of God, which was given unto him of Jesus Christ to show unto his servants, and that's not just the servants in John's day, but, um, [00:07:00] all of us now, in the future, which, things which must shortly come to pass.
So this book is, um, A quintessential book about the last days in the Second Coming. It is the, uh, probably the most amazing single book or work on the last days in the Second Coming. He says that. Which must shortly come to pass. And that he sent and signified by his angel into his servant John. So there's the name John a second time.
But, uh, I just, I am so pleased to be part of this podcast and to tell people. Let me first explain, is the book of Revelation scary? Is it all about beasts and creatures and scary things? No! I, I met, uh, an individual at the BYU bookstore right after giving a [00:08:00] presentation on the Book of Revelation some years ago, and this person said, what was your presentation about?
And I said, the Book of Revelation. And this person raised, raised the hands like this, like, keep away from me. And this person said, I'm not there, I'm not there, meaning I'm not, um, uh, I, I don't even want the Book of Revelation now. Which brings me to a quote by the Prophet Joseph Smith, quote, The book of Revelation is one of the plainest books God ever caused to be written.
And just think of the word plainest. It is absolutely understandable and readable if you know a few keys of how to approach it.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so tell us then, what are some keys, what are some tips you would give to someone who maybe felt like the person you met, like, I'm not there yet, I'm not there yet, what, how would you encourage them or what could they do to get there [00:09:00] or to just maybe dip their toe in the water and start studying?
Don Parry: Let me give you three or four keys. Okay. One, one is, uh, This book is, uh, a testimony of Jesus Christ. Jesus and his atoning sacrifice is found throughout the book. There are dozens of divine names of Jesus Christ, uh, metaphors and sacred names, uh, that describe him. A lot of people would be surprised to hear, Oh, the book of Revelation is a testimony of Jesus.
Yes, it's a Jesus Christ focused book, uh, from beginning to end. And if you know that, it'll open up the pages. It'll also give you comfort knowing that Jesus is a part of, uh, as such a central part.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Don, I'd like to second that for our listeners. I. Loved studying the book of Revelation this time around and just seeing how Jesus [00:10:00] centric it is like it removed the fear for me when I took that challenge to find Jesus in all the pages and it just became the most Beautiful revelation of Jesus Christ, which we'll talk a little bit more about today But I'm gonna second what Don says it really is so focused on the Savior and I love this
Don Parry: Another aspect that I just love, love about this book is the backdrop is the Temple of Heaven.
Now, a lot of Latter day Saints have never heard of the Temple of Heaven. They've heard of the Salt Lake Temple, Salt Lake City. They've heard of the Provo, uh, Logan, or Swiss, or... whatever, but the temple of heaven is the backdrop. And what do I mean by that? You might remember some of the, some of the high school plays that you, you went and saw, or maybe you participated in.
And on stage they would, they'd put a big curtain behind the stage. Now it's a farm, a farmhouse, and [00:11:00] a hayfield. Now it's a garden. Now, it's a forest. And they would change the backdrop. Behind the scene, John the Revelator is, uh, he's actually taken up to the Temple of Heaven, and he witnesses these great events from the Temple of Heaven.
Alright, let me talk about symbols. One huge barrier people have with the Book of Revelation is it's filled with symbols. Symbols, symbols. And some people don't know how to understand symbols. And when John used symbolic language in describing God, or Heaven, or Wicked Nations, some symbols are just hard to grasp.
So, that makes a lot of people nervous about symbols. Yes, it does. I recall, so here's a very easy example of symbol, [00:12:00] symbols and symbolism, and that's this very sacred sacrament that we partake of on Sunday. The, the, the broken bread and the water. And I, we, uh, my wife and I, uh, have six children and, and our second child, who, who's a daughter, she, uh, we taught her the symbolism of the sacrament when she's very young.
The bread represents Christ's flesh, the water represents His blood, and I noticed the very next Sunday. that our daughter did not partake of the sacrament. And then she didn't the next Sunday. She's like three or four years old. And finally I said, Honey, why, why don't you partake of the sacrament? And she said, I don't want to drink blood.
So, I had, I had taught it wrong or I didn't teach it clearly that it's a symbol of blood, it's not blood itself. So there are a lot of [00:13:00] beautiful symbols, and if you ponder each symbol and what it might mean in the verse or the context, then it just opens up the text. Therefore, symbols are one of the great keys to understanding this book.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I really liked that you said the word ponder because that has been my experience with this book. You know, first time reading it through, craziness. I don't get any of it. But I have come to learn what you just said. If there is a verse and you just don't get it and there's a symbol, just, it's okay to stop at that verse, close your scriptures and ponder on it.
You can even ask the Lord, what does this mean? You can receive revelation just like John did. And then you can use sources. A great source is the Institute Manual that the church has. I highly recommend using that as we study. And we're going to keep saying that each week. Get your Institute Manual out.
because it's going to have gray. I, but I just think it's important to ponder on a lot of this and see how it applies to your life. So that was great, Don. Thank you [00:14:00] for saying that. So let me ask you this then really quick before we transition out. And for those of you that have your scriptures open, where it says the revelation of St.
John, the divine, let's put a scripture covenants section seven. What verse was it that you read from where he was? Oh, thank you. A flame of fire.
Don Parry: That was, uh, Section 7, Verse 6. Perfect.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: So I put that next to the word, the Revelation, so I can remember that it's John. And then you can write anything you want about St.
John the Divine. I also put Beloved, he's the one that called himself John the Beloved, so we're going to connect that there. And then I also put, In a box, and I wrote in capital letters, use the J S T. So let's remember to use, like Don said, use the Joseph Smith Translation. It's going to help you a lot as you study this book.
So the next time you come back to study Revelation, you'll have that there to remind you. Okay, I need the J S T and then a little bit about what John was. So. Thank you, Don. Thank you for giving us the how, what, why, and all [00:15:00] that good stuff. Okay, so then in the next segment, we're going to talk about what Don introduced us to, which was that backdrop, a major theme in the book of Revelation.
So we'll do that next.
Segment 2
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Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, Don. So a lot of listeners are maybe stuck on the second thing you taught us about, which was that idea of a backdrop. Teach us about the backdrop for the entire book of Revelation. You said that it was the temple in heaven. Now I am very excited about learning more about this. So hit it. Tell us about this temple in heaven.
Don Parry: The temple in heaven. is found throughout the Book of Revelation. In fact, one time, and you, you all will probably may think that I'm really bored with, uh, life or something, but I read the Book of Revelation straight through, 22 chapters, just seeking out temple references. And [00:16:00] I found over 100 references, not just to the word temple, but to things that happen in the temple.
So Revelation chapter 1 starts with John, and he's in the equivalent of the holy place of the temple. And he sees the seven branched menorah, and then he sees Jesus Christ. He has a vision of Jesus Christ. And I, I, I will mention something important about his vision of Jesus Christ coming up, but, um, If you look at chapter 1, verse 5, it says, And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, so here's one of Jesus titles, faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead.
And the Prince of the Kings of the Earth. Three titles in a row. Remember, this book is Jesus Christ focused. Unto Him that loved us. And I love that [00:17:00] idea of love. Jesus Christ loved us. And then it says, And washed us from our sins. Now this is actually a wonderful remembrance of washings. in the Old Testament.
Washings with water, purification by water. We find this in the book of Exodus and throughout with regard to the tabernacle of Moses and also the temple of Solomon, and I want to remind everyone the tabernacle of Moses was indeed a temple. So, Jesus Christ loved us and washed us, but notice this, we expect John to say, washed us with water, because that's what everyone knew, was washings were with water, but then it says, washed us from our sins.
In his own blood. So there's a very important symbol there. When they were washed in the ancient temple, the water represented Christ's blood. It's [00:18:00] Christ's blood that cleanses us and purifies us. And just to remind our listeners that the water at the sacrament table also represents Christ's blood. I love that image.
But jump to verse 6, and it says, And hath made us, so Jesus Christ hath made us kings and priests, and to God and to his Father, to give To him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. This is also a reference to the temple. Anciently, temples were designed to make men and women kings and priests and so on.
And that's very important to know that. And here we have it here in the book of Revelation. So John in chapter 1 is in the holy place. Now, if you jump to chapter 4 verse 1, And I want to go back and look at the seven letters, because [00:19:00] they have some temple imagery in them. But chapter 4, verse 1, After this, I looked.
Now remember, he's having a vision of the temple of heaven and what's going to happen there. After this, I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven. So John is in the holy place, and now the door is to what we would call the Holy of Holies, or... John calls it the throne room. The throne room is where God the Father sits on the throne.
Uh, in chapters 4 and 5 describe beautifully and powerfully the temple in heaven. So, he says, uh, Behold, a door is opened. The first voice which I heard, that's the voice of Jesus Christ, was as it were a trumpet. So, Jesus Christ's voice is so clear. It's just like a trumpet. You won't confuse it with other noise.
Talking with me, which said, come up hither. [00:20:00] So, John is in the holy place, and then he ascends to the Holy of Holies, or the throne room, where God God was found. Now, I'm just going to jump around a couple of places now. John, during his vision, and he's there in the throne room, or the Holy of Holies of the celestial kingdom, he witnesses the, the events of four angels, and then seven angels, and then seven angels again, the seven angels with trumpets, and the seven angels with bowls.
Uh, I think the King James calls them vials, but they're bowls. And John says he sees the angels leave the temple in heaven. So this idea of the temple is found throughout this book. The temple of heaven, John sees the amazing events that are there. This also gives me so much comfort knowing [00:21:00] that The judgments that will, uh, come upon the earth in the last days will, uh, that they originate from the temple in heaven.
They're not, they're not found in some special building upon the earth. They come from God himself. So we know that they're righteous judgments and they're faithful judgments and they're designed to bring people to Christ and help them to repent.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I have a quick question, because you said the word seven.
What could we put in our scriptures, because seven is a lot of times throughout the book of Revelation. I think I read somewhere that it's 54 times the number seven is used. What does seven mean? What could we put in our scriptures?
Don Parry: Seven is a number that denotes perfection. So, when seven is used, this is God's number, and it's, it's affiliated with Him and His [00:22:00] perfection.
So, for example, in Revelations chapter 2 and 3, um, John writes to the seven churches. And some people have asked, well, aren't there eight or nine or ten or more? Yes, but the seven represents the wholeness and perfections. of the church. Okay. And let me quickly add that in Revelation 13, we have the number of the beast, which is 666.
That's Satan's attempt to reach seven. Six, he can't do it. Six, he can't do it. He can't do it. Uh, so he goes to the number closest to the number seven.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I like the way you just defined that, because yeah, seven is the most complete and pure number, and I've never heard anyone describe him being six six, and the fact that it's three sixes, meaning the most that he could possibly get, that's the closest he could get to seven, right?
Don Parry: Yes.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's so good!
Don Parry: And there's another [00:23:00] number in the book of Daniel and throughout the book of Revelation that denotes three and a half. And three and a half is half of seven. For example, in Revelation chapter 11, the two prophets are killed after three and a half years. So, three and a half is used maybe six or eight times in Daniel and Revelation, so it's half of seven, and it's, it's an incompletion.
It's where God's work is cut short.
That is good. In fact, Don, real quick, can you just give us the reference to where we can find the number of the beast being 666?
It's uh, verse 8. 18, chapter 13, verse 18. There it is. Okay. And I need to mention one other thing about seven, please. Yes. In Hebrew, the number seven is also the same number for oath or covenant.
And so it's [00:24:00] connected with oaths and covenants. I love that idea. Oh, don't,
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I could talk about that forever because it's the name, it's Sheva in Hebrew. And that's where we get the name Beth Tashiva is a daughter of the covenant, Bat Sheva. And so, excellent. Yeah. That just changes the whole story. She wasn't a harlot.
She was a daughter of the covenant. So, yeah. Oh, I get so excited about that. Yes.
Don Parry: And the word Be'er Sheva, Be'er Sheva, the city, scholars don't know if it means The well, W E L L, like the spring water, the well of the seven or the well of the covenant? That scholars don't know. Are there seven wells there or was it a covenant place?
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's good. Seven's an important number. So every time you guys notice it, mark that. Now, Don, one of the things I really appreciated that you started out by saying was when you took time to read the entire book and mark all of the temple wording that you saw or anything connected to temple. And [00:25:00] anyone, we have a lot of listeners who do work in the temple, who attend the temple.
That's what Don did is really fun to do. I chose pink as my color. I use a pink highlighter and I just went through and I. I highlighted it in pink. I wrote temple language and highlighted that in pink and then every time I read something that reminded me of the temple or sounded like wording from the temple, I highlighted it and boy oh boy, there's a lot of pink in my study of the book.
And I'm just beginning. There's so much more I'm going to mark, but anyone who's interested in doing that, I challenge you because it's really fun to read that and you'll be familiar with a lot of the wording. You'll be like, I've heard that, or that seems familiar. So, that was neat that you said that at the beginning.
It's a fun thing to do. Okay, so going back then to this idea, temple in heaven, where is it written in the book of Revelation that we can mark it?
Don Parry: Oh, the actual term, temple in heaven? It's actually found three or four places. All right, here are two references. John speaks of, quote, the temple which is in [00:26:00] heaven.
Revelation 14, verse 17.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, I'm going to go there and mark that.
Don Parry: Also, he says, quote, The temple of heaven, Revelation 16, verse 17. But he has other references, too. Uh, for example, he'll say, Another angel came out of the temple in heaven. Or it came out of the temple.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Alright, that is so cool. I wanted to find that wording.
That is neat. There it is, you guys. Temple, which is in heaven. So it is the backdrop for the book of Revelation. That is really fantastic.
Don Parry: And let me add this. There are a lot of scholars who study the temple in heaven, uh, in, in John and also in Hebrews chapter eight through 10. And there are several passages in the Old Testament that refer to the temple in heaven.
And I have in my library, maybe six or eight books that deal with the [00:27:00] temple in heaven. And some years ago, my wife and I were invited to go to a university in Michigan, where a graduate student was defending his dissertation. Uh, which he had written about the Temple in Heaven, and they had asked me to go there because of my interest in temples and ancient temples and so on, but it was a great experience to participate with other scholars who are so interested in learning about the Temple in Heaven.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Was this young man a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints?
Don Parry: No, actually he was a Seventh day Adventist. Oh, wow. And the Seventh day Adventists have some core beliefs. I don't know if this is what they would call, call them, and I don't want to misrepresent them, but one of their core beliefs is that there is a temple in heaven.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, that's really neat. I had no idea.
Don Parry: So, I want to give [00:28:00] you another, another reference to the temple in heaven in the book of, book of Revelation. If everyone will read chapter 11, verse 19. Now chapter 11 is about the two prophets who will serve in Jerusalem in the latter days. So chapter 11, verse 19, it says this, And the temple of God was opened in heaven.
So here you have the temple of God in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament. So, see, John sees in the temple of heaven the ark of the covenant. You remember the ark of the covenant of, of the, Uh, Tabernacle of Moses. So there's, there's one in heaven and John got to see it. I just love that idea.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I do too. Wow. Yeah, I had Ark of His Testament underlined and marked Ark of the Covenant, but I've never, I didn't take time to ponder on that [00:29:00] verse. This idea that an Ark of the Covenant in the temple of heaven, it just kind of shows you how important that is. Oh, that's good. Thank you for sharing that with us.
Very cool. Okay, so we've just had the backdrop laid. Here it is, the temple in heaven, and now the star of the show is going to walk on the stage, and that is Jesus Christ, and we'll talk about him in the next segment.
Segment 3
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Tammy Uzelac Hall: So there's a lot of great things that are in your book, the book about Revelation, and this is what I love. You wrote, Revelation is a Christ centered text. It teaches us many important truths about His divine mission, mortal ministry, atoning sacrifice, resurrection, kingship, and glory. So what we're going to do in this segment is we're going to look at some of his titles.
We get to talk about Jesus this entire segment. For those of you listening, we have [00:30:00] included all of the titles that are found in the book of Revelation, chapters 1 through all of them, basically. There's a huge exhaustive list. They're in the book, written by Don and Jay, if you want to go find those. But we also put the references.
That might be fun to do one day, is just choose one color. And go through and highlight all of his titles that are found in the book of Revelation. So I asked Don to come prepared to share with us what are some of your favorite titles that he has called in this book. Actually just chapters one through five, but if you want to go outside of that, feel free.
Don Parry: This is just an amazing privilege to talk about Jesus Christ in the setting and context of the book of Revelation. And, uh, I recall a scholar once summarizing the book of Revelation. With these words, with these two words, Jesus wins. Oh, I'm writing that. We know from Revelation, we know the [00:31:00] end, we know the conclusion, we know that Jesus is going to win over all of the forces of evil.
And there are several titles that denote his power. For example, Jesus is called Almighty in Revelation chapter 1, verse 8. He's called Almighty God in Revelation 19, verse 15. I also love the title that's found twice, King of Kings. That's found, for example, in Revelation 17, verse 14. And I once, uh, mentioned to To a friend of mine, when it says King of Kings, he's not speaking of the kings and queens of the earth and the powers of nations.
He's speaking of kings and queens that are [00:32:00] made such in our sacred temple. Here's a contrasting title of Jesus. 28 times he's called Lamb. Oh, talk to me about that. For 5 verse 6, He's the Lamb. Every time it mentions Jesus is the Lamb, we're talking about the sacrificial Lamb. But Jesus is the Lamb who lives.
He's standing, and He's alive because of the resurrection. But the contrasting term is, uh, found in Revelation chapter 5, verse 5. Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah. The idea that he's both a lamb, the sacrificial lamb, but he's also a mighty lion, the king of the animal kingdoms. I just love that contrast.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm hmm. I've never considered that before, how he, [00:33:00] yeah, like the two most contrasting of all animals. The mightiest and the meekest. And he's both. That's cool, Don.
Don Parry: He's, he's both. Uh, he's also called Alpha and Omega. Now, Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, and Omega is the last. And if you travel a lot in the Middle East and you visit, uh, different, uh, Eastern Orthodox churches, you'll find Alpha, the letter Alpha and Omega, near Jesus head.
It'll show Jesus with a crown, and it'll have Alpha on one side and Omega. He's the beginning and the end. I just love that doctrine. Can
Tammy Uzelac Hall: you tell me a little bit more about that? Why is that significant? Especially why that language, like... So, Alpha and Omega, what does that tell us about him?
Don Parry: Let me explain it this way.
There's also a title where he's called the First and the [00:34:00] Last. That's actually found four times in the book of Revelation. The first time I think is chapter 1, verse 11. So Alpha and Omega. in English, the first and the last, but let me give you one more title that will help us to understand, and that is that, um, he's him which is, so Jesus Christ exists now, which was, he existed in, uh, before this time, and which is to come, meaning the second coming Messiah.
So Jesus is the eternal one. Here's my summary. He's the eternal one. He's the one that will always be. He's a God we can count on. He was, uh, he existed before, he exists now, and he'll exist through eternity. Maybe that's not the best explanation. No,
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like that a lot. In fact, I have this. Can I ask you a personal question?
Do you have a story or experience in your life where You had to [00:35:00] count on him? Because you said he's the one you can count on.
Don Parry: I have several, many stories.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Is there one you'd be willing to share?
Don Parry: Yeah. When I had to count on him? Yeah. Uh, here is one that comes to mind. When I, uh, went to Israel, For the first time in 1987 and 1988, and I was studying at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and the first day of class, I was in class with all these native Israelis.
In a college class, and the teacher was speaking Hebrew full speed ahead, and the students were speaking Hebrew, and I was being instructed in Hebrew, and the first day of class, I left class and I asked one of the students in the hallway, what did we talk about today? Just because, uh, the, this, The instructor spoke so quickly, and I [00:36:00] couldn't keep up with the modern Hebrew, and I had to, to, to deal with this, and I'm working on my PhD, and I'm taking classes in Hebrew, I had to rely on Jesus Christ and on the Holy Ghost to help me through these days, weeks, months, and the entire period I was there, to help me to understand modern Hebrew, which is different than biblical Hebrew, and to, to compete with modern Israeli students who were born and raised reading Hebrew.
So I counted on Jesus, and I relied on him and his grace and his mercy and his love, and as it was, when I completed my coursework there, I received high marks on all my scores and grades and so on, but only because Jesus loves me, and he empowered and magnified my abilities. It's [00:37:00] nothing, nothing that I could do
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow, thank you very much for sharing that because I kept thinking as you were talking I was thinking even in school work we can count on him.
Sometimes we think asked to be big life decisions and big huge even though schooling is for sure big but I just appreciate how your answer was. In schoolwork, we can count on Him. And so, thank you. I really appreciate you sharing that.
Thank you.
Okay. Any other terms that you really liked?
Don Parry: I'd like to hear if you have any favorite terms.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, for sure I do. Okay, this is my favorite one. And it is in Revelation chapter 3, verse 14. And it says, you read it, it goes, These things saith the Amen. I've never considered that a name for the Savior is the Amen, and I love this so much because the word Amen is, has a, it's Hebrew, it's Amon in Hebrew, and it means to be sure or trustworthy or faithful.
And [00:38:00] the reason why this really strikes me, and it even makes me kind of emotional, is there's a quote from Elder Holland in his new book called Witnesses for His Names. And here's what Elder Holland had to say about this specific title, the Amen. Elder Holland says, As a title for Christ, It means that every word he has uttered will be fulfilled, and every promise he has made will be kept.
Through him, the purposes of God will be firmly and faithfully realized. And in my own life, when I understood what amen meant in Hebrew, It really changed my prayers because when I get on my knees and I pray to Heavenly Father and I'm talking to Heavenly Father and I'm asking for specific things, when we end in the name of Jesus Christ, instead of always saying amen, I translate it to in the name of Jesus Christ in whom I trust.
or in whom I am sure of. Amen. And I, for me, [00:39:00] that is powerful because I cannot do any of this on my own. I have to trust in my Savior, and that's what amen means to me. I used to always thought it meant, yay, I support what you just said. So sometimes someone would bear their testimony or give a talk and I wouldn't want to say amen because I'd be like, I don't agree with any of that.
I don't know. But it just changed, like now amen is a very sacred name or a word for me and how I end my prayers in whom I trust, in whom I have faith in. I really hope this works out for me. So that's why I like the title, the Amen.
Don Parry: You have said it so well. I like it too, because when we close our prayers.
And I've noticed that people worldwide close their prayers saying Amen. Whether they're speaking Korean or Spanish or other languages, they speak Amen. I too love it, love it, because I'm saying three names of Jesus Christ. [00:40:00] And I'm going to say this very carefully because of the sanctity of His names. In the name of Jesus, one name, Christ.
Second name, Amen. So we get to close with three sacred names of Jesus Christ. I just love that idea. You said it so well.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, so did you. I love that power of that. Well, and then when you said everybody across the board ends in Amen, the universality of Jesus Christ among all of his people, that's pretty cool.
That wasn't a mistake. That's pretty amazing. I didn't even think about that, Don. Thank you. Okay. Wow. Well, that was a, that was a very sacred 15 minutes. I'm really grateful we got to talk about Jesus and specifically his names. And so for any of you listening, that's my question this week. I want to know what name stood out to you [00:41:00] as you were studying.
The book of Revelation, what name of Christ in Revelation do you love? And maybe share with us why you like that and go check out our show notes because we'll have all of the names with the scripture references so you can do a fun study on the Savior, Jesus Christ. Okay, so knowing and understanding and believing in these titles are what are going to help us trust that he was sent here for us specifically for us, and we're going to discuss that in the next segment.
Segment 4
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Tammy Uzelac Hall: All right, let's turn to the book of Revelation chapter two and chapter three. That's what we're going to study right here. Now, as you read these, and Don kind of talked a little bit about this, these are letters written to seven churches. But what's really cool about these letters is that there's like this set formula and it includes a promise and a blessing.
to the people or to the churches. And so Don's going to teach us about these [00:42:00] promises and blessings. So this is going to be really fun. Grab something to mark with. I want you to grab, this is the color I chose, orange. And I want you to go throughout Revelation chapter two and three and highlight the name of the churches that he is writing to.
So for instance, in verse one, it says the church of Ephesus. Highlight that in orange and put a number one next to it. That's the first church. You're going to want to go through and highlight all of these churches and number them because as Don talks to us, he is going to cite these specific church names and teach us about some of the promises and blessings of each one of these churches.
Go ahead, Don.
Don Parry: There's an amazing structure to Revelation chapters 2 and 3 for each of the seven churches. I'll give you some examples. I won't go through the entire thing.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: For those of you listening, go to our show notes. We're going to put the chart that Don created so you can follow along with the references of the promises and the [00:43:00] blessings, um, so follow along with us, but, because we can't give them all to you right now.
But Don's going to go ahead and give us a few. So go ahead. Thanks, Don.
Don Parry: So, the commission is, it begins like this, Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write. And then the next church, Unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write. And so on for all seven churches. Then follows a description of Jesus Christ.
Again, Revelation is a Jesus Christ focused work. I'll give you two or three examples. To Ephesus, the description is this, These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks. That's a description of Jesus Christ. The description of Jesus Christ to the Church of Smyrna says, These things saith the first and [00:44:00] the last, which was dead and is alive.
And that's about Jesus. Oh, yeah. And so on and so forth. And then, uh. The next is, uh, a statement by Jesus Christ. And he says, to all seven churches, I know thy works, and to the next church, I know thy works, and to the next church, I know thy works, and so on seven times. This gives me great comfort knowing that Jesus Christ has all knowledge about the ancient churches, that means he knows about our churches too, and each branch of the church.
Now, I'm, I'm going to skip one of the categories and go to what is called the Call to Hear. And this phrase is found seven times, one for each of the seven churches. It reads like this, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the [00:45:00] Spirit saith unto the churches. So, Ephesus, the next church. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
And so on, seven times. I just love this structure. It's so easy to follow. Now, I'm going to go to the next part. The last part is called the promise and the blessing. And that is something that you mentioned. Each promise and the blessing says, To him that overcometh. Now, this is not, this is also addressed to men and women.
This is just the way the language worked. To him that overcometh, it also means to, to, uh, each of us who overcometh, meaning overcometh the world. Now, all seven of these, to him that overcometh, have a temple element. So we talked about marking your scriptures and finding temple themes. I'm just going [00:46:00] to give a couple of examples.
To Ephesus, to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Now remember, the first temple was the Garden of Eden temple. As Elder James E. Talmadge taught us so well, and when we go to the temple, uh, we recall and we remember the Garden of Eden narrative.
So this refers back to, if you overcome the world, you get to eat of the tree of life. And remember the tree of life in the story of Adam and Eve, and how they couldn't eat of the tree of life, they were taken from the temple. I want to give two or three more examples of to him that overcometh. Please. To one of the churches, to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna.
This is a reference to Jesus Christ. And will [00:47:00] give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth, saveth he that receive it. Receiveth it. So the white stone is a stone that is given to everyone who goes to the celestial kingdom. And the prophet Joseph Smith explained it will become a Urim and Thummim to each person who goes to heaven.
I love that idea of a stone and receiving a white stone and then having a new name written on it. Mm hmm.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, this this is cool. This is such amazing temple wording. I mean people who've been in the temple your ears should be perking. You should be like, oh, yeah So color it in the color you have. This is awesome.
Keep going.
Don Parry: Here's to another church Him that overcometh the same shall be clothed in white That's, uh, I want to remind [00:48:00] you that the high priest in the Old Testament on the Day of Atonement, Leviticus 16, wore white clothing into the Holy of Holies. And he had four separate pieces of sacred vestments on, uh, but all dressed in white.
So those who go to heaven will be clothed in white raiment. And this is another reference to the temple. To another church, the church of Philadelphia, Him that overcometh will I make a pillar. in the temple of my God. Now, this is a symbol. We won't become actual big stone, granite, or marble pillars, but it's the idea that a pillar in God's temple is steadfast and there, and will be there through eternity, not to be removed.
So, we'll be like this beautiful temple in God's, uh, a pillar in God's temple. So, to be clear, we won't become pillars, [00:49:00] uh, but we'll be, uh, uh, steadfast. Notice also a pillar is, is strong and helps support the building and serves as a witness of everything that happens in that temple. Now continuing this, and he shall go no more out, meaning from the temple in heaven.
And I will write upon him the name of my God. What's the name of his God? It's Elohim, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, and I will write upon him, him that overcometh, my new name. So those who go to heaven will have the three names, and one more. I know this is taking a bit of time.
To the seventh church, it says, I'm still in the promise and blessing to him that overcometh will I, Jesus Christ, grant to sit with [00:50:00] me in my throne. And remember in the temple of heaven, as we will see shortly, God's throne is prominent. And to sit with Jesus on his throne. And then it says, Even as I also overcame and am set down with my father in his throne.
These are amazing blessings. They're gifts to us. They're gifts of grace. They're gifts to let us know Jesus wins. He's going to win against the great evils of the world that we are experiencing now, and we have amazing Blessings ahead of us.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Don. Oh my gosh. That was so fun I have marked so much in my pink color for temple wording.
That was awesome okay, so Everyone take a breath if you need to to do a little breather go to [00:51:00] the restroom Maybe get a drink because in the next segment We're gonna dive into Revelation chapter 4 and we're gonna do more of this backdrop Talk about the temple in heaven. So we'll do that next.
Segment 5
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Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so we're gonna dive into Revelation chapter four, and it is full of so much goodness and a verse that maybe make you go, wait, what? So we're gonna let Don teach us all about that. Here we go.
Don Parry: Revelation chapter four and five constitute the greatest description of the Temple of Heaven, in my opinion.
And what happens there? Who is there? And, I, I think it's very understandable, I think it's plain if you're willing to conduct the work and the homework to understand it. So, if you go to chapter 4, verse 1, we probably will only read a few verses [00:52:00] because of the time frame. Okay. After this, I, John, looked, and behold, a door was opened in, in heaven.
So notice there's a door. Now he's going into the throne room of God the Father. And the first voice which I heard, Jesus voice, was as it were a trumpet talking with me. So here's your first symbol. How clear and plain is Jesus? are Jesus words. Wow! Super clear. It's, it, if you're listening to an orchestra and you hear a trumpet, you can identify it that, uh, from the piano or from a harp or from drums.
And in my opinion, Jesus, when he speaks to us in the scriptures or speak to us, speak to us in Revelation, sometimes it's as a trumpet.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like how you just said that because there's no mistaking a trumpet. Like, there's no other instrument that can mimic a trumpet. And so that makes me think too, like, Satan cannot mimic this.
Of all the instruments, that is blowing my mind, of all the instruments he could have [00:53:00] said. That is so good. Wow. I love that. Okay. A trumpet talking with me. Oh, that's so good. He didn't even say a flute. I don't know. That's so good.
Don Parry: Okay. Thank you. Uh, Jesus commands him, come up hither. So if John is in the holy place, we ascend into holier spheres.
The temple is all about ascension, uh, going up to a holier sphere. space, even if it's symbolic only. And we see that idea of ascension with mountain temples. Sometimes in the scriptures, some of the prophets and others have worshipped on mountains, which have become like temples. So Jesus says, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.
And most of the book of Revelation is It, uh, pertains to our day and the latter days and the second coming. And there are a few verses about the millennium. [00:54:00] Now, verse 2 of Revelation 4. John says this, and immediately I was in the spirit. So just to be sure, his body is still on the Isle of Patmos, but he's having a vision.
And some of the prophets have said when they've had a vision, whether in the spirit or not, I cannot tell. Whether in the spirit or the body, I'm not sure. But he's in the Spirit, and behold, in other words, look or pay attention, a throne was set. It doesn't mean someone just sat, it means a throne was sitting there in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Now I want you to know that the one sitting on the throne is God the Father. We'll see that in just a minute. And the throne is a very important element in the book of Revelation, and we have this idea. of metonymy, that's a fancy word meaning associated with the throne is, is the king or the queen. [00:55:00] And the throne is not just a chair, it's where a king sits.
So we have the idea of, of our great God, the king. Notice the description in verse three. Verse three really threw me off in my early days.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, tell us about that. It's a little crazy.
Don Parry: What is going on? And he that was, uh, and he that sat, God the Father, was to look upon, and then it says like a jasper and a sardine stone.
These are called, this is called a simile. Simile uses the form of speech, like or as. So is God a jasper and sardine stone? No. John is trying to describe using words the great amazing glory of God. And, uh, using, uh, precious stones, and the light of the stones. And he's just trying to, it's, it's hard to explain what glory he is [00:56:00] seeing.
Then he continues, and there was a rainbow. The rainbow is a beautiful, uh, uh, spectrum of light. So here, John's using earthly words to try to describe how glorious God the Father is. Uh, and the light around him round about the throne and in sight like here again, assembly, it's like an emerald. So he's using precious stones.
I love this idea. And I, I at one time looked up, uh, these precious stones and the colors and to see how beautiful they are. So I could. Try to grasp a little bit about what John is describing, but he's using symbols to describe God's glory.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: You know, I once had a scholar on the podcast who talked about the idea of this rainbow, and he said, when you go into the celestial room of the [00:57:00] temple and you look up at the chandelier, And you see the light and it reflects off in these prisms of rainbows in this celestial room.
And he interpreted that to be the reason why you see all those rainbows is it's because it's, it's emblematic of all of God's people. All the colors enveloped in this idea of a rainbow and that no one is forgotten. No one is left out. And so I think it's beautiful how in verse three right here, it includes that idea of rainbow round about the throne, just everyone, all of his children.
So I've never looked at that verse like that before. So thank you for pointing out the like the simile there. That was really cool.
Don Parry: So the, uh, uh, should I continue? Please.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yes.
Don Parry: I love this.
So, I'm going to just jump back for a moment and look at Revelation chapter 1, verse 14 and 15, and how [00:58:00] John the Revelator uses similar symbols to describe the glory of Jesus Christ. And I'll just take a moment here. It says his head and his hairs were white like wool. So does that mean Jesus as a resurrected being has white hair all the time?
I think John is trying to describe the the glory that is coming from Jesus Christ. Then he uses another simile, as white as snow. Next time you see snow, if you're in Utah, just think of the, how bright it is, especially if it's a sunny day. His eyes were as a flame of fire. Are they on fire? No, it's showing the glory.
His feet was likened to fine brass. as if they burned in furnace. See, John uses a lot of symbols to try to describe the great glory of God. Now, if we could go back to Revelation chapter 4 and look at verse 4, John is continuing [00:59:00] to describe what he's seeing in the throne room of, of heaven. And round about the throne were Four and twenty thrones, seats, or thrones, and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment, and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
I want to remind everyone that the temple makes men and women kings and queens, and that's one of the goals of the, the, uh, the temple. I'm talking about ancient temples, of course, is it's, uh, to, to prepare for an enthronement and coronation ceremony. So when, when they're clothed in white raiment, that's sacred vestments.
And they have, uh, crowns of gold on their heads, they've been made kings. And they're not, they're not a cheap tin or silver or bronze, they're made of gold, crowns of gold.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my [01:00:00] gosh, that's really awesome. Oh, I'm totally marking up my scriptures.
Don Parry: So I'm going, because of the sake of time, I'm going to jump down, I'm still in Revelation chapter 4.
But, uh, in verse 6 it says, And before the throne there was a sea of glass. We know from, uh, the Doctrine and Covenants that this sea of glass is like a great Urim and Thummim. where people can learn about the, uh, things of God.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Kirsten Don, I like that you just pointed out that we know this from Doctrine and Covenants.
And for everyone listening, take a quick second, look down at the footnote. It takes you to Doctrine and Covenants section 77. That's the section we told you to write at the very top of the book of Revelation, because you're gonna need section 77 when you study the book of Revelation.
Don Parry: Also at verse 6, There's four beasts, and this, the idea of four beasts has really made [01:01:00] people, uh, worried about the beasts, and what are the beasts, and, and, it sounds scary, beasts, but Joseph Smith said this should have been written for living creatures.
Or for living things or for living beings. And these are actually, I want to read just a couple of things that Joseph Smith said about them. Yeah, please. So, first, quote, John saw curious looking beasts in heaven. He saw every creature that was in heaven, all the beasts, fowls, and fish in heaven, actually there, giving glory to God.
Continuing with the quote, I suppose John saw beings there of a thousand forms that had been saved from ten thousand Times 10, 000 earths like this. Strange beasts of which we have no conception. [01:02:00] All might be seen in heaven. The grand secret was to show John what there was in heaven. John learned that God glorified himself by saving all that his hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fishes, or men, and he will glorify himself with them.
And, just jumping down, still the same quote. God who made the beast could understand every language spoken by them. The four beasts, so I'm back on the four beasts, were four of the most noble animals that had filled the measure of their creation. And had been saved from other worlds because they were perfect.
They were like angels in their sphere. We are not told where they came from, and I do not know. But they were seen and heard by John, [01:03:00] praising and glorifying God. End of quote. That's found in History of the Church, Volume 5, pages 343 and 44. Now, that's a lot of material, but that's really helpful to understanding these four.
Living creatures are the four beasts in chapter four. Wow.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I kind of feel like that guy who met you in the bookstore at BYU. Like, that's a lot. That is awesome. I can't wait to go study that some more. History of the church. Oh my gosh, Don. Thank you. Cause that is a little weird. Like the four beasts, what are we talking about?
But it makes sense now, especially when what they say to in verse eight, they're saying, holy, holy, holy Lord God almighty. That absolutely makes sense now why they would be saying that if they were perfect that you as a as you said the most noble animals [01:04:00] Hmm, very powerful. Thank you so much for giving us some insight into those verses Okay, so that's just revelation 4 so in the next segment then we're gonna dive into revelation 5 We're gonna see the role that Joseph's of translation plays in this revelation and a song that might be sung When the Savior comes, we'll talk about that next.
Segment 6
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Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, Don, here we go. Revelation chapter five, teach us about this really odd verse. And my question is this, why is it Jesus who is going to open the book and loose the seven seals? That's what I want to know.
Don Parry: Let's begin with chapter five, verse one. And remember, John is still in the temple of heaven and he's having this glorious vision.
Quote, And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne, written [01:05:00] with, uh, thrown a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. So first of all, notice the details John is giving us. He sees the right hand of him. We're speaking of God, the Father, and when we say a book, we don't think of a book with pictures or with pages.
It's a scroll. And the fact that it's written Um, within and on the back side, here's my opinion of the 900 Dead Sea Scrolls, and I do Dead Sea Scrolls research. You don't, uh, the scrolls are only written on one side, not on, uh, the front and back. So the fact that this scroll is written on the front and back tells me there's a lot of, a lot of, uh, writing here that they want to cover.
And it's sealed with seven seals. That's unusual. Usually a [01:06:00] scroll will be sealed with one seal, if at all. Verse 2, And I saw a strong angel, notice that, not any angel, but a strong angel, proclaiming it with a loud voice. So the loud voice is for emphasis. Who is worthy to open the book and to loose the seals thereof?
Verse 3, no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, which may be a reference to the spirit world, that's how some of the ancients would refer to the spirit world as the underworld, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. They, they can't even look at the book, and notice what, in verse four, I, John, wept, and he doesn't just weep a little bit, he wept much, because no man was found worthy to open, uh, and to read the book, neither to look thereon, and I, I feel emotional when I read this.
I, I [01:07:00] share with John, insofar as possible, this feeling of, oh, here's this important book, it's in God's right hand, it has writing on the front and the back, it's sealed with seven seals, and no one can look at it, open or look at it. Verse 5, one of the elders, the 24 elders mentioned in the previous chapter, said unto him, saith unto me, so here you have an elder who's probably stepping forth and saying to John, Weep not.
Don't weep. Why not? Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, that's Jesus Christ, the Root of David, he came through David's line, hath prevailed. Not just he's able to, he has prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof. And notice now, John is looking, verse 6, And I think he's looking around [01:08:00] to see the lion.
And I beheld him low in the midst of the throne, meaning round about the throne, and of the four pillars. beast in the midst of the elders stood a lamb. So I think John is looking around for the lion. I want to see the lion. I want to see him who can open this amazing book. And he looks around, and he sees a lamb, and as it had been slain.
So he could see the lamb had been slain, and of course the is none other than Jesus Christ. And, but it's not slain. It's stood. Stood a lamb. Victory. He's not laying on the ground dead. At victory, the lamb stood, and he could tell he'd been slain maybe because of the marks in his hands and feet. And then here's the difficult part.
This lamb has seven horns and seven eyes, which are the [01:09:00] seven spirits of God sent forth into the earth. And I need to give you the Joseph Smith translation. It's found in the footnote. The lamb having twelve horns, not seven, and twelve eyes. Not seven, which are the 12 servants of the Lord sent forth unto all the earth.
Now this is symbolic. The lamb didn't really have 12 horns. That'd be unusual. Didn't have 12 eyes, but it means the lamb has. Twelve apostles. Now, how do we know they're apostles? One clue is, in the Joseph Smith translation, it says they're sent forth, and the word apostle means sent forth. That's what it means, the Greek, and it's similar to the word epistle.
Epistle, apostle, and epistle is something also sent forth. Now, what are the twelve horns? A horn is a symbol of power. [01:10:00] Remember, uh, uh, great animals have horns. And what, what about 12 eyes? It means they are seers, se ers. These are 12 apostles who have great power, and they are seers, and they're sent forth into all the earth.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: What's significant about the number 12? What should we put in our scriptures for 12?
Don Parry: is the number of governmental... Power 12 apostles.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Well, my question is then why is Jesus then the only one who can open the seals? What's that role?
Don Parry: I'm going to give you that in a minute. Oh, okay. Carry on.
So, uh, Why Jesus? Why does he have the power? The answer's coming up.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, okay, go, go, go, I love this.
Don Parry: Verse 7, I'm still in Revelation 5, And he, Jesus Christ, the Lamb, [01:11:00] capital L, Lamb, came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Jesus approached God the Father. This is super.
Sacred. I, I feel the sanctity of these words. Jesus came to the Father. Who can approach the Father sitting on the throne? Who would ever dare to take something out of His hand unless it is meant for Him to do that? Jesus came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat up on the throne, and, verse 8, when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb.
They're, they're, they're worshiping the Lamb. They're realizing He is the King of Kings. He is God Almighty. And every one of the... [01:12:00] Four beasts and the 24 elders had a harp and they had, it says golden vials, it, it, it shouldn't read vials. Uh, full of incense. It says full of odors, which are, and it explains it, uh, the prayers of the saints.
So they're carrying with them a musical instrument and also golden bowls or, uh, vials, or bowls that you've taught us. Bowls. And notice this verse nine, and they sung a new song. I just can't wait, Tammy, to hear this new song. I can't wait to, I can't wait to hear the music and the song. And will it be sung in English?
Or will it be sung in Hebrew? Or will all languages know it? And here's the new song saying, Thou, Jesus Christ, Thou art worthy to take the book. This is explanation one. Why can [01:13:00] Jesus take that book? Because he's worthy and to open the seals thereof and then here's why you know about the motive clause That's introduced in scriptures hundreds of times.
Why is he worthy for? Thou was slain and has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred and and tongue and people and nation. Why is Jesus worthy to approach God the Father in this ever so sacred setting and to take this scroll that has seven hills and the new song tells us? And I hope that Tammy, you and I get to sing this song and be part of this group.
Why? Because he's worthy. He was slain for us. He has redeemed us to God. Uh, because of his blood. I love the idea. His blood has [01:14:00] redeemed us. And, uh, uh, people from every kindred and tongue and people and nation across the world will, uh, participate this. And the song continues, verse 10, And has made us, Jesus made us, and to our God, kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
And I have to read verse 11, uh, maybe 12. And I beheld and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne, and the beasts, and the elders, and the number of the angels, number of them was 10, 000 times 10, 000, and 10, 000 times 10, 000 is a hundred million people. This is a round number. We know that because it means a huge, huge, uh, number of people up there who are around about the throne, a hundred million plus [01:15:00] thousands of thousands.
And verse 12, saying with the loud voice, so we have the new song. Now we have the The, saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the lamb that was slain to receive powers. The lamb will receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh, hold please. I was just marking my scriptures right then.
I can't write fast enough. This has been the greatest hour and a half of my life. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yes. Verse 12 then. Will you read that verse 12 one more time? I just think it's so beautiful.
Don Parry: So we're talking about the hundred billion plus thousands of thousands.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: It's going to be so loud.
Don Parry: Yes. So loud. Saying with a loud voice, and I can just hear this in unison, Worthy is the Lamb, capital L, Jesus, the Lamb of [01:16:00] God, that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: I mean, it just, those words are so beautiful. And so powerful and it takes me back in my mind as you're reading those.
I was thinking of our our pre earth life and being there and knowing that this would be the outcome and I'd like to think I was part of that group and that You're right. Jesus wins. He just wins. That is the message of this book. And to have that many people saying with a loud voice, I think that's just so worthy is the lamb.
Absolutely. He's the one that could take the book. He's the only one that could open the book and the seals. And it's. It's going to be a fun discussion next week as we talk about these seals, but it's, it's just powerful that in your message is very [01:17:00] clear that you put in your book that the book of Revelation is about Jesus.
And that's who we need to look for. And the temple wording that the heaven temple, the temple in heaven, I mean, it's just so beautiful Don. So thank you for sharing all that, you know, and thank you for paying the price to know what you know, because it's taken a lot of time and I'm just grateful for everything I've learned.
I have to take a picture of my scripture so everyone can see all the notes that I have written. That was awesome. So Dawn, thank you for sharing with us. This was a sacred space and I appreciate everything that I have learned today. So we're just going to take a minute and we'll gather our thoughts and if there's anything that struck us as we talked today, we just usually ask our guests to share what's one thing that you'll take away from your study of these five chapters.
I'm going to go first because I don't even know how I'm going to pick one thing. Um, I think for me, I, I've just never noticed before where his voice was like a trumpet. I thought that was really cool how you explained that [01:18:00] and it just, it cannot be mimicked. And so I thought that was really neat. And then I really liked your discussion on Revelation chapter four, verse two, and I've The, the like, the simile right there, I mean, how many times have I read that and just been like Jasper, Sardine, Rainbow, um, but our discussion of that just changed my viewpoint of that verse.
So, I loved it. And our discussion of Christ. There's so much I loved. This whole chapter, this whole episode is a takeaway. Oh, it's good stuff. Anything, any parting thoughts for us?
Don Parry: I, I just feel so blessed to have the book of Revelation in a language I can read in English. And I, I just feel so blessed to have the promises there and the gifts of, gifts of the atonement that are revealed, uh, the fact that Jesus Christ can open those seals because he's worthy, he was slain, and he's redeemed us by his blood.
He's the only one who [01:19:00] can open this, this book. And I feel so blessed to know that we know the, the final outcome of, of this world. And the outcome of, of God's saints. Amen.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Hey, I'm just curious, have you ever tried to translate Revelation chapter 5, verse 9 into Hebrew?
Don Parry: Oh, that would be fun. I have not. I'm going to challenge you.
Okay, Revelation, let me write this down. Revelation what?
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Chapter 5, verse 9. That new song that we'll sing. Oh, I love it. I wonder if in Hebrew, if it is poetic, because you know how in the Psalms, how things just flow when you read it in Hebrew? Yes. I'm just curious to know if it is something we could sing in Hebrew, because I'll sing it in
Don Parry: Hebrew.
I love that idea. Thank you. Thank you. That's a great idea.
Tammy Uzelac Hall: Go ahead and get back to me on that. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, Don, no, [01:20:00] thank you. Thanks for spending this time with us. Boy, I just really appreciate and I admire you. So, thank you, thank you. Okay, well, if you felt like you bit off more than you could chew, you're in good company.
That was so much information. I loved it. And I'm going to be processing a lot of this for a really long time. So, of course, I want to know what you guys learned and what you're thinking about everything that we just spent the last two hours talking about, well, hour and a half. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group, and if you're not on Facebook or Instagram, go join.
It is such a great place where you can share what you've learned throughout the week. You can even ask questions, and I try to answer those throughout the week, and so does our whole community. It's pretty awesome. And then every week at the end of the week on a Saturday, we post a question from this episode.
So, you know, the question I'm asking, and I'm just so excited to find out. What name for Christ stood out to you? So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your answer and your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on LDSliving.
com [01:21:00] slash Sunday on Monday. And it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have a link to all the references. We're going to have a transcript of this entire discussion as well as The chart that Professor Perry was talking about. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living.
It's written and hosted by me, Tammy Uzelac Hall. And today our incredible study group participant was Professor Donald W. Perry. And you can find more information about my friend at ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and mixed by Cole Wissinger, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom.
Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week, and please remember, you are his favorite. Amen.
Don Parry: No, thank you. I appreciate that a lot.