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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: A Church Magazine article written by Kenneth Rooks has a small quote under the title that reads, You should never give up even when you fall. Believe me. In 2022, Rooks shot the world when he fell during the 3,000 meter steeplechase in the U. S. National Championships. He was two laps into the race when the runner in front of him stumbled, causing Rooks to almost run into him and ultimately to fall as they went over one of the wooden barriers that makes the steeplechase so unique. But it wasn't his fall that made his race memorable. It was that Rooks got up from that fall and proceeded to come back and win the race. There are countless gospel analogies you could draw from Rooks race, but I particularly love what he wrote.

I wasn't guaranteed to win the race after I fell, he said, but when we fall in the gospel, when we make mistakes or sin, we can always come unto Christ, sincerely repent and be forgiven. He will help us get back up. We have great potential, the potential to be better, to do better. Even if we fall again and again, if we keep repenting and trying to follow the savior, then he promises we can win the race of life End quote. Kenneth Brooks became an Olympic silver medalist in Paris this summer, originally from College Place Washington. He is now a professional athlete for Nike, but during his college career at BYU, he won the 2023 National Championship. He was also married earlier this year to his wife Taylor.

This is All In an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson. And I am so honored to have Kenneth Brooks on the line with me today. Kenneth, welcome.

[00:01:52] Kenneth Rooks: Thank you.

[00:01:54] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I started before we ever hit record. I told Kenneth that my husband and I felt like his race in the Olympics was one of the best moments, not only of this Olympics, but maybe ever.

It was so fun cheering for you, Kenneth, and I'm excited to to hear more about your experiences. But I thought we would kind of frame this interview in a little bit of a unique way. We obviously could talk about a lot of your different accomplishments. But you have had two races that I feel like have made you like firmly solidified in people's minds.

And the first was the U. S. Championships where you fell in the race and yet came back to win. And so I wondered if we could start there and I wanted to ask you when you fell in that race, what was initially going through your mind?

[00:02:48] Kenneth Rooks: That's a great question. I've been asked that question quite a bit, actually, but I love answering that question.

What was going through my mind initially when I fell, I. Was first just like, Oh, just trying to think about like, Oh, I want to make sure no one steps on me. I hope nobody steps on me. That's that was my first thoughts and I was just trying to roll To try and see if I could reduce the impact a little bit I was very blessed that no one stepped on me in that race and I popped up and It was damage assessment.

Okay. Is any, am I hurt at all? And I wasn't hurt. And so then I had to decide what do I do now? And the thought popped into my head, like, do I step off the track or do I keep going? And, uh, because I was pretty discouraged in that moment. Like I was, I was not hoping to fall, like that was not part of my plan.

Um, but then I decided I was going to go, uh, I was going to keep going. And when I made the decision to keep going, Henry Marsh, who's an ex BYU runner, his name popped into my head and a plan. That I had thought about, about what I would do if I fell also popped into my head to, um, they, those two thoughts were connected because Henry Marsh used to run a lot of his races, started like from the back and then work his worked his way up towards the front.

And so I came up with some sort of a plan. Like if I fell, you know, I probably would be behind. And so I would just need to, I thought, you know, if I, if I fell, I just need to slowly work my way back up and be patient. And then, you know, I, I might be able to, to do a lot more and be more successful than I might think.

So that's, those are the, some of the things that I, I thought about. And so when I thought about that plan, I started to execute that plan. And I got up and I. Got back into a rhythm and slowly made my way back up to the pack, caught up to the back and then in two laps, took me in two laps to catch the back of the pack.

And then, then I was back in racing.

[00:05:17] Morgan Jones Pearson: And from what I understand, Kenneth, that plan that you mentioned stemmed from an experience that you had had a couple of months earlier in practice where you had fallen and you and your coach at Eyestone had had this conversation about what would you do if you fell in an actual race?

I think there's a lot of life application in that that, you know, so many times if we have a plan beforehand of like, this is how I'll respond in this situation. It can be beneficial. So I wondered like what value would you say Is there in deciding what you'll do beforehand not only in a race but in life?

[00:06:02] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah, I I think that the value of deciding beforehand What you will do helps out because in my particular situation when I fell and I was in a race I don't have time to like really think about Everything that's going on, and so I needed to be a little bit instinctual, uh, and so having a plan already in my mind could help my instincts just go directly to that plan, and so that that's helpful.

It just makes it easier to to fall back on something and. It's not to say that I couldn't have been successful if I hadn't have created, uh, some sort of a plan of what I would do if I fell, uh, before the race, but I definitely believe that, that I was more successful because I had a plan in place and I just had to decide, okay, well, this is where we're at.

I wasn't expecting to be here, but I have a plan. I'll just execute the plan and and see where that takes me.

[00:07:07] Morgan Jones Pearson: That makes complete sense. Kenneth, you said that in that race, even in the same day as you were taking your victory lap, people were thanking you for the lesson that you taught them. By you're running in that race.

I wondered what would you say? I think many times there's like an obvious lesson and then they're also kind of deeper lessons that we learned through our own experience. So what would you say was the obvious lesson and you're running that race? And then were there additional lessons that you feel like you learned?

[00:07:44] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah, I, I think that the, the obvious lesson that, uh, probably stuck out was never give up that, that was the, the obvious lesson, like sometimes we may, uh, encounter obstacles or be in positions where we think that, you know, uh, man, this is, it's not possible, but we just had need to get up and keep going and, and sometimes there is more possible than what we may think.

And so I, I think that that was the most obvious lesson was to never give up and to, and to just give it, give it everything that you have, um, regardless of the situation that you're in. And, and, um, I think that other lessons that, I also recognized and the others recognized was there's a little bit of a gospel allegory, uh, I guess with the, with the race where if we apply it to like life in life, we face challenges.

We may fall down and we may. Well, we'll need to get back up and choose to keep going. And especially with like the gospel of Jesus Christ, one of the ways that we fall down is, you know, we, we sin and repentance is one of the ways we can apply the atonement of Jesus Christ, to be able to get up and to keep going.

And because of the atoning power of Jesus Christ, we are Promise that we will be healed and we can find healing and that as we follow the gospel of Jesus Christ and rely upon him, that we can eventually win that, win the race. And that is a lot more sure than, than, you know, my, my race. And so I think that's a, that's a, that's a cool little.

Analogy there, uh, and connection there, I think there's also the lessons of being prepared. It's very helpful to be prepared for a fall like falls are going to happen in life or in wherever in the steeplechase. Falls happen sometimes. So I, I decided to create some sort of a plan of what I would do if I fell.

And so I guess even though I, I, I have a lot of confidence in my, my ability to, to hurdle well in racing. Isn't to race well and to, to do all, all of those things like there's so many factors that we don't know about, like there someone else might cause us to fall or meet. We might just mess up. But it's important to, to be prepared and to have some sort of a plan because it will help you be a lot more successful when you, when you choose to get up.

And keep going. And so, yeah, those are some of the, those are some of the lessons. There's a lot, there's other lessons I feel like that can be learned as well. I think, uh, one of the lessons is the lesson of having patience and also being present. I think that like for me, when I was making decisions in the race, like I wasn't focused necessarily, I wasn't focused on winning the race.

I was focused on what I was doing in the moment to. To try and be successful and to be competitive and I ended up being, being able to put myself into a position where I was able to win. And so being present and then sometimes patience means that we may want to be someplace right now, but we may like, we have to be patient.

We can't be there right now. Like for me, when I fell. Yeah, I would've loved to be with the pack, but I couldn't be there at that time. And so I just had to be patient and just be okay with the fact that, you know, I, I was gonna, it was gonna take me a few laps to catch back up to the back of the pack, and then it would, uh, you know, take a little bit of time for me to move up, uh, to get in better position later on in the race too.

So I think that that's another lesson as well.

[00:12:02] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah, I think all of those are so good. I want to touch on a couple of them. One, the repentance just yesterday in Sunday school, we were talking about repentance. And I had found a quote by President Nelson that in it, he says, start today to experience the joy of putting off the natural man.

The Savior loves us always, but especially when we repent. And I thought that that was really powerful, that idea of that. The savior loves us always, but especially in those moments where we choose to get back up, you know? Um, and then I think the, the idea that you mentioned about preparation with this podcast, it's funny because sometimes people will say, do you, do you ever get nervous for interviews?

And I'm always like, well, I always feel like if I'm prepared. There's no reason to fear and that the spirit can, like, help me out if I've prepared, but it's hard for the spirit to, like, call things to our remembrance if they weren't there to begin with, so I think that that is, like, preparation is key. I want to come back to that idea of patience later, so hang on to that thought.

But I think that running, while it is like a very competitive sport, it also seems like something my husband loves to run. And one thing that I've realized in watching him like train is that You have to be like more focused on becoming better than you were before. And I think in the gospel, we know that we're supposed to be focused on self improvement, but sometimes it can be really hard to not compare ourselves to others around us.

So I wondered how has running taught you to effectively focus on trying to be the best version of yourself rather than focusing on like, how are others running their race? Does that make sense?

[00:14:02] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. That's a great question. I like that question. One of the things that I did, uh, last year and this year to try and help myself, uh, be in a good mental space for, to be prepared for running was to meet with a sport psychologist.

And, and this was one of the things that we taught, I felt like we talked about that, like when to be successful. Sometimes we have to focus on more what, what we want to do or in terms of racing what kind of race I want to run and worrying less about those around me. Mm-Hmm. and in track and field. And I think in sports in general, there's a lot of comparison.

Like there's comparison, like trying to beat people or comparison of times or all that kind of stuff. But, um, I've learned and I've experienced that in, in moments where I haven't. There are races where I haven't run as well, or I haven't done as well. It's when I, I focus on other things, uh, and maybe what other people are doing less about what I'm doing and what I need to do.

And so going into races, I've learned that I need to focus on what I am going to do in the race and less about what other people are going to do in the race. And it's good for me to observe what others are doing and maybe even plan from what others may do. But, um, that's, there's a difference in like comparing like, Oh, wow, this person is doing like, this person is doing amazing.

Or, um, I'm feeling like horrible right now. And this person is just running past me where if I focus on like what I'm trying to do and just like, okay, well, this is happening, it's just an observation, but I'm trying to focus on what I'm wanting to do that helps me stay focused. It helps me stay more present.

And it's, it's much more fulfilling when in races and even in training in such that you're, when you're focused on. What just focused on doing what you want to do, then what others are doing, although it is a benefit to race and it is a benefit to compete with others. And it's even a benefit to train with others is because you can push each other and that, and that can be part of something that I choose to do is I choose to be competitive.

Um, but, um, not in a necessarily like a negative way. Another negative way of thinking of others is sometimes like I respect all my competitors so much, but if I respect them so much to like discount my ability to compete or run with, with other people. It's like, Oh man, all these runners are amazing. Like, how am I supposed to be able to compete with them?

If I get into that, that kind of a mindset, I begin to take myself out of, of the race before it even, even starts. And one thing that's important is for me to remind myself, like, I am here in this race because I am, I belong in this race. These competitors are incredible and they're amazing, but I belong. I can, I can compete with these people and looking at it in a positive, a positive way.

[00:17:24] Morgan Jones Pearson: I think that's awesome. I, um, we, we had Clayton Young on this podcast and afterward, because I felt more invested in his journey to the Olympics, we watched his whole like Asics series on YouTube. And it struck me that Clayton is very like strategic. And so I think it's interesting, like you have, he would, Often point out, you know, this person is way faster than me numbers wise, but I am trying to be strategic in the way that I approach this race.

And I think that's what makes him really good is that he thinks that way. And it also, I love the way you said the idea of you belong in the last video that he did from the Olympics. He talked about how at the beginning of the race, some thoughts of like imposter syndrome started to set in. He's like looking around.

He's like, why am I here? And then he just started repeating to himself, I belong. And I think that that thought is powerful. I want to shift to your Olympic finals race, because I think that that's another one that people watch and were so inspired by your performance. You started out that race and In the beginning, you were toward the back of the pack.

Um, I read about Coach Eyestone talking about his plan for you in that race and how he said, you know, if people come out quick, you just maintain this pace. And, and because of that, you were in dead last at some points of the race and you had to be patient in those early laps. And, and Coach Eyestone said, Like I even was starting to second guess the plan that I had given Kenneth and like, am I holding him back?

And I wonder, did you ever second guess that strategy or did you like have complete trust in it?

[00:19:23] Kenneth Rooks: That's a, that's a great question. I think that with most races and, and with that race in particular, there there's moments in the race where like, I think that it will cross my mind. I'm like, am I, am I doing what I need to do right now?

And I, I don't think that I second guessed myself like that, that plan, but I definitely got nervous. I mean, like being able to like, look around and being like, well, we're like, we're like a mile into this thing. And I'm in, I'm in last place right here, but I also have been in, I've been in, um, races before where I've been in the last or have been close to last.

And I've been able to have enough experience to, to, to be able to remind myself, like, okay, I'm in last right now, but I'm actually still like connected with the pack. I'm still in pretty good position. And so I'll just tell myself I had to remind myself of that. And the, the. The biggest, most important thing when, um, I'm, I'm in that kind of a position is I have to stay engaged and I have to say really aware of what's going on ahead of me, um, so that I, I can be able to be ready to respond to the race later on, because when I'm at the back, if I'm at the back and something happens up in the front, um, it, it's, it, it takes a lot longer for me to be able to respond.

To what happens at the front. So it's nerve wracking and it was nerve wracking, but it also was cool to be able to, to execute that plan and to move up later on in the race. Um, like I did and to be like, okay, well, this. I'm getting in better position. Like, okay, well, uh, okay. Al Bacali is next to me. Okay.

We're like, he's in about the same position I am. And he, he's one of the guys who might end up winning this thing. This isn't, I'm, I'm doing pretty good. So trying to, uh, be positive as I was, as I was moving up and trying to just be, be positive and remind myself that like, okay, well, this is nerve wracking, but I am.

I'm fine. I'm going to be okay. And I've had experience running toward the back. And so that helps, just helps me trust a little bit in that. And so, yeah.

[00:21:50] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, I thought it was interesting to think about as I was prepping for this interview that you, uh, Had to exercise great patience in both of these races.

So you had the one where you fell and you said you decided that you needed to catch up slowly. And then, um, with the second race, you had to kind of stick to that pace that coach Eyestone had laid out for you. What did you learn from those two experiences that were like both pretty different, um, but also similar in that you had to, to, uh, exercise patients?

What did you learn about patients from those two, two things?

[00:22:31] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah, I think that something that I've heard, and I don't know where this is from, but about how like patience is active and not passive and both in both races where I would describe myself being patient, I would say that patience wasn't active.

Like, for example, in my race last year, where I won the U S championships, I was executing a plan and I was paying attention to like, okay, I'm slowly gradually like catching up. And so I was actively, you know, working my way up towards the front and just being patient in the sense of like, Okay, I'm actively trying to move up slowly, but I'm not trying to move up too fast, but I'm also not waiting around for like things to happen necessarily.

And also like the race at the Olympics this last year, I had to be patient with the plan that I was executing. I had to, I had to, I was executing a plan. Like I, I didn't want to go out too hard. And so. We executed the plan that I, that I did to try and be more conservative and more relaxed for a majority of the race, but also part of that patience was staying mentally engaged because I had to make sure that I.

I executed the plan, but I was also mentally engaged to be able to move up later on in the race. And it becomes difficult in both situations to stay mentally present and to be able to make the moves that I needed to make later on in the race, because part of it is just, I mean, part of the patients, it's just, it literally is just staying, staying mentally engaged and just trusting that like, okay, well, you know, even the racing is, is, is uncomfortable.

Sometimes my position may not be where I, where I may want it, or maybe it is where I want it, but I just. Have to trust and be patient that, you know, things are going to, things are going to be okay. Things are going to work out and being curious at the same time about, you know, what's okay. Well, let's just stay in a little bit longer and let's do this move just a little bit longer. And let's be curious to see where this takes us.

[00:25:12] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's it's so interesting to hear kind of your thought process and the way that you approach things. I have been so impressed as I have kind of followed the handful of BYU athletes with both Coach Eyestone and Coach Taylor on the women's side. I wondered, Coach Eyestone, clearly a legend. You've already talked about how he helped you kind of lay out a plan. What would you say makes Coach Eyestone such a great coach?

[00:25:44] Kenneth Rooks: That's a that's a good question. I think coach Eyestone. There's there's a lot of different aspects of him that make him a really good coach And coach Eyestone and coach Taylor are both really good coaches.

They've had a lot of success I've been able to work with coach Eyestone and He has experience at the highest level. He's been an Olympian before, right? And he's competed through, like when I was in college, he's gone through the NCAA. And so his experience helps him in his coaching, uh, some of the lessons that he was, he's been able to learn through his training.

And then I also think that, that coach Eyestone. Is good at exercising restraint, uh, because he also has been able to learn through his experience and through observing runners that, you know, with training, we want to put hard, hard work in, want to get some good hard work in. We want to get fit, but we also want to be wise.

We also want to not work ourselves too hard. Like we want to be able to, to, to work out well and race well and recover well so that we can receive the benefits of our training. And then I also think that coach Eyestone, because of who he is, he is very, I feel like faith is, is a big part of who he is and that is connected with his running.

I feel like I, I connected my running and my faith. Before I met coach Eyestone but for me in particular, I feel like him having that connection between faith and, and, and running has helped him be a good coach, especially for me. And that's been really helpful and really important, especially because. He understands what matters most and he can kind of remind us what matters most in good and bad races.

We sometimes call coach Eyestone EZE because, because he is, he's just kind of relaxed, but he's also like all about putting in the hard work, but he's kind of relaxed. He lets us grow in our own ways. Like he does influence and help shape, shape us, but he also gives us enough room so that we can grow and become like.

Our own runners coach Eyestone does a very good job at empowering his athletes to be the best version of themselves and the best athletes that they can be. Um, and yeah, him being easy, easy. He, uh, he, we, we put in the hard work, but he also is, he understands what matters most and he, he doesn't give us too much pressure, but he also isn't.

So easy that we are lax or lazy or don't feel like the needed pressure that we need to fill.

[00:28:42] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah. Which I think is a difficult, that's a difficult balance to strike. And, and I'm impressed that he's able to do that. I want to touch on a few of the things that you said, you talked about him empowering you and other athletes, Kenneth, as a freshman at BYU, did you You didn't even make the travel squad for track and field or cross country, but coach Eyestone said that he thought you could be an all American and steeple chase.

What do you think? And you've said that that ultimately, like that played a role in your choosing to focus on steeple chase. What do you think he saw in you and what does it mean when someone sees our potential?

[00:29:25] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. It is. Yeah. My freshman year was a hard transition for me.

Coming in, I, I got injured my senior year, and so I, during the summer, I had to heal from that and also try and get into, get in a good enough shape to try and travel in the fall, and I missed the travel squad, uh, and then I got hurt again, and then I was able to get back into shape, um, during the indoor season, didn't travel during indoor season.

Um, but coach Eyestone had great faith in, in me as a steeplechaser. I think part of that was because I took to the hurdling form so quickly. I also, ever since high school, like I was in high school when he was recruiting me, he, he thought that I might be a good steeplechaser because I played other sports, uh, growing up, I, I, I played soccer, I played baseball, I played basketball, I also played basketball in high school as well.

And so he thought. You know, okay, well, he's got some other athletic ability, so he might take to hurtling really, really easily, easily. And sometimes athletes with a more athletic ability, he's found they can thrive in the steeplechase. And, and so I, I, he, he thought I'd be good at it. And it was Really cool for him to express his belief in me, even before the beginning of the outdoor track season, my freshman year, when I, we were talking about goals and I told him what my goal was and, and, uh, he told me that he thought that I could be, uh, a all American in the steeplechase someday.

And I, I thought that was, that meant a lot to me, especially because I hadn't traveled yet for the team. And like him being able to express that, that amount of belief in me, it really helped me out and that helped me continue to just trust and believe in myself and to just keep, keep working hard. And that my freshman year, I ended up qualifying for nationals, uh, in, in the steeplechase and there's other, there's a lot of other factors that also played into that, but.

I definitely, uh, feel like coach Eyestone, uh, just expressing his belief in me helped help me help me have confidence and, and lift my vision a little bit.

[00:31:55] Morgan Jones Pearson: Kenneth, you, you mentioned earlier that, um, you already, before being coached by coach Eyestone, you connected your faith. And you're running. And I think that this is such an interesting thing.

I will admit I've never been a big runner. Um, but my husband got me a little bit more into running and I feel like every time I run, I, I think of like, Oh, there are these like spiritual parallels to running. I think they're very connected. And so, um, I wondered for you. What are the like biggest lessons that you feel like you've learned about the gospel from running?

[00:32:37] Kenneth Rooks: That's a great question biggest lessons that I've learned about the gospel from running um Well, I feel That you know One of the lessons i've learned is that some of the things that are Worth the most require the most opposition. Uh, I feel like that's something I probably learned maybe before Uh, running, but it definitely, uh, is something that I think about when I, especially when I'm getting ready for a race and it's something that, um, you know, racing definitely confirms that that is truth.

Uh, I get nervous before I race, uh, every single time. And I have to deal with the positive and the negative thoughts that are in my head and ultimately what helps me be successful when I run because running is uncomfortable and it hurts and part of why we race and why we try and improve ourselves. Is to, to just basically push in ourselves and see how far we can push ourselves and push the boundary of trying to, I mean, not only just getting more fit, but being able to see how far, you know, you can push yourself through the, the pain and the uncomfortability that you experience.

And reminding myself that there's opposition in all things helps me deal with the negative thoughts and, and, uh, And the challenges that I, I face in, in races, like races, it's like, you can plan for a race, but there's. It's hard to, uh, for the race to go perfectly as you, as you envision it, it never really does go perfectly as you, as you envisioned it.

And so understanding that like, things aren't going to be perfect and you're saying like, okay, well, some negative thoughts are going to come into my head. So I just have to deal with them and then kick them out like that. That's just the reality of what happens. Even with. The gospel, you know, there's, there is opposition and when we're trying to live the principles of the gospel, there are forces and there's things that will try and persuade us to give up or to, To, to not live the gospel or to, or whatever it is, or, or even to just give up in life and, and so, uh, but because there's opposition in all things, there's also a lot of really good things.

There's a lot of good and. Especially with running, running is uncomfortable. Sometimes change in and of itself, like repentance or even following some of the gospel principles is uncomfortable and being uncomfortable is okay. And being uncomfortable leads to change and growth and. I wouldn't have been able to grow in all the, the, the things that I've been doing with running with training and with races, unless I was willing to be uncomfortable and unless I was able to put myself in uncomfortable situations and be okay with being uncomfortable.

And, uh, part of living the gospel is learning to be okay with being uncomfortable because as disciples of Jesus Christ, we're always trying to, to better exemplify Christ, better follow his principles and his teachings and his example. And that requires us to change and sometimes that's uncomfortable.

[00:36:18] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah. Well, and I, I also think, I think to that point, it made me think, I think. The longer that time goes on, the, the more opposition it seems like there is in the world. And because of that, you have to be comfortable, like, Standing alone, you know, you have to be comfortable kind of to draw a parallel to your race, like hanging back and maybe not being a part of the pack.

And that can be hard. That can be uncomfortable. I think you made so many good points there. Another thing, Kenneth, that you've done that I think shows the way that your faith and you're running are connected. Is you've talked about how you read scriptures before races when you're nervous and that a lot of other people might like, listen to music, but the scriptures are the thing that allow you to calm down.

I wondered how long have you done that and what is it about reading scripture that you think has that ability to kind of. Center you and calm you down.

[00:37:22] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. Um, I feel like The scriptures help me Help remind me what matters most I feel like the scriptures calm me down.

I get really amped up before races. I get nervous like sometimes i'll even It depends on the race or it depends on the day, but there have been days where i've got so nervous I feel like i'm gonna fall over at the starting line. And so for me I try and Get my nerves to calm down. And one of the ways that I can do that is by reading the scriptures.

It's just, it just helps remind me that like, okay, I'm in the hands of the Lord. And whatever happens today, I'm in the hands of the Lord. And like, ultimately, like, yes, I want to be successful and the Lord can also help me be successful. And the strength of the Lord is a real thing. And I can, I can sometimes, you know, feel that strength and tap into that strength by reading the scriptures and by praying and by focusing on what matters most.

But also at the end of the day, you know, if I end up not racing well, or if it doesn't necessarily go as I want it to go, you know, the Lord's the Lord's there and he loves me and he, and he knows he knows me and, and he cares about me. Amen. And I'm, I'm in his hands and whatever happens, like things are going to work out.

And that, so that's, that's some of the thoughts that come into my, my mind. I also recognize that sometimes, you know, with, I guess, the stage that I'm at, um, being at the world stage or, or otherwise, um, even in small ways, world stage, you know, I have an opportunity to, to maybe be an instrument in the hands of the Lord and just through my racing.

And so that's also something that I will try and think about a little bit to maybe that's maybe not necessarily 100 percent connected to my, my career. Why I read scriptures before the race. I think I read the scriptures before the race to just help calm me down, help me remember what matters most. But, um, I also recognize and try and remember that, you know, that this is a little bit bigger than just myself.

And, you know, I might be able to be an instrument. In the hands of God for just one person, uh, or me or many people, but, um, I know that the Lord, if I am willing, can be able to use my talents to be able to bless others. And so that's something that I will think about and remember.

[00:40:09] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I loved Kenneth reading the interview that you did, I believe it was with Trent Toone from Church News about how while in Paris you read Alma chapter 26 where Ammon talks about like, I don't boast of myself, but I boast of the Lord. Knowing that in his strength, we can do all things. And I think you did a great job tapping into the enabling power of the atonement that, that can cover so many aspects of our lives.

You all had quite the group of BYU athletes in Paris. And I was so impressed by how you all carried yourselves. It was fun to watch, even like. Opening ceremonies, you know, like Channing USA and. Watching how excited you all seem to be there and, and the way that you represented not only BYU, but also the church, what did it mean to be a part of that group?

And how would you say that you all were able to kind of help and support and push one another?

[00:41:15] Kenneth Rooks: That was really special to be part of that group. Um, all the, all the BYU athletes who were there for track and field, the men and the women I've been teammates with at some point at BYU. And so it was really cool to have that connection.

We have the friendship that we have and the connection that we have already. And to be able to share that connection, even at the world stage was really, really cool. And it was, yeah, it was really special. I think that it's also just cool to, to be on the world stage and to recognize that, you know, that we're there, we represent something bigger than just ourselves, we represent the United States.

We are whoever country we represent. I mean, Rory Linkletter represented Canada, but we, we represent, um, the BYU family and, um, You know, I, I think that in terms of something that I thought of is that, you know, I feel like I represent the church of Jesus Christ, uh, of Latter day Saints and, and a disciple of Jesus Christ.

I, so it's, and there were different moments where. I could feel that. I feel like we felt that together. Um, in terms of like me, Connor Clayton and James, we were able to be part of a devotional at, um, in France. And before the devotional happened, I, I just felt impressed that like, okay, this is like us doing this devotional today is bigger than I think we, we realize.

And I don't know exactly what that meant 100 percent other than. The impacts were greater than we would be able to see. And I even felt similarly getting ready for, for the final, that the impacts of just us being at the Olympics and competing, um, were bigger than, than we could, than we could see both like for gospel reasons and outside of gospel reasons too.

[00:43:14] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's awesome. Obviously, to get to the point that you're at, to be an Olympian, to be a silver medalist, you have to be very disciplined. I wondered, what would you say you've learned about discipline and consistency, not only physically, but spiritually?

[00:43:35] Kenneth Rooks: Discipline and consistency. Is that what you said?

[00:43:38] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah.

[00:43:39] Kenneth Rooks: Okay. Well, consistency. I mean, if, if you want to get better at something, you have to be consistent. And, uh, there's the, I guess the classic phrase of like faith is like a muscle. Uh, that's very applicable for like running because if you want to get better at something, you More if you want to get in better shape, you have to be consistent with your training.

Um, but also you have to be consistent in how you take care of your body. Um, like you have to be able to be consistent in trying to rest and also listening to your body. Sometimes you have to take a step back. And so even with the gospel, if we want to grow spiritually, then we have to be consistent in doing things that will help us grow spiritually.

If we want to be closer to the Savior, Jesus Christ, we have to be consistent in coming unto him. And Like going in, doing whatever we need to, to come into him. And there also needs to, to be a balance. Like I, I like the scripture about it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength, but thereby he, he should be, he should be diligent that thereby he might win the price.

And I might've misquoted that just a little bit. I might've missed a few words, but it's in Mosiah chapter four, I think. Bye. Like even with the gospel, we need to be diligent and consistent that we may win the prize, but it's not requisite that we should run faster than we have strength. Running, running faster than we have strength is going to be detrimental to us for the long run.

We could burn out, we could Get injured. Not, not necessarily. I don't know exactly how to, what would be injury getting injured in that spiritual sense of growth, but it's, it's just important to just, uh, recognize that if, if we try and do too much, we can burn out. So we need to not run faster than we have strength, but we need to be consistent and we need to keep doing something to, to, to grow our, our fitness.

Uh, whether it's physically with running or spiritually with the gospel. And so it's, it's interesting, it's hard to try and find that balance, but I think that it's, it's an, it's an important principle and also even like with repentance, for example, when we're changing, we have to remember that we can't just change immediately.

And we'd like to, but we can't. And so just understanding that and then being, recognizing the little growths over time and in celebrating those, I think is important because even with training, like you can train for a year and then you only improve by, I don't know, a few seconds or whatever, or, you know, you, it may just, it may be hard to.

See the growth initially, but yeah, just being patient and celebrating those, those, those little growths and then just keep working at it and eventually we'll get there.

[00:46:53] Morgan Jones Pearson: I think that's, I think that's super well said. And, and I think that. That idea that change takes time, um, is so important for anybody to remember when they're trying to improve at anything.

Kenneth, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me and for the many, I've, you've given me a lot of takeaways, so I really appreciate it. My last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

[00:47:26] Kenneth Rooks: Yeah, for me, all in with the gospel of Jesus Christ, I think it just means where's, where's your priority and, and what matters, what matters most to you.

I think being all in with the gospel of Jesus Christ is, is just prioritizing what matters most. Um, and prioritizing Jesus Christ and, and, um, striving to always remember him that, um, I, like I say that, and I also know times when I have, I have fallen short of that and being all in with the gospel of Jesus Christ doesn't mean that you need to be perfect, but just trying the best you can to, to, you know, be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

And strengthen your relationship with Christ and, and repent and keep your covenants and, and yeah, just trying to do the best you can and recognizing that part of being all in is repentance. All in doesn't mean that you're not going to. Like you forget sometimes like you're, you might forget what matters most.

Um, and so being all in is being able to recognize when you forget and trying to remember, remember, remembrances is a powerful word. And it's in the book of Mormon a lot. Um, So, um, I think that those who are all in, uh, try and remember quickly.

[00:49:08] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah. And I think, I think that ties, that ties back in to the rest of our conversation and that idea of like getting back up and so thank you so, so much, Kenneth, I, I appreciate your time more than, you know, and, uh, we'll be continuing to root for you.

[00:49:31] Kenneth Rooks: Well, thank you. And before you go, I would like to just say one more thing. I think that, you know, my wife and I, we got married in February. I feel like she's been a really great support to me, to help me be all in with the gospel. And, uh, I also think that she's also helped me. Be all in and have the success that I've had with running this year.

Uh, and I think it's also important to remember that being all in with the gospel, uh, it means also not doing it alone and being able to have good people that you can rely upon, who can help you out. And I think my wife is one of those people.

[00:50:11] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that. Um, and congratulations on getting married. I feel like marriage is the best.

So, um, I, I wish you guys both all the best and yeah, like I said, we will, we will continue to be big Kenneth Rooks fans over here.

[00:50:28] Kenneth Rooks: Thank you.

[00:50:34] Morgan Jones Pearson: We are so grateful to Kenneth Rooks for joining us on today's episode. Be sure to check out our show notes for links to watch the two races we talked about in this interview if you haven't seen them, 10 out of 10 would recommend. Thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode and thank you for listening.

We'll be with you again next week.