Casey Elliott: Changed through Characters

Morgan Jones 0:00
This week as I was preparing this episode, I listened to the audio book of my friends Emily Belle Freeman and David Butler's new book, The Unexpected Deliverer. They talk about the interaction between Peter and the Savior at the sea of Tiberius. You know, the one where the Savior asks Peter, "Do you love me?" Peter immediately replies in the affirmative. And the Savior says, "Feed my sheep."

Emily and David point out something I had never before considered. They write, "Peter was not a shepherd. He was a fisherman. He knew nothing about raising lambs. Perhaps that is why this very same challenge with Jesus happened two more times. It was a new call, unexpected. Three years ago, the task at hand had been to change a fisherman to a fisher of men, to teach him to find, to gather, to count. Now, Jesus was calling Peter to become a shepherd, to feed His flock, to care, protect and love those who were brought in. There is no record of Peter raising sheep before. But this was the work of Jesus. And now it was what Peter would do in His name. The past three years had changed everything, the world would never be the same, and neither would Peter. He was no longer a fisherman, he would become a shepherd," end quote.

I love Peter so much. If there's one character from the scriptures outside of the Savior that this podcast has caused me to love more than I did previously, it would be Peter. I love the way the gospel of Jesus Christ changed him, but also the way the Savior loved Peter for who he was and believed in him and his ability to contribute to the kingdom. Today we talk with Casey Elliott about a recent unexpected invitation he received to play Peter in the concert film of Lamb of God.

Growing up in a musical family, Casey Elliott's love for music started at a young age as he watched and learn from his parents who were accomplished musicians themselves. Casey is known for his powerful vocal and acting ability. He has toured the world as a performer with the music group Gentri, as well as in US national and international tours of Aida. Film credits include playing Hyrum Smith in Out of Liberty, John Taylor in Joseph Smith: American Prophet, and Joseph Smith in the upcoming film, Green Flake. But this weekend, you can see Casey playing the role of Peter in Lamb of God in a theater near you.

This is All In an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the Gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Jones, and I am so excited to have Casey Elliot on the line with me today. Casey, welcome.

Casey Elliott 2:51
Thank you. Thanks, Morgan, for having me.

Morgan Jones 2:54
Well, this is exciting for me, because I have seen you play a wide variety of roles, as many people that listen to this episode will have done as well, and in your professional career, you have played a number of different roles, but specifically in Church history you've played Joseph Smith, John Taylor, Hyrum Smith, you've basically covered every person in the Restoration. So how do you prepare for roles like those–not only professionally, when it comes to acting–but spiritually?

Casey Elliott 3:27
Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I, I remember, I was on set on one of the projects, it was one of the Church projects I was involved with, and the director took me aside, he's like, "So, here's the deal." He's like, when you play some of these, like, these roles, these iconic roles, or these roles that people have like an idea in their heads of what it is, right, or what they think it is, what they should be, and he's like, I want you to really resist playing to the icon.

And it was such a helpful conversation because it was a reminder to me that whoever I'm portraying–they're people, you know. Just like you and me, they are ordinary people that the Lord has called to do extraordinary things. And that kind of puts me at ease. So whenever I go into those roles, I try to put myself in that frame of mind first, just as a reminder to myself that these are people who have real emotions and real anxieties, let's say, hopes for the future, they have present problems they're dealing with, and so that always makes it fun because then you start to get to the humanity of who these people were, rather than just playing the stoic or the reverent which of course, that's part of it, I think, all of us, you know, seeking for truth and seeking to follow the Savior, but at the end of the day we're people and so are they.

Morgan Jones 5:00
Yeah, well, and I think it would be really easy to just go back to the first portrayal that resonated with you and try to imitate that, but that's not going to be super beneficial. So how do you determine once you have a role like this and you start preparing for it, once you establish in your mind that you're not going to play into that icon, how do you determine how you are going to portray it?

Casey Elliott 5:28
Yeah, you know, I think a lot of it comes in how the script is written. So, you know, it's easy sometimes for us to approach a role–especially dealing with Church history or scriptural characters–and to sort of assume a lot of things when you're playing something. And so I always try to look at it from the perspective of somebody who has no idea who this person is. They don't know the backstory, they don't know the thousands of other scriptures that maybe we do when we watch a film about a historical character.

And I try to, you know, look first at the script, what is the script telling us? What is the story telling us? Because really, ultimately, that's kind of the first most important thing. And I think, as we produce these films, obviously, you know, a lot of them are for the members of the Church, but ideally, others that aren't members of the Church kind of stumble upon them and watch them and, and hopefully it sort of makes sense what motivates these people.

And I think that comes from the script and how it's written first and foremost. And then, you know, I think that just looking at certain material. So I, one of the roles I played was the Savior in some films that were done a few years ago. They actually never got released, because of a number of reasons I won't go into, but the project was amazing. And I remember reading, you know the Givens? Fiona and –

Morgan Jones 6:56
Yeah, they actually–when this episode airs, they will have been our guest two weeks before.

Casey Elliott 7:04
I love it. Perfect! So, I love their books so much. And one of the ones that I was reading at the time was The God Who Weeps. And it was like, for me, I just, I kept going back to that, it kept resonating for me because as I think about Christ–again, a lot of times we sort of go to the reverent and the stoic and the sort of even-keel, and I think He was definitely all those things, but He also is the God who weeps for people who are in anguish and experiencing sorrow. And so I really wanted to portray that side of it.

And so that book and that concept, and some of those writings were super helpful. And then just conference talks–there's another one that I really latched onto from Elder Holland, about, you know, what Christ must have been feeling and thinking on the cross, when he had to endure the last moments of the Atonement completely on his own, you know, that–just as an example, so, Elder Holland, in his talk, he changes the inflection just a little bit, which changes the meaning. So interestingly, he says, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" Right? And the implication is, "Everyone else has forsaken me, and now you? Why you? Why hast thou now forsaken me." And so even just that slight, little change in intonation–all of a sudden, it just like, it totally connected with me. And so when I had to speak those lines, I was able to sort of pull from that and, you know, the things that I had been studying to hopefully bring, you know, more meaning to it.

Morgan Jones 8:53
Yeah, I love that so much. I think–especially that first point that you made–coming at it for someone that has never heard of these people before, because that's how they experienced it themselves, right? When they encountered each other and met each other for the first time they didn't know anything, you know, they're coming at it from that same angle, and so I think portraying it in that way makes a lot of sense.

Casey, as we are in this year, studying, "Come, Follow Me" we're in the Doctrine and Covenants. How has playing these roles–in your experience in playing these figures from Church history caused you to approach Church history in a different way?

Casey Elliott 9:36
Well, I mean I think . . . kind of speaking to something I just mentioned, which is that they're real people. You know, they're imperfect men who were called upon to do great things, and it's a reminder to me that, you know, it's okay that I'm not perfect all the time, that the Lord can still utilize me, right. The Lord can still utilize the talents he's given me to build up His kingdom, and there's so many examples of that in scripture, not just immediate Church history, but examples of the Lord calling imperfect people to do these incredible things.

And like that, to me, is such a relief and so beautiful, right? That the Lord qualifies those who He calls. And as we get into Church history, I just, I just have a love for these men and women that had to endure things that we can't really comprehend. And kind of didn't have as much light and knowledge that we have now, I guess. You know, they were definitely going one step at a time, one line at a time, and did so, you know, with as much faith as they had, and even those that fell away and eventually came back or fell away, but never denied, you know, what they had seen, like, I still have such a respect for them even. Because it's easy–I think, sometimes the fallacy is to put our current context on the past. Right, I forget what kind of fallacy that is, but there's like a, you know, like an official fallacy name

Morgan Jones 11:06
Term for it.

Casey Elliott 11:09
Yeah. But it's like, oh, like, oh, we look at it through our current modern-day eyes and we think, oh, that's so unacceptable, or that's–how weak of them, you know, how could they falter? And yet, we just have to remember that it was a very different time. Number one, and number two, like it was so new, like they were receiving revelation on a daily basis. And so yeah, I just, I just have a lot of respect for them.

Morgan Jones 11:35
Yeah, I think this goes back to what I was just saying in the previous, in my previous comment, but I think we make the mistake sometimes of inserting these people into the point that we're at in the story, like you just said, you know, we're at the end of the story, and they are right in the middle of it. And so just as they're encountering these characters for the first time, and they know nothing about them, they also are encountering challenges and trials that we know how they turned out. But at the time, they didn't have any sense of how it was going to play out.

I am curious, Casey, for you, you and your music group Gentri have spent a lot of time traveling and performing–during COVID I imagine not as much, but before that, certainly a ton. But you're also a husband and a father and I was looking on your Instagram as I was preparing for this interview, and I got a good laugh out of videos of your daughters putting bows all over you. And so, I'm just wondering, how do you balance all that you do and manage to also stay present in whatever moment it is that you're in, or situation?

Casey Elliott 12:46
Well, I think I first have to give credit to my amazing wife who puts up with my crazy schedule and all of my crazy pursuits. She's amazing and so supportive and just is such an amazing mother to her children. And so that like takes off a huge, like, you know, burden and stress for me, because I know that all is well, right?

But when I am home, which right now especially is actually not very often because I'm in a musical at Hale Center Theater and preparing for another musical right after that, so I'm rehearsing for that when I'm not performing. And it's just like, it's crazy. But you know, when I'm home, I try to be as present as possible. I try to give 100% of my attention and focus. And it's hard to do, you know, like I'm studying a lot right now this idea of presence and living in the now and mindfulness. And I think it's like something you go in and out of. Like, I definitely haven't mastered it, but I think when you realize that you're maybe not present and not living in the moment that's actually an acknowledgement of the present, right? Like just acknowledging that maybe you're not as present as you could be is being present. And so I think the more that we kind of catch ourselves and realize, oh, I need to pull myself back to the moment, the more rich our lives are going to be in the lives of those around us.

Morgan Jones 14:17
Absolutely. I had an interesting conversation recently, I was interviewed on another podcast and the guys that were interviewing me, they said that they had enjoyed the chance to work on a podcast because it's like a practice in intentionality and being present with someone in the moment and I had never thought of it that way. But you are trying so hard to listen and to be engaged and you don't want to have any distractions and so it really is, it's like a 40-minute practice that I feel blessed to get to have every week or so.

And I love that that's something that you're focused on because I think it could be really easy, you know, given your schedule, to do otherwise. And so mad props to you for being aware of that. I want to talk a little bit about a very complex character that you recently had the chance to play. And I have to tell you, I'm kind of jealous–not that I would ever played the role of Peter because I'm a woman–but I love Peter so much. And so the fact that you had the chance to even just like step into those shoes, I think what a blessing to play that role, but also to sing the beautiful music that is in Lamb of God. And so first of all, how did you get involved with this project?

Casey Elliott 15:43
Well, Rob reached out and I hadn't ever met Rob or spoken to Rob, but I was aware of him and aware of Lamb of God. And so I was excited to talk to him to see what was up. And when he told me about the project I instantly felt, “Yes. I need to figure out how to do this.” And so yeah, that's kind of how it came about. I wasn't familiar with the–super familiar with the music before, but after our initial conversation, and I sat down and listened to the whole thing, and then I listened to it in my car just kind of like sat with it for a day or two. And as I started to really listen to it and internalize it–holy cow, it's like powerful stuff. I was sincerely moved to tears like a couple of times as I listened to it. So, it's definitely an inspired work, I think.

Morgan Jones 16:37
Yeah. I became familiar with Lamb of God because my brother does music stuff with Rob, and they are really good friends. And so as a result of that, I listened to it and had never heard it before and it has become one of my favorite, like, go-to Sunday listens. And I just think, to be able to be a vessel for that kind of musical work is pretty incredible. And so I've always been really grateful to Rob for putting in that effort and using his talents in that way.

What do you think having, you know, you've done stuff with music and with film, this is obviously combining those two things. But what do you think it is about the Lamb of God that makes it special and speaks to people's hearts, especially in terms of like the music? Because I'm not the most musical person in the world, but something about the music in Lamb of God just speaks to my soul. And so I'm curious for you, someone that is so immersed in the musical world, what you think makes it stand out and makes it special?

Casey Elliott  17:48
Yeah, it's–that's a great question. Because there's definitely something there and it's hard to put your finger on. I actually sat down next to Rob when we're on set and kind of shared with him one experience I had with the song Gethsemane. And I was listening to it and driving down the freeway and I just cranked it up in my car. And the . . . just the power of it kind of overcame me and I just like was weeping, driving down the freeway. And I said, "The only way I can describe it, Rob, is that there is–the Spirit of Christ is in the music."

And I don't know if it's a chord progression thing, I don't know what it is, right. But somehow, he's been able to bring in these elements to just be innately spiritual. And I've, some of the music that I've participated in or music videos that I've participated in with Gentri, it’s the same kind of thing. Like it's hard to explain, but it just, it's like a perfect storm of multiple things coming together to form something that has a life of its own.

In fact, Stephen Nelson of Gentri, the way he describes it is–is he just kind of sits–when he's arranging something working on something–he sits with it patiently until it forms into what it should be. Almost like, you know, imagine the way that intelligences are organized. I think creative ideas, in a very real sense, are bits of intelligence, bits of spiritual stuff that wasn't created, right? It just is there. And as creatives, we have the immense blessing and opportunity to take that and to form it into an identity. And that identity, once formed, almost like takes on a life of its own kind of like us, right?

Like God organized us as intelligences and we've now become our own thing. And, and what's interesting is when you create something like that from that perspective and you send it out into the world, the only thing it does is grow, because it's its own thing, and you no longer have control over it, right? You send it out into the world and it–and what's amazing, what I mean by “Grow,” is it continues to season and develop in the minds and hearts of people.

And it's such a beautiful thing, like we send songs out into the world and we see the impact and the different kinds of impact that it has on individuals. And it's like, we didn't do that, you know. We created this thing as like an infant, and then we sent it out and now it's just growing up, and you're seeing how it's continuing to impact people's lives. And I imagine our Heavenly Father, kind of, is in a similar boat with us. He made us in His image, and he sends us out, and I think that he sits back in amazement to see what we become. And that's kind of a beautiful thing.

Morgan Jones 20:58
I appreciate that so much. And I think I've probably said this on this podcast before, but I remember the first time I said to somebody that I wrote for a living, and I said, I'm a journalist, and they said, "Oh, so you're a creative." And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, like, I can't draw stick figures." And it wasn't until later that I realized that for me, writing a story, sitting there with a blank word doc, and just writing things down, was creating something. And that does make me a creative, and it makes you a creative. And I think that ability to create whatever it is that we're creating, whether it be an architect, creating a building, like we're all creating something, and then we put it out into the world. And I love what you said about we see what it becomes.

I think one thing, going back to Lamb of God, one thing that I think makes that music so special is the cello, the fact that the cello represents Christ in the music. I think something about having an instrument represent the Savior, rather than a person with a voice makes it so profound. Do you have any unique experiences on the set of the film? I know some of the people were members of the Church, some were Christian, some were not. And I imagine that creates an interesting dynamic when you're singing songs about Christ. So, what was that experience on set like for you?

Casey Elliott 22:30
Yeah, it was interesting because I didn't know exactly kind of where everybody stood. It was a little bit of a whirlwind production because we were in and out so quickly, but it was interesting to kind of see the different perspectives and how it was sort of impacting each individual differently.

You know, I think one of the cool things about the way that the story is told is, it is from the perspective of those that were with the Savior, not necessarily directly from the Savior. And like you said, there's something powerful about that, because we each can put ourselves in the shoes of these characters, doesn't matter what our background is, right? Everybody can relate with what they were going through. Doubt, self doubt, just trying to find your place in this world and trying to find your place with God. I think even if you don't believe in God, you still have just an innate, built-in desire to know what is your place in this universe, right, in this world? What is your place? What is your purpose? And so it's beautiful to see people coming together.

And I love that they brought, you know, different ethnicities and different faith backgrounds. And because we're all in this together. I mean, we may prescribe to a certain belief or we may be on certain different points of the journey, the path, but we're all in this together. And ultimately, the Savior loves everybody just the same.

Morgan Jones 23:59
For sure. What would you say, as you prepared to play the role of Peter, what did you want to bring into that as you approached it? And then what were your key takeaways? Because I imagine as you're playing a role, you walk away from it and there are things that you're like, I will never think of that the same. And so what were some key takeaways from that experience of playing Peter?

Casey Elliott 24:26
Yeah. So in talking with Rob, I was super excited to be able to play Peter. Number one because I love Peter. Like you I've always been fascinated with Peter and just so drawn to him. And then number two, Rob is kind of in the same boat. He also loves Peter and that's like his favorite character, right? So I'm like, oh, yes! Awesome.

And in talking with him, he actually had some really amazing insight on Peter, you know. And just the kind of the decisions that he had to make and kind of the, I guess, the bad rap, too that he gets just sometimes in the world, which is true, and surprising. You know, as I, as I started looking at it and thinking about like, yeah, Peter does kind of get a bad rap. But what was interesting, one of the conversations we had is like, how does it go from the guy who pulls out his sword and like chops off the ear of the guy in the mob it like–he's ready to take on the whole mob, right? And then literally, a few hours later, he's denying Him to like random people in the street.

And like, how does that . . . how do you connect those two? Because it seems really incongruent to go from that to that. And so, you know, he referenced this talk from Spencer W. Kimball called "Peter, My Brother," that's actually amazing. And Spencer W. Kimball kind of talks about the same thing. It's like why . . . when people malign Peter and say that he was weak, and, you know, let the Lord down, he's like, “I feel like they're maligning me. I feel like they're maligning my best friend.” And he just goes through and he talks about how we–again, we can't, we can't necessarily put our current context on the past. Not only that, we don't have a ton of detail about what was going on then. We have a few scriptures, and so we can't, we can't pass judgment.

But one of the things that he implies is like–and he makes it clear like this is, you know, just kind of his thought, his opinion but–what if it was a commandment? “Thou shalt deny me thrice”? I mean, what if that was more of a, “Look, you have a lot to do. You've got to take this thing that we've done, this church that we're building, and you've got to take it after I'm gone. And if you're not here, because you're ready to pull out your sword, or you're ready to like, say, ‘Yeah, I'll die with him right now,’ that's not going to help any of this work that we're doing. So I need you to just be okay with laying low for a minute.”

He also mentions that he never denied the divinity of Christ. He denied his association with Him–which is also an important distinction, I think. And so, I don't know. Just some of those things, like I came to the role kind of with that on my mind. And you know, when it says, "Peter went out and wept bitterly," it was cool to kind of feel not so much like, "Oh, why did I do that? I'm so weak, I feel so much shame about what I did." And it was more of a, "That was the hardest thing I've had to do. Even though I knew I needed to do it, it was still the hardest thing I've had to do." Because that, to me, is like more true to I think what a lot of our experiences are, is doing something that we really don't want to do, but we know we need to do it because it's a commandment, or it's just the right thing to do. So it was, it was just fun to kind of think about some of those things. And maybe approach it a little bit differently than I probably would have had I not had some of those conversations with Rob.

Morgan Jones 28:08
Yeah, Rob actually introduced me to that talk as well, and talked a little bit about Peter on this podcast, and I think, since then, since watching Lamb of God be performed and reading and studying a little bit about Peter, he has stood out to me a lot more. So whether it's in The Chosen, I don't know if you watch The Chosen, but their portrayal of Peter, I think what you just said is so much more consistent with–and what Spencer W. Kimball said–so much more consistent with Peter's character, as it at least is portrayed in that show. And if we read the scriptures, it seems to support that Peter is fiercely loyal, you know. And ready to like come at somebody if they come at the Savior. And so it doesn't seem super consistent, but regardless, I love in Lamb of God, regardless of what was going on that we don't know, based on the limited number of verses that we have, that in the end, Peter is resolute in saying, "For the rest of my life, I'm not going to deny you."

Casey Elliott 29:20
Yeah. And, and Peter . . . Peter, you know, he wasn't–he didn't do everything perfectly either, right? But like you said, he was loyal and he always tried. You know what I mean? Like he was always willing to say, “Okay,” like he was humble. So yeah, it's amazing.

Morgan Jones 29:39
Yeah. We have actually had a lot of guests on the show, it's kind of funny, the number of guests that have referenced Peter when we ask the question that we ask at the end of the podcast–which I will ask you here shortly–but I always think it's funny because there are a couple of Peter stories that are go-to's and they're amazing because they impact people in different ways and teach different lessons. But every time, the thing that–the point that whoever it is sharing the story is trying to get across is that Peter is a great example of being all in. And I think it is powerful to think about the fact that like, he wasn't perfect, but he sure was trying. And so why do you think Peter is such a great example of being all in the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Casey Elliott 30:34
Well, I'll answer that, in part with just one more experience that I had on set. So there's a moment in the piece where the Lord reappears, and they're on the boat, and Peter jumps off of the boat to go meet the Savior. Like that, that just without the music always moves me to tears, because it's like, he just . . . he throws it all into the sea, right? He just–no regard for himself, it just symbolically like jumping off and running toward the Savior . . . oh man.

There's–actually one of my favorite hymns, "Where Can I Turn for Peace," there's a line in there it says, "Reaches my reaching." And I love that because no matter how much effort we put in, the Lord reaches our reaching. It can be the smallest amount or it can be a Herculean effort, the Lord reaches us where we are, which is such a beautiful principle. And, you know, with Peter especially, he's. . . how do I say this. I have a friend actually, the way he puts it is, we're not defective human beings, we're human beings with defects.

And I love that because it's a reminder that it's okay. Like, it's okay to be imperfect and to make mistakes because we have the Atonement, and we have the joy of repentance. Elder Anderson, you know, refers to repentance as "the joy of repentance," like, it shouldn't be a burden. It's just part of life. Like it's okay to make mistakes, it's okay to repent and draw upon the power of the Atonement. And so I guess to me, to answer the question of like, what does it mean to be all in, it means to be okay with the defects, the good and the bad to hold them together in balance, right? It's all about balance.

How else does God know all the good and all the bad and somehow hold them perfectly in His hands, and not be completely out of His mind? Well, because He's been able to understand the principle of opposing things, right? Opposites in all things and we need the balance, we need the balance to feel that joy. And so acknowledge the things, be okay with it, and don't give up. Because I think a lot of times, we start to get discouraged or feel overwhelmed. And then it's just like, we give everything up. And I think that being all in is, you know, enduring to the end. And what that means to me is understanding that failure, and mistakes, and defects are part of the plan–it's okay. Just keep moving forward and rely on the Savior. That's all you need to do.

The Savior is who makes us whole, "Be ye therefore perfect" happens through the Savior. That's the only way it does. And so don't put it all on yourself, it's okay to put it on the Savior and to trust in the Savior more than making yourself perfect by sheer will and force.

Morgan Jones 33:48
Absolutely. And I think that is such a . . . that's such a powerful way of looking at being all in. We had a guest on the show that said, "You know, you can certainly think of all in in the traditional sense. But it can also mean that all of you is welcomed and accepted by God and that He accepts our efforts. And He made us who we are. And so of course He would want us to bring all that we are." And so, Casey, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this and for your portrayal of so many different people that I think have taught us important lessons and we are so excited to see you in Lamb of God. We're looking forward to it.

Casey Elliott 34:32
Thank you so much, Morgan.

Morgan Jones 34:37
We are so grateful to Casey Elliott for joining us on today's episode. Lamb of God opens in theaters this weekend and opening night is so important to the film's success, so visit LambofGodmovie.com for ticket information.

In anticipation for the film's release on Thursday, March 11, we'll have a special treat for you on Instagram as we will be joined at 4pm Mountain Time by Rob Gardner who previously appeared on our show, but who is one of my favorite people ever to interview. And to be honest, I just didn't want to miss out on a good excuse to talk with him again. So be sure to tune in by visiting our Instagram page @allin.podcast again, that's @allin.podcast at 4pm Mountain Time on Thursday, March 11.

A huge thank you to Derek Campbell of Mix at Six studios for his help with this, and every, episode of this podcast and thank you so much for listening. We'll look forward to another episode next week.