Tommaso Cardullo: A Connoisseur of Beautiful Things

Morgan Jones Pearson 0:00

Tommaso Cardullo's website reads "Tommaso recalls a time in Italy not long ago when he would wander the cobblestone streets of Sicily and routinely discover goods crafted with precise attention to design and quality. Each week new items were displayed in windows of the shops he would pass on his walk to school." Today Tommaso designs products for companies like Nordstrom, Kenneth Cole and Neiman Marcus. His designs are made in the same factories as luxury brands like Gucci, Burberry and Dior. There is no denying that Tommaso is a lover of beautiful things. But the most beautiful gift he's been offered in his life is not a material possession. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ, which he accepted as a 19 year old living in Italy. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, "What does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?" I'm Morgan Pearson and I am so honored to have Tommaso Cardullo on the line with me today. Tommaso, welcome.

Tommaso Cardullo 1:11

The pleasures mine, Morgan, the pleasure is mine.

Morgan Jones Pearson 1:14

Well, I am so thrilled to have you on our show. And so excited to talk about your growing up and to learn more about you. I absolutely loved prepping for this interview. Because first of all, we have some things in common. I also love fine chocolate. And so hearing you talk about that a bit on some other things was fun. And then I also just love your accent. And I think everybody that listened to this episode will love just hearing you speak. So my first question for you is you are a connoisseur of beautiful things. That's a common trend that I found as I prepped for this. And you attribute that to growing up in Italy. So I wondered if you could tell me a little bit about your upbringing in Italy and how that made you a lover of beautiful things?

Tommaso CardulloTommaso Cardullo 2:06

Thank you, Morgan. Well, first of all, I want you to know, this is exciting, I am honored and privileged to to be part of this podcast. And so I feel very blessed about it. My life has been filled with blessings. You know, even being born in Italy, it was definitely a chosen blessing. You know, I must have won the lottery in the pre-existence. But it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. You know, I was born in Sicily, in Messina, and by really goodly parents, my mother and my father were very, very close. They loved and respected one another. I mean, they were an amazing example of a beautiful couple. And then, you know, it was just a very close to the ocean. Behind me there was this volcano called Etna that was just beautiful. I mean, literally their surrounding were spectacular, but not just the surrounding, the fragrances every season and the different fragrances. I am a person that loves—I'm a sensorial person and I have also a hobby that awaken the senses. And we will probably talk about those later on. But being born in Italy was just a testament that life is beautiful that we are surrounded by beautiful landscaping, by the history. It felt like the walls of the city where I used to play or go to school were talking about story of civilization and people. It really was enriching. I feel I am who I am because of that nurturing from a very young age.

Morgan Jones Pearson 4:06

Well, I love that you mentioned that you have these hobbies that awaken the senses. And I think at least a couple of the hobbies, I think you enjoy good food. And then you lead chocolate tastings when you're not designing clothes, what is rewarding about these hobbies that that awaken the senses in that way?

Tommaso Cardullo 4:25

You know, it is a really interesting. I do chocolate tastings but believe it or not, I do not like chocolate, I have a very savory palate. So the sweets are not innate to me. However, two things: Number one, I married a beautiful girl that loves chocolate. She eats chocolate every single day so I'm surrounded for the last 31 plus years by someone that loves chocolate and cherishes [it]. And some friend of mine opened a place in Provo called Taste—the chocolate factory. And they invited me to taste some of these chocolates. And then, because of my passion for food, for beautiful things, they asked me to do these fine chocolate presentations, where one or twice per month is my hobby. In fact, I was there just last Monday, I just do this presentation where I teach people about fine chocolate, teaching them how to [smell] the fragrances, you know, 80% of an experience is in the nose. That's why we Italians have big noses because we wanted to embrace everything fully, you know, so we smell the chocolate, we put it in our mouth, we'll let it melt it...create this, really sensorial experience. In fact, the more senses you involve, the more memorable is the experience. So this chocolate, something that was not pleasurable for me, now it's been a journey. Every time I try a chocolate from Lithuania, France, Italy, even England, you know, I just discover a new personality, it's a journey. And then beside the chocolate, we also do vinegar, fine drinking vinegar, balsamic vinegar. And that's another story. I mean, that's opened a new new horizon, it is so amazing. I am telling you, I do the presentations for an hour and a half. It is a sensorial experience. In fact, one of the things lately I am discovering the life, many of us live life with an ROI mentality—return on investment.

Morgan Jones Pearson 7:02

investment.

Tommaso Cardullo 7:03

I lately discovered the life should be a ROE, return on experience, the more experience we enjoy, the more memorable this life is going to be. My slogan in my business is very simple: Carpe Vitam, it's a phrase from Latin that means seize life. That's what I do. I just enjoy life in every aspect, even in those that may not be natural like chocolate. Chocolate was not natural for me. But now, after experiencing this fine chocolate, wow, it's just a different, a different experience. It's a very special journey. Anyway.

Morgan Jones Pearson 7:48

It's so fun to hear you talk about it. So let me ask you this. So I love that slogan for your business. I love the idea of seize life. How would you say, Tommaso that we find or how do you find the beauty in the mundane in the every day? How do we better appreciate the gift of life because this is something that I'm catching on, I feel like you're very good at and some of us may not be as talented at finding the beauty in the world around us.

Tommaso Cardullo 8:23

That's a beautiful question. And you know, I have learned in especially since I became member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, that everything starts with a gratitude art. I start my day with a prayer. And I get up around 5:15 Every morning, I get on my knees and [say] my prayers, then I get ready to go to the gym. And on my way to the gym, I have a little ritual. I say another prayer is a prayer of gratitude. I look at the mountains that surround where I live. Even when it's dark. I look I feel my body I say wow, I am healthy. I am you know, I'm 60 but I feel like I'm 30. Everything starts with gratitude. A gratitude heart sets the stage and everything else, literally it's a crescendo and you know, life has high and has lows. But I always say look at the glass half full. It takes the same amount of energy to look at the glass half full or half empty, but the outcome is diametrically opposite. And I think that's one of the things that helps me to really seize life is just the positive outlook, trying to look at the positive you know, it's all in us. You know we can place rocks in our backyard, or we can place flowers. But after a little while, when we look at our backyard, they say, "Wow, it looks like a rockery," or "It looks like a beautiful garden."

Morgan Jones Pearson 10:13

Right, right. Absolutely. Well, and I love what you said about waking up early. Have you always been an early riser?

Tommaso Cardullo 10:23

I was since I was a child. So it's just in my DNA in a way, you know. So it's not difficult for me.

Morgan Jones Pearson 10:32

Yeah. Well, I love that because and I love what you said about driving to the gym and thinking about "I'm alive." And I have this body that allows me to do this. Tommaso, you have said that you're now living the dreams that you had as a teenager. I'm curious in terms of your career and all of that, what you mean by that?

Tommaso Cardullo 10:54

You know, since I was a teenager, I mean, maybe 15 years old, I remember being in my philosophy class in high school. And I loved to design a lot, too. I was not a great sketcher. But I loved it. I loved it. So one, two, 1000, 10,000 hours, I sketched little fashion figurines. So I always wanted to be a designer, since I was literally 15 That I remember. And then I joined the church, when I was 19. The church became this Pearl of Great Price for me, where I felt like I sold everything I had to buy this pearl, okay. And so I was afraid that my passion for for fashion would compromise my new faith, my new principles. I remember very clearly, like it was yesterday, telling Heavenly Father, please help me to succeed as a designer, but please don't let me fail and deny what I know today to be true. And He has been generous, kind, [and] patient with me, where I have used the gift that I have to design clothes and I believe that this is a gift. And that is given by Heavenly Father. And now I am doing really what I love. In fact, I was just talking yesterday, to a friend of mine, there was a period in my life where I was doing very well. I was designing, you know, for Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus, Target, you know, all these big department and specialty stores. It was fun to see my creations around the street or at the airport. But I came to a point where I felt like "What contribution am I making? You know, it's worldly is nothing major. But this last couple of years, when I started my company as a custom fashion designer, I not only create, but also connect with people. And I help people to tap into the divine, to see how beautiful they are. And when I create clothing that makes them feel powerful. You know what happens? They feel empowered, and they work with confidence and an appreciation, when they feel good about themselves, they share goodness and joy around. So now I really feel "Wow, something that I felt was worldly, now has a purpose." I am helping people to realize that we all are sons and daughters of God. You know what I say? At the end of the day, I feel I'm like a mechanic. I see people as Formula One cars: Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, and what I do? I tune up. They're already the ultimate machine. I just make them feel ready to win the race. It has been a very rewarding, gratifying day. Can I tell you I feel the Spirit every day, every day. It's just incredible. So that's why I feel like lately, wow, I feel like I'm getting closer to the nature of my creation, you know?

Morgan Jones Pearson 14:19

That's so powerful. And I think so true. And I think there are so many different ways in which we can do that. But I love that you found your way to do that. Tommaso, when you were 19 years old, you came in contact with two missionaries. I wondered if you could tell me a bit about how you met the missionaries, and how you came to know that the Church was true.

Tommaso Cardullo 14:47

So my father passed away, maybe four months prior. And I always wanted to be a designer as I mentioned, and I felt that was a gift that God gave to me purposely. And so one day I did this collection of dresses, and clothing, I wanted to take it to a man that was working with Giorgio Armani. And I was so excited, totally excited, so I had my portfolio. I remember, I even skipped school, but I was 18 so it was okay, I could sign my own release, I just took the train and went to take this portfolio to meet with this businessman in Italy. And the train was packed, I mean, packed with people standing up, and there was just one open seat. And next to this seat, they were three missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I waited five minutes, and nobody was sitting. So finally I sat down. And while I was seated there, I literally heard a voice to talk to them. But you know, they were sleeping, except one was reading, but the other two were asleep. And I was preoccupied and focused to prepare myself for this meeting that I just didn't think much about this little impression. But again, the impression came the second time, talk to them. And, again, they were asleep. So it was not anything that I could do about it. But the third time, I hear talk to them and while I hear this small voice, the missionary next to me woke up, I knew he was foreign. He was fair with blonde hair. So I said, Do you speak English? He said yeah, I speak English but I do speak Italian too. And they start to tell me they were missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, they were there serving as a full time missionary for their church and they start to tell me about the story of Joseph Smith. You know, I never, never, never in my life had the desire to investigate or join a different church. I was very active in the Catholic Church. Growing up, I was an altar boy. There was a time when I was 10, I used to go to church every single day, serving at mass with a local priest. I even met the Pope t age 16 for a conference for the youth of all Europe. So I was a spiritual person by nature, but again, but there was something special about this young man that said, you know, I would like to know more about your church, but they lived two hours away—an hour, 45 minutes away. So I gave them my grandfather's address. Anyway, to make a long story medium, my wife says I never make long story short, I just get a message from my grandfather say, this American friend of yours is looking for you, and I say, "American friend of mine? Who is this?" And I didn't know I had no clue so I went to look for them again and I got lost couldn't find them but again, for some reason this curiosity was just on my mind. So the week after I went again, to see my grandfather, and again felt impressed, "go look for this American friend of yours." So in those days, there were not GPS. So I had my Vespa, typical Italian boy, looking around and finally I found the place it was a garage. I went inside his garage, not knowing what to find and then while I were going inside, one of these missionaries was there. And it was a great surprise for me because I didn't know who I was going to look for. It was a great surprise for him because he said, Oh, wow, this is Tommaso. And the journey started when they start to teach me about the restored gospel. It was amazing. I literally looked forward every single week to meet with these young people. And then the missionaries that were closer to my town, they started to come to visit me. So another couple of missionaries came to visit me. I remember loving the gospel. But when they told me that I should think to be baptized, I say, No, I have already been baptized, but they invited to pray. And I will never, never, never forget that evening where I was on my bed, laying on my bed, looking at the ceiling, and just asking Heavenly Father with pure intent with a sincere heart, "Is this church, your church?" And the answer was very clear, a very direct, He said to me, "I want you there." The day after, I start to talk to all my friends about this desire to join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And regardless of the fact that if my mother would ever find out, Third World War would have exploded. But, you know, I don't want to say I didn't care. But I was so excited about getting that answer that was intimate. He told me directly, I want you there and that was beautiful.

Morgan Jones Pearson 20:21

Tommaso, you mentioned that if your mom had found out, it would have been the third world war. Your mom was not happy when you joined the church and I loved, you shared something with her that I thought was really interesting. I wondered if you could tell listeners what you said to your mom about your decision to be baptized, and how you've seen what you promised her to be fulfilled in your life?

Tommaso Cardullo 20:47

Yeah, thank you for asking. That's a very precious experience for me. You know, my mother and I were very close, very close, I was the oldest son, she was a widow. And I felt this responsibility, but also this beautiful connection. She and I were very, very close friends. So when she heard that I, when I got baptized, and I wanted to go, I used to go to church every Sunday, it took me an hour and a half to travel to church, she really was upset to the point that once she was so, so upset with me that she said, when I came back from from church, "You have two options, either you accept this church, or you accept us, if you accept this church, you're no longer welcome in this family. And that's it. So for the weekend we didn't talk about it, and Sunday came, I get up early, getting ready to go to church, to take the train, and so on and so forth. And my mother said, "Well, I guess you made a decision." And I told my mother, I think was inspired, but I said, "Mom, I love you and I love my Savior and His Church. I don't see why I need to choose between two things that I think they can, you know, live together, marry together. I want both in my life. But this is your choice." So I left, went to church, return around 1:30 in the afternoon, with a big question mark? Will the door be locked? Or will I be accepted? And she had softened her heart, because my mother was beautifully kind. But she was also strong, and very stubborn. And she just said to me, I really have a hard time with this. As a result of that, I said, "Mom, as I mentioned, I love you. But I want you to know one thing, you shall see a tree by its fruits. If the fruits of this choice of mine are good, then the tree is good. If the fruits of this choice are going to be bad, then I will be the first one to say you were absolutely right. I made the wrong decision." It took decades and decades. But my mother one day told me, "Tommaso, do you remember when you told me about the tree? I want you to know that this has been a good tree." And the joy that I experienced that day, it was full and complete. Because even though there were probably two decades, she saw that the way I lived my life, the way I raised my children, the way my children were living life was an example of a good choice.

Morgan Jones Pearson 24:00

That's so sweet. I love that it kind of came full circle. You had a bit of a unique experience that I think a number of people have within the church, in that you served a mission shortly after joining the church. You served in London, England. What was it like for you to serve a mission as a recent convert to the church?

Tommaso Cardullo 24:23

So so, you know, I didn't know serve immediately after. I wanted to. I wanted to. In fact, I served a mini-mission two weeks after joining the church for two weeks. And then I talked to my mother. I said, "Mom. I'm 20. I want to serve a mission." And she said, No, you're going to kill me. There is no way that you're going to feel the mission." So age 21. I did the same and she said on my dead body. There is no way that you're going to serve a mission. Age 22 I did it again and this time, I felt very prompted, in fact, a friend of mine that went to the temple in Zollikofen, Switzerland. She said, "Tommaso, we pray for you. While we were at the temple, I think you should go on a mission." I really felt the Spirit so strong that I said, "Okay, I will send the paper. C'est la vie. We'll see what is going to happen." So that call came. And I was called to the England London mission. And my mother, she was furious. I mean, literally, probably some of the worst times in my life was the time between when my mother found out that I was going on a mission to the time that I went on a mission. But it's a long story, I will not share everything. But I want to share another only one thing that finally...two truly miracles. I was able to leave age 23 to go on a mission. And for the first three, four months, I was extremely worried about my mother. I used to write to her every week, and she never wrote to me. I used to call her once a month just to make sure that she felt that I was loving her and caring for her, sometimes even twice a month. But month number four, she sent me a letter, the first and only letter that she sent me. And she said "Tommaso, I had couple of dreams lately. But there's one dream that really meant a lot to me. In this dream I saw the Savior, Jesus Christ, He was coming towards me and He was holding your hand. And he said to me, "You see your son, he doing my work, support him, because he will come home safely." Her heart was changed. My heart was changed. We both were at peace to know that God was involved in this plan, and my mission was one of the most glorious, the most rewarding. I mean, my English was challenging but what an amazing experience. It truly became the foundation of who I am today, of my faith and my love for the restored gospel for Jesus Christ.

Morgan Jones Pearson 27:27

That's such a great story. Also, though, I think on your mission, it was when you felt inspired to come to America and receive an education. You said that you only had $300 at the time. Was that a scary decision for you? And if so, how did you kind of overcome that fear?

Tommaso Cardullo 27:48

Do you know it's interesting? Just looking at my memories, it was not scary. I mean, literally the Lord blessed me immensely. I mean, here I am, I never saved to go to a university, overseas where, you know, it's it's much, much more expensive than going on a university in Italy. But everything literally, the Lord—it's like He was preparing me. One of the missionary that baptized me. He said, you know, Tommaso, we were planning to come to Italy, but we don't have enough money to come there. But we have enough money to have you come here. So he paid for my way to come to the States. Okay. One. Number two, the Italian house. They say to me, Tommaso, the head resident is getting married in a couple of months. Would you like to be the new head resident of the Italian house, so I didn't have to pay my my rent and my lodging because it was part of me being the head resident, helping people with the Italian language. So VAVA voom, another blessing. And then, you know, this lady out of the blue said, you know, I want to sponsor you. And I met her only three days in London on my mission. I mean, literally, this is a God of miracles. He was just putting stepping stones. So even though I had $200, I had the faith, He would provide, He has already provided the way for me to go to school here. And I'm telling you, He has been the way. This is a generous God that is eager to open the windows of heaven and pour this blessing upon us. We just need to trust Him, have faith in Him and love Him.

Morgan Jones Pearson 29:49

Tommaso, let me ask you this in relation to what you were just saying about your relationship with God and needing to trust God. You have called your relationship with the Godhead crucial, and you you kind of in a previous interview that I listened to you walked through both our Heavenly Father and our Savior and then the Holy Ghost as well. Why would you say that that relationship is so crucial? And how do you suggest or how have you found to be effective in your life, to form that relationship and come to know them?

Tommaso Cardullo 30:25

You know, I'm a simple man, and I like simple things like law of nature, I see things as a stool. A stool has three legs. When a stool has three, strong legs, equally balanced, you can put everything on top. I think that for many people that struggle with sometimes some of the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ, I invite them start with a loving relationship with God the Father, with your Savior, Jesus Christ, and with the Holy Ghost, with God, the Father through prayer. I love prayers, I just find it fulfilling, connecting, refreshing, even sometimes, I may be tired. But it's like a muscle— the more you use it, the stronger it gets, and more I pray, the closer I get to Heavenly Father. I understand His voice, then I love to have a relationship with the Savior. Or my mission, that's where I learn that the Savior is real. The Savior is there every time I do something to one of my brothers, and one of my sisters, it's like I do it to him. And I got to know him by just serving, by striving to keep the commandments, and to emulate his life. And that's how I got to know Him. And when I was a bishop, you know a YSA ward, with young single adults, it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. I felt literally [like] a conduit. I was just nothing less, nothing more than this conduit. And I could feel the love the Heavenly Father and our Savior Jesus Christ have for His children. And I cannot tell you, it was like He was putting this bucket of lava on me and Icould feel this love through me. I could feel it. We were all edified. They used to leave this office knowing that they were loved by the Savior. He is real, He is intimately connected to all of us. So again, I gained a testimony about this Church even more. This is His church. So bingo, Jesus Christ lives and loves us. And then the Holy Ghost. Oh, I love the Holy Ghost. I mean, literally, lately, it's been so good. I feel it every day. I mean, even by talking with you, Morgan, I just felt this, this goosebumps. That's how it works with me. When I get goosebumps. I just know that everything is in harmony. And I am happy. I am happy. I just say I could even die now I'm just in a good place. So when I feel the Holy Ghost, I try to keep the commandments to the best of my ability effectively. I'm imperfect. I make mistakes every day. I love the President Nelson said, repent daily as a part of the tune up. And you know, that tune up helps us to become this again, this formula one car that can win the race. Then second, listen, listen to the promptings of the Spirit, but most importantly, act upon it. I have learned, especially since I was a bishop to listen these promptings. Sometime they used to freak me out, scaring me. Oh my gosh, how can I tell this to to this young men? Or how can I do this? But again, if I listen to the prompting, I get more brave, more courageous. Especially I see miracles and I've seen I mean miracles, after miracles, after miracles. So to make a long story again, medium. If we establish this relationship with God the Father, with our Savior, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Ghost, we set our faith on firm foundations.

Morgan Jones Pearson 34:42

So well said. I love the way that you broke that down. I think that those listening can probably agree with me that what you exude Tommaso this gratitude. And one thing that I learned as I was preparing for this interview is that you have a gratitude journal and you write in it every night before you go to bed. Well, I guess first of all, when did you develop this habit? And how has it shaped or changed your life?

Tommaso Cardullo 35:11

So I want to make a clarification. It is not every night I try my best, but I do often. There are there are there are times, there are months and months, where it's literally religiously, every before I go to bed, I write these three bullet points. Sometimes one bullet point is just, I love the temple. As simple as that, you know, I work in the temple on Tuesday nights. And every time it's just like this pentecostal experience. Last Tuesday I say, I wrote a large page in my journal, because this temple night was amazing. I mean, literally, I laugh, I cry, I, I love this experience, it was incredible. So, my journal is just some of these things. My missionary was the one that suggested my, the one that baptized me, he suggested to write it and you know, it was like, I used to say, I'm like a empty container. I just need to be filled with good stuff. And sometimes I do a better job than others. But writing has been like, again, focusing on the blessings, and counting them one by one. This is a generous God. I mean, Father in Heaven, He literally has this, the windows of heaven are filled, filled with blessing in store for us. Sometimes it's a matter of time but some time, it's just that we have the key to unlock these windows. And when we use those keys, va-va-voom, we will get them.

Morgan Jones Pearson 36:59

I love that. So Tommaso, before we get to the last question, which is what does it mean to you to be on the gospel of Jesus Christ, I wanted to kind of try to bring our interview full circle, because I love this idea of beautiful things and looking for, you know, the reasons that life is beautiful. So I wondered for you, why are the things of the gospel are the things that the gospel of Jesus Christ has brought into your life, why are those things beautiful things?

Tommaso Cardullo 37:29

Again, it is all about the fruits of the tree. These simple things are quenching, they satisfy my appetite, they bring me peace, they bring me joy, they bring essential gratitude. Again, I'm a simple man, that, you know, when I have a lot of good friends that sometimes struggle with some of the principles of the gospel. But I just say don't forget to remember all these good things that you're experiencing. Don't throw away, don't cut the tree just because there was a bad year and some of the fruit got rotten. Look how many wonderful, fruitful, enjoyable years you had, look who you are because of it. And the reason why I love the gospel is because I'm a better person because of it. I remember as an a 19 year old, someone told me, the gospel of Jesus Christ made bad people good, good people better. And that's exactly what it does. It makes people better and better and better.

Morgan Jones Pearson 38:54

I love that. Tommaso as usual on this podcast, we at the end of every episode, we like to ask the same question. And that question is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Tommaso Cardullo 39:11

For me means that I strive to be the same person everywhere. I strive to be the same person at the gym in the morning as I strive to be a disciple of Christ. We have some time in my group, we call it a Carpe Vitam workout where we don't only lift weights or do sprints or do different circuit. We talk about the gospel like today we talked about revelation or how we hear the voice of God in our life, how we recognize it. And then you know, I work. I talk about the Gospel Jesus Christ, to all my clients to all my friends. Yesterday, there will be two doctors, beautiful people, they are not members our faith. But you know, they know that I'm a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ. And we talked about the gospel in a very nonchalant, simple, but spontaneous way. And you know, and when I go on a trip with friends, I talk about the gospel and my love for Jesus Christ. So, for me Sunday is every day, you know. So for me, it means that a true disciple of Christ is a follower, every minute of the day, every day of the week, every time. And like I say, it doesn't mean that I don't fall or I make mistakes. But I am who I am because of my love and devotion to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

Morgan Jones Pearson 40:54

Tomasso, thank you so much. I love what you said about Sunday is every day I feel like that should be on like a T shirt or something. But thank you very much for taking the time to be with me and you're a delight. Thank you.

Tommaso Cardullo 41:08

Oh, Morgan, I am delighted and grateful. And really, really, my heart is full of appreciation and gratitude. You are a beautiful person. Your smile is radiant. So thank you, Morgan.

Morgan Jones Pearson 41:22

Thank you. We are so grateful to Tommaso Cardullo for joining us on today's episode. Big thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six studios for his help with this episode. And thank you so much as always for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai