Tammy 0:00

Hi, friends, how is everyone doing today? Like, right now in this moment, how are things going? I just want you to take a minute and do sort of like a personal inventory. I want you to think about and write down a sentence or two about how you are doing right now. And in fact, if you're driving, you can just say it out loud. I want you to consider this, because Paul's message in 2 Corinthians chapters 8-13 are for those of us who maybe aren't doing so well. And maybe you feel like the tremendous load that you carry is impossible, with no rest stops in sight. I want you to believe these words from Paul. In 2 Corinthians, Paul teaches us that there are prayers being said for you. And in those prayers for you, "...their hearts will go out to you because of the surpassing grace God has given you. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift."

Welcome to the Sunday on Monday Study Group, a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living where we take the Come, Follow Me lesson for the week, and we really Dig Into the scriptures together. I'm your host, Tammy Uzelac Hall. Now if you're new to our study group, we want to make sure you know how to use this podcast. So follow the link in our description that will explain how you can best use this podcast to enhance your Come, Follow Me study just like my friend Monique Riley. Hello, Monique. You know what, Monique? You do such a great job of contributing to our Facebook page and other people's posts. So thank you and hello.

Tammy W 1:25

Okay, now another awesome thing about our study group is each week we're joined by two of my friends and it's always a little bit different. And today I have two friends who've been on but not together. And I'm super duper excited about this. We have Tammy Weaver and Becky Alder. Hello, ladies.

Becky 1:39

Hello.

Tammy W 1:40

Hello.

Tammy 1:41

Okay, so we're counting the years. I mean, we've all known each other collectively for 11 years. Tammy and I have known each other for 17. We were joking, but I just celebrated my 17th wedding anniversary, but really it's also my friend anniversary with Tammy because we met when I got married. She's my backyard neighbor. And I just love how you said, "We're so close that you were on my Wi Fi.

Tammy W 2:01

I was, at the beginning of this Backyard Besties it's been, it's awesome.

Tammy 2:05

For sure. Oh I like that, Backyard Besties. That's exactly what we are. And then we've gotten to know Becky through being in the ward. And you two arCike Girls camp extraordinaires. You guys have done the time.

Becky 2:16

We have.

Tammy 2:18

How did it go this year?

Becky 2:20

Lots of cold, lots of rain, lots of lightning, but we survived.

Tammy W 2:24

Yes. And Glory affectionately called Becky "Sister Becky" the whole week and it kind of stuck. So Sister Becky has earned her sainthood for being Girls Camp Director for two years in a row. She's, yeah, our fearless leader.

Becky 2:41

Love those girls.

Tammy 2:42

My husband actually said that when he got back. He said, "Listen, if there's anyone that's earned her stripes, going straight to Celestial kingdom, it's Becky Alder. I go, That's true. He goes, "Cuz after that Girls Camp? Whoo!" So all my Girls Camp leaders out there, you know what we're talking about?

Becky 2:57

Yes, bless you all.

Tammy 3:00

Although it is my favorite calling, it'd be fun if the three of us could do it together.

Becky 3:03

Yeah

Tammy 3:04

For anybody out there listening that knows my bishop, just put a plug in. Because it's, I love Girls Camp. That would be fun. Okay, and so these two, they've been on before. Like, gosh, I think Tammy three years ago and Becky, you were on last year?

Becky 3:19

Yeah, last year and the year before.

Tammy 3:23

Okay, but you've never been together. So this will be really fun too. It really will be like we're sitting around each other's kitchen table, because we do it often, so this will be so much fun. K, if you want to know more about my guests, you can just find their bios and their pictures in our show notes which are found at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. So you guys get ready. I think 2 Corinthians 8-13 are some of the best verses of scripture; I know, I always say that. Last week was intense and awesome but so is this week. So grab your scriptures, your scripture journals and something to mark your Scriptures with and Let's Dig In.

Okay, you two. So I've asked every guest who's come on, I always say this little joke that if Paul saw the church today we'd all be getting a letter. And so I want to know what specifically stood out to you from this part of Paul's letter to the Corinthians?

Becky 4:05

I think the thing that stood out to me the most is the doing. In verse 11, in chapter 8:11 it talks about performing the doing and that just makes me think of go and do, you know. And that is sometimes the hardest part about being a disciple of Christ is going and doing the things and because it takes time. So that really stood out to me.

Tammy 4:34

Oh, gosh, I like that. I'm writing that down. The doing. You're right and there's a lot of doing in these verses from Paul.

Becky 4:40

Yes.

Tammy 4:42

Great insight. Okay, what about you Tammy?

Tammy W 4:44

Well, for me what stuck out over and over was the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and how He gave us all, for us to then gain all or to be all in, you know. So, I love, I love the concept of grace. And it's throughout all of these chapters. But 8:9, "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."

Tammy 5:23

Why did you mark that one?

Tammy W 5:24

When I think of how the Savior died, and how it was the the worst of the worst death. You know, we've been studying the New Testament this year, and we got to watch Him suffer in the Garden and be beaten and ridiculed and mocked. And that is basically the lowest of the low or the poor. And because of that we become rich, or we have the Atonement for us. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, He gave that to us. And it was the lowest and the worst death that you can imagine. And that was for us to be rich, if you will. So I think that's why that scripture uses those concepts of being rich and poor.

Tammy 6:22

May I ask a follow up question?

Becky 6:22

Yeah

Tammy 6:22

In your lifetime, in all your years you've been alive, when have you felt the most rich because of the Savior's willingness to be poor? Was there a time where you felt like He just gave you more than you even could have imagined? Or knew you needed?

Tammy W 6:41

Well, absolutely. I mean, I feel that just with my growing, beautiful family, I look around all the time at how amazing and beautiful they are and how blessed we are. And, you know, my daughter Joy passed away, it's been 15 years. And that was basically the lowest of lows for me. And I thought that nothing could, will I ever feel anything but sorrow? And I've felt so much joy since then. And I see the blessings and this beautiful family of ours, and now we're growing two grandsons. And just, we're, it's just incredible. I feel so blessed. And I feel like that is through the grace of the Savior to, you know I see all the beauty and love in this wonderful family of mine.

Tammy 7:55

Yeah. Thank you, Tammy. And it makes me go back to how we started this idea. Cuz I like connecting it to what you said, Becky, then in the doing of it. And we were there with Tammy through this experience and watching her be so sorrowful. And we've heard her story throughout all these years and she's continued to do. And then we look at you, Becky, and we watch you through your whole life experience. And you've continued to do when you've been in these moments where when I would say to you, How are things really going? Our tendency is to be like, Fine, I'm fine, life's fine.

Becky 8:26

Right?

Tammy 8:26

I'm good. But really, no one's ever really fine. And I think everyone's carrying a burden. And this thought which comes from 2 Corinthians 9:14 and 15 is where Paul says that people are praying for you. And I like how the NIV interpreted that. And that's what I put in was the NIV, that "Their hearts will go out to you because of the surpassing grace God has given you." And then "Thanks be to God for this incredible gift of grace." And that's people doing, praying on our behalf and helping us. And so I just, I love this idea. This is exactly what Paul is talking about. He's talking about grace, he's talking about the doing and what we can do for people and what they can do in turn for us. So this is gonna be a great discussion today of these verses, and I'm looking forward to your insights and your own personal stories. So thank you both for sharing that. Okay, so in the next segment, then, we're going to jump into one of the first ways that we can do.

Segment 2 9:31

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Tammy 9:31

Okay, ladies, given your vast history of serving in different various positions within the church, how do members of the Church respond when we find out that there is someone in need, specifically within your ward boundaries, but not even then if it was anyone you knew who absolutely needed help? What do you do? Ready, set, go.

Tammy W 9:54

Whatever they need, you know, whether it's groceries, clothes. We've had many experiences of helping families in need. At Christmas time we have adopted families that need groceries, basic things. Always I had an opportunity to actually Beck could be better at answering this as a former Relief Society president, but I had an opportunity when we lived in California to go with a Relief Society president to a home, and I was the visiting teacher at the time. And so the visiting or the Relief Society President asked me to accompany. It was the first time in my life that I had ever seen a family that needed food. And honestly, it was very, it was a pretty neat experience for me to realize how blessed I am, at least with temporal things. And it was, I feel very blessed that I have not had to worry about feeding my family.

Tammy 11:05

Yeah. Becky, put your Relief Society president skills in action. You just got word from a bishop that said, Listen, there's an entire ward who's super poor, they need our help. Go. What are you doing? How do you do that?

Becky 11:19

Well, I think definitely you just send out, like, ask for help, right? I mean, we had a man from our ward who moved into his own apartment, this was just a couple years ago. And like, I sent out a few emails or texts to people and just said, Hey, like, he has nothing. He needs a bed, he needs a table, he needs pots and pans and basic things like that. And I had so many people that were bringing just bags, like bedding that they had or and towels and dish towels. And somebody said, I'll buy a small table from IKEA, and somebody had a mattress, and somebody had an old couch. And so there was a lot of people who just had items that they definitely could give to somebody else. So if it was a whole ward, you would definitely have to enlist a larger amount of people to help. And, and people will step up if they know there's need. People step up when people find what they can give, and they give And whether it's just a couple of dish towels, or whether it's a couch. Like both are needed and people give.

Tammy 12:43

I like how you said people will give, because how confident are you that our ward would give?

Becky 12:49

Oh, I know 100% that if a call went out our ward would rally and there would be truckloads of things that could be sent to another ward that needed it.

Tammy 13:01

And it seems to be universal among all saints, I think. My experience at every ward I've ever been in: singles wards, family wards. When the rally call goes out, we are on top of it. What were you gonna say Tam?

Tammy W 13:12

Well, I was just gonna say that recently we had a member of our ward that needed a lot, had an injury. And our ward stepped up and is continuing to step up. And it's not just physical things. Like we did. The Young Women, Young Men cleaned his house. And we got groceries in there and the physical things that he needed. But I still see our neighbor walking with him every day. Like our ward, we're, Becky and our family, we're feeding the goats and chickens and watering them. The boys went and checked the water today because it's been so hot. But like, we come, we do, we step up.

Tammy 13:59

They even needed men, because it was a single man, they needed men just to sit with him around the clock.

Tammy W 14:05

Right.

Tammy 14:05

Like I couldn't, my husband signed up for a six-hour shift, just sat there in the house while this guy was resting. And yeah, it was a great experience. So thank you for bringing that experience up. The reason why I wanted us to talk about this and get this idea in mind is what we've just said, like the saints universally across the board. When the cry goes out, they gather and they help. And that's the message that Paul is trying to teach right here in 2 Corinthians chapter 8. He's talking about the saints in Jerusalem, and look at 8:2. He uses a way to describe how poor they are. Becky, can you see what that is? How poor are they?

Becky 14:41

Their poverty, I mean, they're in deep poverty.

Tammy 14:44

Yes, underline that, 'in deep poverty.' He's saying, listen. Saints in Macedonia helped out, but Corinthians, come on. Like, this is your thing. You know how to help. So we're gonna go to 2 Corinthians chapter 8 and I want you to bracket off verses is 8-14. This is Paul's speech on service. It's so good, even title it that: "Paul's speech on service," and why he wants the Corinthians to give. Now I like how he started out in verse 8. He says, "I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love."

Now, let me tell you what that really says. I love using the NIV, the New International Version for this whole dialogue right here. It really opened my eyes to what Paul was saying, because verse 8 in the NIV says, 'Listen, I don't command you.' I think that's great. 'I don't command you. But I want you to test the sincerity of your heart.' That's what he's saying, I want you to test the sincerity of your heart, how willing are you to give. And then he comes in with verse 9. And Tammy read that for us; you already have once before but read it again.

Tammy W 15:50

"For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes, he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."

Tammy 16:01

We've discussed that. And I like it. Because if that's not enough for you to give, all right, let me give you some more information. Becky, go for it. Verse 10.

Becky 16:09

"And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago."

Tammy 16:20

Now at that and where it says, "but also to be forward a year ago," he's saying, listen, last year you did this. Like he knows the Corinthians are capable of service, they've done it before. So he's reminding them a year ago, last year, you were very giving. So I just want you to do it again. And verse 11 says, "Now therefore, perform the doing of it;" He's basically saying, Look, finish the work that you started a year ago. Keep giving. That's what that means when it says, "Now therefore perform the doing of it"," which just goes back to what you said, Becky. You pointed that out, the doing. He's saying, Go finish the work that you started, that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which you have. Okay. Now verse 12, go ahead Tammy.

Tammy W 17:00

"For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

Tammy 17:11

Becky hit it.

"For I mean, not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:"

Now that's important. He's saying, Listen, I'm not talking about giving everything so that it becomes a burden for you. That's not what we're asking. I want you to give, and then he gives us this verse in 14: "But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:" Okay, I love this verse so much - I have to tell you why. There's one time in my life where I was in deep poverty. I was single, and I was trying to make ends meet. I was living in my grandparents' basement, and I had these bills that I was trying to pay, I was also trying to go to grad school. And there's just, I was trying to get out of debt from my undergrad. Now I'm in grad school, and I can remember coming home one night, and something happened with my car. And I took it in to find out what needed to be fixed and it was $100 fix. $100! And I sobbed because I did not have $100, which at the time may have been a million, it was the same to me.

And I remember I drove home, and I came in and my grandparents were like, Hey, how was your day? I usually checked in with them. And I sat down, I just started crying. And my grandpa said, What's wrong? Why are you crying? I said, and I told him what happened. I'm like, I just, I have to fix my car. It's gonna cost me $100. I don't have $100. I'm just poor right now, I just don't have any money. Not expecting my grandfather to give me a dime. That wasn't his way. He's, my grandfather was a man from the depression. The story he always shared from the depression was the time he had to go to the butcher and beg the butcher for some bacon for his family. And he agreed with the butcher that he would get it on loan, and that he would pay the man back within a week. And my grandpa said, 'That happened to me once and I vowed I would never do that again.'

And he thrived in the business world; he was so wealthy. And everybody came to him for information on how to, what do I do with my money? Well, I mean, he just was brilliant. And he also would loan people money, but he always charged you interest because he wanted to teach you the ways of the world. Like nobody gets money for free, but it would be a really low interest. So if grandkids went to him, he paid a little interest. So I never expected that he would give me money. I was just crying, I didn't have $100. And he looked at me, pulled his wallet out and handed me $100 bill. And then I just started crying even more, because I think of this verse right here that we were never going to be equal in our lifetime ever. But this idea of equality. It changed for me like right here. 'But by an equality that now at this time of your abundance' - my grandfather's abundance - 'may be a supply for my want; that my abundance may also be a supply for your want.'

I just think it's interesting how we can then, I, in my mind, I'm like you pay it forward. We don't have to be equal in all things. But this verse is talking about an equality of opportunity to satisfy people's wants and needs, not being equal in things. And my grandpa helped me and taught me one of the best life lessons ever. Which is that if you have, give.And I think that's what Paul's teaching in this message right here is this idea. He says, I like how in verse 10, I give my advice, like, here's what I think you should do, just give, and everything's going to be better. And I like how, as members of the church, we do that well. We just give. Not so that we're equal equal, but so that we are equal as far as needs and wants, right? Is that kind of how you're interpreting it?

Tammy W 20:42

I look at it as sometimes it's your turn and sometimes it's mine. Because it's, there's times and, we've all had them where, when I had the babies, or when the death of my daughter, or like the people bring in the meals, and people did so much for me, and, and it was much needed and wanted and loved. But also kind of like, I'm fine. Sometimes I'll be like, I'm fine, I'm fine. But and so being able to accept that and do that. And then of course, when I hear of somebody that needs something, I'm ready, I want to do it, I want to be first in line to sign up to take the meals in, or do the stuff because it's, it's not that we're equal. But sometimes it's your turn, and sometimes it's mine.

Tammy 21:34

Oh, I love that. I wrote that in my scriptures. That is awesome way to interpret verse 14.

Becky 21:38

The thing that I like about 14 is that I think, I mean, obviously, he is talking about items, like, you know, like provisions. But when I, when I read it and I read my abundance can help someone else and someone else's abundance can help me, I think it's not just talking about provisions. But somebody's testimony can help me and my testimony can help someone else. Or someone's knowledge of the scriptures or a gospel topic can help me and then I might have a different knowledge that will help someone else. So there's lots of different ways that that works, might that I might be able to give more time going and visiting people around the ward right now, but later maybe somebody will be visiting me if I need something or I don't have the time. So you know, it is, it really just goes back and forth that everybody can share something. And that's why we gather together as a church because we need each other to help lift and support and to get where we need to go.

Tammy 22:48

Oh, fabulous, Becky. Thank you for your interpretation of that, both of you, great interpretations of that verse. So in the next segment, then we're going to continue this discussion of giving. And we're going to find out different ways we can give and how the Lord feels about givers. We'll do that next.

Segment 3 23:02

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Tammy 23:13

So in 2 Corinthians chapter 9. Paul is continuing his discourse on helping the poor and the needy. So in 2 Corinthians chapter 9, let's turn there. He gives this really awesome analogy. And I've been so excited for this. I asked Becky, to teach us about what he is, like what the point of this analogy is. And we're just going to study verses 6-13 right now. Becky is a Master gardener, literally. Like she took the Master Gardening class, became a Master gardener, did everything. Like I don't say she's just a good gardener, she really does have a degree in Master gardening. And so I said, Becky, I want you to teach us what this analogy means and why Paul's using it. So we're going to be in 2 Corinthians 9:6. All right, sister, hit it.

Becky 23:57

Okay, so I don't really consider myself a master. I did take the class in 2022 and did all my volunteering. So I learned a lot but I have been gardening for a long time. And I really just love, love, love it. So in chapter 9 Corinthians, verse, 2 Corinthians 9:6 it says, "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully." So when planning a food garden - let's say food garden because you usually are - hours harvesting food. You don't really harvest flowers the same. When planning and growing a food garden.Ttere's a lot of work that comes before you can harvest and eat that yummy food. So you have to plan what to grow and where to grow it and prepare the area which is this soil, making sure the soil has the right nutrients in it, making sure that it is going to be watered correctly with whatever you're watering - your sprinklers or your drip line or your hose or whatever. Planning and Preparing the area.

Planting at the right time for your area, and then weeding through the summer and checking for bugs. Something that illustrates this verse so well that I've thought about in the last little bit, is in my garden, I don't have a humongous food garden, it might be 15 by 20 feet. And I plant a lot of things in there because I like to grow a lot of things and I have peas in there. But I don't grow enough peas to like fill a whole bowl. So I have a fence that the peas grow up. And in the spring, I plant the peas underneath this fence. And then when they start producing peas, it's kind of like I go out and I pick, you know, three or four pea pods just to kind of munch on them while I'm out there in the garden. So it's just like my little snack.

And, but if you, so that would be sowing sparingly. I put out my my one row of peas and it's very sparingly. So if I wanted to sow something bountifully and if I had the space, I would plant a row of peas. And a week later I would plant another row of peas, and a week later I would plant another row of peas. And you would do that for several weeks. And then the harvest would continue for several weeks. And then right now we're in the heat of the summer and the peas are done. So you would rip them up out of the ground. And in a couple of weeks, you can start planting for fall. And you would do the same thing of planting a row and then waiting a week, planting another row. And that way your harvest is bountiful.

And when you go on to the next two verses, verse 7 says, "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And I love that it says every every man, every man, for what is in his heart can give. Because this verse is just really, everyone is gonna give differently, everyone has a different amount of time to give, everyone has a different amount of money financially to give. Everyone has something different. And even in giving, some are gonna give sparingly, because that's all they can give. And some are gonna be able to give bountifully because that's what they can give. And both are good. And both are accepted and accepted by God and accepted by other people and they're going to uplift other people. So giving what you can give.

Tammy 28:12

Well, what I thought of Becky, was when you were telling, this is what I wrote down, when you said, When you plant sparingly, you do it once. But when you plant bountifully, you do it the next week, and then the next week, and then the next week. That's how you keep your crops going. So I thought of, well, people who sow sparingly, maybe this is saying they just do it one time. Like just once and then I'm done. And we don't believe as members of the Church of Jesus Christ, we're not a "one and done" kind of people. Like we are, and we know this. Once you do, you just got done taking care of someone that week and you think okay, everything's good. If you're Relief Society president, the next week is someone else who needs your help. And we're constantly planting another row, another row, and planting bountifully. And we do it together. So, and I love how in 7, "God loveth a cheerful giver." Is it always? Are we always cheerful when we give though?

Becky 29:07

No. It takes time to get to the point in your life where you can be cheerful and sometimes you're not as cheerful when you're giving service and sometimes you are and your whole heart is in it. And sometimes it depends on what you're doing. But yes, it's hard sometimes.

Tammy 29:29

Yeah, well, okay, I want us to come back to that question, because Tammy and I are much different givers. And we've had this conversation before when it's time to give someone a dinner in our ward. I am like, Okay, hi. What's your order for Chick fil-A? or what pizza can I pick up and bring to you to cook? I'm, that is how I give when people have meals. Tammy, how do you do it?

Tammy W 29:55

Well, people would love a home-cooked meal and so

Tammy 29:59

That is your love language, because you're such a good cook!

Tammy W 30:03

Thank you. I like to bring a lot of food that's home-cooked. And really, really, it's, I love it, you're right. I want to gather the people, I want to love them, I want to feed them, I want to bring them in. Can I tell a story about a cheerful giver?

Tammy 30:22

Yes, please.

Tammy W 30:24

So when I think of a cheerful giver, I think of this woman in our ward. Her name is Paula Price. And

Tammy 30:32

Hear, hear!

Tammy W 30:32

A few years ago, I had, my house was being remodeled - dust everywhere. I had a child graduating from high school - this is all within the same week - and a daughter getting married. And other things:- end of school year. Just, like I was carrying a huge weight. And people were asking me what they could do to help. Tammy, master, helping with the wedding. Just thank you, everybody's doing everything they could do. And I had borrowed some things from a member of our ward. And it was these burlap kind of table runners. And I don't know very much I can cook a great meal but I do not know very much about sewing and material and anything. But Paula Price is a master and I got these tablecloths, and they were table runners, and a few of them were very wrinkled, like they had been washed. And I didn't want to ruin them because they belong to this other woman. And I didn't know what to do.

So I texted Paula and I said, Tell me about burlap. Can I iron it? And she texted back something like, If it's a certain kind of burlap, you probably can, but maybe to be safe you might want to put a towel over it or whatever. And I was like, Okay. So now I know, like in order to not ruin it, okay, I'll get to it. But Paula showed up at my doorstep and said, I'm here for the burlap. And I was like, No, I can do it. I, and she's looking at me like, 'You have high school graduation today. One of my kids was getting their braces off. I mean, it was like one of those days. And she's like, Stop arguing with me. I'm here for the burlap. And she took it and she ironed it and had it perfect. She knew exactly what to do. And that was a way to take something off my plate. And she has continued to do that over and over for me. But the point is like, instead of asking me, What can I do to help you and letting me argue, oh, no, I'm good. I'm good. She saw a need and showed up. And she showed up. And she took it, she did it. And she brought it back.

And that has always settled with me as just the sweetest thing she could do for me. And she is a great example of a cheerful giver. And I want to be like that. Sometimes I do it a little more grudgingly, or, I think when you have had a tragedy in your family or something. You feel really wanting to give back. And so I think that's part of being cheerful. Like, Here I am to help, but sometimes we don't know what they need. And so it's like, show up, do it. Grab that burlap and iron it for somebody.

Tammy 33:18

Tam! Ah, okay. That was such a good story. And just just to show up, I love how you said that. And listen, just showing up can be daunting. And sometimes we even talk ourselves out of it, because we get these thoughts. And we're like, is that me? Or is that the Holy Ghost? Listen, people, any prompting that is a good thought, a thought for good, that's the Holy Ghost. We learned that in Doctrine and Covenants 11:12, so just do it. And that's what Paula did. Like she followed through on a prompting. It's how we started, she just went and did, go and do. So, that was great. Tam. And I like this idea that when we give,in whatever measure we give, and I'm so grateful Becky that you shared that because with that reaping sparingly part, if all you can give is a little bit, it's still enough. And I like that because then when we give, look at verse 8, and this continued discussion, Becky, will you read verse 8.

Becky 34:11

yes. "And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:"

How do both of you translate that verse?

Well, I think we definitely get blessings. It's talking about grace coming towards us. And I think anytime you're serving somebody, you always come away from service feeling happier and better and glad you did it and glad you were there to help. And I think that's part of God's grace is seeing, you did a good thing and you're being blessed for doing this thing.

Tammy 34:54

Yeah

Tammy W 34:56

Yeah, I agree. I feel like when you serve somebody you get so much more out of them. And especially like it with this idea of ministering. Sometimes I call 'em 'walk and talk.' Like I will, I'll see somebody or call somebody, like, Hey, let's go for a walk. Like, tell me all of your things. And it's just kind of like a way to connect, because I think every person wants to connect. We want to feel love and be loved and be listened to. And so I feel like that's kind of God's grace and that just by loving people, listening, then we are sharing and doing good works.

Tammy 35:43

I almost feel like Paul is saying to us, because He gives verses 8-13 after he says God loveth a cheerful giver. And I know when we all read that we were like, and even Becky, I love that you said it's not always, you're not always cheerful when you give. Sometimes there's like, it's stressful, and there's a lot going on. And I almost feel like verses 8-13, where Paul's saying, he's like, Listen, God loveth a cheerful giver. But if you're not that cheerful, you will be when it's over. Like, that's what he's saying. Like, you're still going to be blessed either way, so you might as well be happy about it, versus miserable.

And then I think he goes on by saying, and I just love these verses, verse 10. And it goes again, with your word 'ministering' Tammy, "He that Ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, to increase the fruits of your righteousness." Like everybody is blessed by this giving. So just be happy. Or try to at least, I don't know, I just, it kind of changes your context of being a cheerful giver. And verse 11, "Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God." And then if you continue on, it talks about how there's people praying for you, praying for your happiness and your goodness. So just know that. God loveth a cheerful giver. So my question to you is, how do we learn how to do that? Or what is your advice, if you had a kid who was not cheerful?

Becky 37:04

I think it just takes practice really. Well like most things in life, I think the more that you kind of get your heart and your head into a mindset of service and doing things for others. And obviously, you have to make sure your own self and your own family are taken care of and their needs are taken care of so you don't just leave them high and dry while you're going and helping others. So it's a balance. If you have young children or you're in a hard time of life, juggling a job and home life and everything, but I think it does just kind of take some practice. And the more and more you do it, I really think that your heart just is changed towards people and you find the love for people. And that's where the joy comes in. When there's love there, when you love the other person that you're serving, it's easy to be joyful and cheerful about it because you have this relationship with them. So it's a lot easier the more you do it.

Amen. Anything you want to add Tam?

Tammy W 38:19

Well, yes, I agree. Sometimes, it's easy to serve those you love. Like, my circle, the people in my circle, where if they need something, I'm there. You need a meal, I'm there. You need a hug, you need a talk, I'm there. But, sometimes if,,,Well, first of all, you have to be close enough to know their needs. And so there's this idea of being close and being listening and knowing things that that you can do to help. But as far as this idea of, prayer - and I love verse 15 - where it says Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift." I think we need to be grateful. And I think if we teach our children let's be grateful for all the things that we have, we are so blessed. And there's people in this world that are not as blessed as us. And so those experiences of Tammy, your family is a great example of helping the homeless here in Salt Lake City and we've done neighborhood, you guys have gotten kind of roused us all. We feed them on the holidays and do a lot of service.

And it's kind of reminding, reminding our children and our families to be grateful for what we have. And there are people out there that don't have that and we need to share and give back and be grateful to God for all the things that we have and all of our many blessings.

Tammy 39:52

Amen. And I like that again. At the end we'll read that, Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift." That was beautiful. So thank you. Thank you, both of you for your thoughts on that. And Becky, excellent job Master Gardener. That was fun. I really like that.

Tammy W 40:07

My garden is all weeds. It's all weeds.

Becky 40:10

I'll come weed it for you.

Tammy 40:11

You come and weed it, there you go. She needs it. Just do it. That's awesome. Okay, so in the next segment, Paul continues on with this discussion. And I really like this next one, because it's going to get us into the mind of not only are we deeding to do service, but there's something else important that he needs us to do. We're gonna find out what that is next.

Segment 4 40:23

.....

Tammy 40:39

All right, so this is a fun fact. Between the three of us we have 16 children. Now. Wow, you two. Isn't that fun? That's a lot of kids. Now, I want to know this: with all your years of kidding, do you have any experience with building forts?

Tammy W 40:53

Oh, absolutely.

Tammy 40:54

I mean, you guys have boys. We built forts here at the girl house. But what's it like when you build a fort with boys? What do you need? How do you build a good fort?

Becky 41:05

Oh, we use, we have, we've had a ping pong table. And so they use the ping pong table for the basic outline of the fort and blankets all around and lots of pillows. And you got to find some little gadgets to clip the blankets together and weights on top so that the blankets don't fall off. Lots of supplies.

Tammy W 41:32

Yeah, at our house, if we ever got like a fridge or something, we had to save the boxes, right, so we can do some pretty good. But I have older - my oldest is 27, my youngest is 9, so I have this huge gap. So the fun forts are when the older kids would build them for the younger kids. And there was a time when they did an obstacle course in our basement, and they set up all the chairs, and then you had to crawl through all of the things. I'm sure that your girls got to come and experience that.

Tammy 42:05

I remember that, that was 'Disneyland 2.0.' Right. At the Weaver house, yeah

Tammy W 42:09

The basements always full. Tthat was fun having older kids and younger kids at the same time because they made it really fun for the littles for sure.

Tammy 42:16

I want you to be thinking about these forts. Because if I was teaching this lesson in Seminary, the first thing I'd make my students do is we would build a fort. We would turn our classroom into a fort so we could study these verses that Paul is teaching in 2 Corinthians chapter 10. Because a fort is what protects. And right here, Paul, it's really interesting that this is a part where his whole vocabulary changes in the way that he's been delivering his addresses. And he dives into warfare and fighting against an enemy. And so we're going to look at some wording and we're going to really kind of - get something to write in your scriptures - because verses 3-7 in 2 Corinthians chapter 10 is all about warfare. And I would make us sit in the fort, and we would read these verses as Paul is teaching us about a war that every single one of us are in the middle of right now. So kind of imagine yourself in a fort, have it be dark. I'd turn the lights out. I'd have a flashlight on my face. I'd try to make it scary. And we would read these verses. So here we go. And we're gonna mark it up like it's an institute class.

Okay. Verse 3 says, "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:" So right here he's saying, and I like the NIV version of this verse. It says, "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does." He's saying we are fighting sin. Or he's also saying the work of the ministry, being a follower of Christ, is spiritual warfare. So think of the wars, you know, that's not what we're fighting. It's not a physical war. So put down your swords and your guns. We are in a spiritual war right now. And then verse 4, he says, "For the weapons of our warfare", underline that - "the weapons of our warfare are not carnal." That means they're not physical, so what we just said, put down your guns and your swords. "....but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds."

Now underline, "pulling down of strong holds." Paul is speaking about right here, he says he's leading an attack on the strong defenses of the powers of eIvil. I mean, can you imagine being in a fort and it's all dark and there's a flashlight on my face and I say that . "Against the powers of evil." That is what we're going to pull down. And Paul is asking all of us listening to be a part of this war. He is saying, I want you engaged. I want you to get ready. I mean, just imagine right now, pulling down of strongholds. What does that imply to you when you hear that?

Becky 44:45

Well, that makes me think of like, is it like saying, talking about how like Satan is trying to pull down the spiritual, the religious strongholds? Um, that's what it makes me think of. Like, we definitely have, strong, people are strong things in our church and Satan is trying to pull those down so that we will not, as a righteous people, be strong through God.

Tammy 45:21

Oh, okay. So thinking about this, then, go back to that verse. He says, "...but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds." So switch it. Satan thinks he's a stronghold, and we are going to pull HIM down.

Okay, so

Yes. Through God, we are going to have the ability to pull down the strongholds of evil. And then he tells us what they are. So now he's like, Okay, so here's what you're going to watch for and what these attacks are going to look like. So here we go. Verse 5. "Casting down imaginations," Now highlight the word imaginations. In Greek, it means 'thoughts.' This is what pulling down strongholds really looks like in our world today. We're going to first cast down thoughts. "and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God," Okay, right there, do you get a little bit of chills? I mean, every thought, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. The next thing is, "bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience to Christ;" Isn't that interesting, bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. But then verse 6 connects it. So, "And having in a readiness" is Paul's way of saying 'and get ready, get ready "to revenge all disobedience." Now, underline the word revenge. In Greek, it's actually the word 'avenge'. And one of the ways it's interpreted is to excommunicate, to get rid of. So he's saying, and get ready to get rid of all disobedience.

But I love this next part. "...when your obedience is fulfilled." And the way that's translated is 'when you have been obedient first.' So he's like, I need you to be committed first before we can do any of this. And then 7, "Do ye look upon the things after the outward appearance?" Now this is interesting because Paul's saying to them, 'Look, are you a person that judges people on the outward appearance, because you guys know me. And you know how people have viewed me. I wasn't a very good man. I was pretty awful.' And in fact, he has been despised in the eyes of some, so he's like, 'I hope you don't look on the outward appearance.' And then he says, "If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again." Now circle 'again', and highlight it because in Greek it doesn't mean 'again', it means 'seriously.' So he says, (Think this seriously that sorry, one more time.)

"If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this seriously that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's." Okay, now, knowing this, you're sitting in your fort, your captain's has just given you all of this information about the war, you're going to fight. And the charge is, are you Christ's? What's that rallying cry really saying? What is this, what is your big Captain want to know before you go out and fight?

Becky 48:19

Are you willing to follow Jesus?

Tammy 48:24

Yep.

Tammy W 48:25

Are you willing to be obedient to the letter of the law, every bit of obedient, casting out all disobedience?

Tammy 48:35

Ooh, I like that.

Tammy W 48:36

Sometimes I like to obey the things I want to obey. But not everything.

Tammy 48:44

Yeah, like spirit of the law is a lot more convenient than letter of the law,

Tammy W 48:47

Right, right.

Tammy 48:48

For sure. So I want you to do this. This is the last thing we're going to do with these verses. Okay. So now it's your opportunity. You're going to teach these verses to your little kids. We also have littles. Becky and I's youngest are the same age and Tammy has one that is nine. Okay, so now, you need to apply these verses to the world we live in right now. How do you teach this to your children? Social media, television, everything going on around them: music, friends, things, that just their world they live in. How do these verses apply?

Becky 49:21

I think that to teach this kind of spiritual war, right, that's really what it is, is becoming a warrior for Jesus in a spiritual way. I think where it talks about removing or casting down thoughts that are against God and being able to avenge the disobedience But that takes standing up. So I think to teach this, I mean, it obviously depends on how young your children are. But everything from God is good and I think it's, it's not hard for even young children to look at things on the TV or on the radio, or driving down the street and billboards or whatever. I think it's not hard for them to be like, that's not good, or this is not good. And teaching them at a young age to be able to say, It's okay to walk out of a movie, or it's okay to switch channels, or it's okay to turn off the radio. If there is something that your spirit is being told, this doesn't feel good, this doesn't feel like it's from God and this isn't uplifting. I think it's kind of starting there and helping them realize the good and the bad. And I think that's where you have to start is helping them realize that, and then make the action or take the action to be able to do something to walk away from it.

Tammy 51:20

That's a great example, especially that 'casting down imaginations.' So thank you, Becky, great answer. What about you, Tam?

Tammy W 51:26

Well, I think when in our family, we're kind of a little soccer family. And it's like, what team are we on? We're a team. Satan is our opponent. He is waging this war. He's trying to break down the family, he's trying to make bad things look good. And here we are, what are we going to do? And so this idea of like, we're on Team Jesus. We're not going to judge others, we're not going to look on outward appearance, but we are going to serve. We're going to fight, we're going to go all-in on Jesus Christ and here's the way that we have to do it. We have to, we have to talk to people, we have to communicate, we have to listen, we have to serve, listen for needs, things that that we can do to help and also be obedient. When the prophet speaks, when we read something in the scriptures, when our leaders teach us things, we have to be obedient. We have to be on Team Jesus. And I think that that will resonate with the younger kids in my family that are all about teamwork. So here we are. Go Team Jesus.

Becky 52:46

Yeah, that's good.

Tammy 52:47

That is good. I like that. Verse 7 struck me because I have a daughter, that she'll come to me often and say, Mom, can I buy this? Or Mom, I really need this. And I'll look at it and I'll go, Alright, who influenced you? What Tiktok or what video or whatever on Pinterest were you looking at that you now believe you have to have this? And I always go, like I'm looking at this reading it over and over again that we look on the outward appearance of things all the time. That's all social media is. And there are going to be a lot of times, and my girls know this from their own experience, where people will boast that they believe in Christ. Many times my girls will say, "Oh, no, they're Christian." Or they're, they're a believer like we are. And I like how it says in this, "If he thinks he is, he needs to think seriously." Like that is so awesome.

Like, consider seriously, what is your source? And I say that to my girls, every time they come to me with something they've read about, maybe anti-Mormon literature, or any kind of material, I want to say consider the source. Are they seriously followers of Christ? And, how are you on that path? And where am I? It really makes me question that, because there are times when I'm scrolling and looking through things. And I have been reading things that I'm like, wow, this is kind of true. And then I have to consider the source. And is this person seriously a follower of Christ? And am I, where am I? And then again, too, I like that 'cast down the thoughts,' get rid of it, whatever it is. So I like these verses because they absolutely pertain to our day in there. So, I'm grateful Paul kind of just did a little,like he pivoted to give us this war wording. And that I really appreciate that after he gives us this war wording, he's going to come back in the next segment and tell us something specifically personal about himself. So if anyone's feeling down about this war, that you're not doing that well, it's okay because Paul wasn't either and we're going to discuss that in the next segment.

Segment 5 54:37

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Tammy 54:47

I want you to tell me what you imagine when you hear this phrase, "thorn in the flesh" What immediately pops in your head - a thorn in the flesh?

Becky 54:55

I immediately think of thorns that are on raspberries or roses. Roses have huge thorns, raspberries' are really small.

Tammy 55:05

Very good.

Tammy W 55:06

Yeah, I think of getting a sliver and how sometimes that hurts and kind of festers in there.

Tammy 55:15

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think of my sister Caralee - shout out to my sister Caralee. When she was little, we were in a hammock and we were spinning it really, really fast, and it busted and she flew out of the hammock into a big Briar bush. And we had to pick all the thorns out of her poor little body. Oh, boy. Thorn in the flesh. Yeah. And it hurts. Yike. Okay. Now, let me ask you this, then. You know what a thorn in the flesh is like physically? What do you think a thorn in the flesh could mean symbolically, if someone says to you, I got a real thorn in the flesh?

Becky 55:47

I feel like it's when something outside of yourself has caused you irritation. Because that's what actual thorns do is they irritate under your skin. I thought about this example: I remember when I was in middle school, I was in a choir class with a friend, and a friend, she stood right next to me. Two super fun friends, really outgoing, really funny, really loud. And for some reason, she just started to really irritate me. And I noticed that I started to kind of bark back at her a little bit or kind of, and I kind of realized it. And I started praying about, like, I need to like change my heart or I need to like be nicer to her. And it really helped. Like I, after so much time of me praying, I was like, You know what? This is who she is and this is how she is and she's not going to change just because I'm irritated with her. And then we were friends, like through high school. And I saw her at my 20-year reunion and, but I just remember that, that like she really was irritating me. But it took a little bit of help from God for me to kind of see who she was and to try and change my heart, and that irritation went away.

Tammy 57:13

So, Becky, thank you for that personal story about a thorn in the flesh that was spot on. Thank you. Tammy, what about you? What do you think of symbolically?

Tammy W 57:23

Well, I do feel also sometimes it's about somebody that hurts your feelings or some little thing that you're holding on to and kind of letting it fester. And you know that it's going to be painful if you dig it out, like a like a thorn or a sliver if you dig that out. Sometimes it's easier to like cover it, push it deep, put more layers on top because you don't want to face the pain of like digging it out. But you always feel better if you dig it out. And so if you can get to the root of the pain or the, if somebody's hurt your feelings or there's an issue you're struggling with or whatever it is. If you can get to the root of it and dig it out even though it's painful, it will feel better in the long run.

Tammy 58:13

Excellent, great description. Let's read how Paul describes this in 2 Corinthians 12:7. Tammy, will you read verse 7 for us.

Tammy W 58:21

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Tammy 58:38

Now thank you, okay. No one knows exactly what this thorn in the flesh is. But you could probably make some great guesses. "The messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure." Now one thing I love about Paul is he's very honest about himself. He does not say 'I'm better than anyone. In fact, I'm trying just the same as you.' Let's look at 2 Corinthians 10:10, and we're going to read a way he describes himself. Second Corinthians 10:10. Bucky, will you read that for us?

Becky 59:08

"For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible."

Tammy 59:16

That's a verse describing Paul that his presence is weak and his speech contemptible. Okay, here's another verse about Paul: 2 Corinthians 11:6.

Tammy W 59:25

"But though I'd be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been thoroughly made manifest among you in all things."

Tammy 59:35

Thank you. Okay. So there's a couple of things we know about him. And then he says he's got this thorn in the flesh for the buffetings of Satan. Every one of us have a thorn in the flesh. Tammy's shaking her head. We all have something. I like this - the messenger of Satan to buffet me. Everyone's got some thorn in the flesh. Let's go back to 2 Corinthians chapter 12. And we're going to read what Paul has to say about the OUR thorns in the flesh by reading verses 8 and 9.

Becky 59:50

"For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

Tammy 1:00:26

Now, let's go back to that verse. I want to read it again. And Tammy, this time as you read it, I want us to be thinking about this question: What in the world can we learn from these two verses about thorns in the flesh? Go ahead, Tammy, what's the Lord trying to teach us and Paul?

Tammy W 1:00:40

"For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me"

Tammy 1:01:02

What did we learn about the Lord in those verses?

Tammy W 1:01:05

Well, something I learned from you, that perfect means complete. And so he's not asking us to be perfect, he's asking us to do our part and to do the best we can do. And then the grace of the Savior will make up the rest to be complete. So we don't have to be perfect, but I love this. Because, who wants weakness? No one. Like, I want to be the greatest of all time at everything, and I want, but I have so many things to work on, like we all do. And I just feel like, I don't know if you can glory in your effort, infirmities, especially when you're in the moment. There's a lot of times when I'm like, Why, what can I learn from this? Like, hurry, teach me the stuff so I can move on to the next thing. And I think that it's a little bit challenging to actually, while you're in it, see the blessings. But 100%, when you're done with, or, I don't know if you're ever done, but you're moving on to the next trial that you're going to get.

You can see, and I think during the time, one of the things you can do is be grateful for things. And even in the times in my life when I had something hard, it, I could always see something that was, that I could be grateful for, like when the death of my daughter. Like she died very peacefully, and I heard of other stories of children that were suffering, and she didn't suffer. And I was very grateful for that. And of course, all the people that came to my aid and rescue, I was so grateful. And I think keeping that even though you're not necessarily like at the point where you can glory in what's happening, if you keep this idea of being grateful and thankful and praising God for the blessings that you have, it helps you be stronger and get through it and see that there is a purpose.

Tammy 1:03:14

Well, and Tammy, you alluded to this, but go ahead and read verse 10 for us, because it's what you just said. Therefore, I

Tammy W 1:03:20

"Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

Becky 1:03:32

Thank you. Becky, what did you learn about the Lord from those verses?

I'm, um, I, in verse 8, chapter 12:8, he besought the Lord thrice. And I, it's not just that he prayed, I don't really know what besought means, but, like, he did it more than once, right? And prayed, prayed to God, that it might depart. And that part is being willing to do the work to make something depart, right? Because it does take work. And then at the very end of verse 9, I just love that it says, "that the power of Christ may rest upon me." Because if we believe in Jesus Christ and what His Atonement can do for us, then definitely when His power rests upon us, then we're able to do the things and feel the things and get through the things that we need to, with His help. And I totally, totally believe that, that with Christ all things are possible and so His power resting upon us is important.

Tammy 1:04:52

Beautifully stated, perfect. Thank you, both of you. I asked you to come prepared with one scripture account that shows the how the Lord can bless us or to back up what we've said, Do you have an example or scripture that we can cross reference these verses to?

Tammy W 1:05:09

So I just kept thinking about Joseph of Egypt. And through all of his trials, he knew who he was, and the Lord was with him. And we read in Genesis 39:3 and 21, when he has a dream, and he knows who he is, and it's annoying to his brothers. And so they want to get rid of him. He knows who he is. And he's in the jail and the baker and the butcher have the dreams and he knows who he is. God is with him when he's, even as a servant, he knew who he was. And I love the faith of that. And I think sometimes we forget that we are God's disciples, we are His. And we can stand for good and stand for righteous, be on Jesus Christ's team,in this war that we're in. And I just love that Joseph did that, he knew who he was. And he didn't lose sight of that in all of his experiences and all of the trials that he went through.

All of this makes me think of this scripture that I have marked in 10:14, of 2 Corinthians. "For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reach not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ." I love that "for we stretch, not ourselves beyond our measure." Because I think sometimes we put limits on ourself. And we think, Well, this is as much as I can do, or I can only do this much. But God does not have a limit for us. God's measure for us is infinite, and He is. We are the ones that limit, He does not. And so we "stretch not ourselves beyond our measure," and God's measure for us is way more than we think it is.

Tammy 1:07:15

Oh, Tammy, that's awesome. And that going back to your Joseph experience, I mean, way more than Joseph ever imagined the measure. So thank you for connecting that, beautifully stated, I appreciate that. Becky, what verse did you have, what verse of scripture?

Becky 1:07:29

So I went to Doctrine and Covenants 24:8. And it says, Be patient in afflictions, for thou shalt have many, but endure them. For lo, I am with thee even unto the end of thy days." So I just love that. I mean, we are going to have many, many afflictions, many trials, many things to go through. But enduring them and knowing that God is with you is what's gonna get you through. And I think many, many people in our scriptures have done that and showed that they just endured many, many things, and they got through with God.

Tammy 1:08:22

Becky, thank you for that verse of scripture. I put that next to verses 9 and 10. Perfect. That was a great example supporting this idea. So thank you to both of you for coming prepared with that. Great job. So in the next segment, what we're going to do then, is I really like 2 Corinthians chapter 13, because it's the last thing that he writes to the Corinthians. And in these verses, he's going to help us examine a very important question that he poses to Corinthians and to us, So we'll do that next.

Segment 6 1:08:59

.....

Tammy 1:08:59

Okay, so I use the word 'examine' in my last segment to kind of get you thinking about the word 'exam'. And I want you to think back to your days of being in school or college. Like is there a specific exam that stands out to you, one that you're like, Oh, I'll never take that again, or anything?

Tammy W 1:09:14

Well, I recently took an exam to become last year to become a pickleball instructor.

Tammy 1:09:21

Ooh

Tammy W 1:09:22

And I loved it because it gave me an opportunity. I probably was more prepared for that exam than any exam I took in college or high school or, because it was fun, right? Like if you love something so much, it's easy to study and do well on an exam, so that I could coach pickleball.

Tammy 1:09:44

Okay, hold on, I have to ask: How are you prepared? What did you have to do to get prepared? This is so good, it's perfect for what Paul's teaching us.

Tammy W 1:09:50

So you had to watch videos, and you had to read a manual, and you had to prepare yourself to be able to answer questions about pickleball on a kind of final exam. And then there was a segment where you had to go in and face to face with an instructor - show that you have the skills needed to teach. So kind of there was an in-person exam, a written, computer exam. But basically, I had to be competent in the skills and then also know the roles and the things, and then I passed.

Tammy 1:10:30

Okay, that is so cool. I just, everybody write these down what Tammy said. I wrote down: you had to watch, read, prepare, go in person, and prove that you have the skills needed. That could not be more perfect to set us up for 2 Corinthians 13:5. Oh my gosh, this is awesome, because let's talk about the word 'exam.' I looked up the etymology of this word. And the word 'exam' is a shortened version of the word examination. So when you go take an exam at school, what you're doing is you're actually answering what you've had a careful examination of throughout that semester. And the teacher wants to know, do you know all the information that we carefully examined or had an examination of? So Paul asks us to do this in 2 Corinthians 13:5, Becky, will you read that for us.

Becky 1:11:20

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Tammy 1:11:32

Okay, you have to highlight the word 'reprobates.' I really like this, The word reprobates in Greek translators as 'counterfeit or unapproved.' Now that changes that, huh? 'Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except she be counterfeit?' And then he says in 6, 'But I trust that ye shall know that we are not counterfeit.' Like, we're the real deal. You're the real deal. So he's telling us to examine ourselves. We have this invitation. Now, this is so cool. Go back to the list that Tammy made for us. How do we examine ourselves whether or not we are in the faith? How do we do that? If we watch, read, prepare, go in person, do we have the skills needed? Oh, that's so good.

Tammy W 1:12:22

You know, I have been playing pickleball for five years, and then going into be certified as a coach was a different thing. It was a different experience, because now I'm learning how to teach people. But without that experience of playing, I don't think I could have passed the exam. Because watching videos and reading about it is different than playing and getting experience doing - back to doing. And so I think it's the same here where you examine yourselves. Are you a follower? Are you doing it? You can't just, I mean, you can read your scriptures about how to be a follower of Christ, but if you aren't doing it, you aren't, you can't learn everything by just sitting on your couch and reading about it. Like you have to go out there and do it, serve, love, teach, preach, love.

Tammy 1:13:31

I like that in-person part.

Yeah.

You cannot be a follower of Christ unless it's in, you can't. I just don't even think you can unless it's in person. You, like I love how you said that - you can read the Bible every day of your whole entire life, but until you actually put it into action, and show that you actually have the skills needed to be a follower of Christ.... Oh, that's good. I love that you taught us that Tammy. Keep thinking on this. What else? Keep going. Becky, anything?

Becky 1:13:55

Um, I think at the beginning of like Tammy said, you have to do the things. And being in the faith is more than just checking the boxes. And you know, saying, Okay, I pray, I read my scriptures, I do this and this and this and this and this. It's more than just doing the things I think. And but I think at the beginning of becoming a disciple, or when you're, when you're young and growing up and trying to train to learn and grow in the gospel, I think sometimes you start out doing the things, just doing them. But I think the more you do them, the more you gain a testimony of these things. And your understanding and knowledge and maybe commitment becomes a lot deeper and so it's not just checking the boxes anymore. You're praying because you really feel that benefit of having God as your Counselor through your prayers, or you're attending church because you really feel the community there and what people can bring to you and what you can bring to others. Or you're going to the temple because you really feel the spirit of Elijah and understand what that is doing with the gathering of Israel. And I think it does, it does take some time to go through where you're checking the boxes off to really understanding and really knowing why am I doing this? Why am I following Jesus? And why am I a part of this gospel? And so it takes some steps to get there. But you have to, you have to do all those things. So,

Tammy 1:15:35

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I like how you brought up the checking the boxes, because one of the things that I often hear is people say that the gospel of Jesus Christ, it's hard. It asks a lot of us, there's a lot of boxes to check. And I appreciate Paul's wording on the difficulty of the gospel. He says this in 2 Corinthians 11:3. I like how he just sums up this exam that we have to take, the way we examine ourselves. And so verse 3. Becky, will you read that.

Becky 1:16:04

"But I fear, less by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Tammy 1:16:15

What word did he use to describe the gospel?

Becky 1:16:18

Simplicity, simple

Tammy 1:16:21

Yeah, it is. And I think right there, Satan, absolutely as he beguiled Eve will beguile us to thinking, Well, this exam is way too hard, you're never going to pass it. There's just way too many things you have to do. I mean, I think back to you, Tammy, with your pickleball test. Were there any times where you were like, nervous about it? Were you concerned that you wouldn't pass it? Or, what was that like for you?

Tammy W 1:16:42

Yes, of course, I, because I've played a lot but this idea of being able to look at other players and see what they're doing in order to help them be improvers. You kind of have to see what they're doing and be able to kind of diagnose what is needed. And it's scary. And I think part of that sometimes is a little bit of nerves. But it's very simple. There's everything that I knew from my experience. The test was, the exam was actually easy. I passed it very, very easily. But I think sometimes we get too far ahead of ourselves, and that we just need to focus just what's right in front of us. And we were on a bike ride recently. And our family were a bunch of couch potatoes, and we decided to take on this 14-mile bike ride. And at the very beginning it's very dark in a tunnel, and we're getting, our safety instructor is prepping us on how to get through this tunnel. And it was wet, it was dark, and it was very bumpy. And this is, like my nine-year old doesn't even ride a bike. And we had the family, we're trying to ride bikes, like we're gonna do this adventure. And it was scary.

And she's telling us like, okay, it's really bumpy, it's slippery, it's muddy. It's gonna be fun, but it's dark. And I'm sitting there like, Oh, my goodness. I'm nervous. And Mike, I've got my kids. And so then I have to be nervous for them. And this is going to be really hard. And then she said, focus on what is right in front of you, focus two feet in front of you. We had flashlights on the bikes, so even though it was dark, we could see. But if you look up, the first tunnel was one whole mile. And that's far on a bike and you can't see the end of it. And so, if you look too far ahead, if you worry about things that are ahead of you, then it's getting complicated. But this is simple: focus on what is in front of you, just right in front of you and keep plugging along. Keep going and just focus right what's in front of you. And that makes it simple, breaks it down into a simple way to accomplish a big thing.

Tammy 1:19:06

Wow, great story. That is a great application of this. In fact, let's read this quote. It's right in line with what you taught us Tammy. This is from Elder Uchtdorf. And Becky, can you read this for us. He talks about those of us who get caught up in how hard it is to follow Christ as we're taking this exam. That it may seem overwhelming, but it is simple. The simplicity of Christ. And here's what Elder Uchtdorf has to say about this verse of scripture.

Becky 1:19:32

"If you ever think that the Gospel isn't working so well for you, I invite you to step back, look at your life from a higher plane, and simplify your approach to discipleship. Focus on the basic doctrines, principles and applications of the Gospel. I promise that God will guide and bless you on your path to a fulfilling life, and the gospel will definitely work better for you."

Tammy 1:19:58

Thank you, Becky. How has that quote right there applied to your life? Or you in your current situation?

Becky 1:20:05

Um, I think I've had lots of conversations with people where there's so many good things right now to help you study the Gospel. There's lots of podcasts, there's lots of study journals, there's lots of things. And I've had conversations with people and they've been like, Ah, I'm trying to do like, listen to this, and do this and this, and it's just a lot. And I think it's great that there's a lot out there, but we don't have to consume all of them. And one person in particular, I've had to just be like, just choose one this week and maybe you choose a different one the next week, or whatever. Because you do have to simplify, especially if it's stressing you out. And maybe you have to go back to just, hey, I'm just gonna read the scriptures, and not have all these extra things. And it just depends on your life.

But I think when we try to simplify, which is what Paul is saying here is, is I think when we focus on Jesus, then the gospel is simple. I think if we try to follow His example, if we try to serve how He served, and love how He loved, and teach the way He taught, and study and converse with others about spiritual things the way that He did. He didn't make things complicated. And I think if we focus on Him and following Him in the way He did things, we're going to be fine. And that it doesn't have to be so complicated if we focus on Jesus.

Tammy 1:21:57

Thank you, Becky. I really liked that answer. It is, it's where our focus is and has to be on Jesus. So thank you, thank you to both of you for your stories. That's it. That's the end of our episode. You're awesome. Okay, so just gather your thoughts and anything you learned from today's discussion, or anything that stood out to you. Just go ahead and share that.

Tammy W 1:22:17

Well, I will, from the very beginning, the, you made a comment about prayers. And I love the verses in 9:14 and 15 about praying for you. And I remember when, many times in my life, but especially when my daughter passed away, I felt the prayers of people praying for me. And so that really touched me when you opened with that. And especially thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift. That just really has touched my heart today, knowing that the grace and the Atonement of Jesus Christ is such a gift. And that's what makes us complete and perfect. And that's how we can be a cheerful giver. And that's how we can simplify, is focusing on Christ. And so

Tammy 1:23:14

Great one, Tammy, thank you.

Becky 1:23:17

I just really liked in this, about how the concept of my abundance, helping someone else and someone else's abundance helping me. Because it does happen time and time again, where I'll go to church and I am totally spiritually fed by somebody's talk or song or testimony or comment in a class. And it's totally what I needed for that day, or that time of my life. And so if everybody realizes that they have something to give, and there's somebody there that they can touch by their words or by their actions even. So I just, I really liked that concept that everyone has something to give and you will bless the lives of someone else when you give away, whatever your abundance is.

Tammy 1:24:17

Great One, Becky, thank you. Thanks for sharing that again. Tammy, yours for me was "sometimes it's your turn. And sometimes it's mine." And I just love how you kept saying that. Like, it's, it just seems so simple. I've never heard it like that before. And I thought that's so true, that we kind of just, that's why we are part of a ward, because we do that for each other. And I think if we can remember that, when it is our turn, we're not so uncomfortable. Because we go, Oh, you know what, though? I've given to you before. It's easier to receive, if you think of it like that. So I liked that a lot. And then Becky, when you taught us about 2 Corinthians 9:6. I have a whole new vision of sowing sparingly and sowing bountifully. That sowing sparingly, is just you planted your peas one time But if you wanted to do it bountifully, you plant week after week after week. And I thought, that is service. You just can't do it once and expect to get the same goodness out of doing it every single week. So that changed the way I viewed that verse. So thanks for teaching us that, that was awesome. I love you both such a great discussion.

Thank You.

Becky 1:25:17

Bye.

Tammy 1:25:17

Okay, well, I just want to know what all of you've learned. So if you haven't joined our discussion group on Facebook or Instagram, go and do it. It's a great place where you can just type in a little thought from this week or anything on Facebook. And then at the end of the week we will post a comment or a question that relates to this lesson. So go and answer that and share your thoughts with us. You can get to both our Facebook and Instagram by going to the show notes for this episode that are found at LDS living.com/sunday On Monday, and it's not a bad idea to go there anyway, because it's where we're going to have the links to the references, a transcript of this whole discussion, and a glue-in from this specific episode, so go check it out.

The Sunday on Monday Study Group is a Deseret Bookshelf Plus original brought to you by LDS Living. It's written and hosted by me Tammy Uzelac Hall, and today our awesome study group participants are Tammy Weaver and Becky Alder. And you can find more information about my friends at LDS living.com/sunday on Monday. Our podcast is produced by Cole Wissinger and me. It is recorded and mixed by Mix At Six Studios, and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. Thanks for being here.

We'll see you next week and please remember that You Are God's Favorite.

It is edited by highly haigham. Oh my gosh. (Laughter)

Transcribed by https://otter.ai