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[00:00:00] In 2023, Sarah Sun Kanell, the daughter of Chinese immigrants became the first woman of color to win Miss Utah. She told the church news for this to come to fruition was a really big deal because I feel the responsibility to honor the sacrifices of my parents, my ancestors, and all other immigrants who.

Feel like these dreams are just too far out of reach. I know that with God, anything is possible and I'm grateful for the people in my life who have helped me become a living testament of that end quote. You'll see throughout our interview that this is not a platitude, but instead something that guides the way Sarah lives her entire life.

Sarah Sun Kanell is the current BYU student body president. She is a proud Utah who in her role as Miss Utah, visited nearly every county in the state. She joined the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints at 17 and attended Cornell prior to serving a mission at the Mormon Battalion historic site, and in the Riverside California missions.

Speaking Mandarin Chinese. She has learned to play 11 instruments and has toured the world as a piano soloist and with the BYU young ambassadors.

This is All In an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am. Honored to have Sarah Sun Kanell on the line with me today. Sarah, welcome. Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be on the line with you, Ms. Morgan Pearson.

Well, I am. I should tell people this crazy story because I feel like people will appreciate how wild this was. Mm-hmm. Sarah and I were just. Uh, revisiting the fact that when I spoke recently at BYU Hawaii, I quoted Sarah and I had her quote in my talk, and I had planned for weeks. I thought, I've got her number, I had gotten it from a friend, and I'm gonna text her and give her a heads up that I'm gonna be using this quote, and I never did.

And then I stand up to give my talk and I knew that there were some, some people visiting BYU Hawaii that are people that have like influence within the church. And so I am standing up there and all of a sudden I. The thought goes through my mind. I bet you Sarah Sun Canal, who I'm about to quote is here.

And then as soon as my talk was over, Sarah comes up to me and is like, I'm Sarah Sun Canal. And I was like, what in the world is going on? Like this is nuts. And that's how we met. Yeah, I, to this day, it's still one of the craziest things that's maybe ever happened to me, ever. Well, your quote made my talk and I am so grateful for your wisdom because you said it so much better than I ever could.

But you, you said exactly what I would've wanted to say, so bless you for that. And I am so excited to have the chance to talk today. I listened to your podcast interview with my good friend Lizzie Jensen, and anybody that hasn't listened to that should go listen. But I wanna kind of build off of that interview by just taking advantage of the fact that Lizzie already did part one, and I wanted to ask you.

You were raised by a mother who sounds absolutely incredible, who immigrated from China, and you talked about how she taught you a lot about pursuing dreams, and I wondered if you could tell listeners not only about your mom, but about the family that you come from and why your heritage, because it's very clear.

I listened to you on several things. It's very clear that your heritage. Is something that you value and cherish and you want to represent your family well, which I think is so beautiful, but why is that so important to you? That's a beautiful question. I grew up seeing my parents sacrifice so much, and what was amazing to me about my parents is no, no matter how poorly they were treated or how hard they were working, they always did so with joy and with gratitude.

And my mother in particular is unlike anybody I've ever met. She is so full of light and goodness. I've never heard her complain really about anything she has experienced. Trials that I can't even wrap my head around and yet always ends up seeing the blessing in it. And I think what it comes down to is she's so.

In tune with how God sees her. I've never heard her speak poorly about herself, and I was actually reflecting on that the other day because I'm in a male dominated major and I am an outspoken woman who is not shy about asking questions and about challenging my professor and just raising things that I think are important [00:05:00] and.

Yet the stereotype, especially as an Asian woman, is that I should not be that way. And I've been asking myself, why am I this way? And it's because my mom, I, I truly, truly have never heard her say anything negative about herself. She's the most humble person I know. But when it comes to body image or self-esteem, or you know, these things that a lot of women in my generation struggle with, I think a lot of it comes from how we see our role models talk about themselves and.

I just think it's amazing that because she's so in tune with how God sees her, everything about her is a blessing from him. And because of that, it's just so easy for her to lean into the blessing. It is to have a body or the blessing. It is to have opportunity. And I think that's another part of my family culture that is unique, I guess, is that we lived in a very small town in southern Utah.

And we were probably the only Chinese family in my school district. I don't have any memories of being in class with another Chinese American during pretty much my whole childhood before we moved to Salt Lake and my parents, having come from a communist country where they didn't really have access to a lot of opportunity where their agency was extremely limited, I think.

Really underscored how important it's to seize the opportunities that are in front of me. When my first piano teacher retired, my mom believed in my talent at the piano and she decided that it would be a huge waste to not have me continue to develop that talent, especially if I was passionate about it and was willing to spend so much time practicing each day.

So we started driving from Cedar City to Provo twice a month. So that's like six hours round trip to study with my piano teacher, Dr. Perry Fox. And. That really changed my life, and I think those car rides with my mom were so formative because when it's just you and your mom in like in a car, just driving down the road, you can talk about anything.

And she would talk about her hopes and her dreams and the experiences that shaped her. And I would just. Feel so uplifted and inspired by the person she was. And in those car rides, I felt like I could do anything. And it didn't matter that we were driving to Southern Utah. You know, after these lessons, I would always leave my piano lessons feeling like if I work hard, I can do anything.

And my mom is living proof of that. And how lucky am I that I get a huge head start compared to what she had. So if I don't do my part, then it's dishonoring her, you know, God. Really just doesn't make logical sense. Wow. That is So, I already feel inspired by her and I have not ridden in the car with her.

I think that's so true when you, when you do spend uninterrupted time with somebody, you get to know them on a different level. So having that ability. Even with your mom, where your mom is somebody, obviously that you know better than most people, but to be able to spend that uninterrupted time every week and to see how much she believed in you.

And I also think, going back to what you said initially. About her never talking bad about herself. That is so an exception to the rule when it comes to women, because I think we tend to be our own worst critics, and so the fact that she recognizes that being critical of herself in a way is being critical of God because God made her.

That is. That is profound. I, I love that so much. I think, you know, even just hearing you repeat that back to me, I kind of have just had a light bulb moment go off. I think the reason why she doesn't criticize herself is 'cause she just doesn't really think about herself. Hmm. Probably so. She's just so selfless.

I could spend the whole podcast talking about my mother, but maybe we should just have my mother come on an episode sometime. Seriously, seriously. I I want to, I wanna meet her. I know Lizzie said that too, but I was like, this woman is, is amazing. So before we move away from her really quickly, you mentioned that you play the piano.

I watched a video of you playing. You are incredible. Your love for music, I feel like likely stems from not only your mother's belief in you, but her love for music as well. And just so listeners, get a little taste of your mom before she ever had you. Mm-hmm. When she was, was it 13? Mm-hmm. That she found the violin in the garbage can?

Yes. Oh, sorry, I should amend. Um, she was 13 when she auditioned for music Conservatory. So violin. Years prior to that. Um, okay. So that was a [00:10:00] misspeaking on my part during Izzy, but yes, you're good, you're good. 13 when she left home. So how, how would you say that her love for music influenced your love outside of that, like, believing in you?

Because obviously that carries a lot of weight, but like, just her pure love for music, it's so funny because. I don't really think in my family we ever have talked about this idea of we love music. I mean, for my law, it really was just like, Hey, this is an opportunity for me to get out of this tiny town.

Right? It could have been anything and she would've fallen in love with it. It's like ticket out. Yeah. There. Um, Amy Chua is an author that I, I really enjoy reading her work and she wrote this article about Chinese mothers and. Part of the point she was trying to make was that the difference between Chinese parenting and Western parenting is that in Chinese families, the belief is that the parents know better than the child, and the child's natural desires are not going to be good for them, and therefore need to be overridden by the parents' will.

For example, she makes the case that nobody wants to study. For an exam. Nobody wants to practice piano. Nobody wants to do the hard work, and there's no point in trying to make those things fun because you don't. Make you, don't try to make brushing your teeth fun. It's just something you have to do if you want to be a healthy, normal person.

And I think such as the attitude with piano in my household, it's never about, oh, we love music. I'm gonna be honest, I do like music now, but I don't think I had a realization of I love music until I was a teenager. Because it was just always a part of me. It was always just wake up in the morning. You'll live your life and at some point you have to practice piano for anywhere between four to eight hours a day.

And I guess the broader principle here was my, my mom was really enforcing the idea that hard work is the key to greatness. And if you're not willing to work, then you cannot expect to be great. And you know, the fact that she would sit down with me a 4-year-old and practiced piano for two to three hours every day when I was four.

I mean, I've met 4-year-old since. And I was like, what the heck? How did she do this? So, honestly, it, it's just a huge credit to her instilling that work ethic and that drive and this idea that with high love comes high expectations, and we only meet those high expectations by working hard. Okay. I wanna dig into this for a second because I feel like what you're saying.

It makes so much sense to me and my husband, if he listens to this episode, he will be like slow clapping it up. But I feel like that's also a pretty unpopular approach in America today. It's like, don't make your kid do the hard thing. Like don't force your kid to do anything. Gentle parenting. So I'm curious your thoughts on that.

And did you always, like you said, and it makes complete sense to me, that you don't have to love playing the piano to do it, but obviously now you're choosing to continue to play the piano. So would you say that you love playing the piano now? Oh yeah, for sure. Okay. I think part of it's, we love what we love doing, what we're good at.

Yeah. Nobody's born being good at, I mean, sure we have talents, but in order to go from good to great effort always has to be part of the equation. Sarah, just out here spitting truth. I love it. I think, wait you, you brought up something that I thought was really interesting, which was this idea of like.

Gentle parenting. I think a question that I got asked all the time growing up was, do you have really strict, stereotypical Asian parents? And my instinct was always like, I dunno what you guys are talking about. My parents are so chill. Granted now that I am 24 years old and look back at my childhood, you know, maybe my mom sitting down with me to practice piano for like three, four hours every day.

Maybe that's not the epitome of what a chill parent is, but for me, I always felt like she was a chill parent because. She encouraged me to pursue things that I was passionate about. I did piano. That was like a constant throughout my whole life. Her philosophy was, you have to be good at one thing, but then aside from that, explore whatever you wanna do.

So I was in the band program. I would switch instruments every time I made first chair. So I play 11 instruments and I did musical theater. Like what stereotypically Chinese kid does. Musical theater according to Amy Chua. That is the most. According to Amy, she said, musical theater is the worst extracurricular activity you could ever put your child in.

She's like, I am not gonna [00:15:00] send my kids to. They can waste eight hours every single day in rehearsal to be tree number two. I will say that my debut role was, uh, the Yellow Brick Road in the Wizard Laws, and I was elated. I thought I had made it. I I really just ate that up. Every time they went anywhere, yellow Brick Road would pop out.

We do a little dance. Dance. And anyways, my point is you're like, that was me. Yeah. I crushed it. My mom never once was like, Sarah. Everything that I wanna do. She's like, you have the opportunity to do this, so do it. Like if you're interested in something, do it. So I did speech and debate. I just did so many things.

And I think another thing that's so awesome about my mom is she really believes in expertise and she's like, if you're gonna do something, go learn how to do it from the best. Hmm. And all these random experiences I had growing up to musical theater, voice lessons, learning all these instruments. Doing dance, like all these things.

I was like, I don't know if there's ever gonna be a time where I am going to use all of this. And then one day Miss Utah just pops into my life and I'm like, oh wow. This is an opportunity where I am going to use all of this. The stage presence, the public speaking, the performing arts talent, the commitment to community service, and it's really interesting how God prepares us.

To fulfill whatever he has in store for us before we even really know what he's up to or what he's doing. I forgot my initial point I was addressing, but I'm gonna give the wheel back to you. No, I, I love that. And I love too that your mom didn't just try to have kids who did these things, like she did them herself.

You talked about how your mom has how many master's degrees. At least two I think. Okay. Wait. She's a master in public administration, which I helped her with in elementary school. She has a master's in music and at some point she was pursuing a master's in language pedagogy, but I don't, I, I stopped keeping track at some point.

So she may or may not have completed that degree. I dunno. And then she also has a PhD. Yeah. So she is not messing around in her own life either. And I want to, I wanna jump to, your mom was pursuing a master's degree at the University of Utah when you were in high school, is that right? A PhD. A PhD. Okay.

And um, you lived in University of Utah student housing Yes. In high school, yes. Which had to be a wild experience. Well, I don't know. What do you mean by that, Morgan? Was that like, was that, did, did it feel normal that you were like living in student housing in high school or what was that like? I don't know.

I think I've never really felt normal. I've just always felt like a big old weirdo, like, so maybe yes, it's, I recognize that it is an unconventional living situation, but, but you thrived. I guess so, and I think that's just, once again, my mom's perspective. Like she wasn't, like I am in my late fifties living in an apartment in student housing, taking care of two kids.

Like, well, she's like, how awesome is it that we get to pay student rates on an apartment in downtown Salt Lake? Like, oh my gosh, she, so, I dunno. It was just, I guess it was, I mean, I was just excited because after Mutual of Salt Lake, I got to go to a high school where they had an international baccalaureate program.

My peers, some of them were Asian, which is a big deal for me, and everybody was just so high achieving. I was like, wow, if my goal was to go to an Ivy League school, going to Skyline is what's going to make that achievable a possibility. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So it was while you were there that you joined the church?

Yes. And I am so curious about this, partially because I lived, so when I was single. Mm-hmm. Also in an unconventional living situation, I lived in a basement apartment. The next ward over from Cape Holbrook. Oh, get out. Yeah, so I lived, I was basically, for years people had no idea that I was there. 'cause I was in the singles ward, but mm-hmm I lived there as a basement dweller and I loved the people over in that area.

I served with some of them in the YSA stake. And so I'm so curious about how you came in contact with the church. Obviously it's because people around you were members, but tell me a little bit about kind of how you ended up learning more and your decision to join the church. Being in that ward was so impactful to me because in this conversation around representation, we can't be what we can't see.

And growing up I didn't really know what I wanted to be. I didn't really feel like I fit in. But touching back on the [00:20:00] importance of hard work, one thing that I knew for sure is I wanted to be great, and I didn't really know what that meant or what that looked like, but then I moved into this ward and immediately that vision clarified because the people in that ward were truly, truly, truly phenomenal in every possible way.

They were all highly educated, highly accomplished in their careers, were making a difference in the world every day. But beyond that, they were so kind and they loved so deeply, and the conversations I had with them made me see, feel so seen and heard. It expanded my view of the world. They were intellectually engaging.

They pushed me to think. Harder about things that I'd never thought about before. Even outside of this religious exploration. They were just wonderful, wonderful people. And I think because of the effort that they put into developing their skills and talents, I feel like they were able to minister to me in a way that I'd never experienced.

And this idea of Christlike love came into clarity as I got to know these amazing people in my ward, my bishop and his family. We're so wildly influential, and he was actually the son of a family friend that we had in Cedar City. So I was in the Yale Crest Ward, not because my, you know, student housing apartment was in their boundaries, but because, um.

Bishop Levit was the bishop of this ward in the Bonneville stake, and they took me in and my ward mission leader, Matt ac, um, and his wife Jen, and these two senior missionaries, Barbara and Nevin Madson, and my young women's leader, Caitlin, and obviously Kate. Everybody around me was somebody that I looked at and was just in awe of not only what they had accomplished, but who they were.

And I thought to myself. If this is what living the gospel of Jesus Christ looks like, then this is what I wanna be part of, because I want to have the ability to love as well as they do, and to see people as well as they see people, and to ask questions and have conversations in the way that they do.

And it really clarified for me that the reason why we pursue education and the reason why we develop our talents isn't necessarily so that people can look at us and think, wow, they're so awesome. But because it just becomes a phenomenal tool in your tool belt to serve other people and to bring them to Christ.

And I am a firsthand witness of the power of living the gospel and being yourself and investing in. Becoming better, and I know that it's because all of those individuals in the All Crest Second Ward were willing to do so. Them reaching out to me made an indelible mark on my idea of who I wanted to be and what being great really means.

There's something that you said that I wanna hone in on. The idea that you saw these people and thought, if that is what it looks like to live the gospel of Jesus Christ, then. I want to be a part of that. I think that if every person could have that experience with members of the church, and unfortunately that's just not the case.

I think that there are many people who have less than ideal experiences with members of the church, but if we could all aim to be the kind of people that people like you who are. Such an asset to the church and everybody is an asset to the church, right? Everybody has something to bring to the table.

But if, if we could be the kind of people that people look at and say, if that's what it means to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latter a Saints like I wanna be that so many PE more people, I think would be interested in the church, but that has to start with each one of us. It doesn't start because.

'cause of a perfect group of people. It's just people trying to be what a disciple of Jesus Christ is, if that makes any sense at all. Oh, absolutely. I think what was so special about my ward is that everybody was so different and there was just so much love that you could feel when you walked into that chapel.

I.

It was so special to see the way that they loved and treated each other and it, they loved each other, not because they were similar per se, but because I think everybody in their cumulative experience had gone through enough and seen enough to understand that life is hard and there's no greater joy than making it just a little bit less hard for someone else, and they were [00:25:00] and willing to do that.

I also feel like everybody felt very comfortable being themself, like Kate. Um, I don't wanna tell Kate's story 'cause I'm not Kate or a family member of Kate, but she, I never, every interaction I had was so, was so wonderful and her husband Sam is, I love Sam. Oh, he's probably, to this day still the most intellectual person I've ever met and I love, I could listen to him monologue all day.

He wrote a book, where are the Soul hungers? Where are the Soul hungers? That book made such a huge impact on me and his other book, first Principles and Ordinances I believe. I don't know, it's been a while since I've revisited them, but I just loved how there was such a wide variety of beliefs and to think deeply.

About the gospel was the norm because people were just thinking deeply about everything, right? And I felt like I could ask any question, and part of the reason I ended up joining the church is because I found a community that shared my passion for asking questions and who through their diligence, were able to provide incredible answers.

That were unique to them and that drew upon scholarship from other fields of study. It's so refreshing to ask a spiritual question and then have Sam answer it drawing upon principles from mathematics or ancient Egyptian history or the Latin etymology of some random word in the Bible, and to have him all tie it together so beautifully.

It was a living, breathing embodiment of the idea that all truth is circumscribed into one great whole. And I just, I think, you know, when I, when I think about the idea of inclusion and belonging after I was crime with Utah. I was asked to speak on being Asian, to speak on all the identifiers that make me different from the status quo because I was the first Asian American, miss Utah, and oftentimes I get asked about my experience being a woman of color or my experience fitting in a bucket that society is labeled as outside of the status quo.

Mm-hmm.

I never quite know how to feel about those engagements because to me, belonging and inclusion goes so much deeper than fulfilling racial or gender quotas. I think belonging and inclusion is about seeing people deeply. It's about understanding the way they think and. The older I get, the more I realize that not everybody understands the way other people think, which may sound so obvious, but when I grew up in an environment like the one my mom created and then the one in the Yale Crest Ward, like really getting to the root of how people think and what and why and how.

Was normal. And I don't think that way of parsing through the information we're fed is the status quo in the church broadly, and I think that's something that should change. I think the more we welcome questions and the more we welcome a diversity of perspectives, the more clear the truths we cherish come into light.

More clearly. I think that that is spot on and I think that there's a willingness that's required to see someone deeply, like you said, and to understand where someone's coming from and the way that they think. That is almost. To me, that's like part of the baptismal covenant, right? Yeah. It means that in order to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and to take his name upon us and to mourn with those that mourn and comfort, those that stand in need of comfort, we have to be willing.

I. To try to see another person's perspective, to understand why they're mourning or why they're, why they think the way that they do or where they're coming from, and to be okay with the discomfort that sometimes comes in when somebody thinks different than we do. I love that you feel like you experienced that.

Kind of belonging in that ward. I'm curious, [00:30:00] because that was where you joined the church. Has it been hard at times to be in other wards where maybe that isn't the case? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I, I would think that would be difficult. Yeah, I think when, you know, the, the missionary couple that Tommy, Evan and Barbara Madson, Barbara really became one of my best friends.

Didn't matter that she was 60 years older than me. I may be overstating her age and Barbara in heaven. I'm so sorry if that's the case, Barbara in heaven. But she really was like my best friend. Like I, I would finish school and I'd just go hang out with Barbara at her house and it didn't matter what we were doing, I just loved.

Spending time with her. Um, and anytime I had a question or a challenge I was going through, she was, she was the, she was my first point of contact. And then in March of 2020 when I was getting, when everybody was getting sent home, um, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, you know, I was going to school in New York at the time, I found out that she had passed away and.

And that really shook me because I realized just how much I was dependent on her testimony and her light up until that point. And I thought to myself, no longer can I subsist on borrowed light. And if I really want to be like Barbara, then I need to know God the way that she did. I need to have a relationship with Christ like the one that she had.

And that was a huge motivator for putting in my mission papers and deciding to be a missionary. And I think, you know, through 18 months of studying one very specific book, I, I feel like I had a lot of experiences with the Lord. That did confirm to me that it wasn't just because I loved Barbara or loved my ward, that I wanted to be a part of this church, but because the church really is true and there is so much that we can do to make it better, and I know this podcast is called All In.

I think sometimes being all in is also. Being accepting of people who are sometimes all out and creating space for everybody along the spectrum of belief and conviction to just exist and come and see and come and feel of the fruits of the spirit. And, um, my mission was formative because I think throughout those 18 months I had such a clear paragon of what I was.

Aspiring toward and the little experiences that I had between my destination and my goal. They just seemed like such tender mercies and I really understood how involved the Lord is in the details of our lives. Beautifully said. I completely agree. I wanna talk a little bit, you, you got into your mission.

After your mission, Sarah, you decided to transfer from Cornell, which had been your dream. Your dream had been to attend an Ivy League school. You had put in the work to do that. You mentioned you felt like skyline. That had given you an opportunity and a possibility to go to an Ivy League school. So you put all that work in and then you end up deciding to transfer to BYU.

Can you talk to me a little bit about what went into that decision? Yeah. It's so interesting to talk about this 'cause I wish I could wrap it up in a beautiful narrative and just mic drop. But the honest truth is that. I just felt the spirit calling me to BYU. And when you're spending all day telling people to listen to the spirit, and when you're inviting people to make a decision that would totally change their life, that would potentially force them to leave behind their livelihood or their family or their community, like I started thinking seriously about what are the promptings from the spirit that I get, that I just routinely ignore because they don't seem feasible or they don't seem in alignment with.

My goals and I just like, every time I would play the piano on my mission, I would just feel this overwhelming feeling that like I needed to keep doing this. I needed to go to BYU and make piano a part of my life again. At that point, I kind of took a step away from piano after I moved to Salt Lake. So the last two years of high school, I piano stopped being my main activity, and I don't think music was really.

A big part of my identity anymore at that point, but I just kept feeling this pull to go to BYU and to study [00:35:00] music, and I really can't tell you why I felt those things. All I can say is that I trusted that he had a plan for me. You know, I, I think about the story of Peter and Christ asking him to leave behind his nets and leave behind everything that.

He knew and loved to come and follow him, and that I think about who Peter became, and something I thought about a lot during my mission was this first indoc and covenants about, many are called, but few are chosen. And the first time I read that, I remember being kind of upset 'cause I'm like, I'm never chosened.

Like nobody chooses me for anything. I, you know, went through high school, um, very rarely ever got asked to a dance. Every time I liked a boy. She picked some really cute blonde girl over me and I was like, just one more thing that. I can't be chosen for. And then I realized that that's not what being chosen in the eyes of the Lord is.

It's, you know, we're chosen when we choose him. And well, if I am willing to choose him, then I think he can turn me into something better than what I can even imagine right now, and what better thing is there to be than his? So I just knew that I wanted to follow him, and I just had a very clear vision.

In my heart that if I were to faithfully act on this prompting that he would make it up to me. And he gave me some like little hints too. He's like, Hey, if you wanna go BYU I'm gonna make sure that you, um, make it onto the BYU ambassadors. I'm gonna make sure that you're Miss Utah and that you end up being student body president.

I was like, okay. Wow. Those things all seem really cool, but. This just feels like a strange experience. Like it just feels like a weird bargain and I didn't wanna feel like I was transferring to university because I valued those things and that God had promised them to me and that if I would just transfer my life would be awesome.

In the end, like it. It kind of just felt like he was saying, Hey, if you're willing to transfer, I have a very specific mission for you and you will learn things about yourself and you'll be prepared in the serve. You'll be prepared to serve in a way that I know that you really want to. So I was like, okay, cool.

Let's give this a try. And I just made the jump and I remember the first few months, it was so fun, and I loved, like, you know, the whole Provo like. Oh, let's go play card games at this random person's house and the whole like, oh, let's go on a date with a different boy every single day. And like, it was fun.

And after a few months of this, I was like, what am I doing? Like this is, am I just gonna exist to have fun all day? No, this is like so against everything that I am and stand for. I did kind of start to have an existential spiral. I was like. Who am I? What am I doing with my life? Like I'm studying music, but in my head, I still wanted to be a management consultant or go to law school, like I studied music, but I, at that point still didn't have any intention of actually pursuing music.

God bless my piano professor, who was so patient with me because I'd come into my piano since he's like, Sarah, did you even practice this week? I was like, no. And he is like, you know, you're supposed to practice like 30 hours a week. Right? I was like, this is two credit class. Anyways. So needless to say, I did have to, like, there were many moments during, you know, the year, like 2022 to 23, like my first year of, there are many moments where I kind of just really didn't know what I was doing, but then whenever I felt like I was hitting a new low, um, there would always be that reminder of, Hey, I have a plan for you.

I have a mission for you, and you kind of have to experience this low before you can make it to the high and understand. Just how in my hands you are. And I think right now, now that I'm almost done with college, I look back and I think to myself, I am headed into the same job I would've had, had I stayed at Cornell, except for now I have a husband whom I love with my whole heart and respected look up to.

So what I love my husband so much, he's just so awesome and I got to spend such cherished time with my family and form friendships that I value so much. And I think I wouldn't trade any of this for like a Ivy League diploma. Nothing compares to the joy of being with the people that you love. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Morgan, back to you. You're, you're so great. I am loving this so much. I wanna ask you one more question before I get to our last question, which you kind of already answered. And I love what you said about. In many ways, being all in includes loving those and, and being there for [00:40:00] those who are all out.

I think that that is, that's a big part of it. Um, but I wanted to ask you. I imagine that there are likely people that are listening to this podcast, and it may be people who are investigating or interested in the church. Um, it also could be somebody that is a member of the church, but trying to figure out whether it's like worth it for them.

And as somebody that joined the church as a teenager and then was new to the church as a young adult, I wondered what would you say to someone kind of in that phase of life that is unsure about the church and whether it's worth it to them has, how has the gospel impacted your life? That's a big question.

I recognize that. Yeah. Well, I love this talk by Sherry that talks about how we were born to lead. We were born for glory. We were born to lead, and we are on earth right now to make a difference. I know that there's so many things about the church that people are unhappy with, and I just really, really want to validate the concerns that people have and the experiences that people have that have driven them away.

But whenever I think to myself, is this worth it? I think of all those experiences I've had where God has told me I need you. I know you need me. Obviously you need me. Well, I have things I want you to do, and if you stick around and you do them, then you can come back to me really knowing that you helped all these people you love.

Make it back with you. And I think something that is a. Important value of mine is leadership. I think leadership happens in a lot of ways, and I saw a work of art at the Compass Gallery in Provo yesterday that really touched me. It's called UN Historic Acts, and it just depicts a woman sitting in sacrament meeting.

I. It is set against to gray background. I think if you were to walk past it, you'd think, oh, what an unremarkable scene. And in a lot of ways that was the point of the artist is that it's in the un historic A, it's in the unremarkable moments where we have faith, where we love, where we are willing to do hard things, quietly, invisibly and unrecognized by the world.

We really are leading and that is the way the Savior leads. And I really think for anybody who is questioning whether or not the church is worth it, if you ask God what he wants you to do. I feel confident that there is a role he wants you to play in building his kingdom, in changing the things that need to be changed in empowering the people who need to be empowered and by leading in the way that Christ led with patience, with vision, knowing that.

The impact he had may not be quantifiable and it may not even be visible during his lifetime or millennia after his lifetime, but that it was still just as important as the things that you can measure and see and touch. I think that when we are driven by a mission or a purpose, when we understand how God feels about us.

And when we understand still how much work needs to be done when it comes to gathering Israel and preparing the world for the second coming of the Lord. It's such an exhilarating thing to be a part of, and I just have had so many moments where I've talked to people and just I have felt how deeply the Lord loved them and hoped that they would.

Come and be a part of the gathering and to reap the blessings thereof. There are so many blessings. There is so much happiness and joy to be found with having a relationship with a savior, and I know that the church of Jesus Christ, latter Saints has helped me understand the nature of the Savior better than any other faith tradition that I have tried.

It has revealed. Restored truth to me about pre mortality, about post mortality, about the nature of God in Christ. That has completely transformed the way I see life and why we are here. And the doctrine of Christ is just so good and pure. But [00:45:00] more than that, it's by following the doctrine, it's by putting in the work.

We really can understand how he feels about us. I think a relationship doesn't happen without work, and I see living the gospel as the requisite work. Kind of tying it back to the first thing that we talked about in order to reap the blessing of having a very intimate and meaningful relationship with our savior.

I think that what you said just now where you said, going back to that idea of work, I think sometimes that is the thing that is hard is we want, in the Google world that we live in, we want instantaneous answers. We want to know black and white, and. That is just not the way that God works. I think that we worship a God who says, like, study it out in your mind.

Um, seek and you shall find. You know, and that means that we have to put in work. It's not gonna come instantaneously. And so I think that what you just said is. Profound because anything worth doing and investing in is gonna require work. And so if you wanna have a relationship with God, if you want to come to know Jesus Christ and to become like him, you're gonna have to put in work.

Sarah, my last question for you is the question that we ask at the end of every episode of this podcast, and like I said, I feel like you already kind of answered it, but you may have other thoughts. So what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Hmm. I think being all in is understanding that you can start over as many times as you need to because as I have stepped up to be Miss Utah or the Student Body President, I have felt so heavily the mantle of responsibility, of serving people, of utilizing every moment to represent the Lord, to represent my family, and to use this opportunity to do good.

And there are times where when I fall short, I think to myself. Everybody knows that I'm a fraud. Everybody thinks I'm a hypocrite. I'm a horrible person, and I'm doing a horrible job. And when I get stuck in that way of thinking, I would say that that is a symptom of me being all in, is thinking that there's no room to make mistakes.

But what's so amazing about this gospel is that what being all in means is that we have full access to the atonement of Jesus Christ and that as we fall short or make mistakes. It doesn't matter to him if we weren't a hundred percent perfect in the calling that he gave us. What matters to him is that you're trying and that you are interested in continuing to have a relationship with him.

I think some of the most profound spiritual experiences I've had are when I have been so, um, overwhelmed with. Guilt about something that I didn't do perfectly. Maybe I didn't do a good job at reaching out to these people who needed me, or maybe I misspoke at this speaking engagement. And I'm worried about the testimonies of the young women who listen to me that day.

You know, when I, when I think about, uh, all the things that I don't, that I didn't do, I just feel so naked and exposed and I feel like it's too late for me to change because if I were to try and do better. People would just see it as an act of self preservation, an act of trying to maintain an image or something really superficial, um, and insignificant.

But all of those anxieties and fears go away when I. Just hand them over to God. And when I allow myself to be touched by his grace and by his love and his mercy, I think sometimes as members, we get so caught up in asking, how can we bless other people? What can we do to be his hands? What can we do? To bring other people closer to Christ, and in that sprint to help others, we forget to have moments where we allow him to transform us.

There was a period of time in my life where I was doing so many firesides and I was burying my testimony so often that I did not have the space to continue to. Develop that testimony, and by the end of my year, I felt so spiritually burnt out, and it took some time to just retreat into solitude and to reflect on the things that I had experienced and to spend time with my family and loved ones and reconsider what really matters in life.

And to remember that I too am still learning. And it was in [00:50:00] those moments of quiet reflection that the Lord would remind me. You're doing right. I do still love you, and I don't expect you to do everything and to do it all perfectly. And that is all very much a part of the point. And I, I just think we need to have more grace.

I think we're, we're in a, we're in a culture where our flaws can be magnified and oftentimes in wards or in. You know, certain communities, it seems like the gospel is just a long oppressive performance of virtue signals and saying the right things and doing the right things. And I think once we've experienced the grace of God heal us.

It becomes so exciting to give other people that same grace and to look for the best in them and to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Sarah, this has been delightful. Thank you so, so much. Thank you. You're doing great work and I can just tell you're just such a powerful leader and doer of good, and please, please keep that up. I know there are a lot of young women like myself who are looking up to you and seeing the things that you do and being inspired by that.

I think that's one more thing that I want to end on is, you know, for anybody who's listening, don't underestimate the number of people who are inspired by you and who are looking to, as an example, and.

I think, I think you have an influence that you may not recognize, but it is changing people's lives and I know because my life has been changed by so many people just simply living their life in the most authentic way that they can. So please stay keeping all in, keep remembering that we can always change.

It's never too late to try again, and that. The greatest victory has nothing to do with the result and everything to do with the input. Sarah, you're remarkable. You're a powerhouse, and I would say the same to you. Keep up. Keep up the great work. Thanks Morgan. We are so grateful to Sarah Sun Kanell for joining us on this week's episode.

Believe me when I say you do not wanna miss. Sarah's new essay in the new book Made for This available in Desert at bookstores now. Big thanks as always to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode, and thank you for spending your valuable time with us. We'll be with you again next week.