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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: When Brigham Young University President Shane Reese quoted an all in episode during his commencement address in April, I thought we might actually have a chance at getting him on this show. He told the story of Andy Reid's conversion to the church as a BYU student and all that has happened in the years since.

And then he said, it is a classic BYU story, a story of becoming, it is a story full of triumphs and trials, as well as highs and lows. It is a story marked by daily decisions to choose Christian discipleship and the courage to embrace what Ruth L. Okediji. Described as a fully integrated life, a life in which religious convictions and professional pursuits are harmonized, not compartmentalized.

As I prepared for this interview, I discovered that President Reese's story is also a classic BYU story, a story of becoming. President Shane Reese has been serving as the academic vice president at BYU since 2019. Prior to beginning his tenure as president. President of Brigham Young University. In May, 2023, President Shane Reese had been serving as academic vice president since 2019.

He previously served as Dean of the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and joined the BYU statistics faculty in 2001. President Reese earned bachelor's and master's degrees in statistics from BYU and a doctoral degree in Statistics from Texas a and m. Reese has used his work in solving problems in professional sports franchises, national security and business.

He and his wife, Wendy, are the parents of three children.

This is All In an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to have President Shane Reese on the line with me today. President Reese, welcome.

[00:02:02] Dr. Shane Reese: Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here and be with you today.

[00:02:07] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I'll be honest with you. I have a few friends that are In at BYU in various capacities, and every single one of them speaks so highly of you. And I think that's a credit, a credit to you and all that you're doing. I know there was a lot of excitement when you were announced as president. And so I just am so excited to learn more about you and to learn from you.

But I wanted to start today, I learned something as I was preparing for this interview that I didn't know. And that is that you were raised by a single mom. And I think that is remarkable. I have so much respect, especially as a new mom. I'm like, I have no idea how single moms do it. So I wondered, could you tell us a little bit about your mom and what she instilled in you that has prepared you for the role that you now have as president of Brigham Young University?

[00:03:01] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah. Yeah. Well, certainly as the, as the president, as a father, excuse me, I'm going to jump away from being president for a couple of minutes and tell you as a father of three children, I don't know how my mom did it either. I, I, I am amazed my, my mom's a tremendous example to me. She, she really is my hero in so many ways.

Times weren't always easy for us when I was growing up and, and, but I didn't know any better. My mom sort of always, she's a very positive person and she kept, kept the vibe very positive around our home. And, and, and man, when I think of what things that she taught me when, when I was growing up that, that had an impact on, on kind of who I am as a president of the university.

Like her fingerprints are all over me when it comes to sort of who I am today. And I, and I just so grateful for the, the way she taught me that the two things that sort of just come right to my mind is my mom's work ethic is like crazy, crazy strong. She, she has always been a remarkable employee. She's been a remarkable servant in the church.

My mom today. Is a Relief Society president in a Swahili speaking branch in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and doesn't speak Swahili. So, and it's a community of refugees who ended up in Albuquerque and, and the amount of service that she gives to, to the sisters in her Relief Society and many of the members of her branch is remarkable.

So work ethic is, is probably the first thing I note. I, every time I think that I'm Putting in a solid day of work. I think it pales in comparison to what my mom did for the whole time I was growing up. So I just credit her with, with, with any sense of work ethic. I, I worry sometimes that I'm not doing justice to the example of hard work that she showed me because she is just, she's always been an amazing.

Example of hard work. And, and I, and I'm a big believer in, in kind of the old fashioned adage of, of an honest days, work for an honest days wage. And, and, and she taught me that from the time I was a really young kid. So I was, I'm always grateful for that. Boy, and there's so many other things, but, but as I think about it, I, I, I hope that people feel when they've interacted with me and in one setting or another, that, that, uh, they were treated with respect.

My mom taught me from the time I was a young kid that you ought to respect other people and you ought to treat other people kind of how you hope to be treated. And, and she modeled that. I mean, I just remember it didn't matter with whom she was speaking. What their background was, what their standing in the community was, or wasn't, she felt like all humans sort of deserve to be treated with respect and, and care and concern.

And so, again, I'm not, I'm not sure I do that as well as my mom did, but, but I certainly hope that I. That I try to try to try to try to behave a little bit like she taught me to behave. She, she certainly believed in, in the principle of respect. And so she might say that the piece I haven't really mastered very well is respecting your elders.

But other, other than that, I am grateful for my mom. She, she's such an incredible example. And it's a tough road being a parent period, but when you're doing it and going along that path as a single parent, it's remarkable. And she exemplified the best of parenting and, and having to really fulfill it in our case, both mom and dad.

I remember one time going to a primary and, and they were said, well, do you want to make father's day cards for your, for your dad? And one of my primary teachers said, well, maybe you want to make one for your mom. And, and, and, and that began, uh, a process of, of sending Father's Day cards to my mom. So , uh, she, she, she, she did, she fulfilled both roles so, so well, and it can't, can't have been easy.

But, but, but like I said, I didn't know that. 'cause she just, uh, she was incredible about maintaining kind of a positive vibe in her home. So

[00:07:11] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's incredible. Well, she obviously did a good job and. I can only imagine how proud she must be of you. So I thought we should start and give her some props at the top of the top of the interview.

[00:07:25] Dr. Shane Reese: She's earned all the props she gets. So

[00:07:28] Morgan Jones Pearson: perfect. Well, I, I want to start, I guess, kind of with a, with a story that involves her. I understand that you almost went home from BYU during your first semester. You were a long way from home, grew up in New Mexico, but you were struggling that for that first semester and your mom spoke with your homeward bishop who mentioned that his brother was at BYU as a law professor and that you should speak to him before you decided to come home.

And that law professor was president. Kevin Worthen. Years later, you would succeed Kevin Worthen as president of BYU. You've told that story and talked about how there are no coincidences. I am curious kind of what that conversation with President Worthen was like. But also, what do you wish that college students or youth understood about God's awareness of them and his involvement in the details of our lives?

Because I think that story is such a, an incredible example of God's awareness of each person.

[00:08:36] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah, boy, you did your homework. That's impressive. First of all, I tried. Yeah. You know, President Worthen has been a remarkable influence. And really, that was the first time I met him was when I was on the verge of, of heading home because I just, I wasn't having the model BYU experience, uh, during my freshman year.

And, and, and I was grateful for my home ward Bishop who had been influential in my life. Leading up to that, his, his name was Clyde Worthen, uh, uh, and Clyde recommending that I go visit his brother who at the time was a very young law school professor. He had just started. He'd only been on faculty for a couple of years when I went to visit him.

And you know, the amazing thing is it's not like he said anything particularly profound. In fact, I'm sure for him, it was completely forgettable. But for me, one of the things I was really struggling with was The fact that I had become my social at the time, social security numbers were our student ID numbers.

Uh, and I felt like rather than being Shane Reese, I was my social security number and that, that was just so dehumanizing in so many ways. And I remember standing in long lines at the bookstore and, and each time not being asked what's your name, but more, what is your, what is your ID number? And, and I just, I felt, I felt out of place.

I felt. Like I didn't belong and, and boy, just to have somebody who was part of the campus community, who was a faculty member, by the way, growing up, uh, not having spent a lot of time around college campuses, I viewed faculty members as kind of this sort of bigger than life, yeah, uh, characters and, and, and, and to have one of them.

Spend some time, call me by my name and tell me the thing I remember was, you know, I think if you'll give it a chance, you'll find that you really like BYU and it was just that moment of individual attention that made the difference for me. And look, I believe so strongly that there are no coincidences.

I mean, what's the likelihood that my homeward bishop would have a brother who would be the kind of person like Kevin Worthen is, to whom someone could refer me? Now I had to take the initiative and actually go to his office, which by the way, wasn't an easy step at the time. There was some initiative that was required.

But to have that connection and to have Kevin Worthen be as warm and as kind and as generous as he is. To be able to just offer a couple of words of encouragement, it made all the difference. I think of the things that have cascaded from that initial meeting and, and, and have been so grateful that, that God is in the details of our lives.

Now, I'm not sure that all of the little details that, by the way, if we have eyes to see, I think it happens all the time. All the time. I mean, I think it's all around us every day, more times than we can count. And I'm not sure that the individual details where you can see his hand in your lives, that he cares so much about that detail, but what he does care about is the joy that his children experience.

And he knows the path that's going to lead to that joy. And it may be very different than the path that we've kind of envisioned for ourselves. Uh, I. Never imagined myself graduating from college necessarily, but I certainly didn't imagine myself going on for an advanced degree and nowhere in my wildest dreams would I ever have the thought that I would be sitting in this chair at this time at Brigham Young University.

But I know that God knew that path was out there and, and he has a path. Designed for each one of us. Sometimes we just have to yield ourselves, but, but he is in the details. And sometimes I think what it takes is for us to be able to have the courage to pray for eyes to see and ears to hear the fact that he's in those details.

Uh, so. Anyway, that's, I, I just, I see evidence of it all the time. Uh, and, and I, and, but I'm also aware that it's probably been many more instances where I wasn't paying very close attention to him being in the details of my life. So.

[00:13:02] Morgan Jones Pearson: Right. Well, it's, it's crazy to think I love that example, just because it's crazy to me to think what would have happened if you had gone home from BYU first semester and it's that, you know, life, uh, hinges on or life turns on small hinges.

I'm butchering that quote. But I, I have a little sister that is she graduated from high school today, actually, and she's headed to BYU Hawaii in the fall, and I've thought a lot about. My college experience and homesickness in particular, I think that my mom always says homesickness is a real sickness that it has to run its course.

And so I wondered for you as somebody who was a little bit homesick and who considered going home. What would be your advice to a homesick college freshman, as there likely will be some in the fall?

[00:13:59] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah, there will be. I'm convinced of it. And actually, I think we may have increased incidents of homesickness, just because this generation, I think, is suffering from an epidemic of loneliness.

So I think this is a real thing. And I think we're going to see more and more homesickness. Homesickness. Uh, I, one of the things I love and, and, and it's maybe counterintuitive, uh, for, for, uh, students as they get to, to campus here at BYU or at BYU Hawaii or BYU Idaho, or candidly, any place where you're not really close to your comfort zone.

'cause I think that it, it'll happen at many institutions, not just our CES institutions. But I love what other Christofferson, when he talked about the doctrine of belonging. He said, which, which candidly belonging is the, is the antidote to, to homesickness. Uh, and, and he talked about that belonging is derived from service and sacrifice.

And I remember when I first read that thinking, how, what does that have to have to do with belonging? And really, I think the summary is, is that the secret to that sort of homesickness dilemma that so many students, when they arrive on a college campus, find themselves is that they got to get outside themselves and service and sacrifice, get us outside of ourselves.

And I'm amazed that that was really where I was having a problem. When I look back on it in retrospect, I didn't know it at the time. And it wasn't until talking about this experience with Kevin Worthen that I realized, yeah, yeah, when I was most homesick, I was, I was caught up in Shane Reese. I, I, I was in a me centric mode.

Uh, and, and when I was able to get out of that mode, A, thinking about others and B, Putting myself out there. I think sometimes we get so caught up in, in, in, in what's going on that we don't put ourselves out there. And so my advice is, is, is really the similar advice. I'll just riff off of Elder Christofferson, which is get yourself out there.

So, and that's going to mean going to some activities that are out of your comfort zone. It's going to mean talking to people with whom you're not familiar. And that's way out of your comfort zone. And it means finding opportunities to serve other people, whether that's be in your ward as a ministering brother or sister, or whether that be in a service learning opportunity on campus, it means sacrifice, put some of your own.

Like challenges and struggles aside for a minute and sacrifice for, for someone else. It's um, it's, it's nearly a miraculous recipe and it's probably counterintuitive. I think so often we get in this mode of being homesick and we want to nurture and hold on to that homesickness and, and, and, and coddle the, the homesickness rather than relieve ourself of it.

So I would just tell our students when they get to campus, Is, is, is listen to Elder Christofferson because he's got some great counsel on, on, on how we create a sense of belonging.

[00:17:20] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I know that has been something that you have been big on is creating a space of belonging. And we'll talk more about that as we get further into our discussion, but I wanted to, to start out.

You have a background in statistics and your family has said that they don't think anyone loves statistics like you do. You yourself said that statistics makes you in quotes giddy. So what is it about this study that makes it such a passion for you?

[00:17:52] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah, I hope the word giddy doesn't come back and bite me some, because, uh, but, but, but, but honestly, it's true.

I do get super excited about statistics. Some would say unhealthily. So I think even students that have taken classes from me would say, you know, it's probably unhealthy how excited you get about statistics. But, but for me, I remember I, I was, I came to BYU and I, uh, I thought I was going to be an engineer and, and I, and I took a class that was supposed to make you want to be an engineer.

And it did anything but that. Yeah. And then I thought maybe I'd go into business school and one of the prerequisites, I had a lot of math under my belt and I had to take a stats class. I tell this story, my mom wants to deny that it's true, but BYU sent a letter to people who did well on the ACT in the math section and they said, maybe you should consider statistics.

And my mom said, whatever you do, don't go into statistics. Those are the most boring people on the planet. And, and, uh, so I was sort of going in with that bias, but man, when I took that first class, I loved the way it helped us grapple with uncertainty to me, that, that, that sort of is the essence of statistics is how do you grapple with uncertainty?

And, and whether I've applied it to glacier movement in high mountain Asia or Antarctica, or whether I've applied it to the reliability of, of nuclear weapons, or whether I've applied it to sort of injury healing profiles. Whether I've applied it to sports, done a lot of work in sports analytics, all of those having common, trying to grapple with uncertainty and bring kind of mathematical models to help us understand that uncertainty and make decisions.

And for me, My wife sometimes says that I have intellectual ADHD, that I'm looking for things to sort of do on a regular basis that are different. And statistics allowed me to grapple with uncertainty in a whole wide variety of different disciplines. So, I get, I do get really excited about statistics.

And it's just because it's such a great, a great tool for me, uh, to learn more about the way things work. So I've loved it.

[00:19:59] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I wanted to, I wanted to touch on that kind of as a precursor to our next question, because I think it kind of sets it up. Well, you have one thing that you've discussed a lot is this idea of being bilingual in the spiritual and the secular.

And I noticed as I prepped for this interview, President Reese, I went back and read. Your various BYU speeches over the course of your time at BYU, even prior to becoming president. And I noticed that this is something that you really practice what you preach. I think you do a really good job of blending that secular and the spiritual, and it seems like you're somebody that's incredibly well read.

And as someone that wants to become more well read, I wondered, what is your secret and how would you say that we can develop More fully this ability to be bilingual.

[00:20:51] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah, well Certainly when we talk about being bilingual, I need to give credit where credit's due that that term was not coined by Shane Reese Uh President Kimball in what I would describe as one of the most remarkable addresses ever given on this campus the second century address Talked about being bilingual or or embracing our double heritage As people who can speak with authority in our discipline But also have A keen ability to speak about things sacred and, and, and, and that, that, that ability to speak in both of those spheres with confidence and ability is what he would call being bilingual.

I don't think there are secrets to being bilingual. For me, I think it involves some, some basic, Ideas first. I think you gotta be deliberate. I think you absolutely have to be intentional and deliberate about trying to do both of those things simultaneous. I, I, it, it's, I think the academy and I think intellectuals who, who, who shape a lot of the discussion on the philosophy of gaining education and being educated.

Would say that, that you, you can't do both of those things simultaneously. And I just, I just refute that. I think that you can do that. And I think the secret is a secret, or maybe the, the old school answers to this are first of all, being humble enough to acknowledge what we don't know. In both of those spheres, I think we have to have some honest, intellectual humility.

President Nelson, when he was dedicating the life sciences building on this campus, he said that when you really are faced with tensions between science and religion, it is his experience that those tensions aren't real tensions at all. They're perceived tensions, and they mostly derive from a lack of knowledge in one or the other of those two spheres.

So when we're trying to be bilingual, I think it's a willingness to be humble enough to say, I don't know. I have some uncertainty about what a gospel answer to this particular question is, or I have uncertainty about what this scientific model would, would say about this question. And because so often, for example, People in one or the other of those two spheres, a certain more certainty than they really have.

So I think it starts with humility, and then it's, it's digging in and doing some hard work. Uh, that's sort of back to my mom's lesson about hard work and work ethic is that you got to be willing to put in time in, in improving your gospel study, putting in time and trying to be well read in, in, in all of the scholarly graces.

And I think that when you do those things, what you'll find is a beautiful confluence that these things aren't mutually exclusive or even competitive with one another, but they are mutually reinforcing. Uh, and, and I find that to be an absolutely beautiful, beautiful confluence and, and the, the, the bilingual late nature of that really does often lead to sort of, uh, this kind of unified language.

So anyway, I, I, I'm not sure I'm a, uh, A great example of this myself, but, but I do try to work hard at, at, at, at improving both of those elements. And I, I just see a tremendous, uh, beauty in, in how they come together for me. Uh, so,

[00:24:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: well, I, like I said, I was really impressed as I, as I went back and read. Some of your talks and the many different sources that you pull from and And I it made me want to be better.

So thank you for that Um, and I want to I want to come back to this idea of academia that you've mentioned But before we get too far into that, I wanted to ask you I imagine that there are many that are listening to this interview who byu Whose kids have no intention of going to byu Um And I wondered what you would say in terms of why any church member, regardless of their history with BYU or their interest, why they should care about what's happening at Brigham Young University right now as a church member.

[00:25:19] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah, boy. That's a great, great question. And one of the things that I'm now looking above our camera and my screen, because on my wall here, as you walk into my office, the very 1st thing that's sitting on my wall is I have a framed. Widow's might that I got, uh, when I was in, uh, Jerusalem, uh, which was shortly after I was named president, we went to the Jerusalem center and I got a widow's mind and I put it on my wall.

And it's a reminder to me, uh, of the incredible. Uh, contributions, uh, uh, that come to Brigham young university and many of which are from the tithing funds of the church. So we at the university are super humbled. By the generous, generous contribution that we received from the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints from our board of trustees for, for our mission at BYU.

And, and so when people ask me questions, like you just asked me, I'm pretty stoic about, about my thoughts on this because it is not lost on me. Uh, the generosity from the tithe payers of the church. And when I, when I offer prayers of gratitude on this campus and in my own personal prayers, I regularly express gratitude to our heavenly father for the tithe payers of the church and for their generous contributions, which make the mission of this university possible.

So, so I, I guess I'm not yet answering your question, but I do. Want to express my gratitude to, to all those in your listening audiences, certainly the tithe payers worldwide, because it's not lost on me the source of, of, of the opportunities that this university has is the tithe payers of the church. So.

It's, it's important and, and we take the stewardship over those funds very seriously. It's something that, that, that I don't take lightly. Other Christofferson and his charge, when he, at my inauguration talked about my responsibility as the steward for those sacred funds, uh, and we view all funds that come through the university's coffers, whether they be tithing funds or other donated funds as sacred funds.

And so we, we we're conscientious of, of the, of the question. Uh, but, but the short answer for me is that, is that we have, uh, this important dual mission that we have to have as a church school, as a school that's sponsored by the church, Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, who has as its board of trustees, Those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators, and that sacred trust to carry forth a mission of a university that can simultaneously pursue academic rigor.

We've got to prepare people for the jobs that they're going to leave this university and go and take. And we have to develop people who leave this university who can be disciples of Jesus Christ. So we care deeply about that joint mission that we have as a university. And if we're not unique, if we're not different, if we don't provide value, other than just a great educational opportunity, then I could imagine that the church would feel like they could They could give students scholarships to go to any other school for about the same return.

But, but we've got to add something unique. And so we feel the responsibility and the importance of our mission at BYU being unique. And it's my job as the president of the university to make sure that we retain a sharp laser like focus on that combined mission. So, so I think for me, That's why it matters.

It matters that BYU be a unique light on the hill that cannot be hit. And that is not, I don't say that from a position of pride or being puffed up. I say it from a perspective of, of we have to be different from the rest of the academy, and we have to be committed to our unique mission, which by the way, includes, A firm focus on undergraduate teaching as our primary mission, most universities that are our size have gravitated towards a research focus as their primary focus.

And we've got to retain that part of our uniqueness as well. And the academy would pull us away from both of those focus areas. And when we do that informed. And led and directed by profits, Sears and revelators. And guided by inspiration that was shared by, say, President Kimball in his second century address.

We can shine a unique light and we can contribute to the light that's being shared by the missionary effort of the church, by the, by all of those things. And it doesn't matter whether it's our academic programs, the research that we conduct, our athletic programs, all of those, I think, contribute to what we hope is a unique light.

And we're going to make mistakes. We're going to stumble. We're not always going to get it right. But, but I will tell you that we're firmly committed. To getting it right and to trying to be that that light that that is unique in the space of higher education. I believe more now than ever that those types of unique lights in the ecosphere of higher education are needed.

Uh, and, and that there is a place where, where not only is it needed, the value proposition of education is improved by what we have to offer.

[00:31:01] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, that makes so much sense to me. And I just was thinking about it in, in terms of my most recent experience, which is that my husband's in grad school and there are a large number of BYU grads in his graduate program.

And thinking about how. Other people that are in school with him see our group and they're like, Oh, well, they're members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. And what, what impression do they have of the gospel of Jesus Christ based on their experience with us in this space? And I think that that's happening.

All over the place. So that's, it's interesting to think about going back to this idea of academia, President Reese, you have talked about student centered teaching and research. And you mentioned this that that so many in academia are focused on research. And I will be honest and say that I am not. As familiar with the academy and the way that all of that works, but I've spoken with my friends who are professors at BYU who have explained that sometimes this can put BYU in a tough spot because so much is about earning respect through published journals, articles, and research.

But that those journal articles tend to not favor looking through a lens of spirituality. I also have heard of, um, people who in recent years have had experiences in classes at BYU where, uh, there have been mentions of things like the family proclamation being outdated. And so I wondered, how would you respond to that?

And how do you deal with these challenges between academia and, and encouraging and making sure that. Professors are teaching things through a spiritual lens as you approach hiring at BYU.

[00:32:50] Dr. Shane Reese: Well, uh, one of the things that I used to hear President Worthen say when he was the president of the university is that the most important decisions that are made during his time as president will be the faculty we hire.

And I remember hearing that thinking, boy, you do lots of, you make lots of important decisions in that office. That's a bold statement. And he's not prone to overstatement. And, and since occupying this, this office, I feel the exact same way. Those, those are critical decisions. In part, because we ask our faculty, we ask them to be not only excellent in their disciplines, not only excellent in their teaching, but we ask for them to be role models of believers in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

We ask our faculty to boldly. And unabashedly declare their witness, uh, of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. And, and that's a heavy responsibility for our faculty because we are essentially saying to so many, uh, uh, of our faculty, all of our faculty, when they walk through our doors, How, how, how can you do what you're being asked at other places and assume this extra responsibility of being a role model and, and as the president of the university, I've committed to interviewing as many of those faculty as I can, as the academic vice president, I interviewed all of the faculty.

I've had to reduce that to about 50 percent of the faculty because of my time constraints. But what I want them to hear is from the, from the, the very top position at the university. That we care about both of those things. We want you to be excellent in your, in your sphere of influence as an academic, but we want you to also be bold enough to be a role model for these students.

And so clearly articulating what we, who we are as a university and hearing it from my own mouth becomes super critical. And it is vital for us as a university to have faculty who understand that vision for the university and say that they want to be a part of it. Here's the remarkable thing. When I talk to faculty in these interviews, they often tell me what this allows them to do.

Is to be their true authentic self where I call it an additional responsibility They actually feel like it's liberating because they haven't been able To share those things to be a a full Throated advocate and disciple of jesus christ in the classroom and out of the classroom and and we give them that Opportunity so i'm thrilled that we have faculty members who say to themselves I'm doing this because I feel like this is It's actually easier than my last job rather than harder because I'm not having to constrain myself and restrain myself from these other, other elements.

So, so during the time that I am president, I contend that those are the most important decisions that we'll make and we have to find faculty who are willing to testify. Of the truthfulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ in, in classrooms, including things that may or may not be popular, uh, in, in, in their disciplines, one of the things as well that I think is really important to me, I've often heard this described by our commissioner of church education, elder Clark Gilbert, that this gives us, and I like the way he's captured it.

This gives us an opportunity to ask different questions. This being at a religiously affiliated university, a university sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints gives us a chance to ask different questions, supportive questions of the doctrine on the family as found in, say, the proclamation on the family.

And so we have to lean into that, lean into Uh, the proclamation on the family and, and other such doctrines, uh, that, that, that may or may not be popular, but I think it, it affords us a real opportunity. And I'm thrilled to say that our faculty by and large have made that kind of decision.

[00:37:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, you mentioned with professors feeling like it's liberating.

Often people will say to me, is it hard to get people to come on all in people that don't typically talk about their faith? And I'm like, actually, no, people always seem very excited to be able to talk about that aspect of their lives because it's so important to people. So I can see that from a, from a professor's standpoint, that that would be liberating and freeing.

I, I want to. Talk a little bit. So one thing that I noticed as I went back and read your previous talks is that people who have followed you since becoming president have probably noticed a few things, your love for a talk that was given by President Kimball that you already mentioned in this interview about the second century of BYU and his reference of gospel methodology.

Your belief in fostering a covenant community of belonging. Another thing that's already come up in this interview and the uniqueness of BYU. So we've already kind of covered all of those things. And I learned that those are all things that have meant something to you long before becoming president.

These were the things that you have been kind of preaching all along. Why would you say that making sure that these things create a groundwork? Is so important for what you hope to accomplish in your time as president of BYU.

[00:38:24] Dr. Shane Reese: Oh, first of all, you really have done your homework. The, uh, the, uh, one of the things that, that I've, um, how I've sort of captured what really is, uh, a collection of things that, that have come from a whole lot of talks that, that.

I've given, President Kimball's given, I've been greatly influenced by President Worthen. It turns out there were a series of talks by President Oaks and Elder Bednar and President Holland that were highly influential in my thoughts on, on what the future of the university are. And, and, and it is sort of gathering all of those things.

I've really described it as becoming BYU and what we mean by that is, how do we become the Christ centered, prophetically directed University of Prophecy, and occasionally people will say, well, you got prophesy in there twice. I'm not sure you meant to repeat yourself. And it turns out I did, uh, I mean, Prophetically directed because my board of trustees at Brigham Young University is constituted of prophets, seers, and revelators.

And we get regular, regular input from them. We got great talks from president Oaks and elder Bednar and, and president Holland that were, were great. Just remarkable watershed moments for the campus community. That's what I mean by prophetically directed and University of Prophecy does really refer to President Kimball's second century address.

So it is grabbing all of what I think of as the, the, the most pressing issues. Uh, and, and, and, and, and. Turning it into really seven ideas that I talk about. And you mentioned almost all of them in your question. So I don't even need to go through them all, but, but we do focus on, on strengthening our student experience.

We, we, we are committed to our undergraduate teaching mission as the first place we start. Uh, and, and we are, it turns out, focused on being bilingual and we've got to be able to do that differently. We've got to have the courage. To be different. This is one of the areas that I think requires a little bit of intestinal fortitude to have that courage, to be different.

We we've got to invest in some mission inspired scholarship, and we've got to hire faculty who want to do. What we're hoping to do at the university, we, we, we've kind of got to be to borrow a name of a prominent podcast. We've got to be all in on, on the mission of the university. And, and that really is the essence of what we mean by.

Becoming BYU and, and it is, it is trying to get there. It's also candidly a recognition that we're building on the shoulders of giants. Uh, all of those who sat in this chair before me did amazing things to help us get where we are today. But it also says, look, we're not there yet. Becoming me is a process of acknowledging you're not there yet and we've got work left to do.

And so it's, it's both a nod to those who have come before and an aspiration for what we might become if we continue to embrace our uniqueness. So, so I love the question. I could probably keep going on and on about this. I get really excited about this topic because it's something that I talk about often and it's because I feel so passionately about it.

[00:41:52] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, I could listen to you talk about it all day long. Um, but I, I want to ask you, you mentioned, um, Recognizing that there's still room to grow room to do better. And speaking of that, prior to becoming president of BYU, you were on the BYU committee on race equity and belonging. And this is something that I know matters a lot to you.

Somehow this idea of, of. Equity and belonging has become a really political one, and I wondered why you would say that creating a place of belonging is actually not political, and why should all members of the church seek to create covenant communities of belonging?

[00:42:40] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah. I love this question. Uh, and, and candidly, uh, I think we, we, as members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, when we start with a common primary identity as children of God, I love President Nelson in his first address where it was directed at the church.

Explicitly and directly to the young adults of the church, and I say young adults because it was not just young single adults, it was young married adults, it was all of the young people of the church. He focused so strongly and distinctly and prophetically on our first shared identity as children of God.

When you start with that as your basis, It changes all the conversations, it throws away all of the politics and it means that you should treat people with respect and love. It, it, it means that you will, that you will do that in part because you start with a love of God. Uh, and, and for us as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints who understand that identity, Uh, perhaps the most prominent example and evidence of our discipleship of our understanding of our love of God and that we are children of God is how we treat our brothers and sisters.

It's it's a conversation changer and we should be better at this than anyone else. And we should be able to do this without being able. To be caught up in all of the, the divisive conversations that are going on around the country, around these issues, these politicized discussions, because we start with this common primary identity, and we know that our, that the way we treat other people with respect and love is evidence of our love of God.

Uh, so I, I just think that this, this, this ought to be a place where we have a position of relative strength, but when we start to try to. Do things like everyone else does it and we don't focus on the matters of most substance, right? Instead, we get caught up in ideas of, of, of, of symbolism and, and, and that, that are surface level kinds of discussions.

That's when I think we, we just have the same problems other people have. So it's my hope that we can start with that as, as our starting point. And when we do it changes the nature of the discussion and candidly, it changes the way we treat people. Both in terms of long term treatment and also in terms of the conversation we're having with people.

So, yeah, I, I, I do. I, this, this, when we, when we focus on covenants and those covenants being driven by the fact that we're all children of God. It changes the nature of the conversation and that leads to, I think, a completely different sense of what it means to belong. It is what Elder Gong described as covenant belonging.

And I think that's got to be an important part. of how we approach this, which candidly is going to be very different than the way that most of, most of the, of the institutions on in the United States and certainly in the world, uh, approach this.

[00:45:59] Morgan Jones Pearson: I completely agree with you and, and it really is. It's, it's amazing to me how divisive.

That idea has become in our world, and I think it, it falls on members of the church to take that political nature out of it. Well, I wanted to ask you, I know that you are a big sports fan, and as a sports junkie myself, I, I have wondered about people's kind of criticism at times of athletics. Um, and so removing our bias around sports, I wondered, how would you respond to someone who says BYU puts too much money into athletics?

Why would a church owned school even have sports?

[00:46:48] Dr. Shane Reese: Yeah, it's a, it's a great question and candidly, I think With the modern era of college sports, those questions are gonna, are gonna, I think, come to us more often. I often have questions about the, the high expense of college sports. There's a couple things when I talk to people about this question, and by the way, it's, it's always difficult for me to, you say, setting that bias aside.

I'll try the best I can, but, but I, but I do come at it from a perspective. That I think sports teaches some amazing lessons. I taught our, we have a brand new course required for all freshmen. And, and I asked them just a question in class about what was a moment where you felt stretched in your life and where you felt that that stretching made you better.

I mean, the literally I add, that's how I asked the question. And I was amazed men, women, athletically inclined people, non athletically inclined people, almost all of the examples ended up being from kind of a sports analogy. The, the, the, there is this soul stretching. Character building element of, of sports.

And so I believe in that just as an, as a, as a, as a, as an, as an aim. And, and people will say, well, you can get that from other models. You don't have to rely on high level institutionalized college athletics to get that benefit. And they're absolutely right. I can't deny that. But when I have conversations with people about this and recognizing that I am a little biased, is that, first of all, it's not always known that, that we, we, not a single cent of tithing dollars goes to our athletics program.

We, we just, that's not how our athletics program is funded. And, and, and I always think that's an important thing to, to start these conversations with. The athletics are funded from the revenues they create and from, from other donor funds, but, but that's an important part. But it's also amazing to me what athletics can do to increase the visibility and help with some missionary efforts of the church.

Uh, and, and, and we don't always do it right. And I know we have, again, this is a becoming area for me. We, we, we, we certainly have areas where we can improve, but when we do this, right, it's amazing what a tool it can be to share the light. Of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ with people who may not open their hearts and their minds to the conversation.

Otherwise, I consider just a quick example, this last year, we had a collaborative effort between our athletics program, our alumni organization and the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints to do. Tailgates, which we called a party with a purpose. Most tailgates are, are, are just wild parties to celebrate a football game.

But we, we incorporated in tailgates when we visited other schools, we incorporated a few extra elements. We incorporated a service project and the church was incredible about helping us with resources for service projects. And we partnered with a local charity. In the community where we were visiting, uh, and it was remarkable.

And we also, our BYU TV team constructed a new program that featured an amazing thing that's being done by the alumni of the school. That we were playing, not our own alumni, but their alumni, we call them big stories because we're just entering the big 12. And, and it is absolutely remarkable to see how these audiences at these visiting where we're the visitors, how they resonated with the stories we told of their alumni.

There was one of the schools who said our own conference television station. Gives us 42 seconds of airtime. BYU gave us a whole hour of airtime at their expense. I mean, they were blown away. You combine that with one of the traditions of our football team is to not only run out the American flag and the BYU flag, but we run out the state flag of the school where we're visiting.

And I heard from, for example, West Virginia fans who were in tears, they usually started out booing teams when they ran onto the field, but they couldn't bring themselves to boo because they were so touched by us running out the West Virginia state flag as part of our introduction to the big 12. And I just think that effort.

Is a great illustration of the wonderful things that athletics can do. And I know that we're going to make mistakes and I know we're not always going to get everything right in this, in this area, but the opportunity to shine the light of the gospel through athletics and through our athletes. Is is remarkable.

And so, so I'm, I'm bullish, but I also recognize that the landscape of college athletics is a dynamic and a fluid thing. And we're going to have to continue to strive to make ourselves unique. We're going to have to continue to do the things that, that are, Different than our peers, much like we do with the rest of the university in an era that is dominated by dollars.

[00:52:06] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I don't think anybody could have imagined when last basketball season ended how exciting and how many eyes would be on BYU basketball this offseason, but it certainly has to be an exciting time to be in Provo. I wanted to touch on a couple things before we wrap up. One was you gave a talk where you, the theme of your talk was consumed with conviction, which is a phrase that comes from a commencement address that President Jeffrey R. Holland gave. Gave at BYU in 2018. And he said in that talk, I do not agree that the best lack all conviction because you and a host of good people across the earth, like you prove otherwise. I believe you to be the very best. And I'm counting on you to be consumed with conviction. And I, I read your talk and then, um, I sent that quote, the full quote to my husband and, and that idea of being consumed with conviction stood out to both of us.

I wondered why does conviction matter? And if college students could become consumed with conviction of the gospel of Jesus Christ, what difference would it make in the world, in your opinion, president?

[00:53:23] Dr. Shane Reese: Well, just listening to you repeat that quote from President Holland, I almost got a weepy eyed. I've listened to that, that, that excerpt from that talk, uh, no less than 50 times.

And every time I hear it, I am so inspired by what he, he invited all the graduates that day to do and to become when they, when they leave BYU. And I just think if students could have a vision of their really to me, what that is, is an invitation for our students to understand their divine potential. And I don't just mean divine potential in the eternities.

It's divine potential here for what What standing up and being willing, be different to, to have that deep conviction of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and to let their light shine. It will make a difference, not only in their lives, not only in the lives of their. Family in their homes, not only in the lives of those within their communities, but it will absolutely change the world.

President Holland is also not prone to overstatement and it's a beautiful. Beautiful description of what they can do with their lives. I absolutely love that. It kind of reminds me, I'll just, just share this real quickly. I received some, some, some edits from on my inaugural response from, from members of our board of trustees, uh, and, and one of the clear.

Messages from those edits was that I needed to think bigger about the impact that our students would have when they left this university. I was really focused on, I was, I was thinking small in terms of the realm of influence. I was speaking, I was thinking about this campus, but they encouraged me to think broader because of what they see in the lives of these rising members of the rising generation.

I mean, it is unbelievable. The hope and optimism that, that, that is held by our board of trustees in these young people. And I share that. And so I just, I hope they know that. I hope they have a view of themselves of going out. And with that. Being consumed with conviction, what difference they can make in the world.

I mean, I feel it just so deeply that I hope that I can share just a little bit of what, of, of how that makes me feel inside as, as an excitement for, for their future and the impact they're going to have.

[00:56:11] Morgan Jones Pearson: I think, I think college is such a unique time in how pivotal it can be in someone's life. You recently, uh, spoke at the BYU commencement and you gave the example of Andy Reid, who joined the church at BYU and obviously most recently, uh, won a Super Bowl, has won multiple Super Bowls in the last few years.

And then thinking about you, we started this interview talking about BYU. Your choice to stay at BYU and where that's taken you and hopefully those listening can can have an idea Especially those that are young of their potential and ability to become President Reese. I appreciate your time so much My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

[00:56:59] Dr. Shane Reese: Well, it is a great question and for me I think It does boil down to my, to my testimony being all in for me really does mean that I know that we are led today by prophets, seers, and revelators, and that I, that I know that Russell M. Nelson is a prophet, seer, and revelator. And that he has all of the keys that, that we need to, to, to navigate the challenges and the difficulties and the trials and the struggles that we're going to experience.

But, but I know that he's got the keys that will help direct our lives to lead to joy and ultimately eternal life with our heavenly father. So, so it is that knowledge of, of, of being all in it. It is that I know. Uh, that, that being, uh, a true disciple of Jesus Christ means that you believe him. You believe him when he said that he's going to make all this unfair in this life.

Right. And, and that that's a reality and, and, and whether our, our, our life is feeling really happy and really great, or, or if our life isn't feeling so great that Jesus Christ will make all that is unfair in this life, right through his atoning sacrifice. And, and knowing that and being firmly committed to the covenant path, uh, is, is what I think it means to be all in.

And, and I'm grateful for, for those who have had a tremendous, tremendous influence on, on my life and, and have helped me feel. Those things deeply because there's been many, there's been my mom, there's been my bishop. We haven't spoken about my wife who, who has been an unbelievable source of strength and light in my life.

And, and I wouldn't be. Uh, half of the man I was if I hadn't have married somebody who, who made me better at every turn. But all of those things are, are what it means to me to be all in on the gospel of Jesus Christ. And Morgan, I was great. It's just grateful that you would have me on your, on your program today.

[00:59:10] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time very, very much.

Big thanks to President Shane Reese for joining us on this week's episode. We are also grateful, as always, to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help, and we are grateful to you for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.