Josh Pack: The Faith To Be Healed

Morgan Jones
July 30, 2008, Josh Pack was swimming with his brothers at a family reunion. Standing in water almost to his waist, he did a swimmer's dive. In that instant, his life changed forever as he remembers hitting sand under the water that left him paralyzed.

Josh Pack is a CPA who currently works as a controller at "Reeses Dental and Braces." He graduated from Weber State University earning both a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. He is convinced that he has the best family and friends on the planet and having known some of them, I'd have to say he's arguably right.

This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, "What does it really mean to be all in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?" I'm Morgan Jones, and I am so grateful to have my friend, Josh Pack, here with me today.

Josh, welcome.

Josh Pack 1:43
Morgan, it's fantastic to be here! I am humbled at the opportunity to be on your podcast. So thank you.

Morgan Jones 1:55
Well, it is a treat to have you and I am so—I'm so excited. For those listening, Josh's cousins are very good friends of mine. And I recently heard him speak up at Weber State. And his message is just so powerful and so engaging that I thought this is something that people need to hear. And I think it'll be helpful to so many people regardless of their circumstance or life situation. But Josh, first of all, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Pre—is it 2008?

Josh Pack
Yeah, 2008

Morgan Jones 1:43
So tell me a little bit about what you were like.

Josh Pack 2:30
Sure.

Morgan Jones
Growing up what your growing up was like, what you were like, etc.

Josh Pack 2:35
Yeah. So before my accident in 2008, I grew up in Eden, Utah. And it's like the recreational, I don't know, capital of Northern Utah, maybe outside of Park City. And so we grew up just hunting and fishing and being outside and enjoying all of the beautiful creations of our Heavenly Father. And you know, right next to our house, we have three ski resorts within 15 minutes, we have Pineview Reservoir, grew up playing sports, played some high school basketball. And so we were just like really active, always outside, always doing, run, run, run, and work hard, play hard. And that's what we were, physically, you know, outside and living the dream.

Morgan Jones
Yeah, well, where you live, I can vouch for this, Eden is stunning. So beautiful. And your family you really are the type of people that are just constantly going. So in 2008, you were how old?

Josh Pack
I was 18 years old. I just graduated from high school. And let me, can I go back and just say a little bit about my family?

Morgan Jones 3:44
Yeah, please.

Josh Pack
So in my family, I have an older brother that's two years older, and then a brother that's a year younger than me. And then the youngest brother's five years younger than myself. And then my sister's only three years younger. So we're all like, really close in age and really tight. And so we all grew up together, just running around.

Morgan Jones 4:05
So in 2008, when this happened, you were 18-years-old, you were at a family reunion, is that right?

Josh Pack
Yeah, we were at a family reunion, we had some family and from California. And we were there, we were playing at Pineview Reservoir. And so we're there and we're just we're playing. And a few days before that I had been wakeboarding on Pineview Reservoir every single day for a week straight. Because that's just that's like a typical summer. We'd wake up in the morning, go hit the lake while it's glass, and then go to work in the afternoon. And so we're there for the family reunion, so it's just like another day on the lake just playing and having fun. And had I just got done wakeboarding, and we're hanging out on the beach with family. And I turned to my two brothers, and it's getting to be you know, 9:30/10, and I'm like, "Hey, we better get to work. So let's go for one last swim and then we'll head to work." And I run in just like as deep as you can go, like I'd done 1,000 times, to about waist-deep and just do a little surface dive. And my head hit something, and all of a sudden, I can't move.

Morgan Jones
Unbelievable. So what, had you hit sand?

Josh Pack 5:15
That's a good question. Probably just like sand or a rock, I don't know, but something. Something like hard enough to break my neck.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. And so then your brothers found you in the water.

Josh Pack
I was face down and I can't breathe and I can't roll over, I can't move anything. And I'm right ready to start sucking in water and my brother Justin, he grabs me and pulls me over. And my younger brother Colton grabs me and they haul me back to the beach.

Morgan Jones
And tell us a little bit about the days and weeks that followed that. Just a little synopsis of what you went through over that next little period of time.

Josh Pack
Yeah, so a lot of like Priesthood blessings and prayer. I get a first ride trip from the helicopter to McKay Dee Hospital in Ogden. And I wake up in a hospital bed with tubes and monitors coming out of every orifice of your body. And it's like, instantly, you wake up and realize like, "Wow, like life's different. And it's going to be a bit of a challenge." So, three days after my accident, I get pneumonia really bad from almost drowning and getting some water in my lungs, and my left lung collapses. And I can't breathe and it's like, terrible, it just feels like you're drowning. You just can't breathe. And so they put me on life support, they intubate me for about two weeks that they just kind of zonk you out. And I'd come to every once in a while, but you can't talk, you can't say anything. It's like you're just staring at everybody. You can hear them talk, but you can't like, say anything.

Morgan Jones
that is such a—I can't even imagine that.

Josh Pack
It's scary. You just feel trapped, like the most trap you've ever felt like. That's how I kind of felt like for two weeks. And after that, I come to and they take me off life support and I start to talk again. And from that moment on to like saying my first words, again after two weeks of being in the hospital, just kind of rebuilding my life to where I'm at today.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. I want to really quickly before we move on, I want to touch on this idea, what you were describing. I've never heard somebody describe what it's like to be on life support and to have that experience. What was going through your head? Were you scared? Did you feel super uncomfortable? What else was going on?

Josh Pack
Like all of those emotions tied into one. But you have like a tube going down your throat. And you can't drink or eat anything and so your mouth incredibly dry. Like if you could think about like being out in the Sahara desert for two weeks, that's what it feels like. Eventually, like they started swabbing my mouth out with like Coke, or like Gatorade. And it was like, "Oh, that tastes so good."

Morgan Jones
'This is heaven!"

Josh Pack
Like the best Coke you've ever had. And so you just feel really trapped.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. So when, when you were taken off life support and you started to kind of come to I guess, what was the initial prognosis? And did they think that you would walk again that point?

Josh Pack
So the doctor came in and he basically was, you know, like, "Hey, bad news for you, man. You're paralyzed. And, you know, some people do come back and walk, but chances are, you're probably never going to walk again."

It was at like that moment where it was like, "You know what, I don't really care what anybody tells me, but I'm going to walk again." And that was like the goal that I had set for myself. At that point, I was like, there's no doubt, I was like a physical specimen before I got hurt. Big biceps, six-pack, right? I was like physically active, and I was like, "I know how to work out and I'm gonna beat this like, guaranteed. Give me half a year to year, and I'm going to be walking again. This is just going to be a bump in the road. And it's going to be a really cool story. I can tell everyone I broke my neck and I'm walking again."

Morgan Jones
Yeah. And so for those who are listening that cannot see, you are in a wheelchair still.

Josh Pack 9:30
Yeah.

Morgan Jones
When you look back on that, what would you tell yourself then, knowing what you know now, about that attitude of, "I'm going to walk again." Would you still want—

Josh Pack
I would say that exact same thing. I wouldn't change anything about like that attitude or that goal. I would like even drive it home even more. I'd be like, "Don't listen to anybody." If you get like a redo to maybe do something different, to maybe get back one more muscle or, you know, one more paralyzed part in your body, like go after it with all your heart, might, mind and soul. You know, go get it.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. So I love that you said that because one thing that I'm hoping people take away from this podcast is overwhelming optimism. I am so impressed with you, Josh, and your ability to remain optimistic, to have a great attitude, and to still have hope. And so over the course of this conversation, I want to talk a little bit about how you've been able to maintain that and what have been the tools that have helped you. First of all, let's touch on your family. You mentioned that you and your siblings are very close, your parents are fantastic people. How did your family support you—beginning even in the hospital—how did they support you and help you maintain optimism?

Josh Pack
Yeah, it's, um—I wouldn't be where I'm at today with the testimony of Jesus Christ and a loving Heavenly Father, without the support of so many wonderful family and friends. And so I look back at those first few weeks, and even like those first few years after my accident, and I was relying on my family and my friends' testimonies to get me through those times. But especially my immediate family. I think that this experience kind of welded our family unit together. It was like a sink or swim moment for us. And, man, they all just like came to my rescue.

Morgan Jones
Yeah.

What would you say, Josh, to someone maybe who has had a family member go through an accident like yours or has been diagnosed with an illness, and it's recent, right? They've just gotten that news. What would be your advice in terms of how to best support a family member or a loved one going through something like that?

Josh Pack
That's hard because like, I've been in that situation where you see a loved one struggling and you're like, "What words could really do this justice?" You know, if I put myself in like my brother's shoes, and you go into the hospital room, and there your brother is paralyzed. Like what words—what can you really say that is going to be meaningful or impactful? And I would just say to follow the Holy Ghost and to rely on the Savior and the atonement. And that through Him, through His grace, you can do anything, we can do some incredibly hard things. It's wired in our spiritual DNA. So don't give up. Never give up, keep up the good fight. And eventually, all things will work together for our good.

Morgan Jones 12:54
So, Josh, I want you, if you don't mind sharing, you shared an experience when you spoke up at the institute. You talked about being on an airplane, and hearing two women have a conversation. And I kind of want, if you don't mind, I'd love for you to kind of share that experience. And then we'll kind of jump off from there.

Josh Pack
Okay. So years later, I've like rebuilt a life. I'm still in a wheelchair, I'm still paralyzed. But I fly to Denver or Arizona about once a month for work. So I'm flying back from Denver, and there I am, I'm on the airplane and—I always fly Southwest, shout out to those guys. They're super nice. And I board the airplane and I slide over to the window seat, because that's like the best seat on the plane. And these two ladies, they come and they sit next to me. And before we even take off on the plane, they start complaining. And just about like little things, you know, like going through airport security and paying for a cup of coffee at the airport and how expensive it is. And we get airborne and it's just like one story after another about delinquent children, divorces, illness, and it almost becomes like a battle on who has the worst life horror story. Who can make the other individual like cry first. And they're getting like, pretty loud, pretty boisterous. I remember like looking at the flight stewardess and she's like, "Wow, I can't believe this is happening."

Morgan Jones
Like, get out some popcorn.

Josh Pack
Yeah, totally. Yeah, listen up. And we're getting ready to land into Salt Lake. So they've complained for the full flight from Denver to Salt Lake City. And we're getting ready to land, and the lady pulls out of her purse, x rays of her back and like surgery that she had had on her back and clearly like it looked bad, it looked pretty gnarly. And the other lady, like basically just capitulate and is like, "All right, I guess you win. You win the battle, basically, of whose life is toughest." And we land, they stand up, they get off the plane. And the biggest like, takeaway for me from that experience, is like, first off, that like everybody has a story to tell. That life is hard for everybody. And granted, like everybody can see that I'm in a wheelchair, and I'm probably here doing your podcast because of my wheelchair. But you could take almost anybody and put them in front of this microphone, and be like, "Hey, you know, what are some of the trials, what are some obstacles that you've gone through and done? What are some of the hard things that you've gone through in this life?" And I'm sure like, everybody has a story, everybody. Life is, you know, unfair to everybody.

Morgan Jones
Absolutely.

Josh Pack
And my second lesson is, if you believe you're beaten you are. And so as soon as you want to be picked on, as soon as you want to be like, "My life is uniquely hard," you know what? You're beat. So when life kicks you down to the ground, get back up.

Morgan Jones 16:00
Yeah. So the thing that I loved when you told this story, is you have boarded this airplane like you said, you slide into the seat. These women probably had no idea that you, who is sitting next to them, are actually in a wheelchair.

Josh Pack
Yeah.

Morgan Jones
And so I think that it's a powerful reminder of like you said, Everybody has a story, even the person sitting next to you that you may not even notice is there.

Josh Pack 16:30
And the thing is, like, just add to that, like I get the benefit of the doubt. And everyone's like willing to help me and like open up the door for me, and probably be a little bit nicer than what they would be to like an average human being. But to maybe just like remember that, hey, everybody's going through some stuff.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. So in the years and months since your accident—your months and years, I should say. I should lead with months. But in that time, Josh, you have really made a life for yourself, despite your challenges. And so not only did you graduate from college, you also got a master's degree, is that right?

Josh Pack 16:59
Yep.

Morgan Jones 17:15
And you served a mission?

Josh Pack
Kind of, yeah.

Morgan Jones
Tell us about that.

Josh Pack
The mission experience?

Morgan Jones
Yeah.

Josh Pack
Okay so I get back from Colorado hospital, it's the end of February and I, you know, just had turned 19. All of my buddies are putting in their mission papers, and they're, you know, serving all over the world from Mexico, the Caribbean, Germany, Australia, the Philippines, South America. They're going all over the place. And here I am, you know, having your lifelong dream growing up in the LDS culture is, you know, up to that point is "I'm going to serve a mission."

Morgan Jones
And you had an older brother.

Josh Pack
Oh, yeah, an older brother that was on a mission at the time of my accident. And he was serving in Phoenix. And so, you know, you just grow up expecting to serve a mission. And here I am, all my buddies are, you know, getting ready to serve and getting their papers and leaving, and I'm doing therapy with my mom. And I would drive from Eden to Neuro Works, it's this physical therapy place and in West Jordan, every day. Well, three times a week I'd go to Neuro Works, the other two times I'd work with another physical therapist that was closer to home. So every day I'm just I'm just like just grinding it out, doing therapy. And I'm driving to Neuro Works and my best friend, his name is Nick Sorenson, and he had just left on his mission to Mendoza, Argentina about two months before. And so I'm driving down to therapy and I get this phone call from like, it's like, you know, like 100 digits long, it seems like. And I'm like, "I don't know who that is, I'm not answering it." And that same phone number calls my mom. And she's like, "Hey, you better answer this, it must be somebody." And so I answered the phone call and it's my buddy on the other line. I'm like, "Nick, how!?" And like, I'm, like, totally, like taken back like, "Oh, my heck, how are you doing? How's the mission?" And then it hits me like, "Dude, you shouldn't be calling me! You know, like, you're on a mission. This is against the rules." And he's like, "No, no, no, it's all good. My mission president is here and he wants to talk to you." And it's President Lindahl from down in Provo, awesome guy. And he starts to say, like, "Hey, you know, your buddy here, Nick, is with me and he's doing a great job and he's an awesome Elder. And he was telling me a little bit about your story and how you had grown up with aspirations of going on a mission and here you are paralyzed now and you're not able to serve at this moment. But we would like to adopt you into the Mendoza Argentina mission." And so from that moment forth, I've been part of their mission. And I was able to speak to their mission over Skype. And the next year, they wanted to do 1000 baptisms in a year. And I was kind of like the inspiration behind those baptisms. And they dedicated all of those—all of their work and all their efforts to my healing and my recovery. And they would call me on and off frequently—President Lindahl and Nick—and they just included me and made me part of that mission. So it was awesome.

Morgan Jones 20:35
Amazing. I think that's such a great example of a friend being able to be supportive again. It's that idea of I think we sometimes underestimate how much we need the people around us. And how much of a support those people can be, even your friend that was thousands of miles away on his mission.

Josh Pack
Right. And I think it's also testimony that like Heavenly Father loves us and He knows the desires of our hearts. And h=He uses other people, like my friend, Nick and President Lindahl to lighten our burdens. And usually, Heavenly Father is going to show His love or help us through trials and difficulties through other people.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. So just to clarify, the reason I thought you had served a mission—so now I'm curious—is because I saw the picture of you with like a name tag on. Were you able to meet?

Josh Pack 21:30
They photoshopped be into a mission like with all the AP's down there.

Morgan Jones
Amazing.

Josh Pack
And so I'm photoshopped down there. And so the best part about this is that I'm speaking to a youth group in North Ogden—and this is like years after my buddy Nick has been home. And we've like shared this experience before and have spoken about it. And so I'm home and I'm speaking to this youth group and this kid comes up to me after and he's like, "Hey, I know you! You're Josh Pack. You served in the Mendoza, Argentina mission. Your pictures like hanging up down at the mission home." And he's like, "You're like a legend down there. You went down there, I guess, and you baptized like 1000 people." And so I'm like this kind of folklore legend down there in Mendoza I guess.

Morgan Jones
So cool. I love that so much. So Josh, another thing that you—like I mentioned before—you didn't let anything stop you from gaining an education. And you told this story about your first day at school at Weber State and I wondered if you could share that.

Josh Pack
Yeah. So it was my first day at Weber State when I had finally figured out how to drive and take care of myself and pull my bookbag off my wheelchair and at least like get to school by myself. I had done a couple of semesters before with the help of a brother. And then also a really good friend named Sean. So there I am, I'm going to go to school like all by myself. And I pull in with my truck and it's the start of the spring semester. So it's the second week of January.

Morgan Jones
Very cold.

Josh Pack
It's cold. And I hate the cold. My legs hate the cold, I should say, just being paralyzed, they don't like the cold. And so I get out of my truck, and I hopped in my wheelchair, and I'm pushing my chair, it's like 50 yards into the building that I need to get to. And on the asphalt, there's some snow and some ice and just like asphalt cracks. And it felt like every time I would push my wheelchair, my leg with spasm and like come out of the footplate. And I have to grab my leg and put it back in the footplate. I'd take another push and my other leg would spaz out and fall out. So I'd grab it, push it back in. And then I'd hit a pine cone and like the same thing would happen. So it's just like my legs are just, you know, spasming because it's cold. And I'm like, hitting these obstacles and it just was like, I'm never going to make it into school it felt like. And I eventually, like, get into the building. And I looked down at my phone, and I'm 30 minutes late. And it was like, kind of like a little bit depressing to think how am I going to do this realistically? Even just like get into the building to school? And I go into the bathroom. and I don't know whether like to laugh or cry. And it was like at that point, I was like, you know what I'm setting the goal. It doesn't matter what happens, I'm gonna graduate. I'm gonna get a degree.

Morgan Jones
And you not only graduated, but you did pretty well.

Josh Pack 24:40
Yeah, I graduated summa cum laude. So I was the guy that couldn't get into to the building the first day of class, to graduating at top my class.

Morgan Jones
What do you think it is, Josh, you talk about that moment in the bathroom. What creates that kind of mentality? Like do you think—obviously that's not something that was just created at that moment. That's something that was developed over years of preparation leading to that moment and then you're like, "No, nothing's gonna stop me." So what creates that?

Josh Pack 25:15
I think just growing up and like being around good parents and good examples and seeing like, creating a good work ethic. But then also, I wouldn't be who I am without breaking my neck. And that like gritty tenacity comes from waking up every day and getting into a wheelchair and into a situation that you really don't want anything to have to be a part of. Like, I'll be honest with you, it stinks, right? Being paralyzed, it's a total bummer. But waking up everyday climbing in that situation and saying, "Nothing's going to stop me, I'm going to go after my goals no matter what." And making that choice every day, kind of builds up and makes you stronger, and helps you develop some really unique attributes.

Morgan Jones
Absolutely. Josh, what does get you out of bed every day? Like, what is it that helps you want to do it every day? Day after day after day?

Josh Pack
Yeah, like what is the why? So first off, I sincerely believe that this life's a test and it's supposed to be hard. And my choices, my decisions, who I decide to become, I will ultimately be judged according to those choices. And so I wake up every day with a smile my face, or I try to, because I know that Heavenly Father's watching me. And that's what he wants me to do. And then secondly, I think that I've set some really high goals. And so I want to go get out there and accomplish and I got things to do. So get out of bed and get a smile on your face and make it happen. And then third, it breaks my family's heart that I'm in this situation. And if I don't get up and put a smile on my face, then it's going to break their heart if I was just down and depressed, so I put a smile on my face for them.

Morgan Jones 27:25
Josh, I want to shift a little bit to faith, in particular. What have you learned—so we talked earlier about that belief that one day you will walk again and that something that you still believe.

Josh Pack
Yeah.

Morgan Jones
So what have you learned about the faith to be healed and maintaining an eternal perspective?

Josh Pack 27:47
Yeah, I received a Priesthood blessing from my mom's cousin, who was Bruce Porter. He's since passed away, he was in the first quorum of the seventy. Awesome guy, I love him to death, him and his wife, Susan, are incredible people. But he gave me a blessing, and he's blessed me multiple times, that I would walk again. And I believe that, on Lord's timing, right? And so I go to bed every night and I say a prayer that, "Hey, maybe tomorrow or tonight is the day." And I go to bed expecting to wake up the next morning and to be healed. However, I love the verse in Daniel 3 with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, where they're like, they're getting ready to be tossed in the fire. And they look to King Nebuchadnezzar and they're like, "We're going to be healed, we're going to be saved. But if not, that's not going to shake our testimonies and we're going to believe no matter what." And so that's kind of the attribute, that's kind of the attitude that I try and go through life with. Is that I believe I'm going to be healed in this life or the next, whatever that might be, it's not going to shake my faith in a loving Heavenly Father, and in the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Morgan Jones
What have you learned, Josh, about the love of God through this?

Josh Pack
Sometimes I think that we would love our Heavenly Father to be like a gumball machine. Or we could just throw a quarter in, throw out a prayer, and just have everything worked out our way. And there are moments in our lives where we feel like we know what's best for our lives. And I look back at 2008 and at those months, and I was like, "You know, what would be best for me right now, is for me to be healed and to walk again. And to have all of these trials just like wiped away, made clean. That's what would be best for my life." That's what I thought. But the more I go through this experience, the more I think that I see Heavenly Father loves us enough to let us come down here and experience a totally unfiltered mortal body experience. Where you look at the history of humankind and it's full of like tragedy and wars and depressions and floods and really tough things happen to us. And I have, I'm trying to gain enough faith in a loving Heavenly Father, that He's willing to let us experience all of that because Ge knows that's the only way for us to get back to live with Him, to receive eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom. It's through experiencing a really tough life.

Morgan Jones 30:45
I am so impressed, Josh, by your faith and by clearly, this is something that you've worked to develop over time, even since your accident. This is something it seems like you really have tried to study and build your faith. What are some things that have helped you do that? Like how do you really dig in to building like a spiritual reservoir?

Josh Pack
Yeah. So I get home from the hospital from Denver, Colorado, at the end of February. And it's like the middle of April that I get a phone call. And it's the neighboring ward, and it's the young woman's leader, and they're great friends and she wants me to go speak. And you know, I was like, speak? You know, like go share my accident, like it's not even a year old like that's a little fresh to like go like relive all that.

Morgan Jones
The wound is not even healed yet.

Josh Pack 31:43
Yeah, it's not even healed. My life's like totally just falling apart. And inside, I'm saying "No, no, don't say that. You know, don't just, you know, you can get out of this." But like the Holy Ghost was like, "Yeah, you should, you should go, you should do that." And so I said, "Yes." And I go up there and they were doing like their young woman's camp up at Bear Lake. So I go out there and I speak with my oldest brother who had just returned home from a mission. And he spoke before me and was like, total missionary spirit, totally rocked it, you know? And I got up there and I try and tell my experience my story, and it was like, so fresh and so new that I'm pretty sure I just like cried most the time. It was like, it was like tragic for me. It was like really hard. Yeah, but I bear testimony at the end. And I remember going home and like, I'm never doing that again. Like if someone calls me to speak like, definitely not happening.

Morgan Jones
Hard pass.

Josh Pack
Yeah, definitely not happening. And it was like the next week later, I get a phone call. And it's like a second cousin out in plane city and he wants me to come speak.

Morgan Jones
You're like, I'm retired from speaking.

Josh Pack
I'm done, I'm not doing this again, right? And the Holy Ghost just like hits you again, like, "Yeah, you need to do this." And so I said, "Okay, yeah, I'll do it." And I'm like sitting there like preparing and getting ready to speak. And I go there, and I give my talk. And it was just like, the Holy Ghost just like loosened my tongue. And I felt like the Holy Ghost was there and it was powerful. I just like shared a beautiful testimony that through Christ, we can do all things, we do really hard things because of His grace. And from that moment on, I feel like those opportunities have just like kept coming. Opportunities to share my testimony, and to share my experience. And so I think that the Lord blesses us by giving us opportunities to extend ourselves and to do some uncomfortable things, where at that moment, our alarm bells are going off saying, "Don't do that, that's uncomfortable, you know, that's out of your comfort zone." But if we're willing to kind of step out on that ledge of faith, then it allows Heavenly Father to do some miraculous things with our lives. And I've seen that my life.

Morgan Jones
I love that. Josh, when you speak, I was amazed because you like, quote scriptures and quotes that you've memorized, and it's just like, one after the other. What are some scriptures that have really helped you? Or do you have a favorite scripture that's helped you through this experience?

Josh Pack 34:30
Yeah. Just to like, maybe like go back to that a little bit about like, the scriptures just, they just start to flow. And to me, that's just a gift from Heavenly Father. Yeah, you're willing to speak and share your experience, and even though it's like uncomfortable and not the easiest thing to do, it's almost like a gift from Him. The gift to the spirit, so to speak. And so I love that. I love like when that kind of kicks in.

Morgan Jones
But I do have to say, I always think I'm like, "Well, the spirit, of course, can call things to our remembrance and very cool when you feel that happening. But in order for that to happen,

Josh Pack
It's also through some work and some dedication

Morgan Jones
Exactly.

Josh Pack
It's not like I haven't spent time reading my scriptures.

Morgan Jones
Right. And the spirit can't recall things that aren't there, you know? So like is there a specific scripture that stands out for you right now?

Josh Pack
Right now, like I love reading about Paul, and he has so many like, gritty scriptures that just talk about the tough things that Paul has gone through but he's always just bearing testimony of Jesus Christ. And so I love Romans 5. And it says, "But not only so that we glory in tribulation, knowing that tribulation worketh patience and patience, experience and experience, hope. And hope maketh not ashamed because of the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost." And I just love that. To say like, we glory in tribulation, I love the hard times, you know, like, feed me, give me more, give me more trials, give me more adversities because that's going to make me a better person. And I love that attitude of Paul. And you just see that throughout the New Testament. And then having the faith to kind of go through those things to have the experience and then to have the patience, and then to have the hope, and to kind of have the faith to just to have the experience of mortality. And knowing that it's gonna, it's gonna work out for our best.

Morgan Jones 36:30
Yeah. Josh, there's a word that you've used a couple of times over the course of our conversation and it's "grit," or "gritty." What does that word mean to you?

Josh Pack
I read a great book about a year ago. It's Angela Duckworth's book. It's just called "Grit."

Morgan Jones
Yeah, yeah.

Josh Pack
And it's a great book. But she says that grit is having the passion to go after a top-level goal and the perseverance to follow through. And so it's like setting like big or audacious goals, because you're like just a passionate person that you want to, like, dominate life. And then to have the perseverance to follow through and to do something that's really uncomfortable for long periods of time, probably years to accomplish a top-level goal.

Morgan Jones 37:27
Amazing. Before we wrap up, I have a question for you. And I'm, I'll be honest, I'm slightly uncomfortable even asking it, but the Spirit keeps on like, it won't go away in my mind. So I'm gonna ask it.

Josh Pack
Okay.

Morgan Jones
If you could go back to that day at the reservoir, would you still dive in the water?

Josh Pack
That's a tough question. I've thought like so much about it. And I would love to go back and see what my life would have been like without the wheelchair and see like, who I would have become without the experience. But I also know that the experience has made me who I am, of breaking my neck and being paralyzed. And so while if I could, there's like two sides of everybody, right?

Morgan Jones
Yeah.

Josh Pack
There's like, kind of the spiritual side and then the natural man side of us. The natural man is saying like, "I would hit that button all day." To go back and not have to experience this and be able to walk again like that would be amazing, I would love to hit that button. But the faith to say, this is what's best for me is to experience this and I'm okay to go through it, whatever it takes. And I know that Heavenly Father loves me and through His Atonement and through the grace of Jesus Christ, it's going to be okay. I wouldn't change that for the world, to have that testimony.

Morgan Jones
Yeah. Before the last question, I just want to say, I think that you should be so—I think Heavenly Father has to be so proud of what you have done with this particular trial. I think it is remarkable. Josh, what does it mean to you to be all in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Josh Pack
So I knew this question was coming, so I've had a few weeks to think about it. But to me, personally, to be all in the Gospel, and I kind of said it a little bit already. But it's waking up and getting in a wheelchair and climbing into a situation that I don't want anything to do with it. And I honestly, like, I hate it. There's a part of me that just like, I hate being paralyzed, and feeling trapped, and sometimes a little bit, you know, depressed and sad. You know, I hate that. But being "all in" is saying despite that, despite the hard things, despite the trials that we go through, I'm all in and fully committed to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Morgan Jones
To climb in every day.

Josh Pack
Every day. Yep.

Morgan Jones
Amazing.

Josh Pack
Give me more.

Morgan Jones 40:14
You're amazing, Josh. Well I have to tell you, I am so grateful to you for sharing this. I think that one thing that I love about this podcast is it gives people a chance to have a conversation with someone that we normally would never. Like you and I, if we're at some kind of party or something, we're not going to have this conversation. But I think it gives people a chance to really dig deep with someone and to get an idea of what your life is like on a daily basis to hear you talk about getting up in the morning to hear you talk about going to school that first day. And I think, I hope, that as a result of this, it allows people to put themselves in other people's shoes, to think a little bit more about what each of us are going through. And like you said, sometimes those things are more visible than others, but we all have things. And if we could just give each other a little bit more grace, a little bit more love, that's what we all need.

Josh Pack
Can I say one more thing?

Morgan Jones
Yes, please.

Josh Pack 41:24
That nobody knows what we're going through. And even, you know, other people that are in wheelchairs, everybody's situation is different. And nobody's walked in our shoes perfectly, but Jesus Christ has. And He knows exactly what it's like for me, individually, personally, to climb into this wheelchair every day and push it around. And knowing that, knowing that there is somebody that knows what I'm going through and knows the tears that I've shed, and the thoughts that I've had, gives me strength to keep going, no matter what.

Morgan Jones
Thank you so much.

We are so grateful to Josh Pack for sharing his story on this week's podcast. If you'd like to read more about Josh's journey, you can visit our show notes for a link to a blog that his family maintained following his accident. As always, those show notes can be found at www.LDSliving.com/allin. We are so grateful to Derek Campbell from Mix At Six Studios for his work on this episode, and we thank you for spending your very valuable time with us.