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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: The Kansas City Chiefs have competed in four of the last five Super Bowls and have won three of the four. Their leader, head coach Andy Reid, has become known for encouraging his players to be themselves, to show their personality, and in the process he has shown his. When given the opportunity, he has also shared the things most important to him, and among those is his faith as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Andy Reid was hired as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs in 2013. Prior to his time with the Chiefs, he was the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles from 1999 to 2012. He is the only head coach in NFL history who has led two franchises to 100 victories. He played college football for BYU under coach LaVell Edwards, who recognized in Reid an ability to approach the game of football analytically and encouraged the young player to become a coach.
Have you thought about being a coach? He asked Reid. You'd be a good one. Turns out Reid is better than good. He's one of the best of all time, currently the fourth winningest coach. NFL history.
This is all in an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am honored to have coach Andy Reid on the line with me today. Coach Reid, welcome.
[00:01:28] Andy Reid: Thank you, Morgan, for having me.
[00:01:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I have wanted to interview you coach Reid for a long time.
I'm a bit of a sports junkie. Anybody that listens to this podcast will know that I get really excited anytime I get to interview anybody that has anything to do with sports. But I wanted to start out with kind of your experience in college at BYU. You've talked many times about the influence coach LaVell Edwards had on you.
You were obviously really young when you were coached by LaVell. But I wondered, what have been the most lasting parts of him that have become a part of who you are?
[00:02:05] Andy Reid: Yeah, coach Edwards was a great influence in my life, especially in my football life. I always joke that he really liked my wife Tammy better than he did me.
So he kind of helped me along so I'd be able to hang with her. But the thing he taught me was just the people part of it. Coach was a great X and O guy. He was really a defensive coach that was coaching on the offensive side of the ball, uh, and is known for that, the passing game, but he was so good with players and people, he had a calm demeanor, great sense of humor, but never, never came across that way until you had a chance to talk to him.
He looked very stoic all the time. I've probably taken that part with me, just how to handle people. And the best way from his teachings.
[00:02:53] Morgan Jones Pearson: He is without a doubt, a legend, and I'm jealous. I, I feel like any, anytime you have an opportunity to be coached by someone like him, you're kind of changed forever. And my impression is that you definitely have inherited some of those traits as I read some things that some of your players have said about you.
Also, I found it interesting when you were at BYU, you simultaneously played on the football team and wrote articles about the football team for the Provo Daily Herald. And I thought it was interesting. One reporter said that because of this, you know how a story needs to be written. And then you said, my players, they'll probably tell you I'm a storyteller.
My creativity comes out a little bit, whether calling play plays or in the messages that I don't want to be stale or repeat. I wondered, Coach Reid, why is creativity and understanding what the story is important as you try to inspire your players?
[00:03:52] Andy Reid: Yeah, listen, I, I think life is a story in itself and every part of it is a story.
So I, as I get older, I probably tell too many stories to my guys in particular in our position meeting. So, but you have all these great experiences and some of them, you know, That you can share with people are good teaching tools. And so we all know we're here to teach and I'm in that profession where I am teaching literally every day.
And so a good story breaks up the monotony of the lesson and I'll share things with the guys. And I think that that helps guys. maintain their focus on the subject that you're talking about. It gives them a good laugh at times to break up again, uh, the boredom of having to sit there and learn all new plays.
And it ends up being a good tool, I think.
[00:04:48] Morgan Jones Pearson: Let me ask you this kind of as a follow up to that, Coach Reid. I am curious, you coach grown men, how is that different as, as these players get older, does it become trickier to coach people as they get older or is it easier?
[00:05:05] Andy Reid: I'll tell you where it's the trickiest is when you've had a guy for 10 years and they've heard, they've heard the same story that you want to make sure you change those up the best way you possibly can and add a little zip into the lesson.
So there's only so many times they can hear you install 22ZN or tell them that practice is at 1115 or, you know, and without them just turning you off. So I always tell the guys, I said, listen, if I can't get it on a three by five card, you're not going to hear it. I try to keep the meetings short and sweet.
So that 10 year vet doesn't have a stale thought coming at him and we can kind of keep it a little bit intriguing for him
[00:05:46] Morgan Jones Pearson: for sure. One thing that you have talked about with your players is that that's something that's very important to you is that people let their personality show. I think you're a good example of that coach read in your interviews.
I feel like you do a good job of letting people see a little bit of your personality. Why would you say that that's important on a team?
[00:06:10] Andy Reid: Well, first of all, we all have different personalities and that is what makes the world go round. It's, uh, uh, there's so many unique people out there. And then on top of that, if you're pretending to be something that you're not, you're not going to be you.
And, and that's, uh, that's a simple, that's very simple to say, but, uh, people will try to mimic or imitate. Somebody that they've met along the way to think that makes them greater. No, that's not it. Have the confidence in yourself to, this is who I am. This is what I am, put it out there. And then I think performance follows right in that.
Let's not try to all be. Pat Mahomes, let's be ourselves and maybe it's not quite as good on the football field as Pat Mahomes, but it fits in. It's another piece of the puzzle and it's going to be consistent. You're going to be able to do that day in and day out as opposed to being somebody else where it's there's going to be this up and down and consistency.
Let's see what you are. Let's put it out there. We'll. Take you all your strengths and we'll utilize those and we'll keep working on the weaknesses, but be you
[00:07:20] Morgan Jones Pearson: speaking of Patrick Mahomes. When I was preparing for this interview, I read something where he said, he said, basically exactly what you said, like, you let him be himself and that he feels like that he wouldn't be the player that he is.
If you hadn't been his NFL coach, why is . His personality, something that makes him great. How, how have you kind of tapped into that?
[00:07:46] Andy Reid: Yeah. So he literally wants to be great every day. I mean, he says it when he gets in the huddle every day and it's not something that he's just saying, I mean, he actually means it as great for young people to see that there's a guy that is blessed with athletic ability, but he's going to try to maximize.
That part of it every day. He also does the same thing as a person. He's a father and he wants to be a great father. He wants to be a great husband. And so he's always searching those things out and, uh, trying to see what he can do better in the areas of that family and in football. So he's a pleasure to be around.
You can give him something on the football field. Now, this sounds easy. But you can give him something on the football field in practice, and he'll actually try it in a live situation in a game. And so that tells you as great as he is, he wants one more nugget to be greater than he already is. He's got a trust there.
So it's a unique quality to have, but one that we can all. Take a little piece of and our, you know, into our lives here.
[00:08:57] Morgan Jones Pearson: Absolutely. I'm curious with guys like Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce that people are so familiar with. As you approach your coaching, which aspects of your approach to coaching are influenced by your faith?
[00:09:16] Andy Reid: Sure. I think really everything is influenced by my faith. I mean, we set everything up here, just like you have at church. So we're going to have personal meetings with the players, one on ones, we're going to have team meetings with the players, we're going to make sure you have meetings with the heads of the, you know, the coaches, and I make sure that I, I have all of that outlined.
I have a tight schedule for them. So when they're here, there's not a lot of wasted time for coaches or players. We get in, we get out, we learn and we go forward. And then we try to live some of these principles as coaches and players. We try to live some of these. Once we leave the building, there's so many good things that happen here that I think the guys go out and they, they try their best.
Uh, to work things out. And then Tammy, my wife is also involved. So she's kind of everybody's mother and that leads another aspect to it. She's a great example to the coaches, wives, to the players, wives, to the players. She travels with our team on away games. And so they get that flavor. And they get to see that I have a good relationship with my spouse and I trust her and all of those little things that you don't really have to talk about.
They just, they show up that way.
[00:10:42] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah. I think anybody that's, that's watched a game has noticed the way that you greet Tammy after the games. I'm curious, what is it about her that you feel like is an asset in your life? And why is it important to you to involve her so much in what you do?
[00:11:02] Andy Reid: You know, she's the head coach of the head coach.
She'll tell you that. Now, she, she's got a great feel for it and she enjoys it. She's got that kind of a personality where maybe I'm a little drier. Uh, she's very bubbly and she's everybody's best friend. She gets out and makes people feel comfortable that way. And, and part of it, you know, she unites and that's a, you know, that's a big thing.
[00:11:27] Morgan Jones Pearson: I wondered, I wanted to ask you this. I was talking to Carly Ellett, whose husband Porter is one of your assistants and they've been on all in previously. And I was asking her, I was like, what do I need to make sure that I ask her? Coach Reid, and she mentioned that, you know, being a coach in professional sports is not something that increases the success percentage wise of someone's marriage.
And she said, you know, the reads have been through other things personally that also would impact the likelihood of, of longterm success in a marriage. And yet they have an incredibly strong marriage. And if you ask them, they'll tell you that it's the result of making. The gospel of priority in their lives.
Um, why would you say that that has been of utmost importance for you and Tammy? And how has that blessed your life and your marriage? Yeah,
[00:12:21] Andy Reid: well, when you're, when you read the Book of Mormon or the scriptures, period, the, People have had ups and downs, and people in leadership positions have had ups and downs.
That's part of life. I think we all have issues. Somewhere along the line, you're going to have issues. Some are greater than others, but you're going to have these, these hurdles that you've got to come over. And so we, we bank on our faith to get us through that. You know, we've been blessed to have children and, and grandchildren.
And we try to, The best we can lead by example, but also leading by example means that you're following Christ's teachings. And, you know, what a great example He was for us. All the trials and tribulations that He went through. Joseph Smith, the trials and tribulations that he went through, these are great examples for us.
And then we just hang on to that iron rod because that son of a gun can, uh, you know, it can be difficult at times, but you hang on and you work your way through these things and bank on your faith and then bank on your relationship with your spouse. And, you know, that's, that's, what way are you going to take this?
Are you going to take it With a heavy heart where you go into a shell and don't communicate, are you going to open things up, be sensitive to the, the person that you're, you're married to, and then, and be able to share in a Christlike manner. And I think, you know, that's, that's what's helped us through some of these things in life here.
[00:13:52] Morgan Jones Pearson: Carly has told me that you and Tammy have given her and Porter some really great advice over time. Um, and I know that they aren't the only ones that are Latter day Saints that are within your organization. You have Alex Whittingham and his wife. And the Bushman's within, within the organization. And I'm curious when you are talking to them, especially because you have a shared faith, what are some of the most important things that you try to, to instill in them that maybe they'll be able to carry throughout their careers, the way that you've carried the things that LaVell instilled in you?
[00:14:34] Andy Reid: Yeah, you, you know, you can't do everything. So maybe the golf game is put aside for a few years. So the family, faith and football takes up a lot of time. And that's, uh, that's what's involved there, but make sure that family is first, uh, family and faith become a head of football. And, uh, that's sometimes easier said than done, but let's not forget about those things.
So if you've got, Even if you can't get to one of your kid's events, make sure they know that you're part of that. And so those, those little things, let's not forget about that part. As crazy as this world is that we're living in this football world, as much time as it takes to do it, let's not forget about those other two things and kind of put those as priorities.
[00:15:25] Morgan Jones Pearson: Absolutely. I completely agree. Speaking of that, I know that that football can be kind of a rough environment. I know a friend of mine wrote a book about the New England Patriots and the book had a good amount of profanity in it. And he said, you know, if I were to take out the profanity, like, It wouldn't be authentic.
It would not be at all the way that people talk within this world. And so I wondered for you, how do you maintain the spirit in your life being in an environment where there can be rough language, where there's music that maybe doesn't invite the spirit. Sometimes people that are focused on themselves or money.
Um, how do you, how do you kind of invite the spirit into your life and seek to keep it with you?
[00:16:16] Andy Reid: Yeah, Morgan, we're just a microcosm of life and the world really in our own little space here. Right. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it's any different in other businesses. You're going to have to deal with those.
And I just take them as words. I mean, I don't, I try to lead by example there. And so with that, guys will watch their language around me. I'm, I'm hard on about the music cause you know, the music can be a little rough there. So, but if you want to listen to it, you're a grown man, put, put a headset on, you know, and listen to it with, with your headphones and go that direction. If you're going to play it and for the team, play stuff that there's no profanity in, you know, or, or slangs in there. So I, I try to be an example of that the best I can. I try to be an example to it. I mean, we're here to teach and so everything around you is not going to be perfect in the way you want it.
And right now with so much stress in the world, in our teachings of our about uniting, joining together. Uh, bringing each other together, different face and different races. Let's come together and do this in unison the best we can. So we try to do that here. We say, try not to hit those, those key things that start wars. In the football world, you're dealing with men in that locker room. I mean, it's, we, we haven't had that influx of ladies that are playing the game. So these are men in there and. The religion part of it, women part of it, you know, those have created wars over to money. Those all create, those are triggers that have created wars over time and so, and conflict.
And so let's, let's not talk about that. If the subject comes up, you can go ahead and talk about it. You know, if it's religion, talk about it. If somebody comes to you and asks you what your faith is, let's not hammer that home. Let's not talk the politics and hammer that home. Let's not get in a conflict over a girlfriend or, or, or whatever, what a wife said, or, you know, that let's not get into that, let's not go there.
And, and handle ourselves, uh, let's handle ourselves the, um, the right way as a team where we can be together for eight months out of the year and, and have some continuity, some love and, and, and teamwork, you know, literal teamwork where we can work together to try to reach, reach our goals.
[00:19:03] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah, I love that.
I love that example. You have talked about how you and your staff, because there are multiple members of the church within the Chiefs organization, that you try to have a sacrament meeting on the days that you have games. And so you work incredibly long days. You have hours away from, from church, sometimes on Sundays.
Can you talk a little bit about how you've approached Sabbath worship, especially with those other members of the church that are on your staff?
[00:19:38] Andy Reid: Yeah, well, my hat goes off to our bishops. We've always had phenomenal bishops since I've Been in this crazy NFL thing, so that have been willing to, to work with us and, and whether we run up to church, if we have a afternoon game or a night game, we try to, uh, if we can run up to church, if not, then we do a sacrament meeting amongst ourselves and the, with the permission of our bishops.
So that's, that's worked out. Well, for us, so we're, we're never missing sacrament one way or another. We're getting to a sacrament meeting and, uh, it might be with three people or four people, but we're going to make the thing work and players, coach, you know, coaches, we've had an influx over the years of, of players and coaches that have worked here. My son's actually with us too. And he's a return missionary and works in our strength department. So we have, yeah, we have, uh, a good nucleus there and, and, uh, decent turnout and that, you know, it works out. okay for us.
[00:20:41] Morgan Jones Pearson: I know you even last year at the Super Bowl blessed Porter and Carly's baby before the Super Bowl, which I thought was pretty cool.
Do you ever have players that are not of our faith join in that worship at all?
[00:20:58] Andy Reid: Yeah, you know, I, I can't, you know, I can't remember Porter would be able to tell you. There were so many people there. Uh, when you get to the Super Bowl, now you're, I mean, you're talking about a hundred plus people, family members and everybody else come to this thing.
So there might've been a player or two that snuck in there. I, I didn't take, I didn't take attendance. I probably said, you weren't out there counting up. No, I didn't do that, but there, there could have been Porter would have known better.
[00:21:25] Morgan Jones Pearson: How do I wondered as I was thinking about your team and, and kind of having this small conglomerate of members, wondering how people of other faiths that are on the team and observing like, oh, wow, there are a lot of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints here.
Do they ever ask about our faith? Do they? Do you think that is interesting to them?
[00:21:55] Andy Reid: Yeah, listen, I've had a couple of people talk to me about it over the years. I mean, somebody is always asking something. Chad Lewis was, was a phenomenal example. Uh, when I was in Philadelphia, uh, Chad was my tight end. He was an All Pro tight end and he, he speaks fluent Mandarin.
And so the guys have all these tattoos in Mandarin and Chad would mess with them with the tattoos. Hey, what do you think that means? And then he. Show him that he can speak Chinese. And they, they go, Oh, and you say that doesn't really mean what you think. I mean, you might want to have that check, but what it did, it allowed him into the mix and he was, he was a team captain.
He was all those things. And, and if you know, Chad, I mean, he, he's special. So. His example to the guys and, uh, was, was great. And they all knew that he was the teacher's pet. I mean, he was my favorite guy and, and we got away with it. Nobody ever said anything. Everybody respected it. And just a phenomenal example to those people in there and then phenomenal example to the other members that we had in the, in the locker room as the years went on, so we were able to kind of pass things, pass things on, on how to handle yourself in that, in that locker room with, you know, a lot of different, uh, veins in there of, of people.
[00:23:13] Morgan Jones Pearson: It's pretty cool. I didn't realize, I'm just putting two and two together that now you coach his son in law, right?
[00:23:19] Andy Reid: Yeah, yeah. Matt Bushman's his son in law. Yeah. That's pretty cool.
[00:23:25] Morgan Jones Pearson: So there was a lot of attention on your team all season as a result of Travis Kelce's relationship with Taylor Swift, but no moment in the entire season.
I feel like got more attention than the clip of Travis Kelce getting up in your face during the Super Bowl. And I thought it was, Interesting to read kind of the responses to that and, and the way that you responded and you were praised by many people, including Tom Brady for the way that you responded to that in that moment.
I read an article in the Deseret News that kind of hypothesized that your faith may have played a role in the way that you responded. You mentioned earlier President Nelson's kind of call for unity, and this article was like, well, He sustains a prophet who's teaching us to be peacemakers. So I wondered was, do you feel like any part of your response was influenced by what you believe as a member of the church in that moment?
[00:24:25] Andy Reid: Yeah, well, it was, I didn't see him coming, so I've got to put that in there. I'm not as agile as I used to be. So, but. Emotions are high and, and I hammer him on just the fact that we kind of go like he goes, our team goes like he goes. So his emotions become very important. Well, I took him out of the game at a spot where he thought he should be in the game.
And he wants to be in every play, but he's older. And so I've had to work with him on this and, uh, not always willingly. Does he want to come out of the game? He wants to be in there every snap, especially the Super Bowl. But I took him out on the particular play and then we fumbled the ball. So he just wanted to make sure that I knew that he was fired up and ready to go.
And like I said, I'm, I'm very hard on him about that. Sometimes he can be hard on himself and I try not to allow him to do that. And I, I get after him a little bit. And so he got after me for getting after him. And that's what we got. And I don't hold that against him. I love, I love his energy, what he brings to the table.
Uh, it wasn't a position where you retaliate because I kind of had the knowledge of what he is and where he was going with it. It wasn't malicious. That's not what it was. Two seconds later, he's like hugging me, telling me, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. You know, that whole deal, but that's him. That's him. That's what makes him great. So I, I try not to disrupt, uh, that part of it. And I want him to have that high octane. Is that part of the gospel? I, it probably is part of it. The retaliation part that just wasn't the place to do that. And so there's a point where. You just kind of calm things down and you become the teacher.
And I think that would be the part that comes through just living our faith the way we do. You know, that's a, that's a big difference in certain situations, in certain faiths, where we actually live what, what we learn every day. Through the gospel. So one advantage of staying close to the gospel is that that it's not a pretend thing Well, this is how this is how we've been trained to handle things the best you can in a Christlike manner
[00:26:41] Morgan Jones Pearson: I completely agree kind of as a follow up to that with all the attention that your team got this season Your games were widely watched How did you keep them focused on what the most important thing was?
Because obviously you did a good job of that. You you won the Super Bowl.
[00:27:02] Andy Reid: Yeah. So we have a word and that I throw up on the wall every year and this year was united. I mean, which just kind of fit into everything. It was, it was a good word to have. And I felt like we needed to be that and come together.
We had a lot of, Moving parts, influx of new players, and I just thought that with this influx that not that you don't have it every year, it just seemed like there was more this year and to make sure everybody pulled together and the guys kept referencing that when we were going through that highs and lows, there was a five game period there where we were all over the place and one week we were good, the next week we weren't, and they just pulled together at that time during the toughest time.
I think that'll be the thing. Right. It probably stands out the most to me about this team was working through that time pulling together being united and then for a cause. And that was to, to win the Super Bowl. And they, they really focused in. I didn't have to do much because of the leadership in the locker room with Travis and, and.
Patrick Mahomes and Chris Jones and all these guys were, were just tremendous leaders, uh, Bolton on the defensive side or middle linebacker. All of these guys were great with, with the leadership part of it. And they're spreading the message that they've heard for the years that they've been here and they believe in it.
So I, I really don't have to do a whole lot with that. You know, it's, it's been kind of ingrained in their minds there.
[00:28:32] Morgan Jones Pearson: Coach Reid, we still have a little bit of time. So before I get to my last question, one more question along these lines that just kind of occurred to me, I thought it was interesting throughout the season, anytime you were asked about.
Travis Kelce's relationship with Taylor Swift. You were very positive and encouraging, and I think it could have been easy for a coach to be like, this is a distraction. Like, I don't, I don't want to answer these questions. Um, why was it important to you to make sure that you were positive and supportive when those questions were asked?
[00:29:08] Andy Reid: Yeah. So Morgan, I've known her longer than Travis really. I mean, as I know her when she was a little shooter and her dad was a big Eagles fan. So when I was coaching at the Eagles, I had a chance. She was kind of just starting off to meet him and her. He actually played football, I believe, at Delaware. And so he, you know , he understood the game.
He raised his children that way. Um, And so she, she kind of, she just gets it. And I think, I think it's indirectly, it's such a relief for her not to have to be center stage, she can actually be a fan. And I think she appreciates that part of it, but she, she's a, she's a good person. Her mom and dad did a good job of raising her.
She's humble, arguably the most famous woman in the world since the queen has passed away. So for her to handle things the way she does, I, my hat goes off to her. And, and listen, most of all her and Travis. Love each other. So, I mean, who wants to disrupt that? I mean, those two are very happy together. And I got Travis is like one of my children.
So he's been here as long as I've been here and I've seen him grow and for him to be happy in a relationship, I just think is a, is a neat deal.
[00:30:30] Morgan Jones Pearson: Yeah, well, I, I wanted to ask that because I feel like when you have had the kind of relationship that you've had with your wife and you've seen the way that that blesses your life and makes it better, like you want that for somebody else.
And I, I think that that's awesome. If you don't mind, can I ask you one more question? . What would you say that you want to be known for when all is said and done? How do you want to be remembered?
[00:30:59] Andy Reid: Yeah, I think probably most that you're honest and you're a caring person. I think are the probably the most important good teacher would probably fit in there.
And then a hard worker. I think if you can, and I know knowledge comes in there, but knowledge comes Uh, strength comes within knowledge and, and so on. So it's, uh, but, uh, to say that, listen, I've, I've been, I'm giving you an opportunity to be, uh, a better person. I'm gonna approach you that way until you tell me different.
That's how I'm coming at you. And I'm gonna give it my all. on everything and then which comes in to the hard work part of it. Yeah, those would probably be the couple of things that I want to be remembered for.
[00:31:50] Morgan Jones Pearson: That's awesome. Coach Reid, it has been such a treat to talk to you. I appreciate so much your insights and letting me pick your brain a little bit.
My last question for you is, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?
[00:32:06] Andy Reid: Yeah, well, I've already said it, but I mean, Morgan, what a great example Jesus Christ was for us and really still is. I mean, here we have a living prophet that's able to share these messages with us of guidance and encouragement.
So we get to live this, we get to see it every, every day. There's a, there's a message. There's an example, something that we can, we can follow if we just open up our hearts and. If we keep it simple to say our prayers and read our scriptures every day, things we've been taught since we were little shooters, then those simple things can help guide us through most situations that you come through in life.
And, uh, and if, You feel like they're not giving you the answers. You dig a little deeper, you're probably gonna find the answer. And we've been blessed with that, that really game plan to get us through our earth life. And so I bank on that a lot. And Jesus Christ is, uh, uh, is the main character in the scene.
He, he's a great, great person to, uh, to learn from.
[00:33:14] Morgan Jones Pearson: Thank you so much. I completely agree with you and and I'm grateful coach for your example and recognize that a lot of people, their impression of of our faith and the things that we believe is based on their impression of you and what they see on the TV.
Well, I, I feel like I have been, I've been inspired coached by your humility throughout this conversation. So thank you so much for taking the time and for being willing. It really means a lot to me.
[00:33:48] Andy Reid: Oh, you bet Morgan. You're doing great work too, by the way. Yeah, this is neat.
[00:33:54] Morgan Jones Pearson: Huge thanks to coach Andy Reid for taking the time to talk with us on today's episode.
I'd also like to express appreciation to Carly Ellett and Tammy Reid for making this interview happen. We are so grateful to Derek Campbell of Mix At Six Studios for his help with this and every episode of this podcast and thank you so much for listening. We'll look forward to being with you again next week.