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{Single Saints} Is Success the Kiss of Death for a Single Woman?

Vera Taylor - March 08, 2012

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I've been confronted with some surprising reactions from others to my professional success, and it has me wondering if the career I didn't choose overshadows the life I would choose in a heartbeat.

I have a good job and recently got a promotion at work. Shortly after the promotion was public I ran into an old friend--a guy who I was in a singles ward with several years ago. He is around my age (mid-30’s), single, educated, has a decent job, and is an overall nice and quality guy. We caught up on each other’s lives and I mentioned my promotion. Instead of saying “congratulations” or “that’s awesome” the first words out if his mouth were: “Be careful.”

What?!!?

He followed that up with “Don’t get too successful; we want you married sooner rather than later.” (Yeah, I don’t know who “we” is either.)

I wish I had a super smart comeback to say to him but instead I froze up and then laughed it off. However, his comment nagged at me all night, and I have thought about it many times since.

Let me be clear: I know he was well meaning, and I don’t want to unfairly criticize and single him out since I have heard similar comments from other sources. I do, however, want to comment on the inference that being a successful woman in the workplace diminishes opportunities to get married. 

I have heard the statistics that the more educated a woman is the less likely she is to marry.  I have heard the same sentiment expressed about successful working women.  What I don’t really know is . . . is it true?

I'm guessing these statistics/assumptions stem from women who have pushed off marriage and children in order to climb the corporate ladder. And I know there are women who consciously choose career over family. But honestly, I don’t know too many single Mormon women that fall into those categories.  I do know plenty of single women that are working, doing well in their careers, getting promoted, and enjoying what they do, but most are still actively hoping for and seeking a relationship that will end in marriage and motherhood. And before that future is realized (if it is ever realized), what are we supposed to do?

I realize my friend’s problem isn’t with me having a job. So, is it that I’m doing well at it?  I would think a guy would be thrilled to date a woman who is doing well in her career. Right? I mean, think of the 401K she has started! The down-payment their combined incomes could procure!

Is it an ego thing? I know some men worry they can’t provide a woman what her dad provided for her family, so is worrying that he can’t provide the same way she can an extension of that insecurity? 

Is it because a man needs to feel needed, so he is more attracted to the kind of women who, well, need him more? It is true that I don’t “need” a man to financially provide for me. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t love to have one to rely on. And to take my car in to be serviced. And do anything that requires advanced power tools. (See, I’m needy!)

It is easy for me to excuse his comments as ridiculous and to exclaim that any guy who has a problem with or is intimidated by my success isn’t the right guy––but perhaps that oversimplifies the issue. Is it possible for the career you didn’t choose to prevent you from having the life you’d choose in an instant, if the right opportunity presented itself? 

Deep down I just don’t believe this to be true. I can’t believe it. I do suspect, however, that all the presumptions and prejudices we develop around jobs, circumstances, appearance, etc., just make it that much harder to find the right person. To be fair, I am not innocent of making unfair judgments about, for example, never married guys in their late 30′s/early 40′s.  I automatically assume they are either commitment-phobic or socially challenged. Not fair; true sometimes––but not fair.

I suspect no matter what our circumstance, it would behoove us to be a little more careful with our judgments and assumptions. I’ll try if you do.

© LDS Living, 2012.
Comments 37 comments

brentdowdle said...

10:41 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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One way to avoid the stereotypes of the "provider" is to focus, instead, on spiritual attraction. Your friend, if he meant "me" when he said "we" may be telling you that he is spiritually attracted to you. The commitment to marry is NOT about where the money will come from. It's an ETERNAL commitment, and will last FAR after this telestial world is history. The Lord provides everything. All the man (or woman) does is to work to earn money to assist in that effort. Shift your focus, and look him up, and confront him, or another you feel "led" to contact, and don't let your temporary, temporal work mess up your eternal relationship. I write this with kindness, and based on what I have learned about LDS relationships, which are FAR more important than the telestial marriages the world enjoys.

sassyspunk said...

10:46 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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It is really disheartening to be an older single woman in the church and run into comments and attitude like that from other men. I found that men outside the church have a lot more interest in your success and encourage you to be more and what you want to be. It shouldn't be that way. Men in the church should be proud of our success. It is one more test for us and the more I dated inside the church, and eventually even tried outside the church, the less ambitious the lds males were who would be interested in me. And even then the 'good' ones arent always who they say they are. The good LDS man i dated before my now husband was YM president and temple recommend holding, he sounded and seemed like the perfect catch - and then it turned out he was having an affair with the married YW president. So it makes it even harder to see the good men out there that are LDS. Luckily, last year i had found a great LDS guy to marry - he supports me in my career choices and in any path I want to go - hopefully motherhood soon... but I was 34 and I am sad everyday that I don't know more good LDS men that would be great for my LDS older female friends. They are a rare find but we have to believe and hope they are out there. Without hope, what do we have?

bgtaylor4 said...

10:48 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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You dismissed what I think is the issue. Granted this is wide swath of generalization. But it really is an ego thing. Men do need to be needed. In order to take on being depended upon (wife and kids) they need to be depended upon. And if you don't need a man, if your existence doesn't literally depend upon a man taking care of you, you are less attractive as a mate to those men who at heart react and feel that way. And that would be most men. Granted, there are exceptions. And you might not want to settle for less than those exceptions. But you are narrowing your opportunity. Not saying that this is a great thing or that is right. But it is the median reality of Mars versus Venus.

ama said...

10:55 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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I was in my 30's when I got married so I can understand where you're coming from. For me, it was very unattractive if a lady had sat around waiting to be married and not moved on with her education, career, etc. It showed lack of self-confidence and ambition and I didn't want a girl who couldn't think on her own. From my experience, guys who didn't want girls to be successful fell into these categories: 1. Insecure with themselves 2. Ego-maniacs 3. A combination of #1 and #2 My advice is to keep being successful and reaching for your goals and what makes you happy. It says in the scriptures that light attracts light and you will attract a guy who isn't intimidated with you, but is impressed by your success. All other guys aren't worth your time so don't worry about being successful or trying to fit into their mold. You wouldn't be happy with them anyways. http://www.graceforgrace.com

bethanymom said...

10:59 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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BGTAYLOR4: What a horrible thing to think. I as a single woman in my 30's need to make myself less successful so I can attract a man who needs me to be needy for him?!? Are you kidding me? Why would I want a man who feels I am not acceptable to marry if I am self-sufficient? I need a husband for any things: the priesthood in my home, an eternal companion, a help-mate, someone to help round out my experiences, someone to nudge me to stretch and grow. But certianly I DON'T need someone who wants me to be less than my best just so he can feel better about himself!!

leecrites said...

11:12 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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My initial thought was to make a joke about "cougars" (successful women attracted to younger men), but I thought better after I read some of the comments. As someone who has been involved in business and leadership longer than the average person in this country has been alive, I'll toss one thing into the soup that hasn't been addressed yet: Management Attitude. There is a stereotype comment that goes something like "why is that women who try to act like men in business always seem to adopt the worst qualities of men?" Having dealt with "upper management types" for years, I can say that I'm glad I'm not married to one. Now before you slam me as misogynistic, the previous comment actually slams both sexes -- who have those negative personality traits. If *I* were the dude who was your close friend, and *I* made the "be careful" comment to you, it wouldn't be about your success, but about adopting the mindset/attitude that seems ubiquitous to the upper ranks of management.

keeperofthestairs said...

11:46 AM
on Mar 08, 2012

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First I have to say I completely agree with 'leecrites'. I am a woman who has been both married and single again, and had both success and lack of success in business. I am now squarely in midlife. Anyone who gets used to a style of domination and/or being in charge or directive is susceptible to bringing those qualities to his/her personal relationships. It doesn't work well for either men or women, but it seems to be less tolerated in women. I know plenty of very successful women who are in good relationships or marriages - it isn't the success that scares off potential mates, it is the ability to participate in the flexibility and softness and kindness necessary for a successful relationship. It is about your ability to bring out the best in your partner - not just your partner's ability to bring out the best in you.

mimke said...

12:17 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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Rather than jump to conclusions about prejudice or insecurity, let's look at what he actually said, shall we? "Be careful." He didn't say that successful women are unattractive or that success was bad. He just said to be careful. "Don't get too successful; we want you to be married sooner rather than later" (ignore the we if that's what you're getting hung up on. Many people want to see single women get married. Yourself included, right?) There are women in the world who seek to be successful. There are women who wish to be married, but instead seek success because they haven't found the right person for whatever reason. "We want you to be married sooner rather than later." Don't get so caught up in your career that you put off marriage. You want to be married, that's wonderful for you. But there are other women who have been in your place that have chosen to pursue career instead. "Be careful," don't become one of those women.

macho_mz said...

12:23 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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I agree that part of is about ego on the guy’s part, but I have found that many men (and women) make assumptions about women based on the job they choose. Some guys seem to have an "approved job list for women” and any woman who is working in or majoring in something else is assumed to not be focused on marriage and family. I have been out with so many guys who, after hearing that I work in IT, respond with nothing but, “huh…” and a look on their face like they smelled something bad. It seems that if you are anything other than a teacher, nurse, or something else that is a more expected job for women, you are automatically assumed to be a boot stomping feminist. I am very excited about the idea of having a husband and family, but at present, I am a 32 year old single woman who needs to support herself!

supernatural said...

01:02 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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I am a single, faithful, LDS priesthood holder. I am successful in my field of study and have a decent/stable job. I am a few years older than mid-30's age group, but not that much older than the late 30's group that it should be a big deal. I've both dated and written successful women in that age group. I'm certainly not intimidated by a successful woman, in fact I find that attractive; especially if the woman has done more with her life than travel the world with their friends. In my experience it is not just the priesthood brethren that are "hanging out" and "taking extravagant vacations" as President has talked about; women are doing the same things. I have previously been married, but divorced after hoping and praying for 2 years that my wife would return to the gospel and repent of her ongoing infidelities. I have been told that I am "cute" but of course beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and I don't believe I am attractive to all women. Being a successful in my career and faithful in the Gospel I don't feel that any woman would have to "settle" for me. With all of that said, it has been my experience that many women in this age range aren't truly interested in marriage, but are more interested in their career and traveling the world. Although I have expressed interest in starting a new family the women have not been receptive to the idea or have other objections. One woman told me that I "would be and old dad." Huh? It's not like I'm bedridden or anything. What would it matter if I'm a little older than most dads. One of my brothers recently had a baby and I'm not that much older than him. I certainly wasn't saying the woman would be an old mom. And, in the long run, 100 years from now (hopefully during the millennium)it won't matter how old either of us were. I do not write this in any way to offend anyone. I pray that each woman obtain their heart's desire. My suggestion is if you are in an atypical age range, then perhaps it is time to be more open minded and to look for atypical answers. I'm not saying that anyone should lower their standards, but perhaps you won't be able to find a 30 something, faithful priesthood holder that has never been married. Remember that the prophets have told us that almost any couple can have a successful marriage as long as they are both committed to the marriage and to the Gospel. That certainly doesn't mean you won't have challenges, but as long as the two stand together they can overcome any obstacles. God bless.

kimberlina said...

01:04 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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I too was married in my thirties after a long and difficult wait. Although I didn't want to be single (much like a faithful LDS couple who desires with all their hearts to be parents but can't have children), I am so grateful that I didn't stand still in my life. I traveled, got a masters degree and started a PhD. Now that I have four small children and my life is all about diapers and car seats, I know how blessed I was to accomplish all I did before getting married, even if at the time that's not what I wanted. I often felt when I was single that maybe I was too educated, too well-traveled, or even too smart. But, in the end those qualities are exactly what attracted my husband to me. He is five years younger than me and at the time hadn't finished college (he has since gotten his masters) but because of his life experiences, he said he wanted a woman who "had it together" and who wanted an eternal family. I learned that finding your eternal companion has NOTHING to do with anything other than faithfulness to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's not a question of IF a faithful woman will find an eternal companion but WHEN.

chinookmama said...

01:35 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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I could say some really unkind hints about the friend who made the distressing comment, but I won't. What I will say is that as a convert to the church and a mid-30's, well educated and ambitious woman I am shocked weekly by the really sexist and antiquated attitudes that are accepted in LDS circles with regards to women's education and career attainments. You have no reason to question who you are or apologize and explain away what you are doing to anyone but your Father in Heaven, period! I got married in my 30's, had my son ahead later and have gone on to finish my professional degrees. My husband who is younger than me has been my biggest fan. The guts who can't function in life and be married are the ones who question what you are doing. Women outside of the church realized this thirty years ago. It's time to start fulfilling our potential instead of waiting for some guy to approve of it. Don't ask permission to be successful, it's just like your age: it gets bigger and better with each year. My husband is an RM who was raised in the church, maybe you're is just waiting for you to introduce him to the Gospel. I'd stop waiting for silly LDS boys to grow up, just go out and get your man and get on with your life!!

lb35 said...

01:44 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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Elder Oaks did say in April 2011 “I am sure that some anxiously seeking young men would want me to add that there are some young women whose desires for a worthy marriage and children rank far below their desires for a career or other mortal distinctions. Both men and women need righteous desires that will lead them to eternal life.” But that does not mean that someone who has a good job has the wrong desires. I am a 41-yr old man and have never been married, am not socially challenged (you mean weird, right?) nor am I afraid of commitment. I have dated lots of women, hoping and praying one will fall in love with me. I just started something with a woman who is a teacher in a very dead end place. But three years ago I was dating a woman who has a master's degree and was doing very well in her field. We never compared salaries but I guess she was in the same $75K to $100K range as me, and that did not bother me, nor is the money issue a turn on. Once we became very exclusive, she made it clear that she was eager to get married and be a fulltime mother in the home. After many blissful months of dating, she "got the answer to her prayers" and we broke up but remained good friends. (When she bought herself a home last year I helped her move, and when she got married a couple months ago, she invited me to the reception.) I find that women in "non-traditional" jobs have an interesting aspect about them. I could be happy with a teacher or a nurse, but have also had great experiences with lawyers, accountants, and business women of all types. The important thing is that women are involved in whatever opportunities to meet men and take chances to have dates whenever asked. If you go to your singles ward, institute, and FHE, don't feel guilty about having a good job. Also, don't hold yourself back from your potential. I have several friends who got married to RMs at BYU that seemed great but turned out to be into porn, having sex with prostitutes, and were abusive in every way. Some of these friends are doing quite well supporting their kids w/o the losers they divorced, but others struggle to live comfortably.

ricklds said...

01:55 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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Sorry to mister old friend, but you are an idiot. And that is not judgmental, but observational. Grow up. Mature. You won't succeed in anything with an attitude like that. "Be careful" could be good advice to everyone all the time, if given with honorable intent. However, the follow-up comment was immature, ill-advised, arrogant, uneducated, bigoted, and more -- AND, the follow-up comment negates any 'good intention' that might have been possible from the 'be careful' first words. Please add insensitive, unloving, uncaring, unfriendly, un-Christlike. I am also appalled by all of the 'excuse-making' or attempted 'justifying' comments that have been submitted -- when will we simply be as 'tough-loving' to such comments as these, as we all attempt to be with our children and teen-agers when we are teaching them. We simply don't stand for such behavior with our children, but we allow it in grown-ups?? And, PS to successful and educated sister(s): statistics overwhelmingly indicate that marriage is more likely for college educated women (and men) than for non-college-educated -- it is the uneducated that are simply not getting married. Same goes for other family-related statistics such as unwed births, i.e. 70% of all births for non-college-educated vs less than 10% for college educated. Saving marriage, stastically speaking, would seem to depend very highly upon college education of BOTH men and women. Get educated. Be successful. Get married. Have a family. Of course, my advice is to get married before age 25 and start having kids right away -- finish college and become successful WITH a family!

familyman said...

02:07 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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Well here I go and I will probably get in trouble. I try to follow the gospel and it says that we are to have families if we can and also family first. Success should not be looked at through a worldly perspective it should be looked at though a eternal perspective. I have always felt that to be a mother is probably the most sacred calling on this earth and should take presidence over career and actually even the father or husband should have family first and not put their success over the family and or getting married. I don not think a person is successful until they have raised a family or succeeded at enduring to the end. The world looks at success differently than Mormons do the world looks at how much worldly possessions you have or status. I don't believe in putting off marriage for college or career in fact I wanted my wife and I together to help each other out through school. We have all been given special traits and abilities to be mothers and fathers if we ignore those for career then we are not doing what we have been asked to do by our Heavenly Father. My wife and I got married put each other through school and had kids at the same time. So I went to school, went to work and watched the kids and we have 6 beautiful children. My son has been looking for a wife that is what he is suppose to do but most of them are putting of getting married for school and missions. I don't think that is church policy. I know allot of people not having children or just a couple so they can have the big house and the boat and high dollar car is that what the gospel teaches. I figure if you meet the right person, pray about it and it is right then don't put it off.

morngloryhm said...

02:43 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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Thank you for articulating so well what we've been feeling for years. What is it we're expected to do with ourselves while we wait for Mr. "Time & Eternity?" Of course we're going to get educated and develop our careers! Ihe irony is that often we go through all this personal development in preparation for being a better partner. I'm 32 year old newlywedI married a man who considers it a badge of honor to be with a successful woman. It took a long time to find him, but it's worth it to be with a man who's got that figured out. Be Ye Men!

star11277 said...

06:28 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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First of all congratulations on your promotion!!!! I wish more women would get educated instead of focusing all their time..... waiting for their companion???!!! Because really, we never know when we are going to meet our companion. I got married at 37 years old, my husband was 39, both of us were never married before. Luckily I educated myself and did something instead of waiting and crying or being miserable. Of course we both wanted to get married earlier, but it did not happen. We met late and we got married late, but it was all worth the waiting!!!! He told me he always wanted to meet a smart and educated woman and that is one of the things he loves the most about me. He is very supportive of my career and all the things I have done and that is why I dearly love him. I dated men who seem to consider my high education something they should get rid off, instead of considering of precious value. I am a PhD Molecular Biology Scientist, yes I spent more than 10 years educating myself but I consider it a blessing and an opportunity I was given by God and I am sure it will become a blessing for my baby girl who will be born in May. yes, it took a long time to find this sort of man who values me for my intellectual qualities and ambition, but it is worth to be with a man who got that figured it out!!!!!!!

wallywilly said...

07:24 PM
on Mar 08, 2012

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I am an older, LDS singles man and grew up during the women's liberation movement. Personally, I am attracted to successful women. To get where they are they've had to work hard and develop their talents. People who are developed are generally more attractive, unless one is insecure about who he is. If a man is not attracted to a successful woman, then he is either: (1) insecure; (2) a rigid thinker, i.e., thinks that a woman should be a home body; or, (3) both. The glory of God is intelligence. Hail to the successful women! I wish there were more of them.

handyman said...

05:32 AM
on Mar 09, 2012

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I would suggest that you just not really dwell to much on what others thought process takes place. I would suggest that all that really matters is how well you feel comfortable in how Heavenly Father would deem you spiritually. In other words if you were standing next to God. How would you like him to introduce you to others?

jebt said...

11:11 AM
on Mar 09, 2012

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I liked what "mimke" said. Here is my suggestion, ask the guy exactly what he meant. This will give you the opportunity to educate him as well by letting him know where you are in life. We don't always know what the Lord has planned for us and when those plans will come about. As for myself, I am a mother of four. I worked full-time throughout my marriage, my husband was a stay-at-home dad (not he works part time with the youngest in high school). Was that what I had originally planned? Not at all, but that is how it worked out for us and it worked well.

rayofsunshine said...

11:39 AM
on Mar 09, 2012

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there is a good reason God said "the natural man is an enemy to God". I have to admit I am pretty frustrated with what I see happening. I hate to make blanket statements because of course there is never an "all", but it seems women almost have to dummy down to men. Between the porn problem and the plain lack of ambition there is a growing number of men who are stuck. The mumbers are out there, it's not just in the church. Women are gaining in education and job success and passing the male population up in most every field. So what are we suppose to do? Sit around and wait for them to catch up?It's not just single men either. I am in mid life crisis where we should be retiring and because of the financial crisis and a dishonest man we have lost everything. My husband has just given up. Oh he encourages me to go find a job but he is paralyzed by fear. And basically I think because women,in general, are more faith driven we are less fearful and there for more successful. Just my opinion.

gabrielag said...

07:29 AM
on Mar 10, 2012

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I suppose it all depends on how you define 'kiss of death'. If by this you mean you are spiritually fit, emotionally healthy, physically and intellectully at the top of your game and financially responsible and self sufficient, how can this possibly be like death in any way? Talking from experience here....im a doctor, absolutely love my career, just acquired an awesome piece of investment real estate, im about to acquire a second one and i have everything i can possibly want. Especially a rich spiritual connection that gives meaning to it all. Yes. There s plenty of suitors and delightful friends to share the multiple blessings with... Do i want to give any of that up? Absolutely not.... As for marriage...it's a huge commitment with amazing rewards and challenges as well. I've been there and if spiritually guided i will consider it again. This time around the only thing that can work is a match made in heaven. Let s say that my first experience was less than ideal despite the fact that i entered it with the faith if a child and when i decided to leave because of physical abuse i was delighted to have a way to support myself and my two kids....in style. Whoo hooo! Bottom line- we are really here to do God s will. Amazing good fortune, fulfillment and happiness flow from that... Enjoy your freedom and your brains...they ll take you to amazing places that are not to be missed. Gabriela G

ldscientist said...

08:58 AM
on Mar 10, 2012

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You can tell by my "Nickname" most about me... I Have loved learning and knowledge since i have memory. I had a hard time dating during my 20's because, according to people " i was way to sucessfull". Even though i confess that sometimes i felt bad because of that, nothing was stronger that my hunger for knowledge. I got a PhD in Genetics and i was literally considered "weird" by most of the people around me, not outside the church, but in the church (people outside the church was always very nice to me about my accomplishments). Being a woman scientist and Mormon, never has been easy; however i knew that God KNEW me and KNEW where i was and that in his time, he would consecrate my efforts to my benefit. In my early 30's i met a handsome LDS guy, Scientist as me in his mid twenties. Today, we are happily married and with the perspective to keep working at the time we raise a family. Women, never stop growing...if someone don't want to go where you are, He simply DOES NOT deserve you!

mstorre2 said...

09:21 AM
on Mar 10, 2012

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I have heard the same comment repeatedly in my professional life- don't become too successful- it will hurt your chance of finding love. Well, here is my two cents- men and women of God come in all sizes, shapes and professions. As sons and daughters of God we know that it is the heart that counts. Our pure heart is the only measure of worth to our Father in Heaven. And if in your heart you are looking for eternal, lasting love, then faith takes over and everything else you are doing in your life along the way brings joy, development, contentment and peace. The person who loves you for WHO you are is the only person you want in your life anyway! My perspective may be different because I finally did find my love- and he is proud and very supportive of what I do, but loves ME more. My professional success makes him happy, not threatened. And it makes me even more thankful that I have someone by my side to share the blessings of this life, as well as eternity!

ricklt said...

10:21 AM
on Mar 10, 2012

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She really answered her own question. She's still mid 30s and single, right, ......and the odds are decreasing every day. And she's approaching the danger zone for having children with birth defects. She should ask why. The answer is that most successful, professional women want a successful, professional husband, and aren't willing to settle for someone less successful or educated than themselves. I saw this firsthand in the Church in Las Vegas 25 years ago where in one area, there were 7 single women for every single man. Their main complaint was that the men didn't have enough education or income. Most of the women were professionals.....HR directors, pharmacists, nurses, teachers with masters degrees, etc. I asked one if they weren't willing to marry a man with less income and education, and help him come along to their level. I was met with an emphatic NO. So, ladies, how many successful, professional men 35+, who are single, and in the Church, do you really think are out there. The ratio must be AT LEAST 7:1. Think about it. I'm not saying "don't be successful". I'm saying "look for a good man, regardless of status in life, or income".

ricklt said...

10:23 AM
on Mar 10, 2012

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Oh, BTW, why don't you all ask Sheri Dew that question? All the priesthood she comes in contact with every day.....and still single at what? 55? 60?

some_guys_view said...

02:43 PM
on Mar 10, 2012

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It is true that for many men, it is difficult to date a girl who is more successful then them. Specialists tell us that a guy’s number one need in a relationship is to feel successful in that relationship. He needs to feel validated that he is protecting, providing, and caring for his partner. Removing that role for him is akin to removing a girls need to feel safe in a relationship. Keep in mind the reverse side of your corporate success coin. As you become more successful, the men around you will begin to seem "unsuccessful." You may begin to wonder, "what's his problem? Why doesn't he have his life and career together?" More and more potential suitors begin to fall far below your recently raised measuring stick of success. Deep down, you hope to find a guy on your same level of success or even higher.

some_guys_view said...

02:53 PM
on Mar 10, 2012

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Ironically, you probably beat out several guys for your promotion. And why shouldn't you? You work harder, your smarter, and more qualified. Based on a 2011 study, you've probably deserved the promotion for quite a while and put in many more hours than your male counterparts. I'm not suggesting you hold yourself back from your potential. I'm just saying this may be one of those "time management" indicators of priorities. Because you have the ability to excel in a variety of areas, be careful of choices that lead to a lot of overtime. Also beware of the trap of starting to define yourself by your career. You probably already know this, but I feel all of us need reminders in our modern world.

some_guys_view said...

02:54 PM
on Mar 10, 2012

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Ok, sorry last comment. Because women are bright, beautiful, and intelligent it is no surprise that they now make up over 50% of the U.S. labor force. This means that the same numbers of U.S. men now compete for half as many jobs. The irony is that, the very same women who beat them out for “success” dismiss modern men as dating options because they lack “success”.

some_guys_view said...

02:57 PM
on Mar 10, 2012

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I love what kimberlina said.

jlyn_81 said...

11:41 PM
on Mar 10, 2012

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I remember reading that statistic in a class once, but I think that most people are interpreting the data backwards. I don't think that professional success prevents a woman from getting married. Instead, I believe that the lack of marriage provides a woman with more opportunity to achieve things outside of raising a family. The longer a woman goes unmarried, the more success she has time to gain. I'm 30 with a master's degree and still searching for the man who makes my heart sing. I'm grateful for my education, but had I found "that guy" a decade ago, I'm quite sure that I would have slowed down school to have a family. I wish with all of my heart that I could be "Mommy" right now, but since I don't have diapers to distract me, I get to keep on climbing the ladder.

grannyshrink said...

09:31 AM
on Mar 12, 2012

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I was widowed at midlife and returned to school to earn a PhD. When I began dating I met many men who immediately lost interest in me when they learned I had a PhD. I also met men who were only interested in my appearance and cared little for my mind or spirit. I finally met a wonderful man with a PhD in the same field. He loved me as a whole person - including my mind. He appreciated that I had read Hugh Nibley's works and loved reading commentaries on the scriptures. We could share discussions of shared academic interests and had a great time hiking together. We have shared 22 years of happy marriage as true partners. President Hinkley challenged the young men to "step up to the plate" and get as much education as women were getting. A well educated man is usually more at ease with a well educated woman and they can enjoy more of a shared partnership.

some_guys_view said...

04:39 PM
on Mar 13, 2012

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I appreciate both comments by jlyn_81 and grannyshrink and in many ways we agree (especially on education). Please understand, I am not referring to education in my statistics. I was specifically talking about the business world. The academic world and the corporate world are two very different places. I was just trying to say that there are several ladders ,aside from the corporate one, which can be climbed. There are ladders of service, academics, talent development, travel, and more. A cautionary comment regarding a career is applicable for both men and women. The only difference I see is that if you try and make a cautionary comment to a woman, you get an entire article of how the advice was misguided. This is then followed up by an entire list of comments of how the advice was uninformed, unwanted, and unintelligent. Is it totally impossible for an LDS girl to get carried away in her career? No, I would say it can and has happened. I'm not even saying that this applies to the author. I'm just saying that if a comment strikes a chord, than it may merit some honest self introspection rather than dismissing it out of hat.

jpal said...

01:12 PM
on Mar 16, 2012

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My situation is the flip side of this. How about an article on this subject? I am an older single guy (with grandkids) looking for an empty-nester with whom to spend the rest of eternity. I have had the same occupation for 30 years or more. I enjoy it and some of the unique benefits of it, but it does not pay super well. And as a tradesman, I did not need a college degree to do well in the field. Most women I meet through singles groups and websites, make more money than I do. I find more often than not they are looking for a man that makes more than they do, and/or has more education. I would welcome a lady that is successful or even able to help contribute a bit to the household expenses and build up a greater joint retirement fund. And just because I do not have a PhD doesn't mean I have not been schooled. I have plenty of college credits and the skills to do other things. I just don't have the desire, or courage for that matter, to jump occupations. It goes both ways, honey.

jpal said...

01:22 PM
on Mar 16, 2012

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I'm glad I did not read all of the comments before posting my prior one, or I'd not have left it. "ricklt" nailed it head on.

richchipper said...

09:31 PM
on Mar 19, 2012

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I learned a great lesson teaching a few months ago. If you hear something that offends you, pray about it. If it is something that the spirit tells you that you should change, change it. Otherwise, blow it off. All that matters is what Heavenly Father thinks. I'm successful, ummarried, and in my 40's. I would struggle with anyone - male or female who wanted me to be "less successful" spiritually, financially, or spiritually than I am. I'm surprised at how many people support the statement. If the guy told her to "be careful" about gaining weight or being a scriptorian, this would be different discussion. The Lord gave us all talents and abilities for our good. Use yours for whatever God wants you to do with them!

lemonysnick said...

07:14 AM
on Mar 21, 2012

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Single women are counseled to live their lives as successfully as possible. Single sisters are encouraged to further their educations whenever possible and to enrich their lives by developing talents and gaining further knowledge. Also single sisters can volunteer and serve their communities and wards. I was a single sister until aged 43 and am appalled by this archaic attitudes. What are single sisters to do until or if they meet their eternal companion? Apparently a single sister can not win she is seen as sad if she quietly lives her life or a threat if she is ambitious by trying to further her career or education.
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