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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: Outside of the interview you'll hear here, Sister Bonnie Cordon, former Young Women General President and current President of Southern Virginia University, gave me some advice that I will cherish and continue to ponder in the days to come. She pointed out that in Proverbs 3, verses 5 and 6, it says, Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Plural, paths. She encouraged me to trust that the Lord will always have more for us to do as we entrust our paths to Him. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about women's many varied paths. Some are married and some are not. Some have children and some do not.

For many, these life circumstances are not a choice and they long for something different. More specifically, I've found myself thinking about how, as mothers, some choose to work and others choose to stay home. For some, it doesn't feel as much like a choice as much as what is required of them in a certain season.

But I think we do ourselves and those around us a disservice when we choose to judge another's path rather than trusting that they also are doing the best they can to counsel with the Lord and to trust in Him with their whole hearts. I thought that Sister Cordon, someone who has worked in certain seasons of life and even as a grandmother, has chosen to work and who in other seasons of life chose to stay home with her children, might be a wonderful person for this particular conversation.

Bonnie H. Cordon is the president of Southern Virginia University. We served for seven years as a general officer of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Last five. As President of the Worldwide Young Women's Organization, sister Cordon, has contributed to institutional boards, including the church educational.

System Board of Education, Brigham Young University broadcasting humanitarian xp, the Boy Scouts of America and the Church of Jesus Christ Missionary Executive Council, and has worked with civic government and religious leaders around the world. President Cordon has also served as a mission leader for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Curitiba, Brazil pursued a management career in this.

Software industry and started her own business. She's a mother of four and a proud grandmother of seven.

This is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am honored to have Sister Bonnie Cordon on the line with me today. Sister Cordon, welcome. Thank you. It's a delight to be here. Well, I have been looking forward to this conversation and I hope that as we talk together today that it'll give people a chance to get to know you better, um, because I feel like talking one on one with somebody is very different than, than hearing from someone over the pulpit, which you're someone that we have heard over the pulpit many times, um, and now you're in this new capacity where a number of students will get to know you.

Out from behind that pulpit. Um, but I wanted to start with you were raised on a farm. How, how would you say that that influenced your work ethic and your career decisions since then?

[00:03:38] Bonnie Cordon: Oh, that's a great question. You know, my father, it's interesting when I say raised on the farm, everyone has a mental picture of maybe what that was like.

My father was actually an orthodontist. And we ended up being seven siblings and someone asked him when he decided to buy this little gentleman 80 acre farm. What are you going to grow out there? What are you going to raise? He said children. And so I think he bought the farm really so that we would have a job, just jobs, not not jobs that we actually got really any money from, but just learned how to work.

So it was, he was very intentional about. The experience of growing up. So I, and dad was the best cheerleader, you know, don't you love people in your life that help you realize, Hey, I can do, I can do things and it's okay to fail and try and, and he did that. So he gave me the chickens, which I disliked. I loved him.

First, I think they came when I was either nine, probably about nine. And they were so cute, a bunch of them fluffy, cutest things. I thought this is the greatest opportunity. And then they grew up, Morgan. They grew up and they would bite your ankles and have to clean out the chicken coop. And, but dad let me.

Try and fail. And when I'd fail, he'd carefully instruct again, I'd, I'd forget one time I forgot to give them the oyster shell that we used to give them so that they would make an actual hard shell. So all of the chickens laid soft membrane eggs and I realized. Oops, I have done it wrong at the tender age of 10.

Uh, so it was good. It was a great place to learn how to fail. And I was grateful that my parents didn't have her over me. They, you know, um, and many of you remember the story I told about L. Tom Perry feeding the chickens with me. Yes. You know, my parents didn't say, well, it's dark, so I'll go with you. It was, it's dark and it's your job.

Now I was really grateful that elder Perry decided to be a friend, but that was their, their nature. It's like, Let's just do it. But they were always very supportive. So let me tell you one other little space, you know, some, each of us have maybe personal parables in our life. And I have a parable that has really kind of been formative.

And it was about the farm. When I was 16, I worked at my dad's dental office after. And he was in charge of a big convention over in Hawaii, and I thought, wouldn't it be cool to go to Hawaii? I had never been to Hawaii. And so I badgered him each day, you know, let me go to Hawaii with you. Don't you think it'd be great?

Finally, he told me, he said, you can go. And I was thrilled and he said, but you have to pay for everything, your flight, your hotel, your food. And I thought, okay, I'd save money in the bank. And he said, and then he said, and you can't use any money in the bank. But what my dad did is he always opened windows of possibilities.

And this was what was great about the farm. So he said, you know, we've planted extra sweet corn. If you want to get up early in the morning before school, because it was in the fall. You pick the corn, sell it, I bet you can make enough money to go to Hawaii. And he just believed in every possibility. So I believed in it.

Right. So that morning I woke up at 5, um, cause I had to get up early, put on some old rubber boots, grabbed a burlap. And went out to the fields and picked corn and filled this burlap sack up with corn and realizing I could not carry that corn back to the house. So, I just drug it, you know, and as it banged against itself, I realized I had made it so not a single ear could be sold because it was all damaged.

And I thought, this is the, why did I believe this could happen? That is so silly. And so I went off to school and had vowed I would never pick corn again. Another ear of corn. And that next morning, I accidentally had left my alarm clock on repeat. And so it woke me up at five o'clock, and I rolled over, but I could hear my dad in the kitchen.

I thought, Oh, my goodness. And I knew he was out and I knew why he was going to help me. So I grumpy, very grumpy. I jumped out of bed. Went into the garage, pulled on my rubber boots and got my burlap sack. And he said, What are you going to do with that sack? I said, Well, aren't we going to pick corn? He says, I have a better idea.

And he got the little tractor out that had a little trailer on the back. And he said, I'll drive. You still have to pick, but I'll drive. And I got loads more in the same amount of time as he drove that little tractor with the trailer. And, um, yes, I went to Hawaii and he was true to his word. I had to pay for every penny, but I'll never forget the trip and that parable in my life, that, that parable.

That experience, I've thought greatly of Heavenly Father, about the Lord, you know, it's fascinating, I give the Lord my burlap sack, I come with just a sack, and if I invite Him to be part of my life, He always comes with a trailer. I still have to do, but He always expands it. So that's been a personal parable for the farm, that's been, Kind of one that I remember, just bring your burlap sack, Bonnie, and invite the Lord to come part of it.

So I did a lot more with my Father, and I realized that my Heavenly Father, if I can invite Heaven to help me, it'll go a long ways.

[00:09:40] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, I love that analogy. I think that there's so much to be learned by putting in the work ourselves, which is, is what your dad knew and certainly what Heavenly Father seems to know.

I wanted to ask you in, as we Taught in preparation for this interview you mentioned a question that you received recently About if there was a miracle in your life that was transforming Um, and I I want to hear more about this story So you said that you've realized that serving a mission as a young woman was a miracle Can you tell me a little bit about that?

[00:10:21] Bonnie Cordon: Yeah, I thought the question, it was a young adult asked me, we actually were sitting in the top of a lighthouse. It was several weeks ago. And when he asked me what miracle, it's amazing how the spirit kind of leads you to the response, you know, miracles come lots of different ways. And, and to me, God is a God of miracles.

I love actually, I have a little miracle book. Each day I write down, where is the miracle or where have I seen God's hand today? And they're usually in the small, simple pieces of our lives, which I love. But sometimes miracles come that you don't even know you want. And this was a miracle that came into my life that I had not even thought through nor thought I wanted.

It was from an invitation. My father was called to be a mission leader. And it was going to be during, I was going to leave my senior year of high school. And I was disappointed, because I was going to leave all my friends and All that I knew and we were leaving and as you might know, every mission leader is set apart by an apostle before they go out to be over a mission.

And so my, I went with my dad and Markie Peterson was the apostle at the time. And I walked in to be the fly on the wall in the back to listen. And he said, Bonnie, you should serve a mission as we were introduced. And I said, Oh. Yeah, I'll think about that someday. Then he shook my hand and said, You should serve a mission now.

And I kind of chuckled and I said, Oh, I'm only 17. And then he got quite serious and he said, Bonnie, you should serve a mission now. And I was quite stunned. It was an interesting invitation. Yeah. And I, uh Kind of let that just sink in we went off to the mission and it was about Christmas time and I had gone to the new international school learning how to be, you know, in a new space and, um, my father came in and said, are you going to fill in your papers, fill out your papers?

I said, dad, they are not going to let me. I am 17 years old and he said, You've been, you've received an invitation to have faith in the Lord. And that question was a little bit hard. So I filled it out, not really totally convinced, one, that they would let me go, and two, that I even had a desire at the time.

And I was, it was a February timeframe, I was on a school trip and I, my father got hold of me and he said, your mission calls here. I said, we'll open it up. And he opens it up. And I was to be called to the Portugal Lisbon mission. And I needed to be in the MTC in Provo in two weeks. My goodness. Okay. That is exactly my response when I, oh my goodness.

I had one dress to my name and I would not in two weeks, I still wouldn't have graduated from high school. And I learned an important lesson. Sometimes you just have to go. Sometimes the miracles don't make sense. And the process for the miracle, you don't see. So I went back to Provo, went through the temple, received my endowments, and then walked into the MTC.

Wow. I didn't want a soul to know I hadn't graduated from high school yet. That was so embarrassing for me. And my companion was much, much older than I was, and she was remarkable. But what I love is that the Lord knew And the miracles happen because we just say, yes, I didn't even have much of a burlap sack, um, to use that same analogy as earlier to bring to the Lord and the Lord did not need a 17 year old missionary, but he did know that I needed it.

And so, another miracle, the MTC president happened to be an educator, he called me into his office, and he helped me, um, set up the opportunity to test out of high school classes on P Day. And I remember being overwhelmed, I'm like, I can't even learn Portuguese, let alone test out of high school classes.

But he said, trust in the Lord, lean on him. It'll be okay. So by the time I was out of the MTC, after those two months, I had graduated from high school. In fact, I graduated from Orem high school, which I've never even walked into Orem high school, but, uh, That was, so that was an interesting space, but I've always, you know, I wondered why does the Lord want me to go so early and before I graduated from high school, you know, like the children of Israel, when he parted the Red Sea.

He also made the ground dry. And the Lord's miracles are always much bigger or much more detailed than we can even imagine. So here's the sweet miracle. My older sister, almost five plus years, um, is older than I am, you know, five, five and a half years, you know, serving a mission in Portugal. And so my second month in the mission.

It was her last month in the mission. We were companions and it would never have happened if I would have gotten my call after high school graduation.

[00:16:33] Morgan Jones Pearson: I'm, I'm remembering now, as you're saying that I'm remembering seeing pictures of, or a picture of the two of you as companions, what a neat. What a neat story.

That's amazing.

[00:16:47] Bonnie Cordon: And it was, so when we think of a God of miracles, sometimes he's trying to give us miracles. And in this case, it was for me a miracle. I didn't even really want, right. But it proved to be one of the sweetest miracles and one of those miracles that I draw on all the time.

[00:17:09] Morgan Jones Pearson: Absolutely. Well, it's funny. I think anytime somebody, anytime somebody starts. Sharing a personal experience, it can jog your memory of things that have happened that are similar or along the same vein or things that you learn the same lesson from and certainly, as you were sharing that story, it called to mind a few things for me.

So, then you ended up, not only did you graduate from, from high school, but you went to college after your mission and you. From what I understand, tell me if I'm wrong about this, but toward the end of your education, you began to be concerned that you might have studied the wrong thing. Is that right?

[00:17:57] Bonnie Cordon: That's true. Who does that? Probably a lot of people, actually. Well, that's true. But the study, I loved the study. I studied education, loved it. But when I got into an elementary classroom, it wasn't something that I thought I could see myself doing long term. And I thought, I've got to change my major. I mean, it just this panic.

And so of course, you know, you, you're on your knees and you're Saying, well, now what do I do, you know, and I'm thinking, okay, now I've got to add two more years to my studying and I've got to figure out what I want to do with my life and went to the Lord and lots of prayer. And finally, I got this sweet.

Um, I probably settled down enough to listen and that's the problem I have is I, I bring the Lord with a thousand questions and he's probably like, I've got the answer. If you just say it. Be still and I finally probably got to a point where I was still and he said, just graduate, just graduate. And he said, your, your career will be more joyful than you can imagine.

And it was just a sweet, tender, heavenly father message just for me. And, and I realized sometimes you just have to learn to learn. Just be still. Get out of college, get out of the university. I tell the students at SVU all the time. Sometimes you just have to learn to learn and it's okay to just graduate.

[00:19:31] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, I completely agree with that. I, I studied public relations and so it's always interesting. Um, when I started school, that was when everybody blogs are really popping up and there won't be jobs in journalism and writing. Um, Uh, journalism, that was kind of my passion, but I thought, well, I don't want to study something that you can't get a job in.

And anyway, it's interesting to see how. You really can be taught how to do anything, I think. And, and sometimes a college degree is something that you just need to, to finish to your point. Following your graduation, Sister Cordon, you and your husband were in desperate need of an income. And I heard a story that you shared and I actually told my husband because I thought it was such a great story.

Can you share with listeners how you got your first job out of college?

[00:20:33] Bonnie Cordon: Desperate is a great word. I, I mean, we, my husband was getting his MBA, so there really wasn't income there and we were in the Bay area, which is not cheap now. And I would thought, well, I'll just teach school. That's what I went to.

I can teach school, even though it wasn't my, my preferred, maybe. Profession, but in the California area, they had to take a test in order to teach so that you're in your accreditation work. And the reality is, it wasn't offered until November. And so I had this space at the time that I thought, even if I could get part time jobs, something, and we had given our, I'd put my resume out to people.

And, of course, it was not. Really a strong resume for anything but teaching and a friend said, well, I gave it to the president of this company and in my simple mind, I thought, well, then he wants to talk to me because he has my resume. So the next step is that and he told me to call him. So I thought, okay, he knows I'm calling.

As I called his, his administrative assistant took my call and she said, um, now what's your name? So I gave her my name and she said, you know, you're not on the list, but when you are, we'll call you. And I thought, oh, it just hasn't gotten there yet. So the next day I called. They gave her my name and she said, you know, you're still not on the list, but when, when everything goes through, we'll call you.

And I was so discouraged and I remember getting on my knees and talking to the Lord and the only answer I got was have courage and be patient. And I thought, have courage and be patient. That is not an answer. But the only thing I could do was think, well, I'll call. So the next day, I called again. And she answered.

And this time her voice wasn't quite as friendly. And she said, I will call you when you're on the list. So I prayed some more and the answer still was the same. Be courageous. So I called again and again, and her voice was less and less friendly. Finally, after about two weeks of calling every, you know,

She started warming up and could tell that this girl needs a job. And after three weeks, I remember Collie and Michelle said, Bonnie, your name is on the list.

I thought she was such a dear. I know she probably went into the president and said, okay. I have a person who's called me every day now for three weeks. Well, you have got to see her. So he was wonderful. And anyway, that was kind of the step in the door, the opportunities to work in the software industry.

[00:23:38] Morgan Jones Pearson: So from there, you ended up having, well, first of all, I should say, I love one of my favorite parts of that story is that by the end, you and Michelle were on first name basis. But you ended up having, having a full blown career in software. You, you rose up and, and had this career. You, you ended up working until you had your third child.

Can you talk to me? I feel like this is something that so many women grapple with. And I personally have kind of experienced it just in having had my first child and expecting my second. Is these these conversations? Of do I keep working? Do I not? And there are conversations with the Lord, conversations with your spouse.

Um, can you talk to me about what went into those decisions and those conversations related to working as a young mom for you and your husband and you and the Lord, and then ultimately choosing not to work for a season.

[00:24:47] Bonnie Cordon: I love where you framed all of that because it truly is an opportunity to receive personal.

revelation and inspiration and have a chance to counsel together as a, as husband and wife. Yeah. So from, at first it was out of complete necessity to, you know, make sure we had food on the table and I loved it. I loved what I did. And I did, I, I went from kind of being an individual contributor at the company to being in management Managing 2 different departments and having quite a, we were in a sales arm, quite a large quota for the company, um, meeting with, you know, large companies being out on site and it was truly, um, as far as.

Um, a stretch and out of my comfort zone, but a place I really enjoyed. So I loved it. I, I, um, flourished in that space. I had incredible colleagues, um, and I was busy. We had, uh, at first my kids, I took them to a daycare and then over time I had someone who came into the home during the day who watched the kids.

And it was, It was good. It was good as it could be good. But I think for us, and that's just what I tell people it was for us, the spirit was saying, you might want to do an adjustment. Now, the Bay Area was so expensive for us. There was for us. There was no way that we could have done life on just a single income.

At that point. So my dear husband also felt very anxious about just where our kids were. And, you know, everyone has different kinds of kids. And so, as we thought about it, we, we. Really pondered and realized that we probably needed a little more attention for the kids. And so we got transferred to the Midwest, where it was financially a little bit more doable for 1 income for us.

And I remember on the airplane, I had, I went, it was going on maternity leave because I was about to have my 3rd baby. And, and the company I was working for said, could you just. Just go on maternity leave, and then maybe we can do a remote something, you know, think about it. Don't quit. Well, we could do that, but I was on the airplane.

And my oldest looked at me, said, well, mom, who's going to take care of us in our new home? And I looked at him, I said, I am. And he turned to his brothers and to his brother and said, Tanner, we're in trouble. So I don't know if they had too much confidence in having mom come home. I put my corporate clothes in the back of my closet and I brought up my peanut butter and jelly clothes and, and it was hard.

It, it was really hard for, uh, me to, for that first little bit to stay home. I love my kids, but you know, in the, in my corporate space that I was at, there was always someone who's patting you on the back and telling you, you're doing a good job. My little guys weren't telling me I was doing a good job and it was, it is, to be a mom is not for the faint of heart.

Not as you know, you know that and then we realized for them for our kids and and their personalities and their season of life that it was going to work to have one of us. At home and I kind of wanted the opportunity, you know, my husband is the best cheerleader He's not one that says i've got to do it or he's got to do it We kind of counseled together and I thought I actually want to do this even though it was the hardest thing for me I in fact, I have a dear friend.

Her name is At Nettie Francis and and she's quite a writer and she's had 10 kids, one of the little writings that she wrote up. She it's called just a mom and I thought it was so interesting that the 1st part just went off. It's morning time and I'm feeling like. Just a mom for the umpteenth time this week, I opened the cupboard and I see oatmeal again.

And she goes through the whole process in this writing of, you know, how many millions of peanut butter sandwiches has she made and how many diapers she's changed. But I love that she says she talks about a glorious truth has unfolded in her life that she says, by the time the kids have eaten breakfast, they're happy chatter.

And eager smiles have miraculously lifted my spirits. Their hugs, their shared concerns, their innocent conversations carry me up and over the mountain of motherhood. And then she says, somehow the very souls that increased my burden have actually resolved it. In fact, by the time they walk back through the door that afternoon after school, they are literally saviors.

And then she goes on, it's a wonderful little write up about motherhood that I've kind of cherished. So it was a season for me to learn how to take all those skills that I had learned in the corporate world and realized that they were just Expanded and enhanced as I really became that full time, you know, had the opportunity full time to be at home, but it was and it was a continual learning experience.

[00:30:35] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love what you, the thing that you've read by your friend, because. It's amazing to me some mornings I wake up and i'm pregnant right now. So some mornings it's like I just feel like I have to rally so much to like get up out of bed But to the point of what your friend wrote You find yourself like the very thing that makes it hard to get out of bed is the thing that makes you So happy throughout the day and I think that that's that's amazing

[00:31:07] Bonnie Cordon: Yeah, I and I think that's the opportunity that we have as Humans as women, as.

Is the gathering together our hearts and our souls and those, especially the places where we live so closely with people and that's our family. I let me just read this other little part of her thing. She says their purposeful living kills me. Their souls are my souls. Their accomplishments of the day are my victories, their friendships and kindness have filled my bucket.

This reality is surprising and our shared existence is exhilarating. I And I think, you know, we look at women and we look at men and we say, what is leadership? What is power? And it's really influence. And I don't know if I've ever had more influence really as in depth influence than when I have an opportunity to mother, whether that be at home or in a calling where you can really sit knee to knee and have an experience together.

[00:32:12] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's beautiful. And so, so well said. So then at what point, Sister Cordon, did you decide to go back to work?

[00:32:22] Bonnie Cordon: Well, I, I am always a curious person. And we ended up moving across country back to the West, and the kids were a little bit older. And so I thought I would start up a little business, and I did.

But, you know, with the kids getting older, I thought I'd have more time. The only challenge was I had a little less time. They were involved in so many things. And then I got involved in so many things because they were involved in so many things. So I did that little business probably only about 18 months, maybe two years.

And. The taxes actually ended up just eating me alive. And I thought, you know what, I'm tired of that. So I closed it down and, but it was such a great space for me just to have a little bit of freedom and say, I do love creating. And so I started looking for spaces. They may not have been ones that someone gave me a paycheck, but then I realized I'm always, you know, Outside the home working.

So I was involved with the community councils. I was involved with the schools, places that I felt I could have an influence because people matter and, and my kids mattered, but I also wanted to be in spaces in part of the conversations that I felt were important.

[00:33:47] Morgan Jones Pearson: Right. Well, and I and I think that and this is something I know I mentioned to you before we got started, but I've observed with friends and family that have kind of grappled with these decisions that we were talking about.

I think people need different things for fulfillment and, and, you know, So there's obviously the financial conversation that goes into choosing to work as a as a mother, but there's also this conversation of You know, what does fill your bucket? How do you feel? uh fulfillment and and certainly being At home gives a certain type of fulfillment, but i've i've seen where some friends really need Some activity outside the home to to be the best mom that they can be And I think that this is something that so many young moms in the church in particular wrestle with because They they really want to be good moms But they also feel that desire to do something outside the home whether it is working or like you said Contributing within their community sister cordon.

What would be I have a question that's kind of twofold One is what would be your advice to a young working mother? And then what would you say to a mom that has chosen to stay home despite having dreams of making? significant contributions outside of the home

[00:35:19] Bonnie Cordon: Well, that is twofold. Okay, let's take two sides of the coin.

Yeah, let's take the mom that's um, I think, you know, it's busy. It is busy, but it's busy when you stay home too. You know, I, I think the, I think with both of them, first of all, I would say, um, Trust in the Lord with all thy heart. Now, that's an interesting thing because if you're going to give your heart to the Lord, that's easier said than maybe doing a heart attack on a door.

There's something required of us. And so I think when I was a working mom, especially those simple things, because I, you know, your time is stretched and you're running to, I was dropping off little boys at the, You know, at daycare, getting to work, at lunch, I would go have primary presidency meeting at my counselor's house, run back to my job, you know, so you're just kind of in this run mode.

I needed a spot to be still and then enjoy the journey. Breathe in the opportunity to learn and to grow and to make a difference with your colleagues. And then when you're home, be home. I think you just be present. When I was at lunch having my primary presidency meeting, I was present. At the primary presidency meeting, you can't balance your life.

There's no, I don't think, I think Elder Bednar's spot on. I don't think there's a balance, but be present wherever you are and then rely on the Lord. Because that lean not to your own understanding, I think is really takes courage, takes courage to, and that's where the mission. Was such an important part.

It didn't make sense for me to go on a mission early. And so I've realized that a lot of things the Lord's going to have us do in our life don't make sense, but if we follow what he he's inspiring us to do. We're okay.

[00:37:21] Morgan Jones Pearson: Such good advice. I think it's interesting hearing your answer about balance. Every time that I solicit questions from friends of people that I'm going to be interviewing, a lot of times that question of balance comes up and I Always hesitate now to ask it because everybody that I've asked that question to has said what you said, like, I don't think there is such a thing as balance.

I think that the, the secret is kind of that idea of being present. Um, okay. So that, that would be your advice to that one. Okay. The working mom to the working mom

[00:38:05] Bonnie Cordon: now, to someone who's home and has a desire, has always wanted to do, start a business or. Be in the working or has that desire and thinks, Oh, I'm just giving up.

There are seasons in our life. And I think we have to realize that there's no season can go by. I mean, so if you feel like you, you need to be home, there's lots of reasons why we need to do that. There will be a season to do other things. And so look for those seasons, but still have, find joy in the journey.

I, my mother was a great example. She was home. She had seven kids. Um, and she was a busy mom, but I remember always coming home and this is back in the old days, she had a cassette tape that was, she had, um, a subscription that she had gotten of just knowledge and they were of good books and a science, this, or, um, I don't know, they were just random and she'd have them playing throughout the house when we'd get home.

And she was always learning. So we have so many more opportunities as women to. Be part of a bigger thing. I think the key is the same trust in the Lord with all your heart. Don't lean to maybe the counsel of everyone else. Really lean to what the Lord is, is trying to tell you. The number one question that I received all over the world when I traveled the world was, how do I know when the Lord's speaking?

How, how do you understand more about revelation? And I was with some young adults about two weeks ago, and there was about 26 little small sessions that we had. As we set up in a big lighthouse. So 26 different groups came up and it was just a Q and A. I said, you can ask anything. And the number one question for these young adults was something to do with, how do I know that I'm receiving impressions from heaven?

And I think that's the same. I think we're always seeking to understand the Lord's will, but the reality is he speaks our language. He speaks He speaks Morgan, and it's comforting to know that as we grow and mature, he can speak to us in lots of different ways. I mean, I think of the prophet, the prophet's vocabulary is big.

Bonnie's vocabulary may be a lot smaller. So the Lord speaks in the small vocabulary of Bonnie when he needs to speak with me.

[00:40:47] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that so much. I Elder Bednar, I believe, has said that that is the most common question that he gets when he does these Q and A's as well. And I think it's something that all of us just wrestle with so much is how do I know if it's me or the spirit?

And I think that we should have more confidence in Our ability to receive revelation and to recognize it as such, but I think we, we tend to get in our heads so much. So I love what you said about it. The spirit speaks and in our own language, just recording you and your husband have since raising your, your kids, led a mission together.

Following your mission, you were called to be the Young Women General President, which is when many of us got to know you and were introduced to you. How would you say that your professional life, that you can see now that your professional life prepared you for the callings that you have served in in the church?

[00:41:52] Bonnie Cordon: Okay, that's a fabulous question. When I think of, I wouldn't say it's just my professional life. I would have said it's just the collecting the eggs on the farm helped prepare. The picking corn helped me prepare the walking down the street of Portugal with my companion, help me prepare, you know, sitting in a desk in BYU.

I just think it's a cumulative opportunities to learn to grow and grasp on to experiences. I think many times we think, well, I want an experience like that or like my neighbor and really the Lord's, you know, tailor making experiences. I always. I really feel that the spirit will never overwhelm us. We overwhelm ourselves, but he gives us line upon line.

And so the opportunity to be a mission leader was, was a sweet experience. But let me just give you a line upon line. Um, my, my husband. Went to a Spanish speaking mission when he was called to be the mission president. President Irene said, I have a mission call for you. And he said, you've been called to preside over a Portuguese speaking mission.

And the room went silent. Finally, I kind of raised my hand and he said, I said, Preston, Derek does not speak Portuguese. And he looked at me and he said, Sister Cordon, we know. Oh, yeah, that's right. But he'll learn. And so it's interesting how the Lord, I knew Portuguese. So when I flew down to Brazil, Derek's language was enhanced.

He learned that language pretty fast. But those few, probably the first two months when he was learning Portuguese, he had to rely a little bit on my Portuguese. And so you see how the Lord prepares a way. It's not necessarily the way, but he does prepare a way. So that was a real blessing. And then learning how to work within that church experience in the mission.

Helped a lot as my call to, as a young woman, general president, to be able to sit in councils, to be able to understand where the focus was for the church. And so it was a blessing that the Lord allowed me. In fact, as you might know, I was. Called to be in the primary general presidency for two years. And I worked with sister Joy Jones and that was the best training ground for my call to be the young woman, general president.

So the Lord really does prepare, um, online. Sometimes I wish he'd give us paragraph upon paragraph, but it's usually line upon line.

[00:44:52] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, I think it's interesting to, You know, I, I certainly can look back in my own life, but I love looking at other people's lives and being like, oh, and that prepared them for this and this prepared them for that.

Um, and, and I feel like you've illustrated that so well for us. Most recently, you accepted an appointment as president of Southern Virginia University, a place that has a special place in my heart, and I wondered how you would say that all of these experiences that we've talked about have prepared you to lead a university.

And also, I'm kind of curious how this came to be you, you coming to Southern Virginia. I feel like that's a slam dunk.

[00:45:40] Bonnie Cordon: Oh. There you get it. The Lord is a God of miracles and a God of surprises, big surprises. The opportunity to be the Young Women General President really was a joy because I had the best counselors.

And any time in life that you have the help, it just, you Is a joy. So that was wonderful. And as our time was ending, I was so excited for sister Freeman and her counselors. They were good. We were, you know, the world, the work was moving forward and I had decided that I was going to, um, buy an ICONSKI pass.

And ski all winter, take my little grandchildren out of school and ski with them. And Derek and I were going to ski every Saturday. So we had this, this plan. I was going to clean all my closets for the last seven years. Anyone says, well, where should we put this? I'd say, put it in the closet. So I just had this vision of what we were doing this next year.

And. They, Southern Virginia University was looking for a president and they sent me an email and asked if I was interested and I'm a curious person. And as you might know, I sat on the board of education for the CES schools while I was the young woman general president. And it was fascinating for me to see how each president of the CES higher institutions did things differently.

So I said, Oh, I'm happy to talk. I wanted to see what they were doing at their university. And then they asked if I would come out. And as we were flying out there, Derek said, no, we're not doing this right. And I said, no, no, I have no interest at all. And as we were out there, I was. amazed at the young adults that were studying there.

The professors were, um, by or none, the best professors I had ever, I sat in some of the classes and I was like, wow, I would love to study here. And the personal touch. And then we Went to a soccer game, the young, and it was a young women's soccer, or a women's soccer game, and they won, and it was just such an amazing place that I was ready to fly out, and I was on my knees saying my morning prayers, and I remember asking Lord to bless this university, and it's been a really remarkable experience, and then an impression came that said, Tom Mildon repair.

I thought I have no interest in building and repairing anything. Um, and so I kind of left and took it out of my mind and then they came back and offered me the position. And I just said, I've got to, I've got to look into this 1st. So it took me a while before I actually said, yes, but that's 1 of those things when I've learned.

It's like the mission I had no interest. Yeah. And going on a mission. And it was one of those sweet miracles I never knew I needed. And Southern Virginia university has been a sweet miracle that I never knew I needed. And so I just think it's great. I'm glad that we have a heavenly father. That's a God of miracles because it truly has changed my perspective.

But, you know, with all of whatever I do, there's one little statement. That I think has always kind of put things in perspective and, and you've heard it, but there's that statement that says, bless, not impress. And as we walk through life, if we just walk into any situation and think, I'm just here to bless, do whatever I can and not worry about impressing anybody.

It takes a lot of pressure, a lot of, um, anxiety out of the situation and, um, we can kind of see it. through the Lord's eyes and see what the Savior would like us to do in that situation. And so as I came to Southern Virginia University, I walked in thinking, I'm just here to bless. Obviously, I had nothing to impress.

I mean, I came, but, um, it's, it truly has been a real blessing to see what the Lord is doing and just be a small drop of water in his In his big work, um, and I would, I guess the key is to always say yes, you know, when they give me a ministering assignment, I think, say yes, because can you imagine the friend I would miss out on if I didn't say yes and do it?

And, um, so I just, I'm always intrigued with what the Lord does with our lives if we are willing, because agency is a big He honors our agency and he will be as in our lives as much as we want him, or as little, depending on what we would like. And, uh, so that's kind of how that whole story unfolded.

[00:50:55] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I, that phrase, Less, uh, rather than impress.

I, um, with this podcast, a lot of times people will say, well, do you get nervous for the interviews? And, and to be honest, I don't, but it's not because I come in thinking that I'm so great, but instead I have found that if I just focus on the other person and trying to make them feel comfortable, then I don't have time to get nervous.

And so I think it's so interesting how, when we kind of turn. Outward it actually makes everything better for us as well I imagine sister cordon that a lot of your grandkids are not in virginia. Is that right?

[00:51:38] Bonnie Cordon: yeah, that's the one disappointment on this and but Thank goodness. Sometimes the school's business brings me back to utah and and that's Like right now, it's just always a blessing Um, but that's the thing I you know, sometimes the lord asks us to do things that maybe wouldn't You That aren't convenient, right?

And sometimes they're kind of hard or and you think well the Lord always wants us to Grow and to expand and I think for me I know President Nelson said when he was talking about God He says in the absence of experiences with God one can doubt the existence of God So put yourself in a position to begin having experiences with him Hmm And so I always think, would this invitation help me know, to know God?

And that's what the miracle, the best miracle for me was the invitation from Markie Peterson to say, go serve a mission. It made no sense. It was out of my comfort zone. I was not qualified. Not like our missionaries today. But the Lord wants to be in our lives, and so he keeps putting me in very uncomfortable situations so that I learn, learn to trust him because he know, because he knows that I can't do it.

Yeah. Uh, so I just don't, you just love a heavenly Father that loves us that much, that can be so personal with each one of us.

[00:53:21] Morgan Jones Pearson: Absolutely. And, and I, I hope that everybody listening can kind of think of their own journey and the opportunities that the Lord's given them to say yes and, and to bring what they have to offer and, and recognize that he's able to make more out of it.

My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

[00:53:47] Bonnie Cordon: To be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ is trust in the Lord with all our heart. And not lean to my own understanding that's being all in and giving him the credit and i'm really allowing him To lead my path with full confidence that he loves me

[00:54:12] Morgan Jones Pearson: that scripture my dad helped me memorize that scripture as a little girl and it has always been one of my Absolute favorites because I think it really is like the secret to life.

So sister Cordon. Thank you so much This has been such a treat to get to know you better and to learn from you And I just appreciate you taking the time more than you know

[00:54:31] Bonnie Cordon: Well, it's been a delight and All the best with the pregnancy, all the best with your cute little one year old and just all the navigating, all the news, just, I hope you breathe in all the joy, curiosity and awe that comes with life.

Thank you.

[00:54:55] Morgan Jones Pearson: We are so grateful to Bonnie Cordon for joining us on today's episode. As always, a big thank you to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode and thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.