Judy Eror: The Power of Covenants Even After Divorce

Morgan Jones Pearson 0:00

Judy Eror's children suspected their father might leave the year before he actually did. They tried to tell their mother but she insisted they were wrong. She didn't want them to be right. How could a marriage she and her husband had built and nourished over 42 years be over? This episode is not about the end of a marriage, but rather how one woman found strength in her covenants even as her marriage ended. As you listen, you may find yourself wondering what exactly happened. And I will go ahead and tell you many of those questions won't be answered on this episode. But sometimes details are not as important as the way someone responds to those details. Because chances are the details of all of our stories will be different, but what we learned from them, well, many times those can be the same, and there's power in learning from and leaning on one another's experiences. Judy Eror is the mother of three children and grandmother of 10, all of whom she considers to be her dearest and best friends. She has always been involved in the communities where she has lived and previously served as the church's Public Affairs representative in the Detroit area. She was also nominated by a number of evangelical women to be Michigan's young mother of the year. She currently serves as Relief Society president in her Salt Lake City Ward, and works as the executive assistant to three of the Associate Deans in the School of Dentistry at the University of Utah. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so honored to have my friend Judy Eror on the line with me today, Judy. Welcome.

Judy Eror 1:52

Thank you, Morgan. So good to talk to you. I miss you.

Morgan Jones Pearson 1:55

I miss you too. So I should tell people that Judy was my Relief Society president in Salt Lake. And that's how I got to know her, we were actually assigned as ministering companions. And I still remember, Judy, when you first reached out to me, and it was in the middle of the pandemic, and you wanted to have a zoom call. And I was like, Who is this lady? And why does she want to have a zoom call with me? And I have loved you ever since that Zoom call. So thank you for insisting that we get on Zoom.

Judy Eror 2:28

That was fun. That was a great way to get to know each other.

Morgan Jones Pearson 2:31

As I've gotten to know Judy, I have learned so much from her not just about what we're going to talk about today. One of the biggest things that I learned from Judy is resilience and forgiveness and trust and complete faith in God. And we are going to talk about something today that happened to Judy and to her family. And something that I think is probably way more common than we realize and something that I think a lot of people deal with, but often deal with silently. And for a very long time. I've wanted to do an episode about this. But I needed to find the right person, somebody that was willing to share their experience. And Judy is willing to do that. So as we get started, Judy, I just wondered if you could give us a sense of what your family and your marriage was like before your divorce, and why the dismantling of your marriage came as such a shock?

Judy Eror 3:30

Well, I feel like our family was a pretty typical family, raising our children in the gospel of Jesus Christ. We did have our struggles, everybody does, you know, Elder Dave Evans was our bishop. And at one point, he said, If you think people in this ward don't have problems, that means you're not spending enough time in their home. And so we were kind of typical that way. We had three great kids that had all had temple marriages and 10 grandkids and we were serving in church callings. I was in the Relief Society presidency, he was on the High Council. So I felt like you know, we were doing okay, we were kind of rolling along and into it. So that was who we were from the outside. I think people looked at our family and thought, this is a perfect Latter Day Saint family. This is perfect.

Morgan Jones Pearson 4:27

Judy, I know it probably isn't a fun time in life to go back to but I wondered if you could if you would be willing to take us back to the days immediately following your separation and divorce and what it felt like as you could feel your whole life changing around you.

Judy Eror 4:52

Well, I I have to say I was without a doubt a train wreck and that is being kind. I moved into my daughter's basement, I had to live on a blow up bed. I was locked out of my house, I didn't even have a toothbrush, Catherine had to buy me a toothbrush and a pair of socks. And I probably have never felt more poor than I did at that moment. I had zero. And I just remember laying down in bed, and she was there, tucking me in like I was a little kid. And I thought, I cannot believe this is where I am and this is what's happening. And I felt embarrassed. I felt like I was a failure. I felt like there was never, ever going to be a way forward. I felt all of the dreams and the things that I thought were going to be in my future were suddenly vaporizing faster than I could imagine. And it just...this was a shift. I could not figure out how I was going to get up the next day or the day after that. I was a mess. There's just no way around. There are some people that cry and they look really lovely. I'm an ugly crier. I didn't even look good. cried. It was really nasty. I was wearing her pajamas at one point. It was bad.

Morgan Jones Pearson 6:25

So at that point, how do you find yourself relying on God and trusting in the promises of the gospel more than ever? Because I know, Judy, that you had told me in the past, like you remember that first Sunday afterward and choosing to go to church. And you know, for 42 years previous I'm sure that wasn't something you had to make a conscious decision to do. So how did you find yourself turning to God rather than turning away from him?

Unknown Speaker 7:00

I think first of all, it's the power of habit. That first Sunday, I just knew if I did not go to church that Sunday, one would become two would become three. And it would be very easy to just never go again. And so I knew. Fortunately, I had a habit of 40 plus years—more than that because my whole life I had never had a Sunday where I woke up and said, Should I go to church or not? That just never was part of my life. So that was one. I started reading my Patriarchal Blessing really seriously and praying for understanding. Okay, what does this mean, given the situation that I'm in now? What does this mean? What am I supposed to do? And then I started going to the temple, every single week, every single week. And that was life changing for me, because suddenly, it wasn't that I got major revelation because I didn't. But I had major connection to my Father in Heaven, and I could feel his love for me. And then I started praying every day that I would see his hand in my life and believe me, somedays that was just really hard. Somedays all I saw his hand in my life was my kids buying me KFC? But I looked for that. And then tried to acknowledge it. And then the other thing that I did is, and I think I've told you this before, and I would recommend to anybody is find a scripture, that can be your motto. And I found the one and I think I've told you this in First Nephi, where he talks about I will be your light in the wilderness. And he says that he'll lead me towards the promised land. And I knew when I would get there, I would know that it is by my Father in heaven that I was led. And I probably read that scripture every single day to just remind me, He's in charge, He is going to lead me. And that helped me focus on the things that had been promised to me that were based on my worthiness, not anybody else's at all. And that was extremely healing and extremely helpful to me.

Morgan Jones Pearson 9:40

I think those are wonderful, wonderful suggestions. I think for anybody that's going through something like this. I found myself thinking, Judy, as you were talking that I actually have known a few people in my life personally who have gone through a similar situation as yours. And the outcome in some cases, like we talked about before, is their marriage actually ended up working out. And and actually, I've seen that they, in some cases, have like better marriages than they ever had before. But, but the thing that's consistent regardless of outcome, whether it be your situation, or these few other people that I found myself thinking about, is this turning to God. And in one instance, the person that I'm thinking of they relied on the Atonement in a way that I don't think I've ever seen anyone rely on the Atonement. And then in another case, very similar to you a reliance on the temple and just constant temple attendance. And so I love that you mentioned the importance of temple covenants and clinging to those covenants, even when it feels like your covenant is in jeopardy, because the reality is your covenant, Judy, was never jeopardized.

Judy Eror 11:15

And you can't let anybody anything take that away from you. I remember being invited to a wedding in the temple. And it was in the same sealing room where I was sealed, which was a very, I hadn't been back in that ceiling room since I was there being sealed. But it was okay, because I thought, okay, these covenants that I made at this altar are still mine. And nobody can take that away from me. Unless I make choices that take it away from me. So, yeah, the temple big, big help, big help.

Morgan Jones Pearson 12:03

Judy, I want to touch on something that you have talked about with me in the past, and that is that you had to learn how to forgive someone who never asked for forgiveness. And I don't think this is unique to just in marriage. I think that this is true of so many instances in life where it's like, we have to learn how to forgive somebody that is not asking for our forgiveness. What what did that look like in your case?

Judy Eror 12:31

Well, there are two very distinct prayers that I remember offering to Heavenly Father. And this was one of them. I was so wound up all the time. And my stomach was just in a knot. And I was so upset constantly. And finally, I remember going to my Heavenly Father on my knees and saying, Heavenly Father, I have loved this man more than anyone on this earth ever has. But I cannot carry this anymore. I cannot carry the anger and the hurt and the disappointment. It is killing me. And it is going to start killing my children spiritually and emotionally. And so Heavenly Father, I need to just give this back to you. I'm just going to put this on the altar, and then ask that maybe at some point, Heavenly Father, you and I can talk about this face to face. But for right now. I have to hand all of this back to you. And Morgan, it was a physical thing with me. It was like when I had been backpacking carrying a 50 pound pack and you take that pack off and set it on the ground and there's this physical release. That is exactly what I felt. It was a physical thing with me. I know that there are people that feel I've had people say to me, I have to stay angry. If I'm not angry, I can't help people. And I feel like no, you can't help people angry because that is not the Savior's plan. His plan is to forgive and trust that He'll take care of this. You don't have to go after anybody, whether it's in a marital situation or a neighbor, or a sibling. He'll take care of it. You just have to know that. But let it go, hand it over to Him. And then breathe, take that deep breath. That freeing breath of I have let it go. And then you move on. And it was one of the outstanding, wonderful, glorious days of my life that I will never, ever forget.

Morgan Jones Pearson 15:02

Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it's interesting for me to hear you say especially that last sentence that you just said, and to feel like the joy that you obviously felt, it comes through even over the phone. But certainly in person, you know, you actually are a very happy, joyful person. And I think when somebody is in the middle of this situation, it feels like, I may never be happy again. Oh, and I think you are such a great example that you actually can you can be genuinely happy and fulfilled, and hopefully those that are listening that are in the middle of it can can gain some hope from that.

Judy Eror 15:51

I hope so. I hope so.

Morgan Jones Pearson 15:55

Well, and I think that one thing that I found really interesting, as I've talked with you, Judy, in the past is that you talk about how you think these things end up happening, where marriages get broken, and covenants get broken, and why it's so important for couples to be aware, even when you seem like the perfect family, that temptations and, and stress. Those are not things that anyone is immune to, that they're often found at work and at home for both the husband and the wife, can you speak to why you think it's important to be aware that those things can affect even the most perfect of families?

Judy Eror 16:40

Yeah, I think, Morgan, one of the things that I have really come to absolutely believe is that right now, Satan is working overtime on families, and he's going after families that are rock solid as far as the gospel of Jesus Christ goes. And I think it's very easy as members of the Church for us to feel that, oh, I'm I'm immune from that, I would never commit adultery, I would never violate my temple covenants. We have family home evening, we read our scriptures, we pay our tithing. So we are immune. And the reality is, no one is immune. And I think what happens is, it's really easy to become casual about boundaries, within a workplace, within people that you associate when you go to the gym. It's just easy to be very casual. And I think we have to keep our focus all the time on our covenants and realize that we are just as likely to be led off the path as the next guy, that just because we have family home evening or read our scriptures, that does not mean that we're immune. And I think the other thing that becomes really easy in this day and age is to justify, well, I'm putting my career first right now, because I'm blessing my family. You know, it's so that we can pay for piano lessons, or we can pay for dance or gymnastics, or whatever it is. And anytime we put something, whether it is career, or physical fitness, or any number of good things, if we put those ahead of our covenants, we start to get into trouble. And I think that's the biggie for all of us to remember.

Morgan Jones Pearson 18:38

I completely agree. I also, as we get into this, one thing I don't want is for people to be like, Oh, well, they're saying that the only way for a story like this to end is in divorce. And you emphasized to me in the past that that definitely doesn't have to be the end of the story in these cases. What would you say about that?

Judy Eror 19:03

I think there are some people that are able to, to get through it. Get through the other side with a marriage intact. I really do believe that I think if two people are both willing to do the work, that there's no reason that it can't happen. The other thing that I think I've said it to you before is that one thing that I've learned, my niece's thing is there's nothing as irrelevant as the score at halftime. And right now what we have to remember is that our life is seriously at a halfway point. So we were before we came to Earth and my guess is that Heavenly Father said this is going to be hard and we were like, Yeah, hard. It's just a blink. We had no idea how hard when He said hard, He meant hard. So here we are halftime and then we know that there is more that will come and so we can't look at our lives with whatever challenge we have, whether it's this or losing a child or anything hard and say this is the end, because it's the half. We're at the half. So I think that's a really critical point.

Morgan Jones Pearson 20:14

Yeah, I love that point that you make so much. Because I think, in my own life, it's been important for me to realize that in certain situations, it's still halftime. And there's still a whole nother half left to play. And I think as a former basketball player, I appreciate how much a game can change after halftime. So really quickly, I want to say something I love what you said about boundaries. And being sensitive of those, I think that one thing that you shared with me before is when you have somebody in a work setting, and then they come home to a spouse that typically has been overwhelmed all day, and maybe doesn't look as great as they would look, normally, if they were going out on a date, or whatever. You're dealing with, like two very different things, dealing with people in the workplace versus what you're coming home to. And recognizing that many times, it's sacrifice that's being made on both ends, and showing gratitude for those sacrifices. You mentioned to me, Judy, that there are so many wonderful things about marriage. And one of those things is learning how to make sacrifices for another person, you made a lot of sacrifices over the course of the four plus decades that you were married. And I wondered, would you change that in retrospect?

Judy Eror 21:42

No, I can absolutely tell you no, I would not. I would do it all over again. Because I can look at my Heavenly Father and say, I made a boatload of mistakes. But I hung in there. And I sacrificed and I gave it my 100%. And I think even how it all played out at the end, I would do it again. Because I know, I tried. And I didn't take a shortcut. So there is great peace in that. I mean, I've got to face Heavenly Father for a lot of mistakes. But that's one I don't have to face Him about. And I think that's really important. And yet, when you're in that situation, it's really easy to go back and start rethinking every single thing you did, and yet, do it again. Absolutely.

Morgan Jones Pearson 22:39

Well, and I love that because I think that you know, any relationship, any thing that we do requires sacrifice, and it's easy to look at it and be like, Oh, well, I could have done all of these other things if I hadn't put so much into this thing that ultimately ended up not working out. Or you can look at it as I did all of these things in there were a lot of really wonderful byproducts of my sacrifice and things that I put in. And that is what makes anything beautiful and worth doing in life is putting in that sacrifice.

Judy Eror 23:20

Absolutely. And out of that came three phenomenal, phenomenal kids. They have three phenomenal spouses and I have 10 Phenomenal grandkids, I sound really braggy. Whoops. But to me, that's worth it. And I think as I look at it, this whole thing has made my kids even more solid and more phenomenal. It just has it has strengthened it. And that sounds very bizarre to say but it has strengthened our family to such a degree. Do it again. Absolutely do it again.

Morgan Jones Pearson 24:03

Another thing that you've shared with me in the past is that you think therapy is good, but that it was really important for you to get therapy from someone who understood and respected your testimony of covenants. Why was it important for you? And what do what do you mean by that?

Judy Eror 24:22

Well, first of all, my kids had to almost wrestle me to the ground to get me to realize that I needed therapy. I did. I needed someone from the outside that could talk me through things. And the first therapist that I had was not a member of this Church. A lovely woman helped me get over the stigma of going to therapy every week and there is there tends to be a stigma there. But I got to a point with her where I felt like I was having to justify fighting for my covenants fighting for eternal relationships. And I felt like I was having to justify to her what our church, my stake president and bishop and how they were handling it. And I knew that I'm as much wanting to be a missionary as the next guy, but in the middle of therapy is not the time to try to explain to your therapist, so I kind of bailed. And then I was at dinner with two dear friends and John and Diane said, You know what, Judy, we've got somebody we think I mean, out of the clear blue, we've got somebody we think you ought to see. And she's kind of hard to get into, but she is a member of the Church and a Relief Society president and you really ought to look at this. And I found myself in her office, and suddenly, it was fabulous. She understood temple covenants, she understood the eternal nature of a family. She understood what a stake president and a bishop can or cannot do. And she helped me center myself back. I mean, she could say, okay, you know that that's not true, right? If I would say, really outrageous things. Okay, Judy, let's talk about that. Do you know but that's not really true. And it was the most freeing and reinforcing thing for me. And I think anybody going through this kind of a thing, or any kind of a trauma, the trauma of losing a child, the trauma of losing a sibling, whatever it is, do not be afraid to seek professional help. Because sometimes we act like if you just pray about this, it will all be better. I'm not discounting the importance of prayer, what I am saying is that there are some things that you need help for beyond that. And I think that is a critical thing to remember. So I am grateful.

Morgan Jones Pearson 27:18

I think that's such a good thing to touch on and to emphasize. And I think, I don't know if you feel this way, Judy, but I think you know, the fact that your your kids were the ones encouraging you to do it probably is an indication, I think my generation is a lot more comfortable with the idea of therapy than maybe Oh, yeah, my parents/your generation, would you say that's accurate?

Judy Eror 27:44

I'd say that's 100% accurate. And your generation is miles ahead because of that. If you had cancer, you would not be afraid to go up to the Huntsman Cancer Center. But why is it that when we deal with some of these things, we're afraid to seek professional help as well. And I don't think there's a bit of difference between this kind of thing. And a medical thing, if you've got allergies, get allergy shots, go to a doctor, nobody thinks twice. And we've got to get to a point where we're not thinking twice about this, because it helps.

Morgan Jones Pearson 28:21

At the same time you were dealing with this and working through this your children and also a lot of other people who love your family were also simultaneously grieving, which I think is common, again, in many, many instances. What did you learn about how people grieve in different ways and why it's so important for us to allow everyone the opportunity to grieve?

Judy Eror 28:47

You know, that's really an interesting thing, the first time that I came up against it, a woman came up to me sobbing, and she said, This is so hard for me and for my family because I had to go tell my children that their favorite young men's leader had left and I I was so angry. I thought "What do you mean, this is hard for you?" Because I was standing there comforting her going, Oh, I'm so sorry. That was just a stupid feeling. And, and then my son came to me and he said, I'm, I'm gonna go back east to visit Lonnie and Bill and I'd like Uncle Bill to give me a blessing and I just flipped I'm like, Absolutely not, do not tell them. I don't want anybody to know. Absolutely not. And then I realized I, he was grieving the loss of a father. And I was preventing him from getting the support and love that he needed. And he needed to be able to grieve and his grief was different. He was grieving a parent. I was grieving a spouse, my friends were grieving loss of their friend. And if we really are going to be those who mourn with those who mourn. This has to be part of it, we have to allow other people and they're not going to feel it the same way. My kids did not feel it the same way I did. My friends didn't feel it the same way I did. But it was just as valid. Their grief was just as valid. And I had to be patient and allow for that, and not feel like I have, I was the only one impacted by this that was just grossly unfair. And I had to get past that and be humble enough to say, Yeah, we're all suffering one way or the other. This is crummy, and go for it. And when I started to do that, I could look at other people differently. I didn't look at them with resentment, like how can you feel? How can you feel badly? This isn't your spouse, this isn't your marriage? No, it was their relationship. And that was just as valid as as mine. So that's kind of how, but it goes back to that mourn with those who mourn.

Morgan Jones Pearson 31:07

Yeah, well, and I think it's I think it's hard though, when, like you said, You are the one that's closest to it and so it feels like "how do I mourn with those that mourn in the middle of my own grief?" But that goes back to I don't know if you've ever heard that talk that "Character of Christ" by Elder Bednar. But he talks about, you know, Christ, in the middle of his own struggles turned outward. And I think you're a great example of recognizing, you know, first of all, recognizing that you weren't doing that, but then allowing other people to mourn and mourning with them. I think in so just in a few short months of being married, I've recognized how much of your identity in a marriage is wrapped up in being someone's spouse, and in your case, it was your spouse for, for 42 years? How did you rediscover who you are and who you are meant to become in the middle of all of this?

Judy Eror 32:19

Well, first of all, I had to acknowledge that this was really hard, you know, this, just there's no way around it. This was just really, really hard. And I was going to have to plow the next part of my life by myself. And so first thing I did was get a priesthood blessing. And I didn't get just one, I had more than one. And that was, okay. That was just fine. And then I started looking at rediscovering parts of me that I had put aside because of responsibilities that I felt I had within a marriage. So I took a outrageously difficult knitting class I took, I started skiing for me, I got back on my my road bike, I started changing how we looked at holidays and things that were important than I stopped clinging to...I'm such a beaten path person. I put the same ornaments on the Christmas tree the very same way every year. And I had to just put some of that aside. And then in the midst of this, my friends started sending me books, what to do when you're facing divorce, how to handle it, when your husband leaves the church. You know, I have a shelf of books by that were sent to me by well meaning friends. And then one of our dear friends who happened to have been our best man at our wedding, said, "Judy, put all of those aside, and read Tad Callister's book, "The Infinite Atonement," and recognize that the Atonement covers every thing. We look at it in terms of well, it covers all the sins, but it covers all the heartache as well. And he said, If you will read that, and continue to read your scriptures every day, you will be able to get back to who you need to be, and you'll be able to figure it out. And it changed, absolutely changed my life. And then I went back to a talk that I think I've shared with you, and it was the Loren Dunn's talk that he gave in like 1974, "On Hanging On." And in it he talks about facing challenges and that you face them so that the Lord can find out whom he can trust. And I thought, I'm all in on that. I want to be trusted. I want the Lord to trust me. And so then you put all that together and then I was able to start trying to figure out who I needed to be and and if I could recapture parts of my yourself. And those are the things that did it for me.

Morgan Jones Pearson 35:04

That's awesome. When I was on my mission, I asked my mission president who had been a VP at Deseret Book, how or what book outside of the scriptures he would recommend most. And he recommended "The Infinite Atonement." And so when I got home, I read it. And I love that book so much. I loved that it played a key role for you. You have said that you feel this journey has helped you grow closer to the Savior. But I wondered, you know, I mentioned earlier, I think it's easy to look back and see the positives and see how much you've grown from it and how much better your relationship with the Savior is. But when you're in the middle of it in the thick of it. And I think a lot of times the hardest part of these types of journeys is at the very beginning. So I wondered what would you say to someone who is just starting down this road that you have now traveled?

Judy Eror 36:05

I think I would say it is okay to say "This is awful. This is hard. This is nothing I was prepared for." It's okay to look at it and say, you know, I don't remember a lesson in primary or young women or young man that said, "Okay, today, our lesson is on How to handle your marriage breaking up," we just don't cover that we don't talk about it. And it's okay to acknowledge how hard it is. And the other thing that I would say is, if you will allow this experience to refine you, and allow it to grow your relationship with the Savior, that you will find your voice again, you think it's gone, you think you have permanent emotional laryngitis. But if you will develop that relationship with our Savior, Jesus Christ, that you will find your voice and you will be able once again, to sing the song of redeeming love. You don't feel like right now as you face it, but I promise you from the depths of my heart, that you will feel it again. And when you do it will be a better song than you ever thought possible to sing. So that's what I would say

Morgan Jones Pearson 37:25

is so beautifully said, Judy, thank you. How would you say that you have seen the Lord's care and awareness of you in the years since this experience?

Judy Eror 37:37

Well, do you remember I said there were two prayers that I remember very clearly. The first one was about forgiving. The second one was, I remember kneeling down at my bedside. Before I was locked out of my house, after I had been called horrible names. And I was feeling the depths of everything awful. And I remember kneeling down and saying Heavenly Father, don't I deserve better than this? Exactly like that. And I look at my life now. And I feel like the life I'm living now is Heavenly Father's answer of "Yes, my dear you do." Because I look at the neighborhood. I live in the ward that I am in the job that I have the church callings that I've been able to hold. Those are the friends that have stood by me, a friend that showed up at my house and sat with a letter that said I was sitting in church and had the overwhelming feeling I needed to tell you that there are people on the other side of the veil that are cheering and believe in you. I have to look at that and say that is evidence that my Heavenly Father cares about me. And I think if you look at it from a big scheme of things, every time there has been something important that has happened within ever, it's because people ask the right questions of our heavenly father, Joseph Smith going into the grove, righteous men asking how do we make the priesthood available to all worthy men, Judy Eror kneeling down and saying, Don't I deserve better than this? And then if we ask those questions, and we keep our mouth shut, and listen and look for his hand, then it becomes apparent. My problem is that I tend to not know when to keep my mouth shut and listen. And it's true as my kids they'll tell you, but if we are just quiet and then listen and look for his hand and look for the care, man it is there and if we'll just acknowledge it, then we'll he'll be be more apparent, I think, when I prayed, Don't I deserve better? I think I was, I think I was praying for an Alma the younger moment, you know, somebody would be struck down and they would then see an angel and their life would change, and then wake up and then decide that they were going to be a different person. And to pray for somebody else's free agency to take away is a really bad idea, because it's never going to happen. And so what I had to do is say, Don't I deserve better, and then look for how Heavenly Father has made it better for me. And he has.

Morgan Jones Pearson 40:42

First of all, I think you are not the only one that has the problem with shutting up and listening, I definitely have that same same issue. But I love what you said about, you know, wanting that Alma the Younger experience. I think all of us, you know, pray for different things. I actually recently have been praying for someone in my life, to have an Alma the Younger type experience. And I think that idea of shifting it to ourselves and like what we can do to aid in that and certainly that God can send miracles to help, but a lot of it is reliant on us and the lens through which we see things. So that was a powerful reminder to me, Judy, thank you so much for sharing your experience. My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Judy Eror 41:39

Well, it's kind of a two part thing for me. And I've thought about this. I think about it every time I listen to your podcast, I think it's kind of a John Taylor thing when he said, "The kingdom of God or nothing," you know, that kind of has to be the focus. But to me, it means acknowledging and honoring the covenants that I have made, that no one can take away from me at all. And then it is to live to honor those covenants, and honor the sacrifice of our Savior, Jesus Christ, and honor it by the things I do and the things I say, and the way I treat other people. And if I can do that, and be someone that our Father in Heaven can trust, trust that I will live and honor my covenants, trust that I will do everything that I can to be able to be worthy of my wonderful family, those here on Earth and those that have gone before. That's what it means to me to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and gratefully do that.

Morgan Jones Pearson 42:55

Judy, thank you so much. You're such a such a bright light to everybody that knows you in such a blessing. And I couldn't be more grateful for you. So thank you so much.

Judy Eror 43:05

Thank you, Morgan. I love you so much.

Morgan Jones Pearson 43:10

We are so grateful to Judy Eror for joining us on today's episode. A big thanks to Derek Campbell for his help with this and every episode of this podcast. And thank you so much for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai