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Tammy Uzelac Hall: [00:00:00] So, here's a predicament. If someone you loved was in danger of being threatened and terrified into denying the Lord, What would you say to them? Because that's a pretty heavy predicament. And it is exactly the premise of 1 and 2 Peter. Today we get to read what Peter chose to say to those in his day who were in this exact crazy scary situation.

And the words of these letters even had Joseph Smith exclaiming that Peter penned the most sublime language of any of the apostles in these two books. Welcome to the Sunday on Monday study group, a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living, where we take the come follow me lesson for the week.

And we really dig into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Usilac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, we want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So please follow the link in our description and it will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your come follow me study just like my friend.

Joanne Hokanson. [00:01:00] Hi friend. Okay. Now here's my favorite thing about this study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends. So sometimes it's a little bit different, but today we have two regulars and they're your favorites, fan favorites right here. We have Abe Mills and Tyler Collette. Hi guys.

Abe Mills: Hey how are you Tammy?

Tammy Uzelac Hall: That's what we should call you. The dudes. They're here.

Abe Mills: Glad to be here.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, we're so excited to have you here. I mean, this is going to be a great discussion. How'd you feel about reading first and second Peter?

Yeah.

Had you, well, had you read him before or were you like, huh? First and second Peter.

Abe Mills: Probably the last time I read through first and second Peter was when I was in seminary. I want to be honest here. Yep.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Right. Same. Oh, yeah. I think everybody listening is like first and second Peter. What does that even have to say? So yeah, this will be so awesome to get your, to your perspective on these verses.

And so I'm excited. Okay. Well, for those of you listening, if you want to know more about my guests, you can read their bios and see their pictures, which are in our show [00:02:00] notes, and you're going to find that at LDS living. com slash Sunday on Monday. So do this, grab your scriptures, your scripture journal, and something to mark your scriptures with.

And we are going to dig in to first and second Peter. Thank you. Okay, so how was that heavy predicament at the beginning?

Tyler Collet: Yeah, that, uh...

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Like, did anything pop into your head about what you would say or do?

Abe Mills: You know, it's kind of interesting because we have discussions like that around our house. Not necessarily about death, um, or, well, I guess it wasn't really about death.

It's more about, like, your testimony being challenged. But we have lots of teenagers at our house and kids. And so we talk to them all the time about, like, Hey, you know, there's people out there that will want to test your faith. Whether it be for purposes of guiding you in the wrong direction or whether it be for purposes of challenging you.

And so we have these conversations a lot around our house. And so, um, the way that we handle it usually is to ask them questions. What [00:03:00] would you do if this happened? Um, what would you do if somebody said this? And then kind of we let those kind of discussions start from there. Ooh,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: that's awesome.

Tyler Collet: I like that.

I know. I mean, we've experienced it, right? Where we grew up in St. Louis, uh, very few members of the church in the area that we grew up. So, I mean, we experienced it firsthand. I don't know about you, but I got picked on in high school because of my faith, but I was able to use that to be able to kind of help teach my kids, uh, mission.

I'm sure every missionary gets challenged. On their testimonies daily. So yeah, it's, it's something that, uh, kind of what Abe has done. We ask them, Hey, what if, you know, or just because we live where we live now in Utah, where it seems like every one of your neighbors is a member of your ward, but that doesn't necessarily mean that their faith still won't be challenged.

Abe Mills: So one of the things that we do that I think is kind of at least [00:04:00] different than what I've experienced as I was growing up in the church is that we kind of bring up stuff to our kids That maybe some parents might try to keep away from them because we know that it's gonna happen So like for instance if something comes up about the church, it's like somebody like recently there were some financial things that happened or There's always something that people want to say about the church instead of like trying to You know, in the past, people want to talk about polygamy, people want to talk about blacks in the freestood, and so I always bring that stuff up to my kids, not in a whole, I don't keep it away from them in hopes that they'll, that won't, like, oh, I don't want this to mess with your testimony, I bring it up and I say, hey, this is something, let's talk about it, what do you think?

And then I, we kind of having discussions about it and I explained to them, you know, my process of going through, you know, those types of things and, and, and finding out my answers and how they can find out their answers. And so because of that, I think my kids, when they hear things, it doesn't shake them as much as it might.

[00:05:00] If you thought, well, the church is perfect or all the leaders are perfect. You know, a lot of times kids. Even though as adults, we don't tell them that that's the way it is. Sometimes it seems like that's the way it is based upon how we act. And so for, you know, I'm always bringing up like constantly like, see, this is a situation where your leader wasn't necessarily perfect, but how do we support these leaders in this way?

And blah, blah, blah. So that's kind of.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Well, I like that. You preempted it. I think that's great. Both of your answers were really awesome. You know, it struck me because in the Bible dictionary, if you look up the epistles of Peter, that is the exact wording they use as they define the epistles. It really does say the people were being threatened and terrified into denying the Lord.

And that struck me. I was like, wow, these times are tough. Like being a Christian after Christ's crucifixion was not an easy time. at all. And Peter's first epistle will acknowledge that. I found a really cool quote from our prophet. I think this would be his advice to us. [00:06:00] And I think it is his advice to us.

So we're going to read this and we're going to join it with the two of you with the advice. Both of you game. I think this quote is so cool. Tyler, will you read this for us, please?

Tyler Collet: Yeah, sure. Tammy. He says, uh, please know this. If everything and everyone. Else in the world, whom you trust should fail, Jesus Christ and His Church will never fail you.

The Lord never slumbers, nor does He sleep. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And tomorrow he will not forsake his covenants, his promises, or his love for his people. He works miracles today and he will work miracles tomorrow.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: So I feel like throughout 1st and 2nd Peter, Peter lived this advice, like he had absolutely adhered to it.

And he was trying to teach this to the people, like no matter what, the Lord will not forsake you. Um, he will never, I like that in the quote, he will never fail you. And Peter had a lot to be afraid about, right? He is like the leading apostle. He's [00:07:00] the prophet. In fact, turn back with me to John chapter 21 verses 18 and 19.

There's something a little ominous about the Savior's final words to Peter in John chapter 21 verses 18 and 19. And Abe, can you read that for us, please? You

Abe Mills: bet. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkest Whither thou wouldest, but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee, whither thou wouldest not.

This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, underline whither he wouldest not, signifying by what death he should glorify God. Right there, the Savior is foretelling Peter that he would be martyred, that he would be carried by someone else, and that his death was imminent.

He's predicting his death. [00:08:00] Now, 1 and 2 Peter are written near the end of Peter's life. Turn to 2 Peter 1, verse 14, and let's read what Peter has to say right here in this verse. Tyler, can you read 2 Peter 1, verse 14?

Tyler Collet: Knowing that shortly I must put off this tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed

Tammy Uzelac Hall: me.

And right there where it says, hath shewed me, you can cross reference it to John 21, verses 18 19. He's like, the Lord told me, I knew that this would end, and it's about to happen. And so he's, this is his final wording. To all of the saints, as well as to us. So for both of you, knowing that these are most likely Peter's final words, did anything specific stand out to you from this letter that you, that hit you or would benefit us?

Tyler Collet: Yeah, I thought it was kind of cool that he didn't lament that death. He didn't, you know, say kind of, you [00:09:00] know, my time, I wish I had more time. I wish this or that, but he, he stood firm. And. You know, understanding what the Lord had in plan for him and his message that he needed to get out before that time came.

I don't know if I could do that. If someone told me, hey, you're going to perish. In three weeks from now, you know, I, I'd go into full panic mode, I think.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, I'm like, Tyler would hunker down and just watch, you'd just watch movies and eat popcorn for three weeks. Oh yeah.

Abe Mills: I know there's a few movies that are on my list that I haven't seen yet.

Yeah.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Well, that's, but that's so good, Tyler. And I appreciate how you said that because if he knows he's about to die, not at any point in these letters, did he ever say, listen, you big babies, I've done it. You can do it. I'm about to be martyred. So just, you know, let's get it together. Yeah. Gird up your loins.

He never, ever once did [00:10:00] that. That I think is a great point that you put out. Like he just, he didn't, and he just remained faithful. So good. What about you? You know,

Abe Mills: I think he did a really good job of what I, what really stood out to me was just his ability to warn us of things that he knew. I mean, and I look at this kind of like when you go through the scriptures and you see somebody that's about to die.

Then those chapters you read, you know, like, like for instance, Lehigh, when Lehigh was about to die, you go back and you read those chapters. It's like, this is some very, very, very good things in there. And you can always take those things and go, wow, this is some stuff that he thought was very, very, very, very important for people, because this is the last thing that he decided after all of his experience, this is what he wanted to focus on.

So I thought he did a really good job of just warning us about certain things. And, and not even in necessarily a warning voice as much as. And, um, he was advising us. He was helping us and trying to help us on what to focus on in our lives and [00:11:00] what was important.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow, both of you great shares. I like the perspective that you have as we're going into this.

And so using your words, Abe, what we're going to do then is in the next segment, we are going to dive in to some of Peter's last words and just see how they speak to us and, and what perspective we gain from hearing what Peter has to teach all of us. So thank you. We'll do that next.

So in the old Testament, after David had sinned, he laments throughout the book of Psalms asking God for forgiveness. He also prays that God will remember him in quote times of trouble Psalms chapter 20 many times throughout Psalms You'll hear that that word times of trouble boy raise your hand if you're familiar with times of trouble who gets that always Always absolutely.

Okay, so I've asked Tyler and Abe [00:12:00] to think about a time in their life that they would define as a time of trouble And I want you guys to kind of have that in the forefront of your mind as we look at some verses in first Peter and we're going to look at how Peter describes these times of trouble. So we're going to start and as we read these verses, I want you guys to underline any words that stand out to you that you say, Oh yeah, that relates to my times of trouble.

Okay, here we go. We're going to go to first to first Peter chapter one, verse six. All right, I will read that. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations. And that word temptations down below for 6a, you want to mark that. It's actually the word trials or afflictions, manifold trials or afflictions, which means many.

Okay, let's go to first Peter chapter two, verse 19. And Tyler, will you read verse 19 for us?

Tyler Collet: For this is thankworthy. If a man for [00:13:00] conscious toward God endured grief, suffering will wrongfully.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. And then we are still in 1 Peter. We're going to go to chapter 4. And Abe, will you please read verses 12 and 13?

Again, we're looking for words that connect to your time of trouble.

Abe Mills: You bet. Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you. As though some strange thing happened unto you, but rejoice partakers of Christ's sufferings, that when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you. Okay, could you relate to any of the words in those verses?

Tyler Collet: I think, yeah.

Abe Mills: Well, I like, I like in verse 12 it says, Think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you. I think sometimes We feel like we're the only ones are struggling with [00:14:00] things or having bad things happen to us, or, you know, going through trials, or at least it seems like ours are tougher than everybody else's, whatever it is, I think sometimes, and he's saying, thinking not strange, this is not, you know, this is part of, it's part of it, it's meant to be, and you know, we talk about that, man, if you, if at first you don't succeed, then you're normal, that's what I always say, but it's, It's one of those things where, you know, you, you try and you try and you try to do something sometimes and sometimes it's not about, you know, we, we say, you know, we live in a society where like, is it about the victory?

Yes, it's always about the victory. In God's, in God's, uh, world, I don't think it's about the victory because we can't do the victory on our own. It's about our efforts. It's about our attitude. It's about our dependency on our Heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ and how much we let go of ourselves.

And so I think that what he's saying is that like, hey, when there's, when you have these struggles in life, [00:15:00] don't find it to be strange. This is part of your journey that you agreed to.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, I like that. In fact, I went back and underlined, don't think it to be strange. That is awesome. What about you, Tyler?

What word did you connect with?

Tyler Collet: You know, in, uh, first Peter chapter one and six, that's, that's the verse that really stood out to me through though now for a season. So to me, you know, I went through a season of my trial, right? And the heaviness of the, of that trial and, and to kind of piggyback. On what Abe was saying, I think that when we go through these and we feel like, you know, nobody really understands what we're going through, it's because we're going through it alone.

Most of the times, with most situations, obviously there's some situations that involve others, but for the most part, if you, if you really stop and think about it, the trials that we go through are personal trials. And so we're going [00:16:00] through it, what we feel like, as alone. And a lot of times we forget that.

You know, Christ is, as we read from President Nelson's quote, he never leaves us alone. We're never alone. We just feel like we are. And, and that's kind of what, uh, I wanted to piggyback off of Abe, but the, uh, verse six, uh, you know, for a season. So to me, that's a, this isn't going to be over tomorrow morning.

You know, there's something that needs to be learned from this or changed from this. And that's going to take time.

Abe Mills: Yeah. You know, Tyler, I love what you said there. And you know, when you think about it, when you say for a season. You know, there is always it's for a season. It's never forever, right? Right. We know that what we're doing and we're in it for the long haul.

We're in it for ever. And so no matter what it [00:17:00] is, whether it's something that's going to last us for a week, for a month, for a year, for several years, and maybe for a lifetime that ultimately it's only for a season and that ultimately we will have victory because this is forever.

Tyler Collet: And I'm so glad you said that because As you're going through those trials, it feels like it's forever.

It feels like this is never going to end. I don't see the light at the tunnel. No end in sight, right? But you're absolutely correct. I mean, as long as we can continue to remember or put it in perspective in the eternal aspect of things, it is. It's that little short moment.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, absolutely. Well, what was so interesting to me as we were reading through these verses and reading throughout first and second Peter is you read these really heavy and dark words that describe times of trouble.

But Peter also then gives us words that seem joyful. Like, I [00:18:00] like his wording so much because he's like, yes, it's hard and heavy and so let's read some of the and scriptures that Peter wants us to understand. We're going to be in first Peter chapter one, and now we're going to continue and we're going to read verses seven through nine.

So Abe, read those for us. How many of you had verse 7 already marked? It's a classic. Yeah, right.

Abe Mills: 1st Peter chapter 1 verse 7 through 9, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's awesome. That the trial of your faith being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen ye loves, in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of

Tammy Uzelac Hall: your souls.

Thank you. Can we just pause on that for a second? Because the two of you just beautifully set up these three verses. In fact, in my [00:19:00] scriptures, I circled for a season. I like that you pointed that out, Tyler. And then to the outside, I write, I wrote, the trial is not forever, but our faith is. And then we go into these verses that just says that, like, I didn't even, I'm just now connecting all of this, the trial of your faith, because that really is what it's about, right?

It is a trial. Everything we go through is a trial of our faith. Even though it might be, if it's a physical trial, an emotional trial, whatever it is, at the root of every trial, it, I feel like it tests our faith.

Abe Mills: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, my, um, my kids are involved in sports heavily and, um, and so I see this all the time because, you know, you, you do something and you accomplish something and you think it's great.

And guess what? The next year, when you get to the next season, that in and of itself and by itself will not get you through that season. You have to actually work hard enough and have enough, like, you have to put yourself [00:20:00] through enough trials. And sometimes practices are trials. If you've ever been to, my daughters go to cross country in the morning, they have to be there at 545.

So we leave our house at 515 in the morning and they drive there and then they go and then they run for an hour. And it's like, man, I, I don't know, but that right there to me is a trial, right? And I'm telling you right now that none of those girls, if they didn't do that, they would not even be considered any, they wouldn't be winning anything.

They wouldn't get close to their best times because they wouldn't have gone through that trial. And so I think sometimes in, in life, uh, spiritually, uh, we just kind of, we, we kind of have to realize and understand that we have to go through those trials. We have to go through the tough stuff, man. And, and that's the only way that we, That we increase our faith, that we increase our understanding, that we grow in the gospel.

Tyler Collet: And I like how you tied that into the sports, Abe, because it's true, you have to put in the work in order to [00:21:00] reap the benefits. And same thing with our faith. If we don't exercise our faith, we

Abe Mills: don't reap the benefits. Yeah, and you go through those doubts, man, when you're trying to perform, and it doesn't work out like you're expecting, and I mean, all these kids are going through these things, it's not like every time you go out, you run your best time, or every time you go out onto the football field.

And how easy would it

Tyler Collet: be to just say, you know what, I tried, I give, I give up.

Abe Mills: Yeah. Exactly. But it's, it's getting through those times when it's not going well, but you're still pushing through that you learned the most. Oh,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: totally. Well, and it, okay, I'm, we're just going to apply then a word that I think is why we get back up and keep trying.

And so, Continuing on with Peter's really great advice and words to us, we're going to read a couple of verses here. So Tyler, will you please read in 1 Peter 1, verse 3. Read verse 3 for us, please.

Tyler Collet: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy [00:22:00] hath begotten us again unto a lively hope.

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, there's a word in there. We're going to see that word again. And, and see if you can figure out what the word is. Go to verse 13 in chapter 1. And Abe, will you read that?

Abe Mills: Verse 13. Wherefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, And hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, now let's go to verse 21. Who by him do believe in God that raised him up from the dead? And gave him glory that your faith and hope might be in God. What word is it that just gets you back up thinking, Oh, I, maybe I can do this again. Hope. Hope. Hope. Right. Yeah. Hope. Oh, there's so much power in that word.

So I want you to do this for me. I want to know from both of you, [00:23:00] going back to how I said at the beginning, I asked you to think about a story where you had a time of trouble. What gave you hope to carry on? How did hope fit into that situation?

Tyler Collet: Yeah, I'll start. So, and I think I've used this story in the past on the podcast, but it was, uh, during my divorce.

This was back in 2005. Still a young kid, trying to figure things out. You know, I was...

Tammy Uzelac Hall: How old were

Tyler Collet: you? Oh, I was probably in my mid twenties. Mid 20s, well, maybe 26, 27, maybe. Oh, you're a young kid. Yeah, that was a kid. That was a kid. Yeah,

Abe Mills: young, young, young cat right there. Yes, sir. And you know,

Tyler Collet: during that time, that was a dark time in my life.

I mean, I'd pretty much, pretty much done everything but absolutely leave the church altogether. Um, it's a thing for me during that [00:24:00] time. I had no hope. There was no hope. Um, and I didn't, I didn't have that mindset. It was, uh, quite the opposite actually. It was, woe is me. Why am I going through this? Um, you know, I, I was by definition pretty stalwart all through high school.

I had, you know, seminary, 100 percent grad, uh, attendance, scripture, mastery, you name it. Right. And, uh, So I thought, you know, I'm living a good life, served on a successful mission, came back. Lo and behold, you know, you get married and, and then things happen and it falls apart and, and I'm, and I'm in that, that lamenting phase, right?

But, uh, instead of turning to God, I just turned to the world really. Um, so I, I had, I'd given up a lot of hope. Um, and it wasn't until, it wasn't until I actually got in touch [00:25:00] with Carol Lee, where maybe I just had a glimmer of hope. Um. But not like where I am today by any means it definitely took time it was a definite season for sure And there was a lot of falling there was a lot of falling down and there was a lot of learning I went through the repentance process several times and It, for me, I think the biggest thing that I could equate it to was fear, right?

Fear of going back to church, fear of everyone judging me, or, you know, talking behind my back or whatnot. Not that I really care, but I still don't want that, um, or didn't want that. And I think that was my biggest thing, is overcoming that fear and realizing, hey, It's okay to be human. It's okay to, you know, have fallen.

That's [00:26:00] what the repentance process is for. And life can be better if I want it to be. And it's, it starts with me as an individual. And I had, I had to want that. And so it, it was a definite season or two to want that again in my life. And, uh, it, it was a long uphill, but, you know, I, I'm still venturing towards the top, but, uh, that, that was definitely probably my biggest trial that I've encountered to date.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. To date. Uh, okay. I have a question for you. What advice would you give, looking back, what advice would you give to 26 year old you?

If you could sit with him knee to knee. I would probably

Tyler Collet: tell myself, what matters most to me? What's in the eternal things, in the eternal perspective, [00:27:00] what matters most? What is it? Oh, it's returning to live with Heavenly Father. Being with my family, that's what matters most. It's not my job. It's not who is right or wrong in a relationship.

It's not... You know, being, being the, the, the guy that everyone turns to for advice or answers or anything. It's living, living my best life in a way that I know God would want me to live. That's, that ultimately, you know, is how I look at things and helps me keep going back up that hill.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Great advice. Wow.

Thank you, Tyler. Abe, what about you? How did hope play into your time of trouble?

Abe Mills: So. You know, we, when my wife and I got married, um, and we were about to [00:28:00] have our first child, Jackson, we went in for an ultrasound and found out that there was something going on with his heart. We didn't know what it was, and they didn't know, and they came up with about a hundred different things that they told us could be wrong, and all this stuff that could be wrong with him.

And so, you know, as a new parent, or a new parent to be, we, you know, parents, we were... We were just like kind of worried, you know what I mean? And, um, so through that time. Uh, there was all, all of this worry and fear of, oh no, you know, is there a problem? Will he, will he survive? And then as we, as we go through these things, um, he gets, he's born and he's with an emergency c section.

Uh, he's in the newborn ICU for a week and then he gets out with basically monitors and um, oxygen. And so he had that and they, they said basically with the [00:29:00] way that his heart was, um, that he'd have to have that until he had surgery and they didn't want to have surgery until he went to school. So like five, six years old.

And so we're like, Oh wow, we're going to have to carry that thing around. And, and yet still we were in and out of the hospital, even after that for the first. Two months of his life and in many cases didn't know what it was the doctors couldn't figure out You know what it was that was wrong with this heart exactly So anyway through that time through all those trials and ultimately he was when he was 15 months old He had a surgery because they just didn't want to wait anymore Through all of those trials and everything I mean that it was just a lot to deal with as a new parent our first time having a kid and then not knowing like if it was something that kid, you know make take his life or You know, if that was going to, to, to take his life, of course, anytime you do a surgery, there's always a chance something can happen.

And we're [00:30:00] such a little kid. Um, I know that like for, for me and my wife, we really just tried to, to just kind of say, okay, we know that this is beyond our control and, um, but, but we know what one thing that we can't control is our faith and there's a scripture that always comes to my mind and it's Ether 12.

I want to say it's four off the top of my head, but it says whosoever believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world. And when I, when I think about that scripture, I think, huh? Yeah. If I believe in God, then I can with surety hope for a better world. No matter what's going on in my life right now, I can hope for a better world.

And so, um, whether that's, like I said, whether that's to come here while I'm here on earth or the world to come, um, I can hope for that better [00:31:00] world. Which Then would change in the very moment the way that I approach my life the way that I feel about my life And so I feel like we got through that with a lot of prayers a lot of hope a lot of faith And you know Jackson, I mean, he's he's our amazing child.

He's our oldest and he now is works at the Polynesian Cultural Center and is a drummer in the Tahitian village and at the night show out there and Ran a marathon when he was 16 and all that kind of stuff. And after having all that heart, the, the heart surgery and everything. So, you know, I mean, and it could have turned out completely differently and.

In the end, you know, what would have mattered most is that when we were in that situation, that we learned how to depend on God and to place our faith and hope where it should be in our Savior.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you, Abe. You know, Abe, as you were speaking, one of the things I noticed about both [00:32:00] of your stories Where they both connected back to one Peter chapter one, verse 13, you both shared in your own way.

This is so fascinating. In verse 13, it says, wherefore gird up the loins of your mind. And usually you read gird up your loins, which means get ready to work. But Peters says, no, gird up the loins of your mind. And for both of you in your story, I read that as a change of mindset and you said how you had to be reminded of how God loves you.

To have faith in him. Um, and Tyler, you actually said you had a different mind. You had to change your mindset to get through your times of trouble. And so any one of us going through times of trouble, maybe just stop and gird up the loins of your mind and then be sober and hope because it all kind of just plays into it.

Have a different mindset. And Peter's asking us to do this. Gird up the loins of your mind, be sober and hope. And so in the next segment, we're going to see if these things actually help in a different realm. [00:33:00] I'm wondering if it works for the deceased. We'll talk about that next.

So, I, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, in light of what we're going to talk about next. And do you think the deceased still have times of trouble, or is it all rainbows and unicorns in the spirit world?

Abe Mills: I think they still have problems. Yeah, I mean, I think there's certain things that have led us to believe that you're, this, the kind of, the mind that we have here goes with us, even though we might know more.

Some of the bad habits and things like that, that we form. And so I think there's probably troubles there as well.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. So they would definitely need, and going back to what we talked about, they would need to gird up their loins of their mind and a lot of hope. There's going to need to be a lot of hope in the spirit world.

In fact, let's turn to first Peter chapter three and we're going to read some of the [00:34:00] teachings that Peter, isn't this interesting that just Peter's talking, he's about to die. Oh, by the way, let me just throw this at you. Talk about a curve ball, right? And especially for people who are being terrified into denying the Christ, I think it's awesome that Peter's like, Well, let me tell you what it's going to be like in the next life.

So, here we go. We're going to read a couple of these verses and cross reference them to Doctrine and Covenants. So we are in 1 Peter chapter 3. We're going to read 18 through 20. Tyler, can you read those for us? You

Tyler Collet: bet, 18 20. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah.

While the ark was a preparing wherein few that is eight souls were saved by

Tammy Uzelac Hall: water Okay. Now let's put a cross reference right there put [00:35:00] Doctrine and Covenants Section 138 28 because it says by which he also went and preached unto the spirits in prison We need to fix that a little bit because it says which sometime were disobedient And then he gives the example of Noah when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared.

So he's like, and he's even using what scriptures teach us as probably the most wicked time on earth when every imagination of every man's heart was evil. That's what the book of Genesis teaches us. So he uses the craziest example of the most wicked group of people. So right here, it says that Jesus went into the spirits to preach the wicked in prison, but doctrine and covenant section 38 gives us some new light and knowledge.

into what happened when Jesus went into the spirit world. In fact, in Doctrine and Covenants section 138 is President Joseph F. Smith's vision of the spirit world because he was so sad about the people that he had lost in his life and he was wondering what happened to his son and all of his loved ones.

And so he ends up getting this incredible revelation. Verse [00:36:00] 28 tells us what's going on in the spirit world. So let's go there. Abe, will you read section 138 verse 28?

Abe Mills: You got it. And I wondered at the words of Peter wherein he said that the son of God preached unto the spirits in prison who sometime were disobedient when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah.

And how it was possible for him to preach those spirits and perform the necessary labor among them in so short a time.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, so he's wondering about that. Keep going

Abe Mills: for us. And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who have rejected the truth to teach them.

Well, behold.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, sorry. Pause there. Pause there. Okay. So now, go back into 1 Peter. Go into 1 Peter chapter 4. Okay. And we're going to read, bracket off verses 1 through 6, and again, he's talking about the spirit world. We're just going to specifically look at verses 3 through 6. [00:37:00] for the

Tyler Collet: time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revelings, banquetines, and abominable idolatries, wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you.

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead? For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Now cross reference those verses, Doctrine and Covenants section 138.

And Abe, will you pick up where we left off? Verses 30. You bet. And we're just going to kind of go all over in here. It's so fun. Go ahead. 30 and 31.

Abe Mills: Okay. But behold, from among the righteous he organized his forces and appointed messengers clothed with power and authority, [00:38:00] and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men.

And thus was the gospel preached to the dead. And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the

Tammy Uzelac Hall: gospel. Okay. Now, if we continue on in these verses, specifically when it says in verse six, for this cause was the gospel preached to them that are dead.

So let's read. Exactly. The gospel that is being preached to them and the gospel is found in verse 33. I like teaching these verses so much because when I taught it as a seminary teacher, I would say, as I am teaching you right now, spirits are teaching in the spirit world this exact thing. So a reverse 33,

Abe Mills: these were taught.

Faith in God. Repentance from sin. Vicarious baptism for the remission of sins. The gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, and 34. Yeah, that's so good. [00:39:00]

Abe Mills: And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit.

There

Tammy Uzelac Hall: it is, verse 6 right there, and you just read it in section 138. Awesome. Thank you. Okay. You too. So how do Peter's teachings and Doctrine and Covenant Section 138 show that there is hope for the dead? What do we love about this doctrine? Everybody gets a

Tyler Collet: chance.

Abe Mills: Yeah. If we look at it like none of us can get to the celestial kingdom on our own, when we die, of course, we would still be progressing as we become, begin to understand.

And repent as we continue to repent and change our mindset, change our hearts as we continue to learn new things. Um, I would imagine that that process never ends because. Uh, until we are perfected in him, then we would continue to [00:40:00] repent and continue to learn and continue to grow.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Well, then why should we repent now?

Why, why? I mean, it convinced me that it's not just a good idea to live life, have so much fun and take care of it in the next life though. What if someone asked you that?

Abe Mills: Well, so, and this goes back to the sports analogy because, you know, let's say, hey, let's just, if, if it's. You know, let's just not practice this whole year and don't worry.

I'll wait till next year and I'll wait till the season starts and then I'll start working out. It's like, yeah, but everybody else is continuing to do that. So you're putting yourself in a position where it's going to be really hard. Not only that, but you think that when you walk out there, that when you start running, it's going to feel like it feels right now, but it's not going to.

You know, have you ever done that where you didn't run for a year and then you try to go run that? Yeah, i'll make it a point

Tyler Collet: never to run.

Abe Mills: There you go. Amen, brother

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, but wait no, no, no, I love this I [00:41:00] love this because I just have this thought in my mind and you can help me out with this because you guys are both Baseball guys, but in my Isn't it true that when you have like a baseball team, a major team, okay, so Tyler, you have the Cardinals, right?

And if you're a baseball player, if you can play for a major league sports team, that is like the greatest. Oh yeah, you've reached it. You've reached it, right? But what about if you aren't good enough to make that team? Isn't there a team that's a step below? Yeah, it's called AAA. Minor League. AAA. Minor League.

Okay, so I'm imagining for like baseball players, if the goal is to make it, that's what you're shooting for, right? You want the major league, and you don't want to be stuck on the AAA team. What's even below that? Like, what, what is the place? Goes

Abe Mills: down double

Tyler Collet: A. Goes down double

Abe Mills: A and single A. Yeah. And isn't, is there another one that's like kind of like backyard,

Tyler Collet: backyard wiffle ball.

That's my, that's my,

Abe Mills: that's where I have achieved. That's the extent of my, of [00:42:00] my prowess.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Many of us, many of us are still backyard wiffle balling it for sure. And I like this sports analogy because that's the goal. I think that is whole, yes, absolutely. The Lord still allows for us to continue to grow and progress in the next life.

But boy, if you can get as solid in this life as you possibly can and work those muscles, keep, yeah, keep, help me out with

Abe Mills: this. I think, yeah, I think what it does is it, it shows, you know, God, it's not what God teaches us, right? He doesn't teach us. Just wait till the end of it and then come back and do it.

What he teaches us is, you know, he teaches us right now is the time. And you know, even with all of us working hard and doing the best that we can on our end, You know, there's still, we're still going to be at different levels. We're going to have different challenges. We're going to have different lessons that we learned, different strengths, different weaknesses.

In the end, you can't learn to depend on God. You can't learn to be like Christ if you are waiting until you die to, to change and to [00:43:00] repent. So that's just, I mean, that's the, that's the commit, right? If you want to be more like Christ, um, and you understand truly what that means. You would never want to wait.

You would want to do it now. Oh,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: that's excellent. Yes, you're totally right. Why wait till you're dead to become like Jesus? So much better in this life. Okay, let's finish with, let's end this whole segment then with this quote. This is from Thomas S. Monson about work for the dead, and I thought this was great, and it just ties perfectly with what we've talked about.

Abe, can you read this quote for us, please?

Abe Mills: You bet. The Lord has never, to my knowledge, indicated that His work is confined to mortality. Rather, His work embraces eternity. I believe He is hastening His work in the spirit world. I also believe that the Lord, through His servants there, is preparing many spirits to receive the gospel.

Our job is to search out our dead. And then go to the temple and perform the sacred ordinances that will bring to those [00:44:00] beyond the veil the same opportunities we have. My brothers and sisters, I testify that the Lord will bless us as we accept and respond to this

Tammy Uzelac Hall: challenge. Thank you. And right there, when we do work for the dead, that is being Christ like.

And that word, when we read how they without us and we without them, like we all need each other. And so just get it together, get to the temple, let's do the work. And that's nothing more Christ like than bringing people to Christ. So that was such a good discussion on life and doing work for the dead.

But I asked the question, and I like this discussion, why repent now? And why don't we wait? And one of the most difficult things about this life is repenting now and coming to Christ. And so we're going to look at some wording that Peter uses to describe and maybe a mantra that we're all going to have from here on out after we read this verse of scripture.

We'll do that in the next segment.[00:45:00]

Let me give you guys a little more background for why times were so difficult to be a Christian when Peter was speaking to the people. So in AD 64, large portions of the city of Rome. Now, prominent Romans were accusing church members of starting the fire, which led to intense persecutions of Christians throughout the Roman Empire.

So Peter likely wrote his first epistle sometime after these fires to strengthen the faith of the saints and to remind them of their eternal reward. for enduring trials faithfully. Now let's go into these verses of scripture because Peter's advice, and this is probably going to be our new mantra. Go to first Peter chapter three, and we're going to read verses 11 through 14.

There's probably two mantras. Boy, I love these verses so much. First Peter chapter three. 11 through 14. Did either one of you have these verses marked? I always like to know if [00:46:00] people mark the verses that I mark.

Tyler Collet: 11 is marked, but then again I'm using Kara's Bible. . .

Tammy Uzelac Hall: You get no credit. .

Abe Mills: That's all my sister.

You get credit for Mary and her there. There you go. Thank you Abe. .

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay, , we'll all take a verse. Yes sir. Yeah, you

Abe Mills: did. That's true. We both did brother. We both did. It's good.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's each take a verse. We'll start with verse 11 and we'll go through 14 and we'll go Tyler, Abe, and then me.

Tyler Collet: Verse eleven, Let him eschew evil and do good, let him seek peace and

Abe Mills: ensue it.

For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers. But the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

Tyler Collet: But if ye suffer for righteousness sake, happy are ye, and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. Right there, [00:47:00] um, talk to me about these verses of scripture because for me, there's so many mantras in here, but I really liked in verse 11, askew evil. Now the word askew means to turn away from or avoid askew evil. Pursue peace, like that seems like a mantra we all could live by today to turn away from evil and pursue peace.

What else stood out to you in these verses? Any other ones that would be a mantra for you? You know, when

Abe Mills: I read this, it reminds me of, uh, if he's, if God is with us, who can stand against us, you know that one. Yes. And, and they made into a song, which if, if God is with us, who can stand against us, and this is what it reminds me of.

Yeah. And, and, and, because, you know. It says, um, it says, who is he that will harm you if you be followers of that, which is good. It's like, how are these, who are these people that think that they're going to be harming you? And when you think about it, there's nobody who [00:48:00] understands this. Like, you know, being blamed for something that you didn't do.

I mean, nobody understands this better than Jesus, who went through all of it. And yet, when... Uh, the ear got smote off what he say, Oh, don't worry about that, you know, like, I can just see him being like, don't do that. You don't know, you don't understand they are against us. But who are they? And, you know, people say, well, are you doing all this stuff they say?

And what did you say? You say that I am. So it's, it's, it's, this is just the way he approaches things. And it's, it's really a design for how we should approach these things because. The truth is God's in charge, and this is what this is. This is what I see in these verses. Who are these people, man? These people are nobody.

They're going to stand against us being righteous. You know what I'm saying? It's like, who are these people?

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I [00:49:00] feel like I'm sitting at Abe's kitchen table right now and I'm one of his kids. And I just came to, like you, like you said at the beginning, you sit down with your kids. And like, this is an Abe sermon where he's like, you know what guys, let's turn to 1 Peter 3, verse 13.

You got people talking bad about you. Who are they? Who are they? And you

Abe Mills: know what? We've had to do this. It happens. Yeah, we've had to do it. We've had people. You know, I mean, like, listen, listen, we're, we're on social media, our channel, Sunshine Mafia, we try to do good things. But you know, there's always going to be people that are haters, you know, there's people that send us comments and blah, blah, blah.

And it's, it's taught our kids at a young age to just know, like, Hey, that's all right. It's okay. Don't worry about it. We're doing, we're doing what's right. We live with a purpose. Our purpose isn't to make you happy. Our purpose is to share what we know. And if you listen to us, then you'll be happy. But it's not our job.

You know what I mean? And so, I think that that's helped them a [00:50:00] lot in terms of being able to deflect what people have to say.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ooh, I like that you pointed that out. Because our kids today are inundated with so much negativity and harmful comments or they just see social media and they see things they're not invited to or they don't belong to.

And it is so harmful and hurtful. And then I go back to that. Like, who is he that will harm you if you're a follower of that, which is good. Like none of this matters unless you follow Jesus Christ. That's the only persons. Instagram account you should care about is Jesus's. Exactly. And that's, that's the, like, those are the posts you should ask if you're a part of.

Like, if you see something going on, you should be like, oh, I feel bad I didn't go to, like, you know, oh, did I go to the temple? I don't know. I'm just trying to think, like, putting yourself into that situation, that's the account that

Abe Mills: matters. Exactly. When you go to Jesus's account. It says, follow back, you need to press that button, you know what I'm saying, press follow back.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, I love that, [00:51:00]

Abe Mills: so good. But no, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, if you look around, you know, what Jordan right now, he's 17 and he's, he's good at football and he's had some, some different schools look at him. And he actually received some offers from some schools who, when they found out he would be, he wanted to serve a mission, kind of like never called them back.

They didn't want to call him after they had offered, offered him scholarships. Um, to even discuss it with them. And so we asked Jordan, you know, how do you feel about that? Cause you know, that leaves them without offers. And he said, you know, he said, that's okay. He's like, I'm going to serve a mission.

That's what I'm supposed to do. And then what's supposed to happen will happen. But it's like, you think about that and it's like, who are these people? That's when you start putting those things in the right order, then everything else, it's like, it becomes secondary to, to what's going on, what you're trying to accomplish.

Tyler Collet: Well, you know, I. Kind of to go with Abe, mine's maybe a little more harsh, but [00:52:00] you know through my experiences with work and People who defy, like to defile law enforcement just because of what we do I've learned to grow thick skin, but more or less I've learned to Uh, you know, whatever haters have to say, I don't value their opinion, so it doesn't matter to me.

Mm hmm. And it's, it, uh, maybe that's the more abrasive way of what Abe is saying is, who are these people? Who are these people that, that want to talk? Their opinion, I, I don't hold any value to it, so it doesn't matter to me anyway. They can talk all they want. It's not important to me, you know? Those that, uh, I respect and admire and love, those are the opinions.

that I value and that I will seek out. Um, and of course Christ. I love how Abe threw Christ as the total example here because that's [00:53:00] exactly, in verse 11, uh, where my mind went was his suffering going up to be crucified. I mean, he had every reason in the world to hate these people. Um, and to be angry with them, but he didn't, uh, the natural man in me would be like, oh, we're gonna fight.

You know, I'm, I'm going down swinging it. If I'm going down, I'm, I'm gonna make you earn it. But, uh, that's not what he did. I mean, he allowed all of it a complete one opposite of what Natural man would do. And, uh, I, I think that's the perfect example right there. Um, of how to handle those that, you know, want to crucify and, and skew evil and hatred at you

Abe Mills: is let them.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah. Well, and remember, Peter knows. I'm about to die [00:54:00] and I'm going to be killed. I will be martyred. The savior said, that's how this, this ends. This is how this goes down. Speak using your words, Tyler. I'm not going to go down fighting. Actually, I'm not going to make anybody earn it. Like that's my, that's my lot.

And then you go to verse 14, but, and if boy, don't you just, that is powerful. But, and if you suffer for righteousness sake, happy are ye and be not afraid of their terror. Neither be troubled. That's a mouthful for someone who's about to have their life end in a martyrdom. And I

Abe Mills: would say the same thing for you, Tyler.

I also think of the people who want to come out the hardest. It was in a dire happy days, happy

Tyler Collet: days as well.

Abe Mills: Wow.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Thank you to both of you. Powerful sermon just from those four verses right there. I mean, it's, it's so, it was awesome to talk about those. And so in the next segment, then we're going to take everything we just learned right here and everything [00:55:00] we've learned so far up to this point, and we're going to pour it all in to this next discussion, which we'll talk about in the next segment.

I have been so excited to show you guys this picture. Like, this is, this is the coolest thing ever, okay? Do you know what a tapestry is? Yes. What is a tapestry, Abe?

Abe Mills: It's like they weave, uh, we sing a song about it. When I was a young ambassador at BYU. Tapestry. Anyway, but, um. Yeah, so they weave different ribbons in to create a picture of, or a design, and then a lot of times they hang it, well, you can see it in the picture, they hang it on the wall, um, or, or, or something like that, but it becomes a work of art based upon, uh, the inner weavings of these different threads.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mm. Okay, perfect description. So, [00:56:00] in our show notes, I have a picture. I have two pictures, actually, of a tapestry. It's the same tapestry. This tapestry is called the Apocalypse Tapestry. It dates back to 1377 or 1382. It is believed to be the oldest surviving woven artwork in France. Now you can see two people standing in front of it, so you can see how high it is.

But this next picture shows us how long it is. It is over 100 meters long, which is about a football

Abe Mills: field. A lot

Tammy Uzelac Hall: of weaving, a lot of weaving. Yes. Now this incredible piece, as we called it, the apocalypse tapestry, it's the entire book of revelations. in tapestry form. So you can just see, and I like how you said Abe, a lot of weaving, so much weaving.

Now I want us to think about this because if your life was a tapestry, first of all, how long do you think it would be? Or how long would you want it to be? Maybe as [00:57:00] long as a football field.

Abe Mills: I have a hard time believing they could find that much stuff in there.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Mine, mine would be an area rug probably

Abe Mills: like this picture right here represents 10 years of your life.

Yeah.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Yeah, exactly. Okay. And, and I'm thinking about like this tapestry for myself or the tap is like, what colors would you, Ooh, that's fun. What colors would you use in your tapestry or is there something specific you'd want in your tapestry? Oh, I definitely use

Abe Mills: purple purple. I don't know. Cause I like purple blue.

Yeah. That's one of my favorite colors, blue, purple, black and red. I don't know. Tyler? You

Tyler Collet: know, mine would probably consist of a lot of skulls.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Why skulls? I don't know. You've always had a thing with skulls. Like your email is skull

Tyler Collet: something. I have. Yeah. It, uh, [00:58:00] yeah. I don't know. It just.

There's this, there's this little girl on Facebook that says it's always Halloween in my soul. That's kind of how I feel. I really like Halloween and uh, I don't know, I, mine would be pulled with a lot of skulls I guess.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, that's awesome. Okay. You'd have an entire section. Yes. You and my sister for sure would have an entire section dedicated to Halloween.

For sure. Oh, yes. Yep. Yes. Okay. So I want everyone to kind of be thinking, if your life was a tapestry, how long would it be? What colors would it use, and what would it look like? I want us to have this kind of mindset as we turn to 2 Peter 1, verse 4. 2 Peter 1, verse 4. And we're going to read this verse, and Abe, can you read it for us, please?

Abe Mills: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these ye might be [00:59:00] partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Let's go back in that verse, and I want us to underline when he says that ye might be partakers of the divine nature.

Underline that. Now, Peter is going to then, in the next couple of verses, define divine nature for us by giving us so many Awesome attributes of that. But before we even dive into the attributes, we're going to connect this to a quote from Elder Hales in 2017 General Conference, and he makes this connection between tapestry and discipleship or divine nature.

Let's read this quote that he has about it.

Tyler Collet: Many people hear the word disciple and think it means only follower, but genuine discipleship is a state of being. This suggests more than studying and applying a list of individual attributes. Disciples live so that the characteristics of Christ are [01:00:00] woven into the fiber of their beings as a spiritual tapestry.

The attributes of the Savior, as we perceive them, are not a script to be followed or list to be checked off. They are interwoven characteristics, added one to another, which develop in us in interactive ways. In other words, we cannot obtain one Christ like characteristic. without also obtaining and influencing others.

As one characteristic becomes strong, so do many

Tammy Uzelac Hall: more. Thank you. Okay, let's go back into 2nd Peter. And I'm going to read verses five through eight. And as I do, I want you to underline the divine attributes that Peter talks about that we can weave into our spiritual tapestry. Here we go. Let me get my

Abe Mills: glasses.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue. And to virtue knowledge, and to [01:01:00] knowledge temperance, and to temperance patience, and to patience godliness, and to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Okay, so many characteristics or attributes, right, that we could weave into our spiritual tapestry. So I asked you to, to read these verses ahead of time and just share with me what attribute would you want to make sure is in your spiritual tapestry? Tell me why you chose that. For me, mine

Tyler Collet: would be brotherly kindness.

Tell me why I chose that one because if I'm, if I'm kind of someone, um, brotherly kindness, I don't know to me that just demonstrates a love for my neighbor. And of course, we know that's the second greatest commandment, right, is to love thy neighbor. And, uh, I think if [01:02:00] all of us can just, maybe even just one person at a time, just show some love, genuine love to...

A person, whether it's family, whether it's a friend, a relative, whatever, or a complete stranger at a grocery store, gas station, whatever. I think that, that can spread, right? And I think that the person that is shown that can feel that love, that genuine love, and maybe pass it on to one other person, and that person to one other person.

And I think if everyone could just do that. You know, the, the world would be a much kinder place in general, but that's, that's why I chose that one is brotherly kindness just helps me to remember the second great commandment. I feel like I can get number one down, uh, and number two, you know, sometimes I struggle with that.

So, uh, [01:03:00] that, that's, that's what I would want woven into mine so I can have a constant

Tammy Uzelac Hall: reminder of it. Great answer. Thank you for thinking that through Tyler. That's awesome.

Abe Mills: Yeah. Yeah. I think that, um, I think I would choose, uh, charity. I mean, brotherly kindness is one that I would choose as well, but I like charity because charity does encompass a lot of things.

And one of the things that I think, um, when you have charity and you really have that love that Christ had, uh, that Christ has for us, I feel like we can, uh, it allows us to really like. People always ask me, like, what do you think the one thing is that'll keep people out of heaven more than anything, and I always say, it's gotta be our lack, our, our, our inability to forgive others, um, and I, and I feel like charity is one of those things that will help you forgive people, and um, and have, and not have evil feelings towards that person.

You know, like Tyler was saying, you know, it's important that we, that we understand each other and it's important [01:04:00] that even when somebody is completely opposite of you, that you are able to, to reach out to them and understand. And I think that when we can do that, I think we start to build bridges.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Absolutely. I like how you said that, to build bridges. Well, as I'm looking over them, I thought, did Peter just willy nilly just jot down these attributes in some random order, or is there purpose to the order?

Abe Mills: I wondered that myself. I wondered if it was like you do one and then you can get the other. But then I was like, well, there's some of them that come later in the list that I'm better at than the ones at the beginning of the list.

And then I'm like, uh, well, yeah, I

Tammy Uzelac Hall: don't know. Or maybe you're already pretty good at the ones at the beginning of the list, which allows you.

Abe Mills: Maybe. Maybe, I don't know, I mean, I would I would have to be shown that part.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I don't, it's really striking me because as I'm reading this, like add to your faith, virtue, virtue means power or [01:05:00] strength, and then to that you add knowledge.

Knowledge is being, then once you're smart enough to understand, you can be temperate. Which means in, in control, which allows you to have control over your patients with. If you can be patient, you become more like our heavenly father and becoming more like him allows us to love and see the way he sees.

And if we can see the way he sees others, then we're more apt to be able to be more kind to them or forgive them. I don't know. Just kind of connecting this

Abe Mills: now. I don't know. I like

Tyler Collet: that. Tammy. Yeah, I

Abe Mills: really do.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I think there's, I think there's purpose in the order.

Abe Mills: It's a map. It's like a guideline. It's like, cause say like, we might say, well, you know, I'm, I'm, forget about the temperance.

I'm just gonna move on to the patience, but then it doesn't work. You know what I mean? You get me, go back and go, okay, well let's go back and focus on that. It's not like we can't focus on getting better at these things. Sometimes I think we feel like some of this stuff just kind of gonna naturally happen as we go along.

We have to actually work on. [01:06:00] We have to work on our faith, work on being diligent, all of these things. So

Tammy Uzelac Hall: yeah, in fact, in this quote, the quote says they are interwoven characteristics added one to another, which develop in us in interactive ways. Like, I think, yeah, we just, they, and then they just kind of play off of each other and they work towards each other.

So, Ooh, so good. You guys, great discussion. And thank you for thinking on the attributes that you want added to your tapestry. I think it'd be really cool to see a tapestry of all of us. Like what will that look like? What story would it tell? What part would be like, rip that part out? Like we don't need that woven in.

Hold up. Yeah, exactly. Because then it made me think, okay, so we have this beautiful tapestry. Thank you. And then we go back to this tapestry of the apocalypse. And it's really interesting because Peter has some things to say about the apocalypse. Now the apocalypse in Greek means revelation. That's where we get the name of the book revelation.

It means apocalypse, or it means to [01:07:00] uncover. And so. In the next segment, we're going to find out what Peter uncovers about the second coming of Jesus Christ, and we'll see if we're ready.

Okay. Turn with me to second Peter, and we are going to be in second Peter chapter three verses 10 through 12. And I have a picture to show you another picture. And I just want you guys to tell me what your immediate reaction would be if you came up against this. Okay.

Abe Mills: Uh, immediate reaction with anybody

Tyler Collet: because that will determine my reaction.

Why? Cause I don't have to outrun the line. I just have to outrun whoever I'm with. If

Abe Mills: I was with Tyler, I would jump behind him. Yeah,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: right. Get him Tyler, get him. Describe this picture to our listeners. This

Abe Mills: is a lion [01:08:00] roaring. It looks like he's roaring. Maybe he's yawning. Maybe I would hope that he was yawning.

You know

Tyler Collet: what, with those teeth, I don't care what he's doing. I don't want to be anywhere near it. No

Abe Mills: joke.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Ah, I love it. Okay, I want you to have this in the back of your mind because Peter talks about a lion and it's such a good verse of scripture. So think about this. Let's turn to second Peter chapter three verses 10 through 12.

I'm going to read them and have us mark some things in these verses. Okay. Here we go. Here's what Peter has to say about the second coming. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Okay, we all know that, right? A lot of heat. It's going to be like the wicked are going to be destroyed. Verse 11, seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved. What manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversations in godliness? Boy, underline [01:09:00] that. So he's asking us, how do you think you should be then when all of this happens to avoid the fire?

And then we have verse 12, looking for and hastening unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. Now I'm going to read verse 13. Nevertheless, we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Now this was so fabulous because I kept thinking about how do we look for new heavens and a new earth? How do we avoid this fervent heat? What kind of manner of people are we or should we be before he comes again? And then verse 14 is our answer. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, Be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace without spot and blameless.

How would you define to your kids? What does it mean to be without spot?

Tyler Collet: [01:10:00] Clean from

Tammy Uzelac Hall: sin. Mm. Perfect. Let's mark that and write that to the outside. Without sin. What about blameless? Cause. Listen, I can be blamed for a lot of things. What does he mean there?

Abe Mills: I think this goes back to effort. Um, you know, that's one of the things we, we focus a lot on is effort, right?

It's not so much failing as much as it is effort. If, you know, we expect you to fail at some point. Um, many, sometimes we expect you to fail many times before you ever succeed, but if you're putting in the effort. Um, then you become, uh, you become more blameless, the more effort that you put in. Oh,

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I like that.

I'm going to put effort next to that word. Oh, that's good. Okay. Now let's cross reference this verse with one of Peter's last pieces of advice. Put first Peter chapter five, verse eight, [01:11:00] first Peter chapter five, verse eight. We're going to turn back to first Peter and Abe, can you please read verse eight for

Abe Mills: us?

You bet. Be sober. Be vigilant. Be vigilant. Because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. Does that just

Tammy Uzelac Hall: give you chills?

Abe Mills: Yeah, that's, that's a way to put it.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Why do you think Paul uses this imagery? Remember, he's about to die, he's speaking to the saints if you're being threatened.

To deny the Lord and he's preparing us for a second coming. Why does he use this imagery? I think he uses

Tyler Collet: the imagery because it's so recognizable. That's why I think, you know, in looking at today, the devil doesn't even try to mask himself anymore. He just, he puts it out there.

Abe Mills: Still cunning,

Tyler Collet: of course, but, uh, you [01:12:00] know, I don't, I don't think he is, um, I don't think he needs to hide behind the bushes as much as he wants, maybe had to.

I think he's, uh, very out in the open these days in our world, definitely, uh, seeking whom he can devour one person at a time or one family at a time.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh my gosh. That is such a good point. Because. Okay. Tyler, Tyler and I, years ago with our family, my parents served a mission in Africa and we had the chance to go visit them on their mission.

It was such a good deal. So we went and we did a safari. Tyler, do you remember how hard we looked for a lion? Oh yeah. We

Tyler Collet: were really, we looked so hard. We looked For hours trying to find one and it's like,

Abe Mills: Oh, is this a big joke?

Tyler Collet: I thought they were supposed to be

Tammy Uzelac Hall: on every corner. So true. I mean, we saw [01:13:00] so many animals, so many.

And in fact, we had taken so many pictures that we got to the point where we're like, we don't need any more pictures. We just want the lion picture. That's what we all came for. And I remember them saying, the odds of you seeing a lion are very slim. Like it probably won't happen because they hide so well.

And with what you were just saying now, I'm imagining thinking of all the animals we saw, the gazelle, the kudu, the, I mean every single animal, and then the lion just sitting right there in the middle of them, doesn't even have to hide and they're not running. That is the world we live in today. Satan's just sitting right there in the middle of the field.

And all of us are like, Oh, he's my friend. He's not, he's not that scary. He's not going to hurt me.

Tyler Collet: Oh, he hasn't moved in hours.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: We're okay. Right? Like he, you're right. He doesn't. Oh, Tyler, I like that. He doesn't have to hide anymore. He is so audacious that he just sits there and we're like, Oh yeah, we're fine.

We're okay. Until we're not.

Abe Mills: Well, and so this [01:14:00] is, this is the thing is that the longer that he sits out there, you've seen him, you've looked at him, you've taken the pictures, and now you start to look around other places. You get comfortable. So you're not as aware of where he is, right? Yeah. And so, you know, you're not paying attention to what he's doing anymore.

Because when they're not around and you're looking for him, you're like really attentive and really on high alert, like, where's the lion, where's the lion, where's the lion? But then, when he's sitting out there, after you see him for a little while, They're like, yeah, that was cool, right? Yeah.

Tyler Collet: Yeah.

Definitely. You get comfortable with seeing that line there and it not attacking anybody, but unbeknownst to them, it's waiting for the right moment.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Okay. That's discussion. Just change the wording for me then. Cause now look at it again. Be sober. Be vigilant because your adversary, the devil as a roaring lion that tells us he's actively roaring.

Right. You can hear him [01:15:00] Walketh about not hideth about. So he's actually loud and he's moving about seeking. Whom he may devour like just looking at every all the choices he has because nobody has run. Ah, oh my gosh Okay, so then then Peter's words in again first Peter chapter 5 verses 5 and 6 Isn't this interesting that he actually before he even warns about the lion?

He tells you what to do so that you can defeat the lion verses 5 and 6 Tyler. Can you read that for us? Likewise

Tyler Collet: ye younger submit yourselves unto the elder Yea, all of you be subject one to another And be clothed with humility, for God resisteth the proud and giveth grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh, verse 7 too, I forgot that. I love verse 7. Oh,

Tyler Collet: casting all your care upon him, for he careth for

Tammy Uzelac Hall: you. [01:16:00] Okay, finish it up for me guys. How do those three verses help us with a roaring lion of our day?

Tyler Collet: Follow the prophet. That's what I get from it.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: I'm writing that to the side. It takes humility to follow the prophet.

Abe Mills: It does. I think the other thing it says here is that we're kind of, we're here to help each other. It says, yeah, all of you be subject one to another and be clothed with humility. So, you know, I think we talked before a little bit about purpose and, you know, when we truly understand our purpose, keeping the focus on what, what's important, then we realize that we're all together here.

Um, particularly as the body of Christ, which is something that we talked about several weeks before, but as we become the body of Christ, we understand that a purpose is to be together. And if we, if we learn to walk with each other and to work with each other and to lift each other and to save each other when we see, you know, somebody, uh, struggling and to learn to [01:17:00] reach out to other people when we are struggling, I think that, that we, we can get through this.

And face the lion knowing that we don't have to face him alone.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: So good. I'm writing down so many notes.

Tyler Collet: And you know, Abe, I, in my experience, in my work, a lot of that can be started within the home. With one's own

Abe Mills: family. Yeah. I think it's really important that you have that system in the home and feel like this is something that, that we can have a discussion about.

Right? This is something that we can lift each other through. So

Tammy Uzelac Hall: good. I added he caress for you. The lion doesn't like in verse seven. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Casting your care upon him. He careth for you. He really does. God really cares. And from that quote we started at the very beginning, he will not fail you. He just won't.

Wow. Thank you, you guys. That was a [01:18:00] great discussion of 1st and 2nd Peter. I wouldn't recommend it as much as Dr Valentine Topre would. Uh, uh, or also my name is gonna be campuses. Um, and you might, you might send it via email and I didn't complete it after all. So just saying, if you're going the wrong way.

Either send your email or you can constantly call Dr Val. And she has great advice for you. You need to get that probability right. Also, they can share that with you. Hmm.

Tyler Collet: Go for it, Abe.

Abe Mills: Well, you know, I think one of the, the real world applications that we discussed, uh, there's so many different things.

First of all, there's so many different things that we could talk about from here, whether it be, uh, temple work or social media and how that affects us and watching out for the lion in the world today. Uh, there's so many different things, which I [01:19:00] think all of these probably will be discussed at some point at my dinner table.

But, um, if I was going to pick one, I would say, as we eschew evil and pursue peace, just the important part of, of understanding who we are in this world, and being able to stand and say, who, who are they? As we follow God and we do what we're supposed to do and we follow our Savior Jesus Christ, then we can stand confident knowing that we're doing the right thing and we can receive that, that, um, that spiritual confidence.

Mm hmm. That you can't really feel anywhere else. Mm hmm. Um, that would be a thing I'd take away.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Wow. Thank you, Abe. Great takeaway. Tyler?

Tyler Collet: For me, I think mine would probably be... To see others as God sees them and [01:20:00] by doing that maybe I can, you know, offer some sort of peace to them during their season of trial because we never know what other people are going through, what kind of day they had.

And so to me, it's just, it's important to, you know, just treat everybody that you come in contact with as, as, uh, you know, see them as a child of God as you treat them. And I think I don't know. You, you definitely won't go wrong that way. Right? I mean, you'll be, uh, loving thy, thy neighbor and, uh, hopefully picking somebody up unbeknownst to you.

Maybe they needed that, that, that friendly smile, even, uh, you know, Abe was talking about effort. Something so much as a simple smile to somebody could have a, uh, an effect on them that could, you know, turn their day around. But, uh, that would be mine, to see others as [01:21:00] God sees them. And, uh... Be less quick to be judgmental because I'm, I, that's me, that's me.

I admit that, you know, I, I, that's something I need to work on, but I think if I can view others as God sees them, that'll give me more patience, more charity, uh, it's got a lot of the things that Abe touched upon earlier. So that would be my takeaway.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Great takeaway and great, great tapestry. I think your, your tapestry will be beautiful.

So thank you, Tyler. Mine went back to our first part where you, Tyler pointed out for a season, um, that nothing is permanent. Everything we're going through is, and that's why it's specifically in scriptures does say for a season. I loved that. And when we, you guys said the trial is not forever, but our faith is that whole discussion, you both just taught me that beautifully.

And so thank you. I thought that was so cool. So you guys are great. I love you both. Awesome. [01:22:00]

Tyler Collet: Thank

Abe Mills: you. Love you guys Thank you. Love you, man. You guys are amazing. Thanks to your

Tyler Collet: listeners that have to put up with Abe and I every so often.

Tammy Uzelac Hall: Oh yeah. We definitely have to put up with you too. Okay. Whatever.

Well, of course I want to know what you've learned. So if you haven't already joined our discussion group on Facebook, or if you're not following us on Instagram, You should, it is such a great place to share what you learned as well as ask questions as you're studying throughout the week. And then every week at the end of the week on a Saturday, we post a question from this episode.

So comment on the post that relates to this lesson and share your answer and your thoughts. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode on ldsliving. com slash Sunday on Monday and go there anyway. Because it's where we're going to have the links to all the references we used as well as the pictures.

You can go see them and a transcript of this whole discussion. So go check it out. The Sunday on Monday study group is a Deseret Bookshelf plus original brought to you by LDS living. It's written and hosted by [01:23:00] me, Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our fun, fabulous, and we're willing to put up with them. Study group participants are Tyler Collette and Abe Mills, and you can find more information about my friends at ldsliving.com/sundayonmonday . Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is edited and recorded by Cole Wissinger and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. And please remember you are God's favorite.