Chris Thomas: The Faith to Find Elizabeth Smart

Morgan Jones Pearson

A quick note before we get into this week's episode that some topics discussed may not be appropriate for little years. On June 5, 2000, to 14 year old Elizabeth Smart was taken from her bedroom in Salt Lake City, Utah. For nine months she was held captive by a man named Brian David Mitchell and his wife Wanda Barzee. During those nine months, Elizabeth's family and friends joined with strangers all over the world to pray and search for Elizabeth. Although a stranger to the Smart family in the beginning, Chris Thomas became the Smart's righthand man serving as a publicist for the family and fielding more than 10,000 calls from journalists. John Walsh of America's Most Wanted said that Chris Thomas deserves most of the credit for keeping the public and family focused on finding Elizabeth. On March 12, 2003, 20 years ago this month, Elizabeth was found. In addition to the Elizabeth smart case, Chris Thomas is a writer, speaker and communication professional who has managed more than 300 crises for companies, nonprofits, government organizations and families. His new book, Unexpected, shares his experience as he helped the Smart Family search for Elizabeth. This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so excited to have Chris Thomas on the line with me today, Chris, welcome.

Chris Thomas

Thank you. It's such an honor to be here.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, this is such a treat for me. I told Chris this in an email when I first reached out to him but he came and spoke to my PR class at BYU and I have never forgotten it. It has stuck with me for years and years. And so to have the chance to kind of pick your brain, Chris, about what was no doubt one of the most influential, pivotal parts of your life is just such an honor for me, and I appreciate you taking the time.

Chris Thomas

Well I'm so flattered. And again, I'm a huge fan of the podcast. So I was so honored when you reached out.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, just to start out, today, we're going to be talking Chris has a new book that has just come out called "Unexpected" and it's all about his experience in doing PR for the Smart family during the the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart. And so, as we talk today, I guess to set the stage for us, Chris, if you don't mind, could you tell those listening, how you initially became involved in doing public relations for the Smarts?

Unknown Speaker

When I explain how I got involved and when I really think about this experience, a quote comes to mind from Larry H. Miller, who said "How many coincidences need to occur before they are not coincidences?" How I got involved was Elizabeth's cousin Sierra started an internship with my firm, Intrepid, a couple of weeks before [Elizabeth] was abducted. But there were several connections with my former business partners to the Smart family. It was almost like we were positioned to be there and to be able to help them at that time. And I think along those lines to maybe giving some context with that, we got involved, we volunteered to help. We thought it would be a couple of days, there would be a party, and we would go back to our day jobs. And a couple of weeks later, my entire team went back but I stayed with the family and worked with them basically on a sabbatical over the next nine and a half months. And my team was very helpful though. It wasn't as though I did this all on my own. And I had so many people that were there to help and support me. But I took the lead at that point, and played an integral role, not only with communications, but found myself working very closely and getting to know this incredible family.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris, you've done many PR cases, why was this different than any other case that you've taken on?

Unknown Speaker

Now, there were a couple of reasons. And preceding that. And following that, over the last 20 years, I've been fortunate to work on some pretty high profile cases nationally, but nothing compares to working with the Smart family. The first reason why is just what was at stake, knowing that the life of a child was at stake was incredibly stressful. And really, that also really pushed to push me to be very spiritual. And I think that was the second component was just how thoughtful, how prayerful and how faithful the Smart family was. Every meeting started with prayer. Everything was very, very much in tune with, are we seeking Heavenly Father's will? Are we doing this the right way? And so it was more spiritual. I've had spiritual experiences with others, but nothing like this. And of course, the size and scope of it was was unlike anything that most people can imagine.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I'm sure. What was it like for you, Chris, because March marks 20 years since Elizabeth was found safe, which was remarkable. But what was it like for you to relive these experiences as you worked on this book?

Unknown Speaker

Let's say hindsight, is 2020. And looking back 20 years was really an incredible experience. I, you know, in writing it, you have to do a lot of research as well. So it brought back lots of memories. It reminded me of a lot of the struggles, it also reminded me a lot of the spiritual experiences. Being forgetful is a part of the plan of salvation. And we have a tendency to forget those experiences and feelings sometimes that are most important. And so going back and feeling that was incredible, it also was incredibly affirming to have the time to slow things down. And to really think about situations and people to really analyze and see where they were coming from. We're so quick to judge and quick to create a narrative that we think aligns with whatever the situation or whoever the person might be. And so having the opportunity to try to walk in someone else's shoes and to see it very differently was something that was very gratifying. The other thing was my wife, Laura, was a close companion and partner in this project and has been an incredible strength for me. We had to relive a lot of the trauma that we went through, we were newlyweds when Elizabeth was abducted. And it brought up some things that we had to work through a little bit. But we found through that experience, we really recognized how much stronger the whole Smart case was, how it brought us together, and how it really helped define and influence our family and our life now.

Morgan Jones Pearson

It's amazing, well, I love the way throughout the book, you kind of highlight that and some of the things that it was bringing up between you and your wife and as a newlywed myself, I'm like, I understand how that would feel. And also but your wife, you know, throughout is so selfless I feel like and recognizes the importance of what you're doing and so hats off to her. Chris, you kind of take a really unique approach, kind of an unexpected approach, to telling your story in two ways in the book. One is you intermix personal experiences from your growing up specifically, there's this thread throughout the book of your experiences with this grouchy, rarely sober next door neighbor that you had growing up. And you intermix this with your experiences and seeking to find Elizabeth, why did you feel the need to devote so much time in the book to this experience that might seem totally unrelated with this neighbor?

Unknown Speaker

It is an interesting combination that was not easy to to put together. How this started—during COVID I wrote a book, a memoir of growing up and growing up next door to this neighbor who was this very mysterious, very cantankerous individual and how growing to understand him before it was too late, what an impact that it had on my life. And I wrote an epilogue that looked back at that situation as it related to the Smart case. And there were so many closely held parallels between the two. And again, my wife was huge on this, she kept pointing out 'well look at this, and look what you learned here. And look how that applied there.' And so she had been pushing me for years to write my story about working with the Smarts and really said, 'Look, here's the vision, let's pull these two together.' And so this individual was somebody who ended up being probably one of the most unexpected and profound teachers in my life. And so much of what I learned played such an important role in finding Elizabeth and helping to find Elizabeth that I'm grateful, but the lessons that I learned, I believe are universal and those who've read the book point to the fact that it makes them look very differently at people that were quick to judge and quick to define.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, I love the example and I'll tell you, as I read, as I went along. I was like, 'Where is he going with this?' And then at the very end, it kind of all comes together. And I love that. The other thing that I think set your book apart, and you told me that you were not planning on this when you started out, but you opted to share a lot of information about Latter-day Saint doctrine as well as the ways that those doctrines impact culture, specifically culture in the state of Utah throughout the book, and you tie these into how those doctrines and the culture played a role in the Smart case. So you go from explaining the Word of Wisdom to explaining priesthood blessings, and you cover a lot of ground. So when you say that this was not something that you planned on doing, how did you end up taking that approach?

Unknown Speaker

Morgan, I was hesitant to write a lot about church doctrine and culture. And the reason why is because this braided memoir already was pretty complicated. You know, there's two storylines that are that are running parallel to one another. At the same time, as I got into this, I realized that I couldn't tell the story without writing about it. And it really actually brought the two together. So much of what I learned, growing up in the culture, was so instrumental in the intuition that I had, and in many of the experiences I had in helping the Smart family, and and the culture itself played such a huge role in in that search effort, how the ward and stake and neighborhood came together, how the broader community did that. And so it was something I hadn't planned to write about. I also had a really interesting experience, I consulted with a woman named Marion Roach Smith, who's a former New York Times reporter, a successful author, and was put into a group of five other writers from around the United States, and Marion nor these other five had any contact I don't think they knew anybody who was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And in one of the early sessions, I read the chapter about service, and was relaying a story about the flood in 1983, and how sacrament meeting was suddenly interrupted, and we said a prayer and everybody went downtown to save Salt Lake City. And as I was relaying that story, these other writers were like, wait a second, what does the church look like? Why was this happening? They started asking all these questions that were a genuine curiosity. And they've really pushed and fueled me to write more. And they were a tremendous sounding board, it was so great to have somebody who knew really nothing about the faith that could come back and say, I don't understand this, or you really need to go deeper here. And I really wrote this with the goal that it would be informative and inspiring and non-threatening to those not of our faith. And at the same time, it would provide something very meaningful and affirming to those who are members of our Church.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, I think you did such a good job of that. And I think one thing, Chris, and this is probably the former PR student in me, but I think one thing that's always interesting to me is how media affects our perceptions of religion, and having somebody that's actually a faithful member of the Church presenting this information in a way that is compelling and applies to something that people are interested in, I think was just such a cool way to take it. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later. But I just wanted to highlight that early on, so that when people start reading, they're like, 'Wow, this is awesome.'

You had a really broad range of experiences with the media. And that's obviously for those that aren't familiar, as a PR professional, you work directly with the media and you acted as a spokesperson for the Smart family and also as kind of a middleman between the Smart family and the media throughout this whole experience. You write in one part of the book "My feelings for some members of the media border on hate, deep in thought and agonizing over their attacks, deceptions and misrepresentations, I stare aimlessly at the wall. My mindset unexpectedly shifts when a large framed print of Christ washing the feet of His apostles comes into focus. I realized that even in his darkest hours Jesus loved and served others, including the sully traitor who had sold his teacher and Savior for 30 pieces of silver. Even as He hung painfully on the cross, Jesus asked His father to forgive those who mocked and crucified Him. His example of unrequited love and radical forgiveness helps provide some calm and perspective. A Latter-day Saint children's hymn, "I'm a Child of God" comes to mind. I think of the journalists who are disparaging the Smart family and remember, they're imperfect children of God just like I am." Chris, how did having this perspective affect the way that you interacted with members of the media?

Unknown Speaker

Well, I'd like to say I had that perspective all the time. In this particular account, a National Enquirer story that was very damaging, and very hurtful was being put out and in the midst of it, going downstairs to the High Council Room, which was kind of my war room during the initial search for Elizabeth and seeing that picture, and it hitting me so hard. It was a real aha moment, I learned a lot from my neighbor growing up about judging people and and how often they're not who you think they are. And it was something that maybe I hadn't applied as well as I had thought. But when I realized, when I saw through the lens of the everyone is a child of God and that despite their flaws and weaknesses, that these are Heavenly Father's children. It doesn't mean I wasn't firm, or assertive. But it changed the way in which I approached and saw those in the media. And In instances like this, it was really important. And it's something today, I still strive to do something by no means have I mastered. But when I am able to look at somebody, somebody may be who's vastly different from me, and realize that they're a son and son or daughter of our heavenly Father, and to try to keep that at the forefront, regardless of how they're treating me or what the situation might be. It really changes my heart and how I see and approach people and again, something that I'm always striving to do I fall short of it often.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I think we all fall short of that often. So I think just being able to have those occasional aha moments are helpful. Chris, in the book, you acknowledge things that you felt you did right over the course of that period of time that you were working with the Smarts and the things you wished you'd done differently? Why was it important to you to acknowledge mistakes and regret?

Unknown Speaker

I think that's a principle of the gospel. I mean, simply, it's repentance. And maybe for me, there was some repentance that was needed, as I thought through a very challenging situation. And I don't know, there's anything in there that's like that significant, but I really believe and I tell my kids often that one of the most important attributes that they can learn is to admit when they're wrong, or when there's a conflict to at least recognize and acknowledge their role in the conflict, and how important that is in marriage. And that as we work to do that, that we learn and progress. I mean, it's really a part of the plan of salvation, right? We're all flawed. We're all imperfect. We're all here, on a different journey on a different path. And recognize that, as we recognize, when we fall short, we grow and we learn and progress, I'm reminded of a quote by a CEO, and I can't remember who it was. But he used to say, I don't always make right decisions, but I make decisions right. And I think that's a key component in life. It was a key component in working with the media with the Smarts. And we didn't always make the right decision. It was impossible. It was such a frenetic pace, it wasn't uncommon to have 100 interview requests in a day and to have information constantly changing and new developments in the investigation and people saying certain things and having to respond to that. It was unlike anything really I've experienced, since, even in some of the larger crises I've had the opportunity to manage. But being able to make those adjustments, being able to have that filter and that self-recognition that, oh, we could have done that better, or we made a mistake there, the sooner we could figure that out and make adjustments, the better off we were. And that was so important in that communications effort in keeping Elizabeth top of mind and really helping that narrative to be about finding her. And so I think that's true in life today, as we are able to recognize when we've made mistakes, and acknowledged those and worked in some cases to correct those by apologizing and seeking forgiveness and in other cases, just making small adjustments that is that is how we progress and that's how we often find happiness.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Absolutely. I completely agree with that. Along those same lines. You mentioned earlier, the toll that this took on your marriage, I think is interesting to note throughout the book that it also took a toll on your mental health and on the mental health of other people as well. Why did you keep going because there were times where you were like ready to throw in the towel. So what kept you going Chris?

Unknown Speaker

You know, there was something that compelled not just me but other members of the Smart family and when I say the Smart family, this is a broad family of neighbors and friends and ward members and other strangers even that were a part of this inner circle that was helping to find Elizabeth. But there was incredible compulsion to move forward and looking back and obviously we were being guided. It wasn't just coincidence, as Larry Miller would say. And I remember an experience in particular, when Elizabeth had been missing, probably a little around eight and a half months. And Ed smart and I were in New York, doing some interviews. And it was after midnight one night, and I was just about to sleep. And I heard a knock on my door and went and looked, and it was Ed and he couldn't sleep and wanted to talk. And he came in and sat across from me. And he said, 'You know, call me crazy. A lot of people think I am, but Elizabeth's alive. She's out there. And we need to find her. Are we doing everything we can to find her?' And I kind of before that experience, I was at this extreme fatigue. You know, just so tired. And so like, you know, how much longer is this going to go on? Can we keep this up? Can my marriage withstand this much longer? And hearing Ed say that I was hit so hard by the Spirit. It was such a spiritual experience that it was renewing. And I think often in life, we have those situations where we are ready to give up, where everything seems like it's against us where it seems like the Lord has forgotten us. And I think if we stay in that long enough, we have those epiphanies like talking to me and feeling that spirit that renews us and helps us to sonder on regardless of how hard or how challenging circumstances might be.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Along those same lines, I believe it was in that same little exchange after after you share about Ed and him saying that, you write "Although Ed was battling feelings of weakness and inadequacy, I honestly couldn't think of anyone I had ever met who was more committed to an important cause, or of anything more he could be doing." I wondered, what did you learn from observing Ed and Lois and their love for their daughter about the love of a parent. And also, you mentioned the Smart family being, you know, this whole extended family that was working so hard to find Elizabeth, what did you learn also about family and the power of family?

Unknown Speaker

It was an incredible experience. Being around Ed and Lois Smart, I spent a lot of time with them, so much so that Lois used to refer to me as her fifth son, and really got to know them and see them at their best and at their worst, and I could not be more complimentary. They are incredible people and none of us can start to understand what they were going through. But I saw them as courageous. They recognized their roles. They really compensated for one another's weaknesses, they compromised. There were lots of disagreements, there were lots of things that were really challenging. But throughout it, I was constantly amazed. I learned so much from watching them as a couple, and just considered it an incredible blessing to see them and how they responded to situations and just how dedicated they were to finding Elizabeth. I mean, Ed was going to find her, you know, come hell or high water. It was something that as a father, he had the intuition that she was still alive, and he was going to do everything he possibly could to find her. And it was at times tiring but incredibly inspiring to see that and experience that firsthand.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Chris, I just had a thought and you can tell me if you want me to just skip this. But one thing that I wonder if it might be helpful to acknowledge is that Elizabeth read your manuscript before you published and was you said very supportive. Obviously a lot has changed for their family since this time. Could you share what her reaction was to the manuscript?

Unknown Speaker

No, I was nervous to share it with her just not knowing. I mean, this is my life's work. This is a bucket list item for me. And I worked to be as factual but as delicate as I possibly could in telling that story. And I gave her the book on a Friday night and Saturday morning she called me and had finished the book. So she read it like in 12 hours time and could not have been more complimentary and said that there were so many things that she didn't realize on the other side of the story. And I think there was a new respect for her parents through that really seeing what they went through and how they functioned. It was incredibly gratifying. I have to say I was in tears listening to her feedback on it and her questions. I think we spoke for about two and a half hours when she called. And it was really interesting to answer some of the questions too that she had about experiences that she wasn't aware of. A lot of things she knew about but didn't know the depth of them. You know, I've heard that this had happened, but didn't really know the story behind it. So I think it was illuminating for her, and created a new level of appreciation for her family and for those that were involved in the effort.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So I have to tell you, a couple of years ago, this would have been right before the pandemic, I was serving in a stake in Salt Lake in the Relief Society, and we had a fireside and Elizabeth came and spoke. And I had the opportunity to introduce her that night, and just told her, which I never as a little girl growing up in North Carolina I never could have imagined that I would have the chance to tell her how much her story meant to me and how much my family prayed for her. And I think that's one thing that's really interesting about this story is that you had people all over the place that this story meant something to them, and they were praying for Elizabeth and wanting to find her. And so I wondered as I read this, what did you learn about the worth of a soul from how hard people work to find Elizabeth? And then why do you think this is something that has meant so much to so many people?

Unknown Speaker

I mean, I think there are few examples out there of so many people involved in trying to find somebody. It's been said that this was the largest search and the most highly publicized search for a missing child since the Lindbergh baby in the 1920s. Locally in Salt Lake, tens of thousands of people helped in that effort. And as you mentioned, Morgan, millions of people around the world prayed for Elizabeth. And so it really underscores that principle. It was interesting, though, too, as I think about that, I often think that, you know, doesn't everybody deserve that kind of response when there are challenges and issues? And I'm someone who often prays for those who are silently suffering, and try to think of those who don't get that that same outpouring of love. In the book, right toward the end, and I want to be careful here not to provide a spoiler but toward the end of the book, there's a big party that's held in Liberty Park right after Elizabeth is rescued. And it's raining and there are thousands of people there. Several different media organizations have set up desks and are doing interviews. And there's a lot of chaos in and through that chaos, I see somebody and I'm compelled to go and speak to this individual, and learn about his suffering, how he was silently suffering. And it really illustrated to me that our Heavenly Father, He knows each of us whether or not we're a household name, or a stranger in the crowd that He knows and He cares about us in and that He puts people in our path that are there to love and help and serve and teach us.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I agree completely with that. And I think, you know, that is something that I think a lot comes up a lot when children are missing in particular as well. Why does one get this treatment versus another but recognizing that, in Heavenly Father's eyes, they're all getting equal treatment, although it might not seem like that publicly. And I think that's an important thing to note. Chris, what stands out in your mind from the day that Elizabeth was found?

Unknown Speaker

So much I could spend the whole hour talking about that. There's one tender mercy in particular, and and as I wrote about this, it really was something that became front and center. The day that Elizabeth was found there was a controversial article that was written and we were working to respond to that article. And Ed was heading to my office for a meeting when he called me and told me that he'd been summoned to the Sandy City Police Department and told not to stop and not to talk to anyone. And he had called me to let me know he was going to be late to the meeting and possibly miss the meeting and was very, very nervous. And, again, there's Larry Miller, there's so many coincidences that they're no longer coincidences. A little bit before that I had reconnected with a good friend from high school who happened to be a detective with the Sandy City Police Department and I was able to get a hold of him and was able to learn that they had Elizabeth and that she was safe. And we were able to relay that to Ed who was too scared to go in. He was out in the parking lot pacing and just seeing that moment, being a part of that moment and realizing throughout, we saw the Lord's hand time and time again. And I mean, as a missionary, so often as missionaries, we don't know what to do or what to say. And we just go out there we say a silent prayer in our hearts, and we do our best. And the Lord helps us and we become an instrument in His hands. And I saw that time and time again. And that was that was something that in that moment was unbelievable. But but just so incredibly special that that Ed would have that reassurance, that he would have had that answer to the prayer that he had. The other thing that really sticks out is that night, late that night, it was impossible to use our phones. There were too many calls coming in and out. So we just finally shut them off. And so I was going up to the Smart house to strategize for the next day. And as I got to the entryway, each of the Smart children were standing and sat in pajamas each on a stair that led to the the third level of their house and Ed and Lois were standing in the front and I just paused for a minute and I had faith that this family would be together again, I didn't know that I would actually get to experience that. And it was incredibly gratifying to see that and and to see that miracle, to recognize that the unbelievable had happened and how blessed we all had been.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I think that's something that it's one of those things where all of us can remember how we felt when we heard that she was safe. And much like these other pivotal moments in history, I think a lot of people can remember that. And it's neat to hear from you what you remember. One of the things that I appreciated and I mentioned this earlier, kind of the way that media affects the perception of our religion. But you wrote this "Even in total, the number of religious zealots with beliefs and practices tied to a distorted view of the history and doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is very minimal. Of those individuals, only a very small fraction have committed crimes under the banner of self-centered radicalism." And I should add, you're talking about Brian David Mitchell, and the way that people tried to tie him to the church. And then you say, "Their stories coupled with a loose, distorted and often poorly researched connection to church history or doctrine make for compelling and commercially successful articles, books, movies, TV shows on demand, docuseries and plays. But those works do little to accurately represent a robust and growing faith that journalists have touted as the most American religion. In truth, these stories have very little to do with the modern Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which in the past 130 years, has evolved beyond its polygamous past. But to paraphrase church founder Joseph Smith, 'no man knows our history.' Historians continue to debate and reevaluate the Church's earliest accounts, and the justifications for polygamy but those reasons cannot be boiled down to simple perversion, revenge, power or insanity. The answer is much more complicated." Why was this important for someone that has worked his entire career and media to say in this book?

Unknown Speaker

You know, I believe everyone, not just those who work around media and communications, have a responsibility, that it's important that we work to educate those not of our faith to dispel incorrect perceptions. I've been so impressed over the years reading McKay Coppins with the Atlantic, who's a member of the Church, and on many, many occasions, he has really worked to educate those not of our faith on who we really are and what we believe and does so in just such a respectful and informative manner. That was something that really inspired me and I felt impressed as I was writing the book, although it wasn't necessarily something that was part of the response. At that time, we kind of stayed away from the issue of polygamy, because it wasn't in the Smart's best interest, but that it was something that I really needed to address it in some context in the book. And it was something that I very prayerfully approached and wanted to approach this in the right way. You know, one of the most fulfilling experiences in writing this book is, I mentioned Marion Roach Smith, a former New York Times reporter and successful author that I had the opportunity to consult with. I paid her to review the final draft of the book. And when I received her feedback, it literally brought me to tears. Working with her, she was very critical at the Church. And at the end, the first thing she said when she got on the phone to go through the feedback was 'I need to apologize. I have completely misjudged you religion and culture, this was so illuminating. I'm embarrassed of what I thought and what I felt and more people need to read your book.' That meant the world to me that I was able to show the culture in a positive light. Now, I don't know that everybody is going to see it that positively. At the same time, you know, if we each do our part, and when there are opportunities like this, I felt that I'd be doing a disservice to what I believe in, in my culture and my history, if I didn't address these things. And so I really tried to do so in a way that would be respectful and at the same time, set the record straight.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, I think you did such a good job of that. And I think it's important, you also don't like sugarcoat things, either. You're very honest and transparent. But it also is coming from somebody for whom these things mean a lot. And I just think it's a rare perspective and something that, especially people outside of our Church have probably rarely experienced or had the opportunity to read. Chris, at the very end of the book, you write, "In the grueling but miraculous journey of finding Elizabeth I experienced the very best of humanity, including people from different backgrounds putting aside their differences, and coming together with one common purpose. I witnessed the organization and precision of Elizabeth's ward and stake as they helped one of their own. And I was touched and forever changed by the courage, faith and insatiable drive of the Smart family to do whatever it took to rescue Elizabeth." Chris, I wondered, why did what you witnessed throughout this experience give you hope for some of the things that the world and our society is facing now?

Unknown Speaker

In answering that, but let me take you back to experiencing Elizabeth being rescued. This was a highlight of my life. But one of the great takeaways from the experience was the Elizabeth Smart Search center. And every day I witnessed people that, I get choked up every time I talk about it, I just can't. It was one of the most miraculous things. I saw one of the most spiritual experiences I've had, seeing people from different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different religions, different socio-economic groups, sitting around the table, and working together, and then going out on searches to try to find Elizabeth and the camaraderie and the feeling was unlike anything I've experienced, and I was just so touched by that. I felt like I got a taste of Zion there. And I think service is so much of the antidote that we need in today's world, because we've become so polarized both as a country, a community, even as neighbors, we become polarized, when we go to work in the trenches together, we usually forget about those differences, especially when there's a need. And I've seen time and time again, how service changes people, how that changes us. And I really believe that we, as individuals, and as families need to seek opportunities not just to do service, but to do service with and for those who are vastly different from ourselves. I think when we serve somebody, even somebody that we disagree with, that we learn to understand and respect and appreciate them and have a new love for them that tears down fences and builds bridges and brings us closer to our Heavenly Father. I believe that President Nelson has has really taught us this multiple times in recent years. And he's counseled us to lead out in abandoning attitudes and the actions of prejudice to promote respect for all of God's children. And to find ways today to show loving kindness to everyone around us. I think we all have a responsibility to seek this. And if you're feeling down, if you're feeling upset or angry, one of the best things you can do is go to work, go to work and help somebody else. Something that I need more for sure.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that. Chris, before we get to the last question that we asked at the end of every episode of this show, I just wondered, Is there anything else that you want to add that we haven't that I haven't given you an opportunity to address?

Unknown Speaker

So Morgan, I think the family unit is divine. And when I say that family unit, sometimes like with the Smart family that was extended and immediate family who, despite their differences worked incredibly well together. Other times, family is not as traditional and I've just been blessed over the years with dozens and dozens of experiences of working with families in crisis, and seeing how resilient the human spirit is and how resilient families are when they work together. And sometimes those families are a mixture, sometimes they're family, friends, sometimes they're ward members, sometimes they're complete strangers that come together when there's a need and really work to make a difference. And I know that our heavenly Father put us in families for a reason that that was something that was divinely guided and how blessed we are. But we should never underestimate the importance of our families. We're all brothers and sisters, right? Brothers and sisters of God. So regardless of what our family situation might be, that we lean on, and recognize the importance of family.

Morgan Jones Pearson

One of my favorite lines in any primary song is the line that says "God gave us families to help us become what He wants us to be." And I completely agree with that. And I think sometimes it's the conventional idea of family. And sometimes it extends beyond that, but God puts people in our path for a reason. And I love that Lois called you her fifth son, because I think that, you know, we come into each other's lives exactly in the time when we need each other. Chris, thank you so much for sharing, your perspectives and this unique perspective into something that was kind of a big deal in the lives of so many Latter-day Saints around the world for a period of time and giving us a chance to look back on the miracle that was finding Elizabeth. My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Unknown Speaker

Morgan, I love that question. I love that you've asked it since the very first time I heard your podcast. It was something that really struck me and I've enjoyed hearing multiple guests talk about why they're all in, and I believe that this is something that often evolves and changes. My wife and I have discussed that question many times, often, late at night, as we're mulling through challenges and issues and trying to make sense of certain things. We have family members and friends who've decided that they're not all in. And we recognize their free agency and that everyone has a unique journey. And regardless of where someone is on that path, that we really try to meet them where they are. And my wife and I are constantly striving to understand and respect and love these people without judgment. You know, I've been blessed with incredible experiences and moments of clarity and I've had doubts and struggles, I've had times where I've really questioned things. And, for me, being all in it really means learning to love and understand and respect others, despite our differences. You know, it's being willing to stay in the game, having this willingness to stay in the game, even when there's extreme discouragement, adversity and doubt and we want to give up, and it's having the courage to follow the Lord. And to never give up despite how difficult the situation might be, or how flawed and imperfect we may think we are collectively and individually.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So, so well said. Thank you so much, Chris. It has been such an honor to talk with you. And I've learned so much so thank you so much for your time.

Unknown Speaker

Morgan, thank you again. It's such an honor to be on your podcast. I appreciate the great work you do and the great people I get to meet as I listened to the various episodes.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Many thanks to Chris Thomas for joining us on today's episode, you can find "Unexpected: The Backstory of Finding Elizabeth Smart and Growing Up in the Culture of an American Religion" on Amazon now. Thank you to Derrick Campbell of Mix at Six studios for his help with this episode and thank you for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai