The following transcript is intended to aid in your study. However, while we try to go through the transcript, our transcripts are primarily computer-generated and often contain errors. Please forgive the transcripts’ imperfections.

===

Morgan Jones Pearson: [00:00:00] The Truman brothers recently released a Christmas album and yet as I prepared for this interview two lines from a previous Album stood out to me You see he knew thee long before you were in the womb and he felt you in the garden under the full moon But still you wonder how it ever could have been for you and in another story Song, the Holy Spirit whispers.

This will all be for your good, but you can't help but wonder how it ever could. But remember in the garden where blood did fall, the God of heavens suffered it all. Your pain is like the empty tomb. Before her name, he called song lyrics that testify of Christ, who he really was and what he really did for each of us.

Lyrics that invite him into our day to day even when it's not Christmas. Perhaps this season we can focus on carrying him out of the month of December with us and into a new year. The Truman Brothers not only [00:01:00] perform together as a duo, but as part of the Nashville Tribute Band. The two are husbands and fathers who are also known for occasionally showing up in comedy shows with the Johnson Files.

You can find their new Christmas album, The Sounding Joy, And I

am so honored to have Chad and Ben Truman on the line with me today. Ben and Chad, welcome. Hello. Well, this is so fun for me. I have to tell you, I actually felt like I took a little trip down memory lane today as I was preparing for this interview because I was at BYU when you guys were like having your heyday and everybody, everybody at BYU, they were all Truman fans, so this was very fun.[00:02:00]

But I want to start you all grew up sons of a famous country musician and I am a Diamond Rio fan. So Dan Truman is your dad and I have to say he is definitely on my list of people that I would love to interview. So I'm going to need you guys to help me, help me hook that up.

Chad Truman: I got his number somewhere,

Morgan Jones Pearson: um, but I wondered, do you feel like, I feel like Uh, that probably is something like his incredible talent is probably something that you've appreciated more as time has gone on, but I wondered, do you feel like you've always appreciated how talented he is and what are the biggest lessons that he's taught you about music and specifically about songwriting?

Ben Truman: Yeah, you know, totally. It's funny because as we were growing up, you know, dad was just dad and the, and the things that we were experiencing as kids were just the way life was. And now as we've gotten older, we've realized, man, that was a pretty cool situation. We grew up in, [00:03:00] you know, and. More specifically to the question about his talent, as we get older and older, I, every time I get a chance to hear my dad play the piano, because to me, that's his premier talent was, is his piano playing and, and the, and the touch he has when he's, when he's playing the piano.

And just, it's not like necessarily he can do the fast stuff, but like the way it makes you feel when you hear him play. And it's always been something we appreciate. And ultimately just really grateful for the love of music that he instills in us.

Chad Truman: I mean, you know, he's one of generations above him as well that loved music, right?

And we got to see our grandparents share that love on the Truman side, and my, our mom's side is the Jensen side. It was such a joy to see them enjoy music. Our dad, when he was in college, our aunt, His younger sister told us a story that when he, when they were living in Orem, they were like, Hey, let's go visit Dan and have lunch with him or something at BYU.

And she said, [00:04:00] I always knew where he would be in the practice rooms when they wanted, when they went to BYU campus, where was Dan? There's no cell phones back then. Right? So where's Dan? He was always in the practice room since she said about four to five hours a day. And, um, I just, I, you know, I love that, right.

The, the effort led to the success, right.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I think so many times we look at people like your dad and we just think like, oh, they're effortlessly talented. And that's so not true. I think so many people work so hard to get to the point that they're at. I listened to another interview in preparation for this interview where you talked about how your parents Um, including your dad didn't push music on the two of you at all, but that when you started Chad to show interest, he began teaching you quick little lessons that changed the way that you played the piano.

I wondered if you could tell us a little bit about that.

Chad Truman: [00:05:00] Yeah, you know, again, both mom and dad were performers at Opryland in Nashville, right? And that's why we moved out to Nashville in the 80s, or that they did. And then the kids came later, um, and they just did music because they loved it. And then we started taking, uh, just general piano lessons.

Like many kids do. And then after a few years, specific for me, after a few years, you know, you start getting bored or whatever it is, a lot of kids, right, mom, maybe they're just not as in love with the classical side, which was my story. And so when my dad saw that excitement waning, he said, okay, let's, let's do something about this.

So he started giving me what I call five second lessons. So he'd be like, Hey, just play it like this. Makes it sound cooler. And then he'd walk away, you know? And then a few months later, after that, I got to eighth grade. And before school for three months straight, Monday through Friday, unless he was out of town for a gig, but pretty, pretty [00:06:00] solid there that fall semester or whatever of eighth grade, he'd wake up every morning for about 30, 40 minutes.

We'd have a lesson, the very beginnings of. I guess, chordal knowledge, improv ing, right? And it was just so fun, because what happened is, I didn't get, I didn't get incredible in those three months, but what happened is, I got to see around the corner at so much that else is out there, you know, besides just stuff that's maybe in a, in a book, you know?

And that creativity was just lit, and then they couldn't get me off the piano. I'm so grateful that he put that, that time in.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I love that so much. I think the ability to, to tap into that kind of musical knowledge is such a gift from your dad. The two of you grew up in Nashville and because of your dad, you had the chance to be around the music industry quite a bit.

And I thought it was interesting. You talked [00:07:00] about how you had the chance to go to the Grammys or the CMAs and that you saw so much of the kind of like fake. Part of the music industry that it gave you the ability to see like, you didn't want to be singers just for the fame. You wanted to be singers because of the music and you wanted to share music, but for like the genuine love of it.

Why would you two say that that is an important distinction?

Chad Truman: I love it. Morgan, you've done your research.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I try.

Chad Truman: I, yeah, that there was a specific experience I had. And it was, it was such a combination of cool. And then also like, you know, just the glam of Hollywood. Right. But I, I think the distinction is keeping sincerity.

And that's something that our, our dad and others that we've met along the way have kept is sincerity. [00:08:00] Or, or those are the people that we still want to stay connected with, right? We're part of the National Tribute Band, right? There's some sincerity in that group, and that's what keeps us wanting to share the stage with those boys, you know?

And our dad has always been an example of that. And so if, and we've kind of almost, almost had like a pact with each other where if If it's not going to be sincere, well, then we just won't do it because it's fun to have some fun marketing angles, different stuff, but if the things get too gimmicky, right, and you lose some of that sincerity, it's kind of like, well, what are we doing here?

Morgan Jones Pearson: You know, right, right, absolutely.

Ben Truman: You know what? I just think that we love creating music that can help people and, and. If, if we have to do a song and dance to get it out there, we will, but we're definitely not in it for the song and dance, you know, necessarily we, we just want to create music that feels good to people in the way it felt good to us when we were making it.

And if we can do that, that's what we seek for sure.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I want to touch [00:09:00] on that quickly. You all started. So when I was at BYU. And when I was there, you all were doing more secular type music. And now you sing Christian music that very clearly has a message and it's very uplifting. I feel like, and I'm interested for your take, I feel like uplifting.

Upbeat music, um, with a positive message is harder to write than music that is, you know, very emotional and moody. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

Ben Truman: I would absolutely agree. Specifically, it also, just in terms of the confines of the way our culture is used to listening to music, we've had to really be careful about how big of steps we take.

Because we want to, we want to have people enjoy something different, but still something that they can freak out about when they hear, but to your point about the context, I guess I've always been worried about being [00:10:00] super cheesy. with music, right? So, how do we write songs about faith and God that doesn't, that isn't cheesy or even worse, shallow?

Because we don't want generic, personally, I don't want generic sounding, like, Christian music. I want it to be as representative of my faith as possible, and our faith, and my faith is extremely complex and deep. And it's a, it's a battle sometimes. And I think we've tried to reflect that in our music and try to tackle things that are real to the, to the listeners and, and, and something that they can relate to.

There's, there's room for the stuff. That's a little bit more. I'm just putting this on just to have a good time, or I'm just putting this on to feel good. But we wanted to write some stuff that would be companion pieces to the faith experience that people are having.

Chad Truman: There's, there's a number of songs in my life.

Just a few, like a handful that I am, like, forever grateful for because, right, they're [00:11:00] tied to a certain experience where they helped me through it. We've had a few messages, right, where people will say a similar thing to us, and that is, of course, the greatest compliment. Right. And any form of that is amazing.

Of course, I, I am, I'm all about having fun rocking out. I especially love live concerts where we have a, uh, a blast and we choir and we're jumping up and down, all that kind of stuff. But of course, almost like, uh, to parallel that, like, I would love to have those experiences. I want people to have those experiences that I did where they go, that song is now forever tied to, I don't know, that hard experience or getting through something or healing.

You know, that of course is the biggest compliment means a lot.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I think that that, that ability to tap into human emotion is such a gift. I feel like your songs as I listened to them and I've listened to several and have shared some of your songs before. Thanks. at [00:12:00] difficult times that friends have gone through, but your songs communicate a lot of very human emotions, especially related to faith.

And I think faith is, like you said, been such a complex thing and such a personal thing. You mentioned that you're speaking, you know, from personal experience with that. How would you say that you've tapped into your personal experiences with faith in your songwriting?

Ben Truman: Totally. I mean, of course, there's my own journey that I've had.

And, um, you know, we, we grew up in Nashville where, you know, it was just different than Utah for sure, which is where we live now. That's why I say that. But Nashville, we had to come to grips real early on with what we believe and why, because we had people all around us asking us and pushing us and pressuring us on these issues.

And it was really, uh, it was a blessing ultimately to be able to, uh, come to grips with that. But then. That battle continues on forever as you go through your own struggles in life and you're trying to figure out your own [00:13:00] stuff. And I think our songs definitely, um, draw from our own experience. And of course, I think it draws from the, from those that are around us, our loved ones.

I was even thinking about this the other day because I feel like sometimes we're tapping into just a general expectation of what's to come in life. Even if we haven't experienced it yet, we all go through our fair share of trials and we're all going to have our moments where we're asking those questions.

And I, I kind of put myself in that place sometimes so that I'm prepared for it, I would say when it comes. And for also for the sake of tapping into the right emotions for the songs.

Morgan Jones Pearson: What would you say is the role that music is able to play in people's faith, um, and what role would you say it's played in your personal faith?

I think music is something, at least for me, music speaks to my soul and to my heart. Um, I'm sure not everybody's that way. I think the spirit speaks to people in different [00:14:00] ways, but I'm curious about in your experience, Especially performing these types of songs. How have you seen the way that they're able to play a role for people in their, their faith journey?

Ben Truman: Yeah. You know, when I think about core memories in terms of my faith. So many of them are related to music, right? You know, there's the back in the day at EFY listening singing along to Army of Helaman, you know I mean, I mean as like kind of

Morgan Jones Pearson: we all know what you're talking about

Ben Truman: But I remember being like what's happening to me, you know But then like you grow older and then you have experiences listening to you know, come thou fount of every blessing And the incredible lyric in that song, and you're going, wow.

And then, so, I, I was, and, and, talk about a song that's not shallow, right? Like, Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing is this beautifully haunting confession, you know, um, prone to wander, Lord I feel it, prone to leave the God I love. What a great template [00:15:00] for tapping into what's real as we kind of go down our faith journey.

And so, those kind of songs definitely inspired me, and we, we, we mentioned before. We have the chance to be part of the Nashville Tribute Band now and those songs, uh, have been awesome to be a part of and sing along with over the years because they all speak to these same things we've been talking about.

And I, uh, you know, we were having a conversation with our buddy, Dave Butler. Not too long ago from don't miss this and we were talking about the place of music in our church in our in our culture and how there's been some steps taken to maybe make things a little bit more contemporary a little bit more like Accessible especially for younger people so that there there be an entrance into interest into the church through music and I think that's extremely important and pivotal and And as you go down from there, you know, building line upon line, my, what we were discussing is how important I think it is to also have music that doesn't just [00:16:00] capture interest from the get go, but then there's also music that is a companion to the deepest, heaviest parts of your faith journey.

And there's been that, and we hope to be a part of that going forward.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Really quickly, I think, I'm glad that you brought up Nashville Tribute Band because I think that is something that has played into my personal faith journey because Nashville Tribute Band was huge on my mission. And so it's almost like a soundtrack for the things that I experienced as a missionary.

And I know that I'm, I know that I'm not alone in that. But also I, as you were talking reminded me, my mom actually just sent me a talk that she gave in church and my mom in the past few years has fallen in love with Christian music and praise music. And she has this playlist that she turns on anytime she's having a hard time.

And in her talk, she [00:17:00] said, when I'm having a hard day and the problems of life are weighing me down, I just have to turn on music that talks about the savior and praises him. And in no time, I feel like a different person. It can even make me feel like dancing. And I think like the ability that music has to invite the spirit and to change a day to change and experience to help us.

change our perspective about something is just so incredibly powerful. Shifting gears a little bit. You are both fathers. Ben, you have four kids. Is that right?

Ben Truman: Just had our fourth boy

Morgan Jones Pearson: crushing it. And then Chad, you and your wife went through quite the journey to get your little one here. And after 12 years of marriage, you had a little baby boy.

I'm curious. How do you balance the life of being a husband and a father and also a musician. Both of you.

Chad Truman: I mean, you know, uh, I'm working [00:18:00] on it, right? It's it's still pretty new, but first and foremost, I am just so grateful to have a little son, a little, a little guy that's ours, you know, that we get to take care of.

It's been, of course, challenging and all the things, but all of those hard nights or hard moments are completely eclipsed, right, by the joy of Him. We chatted with Morgan a little bit earlier before we started recording about the joy of just hearing them laugh, like truly there's some healing in that.

And yeah, the, the 12 years of marriage, we did IVF, you know, we, we've tried for eight years in those last year or two of those eight years, we tried IUIs and IVF. And of course there's a money aspect, but really it's the emphasis is the amount of like hope. And is it going to be, is it going to work this time?

And so many shots. My wife had so many shots. My gosh. Anyone who obviously is familiar with IVF knows. And so, it's [00:19:00] been so wonderful to have him. And then you go, okay, so now we have a baby boy. Now he's one. There's ten hours that he's awake every day. So, who's gonna watch him? Like, just the simple thing of when you've, you know, when you've gone so many years as just an adult, right?

And it sounds, I'm purposely trying to make it very like, Uh, I guess over exaggerated, but in a way, I, it's such a beautiful realization of my gosh, every parent, our parents, they have this same situation where they have to choose, well, at least good parents have to choose to give up something because they just gained something else.

You can't have everything. There's trade offs in life, right? There is a, there is a loss of other things. And that sacrifice because of how dependent those, the little, the little ones are anyway, it's just made me appreciate [00:20:00] mothers across the world and what they go through, um, women in general. And, but, but then any parents like this is a, uh, a beautiful, hard test.

And of course. Makes me appreciate just a lot more, which is just a tiny bit more of how much our Heavenly Father loves us, right? And, ultimately, having the perspective that this is all, uh, like how it's supposed to be, I guess, that really helps to be balanced. To go, you know, to kind of hone in with your question.

That it's literally helping me like cut out just random good things that you do or okay things like it makes you try to like, okay, less social media. My gosh, I'm on my phone. He wants to play with me. Like all those little things. It helps. Because you realize, actually, here's one last comparison to kind of drive the point.

Yeah. When I was on the mission, [00:21:00] any, any good missionary feels the same way. It is such a blessing. You have one thing to focus on. There's no dating. There's no meeting, needing to make money. There's no, what am I doing with my life? Or, you know, all those questions of insecurity or like, uh, question marks that you don't know what to do.

There's such a piece of that, right? And then you get home and it's kind of like, Oh, I don't. Okay. Now it's all hitting you again. Right? Getting married. One is a huge way of like, okay, now you're honed in and then getting, like having children added to your life. It is the biggest, it's the closest thing I've had since the mission of like, this is specific and the priority is clear.

It's not me. It's them. And I loved that on the mission and I'm loving it now.

Morgan Jones Pearson: That's such a good comparison. I always tell people talking about coming home from a mission. I remember I have this very distinct memory of being on the airplane and writing down like goals for how I wanted to be [00:22:00] post mission.

And I wrote down like, study my scriptures an hour every morning. And I thought it seemed realistic. As like a commissionary coming home and then you get home and you're like, what in the world was I thinking and I said that to my dad shortly after getting home. I was like, I just feel like I'm like failing myself.

Like I'm not even I'm struggling to study my scriptures for 20 minutes. And my dad told me that he remembered writing the exact same thing in his journal on the way home. And it's just life gets, you know, so in your way, but I agree with you. There's something about these additional responsibilities. And I think something to do with covenants as well, that allows you to be more honed in.

And I love that. I love that comparison that you made. Ben, any thoughts on this as the veteran dad over here, because Chad and I are newbies.

Ben Truman: Oh man, I'll tell you what, I feel like a veteran, but it doesn't mean I'm an expert, but I've been in the trenches for quite [00:23:00] a while. I'll just say this like in, in, in the name of the question of like balancing your career and then your faith or, or your, or being a parent.

You know, I think Chad would agree with this. Like music's like all careers, as you pursue it, it's going to take a lot of sacrifice. It takes a lot of time. Music's unique in that it it's man, you really got to, you almost have to, whether you want to or not be like, Hey, look at me, you know, here's my Instagram reel and here's my new song.

And here's my new, this and Oh, hopefully this is getting the algorithm right. And all these things that you really don't want to care about, but just in the name of putting the song out there, you kind of have to, I'm so grateful for the check. And balance though, of being a parent and how that being a parent and being a good husband and good father is just so much more of a priority for me than any goal related to the music, even though those goals are pretty big.

And so I'm just grateful that in any moment where those priorities seem to be [00:24:00] clashing and you have to pick one or the other, it's a simple, it's a simple choice. And I think I'm grateful for my parents who showed us what that looked like. And I'm hopefully doing a good job for, for my boys now.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I'm sure that you are okay.

I'd like to, before we, so I kind of moving toward another part of this interview, I'd love to kind of hone in on some of the lyrics to some of your songs because I think the two of you are so talented and I I've pulled a couple that stand out to me. In the song, old child, you say, you see, he knew the long before you were in the womb and he felt you in the garden under the full moon, but still you wonder how it ever could have been for you.

And then in the song before the calm, you sing the Holy Spirit whispers, this will all be for your good, but you can't help but wonder how it ever could. [00:25:00] But remember in the garden where blood did fall, the God of heaven suffered it all. Your pain is like the empty tomb before her name he called. It's a miracle.

And those two, I found an interesting contrast I felt like between those two songs because both of them talk about the atonement of Jesus Christ. So I wondered how your testimony of the atonement of Christ has been strengthened. through the experience of writing these Christ centered songs.

Ben Truman: Yeah, well, thank you for pulling out those lyrics.

Those are all lyrics that are especially, um, important to us from, from our songs. Um, I think, you know, back to a question from earlier, we're just deciding how to make Christian music and is it harder than secular music and stuff like that. I think we really cared about saying things that were sincere and we wanted to, and that made us ask the question, look, what is sincere to us and what do we believe and what is important to us?

Of course, we wanted to make sure our songs could point [00:26:00] people to the atonement. And what is that and how does that apply and how do people experience that in their life? And one thing that kept coming back to us is just the thought of how many folks, or even us at times, are just down and out and we are not connecting.

With the atonement, um, because we're too sad to even think about it, right? We're too, we're feeling too many things and we can't even get there. And, um, and in cases where you feel like it doesn't apply to you or somehow it can't work for you. And we just wanted to reassure people that It in fact can, especially, especially in moments where you don't know how getting that confidence that it will, um, there's that moment in the song before the calm where it says, our pain is like the empty tomb before her name he called, right?

So right before he said, Mary, you know, she's looking at an empty team tomb thinking all is lost and having nothing but questions and nothing but just sadness when [00:27:00] in reality, all was solved. Everything amazing had was happening. She just didn't know it and it took nothing more than the master's word for her to realize it.

And so I think these songs are kind of hopefully encouraging for the people who are still in that moment before he has said your name to know that that is coming and that this is all part of something designed for our good. Amen.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Another one that I want to, I want to touch on, on your new Christmas album, you have a song called God Blessed Us Everyone.

In that song you sing, not everyone saw the star, not everyone traveled far, not everyone has it figured out or knows just what they believe right now. Not everyone is in the pew, not everyone knows it's true, not everyone has heard his name, but he was born for them just the same. And I love that because I think it touches on a lot of different [00:28:00] faith circumstances, and it almost like brings to mind different people, at least for me.

Why do you feel that this is an important message to communicate right now in 2023? And I'm curious, like, Why was it important for you all to communicate that on a Christmas album?

Chad Truman: Um, well, the first thing that comes to mind is, um, some dear friends, we got together a few years ago and a couple years ago, and they shared with us that they had questions.

And when they met with their, you know, local bishop and he was, you know, like, well, you know, people go through faith crisis and this, this, and this, you know, and they were like, I don't know if, I think we're going through a faith crisis. We just have questions and I think it's all, it's very important to seek and we have a bunch of people that are good people seeking answers and just because they don't have the answers, like [00:29:00] I feel like a lot of times it's much more, people actually have a high level of belief.

But there might be something that got a misconception or something was thrown off. A young woman's teacher said something, whatever, and a misbelief came in about not, maybe even about who God is, or even just about the, the people that kind of play that God role in our lives are like the people that teach us about God.

And it just kind of throws things off and the hardest and the best thing to do. That's all of us in some form. So I don't want to like push people away when they have questions. Right. We all have our version of that. And so like, no, not everyone knows what they believe right now. That's beautiful. Like.

That's, that's life, you know, and to just mourn with those who mourn instead of pushing those people away because, oh, you, you're having a faith crisis. Like you don't have faith. You're not believing. No, I'm in the trenches trying to figure this out. [00:30:00] That is faith action, right? Figuring it out. That is faith.

Morgan Jones Pearson: I could not agree more. And before I give Ben a chance to chime in, if he wants to, I just want to say, I think that is one thing that I would love to see Kind of go away is that term faith crisis because I think it just suggests that people are in a panic that you're You can't have questions without feeling panic.

And I I personally am a believer that That feeling of panic is a tool of the adversary. He, he's the one that wants us to feel like, you know, you got to make a decision right now. Um, you don't have time to figure it out. And, and God is a God of eternal progression. I think I've said this on this show before, but I just think if we could eliminate that idea that people are in a crisis and rather allow space [00:31:00] for figuring things out, taking time, asking questions.

I think we'd all be in a much better place. Ben, do you have any other thoughts on that?

Ben Truman: Yeah. You know, just in answering why for this Christmas album, you know, I don't know if this is still a thing, but it seemed like there was a moment there a few years ago where like, we had to be careful saying Merry Christmas to people in case, in case that's not something they wanted to hear.

So it's like, we have to be happy holidays, you know, or whatever. And I was, and you know, whatever I, that was its own thing. But as we were writing this song, I was like, The thing is Christmas, um, I believe is a blessing unto all, you know, in the scriptures like God, you know, peace on earth, goodwill to men, like it's to all men.

And I want, we just wanted the song to be representative of how universally beautiful the birth of the savior was and what that meant for everybody, because no matter where you are at on your faith [00:32:00] journey. There are blessings that you receive because of what happened and what happened and what we celebrate at Christmas.

So this is a song for everybody because Christmas is for everybody. Again, just more confidence in the moments where you're not sure where you're at. That this, uh, is something for you

Morgan Jones Pearson: love that, uh, before we get to our last question, I want to kind of tease out. I understand that Nashville tribute band has a Book of Mormon themed album coming out. Is that true? And what can you kind of give us to look forward to there?

Chad Truman: Don't take the bait, Ben. We were sworn to secrecy.

Ben Truman: You know what? I actually, I actually called up Jason, who's our, uh, our, our leader in the Nashville tribute band.

And, um, I said, Hey, can I talk about this on the podcast? He says, yeah, go for it. Cause we haven't really told anybody yet, [00:33:00] but yeah, we're super excited. There's a brand new album, uh, coming out. That's about the book of Mormon. It's called witness a Nashville tribute to the book of Mormon. And, uh, so excited.

There's some songs on here that I'm just, I'm thrilled about. And, uh, we're excited to be a part of it. It's coming early January, like on the third or something. So, uh, be looking forward. It's going to be a companion for the come follow me this

Morgan Jones Pearson: next year. This is how I'm going to get into your dad, because I've already had Jason on.

There you go. So, this is how I swoop in.

Chad Truman: I love it.

Ben Truman: Do you, yeah, if he doesn't answer, just let us know, we'll, we'll, we'll tackle him.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Okay, perfect. Well, my last question for you is what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Chad Truman: The thing that pops in my head is having a few experiences. Growing up, great family, great parents, faith was a [00:34:00] part of our world. We attended church, and I gained what I call a general testimony.

And then serving a mission, of course, for most of us, right? It's a test of that testimony, a test of, do I really want to be doing this for two years, right? Uh, I remember asking that after about two weeks. And then I just had this feeling, after your faith comes the witness, right? And then that very night, I had the tiniest, beautiful, little witness.

And it was like, it basically wasn't like, it's all true. It wasn't that. It was, go a little bit longer, keep going, right? And then about, um, about three or four months later, I had my, a very cool personal experience with forgiveness and the atonement. And that was like this, my gosh, okay, this is, it's, it's real and I'm starting to feel the tangible of it.

And then later, a few years later in my life, there was an experience where I felt [00:35:00] something out of this earth about the first vision, about the Book of Mormon, and that, those became my, um, specific testimonies. And then everything else is a general testimony. And the coolest part is, is that currently, right, as I continue to add more and more things, they can have more and more specifics.

Um, but the coolest part is, is that my takeaway now is things can happen. A BYU professor can say something and depending on the angle, it can be misconstrued and. That has so little to do with my testimony and my specific experience with God. And I say that only in the best way, because I feel like when you anchor with God, that allows you to be All in or some form of that right as you keep on building what all in means, you [00:36:00] know, building up on it Anyway, I'm just so grateful for those specific testimonies because now they are the the bedrock You know the anchor for me, you know every day or every trial that comes next

Morgan Jones Pearson: We were just talking about something along those lines in Sunday school yesterday about how?

Experience allows you to kind of take out the middleman. Mm hmm And when you've had a personal experience with God, you're no longer relying on someone else. You are taking out that middleman and you have the ability to just have that personal relationship with God. And it's hard to, it's hard to throw that out.

And so I love that. Ben, what does it mean to you to be all in the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Ben Truman: It's funny. I didn't think Chad and I were going to have similar answers, but his got there where I, where I'm going. There's this concept of being chill. And committed that I always think about where, um, I'm no [00:37:00] perfect member of the church, um, but I'm committed and there's, and I don't know that's born out of the same things Chad was just talking about and I will ebb and flow on opinions and I will ebb and flow in current confidence in certain things.

pieces of testimony, but the, the rod is just going to remain in my hands. And that's what I mean by that's what I, that's what all in is for me. I will go through this experience committed and I will, and I will, uh, respond to things as I do, but nothing will, will row the boat enough to toss me. And. And that keeps you in the game and that keeps you building up precept upon precept and that whole thing.

And that's what's led us here today. And so all in baby.

Morgan Jones Pearson: You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you.

Chad Truman: Yeah, no, thanks for having us on Morgan. Appreciate you.

Ben Truman: You're awesome.

Morgan Jones Pearson: Big thanks to [00:38:00] Chad and Ben Truman for joining us on today's episode. And thank you as always for taking the time to listen.

I hope this holiday season is treating you well and we'll look forward to. being with you for one last episode before Christmas next week.