The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

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[00:00:00] Well, everyone, we are back and I couldn't be more grateful to those who have stayed with us and who have remained patient as the last three years have brought a lot of change to my life. And with that, a lot of necessary time off, I couldn't be happier though, to be back releasing new episodes. And we are so excited for you to hear the interviews to come.

I felt like this particular interview was a good one to come back. with as it represents a new phase of my life, but also provides come follow me tips while we're still kind of at the start of a new year. I love this interview and I hope you will too. Since early 2019, Katie Wade Neser has been helping parents of young children with their come follow me study.

As a young mom with two under two, I've recently discovered the beauty of what her Instagram account. Come Follow Me Toddlers has to offer as somehow her ideas and suggestions have helped me turn scripture study from a time that wasn't particularly enjoyable for any of us in my family to a special memory nearly every night.

Katie Wade Neser is a teacher, a mother of four. Four and a disciple of Jesus Christ. She began Come Follow Me Toddlers in early 2019 as a way to share ideas for implementing the Come, Follow Me Program in a home with young children.

This is All In an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson and I am honored to have Katie Wade Neser on the line with me today. Katie, welcome. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. So I have to tell listeners, Katie, before we get started, that I am inviting you onto this podcast because I've recently become a bit of a fangirl.

I so listeners know because my life has been a whirlwind the last few years that I have two babies, two under two. And our oldest is just getting to the point where I felt like we needed to do something for scripture study. We previously had been reading like a verse or two a day and she really seemed to hate it.

And so it was like, well, we probably need to do something that she actually will have fond memories of. And that's where your Instagram account has just been like a huge help. And I have felt so grateful to you. And so part of it is I'm just like other moms need to know that this is out there and can be a support and a help.

But first of all, I just have been really, really grateful. So thank you for everything that you. Oh, that, that is so kind to say. And like everything you just described is exactly what I hope that my account can be helpful for is like helping kids actually love and be interested in their gospel learning.

So that's awesome to hear. Well, I think all of us have memories of like scripture studies that went well growing up and scripture studies that didn't go as well. And I just, I think the way that you approach it is so inspired because I see in my little girl the way that she like lights up when we do one of your ideas and, and it like goes well, you know, and you can like see it for her anyway, I just, it's, it's been awesome.

So I wanted to start out. To get a little bit of background on you, Katie, and who you are and where you come from, tell me a bit about where your passion for teaching kids comes from. Yeah, so that's a, that's a good question. I mean, there's, that's something I could talk about forever. Teaching First of all, it's just like in my blood, uh, three of my four grandparents were teachers, my mom, aunts and uncles.

My mom taught middle school her whole career, which like bless her, you know, and then I myself, I'm a teacher. So I have always taught mostly freshmen writing classes. So, uh, since like 2011, I've taught like the 18 year olds. And if you ask me, that's like the funnest age group in the world to teach, but.

When I had kids, my, the thing I loved most about teaching kind of went into hyperspeed, which is like what you were just describing, your little girl lighting up like those, those light bulb moments, um, where something clicks or something suddenly becomes interesting, or you see that growth. That's what makes teaching so fulfilling, I think.

And when you Have little kids in your home, you get to have, you know, this, you get to have those moments like 20 times an hour, right? Like their whole life is light bulb moments because everything is new. Everything's exciting. And so when it comes to [00:05:00] like my passion for teaching little kids, that's That's that.

But I mean, also on a spiritual level and kind of something I'm hoping to talk a lot about today is just that I feel so strongly that little kids deserve to be taught the things of God and that they deserve to have access to Him. And it's something that I feel just so passionately about. Well, I think that you.

have been so inspired in the way that you have approached this. Um, I, I think, and I think we'll talk some more about this, Katie, but, um, I think that it's interesting as a parent, like you said, you have these moments, like teaching moments, it feels like constantly. And because of that, It feels like there's a lot of pressure.

At least I put a lot of pressure on myself where it's like I want to make sure that I Don't throw away my shot, you know So I I think that like you said if you can teach them In a way that meets them at their level, um, but also recognizes how smart they are. My mother in law always says, they're smart.

They're really smart. And I think that you have to give kids the credit that they deserve in what they are capable of learning. And I think that's, that's kind of the thing that I was saying about reading like two verses a night or whatever it was we were doing. And it felt like. We were almost acting as if she wasn't there, you know, like she's there, but she's not and this isn't really right.

Yeah, exactly. It's just to check a box for us, which that isn't. I don't think that was super advantageous. So I wondered, Katie, how did you have this idea for this Instagram account? How did it come to be? Yeah, so it's interesting that you're talking about like that pressure we feel as parents because that was kind of the origin story of Come Follow Me Toddlers.

So, I think it was, you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, 2018 October conference was when the switch to Come Follow Me, home centered, church supported was announced. Um, and I remember Like, you know, those moments in your life where you remember exactly where you were, like I can vividly picture, we had just gone through two days of watching general conference with very small children, which is an impossible task.

And it's the very last talk and president Nelson gets on, we were visiting my mother and last we're in her house and I'm like bouncing a one year old on my hip cause I'm like, Hey, I'm at least going to hear the profits where it's right. So I'm like trying to keep her entertained, my two year olds running around in circles and all of a sudden president Nelson is like, Um, we're getting rid of the third hour and like, you're going to be their main source of gospel learning.

And like, it's, it's all on you now. And I'm kind of ashamed to admit that I think I just was so overwhelmed by the weekend. And I turned to my husband and I was like, Oh, like we can't do that. Like we can't, I can't, that's not going to work for us, you know? And he was like, okay, like it's okay. Then, you know, we're just tired and like, it'll be okay.

And I was like, okay, like we'll try this. And, um, you know, we started in when everyone started in and. We did a few weeks of it and it went so poorly. Like just, I had, I just hadn't thought too hard. I mean, we've been doing these like FHE lessons that were kind of what you're describing, like we'd read a verse at them or we'd, uh, you know, attempt something and, and feel like it was useless.

And after a couple weeks, I have, and, and this, this moment is actually like really tender and special to me. But I remember I said a prayer and I was like, Heavenly Father, this is going poorly. I'm going to try again when my kids are older and they can understand it. But like me and my husband, like we'll keep studying, but like, I, it doesn't, I don't think this is the right time.

And this was like. You know, prideful me being like, mm, it's too hard. We're not going to do it. And I have never, I don't know if I've ever experienced this, like this feeling in a prayer, but I felt so clearly rebuked. Like, I almost felt like a vocal, like, no. It was like, no, this is too important. Teaching your children the gospel is, is too important, and I need you to try, and I need you to try again, and I will help you, and I will show you how.

And it was such a clear [00:10:00] answer that I was like, okay, like I was barely not prideful enough to be like, okay, like, fine, I'll try one more time. I'll do it again. You know, and something about me is I'm really externally motivated. Like if other people need me to meet a deadline or, or expect something of me, I do a lot better at it.

And I think that's something how my father knows about me. Because a couple nights later, it's funny. I was like, I had just finished talking to my husband about how I was just feeling a little overwhelmed by life. And it was one of those moments where I was like, I really need to like cut something out.

You know, like we need to rebalance the scales. Too much is going on. And then I was like, you know, saying my prayers and we were going to go to bed and I had the prompting to start. And Instagram and share ideas of how to teach little kids come follow me, which is hilarious because I was like, well, why would I do that?

It's going terribly for me. And also, I just finished saying how busy I am, but it was one of those situations where I didn't, for whatever reason, I just was like, okay, like. Okay, let's do it. And I, I told my husband like that night after I just complained to him. I was like, Hey, I think I'm just gonna like start an Instagram to like share some ideas about teaching.

Come follow me to little kids. And he was like, didn't like, okay, he's, he's the most supportive person in the world. And so he was like, I mean, you seemed like you were pretty stressed an hour ago, but okay. Okay. And so I thought I'll start this and it'll just help keep me on task. That's why I'm starting it.

And it, and it has, that's like, I often say to people, like the reason we're so consistent with, with come follow me is because, um, I, I have to, I have to do it. If I'm going to teach other people how to do it, it's really good external motivation for me. But also, um, I really believe that. My whole, I could, I could tell you so many just miraculous experiences I've had with this, with running this account and, um, this project where I really have just felt like the Lord just took really my really small and weak offering and like filled in the gaps and bless my life.

And. Hopefully helped other families. I love that so much. And I'll tell you why just Sunday night, so a couple nights ago or Saturday night, I told my husband, so we had a sick baby last week. We were running on very little sleep and I had like three different deadline things coming up that I needed to work on.

And it felt like there was no way I was going to get those things done. And I was awake in the middle of the night one night with our sick baby, and I started thinking about, in particular, I had a Sunday school lesson that I needed to teach in two days, and I started thinking, How am I going to teach this Sunday school lesson?

When am I supposed to prepare it? My brain is not working. And, In that night, two of the three things that I had been stressed out about, it was like they came to me fully formed. Hmm. And it's amazing to me how when we do give the Lord the little bit that we have to offer, and we let him know like we're willing, we're ready to show up.

And I love your story too, because I think that's. For me, at least how I know that the spirit is talking to me is when I'm like, that thought never would have come from me. So if an hour ago I was saying that I was super stressed out and then an hour later I'm ready to start an Instagram account, then that probably was not my idea.

And I'll try to follow through in it. And so I love that you. I love that you followed through on it, and I'm sure that you have seen so many miracles, and maybe we'll hear about more of that as we go through this conversation, um, whatever you feel comfortable sharing. But I wondered, you said to me that you feel strongly about teaching kids in a way that works for them.

And specifically you mentioned like kids are meant to be like wiggly and moving. So tell me a little bit about what you mean by that and why do you feel that so strongly? Yeah, um, I, like I said, I just, I really believe that the Lord cares about the learning of little children. Um, and he wants us to teach them in a way that works for them.

I had this experience when my two oldest were really little. Maybe like right after I started this, we were learning that Jesus created things, right? And so I was like, we're going to go on a walk and we got a basket out. And [00:15:00] I was like, find whatever you can find and put it in the basket. And my plan was to say like, Jesus made that thing.

And so, you know, we're going and my daughter picks up a rock and puts the rock in the basket. And I'm like, wow, look at, did Jesus make this rock? Yes, he made the rock. And then I kind of took it a little further. And I was like, and he made such good rocks. Like they're They're like strong, just like rocks need to be so that we can use them for strong things, you know.

And then my daughter, my other daughter came and put a flower in the basket. And I was like, well, did Jesus make the flower? Yes. Like he made really good flowers. Like, look how perfect and beautiful these flowers are. Right. They're, they're so such beautiful things. And as we were doing this, I'm, I'm looking at these two perfect little girls.

And I had the thought that if like the rocks and the flowers are so intentionally made, that the way my little children are is so intentional and it's so divine. I think sometimes we want little kids to have a different nature than they have. Like we want them to sit and we want them to listen. And those are good skills that they can learn as they get older, but I don't think it was an accident that.

Every child on earth is wiggly and doesn't listen all the time and, and has lots of questions and, um, learns through movement. I think that Christ created, um, children to be that way. And so instead of, I mean, we're commanded to become like little children. They're not commanded to become like us. And so I think that when we take the time, To teach them in a way that works for them in this like divine and perfect way that they were creative, that we're, we're doing Christ's work on the earth.

And what we're also doing is we're giving them. We're giving them access to a knowledge, their divine identity and their, um, the knowledge that they're loved by an all powerful God. Right. And that, that is something that everyone needs, even little children. I actually, so there's this quote. By sister, I'll probably say her name wrong, Michalene Grassley.

She was the general primary president in the 90s. And there's this quote by her that is just my favorite general conference quote of all time. And she talks about in 3 Nephi 17, when Christ is, asks for all the little children to be brought to him. And she points out that he doesn't say, and I'm, I'm just paraphrasing her quote, but he doesn't say like, Oh, You know, never mind the little children because they're not accountable yet.

So like, they don't need to come learn yet. Or, um, take the kids somewhere else because they're kind of distracting for the rest of us. Or they just, they wouldn't understand. They're not old enough to understand yet. He doesn't say any of that, right? What he does say is he asks us to gather the children and he asks us to behold them.

And I think that that is such a perfect example of how we should approach teaching children. And her quote at the end, she says, Children share with all of us the divine right to spiritual enlightenment. And I think of that quote often when it's difficult to teach my kids is that they have a divine right to Know their God and I and it's my job to learn how to give that to them.

So well said I completely agree And I think that you do such a good job on your account of doing not just giving Suggestions that are I think sometimes it's easy to find ideas for like a family home evening or something that feel like fine, but Maybe like lack a little bit of depth. And I feel like your suggestions are so they are meaningful and they are teaching important principles.

And I love how you always pull out a catchphrase for the kids to memorize or to recite. My little Emma, she can hardly talk, but I've tried to like make sure that I'm repeating things that will teach her the principle behind whatever it is that we're doing. And I think that that is really inspired. What are some simple ways that you've found that we can adjust teaching such that we're teaching kids to those strengths that you talked about?

Yeah, that's a really good question. I actually love, I love that question because I think sometimes people think like, oh, you're a teacher or you're not a teacher or you, you're good at teaching little kids and I'm not good at teaching little kids, but I think it's a skill just like anything else that, [00:20:00] um, that we can learn.

And so if you're a primary teacher and things are not going well in your classroom, there's skills that you can learn to help it go better in your classroom, right? Or if you're a parent at home and your lessons aren't going well. Happens to all of us. I'm constantly reevaluating how we should be teaching in our home.

I think there's some really practical things that we can do. So when someone comes to me and says, It's not going well. Just not working for us. My first question that I always want to ask is, are they moving their bodies? Kids learn so well through movement. That mind body connection is so strong. And sometimes we think, Oh, like that's not, that's not.

As good of learning because they were like hopping across the room instead of like sitting and listening Um, but for kids it's it's the opposite when their body is moving. They actually retain information so much better Even if it's just their hands moving, even if they're just making something out of play doh or something like that um Lots of times what i'll do is when I can tell that we're losing attention I add an action into what we're doing.

So if i'm like Did you guys know that Jesus loves all of us and everyone's feeling wiggly and wild? I'll say, okay, so can we all hug ourselves because that's and feel how it feels to be loved like Jesus loves us, right? Or can we, um, this week we were, we were talking, I can't even remember what our lesson was on this week, but I was saying the word joy a lot and my kids were going crazy.

And I was like, okay, so when I say the word joy, you got to put both arms in the air. And just that one action of like, okay, now I've got to listen and I get to do something when I hear it. And that's exciting. That movement shifts all the momentum in the lesson. Um, it's interesting. I read an article a few years back that was talking about attention spans.

So you're going to see, you'll hear all sorts of rules about attention spans. People will say things like, oh, attention spans are their age. Add to in minutes. So like they're five years old, you add to their attention span is seven minutes long, or they'll say like half their age in minutes. So like a six year old can pay attention for three minutes.

Like people love to have rules like that. But this article was saying that there's not actually research to support. any of those rules, and that in fact, it's much more simple than we make it. And the real rule is if a child thinks something is interesting, they will pay attention to it. And if they don't think it's interesting, they won't pay attention to it.

And so, I mean, if you think about that, that's so, That's so believable, right? Like my four year old can sit and watch like an hour and a half Disney movie, no problem. But then we go to sacrament meeting and sacrament meeting isn't really made for four year olds, right? And it's not that interesting to him.

And he does not last long, you know, before he's like needing something else that is interesting to him to happen. We need to pull things out of a church bag or he needs to go get a drink in the hall or whatever. And so our job then as the teachers is to ask What does my child, or the students in my class, or who, whatever, what do they find interesting?

And then how can I teach to that? So if your child really loves coloring, we're gonna add coloring. If your child really is like a high energy kid and needs a lot of movement, Um, we're going to, we're going to add hopping and jumping and climbing and we're going to teach faith by putting them on the counter and they jump into your arms and we're, you know, we're going to add the things that are interesting to them and the attention span will be there.

The third thing that I would say is like a really good shift to make in your teaching is something that I see a lot in our church. We love to teach with metaphor. We love, you know, object lessons and I mean, this is how Christ taught, right? Christ taught through parables. And so I think our natural instinct is to go there.

The hard thing is that children like, I mean, it's different for every kid, but really they say tell about age seven, they don't understand metaphor, they don't understand figurative language. And so it's not a very effective way to teach them. And in fact, if we just teach direct principles to kids, things are going to go a lot better and we'll maintain that interest because they will understand.

So an example would be sometimes like someone might say to me, well, I can't teach my four year old about the sacrament because they don't understand that Christ, you know, it's representing Christ's body. And his, and his sacrifice for us. And so they're not old enough to learn about the sacrament and they're right.

They aren't old enough to understand that the sacrament is symbolic and it's, and it's representing Christ's body and, and his [00:25:00] blood and his atonement, but they can understand that Jesus loves us. They can understand that Jesus wants to give to us. Give things to us. They know what they know what it means to give something.

And so what we do is we give them a piece of bread and that gets their hands moving, right? And they're going to rip up this piece of bread because that's really fun. That's really interesting. Kids always want to destroy things, right? And so we're going to rip up the bread. And we're going to have a picture of Jesus.

And one thing I love to do is we'll, my kids will rip up pieces of bread and we'll put it around the picture of Jesus. And so now they have a visual connection between the bread and Christ. Maybe they don't get in sacrament eating, right? Like they know they're eating bread and water. But like, because we're quiet, they might not understand it's even connected to Christ.

And then I'm going to say something like, Hey, did Jesus make bread? Did Jesus give us bread? Yes. That is so nice of Jesus. Jesus loves us. Right. Jesus gives us things to help us because he loves us. And that's something that a small child can understand. And those are the first steps to understanding the sacrament before they actually are old enough to understand the symbolism of the sacrament.

And so if you can just add, add some movement. And if you can think about what interests your child, and if you can try and teach in just direct principles instead of like figurative language or metaphor, I think those are three great ways to start shifting your lessons towards ways that kids learn versus how maybe an adult would learn something.

That was so insightful and it makes me think about there have been a few moments where I tried to teach my daughter. Something that was symbolic or the most, the hardest example is that we got her a manger scene for Christmas and trying to explain that Joseph was not Jesus's daddy. And I just backtracked.

I was like, this is, this is going terrible. Like, we gotta take some steps back. So then, now she just has referred to Joseph ever since as the daddy. Because she's very confused. So, there's that. But I, I love what you said about the sacrament because It made me think, I think sometimes by the time we get to like teenage years and youth program and we're being taught standards and things like that, if there isn't that foundation of, I know that Jesus loves me, then the other stuff doesn't.

Land as well. And it doesn't make as much sense. And so laying that foundation for children, I think is so, so critical. And the way that you described that was spot on. Katie, you, I know you get a lot of questions about logistics when it comes to come follow me and how to do it with kids. And you've shared some things about what has worked for your family and what hasn't worked.

So I wondered, What have you and your family found to be effective or what have you learned through? I'm sure you've connected with other families through your account. What have you found to be effective for other people as well? Yeah, I think this is a, this is a tough question. Like this is almost the question when it comes to making sure that you are teaching the gospel in your home is like the logistics of it.

Because I would say the majority of members of the church want to want to teach their kids. Like they want their, to teach their kids, the gospel and there's just barriers. That get in the way. Right. And some like really valid barriers, like your family's going through a really hard time or so just yesterday I posted on my account and I was asking, it helps me to get a feel for like, what are what these barriers are for people, maybe in hopes that I can like share things in a way that can help people get around those barriers.

And so I said, you know, what, what are the, what's the biggest block in you being able to teach a come follow me lesson in your home? And I gave four. Option. So it was like, you don't, um, you don't have enough time, you don't have enough energy, you, your children are uncooperative, or you have a spouse that's not supportive, which I, I think that last one can be a really difficult one for a lot of people.

Maybe they're the only, the only member of their marriage who is the only member in their marriage, or Maybe just like their spouse doesn't view it as a priority and that can be really hard for it all to be on you, but above and beyond the answer was energy, like just lacking the energy, which is so real for parents, right?

Like, [00:30:00] we're tired. We're it's hard. And so the first thing I want to say is that I think yeah. A phrase I use often is that consistency requires simplicity. So in, if you want to be consistent at something, it has to be really, really simple. And I think like the New Year's resolution principle applies here where like, if you weren't doing something on December 31st, you cannot go zero to a hundred on January 1st and expect it to stick.

Right. So the first question to ask. Is when is my family available and when are my and my kids are fed and people are calm ish, right? You've already won half the battle if like everyone's think of a time when is everyone pretty calm and fed and no one needs a nap at that moment. That's probably, that's probably a good place to start is there.

What you don't want to do is say, okay, we're not really doing anything, but we're going to wake up every day at 6am and study as a family before the day starts. Like that, I've been that person in the past for goals. Right. And it, and it doesn't last. So what you can say is, Hey, we have 12 o'clock church at like, 1030, everyone has like eaten some breakfast, you know, maybe our like youngest baby is down for a nap or something, what, you know, that feels like a pretty good time.

And you make the appointment and you keep it no matter how it looks. If you have nothing prepared, you sit down and you sing a song together. Or even last year, actually for Easter, because Easter was on the last day of the month. And I had this idea that it, because I get so many messages of people saying, we can't be consistent.

It's so hard to, to fit this in. We're tired. We, you know, all these barriers. And I thought, what if the only expectation that we had for someone who is just starting to teach the gospel in their home is that. They say Christ's name in their home every day. And that idea came to me because I was reading that verse in, I think it's second Nephi.

Now I'm not going to reference it right where it says, we talk of Christ. We preach of Christ. We rejoice in Christ. And the, we talk of Christ part really stood out to me. I was like, yeah, like followers of Christ talk about Christ. And that's not like, That's not a bad place to start. That's a really awesome place to start.

And so I made a little chart and was like, here's 30 ideas for ways you could talk about Christ every day, but like, it can be one second, it can be five minutes, but what if your only goal was I'm going to say Christ's name to my kids every single day. And if you think about that, at the end of a month, your kids have heard you talk about Jesus 30 times.

That's amazing, right? And it, and that's something you can do in the car. That's something you can do. Um, at bedtime, you know, simple things as you're pouring a glass of milk. You know what? But then when you're ready to implement more of a routine, I think keeping it as simple as possible and one and then to just making sure that it's a positive experience for your kids that we have a rule that as soon as everyone starts hating it, we're done because we just don't want them to resent that time we spend together.

Yeah, I don't think that having your kids remember scripture study as a painful experience or anything to do with, with the gospel as like, Oh, that was the thing that we dreaded. That's not the goal. Obviously. I love what you said about speaking Christ's name. And it made me think of the video that just came out yesterday from President Oaks where he talked about the, he is risen.

Yeah. And it seemed like such a simple thing. Like he said, maybe you could consider this and It almost, when my initial reaction was like, oh, wow, that was not what I was expecting for his example of a tradition, but when you're talking about little kids, like if you could teach that one phrase, then it would be super impactful.

I love those suggestions. And I do think the logistics, it's like, that is half the battle. Um, Katie, you have printables for purchase, but I also love that the majority of what you do is free and nobody is paying you to do this. So bless your soul for that. It's clearly a labor of love. And so why have you continued to do it?

You told us why you started it, but why have you continued to do it? And how have you found fulfillment or purpose? Or felt like God's love through this effort. [00:35:00] Yeah. Um, that was actually something I really wrestled with because, well, first of all, I just want to clarify that I think it's great for people to get paid for what they do, right?

Like I, I do not think this has to be 100 percent for anyone else. And that's actually kind of why I wrestled it because I'm like, wow, I really do believe in people getting paid for the work they do. And at some point it became like a large, it went from a small labor of love to kind of a large labor of I'm sure, and what happened was people started asking, like, Oh, well, could you like make something that went with that?

Or, you know, like principles and things like that. And I very transparent with this, that I'm not like an expert in any of those things, but I was like, well, if it, yeah. Ultimately, what I care about is that if there's a way that I can remove just some of those barriers for families that, you know, all those barriers we talked about, if I can make it a little bit easier, if I can take some of that prep off of parents, I'm so happy to do that.

And that is like So meaningful to me to be able to do that. I can't explain to you. Like, it feels like a privilege, um, at some level I was like, okay, well, I probably can't do like all of that, you know, for free, like if people are wanting all these things. And so, um, but I, because so much of this process for me has felt like the Lord is just using me to.

Like as a vehicle to pass these ideas along to other people, I can't tell you how many nights I have sat down and said, like, okay, because I used to just do these week by week before I started releasing months at a time. And so it would be like Friday night. I'm like, Oh, my God, I got to think of ideas for next week.

And I would be so swamped. And I would sit down, you know, I'd have like papers to grade and a screaming baby and I'd sit down and I would say, Heavenly Father, I have five hours of work to do and I only have 45 minutes to do this work. Like I, like I just need it to happen in these 45 minutes. And it, Like something you, when you talked earlier about your experience this weekend, if I've had so many experiences like that, where it just felt like how my father was just like handing me things like, all right, tell him this, right.

And this would be a good one. And because so much of that didn't feel like it was coming from me, I've never felt like I could not just pass it along to everyone else. I. I really, I feel strongly that that phrase that, you know, kids have that divine right to spiritual enlightenment. And I'm just hopeful that taking another barrier down like the cost can help more families access maybe some easy ways to teach their family.

I want to touch on something that you just, you alluded to kind of at your, the beginning of that answer that you don't feel like you're like a pro, um, at any of these things when it comes to like creating content and printables and things like that. I love that you've said that your goal is to teach children the gospel.

Your goal is not to create something that's like super beautiful. And I, as someone that is not very good at stuff like that, I appreciate that. And I think sometimes we can lose sight of the actual goal is to teach our children in our social media driven world. I just had a conversation with a friend this week who was saying.

That she had to kind of take a step back as she was preparing or helping her kids with valentine's day cards because she was like, am I like doing this for them? Or am I doing this for me? You know, and I'm sure that's something that a lot of moms think about. But why do you think that it's important to make sure that we're keeping the goal The main thing, the main thing.

Does that make sense? Right, yeah, 100%. I mean, I think about that talk by President Uchtdorf, um, when he talked about like knitting the potholders before a Relief Society lesson, where like I have a background in the arts. Like I love beautiful things. Right. And I think there is so much fulfillment in creating something beautiful, but when it comes down to it, it's that consistency requires simplicity thing.

If I were to try and make everything beautiful, I don't think it would happen for me. Right. And I'm hopeful that that mentality, I always tell my husband. We like don't clean up the background of my house before we film a video and I'm like, well, maybe someone else just needs to see a messy house today to, you know, like [00:40:00] people need to know that like you can, that like life is messy and the things we do are messy and they don't need to be perfect and if you want a lesson to happen.

It's a lot easier to grab like some like, you know, scrap pieces of paper and paper clips than to like spend this effort and time into making something that might be beautiful, but also not sustainable. I also think maybe I just like want my kids to know that. Christ like loves us and is, and is present and like the spirit is in our home in the middle of like messiness and imperfection and trying to create perfect moments all the time, maybe with like inhibit or like shape the way they view what Thoughtful learning looks like yeah, there's that you could delve into quite a deep conversation about that.

I think. Yeah. Um, I, I love what you said about not cleaning up your house in the background. I think that that is refreshing. I feel like for me, motherhood has been quite an adjustment in terms of what gospel study looks like. I think I have even you, you mentioned like teaching primary, you know, and if your, your class isn't listening, well, my husband and I were primary teachers of a.

five year old primary class right before we had our first baby. And I look, think about like, what did we try to do? And it's like, no wonder they didn't really listen to us. Like we were disasters. And so for me, like having a daughter and wanting it to actually sink in. And also recognizing that, like, my scripture study looks quite different.

I just think all of that can be a little overwhelming. And so I wondered, what would you say to a young mom, aka, what would you say to me, who might be a little hard on themselves right now about, like, giving grace in this season of life? Yeah. Oh man. First of all, it's so hard. Like you are in the thick of it.

And if like, no one has validated you today that like, good job, just like being alive and keeping all the other humans alive in your house, you're doing really good. It is such a learning curve, right? Those first few years, especially. I remember a few years back, I was reading something that was talking about how, like, we, we don't find enough moments of peace in our life in this, like, social media, chaotic world where there's always voices.

Right. In our lives and how, if we want to feel the spirit, we need to find more moments of peace. I remember my initial reaction to that was like, Oh man, like that's a bummer because I never have a moment of peace, you know, like I never have a moment of quiet. And then I took a step back and I thought like, well, wait a second.

Maybe noise and distractions are not the same thing. And I think as I think about them more, and as I thought about that more, like you can't convince me that like the noise of my children playing in my house is too distracting for the spirit, right? Like that, that, that isn't a distraction. That is just young children being young children, right?

And I, I really believe that the spirit is present even when we don't have like the stereotypical piece in our lives. But also your question made me think of a conversation I had with a friend. We were talking about the difference between like book smart and street smart, right? So like you can like be learning a lot from books, or you can learn a lot from life experiences.

And we were joking about how like the season of young kids is not our book smart season, right? Like we don't have the time to sit down and study. Like, I mean, before I had kids, right? If I almost took for granted that I could sit down and like read a whole. Conference talk start to finish my goodness, you know, um, but we don't think that like learning through experiences.

is any less good or any less effective. And so I think that's what, I think that's what it means to have little children is that your gospel learning is like street smart learning. Like you're learning through experiences and through interactions and through conversations with your kids and through the things they teach you and the things you teach them.

Even when we're missing, like we're not in that season of book learning at this moment. I don't know if that makes sense. No, it makes complete sense. And I [00:45:00] think that The beauty of teaching kids is that it's almost like you're, you yourself are starting from scratch and going back to square one and being like, okay, what is the, like, why behind all of this?

And it's kind of like what I was saying earlier about speaking his name. Like, if you don't know that Jesus loves you, then the rest that you've built on top of that lacks meaning. And I loved this, this Christmas. I've shared this before, but this Christmas meant so much more to me than I feel like it has in past years.

There have been past years that had carried with it great meaning, but this Christmas, it was like all about Jesus, because my little girl, all she knew was the baby Jesus, and it was just like constant. And so I wondered for you, Katie, you been really honest about how when you became a parent, sometimes you struggled to teach your kids because you felt like you still had questions yourself, but that teaching your kids has actually like strengthened your testimony.

So can you talk to me a little bit about what you've learned about the value of questions and then how you've seen like teaching your kids actually strengthen your testimony? Yeah. Totally. Um, I have talked about this somewhat frequently on my account that I, the way I build my faith is through questions.

And I used to kind of view that as maybe a flaw, right? Like, Oh, everyone else really seems to just like, Be good. And I'm like, well, wait a second. Like I need to, I need to like think about this more and pray about this more. And as I've gotten older and maybe, especially as I become a parent, I've started to view that as like a strength for me because I feel like it's given me an opportunity to like partner.

with God and, and like wrestle through things together. And I have felt closer to the Lord through that process, but it does become complicated when I'm like, well, I'm still trying to like, figure this out myself. And so how then do I teach it to a child? But what's been really cool and like, just a huge blessing for me with this Come Follow Me Toddlers project has been how many times I've had to sit down and say, okay, like, this topic way too big for a toddler, right?

Like they're, they're not going to get this. So I'm like, okay, so how let's break it down. Like, let's make it simpler. Okay. Let's make that even simpler. Let's make it even simpler. And every time, every single time at the gospel principles at its simplest form. Come down to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is our savior.

Jesus Christ loves me. Jesus Christ atone for me. Jesus Christ loves everyone on earth. Like that is, those are the core things at every gospel principle we study. And for me and for my, my, you know, questioning spirit, that has been so reassuring to me. It's built my faith so much that at the You know, I have all these things that I maybe will forever and, you know, for a long time wrestle with and wonder about, but I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe he's my savior.

And if that's at the core of everything, then I can figure the rest out. And so that has been such a privilege to teach my kids is, is that this gospel has Jesus Christ at its core. Beautifully said. Katie, I have enjoyed this conversation so much. I've, I feel like I've learned a lot and I'm sure a lot of listeners have, and if If people are not following your account that have young kids, I just want to offer my endorsement.

But my last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Um, first, that's so kind of you. Thank you. And second of all, I think this ties back to what we were just talking about. For me, Knowing that Jesus Christ is at the center of this gospel makes it actually really easy for me to be all in.

He's who I want to be all in on. And I don't think that means that I have all the answers or a perfect testimony of every part of the gospel. But to me, seeing Christ at the core of everything I do and everything I say and everything I teach my kids and everything I do in my [00:50:00] calling or at work or anything like that.

And, and being committed to him and loving people the way he loved, that feels like the all in commitment that I feel like blessed and privileged to make. And that's, to me, what that means. I love that. Nobody, I don't think in six years, I don't think anybody's approached that question in that way. And I love thinking of it that way.

Katie, you are a delight. Thank you so much for spending some time with me. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

We are so grateful to Katie Wade Neser for joining us on today's episode. Be sure to check out Come Follow Me Toddlers on Instagram. And as always, we are so grateful to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode, and we're so grateful to you for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.