Astrid Tuminez: Embracing Divine Identity to Unleash Your Full Potential

Morgan Jones Pearson

I don't get to do many interviews in person these days, so I relished the opportunity to sit down with Utah Valley University president Astrid Tuminez. Immediately upon walking into her office, you get a sense of President Tuminez' personality, and I knew we'd get along just fine when I saw the Dolly Parton sticker on the back of her computer monitor. She walks in and immediately commands a room despite being just 4'11" tall. I learned following our interview that since arriving at UVU, President Tuminez has become a diehard UVU wrestling fan, a fixture at almost all of the school's wrestling matches. She knows all the wrestlers names, GPAs and their stories and they know hers. As one senior on the wrestling team put it, "A lot of times it's whoever wants it more. President Tuminez is an example of someone who wants it more. And we try to follow her example. She's a fighter. She's worked her whole life to be where she is." That is the story you are going to hear today. Dr. Astrid Tuminez was appointed the seventh president of Utah Valley University in 2008. Born in a farming village in the Philippines, she moved with her parents and siblings to the slums when she was two years old, her parents seeking better educational opportunities for their children. Her pursuit of education eventually took her to the United States, where she graduated with a bachelor's degree in International Relations and Russian literature from Brigham Young University. She later earned a Master's degree from Harvard University in Soviet studies and a PhD from MIT in political science. Before UVU, President Tuminez was an executive at Microsoft, where she led corporate external and legal affairs in Southeast Asia. She has worked in philanthropy and venture capital in New York City and is a permanent member of the Council on Foreign Relations. She contributed recently to an essay in the Deseret Book publication, "Every Needful Thing." This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am honored to have the chance to sit down with President Astrid Tuminez today. President Tuminez, it is such a pleasure to be with you. I just want to start out with your childhood, you grew up in the slums of the Philippines. And your mom left when you were five? Is that right?

Astrid Tuminez

Yes.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So how does that impact you as a person still to this day? And also after that your 15 year old sister ended up taking care of all of you so what kind of gratitude do you feel toward her?

Astrid Tuminez

Yeah, so I grew up kind of thinking of my sister as a mother figure. So first of all, the growing up in the slums, I think there's nothing that peculiar about it. There are probably billions of people in the slums even as we speak. What is peculiar about is that I got out of it. So it was definitely a hard life. Poverty is nothing to be romanticized. So you grow up with a lot of indignity, you grow up being exposed to death, you grow up being exposed to a lot of violence. You grow up also, on the flip side, thinking about how do I help myself? How do I solve my problems? How do I get along with my neighbors so they don't kill me? How do I learn from what I'm seeing around me? And to this day, I cannot fathom how my sister who was really 15 or 16, at the time, really she did it. You know, you have to do laundry by hand. There's no running water, you have to go to the well, there's no drinking water, you have to line up at 10pm at night with your bucket. And they're not even good buckets. You know, we used to use throw away cans that used to be filled with something else. And then you put a wooden thing across the opening and you nail it. Again, to this day, there are so many people living under these conditions. I think it's remarkable that my family got out of it and it is remarkable that we got out of it certainly with some trauma, but not too much trauma. So yeah, it was an amazing childhood. When I look back on it, it still is sometimes difficult to believe it. And when I've taken my children there, it's completely foreign to them. And yet I say this is how mom grew up until I was 14.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right. Well, before we move on from that period of your life, I wanted to touch on something. And in a previous interview, you said that you lived under a circumstance in which if you were to make a single mistake, it felt like it could be fatal and so you kind of lived in this fear of messing up, of making a mistake for you. Now, you've said that you've learned that it's okay to make mistakes. But how has that evolved?

Astrid Tuminez

I'm still a perfectionist. And I still don't like making mistakes. And I still over prepare, and I want my people to overprepare, because I think you never really get rid of that. I think the difference is being more relaxed about it. Because I know what success is and I also know there's a lot of safety net around me. But having that understanding at a young age that I had no margin for error, just gave me a lot of discipline, that there was no safety net, there were no parents to catch me, I couldn't throw money at my problems. I had to ask myself, How do I navigate this world? How do I navigate this? And it's not even as if I was thinking those questions in an articulate manner, you're doing it instinctively as a child. You're seeing kids drown so you're saying to yourself, I better not drown, I better not fall off the walkway during high tide. You're seeing kids get sick with worms. And so you tell yourself, how do I avoid getting worms? And so all the time, you're just kind of figuring out this navigation. And actually, that's a life skill, because you see many adults today who still cannot navigate anything, and that's very worrisome. But having no margin of error, you become smart at navigating. I mean, I even understood power at a young age when I was looking around and Filipinos, you have to be kind of fairer skin, taller nose to be immediately kind of somebody and have a good last name, because people know you're either wealthy or you're connected to politicians, or it's very stratified. So, even navigating power at a young age where I understood I had none. Therefore, how do I join that team with power?

Morgan Jones Pearson

Right. How do I gain that?

Astrid Tuminez

How do I gain that? How do I join that party? I'm obviously not part of that party at all. And have really minimal chances. And so I mean, in hindsight, I can reflect on all this and analyze it. But as it was happening, it was just a question of survival and the day to day.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Absolutely. So when you were a little girl, you were how old when the nuns came and found you and your sisters.

Astrid Tuminez

I was five years old.

Morgan Jones Pearson

And what do you think it was about you and your sisters? Obviously, there were many children that were living under those circumstances, what was it about you all that you think attracted them to you and led them to give you the opportunity of a lifetime really?

Astrid Tuminez

My older sisters tell me that it was because we were talkative and probably speaking with my mother. So even though my mother wasn't well educated, I can definitely see later on. I could see later on as an adult looking at my mother that she's actually someone who's very much a go getter, very type A, very restless, very hardworking. So I think they probably sensed that in my mother also. And then, the nun, Sister Elvira Correa, I mean, I've seen her many times since. She always says that I was very talkative. And she was the one who engineered the whole thing. And she thought, this girl has something, this girl has something. And so it's probably instinct, it's the Spirit of God, because these nuns are always praying and they spend all their lives being married to Jesus Christ. That's how they are. And I can imagine that the goodness in their hearts, and then the experience unfolding in front of them, [and that] led them to have that insight that 'this is a family, we should help.' And again, that was just truly a miracle.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that you attribute that to their being in tune to the Spirit. And that's amazing to me. So prior to that you had never read a book. You were only five so

Astrid Tuminez

I was only five. We had no books and no radio, no television. We owned one book and that was the Webster's pocket dictionary.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Goodness, had you tried to read that?

Astrid Tuminez

Not really, because I couldn't read at that point. I remember, I had five sisters, I remember the word sister was really important to me. And I knew some letters. And I actually remember knowing that it began with S I S. That's it. I didn't know what came after. And I was really worried people would ask me to spell the whole word. And then I'd be revealed as a charlatan who couldn't spell or read.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So you get to the school and immediately you start devouring this opportunity to learn. The nuns gave you an opportunity that I don't think can be measured with any amount of money. What role did having that opportunity to gain an education? What did it do for your life, if you had to sum it up?

Astrid Tuminez

I think it's the pivot. So everyone, you know, almost all people in their lives will say that was the pivot where I either turned dark, or it is the pivot where I turned light, or that's the pivot when I discovered who I was. So it was the pivot for me in the sense that prior to being in that structure of a school, and we were in the free department, which is where the poor people went, there was a rich department across the street. And that was where kids with maids and chauffeurs you know, the wealthy children would be dropped off, most of us walked to the free department. Going to school at Collegio del Sagrado Corazon de Jesus, College of the Sacred Heart of Jesus was a true pivot for me. And that pivot meant discovering that there was a whole world called reading, there's a whole world called numbers. And you know, realizing that I honestly didn't know, what was the difference between zero and 100. And I kept getting zeros from the teacher on my paper. And I just thought it was such a great score. So I would run home and get so excited. And then my father had to explain Oh, actually, that's not very good. You have to have the one and 00, that's the best score, not this one. And I had a very strict teacher, I was called a visitor. They didn't put me in first grade, again, because I was basically illiterate. And they seated the the kids, you know, first seat first row, the smartest, last seat last row, the dumbest, and I was in the last seat last row. And what was beautiful was—just getting the skills was wonderful with this really strict teacher. And as soon as she found out that I could do things...she would give me more and more and more. And she was moving me until I was in the first seat, first row. So that was beautiful, just getting the skills and knowing that I could read and I could understand. And then second expanding that, reading everything in the library, you couldn't get me out of there. And also, I had no money for recess to buy peanuts, or Coca Cola. So I would just go to the library, because it's very embarrassing. When other kids are eating and you have nothing. And then the final thing was just learning to be competitive. I thought, I'm good at this, I'm just gonna run with this. And I'm just going to be really the best at this. So discovering competitiveness, because I was so ashamed to be the worst. And in my culture shaming and naming is a good thing. And in America, everybody gets a trophy. I mean, in Asian culture, they name you and shame you. And that has its good and bad effects. But I think the good effect for me was wanting to be competitive. And that's been my modus operandi, since you know, just oh, I don't know that. How can I learn that really quickly? And how can I be as good if not better than everybody else?

Morgan Jones Pearson

I'm also a very competitive person so we would get along well. President, I wanted to ask you about potential and about what it means to you in retrospect that these teachers saw you in that last seat last row and recognized your potential. What does it do for a student when they have a teacher that recognizes and sees potential and encourages that potential?

Astrid Tuminez

I often like to say that no person is self made. And when any person is arrogant enough to say they're self made, they have done zero self introspection. And so that ties in with your question about potential who sees your potential takes a risk in you, invests in you, so people around us have done that for us, whether that's our parents, our teachers, neighbors or bosses. And for me what it means, especially now that I'm running a university Utah Valley University is open admission. When I applied for this job, I found that a little bit nervewracking—that you accept everybody. That's sort of the opposite of everything I've known. The main thing I've known is to compete really, really hard. And I knew that in high school, I knew that when I started at the University of the Philippines, and I really had to look at this model, and I became really quite intrigued by it and enamored by it, and now totally committed to it, where the purpose of education becomes not exclusion, but inclusion. And the question to ask is not, who can we keep out? The riffraff? But how do you help develop every kind of human potential. So for example, when we say to someone, your ACT score is low, and your GPA is low, don't apply. Basically, we're writing them off at the age of 18. And in business, you wouldn't do that. You kind of look at all of the assets you have. And I mean in business you write things off too if it's really not working. But generally, I think the idea of abundance or the idea of human potential has to be a little bit different, even the American way. And I am an American by immigration, right? I came here not as an American, I came here as a Filipino. But I think the whole idea of the American dream, and the American way should be that human potential is treated with a sense of abundance, that people who were written off in high school or were bullied or didn't have good clothes, or were hated by their teachers or their guidance counselor, why are we writing them off? And so that's where the idea of transforming that human potential through education comes in. It's very complicated when you're educating a very diverse university or a classroom where you're combining someone with a 14 ACT and someone with a 34 ACT or a 1.6 GPA and a 4.0 GPA, you really have to teach in a different way. And you have to grow confidence. And so I feel strongly about it, because I think investing in human capital is something that we should do. Yes, not everyone will go to Harvard or MIT where I did my graduate work, but who cares, other people are smarter than I am. EMTs can save a life. The dental hygienist can save teeth, who am I to talk with the kind of education that I had? So there are different intelligences and there are different skills. And I think it's using education, post-secondary education, actually education from pre K, all the way to whatever people want to attain, I think we should live that more, more sincerely and more effectively. And that we don't all become elitist snobs because that becomes quite boring. And in America today, where seriously, inequality in this country is terrible. And I grew up in a third world country, I know what that kind of thing does to people, to individuals, to families, the cities right now have crime, you're gonna need more prisons. Is that really what we want? Or do we have the courage and commitment to say, we are really about human potential in many forms, and are willing to work with that human potential so that it can find where it needs to go, to live a dignified and productive life?

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well lift everyone I love that idea. President Tuminez, I found it interesting that you found The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while you were in school where these nuns had taken you. How does that even happen?

Astrid Tuminez

Well, you know, in the old days, all the missionaries would go tracting. And almost all the missionaries at the time were from Utah or from from America. So all Americans and the first set of missionaries that came to the slums actually one of them fell into the water. It was really filthy. And so that discouraged them from returning, but they left our names, my family's name in a drawer in the bungalow where they lived, which was also used as a chapel. They taught my older sisters and I didn't join the Church right away. It's funny, but I drank beer as a child. So did my sisters, and so for us is like why would you change religion, and then give up your beer? And of course, we're very close to the nuns. They were really our mothers and our mentors. And it was very, very tough to give that up. And I was so devout as a Catholic. I went to church, I went to Confession every week without fail. I prayed the rosary all the time and so that was actually difficult. And I think I was second to last, over two, three years, we all eventually, maybe over a couple of years, my father took forever, maybe four years to join the church. So I went through many sets of missionaries. And I had a lot of questions even though I was very young, I was 10 years old, I had a lot of questions. And I just loved that they were teaching that I was a child of God, that I was as worthy as anybody and growing in a culture like that that was so socioeconomically stratified, and you grow up thinking you're nothing. It was such a liberating theology, if you will, to be taught that I was a child of God, and that my potential was limitless. It's totally radical, it's totally revolutionary. And to get a 10 year old to believe that? She starts thinking she's unstoppable. So I joined the church. And I think it was such a great influence in my life, because it gave me a lot of aspiration, a lot of discipline. The church programs to this day, where my youngest, for example, goes to young men, I think these programs are amazing. And you have adults who care enough to invest their time, not everybody does it well. But those who do it well truly can change lives and be mentors and critical influence to the lives of young people. By the way, whether or not they stay in the Church, someday they will remember that leader who said something to them or lived a certain way or spoke with compassion, they remember. That's all in the brain. That's all in the memory.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I think that's something that we often underestimate within the Church is how much time people are investing. I often think if I could go back to my young women's leaders, I would thank them for taking PTO to go to girls camp. That's a big deal. President Tuminez, I think about that experience that you had growing up in the slums of the Philippines, and how it must have been so life-changing to learn that, like you said about your divinity, that you were a child of God, and to be able to recognize that was within you all along, you had all of these natural abilities and talents. But also just innately, did you did you have a sense that you were a child of God prior to learning about the gospel of Jesus Christ? Or was that just mind-blowing to you?

Astrid Tuminez

Well, certainly, as a Catholic, I had a sense that I was a child of God, but you know, a lot of it was very fear driven, you're gonna go to hell if you make bad decisions, or you commit sin, it was very fear driven. And when I joined the church, there was certainly still a bit of being fear driven. But suddenly, the vista that opened completely was this vista of eternal progression, that I truly literally was a child of God. And so even though you fear judgment, at the same time, there was just a big rewarding side to it that was full of light that was about progression that was about learning from your mistakes, and then picking yourself up again. And I think I really latched on to that, it certainly was not easy to always think in that sense, because we always think about doing wrong things. But I think as I have gotten older, that continues for me to be one of the most profound principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ, that I am not my darkest moment, I am not my mistakes, I am not my foibles, I am actually already loved, I am actually already saved, I am actually already accepted for everything that I am. And that divinity, which I think ought not to be denied, we make it little, it ought to be writ large, that we are already divine. And we should really just be in awe of that every single day, practically how I applied that was really thinking, nothing can stop me. Nothing can stop me because I already know who I am. And if I could just remember who I am, then you know, I could keep going, no matter what blows life would send my way. And we all know, life will send terrible blows our way. But we are still children of God. And we are worthy.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I think that's why President Nelson recently has emphasized over and over again that idea of identity. Because when we understand our identity that changes everything.

Astrid Tuminez

And not just for us. I think it's so important to apply that to everybody else, that everybody else is not the sum of their darkest moments, or their sins, or their sorrow or their grief, they are still full of light because that is the revolutionary idea. And I think that's what Christ taught.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I completely agree. So, President, I would love to know from there, you ended up coming to the United States and you came, I believe some of your sisters were already here. And how did you make that decision to come? And then once you decided to come, you face some pretty serious opposition in getting here. Talk to me about the persistence that that required?

Astrid Tuminez

Of course. I got into BYU pretty quickly, I had a scholarship at the University of the Philippines and I had already gone I think, three semesters. And I got into BYU, they didn't give me any academic credit, but they accepted me. So I was very excited. The major hurdle was really getting a US visa. So in order to get a US visa to study in the United States, you have to show that you own land, or a car or house or assets that will persuade the consoles at the embassy that you intend to return and you will not be a liability to the US government, or the American system. And so I applied. The first time I got turned down, I was still, you know, you don't have any money, you don't have a bank account, you're liability, we can't let you into the United States, I applied again, a second time, got the same story. And so for the third time, I thought I would fast for 48 hours.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Naturally,

Astrid Tuminez

I was, I probably weighed 79 pounds at the time of thinking about fasting for 48 hours. I fasted for 48 hours, and you have to send this long, long line at the US Embassy, like for three hours, until they let you in, and then you go inside. And it was terrible. It was the same outcome. So I was ready to give up. But there was a family in my ward, a beautiful Mexican American family, the Gomezes, Fernando and Cata Gomez, and their daughter Susie was a very good friend of mine. And they were really kind of upset about this outcome because they thought that I should go to BYU and get an education. And so they actually went to the embassy. And you know, interceded on on my behalf. And because of that, I was able to get a visa. And so the rest of that opened the door for me to be in the United States to get an even better education at BYU, to get mentored by professors who to this day are a big influence in my life. And then you'll go to Harvard and MIT. So all of that—just one door opening one after another, and getting help all along the way. That's pretty remarkable. Beautiful.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So you come here to the United States. Once you arrive, I imagined that there was quite the transition, quite the adjustment to American culture. What was that like for you?

Astrid Tuminez

Yes, the adjustment was easy, in some ways, and really difficult. In other ways. It was very easy in that for the first time in my life, I had nonstop electricity, running water, a nice bed to sleep on. And I lived with my sister and her husband in Orem. And I was just so excited that their apartment had carpet. And it was not a very nice apartment, in hindsight, but just that they had carpet and I would lie down on the floor and do my homework. And I thought, why doesn't everyone here get straight A's if they have carpet and running water and electricity. So that was the easy part. And some of the hard part is you don't have any mobility if you don't drive and don't have a car, and just adjusting to the whole way of life in the United States, a whole new diet, different people. And even some of my ideas like what are returned missionaries, like some of it, I was crushed by it, because I just held them in such high regard. And some lived up to it, but others were very disappointing. That's because you know, when you are out in the field out there, you just think this missionaries are perfect. And I felt very short. Interestingly, that was one of my challenges. Like, I was so short, and everybody's so tall and don't have to wear like toed shoes all the time. And finding that I had to support myself as well. Getting a job working, the maximum that I could work as an international student was 20 hours. So working a lot, taking a lot of credit hours getting really good grades, so I could have the scholarship. And it's very funny. I actually got a Lamanite Scholarship, which is really funny because I went to the Lamanite office and I referenced Hagoth in the Book of Mormon, and I said he could have ended up in Southeast Asia there are a lot of islands out there. And so they helped me with my books and I was really glad. You know, one of the things I learned was that skill of navigating again back to the slums, I'm now in a new context. How do I navigate this? How do I ask for help? My mentor, Professor Gary Browning, who was the chair of the department of Slavic, and Germanic languages, I remember going to him for a job on my very first week at school. And he needed a secretary. And so he had me take a typing test. I had never typed anything official before, I had probably seen an electric typewriter one time in my island, and used an electric typewriter. I didn't know where to put the date or the salutation. So I failed that miserably. And he didn't give up on me. He said, Why don't you go downstairs and take a spelling test? Of course, I was a massive reader. I could spell anything. And so I went into the spelling test and 100%. And he hired me. And so I was really glad I had those navigation skills. And I could ask, and also that there was somebody named Gary Browning, who said, I'll take a risk in you. I'll do it. And my whole time, I worked only for him the whole time.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I love that story. I was actually going to ask you about that. So I'm so glad you told that story. Yeah. So from there from BYU, you ended up going to Harvard? Is that right? That's the right order of operations. And at Harvard, that is where you met your husband. And you've said that that was one of the most important decisions of your life was marrying the man that you married because of the way that he is empowered and encouraged you. Tell me a little bit about what that looks like in practice?

Astrid Tuminez

Yes. So you know, graduating single from BYU, that's an accomplishment.

Morgan Jones Pearson

I have the same accomplishment.

Astrid Tuminez

All my roommates got married. And [I thought], man, what's wrong with me? So getting to Harvard, and meeting Jeffrey, my husband, Jeffrey Tolk, that's a critical pillar, if you will of my life. And I always tell my children, the most important decision you'll ever make is whom you marry, it affects your gene pool, it affects your life, all aspects of your life. And what was funny with Jeff was when we were dating at Harvard, he was a senior about to start law school at Harvard. And he'd also done undergraduate there, and I was a master's degree student, but when we got engaged, I don't know, I don't remember how this happened. Exactly. You know, he just kind of turned to me, we were walking in Cambridge, and he says, I'm not responsible for your happiness. And I was just so struck by that. In my generation, I think we sold the myth that you just get married, and the heavens part and you're gonna be happy forever. And that's completely untrue. And that was my expectation that you got married, and suddenly, as a woman, you're all set for life. And when he said that to me, it kind of froze me in my tracks. It shocked me that this man I'm about to marry told me I'm responsible for my happiness. But that was such a wonderful thing to say to me. Because I took it seriously, I'm responsible for my happiness, I'll navigate my own life. And because of that, we were mutually very supportive of each other's education, of each other's aspirations. And my first biggest job was in the Soviet Union. And Jeff is actually in New York, starting his career as a litigator in securities. And just the fact that we lived apart but I would come home to New York every six weeks say hello to him, when that's totally something most people didn't understand. And yet that we had that commitment to one another, and to supporting each other's dreams. And that's what I think is a secret. I always say a good marriage is one long conversation. If you have nothing more to say to each other and you're not interested in arguments or insight or you some surprising idea, I think the marriage falters, at least for me, and so this kind of mutual support and mutual respect for one another's dreams and one another's ideas has really really been important to my marriage and no one's prouder of what I accomplished than my husband. He just loves it. I I'm like that's so important, especially because I did not have parents who growing upwere always clapping for you. I got a medal in school and everybody had a parent and I didn't. For my graduation in sixth grade, I remember I was the salutatorian and my father was late because we were such an informal family. We grew up in the slums, anything went, and and just having my husband be there to be my cheerleader. I think that's really important. And, of course, again, that's unfolding, I don't know that, I'm in my 20s. But again, as I look back, it's really wonderful to have someone cheering for you. And, for me, that's my husband. He himself accomplished great things in his career. And you know really was a terrific partner for raising our children.

Morgan Jones Pearson

So well said and so good to hear. I'm in year one of marriage. So that's a really good advice.

Astrid Tuminez

Honeymoon stage. Talk to me 20 years.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well I also wanted to ask you, you had kind of through a string of events, you ended up in a career that you yourself said was not a strength. Talk to me about that about recognizing that sometimes we end up in a career path or in a job that might not be our strength, but we can still learn from that.

Astrid Tuminez

Yeah. So maybe I'll step back from the question a little bit. One of the things that's really central to me ever since I was a child was the passage of time. I remember as a little girl crying because the day was over. And I'll never get it back. I don't know where that was coming from. But to this day, I begin with that, because I think careers are part of time, careers are part of one life, and you'll never getting back, you will never get the time that has gone. And so I've always approached careers as it's just part of the one wonderful life that I have. And therefore, if something's interesting, even though I know nothing about it, I will go for it. So that's probably the reason why my career has been really varied. Where I've worked in academia, in philanthropy, on Wall Street and technology. And now running a university, it's always been driven by this sense of time. What else do I want to learn? What else do I want to know. And even though I'm ignorant in that subject, hey, I know 10,000 other things, and maybe they can teach me that. And I'll work really hard and learn and prove what I can do. So I don't know if that answers your question. But that's the reason why I have had what I call a zigzaggy career. But at Utah Valley University, I find that everything I've learned in philanthropy, investment, academic administration, technology, peacekeeping in the southern Philippines, peace negotiations is applicable to a university because that's how diverse universities are. Every aspect of running it requires this composite set of skills to be able to see and understand what's going on.

Morgan Jones Pearson

President when you made the decision to come here to Utah Valley University, you were working for Microsoft, and you said prior to that you would switch jobs every four to seven years, because you would get kind of bored. But you were at Microsoft, and you loved your job. So what was it that made you make that big decision to come here?

Astrid Tuminez

So Microsoft is really a great place to work, I think, in fact that it was the best job that prepared me to become a university president, particularly given where we are today in the digital economy, the fourth industrial revolution, and so on. So the job happened in a somewhat haphazard way that I wasn't looking for a job as a university president, but a friend of mine, who was an adjunct professor, who is still here actually is an adjunct professor of art and design was visiting me in Singapore. And I was really growing at Microsoft, you know, technology is an amazing field to be in, there's never a boring day, and the portfolio is so large that you'll never get bored. And my friend just casually suggested, "Hey, you should apply for this job. You know, UVU is looking for a new president." And I kind of dismissed it right away. I don't have any plans to be a university president. Interestingly, the thought wouldn't leave my head. And I call that inspiration. I call that the spirit. You know, the Spirit tells you, the universe is telling you, this is something to explore. And so I looked up UVU and I was just shocked at how much it has grown and evolved into this amazing institution with big ambitions while it still carries within its DNA, a lot of you know humility, workforce orientation, technical Education, bachelor's degrees, everything. And so I was really, really intrigued. And I decided to apply. And the rest of it, as they say, is history. And I really wasn't sure how I would fit in. But the more I learned about UVU, the more I realized that I could use all of my skill sets here. And then the other question was really impact. So certainly in the corporate world, I could have a lot of impact. But you know, at the end of the day, there are pressures in the corporate world that are a bit different in the academic world. I think in the academic world, there is a lot more space for, you know, pure idealism, while at the same time, you have to be really hard nosed, about your competition and your resources and how you use them. So anyway, I came, and it has not disappointed me in any way. I've been here for four and a half years and I still feel that if I were just looking for meaning, you don't come to UVU for money, you come here for meaning. You come here for human potential, and day after day, it will deliver for you. And I think nothing is more rewarding than that. So yes, I'm here and I love it. And I have no regrets.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, you've done a wonderful job, what would you say is your greatest hope for this time in your life for your presidency here at UVU?

Astrid Tuminez

My greatest hope in my life is not just UVU, obviously. So you know, my greatest hope, actually, first and foremost is for my children, and my husband, that they continue to pursue their dreams, and never stop having a really full and rewarding life. And for UVU, of course, we have many dreams here. I think we have a 21st century model of education that really works. We accept everyone, we have scale. And we do everything here from certificates, associate, bachelors, and masters degrees. We're very pragmatic about the education that we want to deliver. We have faculty who are very committed to improving the human condition and to having social justice and, and really living inclusion, not that you feel sorry for those who are underrepresented but you have an ability to use all of the resources of the university to lift everybody up because I think when they succeed, everybody becomes less tribal, when there is more success. So we have many dreams in terms of having more students complete degrees, moving on into the world of work and life and succeeding as active citizens, as fulfilled individuals, and as productive members of society. And we have ways to measure that. We have many other dreams here that are very specific to areas that we work in, whether that's engineering or the health professions or mental health, we are a very big player in mental health and that's an issue in Utah and around the world. So whether you're talking about educating nurses, teachers, guidance counselors, substance abuse disorder specialists, we are doing all of that here, and 78% of our alumni are still here, 10 years out. So the big dream is hopefully on my deathbed, I can look back at Utah Valley University or Utah, the state of Utah, and say, "Wow, I was a part of that amazing story whose ending I did not even see or whose further evolution I did not even see." You cannot walk up and down our corridors here and not feel energized by the students. They come in all shapes and sizes, all levels of confidence. And you have to help them open their eyes to their own potential, and navigate their lives and navigate education, and fight for themselves because they're worth it. And I often tell students, you're not doing this for your mother, you're not doing this for your father or your grandparents or your boyfriend, you're doing this for you because you are worth it. No one can take that from you. If you believe you're worth it. Nothing's hard, you'll get it done. And when you are successful, then you help others.

Morgan Jones Pearson

Well, I completely agree with you. I had never been on this campus until today. And I walked through and it really was...there's a good energy and I'm grateful for the chance to have been with you today and appreciate your time so much. My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Astrid Tuminez

To be all in in the gospel of Jesus Christ for me is to wake up every day in awe of this world, and of every human being and to be able to open my eyes to everything good, bad, up, down, sorrowful, joyful, and to know that all of that is something that I need to embrace, and that I need to constantly become more Christlike, so be in awe, embrace it all, and my job is to remember that the gospel is about developing a more Christlike character. And I have to do that with both awe and joy. Beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you. We are so grateful to President Tuminez for joining us on today's episode. Big thanks to KSL for their help with this episode and to Derek Campbell for his help with the audio as always. If you'd like to read more about President Tuminez's experiences, you can find an essay she wrote in the new Deseret Book publication, "Every Needful Thing." Thank you so much for listening, and we'll look forward to being with you again next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai