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[00:00:00] Morgan Jones Pearson: On today's episode, we will refer to a Netflix documentary titled Untold, The Girlfriend Who Didn't Exist. Listeners should be advised that the documentary does contain coarse language and viewer discretion is advised. Manti Te’o was victim of one of the most well known catfishing incidents. Since the invention of the internet, a Heisman finalist and consensus, all American football player Manti Te’o had one of the most decorated college football careers in NCA history.
And yet his legacy was shrouded for a decade by the story of Manti's girlfriend, who didn't exist in 2022, though, a Netflix documentary allowed Manti and others involved to tell the whole story, the man who as a young college football player had become the laughing of DNCA was able to clear his name and share a story of hope and forgiveness, which resulted in many within sports media, both apologizing and applauding Manti for the way he handled a horrific situation.
While Manti speaks of his faith in the documentary, I wanted to dig deeper into the role his belief as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints played in his ability to forgive and move forward. And I'm grateful to Manti. for his willingness to do that on today's episode.
This is All In, an LDS Living podcast where we ask the question, what does it really mean to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'm Morgan Pearson, and I am so honored to have Manti Te’o on the line with me today. Manti, welcome.
[00:01:42] Manti Te’o: Thank you so much, Morgan. I'm looking forward to our conversation and looking forward to connecting with a lot of people.
[00:01:48] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, I am so excited about this. I, I don't know. We, we have to give a shout out to my friend Shima for making this episode happen. I don't know if Shima told you, but I have been trying ever since I watched the Netflix documentary, which was like the week it came out to get ahold of you because I just thought it was so inspiring and I watched it twice in 24 hours.
If that tells you how much I enjoyed it. Um, but I just, I thought that you did such a great job and I felt like you represented the church so, so well. And so I guess to start us off along those lines, I get the sense that you have always been somebody who has taken very seriously the responsibility to represent your family and your culture and the church well.
I know that you were raised in the church, but I wonder is, do you feel like you have always had a testimony of the gospel or is that something that you can look back and kind of pinpoint to certain moments in your life.
[00:02:48] Manti Te’o: I'm glad you, we started off with this question. When I was younger, I felt like I had a testimony, but as I've grown up and as I've experienced life and as I've made good decisions and bad decisions, and I might, I guess for lack of a better word, I have become more mature.
Not only as a, as a human being, but as a disciple of Jesus Christ, I, I can honestly say my parents did an amazing job in creating a foundation, a spiritual foundation for me and my sisters, um, to have a belief in Jesus Christ, to have a belief in the gospel, but it wasn't until I started to experience life for myself as an adult, as a young man, and started to see.
Heavenly father's hand in my life that I start to actually gain a testimony for myself. I think there's a difference between belief and it always starts with the belief and as you Go through the things that heavenly father sits in front of you Whether they whether it be be good or bad that you start to understand and have a perspective about life That creates a testimony and and I use that those terms good and bad because I think sometimes we get it a little mixed up that When good things happen, it's from heavenly father and bad things happen.
It isn't. But I think one of the, one of the things about my testimony is good and bad things come from heavenly father. You know, if he wants me to be better, if he wants me to, to improve in certain aspects of my life, he'll send me a problem to, to figure out. And often that problem is, is, is things that I don't enjoy and things that will categorize as bad, you know?
And so, um, I think I've learned throughout my life that. As long as I'm living my life worthily that I know that whatever comes my way is coming from him and I strive to do so I'm not perfect, but I strive to do that so that I know for sure that whether things be good or bad, it's meant for me and it comes from the man himself and I can have confidence confidence in knowing that the end result is exactly what he wanted me to be.
So, I, I think to answer your question, I had a belief when I was little. Um, I had a belief in the church and I, you know, I believe the things that I was taught and it's, it's through my development and it's through my growing that now I have a testimony on it and a testimony is something that can't be shaken, uh, no matter what circumstances may come throughout life, I have a firm testimony in the gospel and, and, and what it, the joy and the peace that has given me and my family.
[00:05:22] Morgan Jones Pearson: I love the way that you put that, that, that good and bad things can come from God. I think that that is profound. Manti, in your culture, there are three things that kind of serve as pillars, and this was mentioned multiple times in the documentary, Faith, Family, and Football. What do you think it is that makes those three things so foundational and almost, it seems like inseparable in Polynesian culture?
[00:05:51] Manti Te’o: I think it's, if you look at the similarities between the three, each and every one of them, faith, family, and football is a focus on something other than yourself. Um, it's, it's, it's a focus on doing things to honor heavenly father and the faith aspect, doing things to honor your parents and the family aspect.
And then the football aspect is doing things for the betterment of the team, understanding that you're 1 piece of the puzzle. And it doesn't mean that you're just another odd piece it that piece is specific and it's important to the success of the whole. And so I think that's 1 of the things when, when you, when you think of faith, family and football, that is 1 of the biggest similarities is not necessarily downplaying your role, but understanding that how your role fits in the bigger picture of things and trying to be the best instrument, trying to be the best piece, trying to be the best puzzle.
Best son, father, whatever it may be to ensure that not only are you becoming the best version of yourself, but you're helping others to feel and feel empowered to, to be and to become the best version versions of themselves as well. So I, I think I like to look at those three, those three things that way.
[00:07:06] Morgan Jones Pearson: That makes a lot of sense. Let me ask you this, at the peak of your college football career, you were One of the absolute hands down best players in the country. I imagine that in in Hawaii, you probably were around a lot of other people that had that faith foundation. But as you got older and in college, you were probably around others that were not as founded in their faith.
What do you think it was about your faith that made you a good football player and a good leader?
[00:07:43] Manti Te’o: I think it's the service aspect of, of being who I was on the football field. My position was a linebacker, specifically the middle linebacker. And as a middle linebacker, you're looked at as the quarterback of the defense, the general, the captain, whatever it is, right?
You're kind of already, that's that role. You're the guy that gets everybody lined up. You're the guy that calls the plays. You're the guy that ensures that, you know, whether the play goes well or. Or bad that it's really on you, you take on that responsibility. And I think to tie that in with how my, how the gospel kind of fits in it and how it kind of meshed perfectly with who I am.
It's the greatest leaders, in my opinion, are the greatest servants. Under the guys that serve the men and the women around them in the capacity where it kind of elevates them, you know, the greatest, the greatest attribute of a leader is their ability to bring the best out of those around them. And if you look at the gospel, if you look at the Savior, he probably was the greatest example of that.
To be able for people to see their maximum potential and to live up to that potential, no matter what circumstances they were in, whether they be a priest or a center, you know, he was probably able to pinpoint with each and every 1 of us what is. What is necessary and what is what? What is capable, what we are capable of, capable of, and helping us get there.
And so I think to think of those two worlds, whether it be football or whether it be the church, I think there are a lot of similar best at being with my ability to, to serve those around me, to make people feel heard, to empower them, and, and, and. You know, bring us together as a collective to carry out a goal.
And I think that's exactly what the savior has done in his life. Um, obviously mine was in the football sense, you know, and his was in a more important game, but that was something that kind of was, was, was easier for me. Cause I understood from a spiritual background and having my testimony of Jesus Christ, of how he did things at, at, at the biggest level of how I could practice that, you know, in, in my game of football as a, as a leader of my team.
[00:10:02] Morgan Jones Pearson: I think that is spot on. That idea of being a leader servant, I think is so important. I think so, so many times it's easy to aspire to being a leader. It's not as easy or natural, I think, to aspire to serving others. But when you get that to your point, you become a leader. When you committed to Notre Dame, I know it broke the hearts of every football fan in Utah, but you also, you had been a huge USC fan and you dreamed of going to USC.
It was the peak of their, kind of football dynasty and you had the opportunity to go there and you talk in the documentary about how after praying about it, you felt like you were supposed to go to Notre Dame and you, you can tell even in the video that you were sad when you committed. So tell me a little bit about that decision.
[00:10:55] Manti Te’o: You will see had a big recruiting weekend the weekend before signing day and signing day traditionally is on the 1st, Wednesday in February. So you will see was strategic about putting this, this big recruiting weekend the weekend right before. Right? But before I left on on the recruiting trip on Friday, my dad sent me down.
He said, Hey, when you come home on Sunday from this trip, we're going to sit down as a family and you're going to tell us where you're going to go. I never. I never mentioned where I wanted to go. Everybody knew that, as you said, everybody knew that I was a big USC fan. So I went on this USC trip. I came back on Sunday, we sat down as a family and my dad said, okay, well, where are you going to go?
And I told my dad, I was going to go to SC and he smiled, everybody celebrated, you know, and every, it was a happy day for us. And my dad looked at me, he said, well, make sure you pray about it. So, yeah, I will. And so my, my high school was an hour and a half away from where we lived. And I remember my dad picked us up from, from school.
On Monday and on our way back, my dad asked me, he was like, are you still solid on SC? I told him, yeah, I'm still solid. And he said, did you pray about it yet? And I said, no, I haven't prayed about it yet. He's like, make sure you pray about it. I said, oh, I will. Less than 24 hours before signing day. I am in English class and we're watching the movie.
The movie Dead Poets Society. You ever seen it, Morgan?
[00:12:11] Morgan Jones Pearson: I have. Yep. Yeah.
[00:12:12] Manti Te’o: For the viewers that haven't seen that Dead Poets Society, it's basically about a young man who wanted to be something, but his dad wanted him to be something else. Now, in my situation, my dad wasn't that for me. He wasn't, my parents never told me where they wanted me to go, but I definitely could empathize with this kid.
Um, because you know, this coach wanted me to go here. My friends wanted me to go here, you know, and everybody had their opinion. And so in the middle of class, I said a quick prayer, asking Heavenly Father if SC was the right place for me. Right when I said, amen, I felt my phone vibrate in my pocket and it was my dad.
I let it go to voicemail. And so I listened to the voicemail after it came through. And basically my dad said, Hey, just letting you know that the Notre Dame coaches just emailed wishing you good luck. No, no. Then they know that wherever you go, that you'll do something great. No, nothing, nothing special.
But after class, I made my way up to the athletic office and the first office that I stepped into was my head coach. Now, my head coach, just to give a little background, his dad, Charlie is in the USC Hall of Fame for football. And so me knowing where I was, where I wanted to go, I was expecting a celebration, you know, sort of say when I, when I told him where I was going to go.
So we sat in his office and he asked me, Hey, so where are you going? And I said, well, I'm going to SC. And the celebration was a little underwhelming, you know, well, my coach, he's, he's, he's a little even keeled. He's a little low key. So I, you know, but I was still expecting something, something a little more dramatic.
And as I looked at him, I remember asking him, well, what do you, what do you think? And he was like, well, who else is it down to? And I was like, well, as everybody knows, SC is always my favorite, you know, so SC is always the front runner. I was like, but a very, very distant 2nd, I would say Notre Dame. Yeah, he looked at me and I said, well, coach, tell me, I want to know how you, what you think about it.
And he said, well, you just seem like a Notre Dame type of guy. I remember I looked at him and I said, well, what does that even mean? You know, but, you know, I said, thank you. And I walked out of the office and then I went into the office right next to him. And it was a man by the name of Mr. Tom Holden. He was a.
The athletic director at our school, and he was the very opposite from my coach. He was very energetic. I think he's an Ohio state alum. So he, he, he sits me down and he said, all right, young man. He said, so, so where are we going tomorrow? And I told him, well, Mr. Holden, I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna go to USC.
He was like, Hey man, congratulations, man. I'm so excited for you. And then he asked me the same question. He was like, who else was it down to? I was like, well, everybody knows, you know, same spiel, everybody knows a USC fan this whole time, and they're always the front runner. But if there's any, if there was anybody else, a very distant 2nd, it was Notre Dame.
And then immediately when I said, Notre Dame is a, it's like, you know, that Notre Dame network is 1 of the biggest networks and most powerful networks out there. It's like, they are everywhere, but USC got a great network, too. I remember just thinking like, man, what the heck is going on here? And so I leave his office and I walk into the last office and there's a man in there by the name of Gary Satterwhite and I called him Uncle G.
He was somebody that, you know, really took care of me. I really looked after me while I was at my high school. He was a track coach. And I remember I'm sitting on the couch in that office and. I'm a little, you know, obviously there's a lot on my mind at that time. And he asked me, I was like, what's up, nephew?
Look like you have a lot on your mind. And I remember I looked at him and I say, no, cause G I'm just confused now. You can say, well, what's going on? And I said, well, I came in here solid on SC and then I go in and see coach Collin and he talks about how I'm a Notre Dame type of guy. Then I go see Mr. Holden and he starts just. Raving about the Notre Dame network and all of this stuff. And, you know, I was like, so I'm just kind of, you know, I'm just, I don't know. And I remember he, he told me, he said, you know, you know, I love you. I was like, no, I'm cool. I know you love me. He said, you're going to go to a place like USC and you're going to be the next great Polynesian football player.
You're going to be the next junior. Say, oh, you're going to be the next Troy Polo model. So I just always thought you'd go to a place like Notre Dame and be the only Manti Te’o. And it was at that time, like, I know they're, they're, they're very. Specific moments when I know the spirits talking to me and that was 1 of those, it was like a thunderbolt just hit me in the head.
And so I smiled, I left the office and my daddy came, I didn't tell my dad at that time, but I remember he came, he picked us up from school and we're on the hour and a half drive back from from school. We're about halfway through. My dad starts going over the logistics for the next day. You know, you say, hey, listen, we bought the hats and no, we're going to go to the.
Go to the big center where we're getting everything signed. You know, you're going to pick the SC head in the middle of his spiel. I just say, I'm not going to SC. And I remember he just swerves off the road and he puts it in park. He said, well, what are you talking about? And I remember just, if you could imagine, I'm just, it's not the answer that I wanted to hear.
But I'm just, I had my head down and I'm shaking my head. And he said, what do you mean? You're not going to SC? So, yeah, I'm not going to SC. He's like, then where are you going? And I remember I told him, and I said this Saturday, I was like, I'm going to Notre Dame. And he smiled and he said, you prayed about it, didn't you?
And I said, yes, I did. And he smiled. He said, okay, Notre Dame it is. And so that, that's how it decided, you know, how it came about the decision to go to Notre Dame. You look at my life, you look at how it's, how everything has happened. It's another testimony of having faith in Heavenly Father and His plan for you.
No matter what it looks like, no matter, um, how you understand it, you know, no matter if you can see it, why wouldn't you trust the man who knows the end from the beginning? You know, he knows everything, you know, so why wouldn't you trust him? And a lot of times it's, it's difficult because we use our own knowledge and our own understanding to try to understand things that he does and trying to do that is impossible, you know?
So it's just, for me, I found it better for me that I just have faith that everything will work out for the better. Um, as long as I just trust in him and, and do my best. And so that's how I chose to go to Notre Dame over SC.
So the interesting thing to me about this is that you think you make that decision, you get there and maybe because of your religious upbringing and because Notre Dame is a Catholic school, like you'd get there and be like, Oh, yeah, like this is the place for me.
But you experience quite a bit of culture shock. For starters, South Bend is a far cry from Hawaii. Um, but you said that you just kept thinking, Heavenly Father, tell me what to do. I'm curious, Manti, how did you feel him guiding you through your experience there and helping you to be what he needed you to be there at Notre Dame at that time?
Yeah, I think it's, it's important that, you know, me, him guiding my steps, it's like you, I didn't feel him like right next to me the whole time, you know, it's, it's not like he's always just watching. You're like, I watched my daughter today at one at one of our, our friend had a party and she was over there.
My daughter's two years old and she's jumping on this inflatable jumper with a bunch of older kids and I'm just watching her. Right. It's not like that for me where I feel like he's just watching you and he's just, yeah. Waiting for something and he's whispering constant things in your ears, you know, it's, there were times where I felt he needed, he trusted me to figure things out.
You know, he said, Hey, listen, it's not going to be easy. And he knew it wasn't going to be easy. But if I just kept putting one foot in front of the other and trying to do my best, that he would make sure that I was going to be okay. And whatever, whatever greater purpose that I had to do there, that, that, that I would do it now.
That didn't make it easy. Like I said, you know, they didn't make the homesickness go away. It didn't make the winners a little warmer. You know, it just was something that I, I knew that I was there for a purpose, whatever purpose that was. I needed to let his hand guided me in that. And I, I needed to trust in his timing.
And I didn't, I never would have in a million years would have thought that my career on the football field would have ended the way it did. You know, at Notre Dame as, as, and all the successes that I was able to experience from a team aspect and from an individual standpoint, and then for my life to be what it is now.
Um, I look back and I'm, I'm very, very grateful that I felt his promptings to go there because I don't think I would've, one had the career that I had, um, had I gone anywhere else, and two, been able to meet all the beautiful people that have supported me for so long. And have actually supported me in my next transition in my, in my life and the next career that I'm currently on.
Um, it's just been, it's been beautiful. It's been amazing. And I would say this about Notre Dame, that it is the most probably recognized and prestigious Catholic institution in the world. But I remember my sophomore year when my uncles came came and I think he was serving in a bishopric at that time and there's a place at Notre Dame called the grotto.
It's it's a place where people like candles and they pray a lot and I remember my, my grandfather and my mom said he isn't a member, but he was, he was battling cancer and one of his. One of his last wishes was to one, see me play football and two to go to the grotto. He's catholic and so we went to the grotto and I remember as as i'm walking And i'm pushing him in this wheelchair that uncle who was in the bishopric at that time He says, you know, I don't care what religion you belong to when you stand on these grounds, you know, they're holy And so when I was at notre dame it created a spiritual Experience for me and a spiritual atmosphere That I could grow And my faith, they never forced me to do anything, you know, that I didn't want to do.
I was, we had pregame mass all the time and I was able to grow spiritually there. I have a deep love and respect for the Catholic religion. I have a deep love and respect for all religions. And if you watch how. The profit operates nowadays and you watch how the presidency operates, how they meet leaders of different faiths of different countries.
I think we all can learn of how inclusive we are, you know, and I think that's, that's something that I've learned while I was at, at, at Notre Dame is that, man, you may believe some different things, right? But at the end of the day, we're all sons and daughters of. Of having a father, we're always trying to do our best.
You know, some may need a little bit more assistance than others, but I think that's why we're all here is to really help each other get along and help each other on this journey called life and try to share as much love as we can. So yeah, Notre Dame, it was a special place and it allowed me to grow.
[00:22:51] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, and I think I think it's been cool to see. It's cool to see how they embraced you as well. And even, you know, in the last year or so, when you've been able to go back and visit, and it just seems like they just adore you. So that's fun to see. Manti, while you were there in school, you've said that when someone needed help, you always wanted to be somebody to help them.
And that led to your connecting with a girl that you met online. Do you think that being in a culture that was very different from what you were used to led to connecting more with this girl online? Or were you lonely at that time? Talk to me about kind of where you were at and what led to that connection.
[00:23:41] Manti Te’o: Yeah, no, I, I, I'm glad you answered that question because there's that, you know, there's that thought that, oh, maybe he was alone. And I, I, I definitely didn't feel that way. I think I was always, you know, when I was little, I would always get the most, um, I would feel the most proud when. Um, parents of classmates who just moved to Hawaii, um, or parents of classmates whose, whose, whose sons or daughters didn't have a lot of friends tell my parents, hey, I just want to tell you, thank you for your son.
He befriended my son, you know, my son, we just moved here from whatever place and he didn't have a lot of friends or. Then, you know, please tell your son, thank you. Because my, my daughter was getting picked on and your son came over there to, to really stand up for her. And when my parents would tell me these things, I really, really would feel proud.
And I really, it would really make me feel good. And so at a young age, I always just looked. To to assist, you know, wherever I could, I knew the impact that I could have as I grew up on somebody who really needed it, who really was looking for help in whatever way. I never wanted anybody to feel alone. I never wanted anybody to feel like the new kid on the block that there's that transition phase and you step into a new place.
It's like, man, I, I don't know anybody. So I'm gonna sit over here by myself. I know how that feels, you know, and so I never wanted anybody to feel that way. And I think since I've always been that way, since I was little, anybody who needed help, whether I was qualified or not, if my assistance really made a difference, then that's what exactly what I was going to do.
And unfortunately it was taken advantage of in, in, in a way that that hurt me and my family in, in, in a lot of different ways. However, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be on this podcast. You know, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have a documentary that has reached out to. People all around the world and has given them hope and inspiration and has allowed people to see God's hand in my life and strive to have, to see God's hand in their lives.
And so I started to see like, man, you know, there's a purpose for it all, you know, it was on different terms, you know, but if I'm able to have the impact that I've, that I've been able to have on people, then I'm grateful for it. You know, I'm grateful that. I have that responsibility now, and I wouldn't have had that responsibility if the bad didn't happen.
And this kind of goes back to what we talked about, talked about before, is, you know, a lot of the times during the past, from 2013 to 2022, when the documentary came out, I questioned like, why? You know, like, how could, how could this happen? How could you let this happen to me? Like I did everything I was loving, you know, I was.
I was the first one to stick my hand out there when somebody needed my help. It was just something that I couldn't stop because I knew the impact that I could have on somebody. And it got me in trouble, you know, it put me in a place where now I'm the, the butt of everybody's joke. And now I'm the, the meme that everybody sends around.
I'm, I'm, I'm that guy, you know, nobody remembers now. The, the things that happened on the football field, nobody remembers the accomplishments, the accolades, the leadership, you know, the, the, like, that's what I love about the Notre Dame family is a lot of them do remember that, but for the world, they don't remember that, you know, and so I always questioned for a long time.
I was like, so what is my purpose now? Now, how can I have a greater purpose than all that? That's the fool that got catfished. And then 2022 happens and the documentary happens. And there are people that are reaching out to me from, from Africa, from Europe, all over the world. I said, Hey man, I was, I was really thinking of killing myself.
And then I watched your documentary. And then I said, I told myself if I could do it, then I could do it. If he can overcome, then I can overcome. If, if that's, that's the type of impact that this has, then I'm grateful for it because now I, I, I tell people I'm playing a different game now, you know, I'm not playing football anymore.
Football is like this compared to what we're doing nowadays, you know, and trying to inspire people, empower people and let them know that there is somebody that's very, very aware of them and in a place and in a society, a lot of people feel alone, you know, we're, we're going to that, right? Like, oh, people are feeling alone and they feel like they're, they're, they're by themselves.
I've been there, you know, I know how that feels. And because I know how that feels. I also know that I had. Okay. I know that there is one person that understands exactly how I feel. And it was the savior himself when he went to that garden and he took upon himself, not only the sins of the world, they say, Oh, he took upon himself the sins.
Yeah. He didn't just take upon himself the sins of the world. He also felt every depression or every, every pain, whether it be physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, he felt it all in that garden. And because I know that. Because I have a firm testimony of that, I know that I'm never alone, that there's somebody out there that knows exactly how I feel.
And I'm going to be that guy that goes out into the world and say, Hey, listen, I know somebody can relate to you. And I'm grateful that Heavenly Father allowed me to go through this because now I have a full spectrum of experiences. I know how it feels to work my way from the bottom and build a career that I've seen.
The summit of what this world can offer, I've seen things I've experienced things from a material, uh, materialistic point of view from a worldly point of view of like, I've, I've experienced it all, but then I've also experienced the fall and I've experienced what rock bottom feels like. I know what depression feels like.
I know what it feels like to have those thoughts in your head of like, man, why am I even here? I've had those dark times, and then I built my way back up and I didn't do it alone, but because I've experienced that a full spectrum, I can relate to a lot of people in different times of their lives. Now, who who else does that?
Who else knows that on a greater. Scale the savior himself, and it's amazing when you get to experience these things, these trying times and these, these troubling times that you get to. Well, when my sister likes to say, you get to have a walk through get 70 with them and, um, it's those walks to get somebody that, uh, and I'm grateful for, you know,
I got to experience it just a little bit. And I try my decisions when, when I feel like it's a hard decision. I try to envision, like, whatever decision I'm about to make can either let him suffer more or can relieve some of his pain. And so I try to make the latter. I try to always say, hey, listen, I don't want to add to it, you know.
And I try to make that walk with him as much as I can. If I can alleviate some of his struggle, I will. By the decisions that I make and so, um, yeah, that walk is, is definitely, uh, an enlightening walk for me and it's been an enlightening walk and I'm, I'm excited and I feel very blessed that I get to take that walk with other people as well.
It's something that excites me.
[00:31:08] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, that is, I love the way that your sister puts that. I couldn't help but think as you were talking, we had, we had a guest on this podcast last week, a family that has gone through something really hard. And the wife said, she's like, I just don't, I don't believe everything happens for a reason.
And we talked a little bit about how I think that it's. We, we give things purpose and the way that we respond in certain situations is what gives it purpose. If, if we didn't use it in the way that it is intended, um, then it doesn't, it doesn't happen for a reason, but kind of, we can make it happen for a reason.
And I think that the thing that's so impressive about you, Manti, is that you took something new. Thank you. That had to have been excruciatingly painful and have turned it into something beautiful like you, what you were just describing. I'm curious in those days shortly following all of this coming out that that you had been catfished to realize that you have been emotionally manipulated and publicly humiliated.
I just, when I watched the documentary, I thought to myself, like, how did he keep going? Like, what was it that allowed you to pick yourself up? How did you kind of move forward? So, could you kind of walk us through? Cause I think people will hear you now and they'll be like, man, this guy is like a giant. Um, and you are, but I imagine that there were probably some really hard times in that period.
And what was it that got you through that?
[00:32:55] Manti Te’o: Well, I, you know, I grew up as a scout, you know, I grew up in Boy Scouts. I'm an Eagle Scout. I know the scouting program isn't really prevalent nowadays, but, you know, the church and when I was growing up the church in the scouting program, back then they worked hand in hand.
And I remember. A lot of times in, you know, in Hawaii, we'd go on these, these, these camping trips, we'd go on these hikes up the mountain. And, you know, a lot of these hikes were long, strenuous hikes, and they're all uphill. Right. And I remember. Going through these hikes and thinking, well, if I keep looking up at the summit, I'm going to, I'm, I'm, I'm going to get overwhelmed.
I'm like, no, we're, I'm going to stop right here. I don't even know why we're even, it seems so far, right? Like, how are we even going to get up there? And, but I feel at that time as, as a young boy scouter, if I would just look down and I would just put 1 foot in front of the other and 1 foot in front of the other and not really look up, just trust that my, my, my steps will get me there.
That that I eventually get there now, when I was going through what I was going through in those dark times, I think that. I had that same approach and that same mentality as I don't know how I'm going to get out of this. And although it looks so steep and so far, if I focus on how far I have to go, it's going to overwhelm me.
But if I just look down and I trust that man, even though I don't know how I'm going to take this step, even though I don't know where this step is going to land, if it's going to land on shore ground, or it's going to land on the cliff, but I'm going to take it and trusting that Heavenly Father is going to make sure that I do.
Land on on shore ground and short footing that eventually I'll get to where I need to get to. That's the same approach that I had during those times. And that's what I tell people all the time. Sometimes all you have is a step, you know, when you're going through those, those dark days where you're battling those demons inside.
Sometimes the best thing to do is just sometimes sitting up and getting up is, is, is a string, right? But I always thought that somebody said. When you get up and once your feet hit the ground, the devil says, Oh, no. And I wanted him to say, Oh no, a lot. You know, I wanted him to know that no matter what I'm going through, that he's not going to get the better of me, but that I'm going to show him eventually that you can't stop me.
You can't break me. And it wasn't because of my abilities. It was because of the God whom I serve. I know that you can beat him. By the, by the mention of the name, Jesus Christ, you got to flee me. So it's, you know, I know what team I'm playing for and I know, because I know what team I'm on, I know that you really, you really have no power over me.
And so those were the things that I would constantly tell myself, even when I didn't feel like I wanted to get up, even when I felt like I just wanted to stay in a dark room all day. I knew that if I just took one step, even if it's half a step, that it was something that the devil would look at and like, say, Oh man, he's starting to get it.
He's starting to go. He's starting to move. And I really, I was playing those games, you know, in my head, like I wanted to disappoint him. You know, I wanted him to be worried. And again, a lot of that came from not my abilities. Matter of fact, all of it came from knowing that it's not me. That's going to make you tremble.
It's going to, it's going to be, you knowing the man in whom I serve, you know, I know that you fear him. I know that, you know, that he's the 1 because I know that you fear him that. As long as I'm on his team, then you can, you know, I'm going to win the Super Bowl. I mean, so it's a, it's just a matter of time for me.
So it was, it was, it was those things. It wasn't always pretty. It wasn't always easy, but I knew that if I put one foot in front of the other, and I didn't worry about looking up at the summer that eventually I'll get there. And, um, you know, I'm not saying that I got there by any means, but I definitely have felt a lot better, you know, as of late.
[00:36:46] Morgan Jones Pearson: So, one thing that has struck me throughout our conversation, you are a, you're a dad now, and you have mentioned multiple times things that your parents. have taught you and it was very clear to me in the documentary as well that you have great parents. Seems like they never wavered in their support of you.
They never turned their backs on you. I wondered now as a dad, what did that teach you about parenting?
[00:37:19] Manti Te’o: Well, you know, it's, there's so many things that my parents have taught me and it's something that just being a father has taught me. And I'll share this with you, Morgan. I consider Me being a father, the greatest blessing ever.
And the reason why I say that is because it is the first time and the only time as a man that you could see yourself through God's eyes, like how I see my children, it is, it is the most beautiful, powerful relationship that I could ever have with my children. And I start to see how God sees me. And when I see my children struggle, you know, their babies, I got a two and a half year old and a one year old.
When I see them struggle, there's that game that I play. And there's that not game, but that, that, that, that conundrum that I'm in or that, that, that, that, that dilemma as a dad is like, do I intervene or do I not? Do I save them? Do I not do I pick them up and carry them or do I not? And oftentimes as a father, I can, I see the bigger picture.
I'm like, well, if I pick you up right now, you're never going to learn how to walk. Yeah. If I, if I tend to you crying at nighttime all the time, you're never going to sleep throughout the night. You're never going to learn how to, uh, how to care for yourself. And then I like, wait, that's exactly, that's exactly like, oh, wait, when I'm going through some hard times, I'm like, man, how many father, where are you at?
He's he's, he's right by my crib. Just cheering me on, like, I know you can do it. I know you can do it. I know you can walk, you know, my son, he just started walking a few weeks ago. And it's amazing when, when he was, when he, when he was starting to walk and he would fall down, like, I would just say, come on, you can do it.
You can do it. You can do it. And I wouldn't, I would just be motioning in front of him. Like, you can do it. You can do it. Sometimes I'll be standing behind and ready to grab him before he falls. And I oftentimes when I'm doing these things with my children, I'm like, I can just picture how many father that you can do it, keep coming, you're going to fall.
It may hurt sometimes, but I'm right here with you and I'm right by your crib. I'm, I'm, I can't save you right now, man, because I'm just going to, it's going to rob you of all the beautiful lessons and it's going to rob you of becoming the man that I need you to become, but I'm right here with you sharing your own, believing in you just believe in yourself, you know?
And so it's, it's, it's the most beautiful thing, Morgan, for me to be a father, right? It is the responsibility that I cherish the most, and I'm grateful that Heavenly Father Son be worthy to care for these, these two angels that I have. I'm grateful for my wife because she's the, she's the one that has to bring them into this world for me.
And she's an amazing mother. She's an amazing partner for me. Um, but to be a father has been the greatest blessing ever for me.
[00:40:11] Morgan Jones Pearson: I was laughing as you were talking about that because just today my husband and I had a conversation. I took our little girl to the park and she's 9 months old and she was just sitting on this little thing at the park.
And this boy came up and tried to kick her in the head and it's the first time that I've ever had anything like that happen. And my husband was like, what did you do? You know, and we were talking about how, you know, that will be one of the hardest things as a parent is watching your kid go through something hard or having somebody do something to them and realizing like that's necessary for their progression and their development.
[00:40:52] Manti Te’o: I just thought of something more. You brought up such a great point. And I want to, you know, I want to be able to really hammer this for, for, for the listeners. You just brought up something with your daughter, right? That somebody came up and wanted to do something to her that obviously you could have intervened, like, had he done it, you had the abilities to stop it.
All right. There's so many times with my, with my children that I have the ability. Just literally stop everything or anything that can happen to him. I can literally keep him safe. Imagine how it was for a heavenly father to watch his only begotten go through what he went through, knowing that he had the ability to stop it all.
But because he knew his Christ had to go through what he went through for the greater good of all his other sons and daughters, what type of love that is though, Morgan. That type of love for you and I, that he allowed the most excruciating things to happen to it. His only begotten, so that we could have the power of eternal life and the gift of eternal life.
Imagine that, you know what I mean? So for us as parents, we get to experience in our own little ways, those type of scenarios and situations where, man, I can stop this right now, you know, and imagine how it was for him to watch Christ go through what he went through, knowing that with a snap of a finger, Martin, you could end it.
Like, it'd just be over. But he didn't, he had to stay his hand. He had to let it happen for you. And for me, that's that type of love is something that I can't even, that's what, there's a reason why he said he loves you perfectly. It's, it's, it's insane when you really think about it in that context.
[00:42:43] Morgan Jones Pearson: Well, the interesting thing, Manti, when you were just talking, when you first started in on that analogy, I thought he's going to say, like, Heavenly Father could have stopped what happened to you.
And instead you talked about he could have stopped what happened to the Savior. But I, I think the same thing holds true. I think there are many, many ways that Heavenly Father could have, could have taken this experience away from you, but instead He knew what you would take it and do with it and to take that away from you wouldn't wouldn't make sense on the documentary.
Naya talks about feeling torn between doing what she knew was the right thing and not being able to let go of this. Online relationship and at the end of the documentary you talk about forgiveness and I want to encourage people That are listening to go and watch you can find that clip on youtube if nothing else But you talk about forgiveness, not only of Naya, but also of all the people who mocked you when this story became public.
I wondered if you could talk to me about the spiritual process that it took to even get to a place where you could forgive, because I think forgiveness is a tricky one.
[00:44:07] Manti Te’o: Well, I think the first thing was understanding that often, oftentimes forgiveness isn't for those who need to be forgiven. It's for the forgiver.
I, my life was, it was a living hell, Morgan, like my life during that time. It was in constant turmoil. I did not enjoy being out in. Public I did not enjoy walking out of my door. I did not enjoy going to work. I did not enjoy anything at all. And it was, it was, it was just that it was a living hell for me, Morgan.
And I knew that in order for me to move on with my life, in order, in order for me to find some sort of solace from all of this, this, this anger and, and, and frustration and all of this, this life that I didn't like, I needed to let it go. And that was the 1st step in my forgiveness journey was, Hey, listen, I need to let this go so that I can move on with my life.
And so. I made that decision and I remember I knew that I had fully forgiven. This individual, because I was at a all star game in Oceanside, California, and I remember I'm with a bunch of my friends were at this high school all star game and it's a football game and I'm standing there and I'm standing in the back of the end zone, but I'm looking.
At, uh, I remember I saw a young lady and, and what looked like her dad, and she, her dad was in a wheelchair. And I remember, I'm just looking at this, this, this, this young lady, and I knew that I never met her before, but I recognized her and my friend Tommy, he comes over to me and he's all happy and he's like, bro, what?
What's up with you? I was like, no, I'm, I'm good bro. You know, I'm good. I just, that girl right there. And I pointed at her and I said, that girl right there. I've never met her before, but she looks so familiar. And I remember his face immediately changed and he's like, bro, we can leave right now. And I remember I was like, wait, why would, why would we leave?
And I remember he said, that's Renaya's sister. And I said, oh, that's who that is. And then I asked him, I was like, is right here and say, yeah, he's on the other side of the stadium. I guess, I guess he's taking pictures or something. And I was like, oh, interesting. And I remember he was like, bro, but we can leave right here.
And it was at that time, Morgan, that I had no feelings. And I didn't feel that I needed to get your revenge or anything like that. I mean, I knew that I was, I was okay. Now I knew that for me, in order to get to the place where I wanted to, there were steps that further steps that I needed to take in this forgiveness process.
One of those being, we talked about the savior and him being, you know, the greatest example for all of us. And I, I remember learning and thinking to myself, well, when Christ was up on that cross, what was the 1 of the things that he said, forgive them for they know not what they do. And if Christ could do that in 1 of the most excruciating of deaths, why he's hanging from the cross with nails in his wrists and his hands and his feet.
And he still could forgive the people that just put them in there. You know what I mean? Then why can't I do that? What is my excuse? And then to take it further, I didn't want to get to the next life and to be sitting in front of the heavenly father and the savior and for them to say, you know, I'm anti all the, the date, all the days that you asked me for forgiveness, all the days that you prayed to me and asked me to forgive you and you couldn't forgive this one person.
I knew that I didn't want to be that I knew that there were spiritual steps that I needed to make in order to ensure that I was doing what I knew how many father wanted me to do. I was doing the things that Jesus Christ set an example for me to do. And if I could do that, I knew that, hey, I would be okay.
You know, if the greatest of all could forgive in those circumstances, then. Like, what is your excuse, man, that you really have none. I really followed. I know that the savior, what the savior would have done. And I know what the savior has done. And then I also know the type of individual that I want to be when I meet him at the end and be honest and to be, and to honestly say that heavenly father, I did it.
You know, and hopefully that he would tell me that the words that we all wanted to hear when we see him, it's like, well done, thou good and faithful servant. And that's what I wanted to, that's, that's what I want. That's the conversation I wanted to have with him and not the, well, how come you couldn't forgive this person when my life has, has benefited tremendously from being able to forgive and to forgive not only the person that did it to me, but to also forgive myself.
I think there's a whole nother, yeah. As a whole another lesson in, in, in forgiveness is we, we tend to forgive a lot of people, but sometimes the most important, oftentimes the most important person that you have to forgive is yourself and be kind to yourself. So, that's, that's just the journey of forgiveness that I had to go on.
[00:49:37] Morgan Jones Pearson: Speaking of that, as you were talking, I thought of one more question that I'd like to ask you before we get to our final question. And that is today, you are a husband to a beautiful wife, you have two kids, you have been able to participate in this documentary that has made a difference in people's lives.
If you could go back to yourself at like the lowest of lows following this situation. And say something to your younger self, what would you say?
[00:50:11] Manti Te’o: I would say the same thing that Heavenly Father told me when I was in, in the celestial room in 2018 when I went to the temple and I had a question that I was at.
What I wanted that I wanted to ask him is what was, what was, what was the, what is the purpose for my life? And when I was pondering about that question, like, why am I going through what I went through? Like, what is the purpose? What's why can I do all of these things? I remember these, these words came very, very clear on my head.
It's not your time yet. And if I could go back to that kid that was in that apartment room and that dark space, if I could go back to that kid that would just want to hide out in his bedroom and not go, I just want to tell him, Hey, it's not your time yet. It's going to be okay, but it's not your time yet.
And knowing that it was not my time yet would give me hope that there is something coming when it is my time. I just didn't know what it was. You know, I just like, what kind of, what kind of impact, how can I go up to somebody that's sitting by themselves and say, Hey man, I'm a friend. And they look at me, I was like, aren't you the one that got catfished?
You know, I need to be, I was like, how am I going to be able to make an impact when, when that's the narrative that everybody seems to remember enough and nothing else. If I could go back to that kid, that young man and say, Hey, it's not your time yet. No, it's coming, but it's, it's not your time yet. I think it's, it's, it's those words that I heard in a celestial room in 2018 that really helped me.
[00:51:49] Morgan Jones Pearson: I have chills listening to you talk about that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Manti, you are a delight and it's been so, I've, I've learned so much from your perspective. I appreciate you taking the time. My last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?
[00:52:07] Manti Te’o: I think what it means to be all in on the gospel of Jesus Christ, I like to relate it to when I was little and you'd get that present, right?
You'd get that present that you always wanted from your parents. And the 1st thing that you want to do, you know, you're on, you're on Christmas break. So you wouldn't see your friends until a few weeks later, you know, going back into school, but you, there were your friends on the street and you. Grab that gift and you'd want to take it to your friend's house and show everybody and say, look what I got, look at, look at this thing, look at this bike, look at this remote control core, look at this game and the excitement and the joy that you would have when you got to share it with other people, I.
I think being all in on the gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ is knowing that we've been given a gift. Um, and that's the gift of eternal life. It's the gift of that the savior paid with his life and it's the, it's the only gift that can give you peace. That's the thing about where I was at in my life when I was at the top was I got to experience all of the finest things in this world.
Clothing jets. Finest cars, finest hotels, all of that. And yes, it will make you excited for a while. It may bring you happiness for a while, whatever you, but there is something that there is, there, there is only one thing that they can't duplicate. And that's peace. And that's why it says in the scriptures, peace, I leave on to peace.
I give to you. He doesn't say happiness. He doesn't say joy. He says peace. And that's the only peace can only come from the gospel. Peace can only come from that gift that we've all known that we've all received. Now it is up to people like you and I to be that. That young man, young lady, when we got that gift at Christmas to run around the street and to share it with everybody, because it's the greatest gift of all.
And so I believe that being all in on the gospel of Jesus Christ is just that is understanding that we have a gift that we know what that gift is. And there are so many people that could benefit from that gift. If we just share.
[00:54:06] Morgan Jones Pearson: Manti, thank you so much. Uh, you, you're awesome. Thank you,
[00:54:10] Manti Te’o: Morgan. I really appreciate it.
[00:54:16] Morgan Jones Pearson: A huge thank you to Manti Te’o for joining me on today's episode. His story of redemption and forgiveness is one that has continued to inspire me, and I hope it does the same for you. Thanks to Derek Campbell of Mix at 6 Studios for his help with this episode, and thank you so much for listening. We will be with you again next week.