Conlon and Rachel Bonner: Coping With the Death of a Child

Morgan Jones Pearson

On January 1 2023, as the world was celebrating the dawning of a new year and all the possibilities that it would bring, Conlon and Rachel Bonner awoke to a parent's worst nightmare. Their 9-month-old baby Joshua had passed away. In the months since Joshua's passing the Bonners have shared their witness again and again that this life is not the end and that they know they will see their Joshua again. Conlon Bonner is a member of the performing group, The Bonner Family, who have traveled nationally and internationally, sharing their message of faith in Christlike love. He worked as a seminary teacher for six years and is now a diversity, equity and inclusion consultant for various municipalities, school districts and corporations in Utah. Rachel Bonner grew up in Texas and Brazil, the seventh of nine children. She has worked as a music teacher, real estate investor, Portuguese immersion teacher and senior MTC tutor. She is a proud mother of six children and loves to play games, bake, make crafts, and serve. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am honored to have Conlon and Rachel Bonner on the line with me today, Conlon and Rachel, welcome.

Conlon Bonner

Thank you so much, Morgan.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, I am so honored and feel so lucky to be the one to get to have this conversation with you all. And just, I want to start by saying how much I have appreciated both of you. And not just in the past four or five months, I have admired both of you for a long time. And I think as we talk together today, other people will see why. They will be amazed by your faith and example just like I have been, but I wanted to start this is like a selfish thing. But I wondered if you could tell me tell us a little bit about your family. And specifically, I'd love to know how the two of you met.

Conlon Bonner

Take that one, Rachel, yes.

Rachel Bonner

It's a fun, funny thing because you can both be present in a certain time and yet have different perceptions of how things happen. But we met on January 2, of what 2011?

Conlon Bonner

That's right. And anyways, we met because in my ward, it was a big singles ward at BYU. And there were two Relief Societies and I had been in one for the fall semester. And then I got called to be Relief Society president of the other one. But I didn't know anybody in that one. And it was just after Christmas break and not many people were back yet. But his sister Oyoyo was back. And so I went over, I asked if I could come over and meet her. And so I went to her after church, and Conlon was there, and I made sure he wasn't her boyfriend. And then I thought I did a really good job of talking and getting to know Oyoyo and also Conlon and a little flirting, but you know, and then she ended up talking to me more than she talked to Oyoyo.

Rachel Bonner

That's what Oyoyo's perception was and then afterwards, I added them both on Facebook to not be creepy. And then I thought he would get the hint that then he would start talking to me, but he didn't. So I waited patiently for a week. And then I took matters into my own hands. And I reached out to him. And they were both in the play "Hairspray" at the Orem Hale Theatre at the time. So I asked him how rehearsals were going. And he said, they're great. He said, have you seen the movie? And I said, Yeah, I haven't. We should watch it some time. And then he got the hint and he's like oh! So then he sent me a message and said, Hey, let's go out to get frozen yogurt or dinner sometime. Here's my number. Give me a call. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? Okay, that's too many details. But anyways, that's how we met. It was his sister Oyoyo and trying to magnify callings and Facebook.

Conlon Bonner

It was actually a quick story. We met in January, got engaged in less than two months. And then two months later after that, we get married. And so from January to May was our whole meet and married story.

Rachel Bonner

And now almost 12 years later, six kids. Yeah, life is

Conlon Bonner

is wonderful. You know, we've been through so much, you know, which is fascinating and we've experience so much joy, and so much interesting trials, but we're so grateful that we have each other. And we're grateful that we basically got to know each other well enough to get a sense of the faith that Rachel, that I saw that Rachel had, she had so much faith, and she showed it and just the history of her life and her family, it was just a clear winner. I'm like, Okay, I need to make sure I'm qualified for her. So that was a cool experience for us.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, I'll start by saying, Rachel that that description brings back some some dating memories that I don't know, if you feel the same, I'm like you could not pay me to go back to that experienc of like what is he thinking? What is happening here? But I also want to say, Okay, I have this clear memory, in my mind, of General Conference last October, my husband and I were pulling up to turn on to North Temple. And all of a sudden, we see, literally the world's cutest family crossing the street. And it was like ducks in a row, like all of you guys and your kids. And they are just so darling. And so precious. And so I feel like I have this like very special place in my heart just because of that little memory. But I guess to start us off and kind of set the stage for this conversation. I wondered if you could tell us a little bit about Joshua.

Conlon Bonner

Oh, my goodness. It's amazing how well everyone took to Joshua, when he came in, he completed the family with the the three boys three girls, and so we kind of left that a mystery.

Rachel Bonner

Yeah, he was a surprise. We didn't know his gender and he was our last one. And so everybody was trying to guess what they thought, if he was going to be a boy or girl and Ben especially really wanted a little brother. And he got his little brother. He got Joshua and he was so loved and he gave so much love that little boy. You couldn't be around him and not feel loved. He loved anybody and everybody to hold him, he'd just give him a big ol smile. He was so patient, you know? Being the sixth of, we had six kids under nine when he was born and and he's just so patient, right? He's just in his car seat and letting me take care of everybody else's needs. They're a lot louder and more verbal than he was and he would just sit back and be so, so loving. He's just like, Yeah, I'll just wait my turn. And anyways, we just love him.

Conlon Bonner

He always had such such joy in his eyes. And we would, we would constantly say, this is a good baby. You know, like, wow, like this one.

Rachel Bonner

They were all, they really were, we had all good babies. But he was like, I don't know. Maybe just like an added, he had a little bit of heaven.

Conlon Bonner

But yeah, we said that constantly. Like what a good baby, and so we felt such love from him. But we also felt like it was a gift. He was a gift.

Rachel Bonner

We were blessed to be his parents.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well I want to talk about Joshua and I want to talk about your experience. As I was preparing for this, I watched the video that you all did for Shauna Edwards with the music video Conlon that you were in. And one of the things that stood out to me was you talked about the night before, and how you guys had just had like the best night with your family. And I feel like that's the thing about things like this is we often don't see them coming. And we can have this these like amazing memories and amazing nights and we just expect that to keep going. But it seemed like you all had kind of cherished that day before. And so I wondered, as you have dealt with the reality of this situation, you said that your family the next day you woke up Joshua had passed away, and your family decided to go to church. And you said, you immediately turned to the Lord, that there was no hesitation. I was amazed that you said you went to church that day. So what is it about the two of you and your nature or preparation that made that your instinctual response in the face of something that you never could have seen coming?

Conlon Bonner

Yeah, I appreciate that. I've looked back at some of the experiences of our past even before that experience, moments where we've had, we were even scammed at one point, you know, and, and that took us to the Lord. We've had experiences, even with church that, that required us to rely on His direction and see the miracles happen because of His direction. When I say that, I served as a bishop, Rachel served as Relief Society president multiple times. And I knew, for me, I knew that God can make anything better. He can help any circumstance in any hardship, and even turn the hardship into a blessing/an opportunity for growth. And so when a moment like this happens, which is the hardest thing that I've ever experienced, I knew exactly where to turn. I also grew up with my family, living on prayer, living on a prayer feels like Bon Jovi. But seriously, I feel like I don't know any other way to handle hard times or direction other than going to the Lord, and finding out what to do next. So when we find out that he is no longer living, and there's nothing else that we can do at that moment, yes, it is on our knees, we need prayer. We need to give everyone a blessing to handle the situation. We need more of our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ than we can ever imagine. And so, yes, we're going to church. Absolutely. Because that's a way to feel the spirit, renew these covenants allow us to be in line with Him so we can get as much healing and peace that he can offer us at this time, though.

Rachel Bonner

Yeah, I feel like there's no hardship, that won't be harder without Jesus. Whatever you're going through, if you have God in your life, you can get through it. And without Him, it's just like, you're an open ocean, and there's nothing. You're just on your own. Like, Conlon said, we've had some experiences together and also individually as we've been growing up that have just...God has just shown us time and time again that He will help us when we turn to Him. And just now as Conlon was talking and what came to my mind was a line from "Where Can I Turn For Peace," that hymn that says, "Who? Who can understand? He only one." And it's been really eye-opening for us to learn after this experience so many people that have lost children and other loved ones, you know, that this is such a crazy grief, and how many people have gone through it also. But you know, they're all different, right? Different circumstances, different relationships, everything like that. But the one person that knows exactly how we're feeling is our Savior, because He felt it. And so that's such a comfort to know that when I feel alone, that I know that I can go to Him, whether it is in prayer, or going to church or whatever, you know, how I can feel Him close to me. That's where I need to go.

Conlon Bonner

And the Lord has been so good to us. He has been so good with every child that we have been given, with opportunities in life, with our relationships and just the many blessings that we can just count. We just know how good the Lord is. And so there's no blaming Him. There's no doubting Him in any way. It's, okay, Lord, if this is what's happening, what do we do? How do we handle it from here? You know, because you know better than I. Your ways are higher than our ways. And so yes, you know, we know that you can make things, right. And so how do we get through this? What's the next step? And it's interesting because you never know how you're going to react with a situation like this. I had no idea. I could wish for strength and everything, but I'm like, I don't, I don't know what that experience would be like, until we went through it. And then all of a sudden, it's like, okay, here we go. This is where faith comes in. And I'm going to show the Lord where I'm at. And I am so proud of Rachel, I'm proud of my children. I'm proud that the Lord has has strengthened us and got us through it, to where we're not paralyzed by this experience, we are seeing what the Lord would have us do, and I can't thank you enough, Morgan, for allowing us to even be here to share this experience, to allow such good to come from it hopefully. You know, that people will see that, hey, death really isn't the end, the eternal perspective is so needed. And that's exactly what we are living on: this eternal perspective that is allowing us to move forward and to continue to do His work and knowing that we will see our little one again.

Rachel Bonner

It is so interesting, because in our little finite understanding, right, death really is a sad thing. You know, I mean, it's sad, because we miss the person, and even if we know about the plan of salvation, and we know, we'll see them again, it's hard to be without them for who knows how long we're going to be without them. But anyways, I've read this book, after Joshua passed away, called "The Message" and it was one brothers experience of a near death experience. And one part just really struck me of how excited everybody was that's already passed on, when someone else was coming. And it was a celebration. It's exciting. It's like, wow, you graduated, you're going on to the next step in your eternal progression. And so that was really helpful to me to kind of almost flip my perspective on its head and see death...that it's not, it's not a sad thing. It's Wow, Joshua did it. He did what he needed to do. And now he's moving on. And that's awesome. That's so great.

Conlon Bonner

Doesn't change the missing him, of course, but heaven has never looked so sweet. You know, I cannot wait to get there. I want to make sure I'm living right so that I can get there so that our whole family can get there. He is motivation. He is almost like a guiding light to hold on tight to our covenants to our, to our knowledge of what is right to do our very best and to help others along the way. Because I have to, I got to get in, I'll be at the pleading bar. And I'll be saying, Lord, please, please forgive me. And I'll be trying to repent along the way, but I cannot wait to embrace our little one. It will be a an epic reunion, I believe.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, as I was listening to you here both talk it reminded me of a couple of things that I have loved over the years, when I was a missionary. I became familiar a little bit due to some kind of conference talk with CS Lewis and his story about his wife passing away. And he has a book called "A Grief Observed" and in that, Conlon, when you were talking about you know, you imagine the way that you'll handle a situation like this how you'll respond, but you never really know and CS Lewis in that "A Grief Observed" said, "You never know how much you really believe anything until it's truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you. It is easy to say you believe a rope to be strong and sound as long as you are merely using it to cord a box. But suppose you had to hang by that rope over a precipice, wouldn't you then first discover how much you really trusted it?" And I think that we don't we just don't know, until we're in a situation where we're relying on our faith in a way that we've never relied on it before. And I think that's one of the reasons that I admire the two of you is, your faith stood ready for this experience. And I'm sure you don't feel that way. But that has been my impression. And then the other thing that it reminded me of when you're we're talking about your reunion, and also about "The Message," Rachel, when you were saying, you know, the loved ones that have gone before us are waiting to to welcome us home. And you all have probably heard the poem where Henry Van Dyke writes about standing on a seashore and seeing a ship go off until you can't see the ship anymore. And obviously, it's still there, but it's gone from our sight. And then it refers to the ship as a she but it says, "Just at the moment, when someone at my side says, there she is gone. There are other eyes watching her coming, and other voices ready to take up the glad shout, 'Here she comes.' And that is dying." And I think that I just think that's a beautiful thought, the idea that just as much as we are heartbroken, there are other people that have been waiting for that moment to welcome someone that they love home. I wondered for you all, as you've dealt with this experience with grief and you have older children who all love this baby so much how have your kids dealt with grief? And what have you learned about helping children deal with grief?

Rachel Bonner

Well, you know, I think we're still learning. I feel like we probably won't, won't know until they're all grown up, and then they'll tell us how we messed up. But we're doing the best that we know how, and relying on the Spirit to help direct us. So many people have given us different books about grief and about how Jesus allows us to see our loved ones again, and different things. And so those have been great that we've read with them. But it's just interesting, I mean, there's a wide range of ages, right from two is their youngest one now, that's right above Joshua, and then all the way up to 10. So there's lots of varying degrees of understanding and they're all unique, each child is unique. And so they all process things differently and react in different ways and even at different times. They can change and same with us as we're processing grief. And so, I think the biggest thing has just been to be patient and loving, whether it's anger, or whether it's crying—go cry with them—just hold them, you know? Just so that they know that they're not alone. Like it's okay to miss him. It's okay to cry, it's okay to feel whatever you're feeling, you know, but we continue to go back to our Savior, and to the promise of what is to come.

Conlon Bonner

Yeah, yeah. And the grief shows itself in so many different ways of sadness, of anger, of no motivation, or I gotta keep myself busy so much that I can't even think, there's so many different ways that even within our family, we're trying to navigate and we're trying to be patient with one another, and give each other some grace on trying to figure it out because we all are dealing with it in different ways. But we know that we need the Lord constantly in this, and we try to learn as much as we can about this. We even talked to a grief counselor to try to make sure that we're doing things grieving fully and grieving properly. You know, we, we want to make sure that, that we're doing okay, and trying to do the best we can for our kids, for each other for ourselves. And I know that the Lord has really offered so many great ways for our healing. I love seeing my kids really process this in a way that allows them to come closer to the Lord. Our little girl goes up and bears her testimony. I don't think she's ever done that in a way where it's just her self motivated way or her 10 year old self just goes on up and bears her testimony about how we'll see our loved ones again, she talked about Joshua and it was beautiful, seeing prayers being made, they each of our prayers feel a little different. They feel like they have an extra relationship with the Lord. Like something has happened to where the Lord gets it. It's hard to kind of explain, but in my experience, I feel like the Lord and I went through something together so it made our relationship even more tender. He knows that I've lost a son, I know that He lost a son. And He's kind of helped me through it in a way, you know. And it's, it's, it's made the relationship even more sweet, between Heavenly Father and myself. And my gratitude for Jesus Christ has amplified to where I cannot wait to thank Him for for allowing us to be reunited again, to have resurrection, I can hold him again.

Rachel Bonner

Yeah. And, you know, so many people gave us so many great ideas to like, we were able to take some of Joshua's clothes and make a little bear out of them. So we have our little Joshua bear, that our kids can go and hold when they feel like they want to give him a hug. And we have a little box that has some of his little things that we remember him with in there. We're finishing up a little space in our house that that was where he slept, and we're turning it into our Joshua oasis. So it has different things to remember him by, it has like a little heart shaped little waterfall, to have some peacefulness that way, and we'll have a digital picture frame or we can just sit in there and just look and all the videos and pictures of him whenever we want to feel close to him. So that's almost finished. So we're really grateful for everything, for everyone that has helped out to make these things possible, because I think that they'll be really helpful in helping our family to stay close to Joshua and keep his memory alive.

Conlon Bonner

And allow us to process the way that we need to process and to support each other in that process. So if someone's in there, I look forward to just hugging them while they're in there. If they need space, then I'll give them space, you know, but at the same time, I'm so grateful that we do have each other in this process. We're not, we're not alone with each other. We're not alone, with the many people who have reached out and offered their support, their service, their love and their prayers. It's been beautiful.

Rachel Bonner

Yeah, really humbling.

Morgan Jones Pearson

One thing that I have found interesting in interviewing people that have gone through difficult things is seems like it kind of shifts your idea and your perspective of what it means to mourn with those that mourn. When you experience it in action from the way that so many different people. I think people mourn with those that mourn in so many different ways. And so I wondered, I've seen posts from different members of your family, but what has that support meant for you and what have you learned about mourning with those that mourn?

Conlon Bonner

It tells me that the Lord knows us. He's there with us in every step of the way. So therefore, He'll send his wonderful inspired angels with such great hearts to come comfort us to, to mourn with those that mourn, to do what Jesus Christ did. When we think of Lazarus, and Jesus Christ cries with Mary and Martha. And I'm so grateful for the people who have cried with us who have prayed for us, who has served us in our home and given so much.

Rachel Bonner

I think the main thing is to, although like some things have been more helpful than others, I feel like when the Spirit prompts you to do something, go and do it, you know, and don't let don't let the fear of like, 'oh, I don't want to say something wrong' or whatever, like, don't let that paralyze you into not doing anything because they will feel of your love and your desire to be there for them. And I think that's, I think that's the biggest thing and now that we've gone through this, we want to be better at that we want to reach out to people because we received so much love and kindness and and we want to pay that forward.

Conlon Bonner

Yeah, you know, and Rachel has been so inspired lately to where she's always inspired. Don't get me wrong. She wants to serve those around us, even as we have been served. We went on a trip. When I say trip, I mean, we got in the car, we just took a drive to find people who need blankets. And so we'd just drive around and we'd see somebody on cold winter days or when the snow is falling, because over here in Utah man, it just snowed randomly and got really cold when it should have been springtime. And so she put in some good blankets in the car, and we just drove around and found people to give those to and they were so grateful. It was like, like heaven directed us, to these people. Even when we passed up one, we're like, oh, well, maybe not that one. And then we come back, and there that person was again, and we'd give it to him. And they were so grateful for it too. So it was like, wow, okay, the Lord knows what He's doing. Let's just keep on going. So I just love that, that when we just do when we just serve. That's where the Lord does His great work.

Rachel Bonner

Yeah, like Sister Hinckley said, you know, never suppress a generous thought. And yeah, we've had people that we don't even know, people that we've never met in this life come come over, send us things, just so, so much charity. And it's just, it's been really beautiful. And our hearts have been really full from that.

Morgan Jones Pearson

For sure. Well, and I know you mentioned earlier that it's so fresh that you don't know long-term how this will affect your family. But I also think when we go through hard things, and you mentioned this early on Conlon, even just talking about your marriage how you all have been through things that you never would have imagined going through. And I think those types of things are the things that have the ability to bring us together as couples or the ability to tear us apart. I wondered, how has this strengthened kind of your respect for one another? And how has navigating this grief strengthened your marriage?

Rachel Bonner

Yeah, well, Conlon has been amazing. Just from the get go, immediately after we realized that Joshua had passed on his first thought was, 'Rachel, would you like a blessing?' And he's been so patient with me, because you know, it's like ups and downs all the time. And just without warning, just never know when they're gonna hit. But he's been so patient and caring to pick up the slack. You know, when I'm having a hard time and being patient with me when I'm grouchy for no apparent reason. He is so amazing. I'm so grateful to have it, like, can't imagine going through this without him. My mom, she always would say when she was growing up, that she wanted to marry somebody who loved the Lord as much as she did. And so I made that kind of my goal too. And if I found him, that's all I needed to know when we met. He knew that he loved the Lord. And he was gonna put him first. And we've had such a blessed life. Such a blessed marriage. And it really is amazing. I love seeing him as a father, I love seeing, just he is incredible. I don't have a lot of really good words to express it. But he is amazing. And he's the best companion that I could have.

Conlon Bonner

My gosh, well, Rachel is the best. If anything I'm trying to make up for lost time, you know? Because, my gosh, it hurts to see her hurting. Because it's hard. You know, this is not fun. It really isn't. And dealing with it is so tricky. I want to do something and she's like, No, I don't need to do that or she wants to do something. I'm like, No, I don't feel like I need to do that. But we want to support each other, you know, in everything. And so we're trying to navigate this, but at the same time, man, Rachel has been so inspiring with all the different things that she's teaching our children from this experience, I am so grateful to jump in on what she's saying. I'm like, Yeah, this is something else to consider as she is just leading. She has been so leading our family in teaching us about the eternal perspective, that the Lord's light is still shining, even on a cloudy day, to where we can find his light, in a jumble of mess. She has just been sharing these types of things on Facebook and finding different songs and different things that have been really teaching our family about how God works and how He is continuing to guide us. And so I am so inspired by Rachel, and I want to be a support and help to her to go through this process because she she's not alone in it so I'll be that shoulder to cry on, I'll be that support as much as I can. And it's amazing, because I've never, man, this is weird, because I've never, I don't cry very much. And especially I don't like crying in front of Rachel. But I have not cried so much in all my life. But Rachel has been there for me, and she is a safety for me to express all my feelings. And so even that has broken a barrier for us, for me to be even that much more vulnerable towards her and even towards my kids, I can be vulnerable. And so I feel like it has been a strength for all of us to see the heart of each one of us and how we are all dealing with it. And that we need the Lord with it. And He's strengthening us through the whole process. So anyway, it's brought us definitely closer together.

Rachel Bonner

Yeah, and closer to the Lord. And I think because each of us individually relying on the Lord that's brought us even closer together too as a couple. So that's really beautiful. But you know, something really funny Morgan is that one of our first dates, we went to go see the movie "Tangled." And in that the end scene where she funny is reunited with her family and her dad just starts tearing up and gives her big ol hug, Conlon started tearing up in the movie theater and I know looked over him and I'm like, Are you crying? You know, and that was so attractive to me. It was so cute that he was tearing up and especially that part of father daughter moment, and I just I was hooked. I was like, Okay, well.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Conlon, she's into it. Let it all out.

Conlon Bonner

Gosh, I never cried after that. I was like, this is so embarrassing.

Rachel Bonner

I know, he really did. He like never cried in front of me ever again until now.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well first of all, think that that's it's so neat to be able to see, even in like the hardest circumstances we see the way that people kind of, it changes us, and like you said, Conlon, just being able to open up in a way that you hadn't before, I think is a good thing to recognize. Rachel, you said in one of the things that I watched or read, you said that you felt like for the rest of your life, you will be waiting to hold your baby again. That feeling just, I'm pregnant. So like the idea of...

Rachel Bonner

Congratulations!!

Morgan Jones Pearson

Thank you, thank you. But like longing to hold a baby, you know, like that feeling waiting to hold a baby. Just makes me emotional first of all, but it's also something the idea of waiting is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately. And what does waiting look like? How are we waiting but also being active? Because I think faith is a principle of action. So what does waiting, and specifically this waiting to be reunited with Joshua, what does that look like for you?

Rachel Bonner

Well, I feel like patience has never really been my favorite virtue. When I want to get something done, I get it done. I don't like wasting time. And so this kind of situation where I have no control whatsoever is in the fact of how long I wait is difficult. And so I have to I feel like I've felt that I need to channel that energy into something else. And so I mean, obviously, you know, I have five other children here still, and I have my husband and everything like that. But aside from that, I have just felt really impressed to, to serve more. And to focus on being an instrument in God's hands because that's all that matters. None of the other stuff in this world matters that we put so much emphasis on. But in the end, I want to, if anything good can come from this, then I want it to happen. So if this experience, if anything that I can do can help someone else to come closer to the Savior, or to their Heavenly Parents, and that's what I want to do. Because then I feel like that will make my wait worthwhile. And that, yeah, just that us being without our Joshua right now, it will be worth it. You know, we can be, we can help Heavenly Father in His work and His glory to bring to pass the immmortality and eternal life of man. You know, He obviously doesn't really need us, He has all the power, but He loves all of His children. And He is not going to force anybody to come back to him so they have to choose it. And so if I can help in any way, I want to help because I want my Heavenly Parents to get all of their children back possible because I can't imagine not having Joshua back in my life, that would be so, so painful.

Conlon Bonner

Can you imagine Joshua on the other side and how happy he is to have a mom like that. I tell you.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Seriously, he hit the jackpot. A few years ago, Conlon you were in a play called 1820. And I was lucky enough to get to go see it. And I'll tell you, my husband and I, we still love listening to the soundtrack. But it tells the story of the Restoration of the gospel. And there was a song when Joseph Smith received the revelation that little children didn't have the need to be baptized before the age of eight. And Joseph and Emma Smith had lost multiple children. And the song is so full of joy, because this is a dad who wants to be reunited with his kids. And who knows what it feels like to long to see their child again, you all created a little slideshow, somebody created a slideshow and did such a good job with pictures of Joshua set to that song. And I wondered how have you drawn upon the faith of those that have come before us like Joseph and Emma Smith, and also the comforting doctrines of the gospel in a way that maybe you hadn't previously throughout this experience?

Conlon Bonner

Oh, man, you know, if I could go back and sing that song again, and dance it like I did with 1820, oh, that would be such a joy because the doctrine in that, that children are alive in Christ, they are not lost forever. Heaven has called them home. And they repeat that over and over. They are not lost forever. Heaven has called them home. I know that Joshua is there, like he did what he needed to do here. And heaven has called him home for time, so that now it's time for me to do what I'm supposed to do here. And then when the time comes, we'll be reunited. And, gosh, I am so grateful for Joseph Smith, receiving that beautiful, beautiful doctrine. How sad it is, it hurts to imagine that children are lost forever. It hurts to think that you won't be with them for eternity when they are so innocent, when they are so whole. They're so good. Of course little children are alive in Christ. You think about Jesus Christ and how much He loves little children, my goodness. So I'm just so grateful to hear and to know that truth, so grateful for Joseph Smith, so grateful for being able to sing that truth and to read that truth of how children are alive in Christ. Yes. We created that video. And you can't get through it without crying and can't get through it without rejoicing and feeling so excited.

Rachel Bonner

It makes me want to stand up and clap along. Yes. It really is such a rejoicing.

Conlon Bonner

Yes, yes. So we had that played, and a slideshow shown, even at his funeral. And with collages of pictures with him and our family. He brought so much joy. And I love that he is still, his effect is doing so much good today. And so, yes, he has not lost forever. And I'm so excited to be reunited with him again.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Rachel and Conlon thank you so much for sharing your testimonies with us and with me and for your goodness, I think it radiates from you, even through a computer and not just in person. But my last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Conlon Bonner

I love that question. It's beautiful. All in means giving your all to make it back to live with your Father in Heaven, Heavenly Parents, with Jesus Christ again, to do your very best live with your loved ones again, to live your your best life, meaning, what you know is right to do, to do it, to do what you know is right. The Lord will be with you. And He will support you along the way as you're striving to do and rely on Him. For me, gosh, it means that the promises I have made with the Lord, I hold true to those. I hold true to giving my all to others in terms of service, in terms of forgiveness, repentance, it means run to your Father in Heaven and to Jesus Christ, the best way you know how. And I know that as I do that I will have the greatest life that I can possibly have because He's turning me into something that I can't even imagine right now. I want Him to be able to turn me into everything He wants me to be. And I know that's better than what I can create on my own. So allowing Him to dictate my life, because His way is better than my own.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Beautiful.

All in a gospel of Jesus Christ to me means that there is nothing that would make me leave my Savior. Nothing. It doesn't matter what happens to me or what other people do. I will not leave my Savior. I've promised that I'm gonna stick to it.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that definition. And I completely agree. Rachel and Conlon, thank you so much for your time and your testimonies. And it just it means a ton to me. Thank you very, very much.

Conlon Bonner

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to share all these things.

Morgan Jones Pearson

We are so grateful to Conlon and Rachel Bonner for joining us on this week's episode. Huge thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode, and every other episode that you've enjoyed of this podcast. Thank you for listening, and we'll look forward to being with you again next week.