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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: In 2022 following his portrayal as Joseph Smith in the film Witnesses, Paul Wuthrich was quoted in the Deseret News as saying it might not be trendy to have faith nowadays. I don't think it's popular to have faith, but it's a noble thing to believe in something and to commit to something higher than yourself.

In the roles that he has taken and in the roles he has turned down, and even in the roles he wanted but didn't get it is clear Paul Wuthrich believes in and is committed to something higher than himself. Paul Wuthrich is a Utah based actor known for starring roles in Escape from Germany, six days in August.

Witnesses and Joseph Smith, American Prophet Paul has also been featured in many other films, including The Fighting Preacher and Love Kennedy. After years. Spent working full time behind and in front of the camera. Paul has pivoted into a commercial real estate career, but he still maintains a love for acting and the sharing of inspiring stories.

He and his wife are the parents of two young children and he stars in TC Christensen's new film Raising the Bar, which opens in theaters this week.

This is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask. The question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson and I am so honored to have Paul Wuthrich welcome. So glad to have you. I have been a fan of your work. You do such a good job. You're such a good actor. And you, some of the movies that you've been in, I, me and my husband, we've really enjoyed watching.

So I wanna start with something and then if it's okay with you, we will work. Backward. But you have played the role of Joseph Smith in multiple movies now, and I imagine that that is likely what people will associate you with. If they see you, they'll be like, oh, that's the guy that played Joseph Smith.

So talk to me about the weight of that role and how you approached it and what it has meant to you to play the role of Joseph Smith.

[00:02:10] Paul Wuthrich: Absolutely. Well thank you and, uh, thank you for having me on. I'm, I'm honored to be here. On the All In podcast, I love, I love what you're doing with this. Yes, Joseph Smith.

It was a, uh, a daunting role to take on and a dream role. Uh, if I'm being honest, I like to think I started preparing to play the role many years ago as a missionary. I found some copies of. Truman Matson's lectures on Joseph Smith. Uh, he has a whole series of lectures on who he was as a person. Uh, they go into the first vision and aftermath, his personality.

And then when I got home from my mission, I discovered there was a whole nother I. Set of lectures another five or six hours, all about the teachings of Joseph Smith. And I just loved those, uh, CDs is what I used at the time. And I would just drive around and I would put them in my car and I would listen to them on repeat.

I, I don't even know how many times I completed all several hours of the lecture, and then I would just start over again. And during that time. I began to just form in my mind this image of Joseph Smith that I, I feel like I really connected with and got along with, and it wasn't so much the image that maybe we're used to seeing it portrayed in, in film and church videos and things like that, but I just tried to pay close attention to his personality and nuances, and I wanted to get to know him as a person.

And, uh, I love that Truman Madson talked about how emotional he could be, how he was quick to, to cry and quick to laugh and quick to play and to wrestle and, you know, break somebody's leg because he got so caught up in having fun. And I, I loved all of those colors of his personality and, and not that I don't love all the other depictions of him in film, but I just felt like we didn't get to see all of those colors because we so often see him portrayed.

I. Very prophetic, and I think that's out of respect and love. And so when I got the audition sides for witnesses, you know, as an actor, you don't know much about the film you're auditioning for. I got two scenes and the first scene that I got was the scene where he loses his temper with Martin Harris for losing the 116 pages.

And the second scene was the scene where Oliver Cowdry confronts him about polygamy. And I just remember thinking, wow, this is going to be a very different Joseph Smith than we're used to seeing, because I have heard that story a lot of times with the 116 pages and I've never seen that depicted. Right.

And I had studied polygamy and, and gone down that rabbit hole of church history, so to speak. And uh, that's another thing that I'd never seen confronted on film. For the world to see. And, and so I prepared for the role and I, I walked into the audition room and I was so happy to see Mark and Russ, the writer and directors of the film.

I had the privilege of working with them two years prior on American Prophet Joseph Smith, American Prophet, a documentary. I played Sidney Rigdon in that, and I did my best. I gave it my all and was blessed to get the part, and then the whole script came and. I loved it. It, it was to me that Joseph, that I had always wanted to be and see, and the fact that I got to play him in this depiction, I've had people say, oh, that's my, my favorite depiction of Joseph Smith because of how human he was and how, you know, it showed all of these different colors of him and.

And I am flattered. I I, that's very nice. But that credit absolutely goes to Mark and Russ and James, the writers and directors and producers who were bold enough to portray him in that way and write him in that way. And for me as an actor to step into that, um, it was just such a blessing. And then to come back and finish him, so to speak, his character in six days in August was a huge blessing.

I didn't know if I'd come back after witnesses. That film was Joseph, kind of as an emerging prophet, a young prophet trying to figure himself out and who he was and who he was with God and what this calling meant for him and his family and his friends. And then in six days in August, he's, he's more fully stepped into that prophetic role and you, you really see the price.

That he pays. You know, one, one of the scenes I loved in six days in August was there's a scene where he is standing before the NA Legion and he's, he's gonna fight. And as me and Mark we're talking about that scene, we're talking about kind of where it needed to start and how it needed to progress and how it needed to end.

And I loved it because to me, that scene is Joseph's life in a nutshell. He was this rough stone rolling as he calls himself a passionate fighter. Yet by the end, he submitted to God's will. Right? It's, Hey, you're not asking me to fight. And the question that was posed as me and Mark discussed this, um, that was on both of our minds, was, what is the price of living a consecrated life?

What's that cost? Joseph died for the gospel. But the reason his death was meaningful was because he lived for the gospel. And I just think that he encapsulated that so well. And, and, uh, you know, if you think of Christ, you know, his, he, we often say, oh, Christ died for our sins. But before he died for our sins, he lived for our sins.

Right? His death was meaningful because he sacrificed to live a perfect life. And I love that Joseph time after time, humbled himself, submitted himself to God's will. And paid the price to live as best as he could, a consecrated life. And so to, to bring that full circle across those two films certainly has been an honor as not only an actor, but just as a person who has a love for him.

Um, the fact that I get to have my testimony. Out there for the world to see and to give to my kids and to have recorded somewhat immortalized is a huge blessing that not a lot of people get. And so, uh, I'm just really grateful for it.

[00:08:38] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that idea of. Submission being a big part of living a consecrated life.

I don't know that I've ever thought of it entirely that way, but speaking of your testimony being what you're portraying, there was an interaction that you had with, uh, Oliver Cowdry. Uh, the, the actor

[00:09:02] Paul Wuthrich: Yes. That

[00:09:03] Morgan Jones Pearson: played Oliver Cowdery in witnesses where he made a comment to you. I can tell by the way you act that you really believe this.

Tell me a little bit about how you feel like, uh, your testimony kind of comes through in your acting, or what difference does that make and, and about that interaction that you had. I think that's, it's. That's a high, I think it's a compliment.

[00:09:25] Paul Wuthrich: Yeah. Yeah. I, I loved working with Caleb. He was the actor who played Oliver Cowdry and we filmed witnesses.

We spent a week in Canada, upper Canada Village. We spent a week in Boston, some time in Rochester, New York, and then some time in Utah. And while we were up in, you know, back east in Canada and, and Boston. Me and him would, would go on a lot of walks. He would get up early and go to breakfast together and, and he's from la he's a non-member of the church and he loved to.

Push me, I guess is the best word to say. He, he was always kind of challenging me on, oh, okay, you believe this and, and what about this? And, and you know, he, he wanted to see if I had substance to my beliefs or if I was just kind of along for the ride. And I love that because I, I think Oliver did that to Joseph and so it was very fitting for him and his personality and, and after some time of this, yeah, we were sitting at lunch one day and he made a remark about.

About the amount of faith that it, that it takes for somebody to buy into a story like this. Because it's, it's very fantastical. You know, this kid goes into a grove of trees and sees God and Christ, and then this angel appears and gives him a golden record. And the whole thing is, it's pretty fantastical.

And, and he just made a remark like, you know, that just takes so much faith. And I said, thank you. And he said, I didn't mean that as a compliment. And, uh, we kind of laughed about it and I said, well, you know, I'll take it as one and. It absolutely does play a role in, in, uh, what I bring to the table and to a character.

I mean, my faith has played a larger role in, in shaping my acting career and my, you know, my actual career. And, you know, it's just the way I orient my life. And so, you know, as much as you want to take on a, a character, I've, I just, I choose projects where I can. Make my faith a part of it, right? Because someone might say, well, you know, as an actor you, you should be able to kind of separate yourself and maybe for other parts, yeah, I might ha you might have to try and be in a character that has other worldviews and things like that.

I have been blessed that I, I get to portray characters that, that I can be on the same page with as far as that's concerned. And. And that's, those are the rules I I choose to take. And for me, if my personal testimony can come through in those moments in an honest way that's true to the character, then I feel like that's a win for me as well as a win for the character and hopefully a win for the audience

[00:12:06] Morgan Jones Pearson: for sure.

Well, I think, I think you're right. That is an incredibly rare opportunity to be able to portray characters that you. Not only like revere, but truly believe, you know, you believe the same things they believe. Um, speaking of weighty characters, I understand that you audition for the role of Jesus in the Book of Mormon videos.

I am curious, how do you even approach auditioning for the role of the savior?

[00:12:40] Paul Wuthrich: Yes. That, that is one of the, uh, the larger. Acting professional rejections that I've received. But I, I loved it. Honestly, the whole process was kind of its own thing and, and I have a lot of fondness towards that experience, so that, that process took place over the course of six months or so.

And I had actually been rejected for, uh, Nephi and I had a, I think I had a callback for Heliman and then I went out for Amin and maybe Alma, the younger even. And so there, there was a handful of roles that I had. Thrown my hat in the ring, so to speak, for the Book of Mormon. I thought it'd be so cool to be a part of it.

And, and, uh, Jesus Christ playing him. That, that was my last hoorah. I thought, if I can't land this, I'm probably not gonna land anything. And so I, you know, and the script, the sides they send you is, uh, you, you submit a headshot and you submit some basic information and then, and then they just send you back pages from 35.

I mean, that was the script. It was like, Hey, memorize. Uh, this chapter or maybe memorize this entire page from Third Nefi. And then those were video submissions. So you would videotape yourself and send it in, and then you wouldn't hear back. And, you know, six weeks later, two months later, three months later, you'd get, say, Hey, you're still in the running.

And then you'd submit another couple of pages. And so over the course of six months, um, it narrowed down and then I, I had the opportunity to go down to the motion picture Studio Law in Provo. And there was me and two other actors and they, they did a screen test, so there was a full wardrobe and hair, and they filled in my patchy beard and they brought an audience in and my parents got to come sit and be in the crowd and they filmed me as Jesus Christ.

And I think there was four or five pages of scripture from 35 that you had to memorize and perform. And it was just incredible. The whole, the whole thing was just an incredible experience. You know, it's to study. We, we, we so often study in third person, right, because that's the way that it is. But to study Joseph Smith or to study Jesus Christ, to be that person, it just takes this mental shift because you're on the giving end and not the receiving end.

So for example, if I am Jesus Christ and I am coming down and here are my people and they've just been through three days of darkness and pain and sorrow, what am I going to say to them? And why do I start the way that I start? And then as he progresses through his teachings. You know, there's just, I, you have to come up with motivations for why you're saying what you're saying when you're saying it, right.

For any character, but especially for something like that. And, and when you think about that, you really think about, okay, you know, why would he say this now to these people? One of the things that, that really stood out to me was he comes down and, and one by one, they touch his hands and his feet until the whole crowd of 2000 somewhat people have touched him and he's had this face-to-face interaction with them.

And then he teaches them for a few chapters and then he says, I'm gonna leave now. And, and he can tell in their faces that he just wants, they want him to stay so badly. And so then he says, you know, have ye any sick among you have Y any that are lame or halt or you know that are in need, bring them to me, that I can heal them.

Well, he's asking a question. He already knows the answer to, not only because he is Christ, but because he just had this personal interaction with every single one of those people. I thought, wait a minute, if I'm Jesus Christ and all I want is for these people to be whole, why did I wait so long to offer them healing?

I've waited four chapters. I was on my way out. Wouldn't I have wanted to do that at the very beginning? And suddenly I realized that, you know, Christ requires something of us. You know, he, he says, I can tell by your faith that you. You have this faith in me. And now that you've shown that, now I can feel that in you now that you, my teachings are being received, you are at a place that you can be healed.

And suddenly I realized that in my life, maybe I haven't been waiting on Christ for all of these things. Maybe Christ has been waiting on me. And that was kind of an eye-opening, uh, moment for me.

[00:17:37] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's awesome. I am curious, how did you, so you mentioned that you had auditioned for several different roles.

How did you handle the rejection or disappointment of not getting a role? I feel like it's almost like. My husband and I, he was in the middle of like, job recruiting and you start to like visualize yourself in a place and then only to find out that you're not actually moving to that place. I feel like auditioning for a role would be similar, where it's like you're, you're, you've seen yourself in that role and then you don't actually get to play it, so how do you, how do you handle that?

[00:18:20] Paul Wuthrich: Yeah. I. I will tell people, I, I get to go speak at some youth fireside and things, and I say, Hey, if you, if you wanna become immune to rejection, just go be an actor for a while. Right? That's 90% of 95% even of what you go through, right? You, you, you get a, a scene aside and you spend all of this time not only memorizing, but creating a character and making choices.

You, you do. You have to visualize yourself in that role. You have to create this character to to do it well. And then you show up to a room and there's six other guys that are just better looking versions of you. Because you're all going out for the same part and you're, you know, signing in, you're signing in your name and it's like, what part are you going for?

And you see Joseph, Joseph, Joseph, and it's like, oh, great. You know, and, uh, and then you walk in and there's a little taped X and you stand on it and you, you give it your all for all of four minutes. And they say thank you, and then you leave and you never hear back. And that, that is the life of an actor, at least actors like me.

And so. It's so difficult not to give. Get your hopes up. And I just, I learned a long time ago that as soon as you walk out that door, you just let it go. There's just so many things you cannot control. Um, doesn't matter how talented you are, how much you spend on the script, how much cho, how many choices you made.

And you know, it's like if you're. They're not the right height. Your hair color's wrong. It's too short, too long. Eyes are the wrong color. You know, there's all manner of things and they're just out of your control. And so there is kind of this point where you have to get to accepting that and being okay with letting go that you can't control everything.

And I think for me, the roles that I have got. The hand of the Lord was so clear and so obvious in me participating in those films that I just have to accept that the hand of the Lord is there just as much when I don't get the role. Especially for something like the Savior. I mean, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of memorizing and choicing, but there is a lot of prayer and there's fasting and there's spiritual preparation that goes into a, to a role like that.

Right. And there's, there's writing my testimony and submitting it to church committees and, and being worthy and all of this spiritual work, let alone the acting work. And so there's just this element of, you know, heavenly father, if, if it's your will that I get to. Portray this part. I hope that I can bring honor to it and if not then, then I'll trust that there's something else for me.

[00:20:54] Morgan Jones Pearson: I wanna go back to, you mentioned having to memorize scriptures, and I understand that when you were in high school at Davis High School, which I was like, of course you went to Davis High School. Davis has like the best place. But you employed an interesting technique for memorization, and when I was listening to you talk about memorizing like.

Pages of scripture. I was like, that had to be helpful. How did learning to like put in the preparation for a role and learning to memorize things? Uh, and you can tell listeners how you, you memorized, but how have you seen like that preparation come into play the longer that you've been acting?

[00:21:41] Paul Wuthrich: Yeah, so.

That's always the trick, right? How do you memorize the lines? And, and film is nice because you don't have to memorize everything all at once. You can just memorize a scene or what you're shooting for the day and then kind of forget it. But when you do plays, you, you have to memorize the whole thing. And so when I was in high school as a junior, I got to play Macbeth in Macbeth, um, which is a little crazy that we did that as a high school.

But so I remember coming up on the deadline and I had to have the first three full acts memorized and. And so I just, this school got out at like 1:00 PM it was early out, and we, and I had to have it memorized by 7:00 PM and so for six hours I just stayed at school and memorized. And the way that it helps me memorize, uh, scripts and scripture or whatever it is, is that I will remove all of the punctuation.

We have a tendency to read to punctuation, commas, and periods. And, and, and that's how we, you know, form the rhythms in our head. But when you're memorizing something and you want it to stick, you have to associate meaning, especially if it's something long where you have to connect multiple thoughts. So you have to find a bridge from thought to thought.

You have to understand why one thought leads into another thought because then as you're going through a, delivering the dialogue as if. You're delivering it for the first time. There is a natural progression from thought to thought, right? It can't come off as if you've just memorized it and you're reciting something.

It has to come off as original. And so if you can assign thoughts and I, you know, link them, then that helps me. And so I will, I will write everything down with. No punctuation, or I'll type it all out with no punctuation and then I will go back and I will just make tick marks every time for me. There is a thought that I need to connect to another thought.

And so it's actually, uh, it's actually interesting, you know, if we think of the Book of Mormon, for example, it's broken down into verses, but the first publication of the Book of Mormon didn't have verses. So I, when I was back east, I picked up a, a replica of one of the old book of Mormons and I read it in its original form and I was in it.

It was interesting 'cause as I'm reading, you have large paragraphs, it may be six or seven verses that are all in one paragraph and you start to kind of associate different. Thoughts with different thoughts, whereas if you're reading them in verse form, you're initially gonna have mental breaks if, does that make sense?

Totally. So, so yeah, if, if anybody, I would encourage whether you're memorizing or not, you know, try get one of those old book of Mormons and, and just try it. It's, it's interesting what will, we'll jump out at you and stick out to you. Um, but then if you know someone is struggling with memorizing, writing it down helps and then writing it down with no punctuation, and then that helps you.

Form the meaning yourself.

[00:24:40] Morgan Jones Pearson: I don't know that I've ever read it without the verses, but I have read it where it's not broken up into chapters, but instead like by event. And I was amazed by how much that changed the experience of reading. Um, so I, I will have to do that. That's a good, that's a good suggestion.

So having played these roles that are real people, I think that it's tricky. It would be tricky for me to play anybody, but it would be more intimidating and more daunting to play a role that is a real person rather than a fictional character. I imagine you've done both, so how do those two, how does how you approach those two things differ?

[00:25:26] Paul Wuthrich: I actually love playing a real character. Well, I. There's pros and cons to both when, when it's just a character that's fictional, you get to create so much on your own, right? When you are portraying somebody that actually lived, there is definitely an added weight that comes with that. But it's, and it's an exciting thing for me, uh, you know, Joseph Smith, for example, obviously there's so much history and I got, you know, I had spent all this time studying him already, but roles like elder Siebold and escape from Germany, for example.

I remember reading that story when I got the script and the first thing I said to my wife is, how have we never heard this story before? And I think a lot of people had that reaction and there wasn't a ton. Publicly available about him. TC Christensen actually gave me a copy. It was about 15 pages of an interview that he did telling his story, and so I got to go through and I actually, it's in my script.

I printed it and bound it with my script, and so I got to go through and, and find subtle details and things that he said that I could resonate with. One of the. Key parts to portraying somebody like Elder Siebold or Joseph Smith or in this upcoming film I get to play Alma Richards is getting past what I consider the honeymoon phase.

And that is the phase where I just want to, I want them to be awesome, you know, I, I want them no flaws. Totally. No flaws. Exactly. Exactly. And, and. You know, playing Joseph Smith, uh, Oliver Cowdry, the actor and the actor who played David Whitmer. They were non-members of the church, which surprised some people.

But as a member of the church, it was so refreshing because they didn't have any preconceived notions about, I'm playing a, a figure in church history. Right? They just approached it as an actor, and for me to do Joseph Smith justice, I had to get past that idea of, oh, I'm, I'm gonna portray him. He's so perfect.

And even for Elder Siebold, I remember reading that script and kind of having a hard time with it at the beginning. 'cause he wants to go home. And I was telling my wife and she said, you know, is he a good missionary? I said, yeah, he's a great missionary. I mean, look what he did. Uh, but I was talking to, just to TC about it and I said, I don't wanna come off, uh, you know, with a chip on my shoulder.

I said, well, absolutely you have a chip on your shoulder. And he said, because that's what makes the story mean something. Right. And I, I love that. And you really do have to get out of this, this mentality that, yeah, you want to do the person. Honor is my goal, and I've come to realize that in order to do that, portraying them with all of their flaws is the most honorable way you can do it.

Right. Joseph Smith was not an incredible person because he didn't have flaws. He was an incredible person that, because with all of his flaws, he still did what he did. Elder Seabold was the same way. It would've meant nothing if at the end when all the missionaries were leaving, he turned back and said, Hey, I'm going back in if, if you never wanted to go home in the first place.

Right? What makes their sacrifice. Worth it. What makes the story worth it is that despite their weakness, despite their flaws, despite their cockiness or whatever it may be, they still accomplish what the Lord wants them to accomplish. And so as when I can learn to embrace those things in an honest way, and, and, you know, I was worried with Elder Siebel.

I was like, I don't want people to not like me right off the bat because then they won't, they don't, they won't root for the character, the rest, the rest of the film. But if you do it, honestly, people can resonate with that. They connect with those human flaws and tendencies, right? And, and then they connect with the journey and, and I.

The benefit then too, is that me as an actor, I get to pull something from every character into my personal life and I get to take something away from every role that I've played. And the fact that it was a real person makes me think, okay, I can live my life a little bit differently now. I.

[00:29:48] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I think too, you know, it, it's funny as you're talking about him wanting to go home.

My, my dad was very, very homesick on his mission and he often reminds us that he wanted to go home and that there was, he had a companion that like changed his life and. And he stayed and, and his mission means everything to him. Like it is like the thing on which everything else hinged. And so I think there's a lot of people that resonate with those very human characteristics, where it's like that only endears them.

Further because it's like, oh, that person is, is like me. I, I wonder, Paul, what did you, what do you feel like you've learned about church history through the roles that you've played that maybe you wouldn't have known otherwise? And I, and by, by that I mean not just like, not just that you now know about Elder Seabold because.

There's this movie and you were in it, but what do you feel like you uniquely learned as the actor playing these roles or in these films?

[00:31:07] Paul Wuthrich: Yeah, the, so I've, I think every project has given me a unique takeaway. I talked a little bit about six days in August. I think the main thing that I took with me from that was, um, like I said.

That thought of living a consecrated life. Uh, for witnesses, one of the things I did was I wrote down how old Joseph Smith was In every scene as I'd look up a scene, I would study the backstory and I'd look at the year and I'd write his age. And as I'm going through the script, and I'm writing down this timeline with his age, I'm writing 26, 27, 29, 28, and I was 27 when we filmed that movie.

And for the first time in my life I thought, oh my goodness, this man had so much weight on him. From such an early age, I could not imagine being 27 the age I was trying to be a father, losing my newborn children. Being responsible for thousands of saints that are flocking in all looking to you for leadership and guidance and, and probably too much so right, where they just think everything hinges on what you say and, and your financial distress.

And there's aposty and you know, everything that went on in Kirtland and he's 27, 28. I mean, that is. It's just crazy to me that he went through that and from the first time he walked into that grove at 14, he was so much alone. You know, and, and so for me that was something that really registered was how much grace ought to be given to these men, um, be it Joseph or Oliver or Martin Harris, because we just can't fathom.

The things that they endured and took on. And for Elder Siebold, there was this moment where I got to meet his family. Um, you know, a lot of the background actors were family members and one of the, of all of the missionaries, and on one day his son was on set and. I just said, Hey man, was it so cool growing up, hearing all these stories about your dad and how incredible?

And he just said, you know, I really didn't hear a whole lot. You know, I said, may I think maybe my older siblings more so, but he, he didn't really talk about it that much. And he said, it wasn't till later in my life that I was reading this church publication. I came across this story that it really struck me, uh, just what an impact, what my dad did, had.

And I was blown away, and I just realized in a world where everything has to be publicized and we can't, you know, we can't eat our lunch without taking a picture of it and posting it on social media, right? It's like we just, we just constantly have this need for validation and anything you do and, and yet here was this young kid.

Spent five days hungry riding trains, finding these missionaries, getting them out all by himself. And then he got home and he just went on with his life. And I thought, how many people are like this out there? I mean, it took 80 years for that story to be told. And if, and if she hadn't written that book, Terry Montague hadn't done those interviews, we would never know.

I've met one family of all these missionaries that said they grew up really hearing the stories, but if it wasn't for her that made him sit down and tell the story, we would have no idea. And how many people are there out there just quietly sacrificing, doing the Lord's work with, with no attention and no accolade, but they're just doing it because God wants them to do it.

And they know it's the right thing to do, and I just, it hit me and I thought, you know what? Like that's the type of person that I wanna be.

[00:35:03] Morgan Jones Pearson: Uh, I totally agree with what you just said, and that's the reason that I always say, people are like, do you ever worry about running out of stories for this podcast?

And I'm like, Nope. Because there are millions of members of the church and guaranteed every one of them has a story. Yes. If pressed. Um, and I love that. I love the idea that everybody has a story to share and. I love that many of them will never get shared. Um, I don't love that they'll never get shared, but I love that so many people don't boast about what their story is.

Yep. Um, and I wanna go back really quickly before we get to our last question and comment on what you said about Joseph Smith's age. That is the part of Sister Freeman's general conference talk that, uh, has like resounded in my head over and over again when she is talking about, uh, Emma Smith and Emma Smith looking out the window.

And then she says in July of 1830, Emma was 26 years old, and then Emily. Sorry. Sister Freeman says she was so young, and I have thought about that so many times because I'm like, I am gonna be 36 years old this summer, and that means that Emma Smith was 10 years younger than me. And I think sometimes we don't think about that enough.

We don't think about how young they were and what they shouldered at such a young age and all the things that they had been through by the time they were our age. Oh, yeah. Um, and, and I, I think that we would give all of them a little bit more grace for some of their more human moments if we were to remember that.

'cause it'd just be like they're young, they're growing up, you know? But instead we hold them to this like, incredibly high standard of perfection. We, we keep them in that honeymoon phase, like you said. Paul, this has been so fun. It's been so fun to talk to you and learn from you. My last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

[00:37:10] Paul Wuthrich: What a great question. You know, for. I have really thought about this a lot, not just for this, but over the years, you know, what, what does, what does it mean for me to be in the gospel and what should it mean? And, you know, as, as an artist, as somebody who is inclined to the arts, there is something about artists, I guess you could say.

I think it's true with any industry, but, but maybe more so with artists where it, it feels. Much like a calling because it's, it's just something in you that, that resonates and it feels like such an integral part of who you are. Whether you're a musician or an actor or a painter, what, whatever it is, there's such this need for that expression and it feels so deep seated and rooted in your being that it can become such an identifying, uh, piece of who you are.

And I used to think that that being an actor was what I was supposed to do. I thought, you know, God gave me these talents. I wanna use them for good. I am an actor. You know, that's, that's who I am. And I am not a full-time actor. I, I have a day job. And, um. I don't, I'm not pursuing acting as a career. I'm very blessed that I don't need to, but I still get to step away and do projects like this, which I understand is, is incredibly rare.

But I've found over the years that there's so many fulfilling things in my life, and that if I can bump that down to where it belongs. So there's a talk by President Nelson where he, he says, who am I? What do I identify as? First I identify as

a son of God and a disciple of Jesus Christ, and then I'm a husband and a father, and then I'm a prophet, and then I'm a heart surgeon, right? He kind of goes through his priority list and you would think, man, president Nelson, it's like first and foremost, you're the prophet. Nope. And I found that for me.

First and foremost, I am a son of God. Then I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ and member of his church, and then I am a husband. And I have found so much joy in being a husband and having a wife that is willing to support me when I have to go and spend three weeks filming a movie. And then I'm a father to my little boy and my little girl.

And I, I just cannot express how much joy I get from being a dad. And then I, you know, am a real estate manager. I have a full-time career that I enjoy and I find passion in, and then I'm an actor. And as tempting as it can be to rearrange those when it may be convenient, uh, I have found that for me to be all in means living my life in that order.

And if we can keep that straight, you know, young people will say, oh, what, you know, what's ad advice you'd give for somebody getting into acting? And I would say, know who you are. Get those things straight first. Then everything else just kind of falls into place and you don't have to sell your soul for the industry or whatever it may be.

But for me to be all in means that as much as I can, I try to live with those priorities straight, because that allows me hopefully to live in such a way that at the end of my life I can look back and say that I lived a consecrated life.

[00:41:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: So, so well said. I that talk by President Nelson is one of my all time favorites and I think it has the ability to.

Be more, well, I shouldn't say more. I think that talk is transformative when put into action. And so thank you so much for, for bringing that up and for such a great interview. Thank you very, very much Paul.

[00:41:25] Paul Wuthrich: Thank you for having me. It's been great.

[00:41:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: We are so grateful to Paul Wuthrich for joining us on this week's episode. Be sure to check out Raising the Bar, which opens in theaters this week and tells the story of Utah's first ever Olympian. Alma Richards, big thanks to Derrick Campbell of Mix at six studios for his help with this episode, and thank you so much for listening.

We'll look forward to being with you again next week.