Ed and Wanda Willis: From Black Panthers to Latter-day Saints

Morgan Jones Pearson

Toward the end of his book, Panther to Priesthood, Ed Willis summarizes the journey he and his wife, Wanda, took in accepting and fully embracing the gospel of Jesus Christ after both had been members of the Black Panther Party.

He said this, "Over time, I realized through personal revelation that my attempts to feel value in life would never succeed if they were determined only by the feelings and behaviors of man. I could not get liberty, freedom, or purpose from any man, whether Black or white, no political or philosophical group could give me what I needed deep inside. I discovered that only Christ Jesus could fulfill what was needed to wash away the burdens that were self-inflicted or systematically placed on and in my life, and to make me whole. I have truly found freedom and liberty through Christ Jesus and the Lord steered me toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints so that I could receive these monumental blessings, " end quote.

Ed Willis was born in West Oakland, California and raised in Oakland and Berkeley. Amid his troubled teen years, Ed was in and out of jail and various high schools. Ed eventually joined the Oakland chapter of the Black Panther Party in the late 1960s. He is married to Wanda Williams, another former member of the Black Panthers, who introduced him to the gospel. He was baptized in 2006, and has served in multiple leadership callings, including on the African American Public Relations Council.

This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to have Ed and Wanda Willis on the line with me today, Ed and Wanda, welcome.

Ed Willis

Thank you.

Wanda Willis

Thank you.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, this is such a treat. I'm so, so, excited to talk to the two of you today, and have been anxiously awaiting this opportunity. I wanted to start with kind of your growing up. So in your book, Ed, you talk about how as a young boy, you had tuberculosis and you were put in the Livermore quarantine facility, which was a place that had previously housed the Japanese during World War Two. What were the conditions like there, and how did that experience affect your life moving forward?

Ed Willis

Well, first of all, the physical setup of it was isolation. And so the whole structure of the place was a setup to keep people apart. Being at the age of five–which was a tender age, of course–I was not allowed to be around my parents. My mother and my father would visit on the weekend. And there was a screen, like a window frame and a screen between us and they would talk to me through there, no touching.

So it was a very isolated situation. Now, at that age, I can't say that I was able to evaluate everything that was going on, except for the feeling of loneliness and sorrow. That was an everyday feeling.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right. Well, and as a five-year-old I can only imagine how hard that must have been to even understand like, what is going on here? You write, "In my early age, race was very confusing. The last six months of my quarantine in the hospital I'd had a white nurse who treated me with tender loving care. But when the shift would change, I had a Black nurse who would treat me roughly."

I think it's interesting, Ed–and we've had several episodes of this podcast where we've talked about race and racism, but I thought it was really interesting throughout your book how you kind of touch on the complexities associated with race, that likely people, especially white people, haven't considered. So I wondered if you could speak to that. What are some of the complexities surrounding race that maybe people like me have never even considered?

Ed Willis

Well, for one thing is . . . it stands out to me, is–it's an old saying, "You're as strong as your weakest link." Have you ever heard that term before?

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah.

Ed Willis

Well, racism is bad socially, it's bad economically, it's bad for the country. If people would realize that racism hurts them personally, maybe in ways that they have not perceived, maybe it would be a motivation for them to start looking at their behavioral and belief processes to try to change that, because–now, particularly people who are members of the church–and not just the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, people who call themselves Christians–the whole idea about Jesus Christ is to love one another. And so the complexities that exist in people's–or let's say, even people's not wanting to get involved, or not speaking up against it, or speaking out against it, makes them compliant, okay.

And if they're okay with things of the world, I can see that, but I don't see how anyone could be. Racism–many Americans who are considered as white may not believe that racism affects their lives, because they are considered as privileged, or they have access to the American dream. But, you know, if you really scrutinize the situation, both socially, economically, politically, and spiritually, you will come up with the answers that you could have a better life if we all got along better and not used race or color as an element of separation.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So, Ed, another thing that you talk about is how urban renewal became a focus where you lived in Oakland, California. And you quote a novelist, James Baldwin, who called it "Negro removal." But then you say this about your mom that I thought was so interesting, you said, your mom managed to get by. “White people liked my mom. She was their kind of Black. We knew how to be racist too, even against our own people. Had good hair? You'd get a little more respect. Lighter skin? Love and adoration. Other Black people would always act on their best behavior around us, my mother exuded the beauty of a Creole goddess, fair, slim, and confident. She spoke her mind to all she met."

Talk to me a little bit about this idea of there being some Blacks who were more respected than others, and how even Blacks can be racist toward other Blacks. And I wondered for the two of you, do you think that that is something that still exists today?

Ed Willis

Well, first of all, let's go back to slavery. Many times, and quite often, the plantation owner who would be white, would impregnate a slave Black woman, and their child would come out much fairer than the mother herself.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

So Malcolm X spoke on this and he called it the ones that work in the field, he called them the "Field," in word, and the ones that worked in the house, he call them the "House," in word, okay. And the ones that worked in the house, would be of a more lighter skin.

Now, there could be an exception to the rule, but in most cases, that was the case. And so there was a form of separation between the two, because it was obvious. One group had more white blood in them than the other group, which had more African blood in them. And so the ones that had more white blood in them would have more privileges.

They would be able to work inside the home, as opposed to being subject to a whip or the butt of a gun in the hot sun of the fields. And so, that kind of behavior became ingrained into the people themselves. I call it a form of psychological slavery, which in so many cases, examples like this cause psychological scars on the people known as African Americans.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

I, you know, my wife and I had a conversation about this recently, and we found that a lot of this has disappeared. Alright, I'm not saying that it has totally disappeared, but now people of–Americans of African descent, I believe are on the same page, if you will, pertaining to the struggles that we face as a people.

And so light or dark, we realized that we were being oppressed by the same group. And we still, even if you're light, there is no full access to the American dream, or neither shade is privilege. So I don't believe that is as paramount now, today, as it once was, but like I say, you could find exceptions to the rule. It depends on–I guess, people's environment or geographics. It might be one way in the South and maybe different with African Americans in the west or the east and so on.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Gotcha, that makes a lot of sense. And it's something I never would have thought about, you know, where that comes from, but that makes so much sense. How do you keep these experiences from affecting your feelings toward white people and how you treat white people in your personal lives?

Ed Willis

Well, one thing–me, personally, my parents never raised me to be racist against white people. So it really starts there. Racism is a taught behavior. And so I was never, I was never taught that. And then, with the whole idea of Jesus Christ being infused in my life, definitely, there's no room for anything like that. It's not even to be considered.

You know, I understand that the enemy, his first and foremost job is to put wedges between us. Whether it's men and women, Black or white, or whatever the case might be–Russian or Croatian or Ukrainian. So, I don't have to really deal with struggling about liking people who are white, because I never had that issue. I did know, I did realize as a child, that whites didn't like me. But I was never taught to dislike them.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah. Well–what you said is so interesting to me about, you know, recognizing that the adversary seeks to divide. And I think that's so true, even amongst life experiences, like I've been single for a long time, and I have seen how sometimes Satan tries to make me feel like, "Oh, well, you can't relate to these people because they're married." And I just think those are lies that Satan tells us and tries to make us feel like we can't–we can't be the same. And I don't think that that's true.

Ed and Wanda, I always love hearing stories of how people met, talk to me about where you both were at that point in your lives.

Ed Willis

She was in the third grade, I was in the fourth grade. She lived–we lived on the same street, she on the opposite side of the street. And she was the only one that was nice to me in the neighborhood because I was a new move in.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Uh huh.

Ed Willis

In the summer. In fact, my first day in that neighborhood, two guys threw rocks at me, and I threw rocks back at them. But she shared with me a–back then they have a thing called a pogo stick. And so she was, she was nice to me. We–our paths crossed again in junior high school.

I was an athlete, and me and the guys who played different athletics–different sports, we decided to call each other by our girlfriend's name, or girls that we were interested in. My name was Priscilla. And the quarterback–I was a wide receiver, football–the quarterback was a very athletic, intelligent guy named Lavore Jenkins. He was the quarterback, we called him "Wanda." Wanda was his girlfriend, and so our roads had crossed several times before–in fact, when Wanda and her family moved back from Los Angeles up to the San Francisco Bay Area, the East Bay, they moved into the same neighborhood. We were only just a few blocks apart. So before that point in time, we had crossed paths on several occasions. Now, you asked something at the end of that question?

Morgan Jones Pearson

Yeah. Tell me a little bit about when your paths crossed that time, which I think is what led to your romantic relationship. Tell me a little bit about where the two of you were at individually at that point in time.

Ed Willis

Well, I can tell you where I was at.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay.

Ed Willis

That day, I had just torn up my induction to the military papers and left them on the floor on Clay St. in downtown Oakland. I was not–I had made a decision that I wasn't going to go to Vietnam. And I walked, I had bus fare, but I walked all the way from downtown Oakland back to Berkeley. And I stopped by my parents house first because I lived about two blocks from them.

And my mother could see something was wrong with me, but I was not going to divulge what I just done. And so I told her, my pop, and my brothers and sisters, "I'll see you later." I walked home and on my way up the street–I lived on Haskell Street, in a upstairs apartment. And I saw this buddy of mine, who I went to school with. He had just been released from the military. He had been stationed in Germany, his name was Wayne.

And I saw him going up the stairs with this gorgeous Black girl walking behind him. And I'm wondering, what is he doing with her? And I knew I had to be going to my apartment, now my roommate he was also friends with as well, because we all went to school together. And so when I called out to him, he said, "Oh! Ed, We was just looking for you."

Because I had this reputation for being able to find high quality marijuana amongst whites, because they had . . . they had the best quality and quantities of marijuana during those times. And in the Black neighborhood, it didn't exist on the same level. But I had a lot of associate and friends who were considered as, "Hippies," and then so was I, that I could just go to and get at a very reasonable price. And Wayne had heard about this. Now, I hadn't seen him since he had been back. But evidently my reputation had preceded me, so he went to seek me out. And that was the beginning of that. Now, Wanda you go ahead, and tell where you was at.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, first, before Wanda gets started, I'm not surprised that you said, "Who is this gorgeous Black woman with him?" Because Wanda, you're still beautiful. That does not surprise me.

Ed Willis

I agree. The Lord was merciful to me.

Wanda Willis

Thank you. Where I was–I lived with my sister. And we lived together and we got high. We smoked. And Wayne came over. And we said we wanted to get something to smoke. And so me and my sister got together and got Wayne together and we went–I said, "I'll go with you to get it." And so we went and we met–we saw Ed. And he came back with us, and he never left.

[Laughter]

He stayed there.

Morgan Jones Pearson

And I want to touch on something really quickly, Ed, that you said. You said–you mentioned "Hippies." And there's something that you said that stood out to me in the book, you wrote, "The liberal dream of Berkeley was a fraud. While the southern whites would talk down to you, the Berkeley whites played it cool with you. They didn't hate the Negro, they loved you, or rather, they loved the symbolism you represented. They might not know or care to know your name. I made them look urban, hip and aware. However, being the token Black friend doesn't pay well."

I thought that this was really insightful for our day today. I've recently heard a story–and it's not a made-up story, it's a real story–that somebody that a friend of mine knows moved into a neighborhood here in Salt Lake, and that they were treated really poorly. And this is a neighborhood that you know, has had "Black Lives Matter" signs all throughout the neighborhood and seems to present themselves as very, very liberal. But I think it's important that we make sure that we're not just talking the talk, like we have to walk the walk as well. And I think kindness is something that should be given to all of God's children, but I wondered for you, what does kindness look like to you, in the context of these conversations? And how do we make sure that we're not just talking the talk?

Ed Willis

Well, okay, one thing I would like to address is that Mike Tyson says, "Everything is okay until you get hit," okay. And so you can have these ideals, you can have an ideology. But when the pushback comes, then where's your stand then?

Morgan Jones Pearson

Or when the rubber meets the road, right?

Ed Willis

Exactly. You take, for instance, like that community you were talking about, and Black Lives Matters signs, but the fact of the matter is, is what really happens to your property value when you get a bunch of people of color moving in? Okay. So, you know, things like that that are deeply embedded into our society–exists. So it's fine and dandy when you say the right thing, and you represent the right thing, but when you have to endure hardships because of your ideals, then that's a different situation.

Now, about talking the talk, as opposed to walking the walk. Love–and particularly in our Church, when I grew up–when I first visited the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I visited my wife's ward. I think at the time, my wife had been in there for over 30 years or whatever. I had been going to this other church, and I went four times and my wife was familiar with the Southern California Los Angeles area, I was not. So she knew about this church, and she knew what kind of church that I was used to going to in the Bay Area. But out of the four times, I went, only one person said good morning to me. Only one.

Wanda Willis

At the church in the Bay area.

Ed Willis

At the–yeah. But so, what I decided one morning, I was already paying tithes to Wanda's ward, dropping money in the mail slot.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Without your name, right?

[Laughter]

Ed Willis

Well, God knew who was giving it. But I decided, okay, I'm going to–let's don't go through all of this travel we have to do to get me to go to this church. They herd people to this room to make them . . . make a documented commitment to 10% of their salary, you know, how much they make on your job. And you know, it was ridiculous. I never did that.

But anyway, so when we went, I noticed that the majority of the members were white. And the way that they were responding to my wife, my sister-in-law, and my granddaughter, was phenomenal. I mean, these people were all over them. Hugs and kisses, and admirations of all sorts. And then me, they were acting like they've known me for 20 years, you know, and I looked at them in the eye and they were legitimately glad that I was there.

And I thought, wow, this is weird! This is weird, you know. And so that was my experience. I never stopped going after that. And now I do know that there is racism of people who have problems with race in the Church.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

The doctrine of the Church does not support racism, but I didn't have that experience. I didn't learn about that until my wife and sister-in-law enlightened me on some things, but they never tried to persuade me in any way about the–about the Church. My wife felt pretty confident since I was seeking God in my life wholeheartedly that she believed that I was going to run smack dab into the priesthood.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that.

Ed Willis

Yeah.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So, the two of you, from what I understand, you didn't really intend to become Black Panthers. You were brought into this in different ways, both of you. And so I wondered, what was it that resonated with you about what the Black Panthers were doing and what they represented?

Wanda Willis

I went to my first Black Panther meeting with Bonnie Porner, we went to school together, and she invited me to a meeting. Because she said, "We can get ourselves together, no matter what we have to do, we'll do it." And so I went to a meeting with her with Huey P. Newton, and I sit in there, and I listened to how we can make a difference. How we can see things be better for us and our children. And, you know, it's always the dream to have the white picket fence and the house, and you know, and we weren't there.

Ed Willis

The American dream.

Wanda Willis

I wanted to be in the American dream and live it because I lived here. And so that was my experience with joining the Panther party.

Ed Willis

Well with me, it was about dignity, because . . . number one, my mom always told me, you know, look a person in the eye. You know, and just because the person was white, you do not have to look down to the ground. And so I kind of grew up with that. But this was a different kind of representation.

This was . . . well, let me start here. There was a lot of things that happened when the Black Panther came into fruition. And one of those things was education. They made sure that we understood what items to read to educate about–educate ourselves about the participation in this American dream. What things our ancestors did to bring about this America that we don't have full access to. The different sacrifices, the different hero and heroines that took place by many Blacks in this country, of all kinds.

And, you know, you begin to realize that the negative things that your race has been portrayed through the media, and through literature, and then the social contexts of not having access, you know, you begin to realize that you do have value, and that this value has been kept from you. And so the Black Panther Party gave me a fresh hope of dignity, and that I was going to be willing to die for this cause.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So, one thing–I obviously didn't grow up during that era, but I was talking to my coworker, who said, you know, that he remembered everything that was going on at that time, and he said, you know, Panthers were perceived by white people as evil. But he realized in reading your book, that there was a side to the movement that drew you to it that was very different than what maybe white people have traditionally perceived.

And you both ended up leaving when you felt like the more violent side of the party took over. But what would you say–I know, Wanda, you were involved in like the lunch program–

Wanda Willis

Breakfast program.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Breakfast program, that's right. Okay. So you were involved with the breakfast program and some of these things that maybe people are not familiar with. So what would you say there's more than maybe meets the eye as far as Black Panthers go?

Wanda Willis

Well, we started the breakfast program in schools, and our duty was to go to the different stores in the neighborhood and ask them to donate eggs and bread and then we would take it back over to the school and we would prepare breakfast for the kids.

And it was just really wonderful to see the kids have breakfast, have a meal, and to know that you were able to give that to them. The other thing–I really just wanted to see a change. I was fed up with people not liking me because of my color and hurting me and making comments and making me feel as though I needed to move to another side.

I grew up in a home where both my sisters were lighter than me. And they treated me like I was like little royalty in the house. I was the baby, so they treated me good. So when I got out into the world, and people treated me different than what my family had treated me, I said, "No, this is not right. And I need to try and do something about it."

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

Well, the Black Panther Party provided legal aid. They provided senior citizen services, they provided medical clinic services, and they do transportation for elders as well. They had all of these different services contained in the various communities, you know, colonialized Black neighborhoods, all around the nation, to be able to determine their own destiny. And so the media is what projected the Black Panthers as evil.

You know, what they say about hindsight, I see the evil element in it now. But at the time, it was born out of need to have representation and protection. And so the media would sort of insinuate whether it was in written literature or over the air, that the Black Panther Party wanted to kill white people.

But in fact, the Peace and Freedom Party were our allies, which was predominantly white. There were Blacks in that organization, too. There were many white people who were affiliated with the Black Panther Party, as well as Hispanics and Asian as well. But yes, the organization was predominantly Black.

But our mission was not about race, it was–it was political, not racial, you see. What made it racial was the status quo. That is what made it–the need to have an organization like this born. And there were other organizations at the time that were trying to, you know, Martin Luther King too! But see it was obvious to many of us, that this road, this peaceful road would bring billy clubs to your hair, and water hoses and dogs sicked on you, and still thrown in jail because you wanted to vote.

So if Martin Luther King if a gentle soul that was, let's say, akin to, like, almost a Gandhi was getting beat up and thrown in jail, then what other resource or what other . . .What other ways can we respond to this oppression? And so now, I'm just giving you what the logic was, to respond to another response.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

I'm not trying to justify it. I'm just giving you the examples of how things happen in the channels they happen in.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right, so talk to me now about your decision to leave the Black Panther Party.

Ed Willis

Well, mine was quite different than Wanda's, but Wanda's sort of was a seed. I'm going to let her explain that to you and then I'll pick it up from where she lives off.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay.

Ed Willis

It was about the women in the Black Panther Party.

Wanda Willis

I saw a bunch of young women, you know, teenagers, young adults, being abused, and misused and I did not like that. I didn't want to be a part of any organization that abused young girls and women like that.

Ed Willis

So Wanda came and told me about this, and she was through with it. Now, I believed her, but that didn't cause me to quit. And I think probably the reason why it didn't cause me to quit, because I was still kind of angry.

There were different situations that I just happened to be in, because all I was, was a soldier. I never gave speeches or anything like that, I was a soldier and I collected weapons, okay. And I was waiting for guerrilla warfare. But I was put in these different situations that were very unpleasant. And it made me see the cracks in the organization.

And so by what Wanda had told me and these other things that I was beginning to experience began to be very disheartening. And it eventually got to the point where I threw up my hands and said, "I'm through with this."

Let me just top it off by saying this, there were also incidences of Panthers killing Panthers, okay. Because the paranoia of people being informants.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

And so that's where the escalation of violence happened. It was within the organization.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Interesting. Okay. So I–one thing that I really loved about reading your book is that you and Wanda, you two have this beautiful love story. And I think it's interesting to see how you two just kept appearing in each other's lives, while also independently evolving and feeling a desire and a pull toward the Savior.

Can you tell listeners a little bit about how you split up pretty early on in your relationship, and then you ended up coming back together, and you were at a pretty different place in your lives by the time you came back together? Can you tell those listening a little bit about that?

Ed Willis

Well, when we were together–when we actually considered ourselves a couple, we lived with a what you call "Common law." And neither one of us was 21 years old, we weren't even– I was 19 I believe.

Wanda Willis

When we first got together.

Ed Willis

When we first got together, domestically. And so the thing is, is that our parents did everything that they possibly could to keep a roof over our head, and keep our bellies fit and clothed. And so they had to go through things that we have no idea about, until we got older. But they really didn't teach us about relationships.

A lot of things that parents should do, Americans of African descent really didn't have time for. And then it was that old unspoken thing about adult business and child business, they don't mix. You know, so Blacks didn't really, in our time during the 50s and 60s, go through. . . and I'm not saying all, but generally speaking about relationships and how you can be mature in relationships.

You know, Wanda and I weren't. We were just kids. And we still had selfishness about ourselves. There was, you know . . .not willing to sacrifice for the sake of someone else or the other, those immaturities caused us to split. And then you also have the jealousies of outside influence. Because Wanda and I, we had–the physical setup, we lived in pretty decent places and we had acquired things that a lot of youth our age were aspiring to have. And we did it with teamwork, but still, there was some things lacking in our character as far as being able to have a wholesome and standing relationship.

Now, even though we split up, we were not what you would call estranged. Because her first child, her daughter, Tracy, I became daddy to when she was like two years old. And then we had a child, Jenga. And so there would be times that I would come to Southern California to visit or when Wanda was going to the University of Washington, she was living in student housing, I went up there to visit you know, and then she'd visited me, we went to a jazz festival or two together so we weren't–

Morgan Jones Pearson

You were still on speaking terms.

Ed Willis

Right? Right. We weren't at odds with each other, but also in the process. I have never gotten married, nor do she, to anyone. There was a lot of years that passed.

Wanda Willis

34 years.

Ed Willis

Yeah.

Wanda Willis

34 years pass. And Ed called me and we were talking. And I asked him, when was he going to visit his other family? And he said, "Okay, when I get a chance." Well, his mom passed away. And when she passed away his sister called me, told me she had passed away. And I said, you know, "Come down here, come to LA and relax." And just, you know, because when you lose your mom it's really complicated.

So I said, "Come and relax." I was talking to Ed's sister. And she said, "Okay." So she called me about two, three days later and said, "Ed would like to come." And I said, "Okay, he can come. That's fine." And so he came. And the whole family, the sister and my nieces, they all came. And I'll just skip to this–while he was there, I was upstairs in my bedroom and he was downstairs in the living room, and I looked down in the living room, and Ed was on his knees, praying.

And I went, "Oh, wow. This is different. This is a different Ed." He was on his knees praying. I had joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I had been a member, probably about 30 years. And when he came to visit, he was altogether different. And I felt I still loved him, and he felt he still loved me. And so we decided that we would court each other by way of phone. He went back to Oakland, and then he ended up moving back to my house. And we remain faithful to each other and to God, and we decided to get married.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Amazing. I'm very glad that that worked out.

Wanda Willis

Yeah.

Ed Willis

I gotta add something. When I was on this quest–now I had been involved with churches before, of different denominations never joined a Church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the first Church I ever joined. And I've actually gone on a couple of missions with churches, with a group from church.

I was in a, a Christian contemporary band, where we ministered on the beach of Waikiki to people who were hungover and party animals from the Saturday night before, to minister the gospel, but I never, like I said, wasn't a member. As a matter of fact, I was baptized in Hawaii, and became what they call a, "Born again." But I never actually technically joined that church.

But anyway, so in my quest, to . . . I guess you can say "Find God," because I knew God existed. I just needed more in my life. I stopped smoking cigarettes. Because–my reason for stopping smoking wasn't because I might catch cancer. My reason to stop smoking was because it might interfere with my relationship with God because it was a bondage.

And so I decided, I loved living in California, in the Bay Area. I liked to the wine country. I love good wine. I also loved cognac. And I would collect them, as a matter of fact, but I gave that up. And I loved imported beers, and I gave that up too, because it might interfere with my relationship with God.

And I love coffee. But I don't mean like Maxwell House or Hills Brothers coffee. I mean coffee from Sumatra, coffee from Kenya, a coffee from Kona, very strong coffee, or coffee from Haiti, you know, to kind to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, that kind of coffee. But I gave that up because, you know, it might interfere also, because I like to smoke a cigarette with these coffees. So I gave that up too.

Now, I didn't know anything about the Word of Wisdom at the time. But I always tell people in conversations or in talks that I have been a part of, that me being a Mormon was a setup. God set me up. He had me living the Word of Wisdom before I even joined the Church.

So when Wanda and I got married, I was already living the Word of Wisdom. When we got married, I was already given tithes to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So when I cried out to the Lord for His help, in the name of Jesus, and it was a repent-ive prayer, and cried out, the Lord already had it set up for me to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and there's no other way for me to look at it, but that way.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, and I think the incredible part and I should have asked a question about this, because that was one of my favorite parts of the book was you talking about how you were able to overcome these addictions that you had, you know, very quickly, which is just unbelievable.

Wanda, like you said, you were a member of the Church for 30 years before Ed ended up joining the Church. You struggled a bit with the gospel, you were in and out of the Church for a bit, what was it that you struggled with? And what was it that ultimately led you back into the Church?

Wanda Willis

Well, it wasn't with the gospel, it was with people.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Okay.

Wanda Willis

People had a problem with my skin color, and they would make comments or they'd do things or they'd say things or–and it was very . . . it was very, very difficult to go to Church and somebody didn't want you to sit next to them or they don't want, you know, I had bad things happen like that. And but when I look at all the good things that happen it overshadows the bad things.

So I became inactive, and I didn't go to Church. And one night I was sitting in my living room, and in my mind I heard, "It's time to go back to Church." I was going to church on the way, going to different churches throughout Southern California, and feeling, still feeling void. And something said, "It's time for you to go back to Church. "

And in my voice I said, "No. I'm not going back there. Those people over there were racist, bigots, and I don't want to have nothing to do with them. I don't want to spend my week working, and then my Sunday, you know, sitting with people who don't even want to sit with me." And something whispered, "It's time for you to go."

And so my sister came downstairs, "Who are you talking to?" And I said, "I think I'm talking to God, He wants me to go to Church, I'm not going." And she said, "Well, you better go to Church, if you think it's God." And so I went to Church that Sunday. And some lady named Wanda walked up to me. And she said, "I'm so glad to see you back at Church, we really need you. We need you here." And it touched my heart.

And I said, "Oh, okay, I'm going to Church." I decided I was gonna go to this Church, and I made a decision to stand up and give a testimony, that if you don't like me because of my skin color, I'm the one that misses out. I missed out by not being here. I need to be here, because this is something me and my mom looked for, for years. And we have arrived and I will not deprive myself of my relationship with my Heavenly Father anymore. I'm not going to go searching, I know where it is. So I've been a member now for 45 years and it's the best thing I've ever done in my entire life. And I'm so very, very grateful that my Heavenly Father saw fit to allow me to be a part of this.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Thank you so much, Wanda. That was beautiful. The progression from Panther to priesthood is something that is almost unfathomable, that someone could change that much in a lifetime. I think–I think that's the reason you're book title will catch people's attention, and it's a true story. How do you both view the evolution of your lives?

Ed Willis

Well, first of all, Jesus can change you in a blink of an eye. And, actually, to His time, my time is about a blink of an eye.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right.

Ed Willis

And so I just realized that I have been equipped with some interesting nuggets of wisdom along the way because of the trials and tribulations and bad and good decisions that I've been through that has prepared me to be of service. And, you know, various ways–maybe even ways I haven't even got to yet.

I believe–there's this saying that I have, when I first moved in with Wanda and my sister-in-law, I would say, "The Lord's got me in high cotton." And I use that same terminology pertaining to the Church, especially when He's had me serve in such wonderful ways. One being in high council. But how about just the Melchizedek priesthood? You know, my goodness, "Who, me?" You know. I've looked for value, I couldn't find it. As a child I couldn't find it in the Black community, and when we moved to a predominantly white community, I couldn't find it there.

My value came when Jesus saved me. So, you know, there's no amount of value that a man can give me that's equal to that. And so, now, it matters not to me that I happen to be an American of African descent. It might to those who are considered as white or Caucasian, but I think we all come to the mercy seat with issues. All of us got issues. And all–all of us got a story too, you know.

And I'm hoping that Wanda and my story–it's really miraculous–but it can, it can edify somebody. I remember when I first started reading the Bible seriously, I read about King David. I thought, "Oh, my goodness," because I read where he was the man after God's own heart. And after I read stories about Kind David I said, "Oh, man, this guy got a shot, I got a shot."

You know, and so–not to even put myself on his level. But I'm just saying it gave me hope. And so I'm just praying, you know, for me, a poor guy who started off my feelings have been that . . . is my life started off was in a place called the lower bottom. And it's still called that today, the lower bottom and Wanda and I went back and visited that spot where I lived with my mom behind the cleaners, you know, that place doesn't exist anymore. And there's a bunch of yuppies moving in.

But you can still see the scars of the community there with drug addiction and alcoholism and prostitution and what have you. But the fact of the matter is, the enemy had that in store for me. Well, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ has something totally different in store for me. So it's literally night and day.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right. Absolutely. Well, I so appreciate both of you sharing your testimonies and your wisdom with us. My last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Ed Willis

You want to go first sweetheart?

Wanda Willis

You go first.

Ed Willis

Well, okay. What it is, I'll use the word again, it's miraculous. Because being all in has eternal implications. And those eternal implications are far beyond anything that you can imagine in a temporal sense. You know, we–my wife and I, our family, we live good and we know that just because everything that we have that is good comes from God.

And, but we know that if we remain faithful, what's in store for us, is not even measurable to how we live now. We live comfortably now. Right, thank God, okay. And I'm not saying that there's not challenges along the way, cannot live this life without challenges, we're still in probation.

But I can say, to be all in is eternal and everlasting. And so the key to it is the faithfulness, you know. And so in spite of our–or my–character defects, I've got to go with everything and just rely on God's mercy and His grace.

And you know, He is a gentle God. As we know, in the Old Testament, He talk about how angry God gets, "Woe to the man who falls in the hand of the Almighty God," you know, well that ain't me. That's not me. I'm the person that is so grateful that He has turned my life–I'm with my childhood sweetheart! I mean, it don't get better than that, does it? Well, at least not for me. I mean, I mean, who can write this stuff? You know what I'm saying?

But like I said, everybody has a story. And everybody can look at themselves and see if there's something about them that's not quite up to snuff, but that's the stuff that you prayed about, and you'd ask God to help you with. You know, and I believe. I believe that everyone who confesses Jesus Christ, who believes, trusting God, they will be sanctified. So no matter what people might think of me, I'm on my way to purity, because that's the way God wants it. He wants me back, just like He wants everybody else back.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Thank you, Ed. Wanda?

Wanda Willis

For me, when I look at my husband, and I say, "I have you for eternity. And you have me for eternity." And if our kids agree, our kids can be there. And my mom and my dad, and it feels so good to . . . know everything. You don't have to wonder about anything. God's given us the perfect plan and all we need to do is follow it, to have happiness throughout eternity. Uchtdorf always said, "Happily ever after." We can be happily ever after. And I know it in my heart, in my soul. Because I see him doing things in my life that makes me so happy. And so I'm in. Or as my husband would say, "I drank the Kool Aid."

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love it so much. And both of you, you have such beautiful smiles and countenances and thank you so much for sharing who you are with us.

Wanda Willis

Thank you.

Ed Willis

It was our pleasure.

Morgan Jones Pearson

We are so grateful to Wanda and Ed Willis for joining us on today's episode you can find Ed's book, Panther to Priesthood in Deseret Book stores now. Big thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six studios for his help with this episode. And thank you so much for listening. We'll be with you again next week.